The Ramsey Show - App - When You're Debt-Free, You Don't Feel Trapped! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 8, 2021

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Thank you very much. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW. Hasn't the status symbol been chosen? I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality. Host of the Ken Coleman Show is my co-host today.

Tomorrow is book launch day for Ken. His brand new book, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love, is in bookstores available tomorrow be shipped tomorrow to those of you that have pre-purchased it speaking of which if you pre-order by midnight tonight you will spend twenty dollars for the book and get a hundred dollars plus worth of goodies uh added in included in the process and um man pretty incredible you're going to get resume templates guides a video course the audio book the e-book all of it included uh all for just purchasing the $20 book why because pre-orders matter towards the bestseller list and we bribe

you into pre-ordering because you're going to get the book anyway you might as well get all the goodies so go ahead and order it right now at ramseysolutions.com while you have the chance last day to do that tomorrow is launch day uh lots of media and stuff happening this week for you you're going to be really busy yeah we're excited we're getting the word out and uh it's uh it's it we would have never known that the scenario that we sit in now, this great resignation, people considering moving, coming out of the pandemic, moving more than they've ever moved before in their work because they know that there's more there. They want a bigger paycheck, but they also want to do work that has more values attached to it. So it's a very exciting time to see what's going to happen as the world shifts. Certainly, the American workforce is shifting tremendously. And so we're excited about it, going to be talking about it anywhere we can possibly talk about it.

Yeah. So if you're one of those 55% or so thinking about changing jobs, listen, you don't want to just change jobs. You don't want to go from the frying pan to the fire. More money and I hate my job in a toxic environment. Yeah. You need to be careful what you wish for right and so from paycheck to purpose making as much or more money than you make now and get meaning yeah this is the goal you don't have to take a 50 pay cut to be a happy camper no matter of fact that's not gonna make you a happy camper money doesn't make

you happy that's not the point but the point is you need to get after this so hey paycheck to purpose at ramsey solutions.com get it while you can today with all the goodies attached daniel's gonna start off this hour in knoxville hi daniel how are you hi dave hi ken thanks for taking my call i I'm doing well. Great. How can we help? So I have a baby step four question for y'all. So in order to maintain that 25% ratio across fund categories in my IRA, I feel like I'm only ever thinking money into the international fund. The basis in that fund is much higher than the others, and it's growing, right?

So every time I deposit money, it's always into that international fund because it's formed not as well as the rest is that still the correct way to invest or am i interpreting y'all's advice incorrectly way to go you're really paying attention the international category of the four categories sucks i mean it's bad it's ugly and so you notice that that's a good thing and what you're trying to do is rebalance your portfolio with your monthly contributions that's right i would not do that i'm fine if a category sucking if it gets a little bit out of balance because i'm going to end up with less in a sucky category. Okay.

Until it comes roaring back, and then when it comes roaring back. I got so pissed off about this international category underperforming because I've given the same information, the same, and I personally invest that way. My personal 401K is like we're talking about. It's 25% into each category, period. And I don't go back and rebalance. Some people go back and rebalance every year or two. If you want to, that's fine.

It's not the end of the world. But you're not going to usually see a huge change on your results if you do. Now, what I did do, Daniel, just as a side note, because you noticed something that a lot of people haven't really brought up, is that I considered maybe we need to change our advice because that category is so bad maybe we just need to go third third third and drop the international because for it's like a 20 year run of suck i mean it's it's bad and so what i did though i went back with my elp or my smart master pro and i had him run a whole bunch of scenarios and i told him what i was thinking about i said not only am i thinking about changing mine i'm thinking about changing

because i'm not going to change mine and not tell y'all okay i think the market's moved i think this international category is bad i was ready to go there and we ran the scenarios out 14 different ways and they found all kinds of anomalies and all kinds of things in the marketplace because i always look back 30 40 years i don't look back just three years or even 15 years right i want to look back i want to see how this market moves how it reacts and they said okay over 40 years here's what it would look like if you had the international in your mix at 25 going in no rebalancing um back to your original question and here's what it would look like if you didn't have the international and even though the international sucked it has offset the other times that the domestic market is turned down it's shot up because it runs inverse of the

other markets usually uh enough times that i actually end up with more money with the sucky category in there, which is weird. So I left it in my portfolio, and I did not change my recommendations after running out actual hypotheticals, they're called in that world, and running it out that way. But yeah, I would not recommend to do what you're doing. It's not the end of the world if you do, but I think you're working too hard to get a lame horse to run. And so throwing that extra money on that international. So I just put 25% on everything. And if you want to rebalance or move some around a little bit, if it gets way out of whack, that'd be fine.

But I think over a long period of time, the thing will probably pretty naturally rebalance or get close to it. Long period being 20, 30 years, not two years. So that's the thing will probably pretty naturally rebalance or get close to it. Long period being 20, 30 years, not two years. So that's the thing. I have never done what you're doing. I've always done 25% each, period, a fourth each. I've not done it, not rebalanced with the contribution rate in order to get it to catch up. If you do that, you're probably going to be okay,

but I think you'll make more money the way i'm talking about than the way you're doing it just and i think mathematically that's the way it's going to work if if when you say to him okay if you do that it's fine i don't think you're going to win and you explain why but if someone was going to do that what would that allocation look like instead of 25 well what he's doing is he's putting more than 25 into the international because it's dipping to try to gas to try to catch it try to have it catch up get the balance to catch up because he's trying to get his balances to be 25 each so it just depends on how long you've been doing it and how far in the hole that account is i mean you could put 90

into the international and for it to catch up if you had to. Got it. But, again, I'm not going that route. Exactly. I'm just going to keep plugging along here. Here's the interesting thing. The fact that you're looking at this and you're paying attention and you're using good critical thinking skills and you're constantly investing and you're constantly investing and you're constantly investing,

that's what we found in all the data that causes people to win more than the technicalities. The technicalities don't end up mattering as much as paying attention and continuing. Paying attention and continuing. That's what we found with all the data on the millionaires. You know, I heard a sad and touching story recently. Zander Insurance has set up a scholarship for children whose parents died without life insurance. Last year, they gave away over $165,000 to help kids avoid debt and go to college to pursue their dreams. It's touching, but also sad since it's a situation that occurs all over the country

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Aaron is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Aaron. Welcome to the, North Carolina. Hi, Aaron. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, David. How are you all today? Great. How can we help? Yeah, so my question is I could apply for a position within my company that I'm working at now,

but I'm not sure if that's the best idea for me. I'm hoping that y'all could, as unbiased, could help me determine that. To give you a little bit of background, I've been at this company for almost five years, and I was promised growth opportunities whenever I was hired. Unfortunately, that seems to be a lie. The growth track that I thought I was on

doesn't appear to be a viable. The growth track that I thought I was on doesn't appear to be a viable track for a growing. So I was wondering what Ken and you might say about that. Okay. So in your honest opinion, have you been able to do everything that you feel like you could do to be the best that you can be and the contribution you've made over that five years and you still feel like no track for growth, no opportunities have come your way? Yes and no. There's definitely the potential where I could apply for this new position and it would be the growth opportunity that I would want. However, I'm being told that the work that I've been doing over the last several years do not qualify me for this position as I was originally led to believe.

Well, whether you were led to believe that or not, the reality is they're telling you that the work you're doing now hasn't qualified you for this other position. So it doesn't seem like that's an absolute possibility. So I think going after something like that where they've told you, your leadership has told you you're not qualified, it's like me trying to go outside and dunk a basketball tonight on a 10-foot rim. It's just not going to happen.

And so it feels like to me we've got to start to look elsewhere. Because he's short, by the way, just to let you know. And can't jump. I've got the double hurdle there. So I understand the want to, but the leadership has said you're not qualified for it and i think you're setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment that's unnecessary when i think it might be time for you to look elsewhere and i think really it's about getting clear this is aaron let me ask you this okay so if i understand you right you're coming in you came into this job and you were

told if you do x y and z that you'll be able to move on to this type of a position now you've done x y and z and now they're coming back and saying that's no not true what we told you was wrong uh or what you understood was wrong that you didn't do x y and z so or even if you do x y and z you're not qualified is that what you're telling me because you've pretty much the Pretty much. The way you've structured your sentences two times, two different times in this conversation, it sounded like you think you work for liars. Well, I will say I definitely have a new manager, and I think that this new manager wants me to apply for this new position.

However, I feel like I have thought. If there's no chance of getting it, why does your new manager want you to apply for it? That's my thing is I don't understand the thought process behind my managers, and I've tried to get some clarification, and I'm still uncertain. Coworkers are saying you should just apply, just apply, because there's no harm in it, and I understand that. But at the same time, it's causing me more frustration and emotional and mental harm than it is doing me good trying to fight for

something that i can't get right well then they'll do it and you also have some concerns i'm so confused i don't know why you can't get it your manager told you to apply for it he's not going to tell you to apply for something you can't get i honestly i can't tell you why dave it's been a it's i've been asking for cross training opportunities to get a position like this for at least three out of the four to five years that i've been here so why would your manager tell you to apply for something that you have zero chance of getting that's not why they haven't told me specifically to apply for it but i i just get the sense that they would like for me to. Okay, but do you have a sense that they think you're not qualified, or do they tell you you're not qualified?

There's two positions available. One is a lower-level position than the actual position that I'm looking for. And that position, both are currently available. I think she would like for me to apply for the lower position, but she has told me that I'm not eligible, that I'm not qualified for the higher position. All right, but do you even want the higher position? Let's just remove all this for a second, all this confusion back and forth. Do you even want the position?

If you were qualified, would you be jumping for it? Yeah, actually, whenever I begin to apply for the position that I currently have, I originally applied for that position, and they asked for me to apply for the position that I currently have. Okay. So I've been asking for that position ever since I've been there. Oh, I get it. I think there's a pattern here.

Do you feel that you're qualified on paper for this role? I think so. Well, no, no, no. I don't want to think so. I mean, like, do you know, if you look at this position out in the marketplace... Like, if you went somewhere else, you could make a case when you're being interviewed that you should be able to get this job done. So you feel you're qualified? I believe so. Okay. I think it's time to start looking today. Let's start looking. Let's test the market.

Let's find out. Let's test the market. Let's find out. There's a gap here between you feel like, well, Dave's right. I feel like you feel like they're dishonest. We're not saying you're wrong. We're just saying it's all over you. You feel like they've been dishonest with you. They're not giving you an opportunity. We've got previous management saying you're not qualified.

New person comes in. I think she wants it. There's too much of this stuff going on. Getting your dream job with dishonest people is not your dream job yeah that's my thought process as well dude yeah so you move on yeah if that's if that's that's why i was asking where your head was on that issue because you know if you feel like that because they're going to cut your knees out from under you if they're going to cut you know if that's who they are uh if that's if that's the real conclusion

that you've come to now you beat around the bush in this conversation you've not been clear with us we've had to pull this out of you so keep in mind i mean i don't know whether you're trying to be nice or what you're trying to do but you know bottom line is the issue here is you don't trust your leadership and that means it's time to move. Listen, folks, when you feel there's a lid on you, whether you know all the reasons or not, start looking elsewhere, because it's only a matter of time before you become bitter, and then this thing can turn toxic on your end, and you end up burning a bridge and hurting your future because you're just sitting around kind of eeyoreing. You've got to move on, and I think I'd start looking today. Again, this is such a great time to look.

And this is where we find out, by the way, if we are qualified. Yeah, if you go out there and can't get the job, then maybe they were right. That's right. They weren't dishonest. They were just being honest. They were telling you the truth. You're not qualified. We've got to find the common denominator in this situation.

Yeah. Is it him? That'll do it. Or is it leadership? Go do some interviews. If you don't get the job, then you'll know. That's what's going on. So at least hypothetically, you'll know. in this situation yeah is it him that'll do it or is it leadership go do some interviews if you don't get the job then you'll know that's what's going on so at least hypothetically you'll know yeah so um yeah the other thing you can do is have some very clear precise language not like

you used with us uh discussions with some leaders in the organization and go listen i really feel like this is what i was promised i feel like i've lived up to it so i'm really struggling with why i shouldn't get this position can you show me what i need to do to be able to follow through on what i thought we were doing and that's a very clear concise set of. And you don't have to accuse somebody of lying to do that. You can just challenge out the situation and say, I need to know why it is that after five years and having done these things that I'm not able to do the thing that I thought that I signed up for to get to. See, this is very important, folks. Make sure you hear what Dave said.

Most weak leaders they're just weak i mean that doesn't mean they're bad people but weak leaders don't communicate clearly they're afraid of confrontation so by being honest like dave just described and that kind of very clear very clear put the ball in their court and if you give them a clear question and they don't give you clear back there's your answer this is weak leadership they're never going to tell me what i need to hear because we need to hear it but it takes us being honest what kind of value do i need to add to be qualified yes and when i do that then what you're saying is then i get the role right and if if they look at you and go one of the things you're gonna have to to learn is clear communication. Yeah, that might be. That could be the comeback, you know.

So it's a possibility. So that's the kind of stuff. But there's nothing wrong with testing the waters and going and interviewing, especially if you've lost faith in the integrity of the organization. That's really when it's time to move on. This is the Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Mike and Christy are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great, Dave. How about you?

Good to have you. Where do you guys live? At Menville, Tennessee. Oh, just over the hill. Just over the hill. Well, thanks for joining us here, guys. Great. And how much debt have you all paid off? $56,984 in the past 18 months. Wow, that was quick. And your range of income during that time?

$100,000 between the two. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a toolmaker in a plastic injection company. She's a kindergarten teacher. I'm a kindergarten teacher at Eastside Elementary. All right. Fun.

Very fun. So what kind of debt was your $57,000? Oh, a lot of fun. Credit cards, truck, Jeep, house. Kind of normal? Just normal. Oh, you paid off your house? Yes.

In the $57,000? Well, yes. Wow. Wow. Okay, very cool. Looking at weird people. Yeah, that's us. Okay, so you had normal debt.

Yes. And have been going along. How long have y'all been married? 24 years. Okay. And you look up 18 months How long have y'all been married? 24 years. Okay. And you look up 18 months ago and decide to do this crazy Ramsey stuff. What happened? Well, actually, my mother had given me a book in 92 when I got my first home.

And she's always preached to me about saving and working and not being in debt and paying for cash for things. And, of course, I ignored all of it and had a lot of fun and running up credit card bills, about $10,000 in that. You felt like you didn't have a way out. You feel trapped. You feel smothered. But then you started seeing progress. And then 18 months ago, we decided that I'm tired of this and let's get out of it.

We started following your baby steps. I was marking off each step. We started with the lowest and kept marking them off. Just visually seeing that just made a difference for us. Then we printed off your little bricks on the house where you mark off the bricks. Of course, that helped us keep going. We have two children in college, too. And then we printed off your little bricks on the house where you mark off the bricks when you go in. And, of course, that helped us keep going. And we have two children in college, too.

So we did all of this while we're paying for college, too. And two others over here. Wow. Where are they in college? One is at UTC and one is at Tennessee Tech. And, thankfully, they did the community college thing for two years. And both affordable schools that they're in, four-year schools. Yes.

So you're not, you can go crazy on that. So that's good. The scholarships helped a lot. So 1992, your mother gave you one of my books? Yes. We have it with us. The little blue one? Yeah.

It has to be, because that's the first year a book came out. I said, that's the one I won't sign. I want the one Mom gave me. That thing's a classic. I mean, 92 is the first year that it came out. I saw those out of the trunk of my car, just like that car over there. See, that's vintage. That's vintage.

I like that. I'm a slow reader. Yeah, that or slow on the uptick. Just took 30 years to get around to it. That's all. Okay, so what happened 18 months ago that was the wake-up call that made you get so intense? Well, I was really pushing it, I'll be honest, and I just wanted him to get on board with me. And we would just be very intentional about our spending.

And I kind of started doing the minimalist thing where less is more. And that helped out a whole lot. And it wasn't easy because I had a bump in the road. I had a stage one breast cancer diagnosis last year in August. So that kind of set us back a little bit, but I went through the radiation treatments, and we just kept persevering, and we're here now. And you're cancer-free now. Cancer-free now.

It's been a year that free cancer free what a year it was like for us the budget working on the budget that was probably the hardest part for me because when you put it on paper and you see i mean there was actually a few years back when the kids were just born uh not just the twins but no one and katie i was working she was at home with the kids and it's a lot of stress and you're asking for overtime and you're just trying to break even because at 40 hours there was a time that you know 94 a week i was in the hole at 40 hours a week and that's a lot of stress my dad and the marriage and the home. And it just builds on you. And as the past 18 months, you see that light at the end of that tunnel.

One gets paid off. You get the credit card paid off. You get the trip paid off. You get the truck paid off. And it just starts snowballing just like you teach. And you see that hope. And I didn't know how much stress I really had because I'd been there for so long. And once you start getting to the end of it, it's like, man, what can I do?

I mean, it's like I look at everything totally different now. What can I do instead of what I can't do? It's like I told my wife, instead of buying on time, I want to my time now i don't i don't want i don't want to just struggle and i like it and we want to give god all the glory because and this none of this would be possible without him we we definitely put him first in our lives and we're here now because of him yeah i mean we've been blessed with with with health and things that bumps come along but it's still we still worked out and uh you're getting to work through a pandemic nothing you know i didn't have to worry about any of that it could still work and still go and still do and

i mean it's just been a blessing i mean it's pretty cool so christy i got to go back in the story because i'm i think i'm missing something. And I want to make sure I'm catching on what's happening. Okay, so we go along. And about 18 months ago, you somehow connected to us fresh. I had been listening to you for a while. Oh, you had been listening for a while. Yes, for several years. You just kind of turned up the old heat a little bit in your sweet little way.

Yes, and I was listening to your daughter, too. Okay. You know. Okay, so you just kept turning it up a little bit in your sweet little way yes and i was listening to your daughter too and um okay you know okay so you just kept turning it up a little bit because we did try this several years back yes and um it just i gave up yeah we weren't on board and we weren't intentional with it so we just became intentional and this paid off you It just felt like it. This woman is a force of nature, you realize. She is. She is. I pity the kindergartner that crosses her. Look at Mike.

He's going through active recovery right there. Yeah, it's the truth. That is the truth. Yeah, I can see it. Hey, Mike, I do want to ask you, because you shared some really gut-wrenching stuff there that I think a lot of people feel. Very powerful.

All right, what's it like on the other side? And I mean, I want you to describe. Now that you're free. I want you to describe because you said you didn't know what it felt like because you'd had it so long. So now on the other side, what is the positive emotional and physical piece that you have? You're not trapped. I mean, and what I mean by that is, I mean, I love my job. I mean, I've been a toolmaker all my life, my working life.

And, you know, I've been there since 92, you know, coming up on 30 years. But you feel, I don't owe anybody anything. You know, I can give. We have some very dear friends, you know, lost a daughter to cancer during all this, you know, almost, well, not hardly a year ago. But I want to help But I want to help. I want to help. If it's just giving something to St. Jude or if it's just doing, I just want to help.

And those opportunities, you see somebody that's alone and eating at a restaurant. I'm not as secret as I guess now, to i want to buy their lunch and just let them not know and just go just the little things you know nothing big but just you can just do those things and not worry you can be a little you're a little kinder you're a little nicer it's a little sweeter at home i mean because i mean the family's growing and and we're just kind of off and running you want to you can step and. And, you know, I had COVID in August, and I missed a month of work. But guess what? There was a savings, and I didn't have to worry about it.

And it's just those types of things that you see it working. That's great. And it's – And you brought two of your daughters with you. What are their names? Kristen and Kerrigan. Okay. And they're the twins, isn't it?

They're the twins. Okay. How old are they? 15. All right. 15. So here comes some more college. Yes and Kerrigan. Okay. And they're the twins, isn't it? They're the twins. Okay. How old are they? 15. All right. 15. So here comes some more college. Yes.

I like it. Good. But now we're ready. We're ready. We're ready. Game on. We're ready. I'm so proud of y'all.

Congratulations. Thank you. Very well done. What's this house worth you paid off? Probably about $350. Awesome. On our way to being Baby Steps Millionaires then. That'd be nice. Well, you're right there. You're going to be there befores millionaires then. That'd be nice.

Well, you're right there. You're going to be there before you know it. Well done, you guys. We've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you, a copy of Total Money Makeover. Maybe you can give it away to somebody and they'll read it before 1992. Yes, we hope to help others, definitely. I love it. All right, count it down, gang.

$57,000 paid off in 18 months, making $100 a year. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. That's gold right there, man. Yeah. That is gold.

There was so much in that. So much going on. That's fun. Mike might get in trouble for getting ahead of the count there. He might. He might. You never know. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 3, 13 and 14.

One thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Serena Williams said, Don't let anyone work harder than you do. That's important right there. Guys, it's almost time for Christmas. It's going to sneak up on you, but for some of you, what should be a time of joy, tradition, togetherness?

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Kevin is in Orlando. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. 233-789. Kevin is in Orlando. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So my wife and I, we have a baby on the way. We just purchased a house together. I'm trying to decide whether my previous house, which I had paid off, whether I should throw all of that at my mortgage or invest that in the market in some kind of safe conservative mutual fund. Well, you're debt-free other than the homes. We have a car payment, but just going to pay that off once we get the new money from the house. Okay, so the original house you're talking about is sold or is going to be sold.

And how much are you going to receive from it? About $550,000. $550,000 clear? Yes, sir. Okay. And how much do you owe on your car? Just under $60,000. And what do you owe in your car um just under 60,000 and what do you owe on your home uh 800,000 and what's your household income uh just about 400,000 a year wow way to go dude

what do you guys do for a living thank you um we're both in health care. Okay. Congratulations. Very well done. Great careers. Okay. Well, what we have found is that the first $1 to $5 million of net worth that people get is typically from a paid-for house and their retirement accounts in 401Ks, 403Bs, IRAs. Our baby step number one is save $1,000. You've obviously done that. Two is to be debt-free, everything but the house.

We've got a plan to pay off the $60,000 car, which is going to leave us $490,000 with an $800,000 mortgage. Baby step three is saving three to six months of expenses. How much non-retirement saving and investing do you currently have uh just under 900 000 non-retirement yes mutual or sorry um money market account and savings okay uh what i would do if i woke up in your shoes is I would pay off my house 100%. Okay. Now you're sitting there with a paid-for house, a $400,000 income.

You have an emergency fund set aside of three to six months of expenses, and now there's nothing left to do but build wealth and be outrageously generous. But no house payment is going to get you there. And here's what you're going to find. Okay. But no house payment is going to get you there. And here's what you're going to find. Okay, you're in a high-stress environment that is emotionally and intellectually fatiguing. Agreed? Correct. You're going to feel something that you don't anticipate, that your intellect doesn't tell you you're going to feel.

When you pay off this house, you're going to feel a release, a sense of peace. Because it's like having a backache, and you've had it so long you don't even realize it's there and you don't think about it but when it's gone you're like wow i just got set free that's pretty incredible so um that's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna pay off that house that's the way i have lived personally and once i got there it was fairly easy to become very very wealthy with that kind of income and not a payment in the world. Plus, you don't have a care in the world in the middle of weirdness. And, dude, you've experienced some weirdness in health care in the last 24 months.

Agreed? Yes, sir. Yeah. And so one less thing, you know, I have to. I've had all kinds of stress around the business and trying to keep this thousand people employed and revenues going up, revenues going down, entire areas of revenue disappearing and trying to run this thing. But I never had the stress of worrying about a foreclosure. I never had the stress of worrying about if I personally was going to be left out in the cold because it was all paid for. There's a release there.

The borrower is slave to the lender. And when you're 100% debt free, there's a freedom that's going to cause you to prosper yet even more. Changes your decision-making paradigm. It really does. And you're right. At this stage where they are at, this is the right move. It sets them up for their future. Serious, serious good position you've gotten yourself into. Well done. Catherine's in London. Hi, Catherine. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Hi, Ken. Thank you very much for taking my call. This is my first time calling in, so I'm thrilled to have got through. Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help? Okay, so my question, so essentially I'm in a job that I don't love,

but I have the equivalent of about $27,000 worth of debt that I need to pay off. My job is well paid. I make about $98,000 equivalent before tax. But I want out. But then I've got this debt that I need to pay. I have an eight-year-old son. He's in private school that I'm paying for. And my question essentially is,

how do I plan an exit from a job that I don't love? Yeah. Well, do you... When I'm not respect. Okay. Well, a couple of things. Don't walk into this with the assumption that if you change jobs that you have to take a big pay cut. And we're not going to jump off of a cliff here.

We don't want to see any interruption in income. So, Catherine, if there's no interruption in income and you can step into something else that is much more enjoyable, that doesn't have all the factors at play that's going on with what's going on now, you wouldn't even be calling us. You'd be like, okay. And so let's start with the assumption that we're not going to have an interruption in income. Okay. That's first. But the question is, do you know what you would love to do? Or is there a job that you are very intrigued by, a career path that you've always wanted to pursue? To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm 45, and I kind of feel like I work in health care, and I've worked in health care for 25 years. Okay. And I have been looking at other roles

that are within my field, but I quite, you know, it's quite a sliding industry at the moment, but every role that I come across, I just, I don't even bother to read the whole job spec, but I'm just not interested. And I just, I don't know if it's because, you know, if it's a combination of part of the reason why I don't love my job.

Okay. All right. So let me— Because of the members experiencing or the pandemic, I kind of feel like I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. Well, you have to listen to that, but here's what I want you to do. You've got some debt. You make really good money, and you've got some debt that you can pay off pretty quickly if you stay focused. So for right now, Catherine, I want you to stay in this job. I know you don't love it. I know you want out, but let's change our attitude.

The attitude is, hey, I'm grateful for this job because it's taking care of me, my 8-year-old son, and it's allowing me to pay off debt, and I'm going to stay put until I've got something to step into. So that's our focus. So here's what I want to do. Kelly, let's give Catherine a link to the Get Clear Career Assessment that we sell here, Ramsey Solutions, KenColeman.com. Would you take the assessment? It's going to point out a whole lot to you that you've never seen before.

And then let's come up with a clear path. Hang on, we're going to give you the brand new From Paycheck to Purpose because it's the field guide to the mountain that the assessment will point out. Both of these tools, Catherine, will show you the direction that you need to go. Walk through it stage by stage. Don't interrupt your income and you're going to be fine. That puts us, Howard, the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life?

Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.