The Ramsey Show - App - When You're in Your Career Sweet Spot, People Will Notice (Hour 2)

Episode Date: September 9, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Devin is in Washington, kicking off this hour.

Hi, Devin, how are you? Hi. So my question is, my wife and I, we've been saving for a few years to buy our first home. We live in Seattle, which is very expensive. And we saved up a good down payment. We were ready to buy a home. And we found out that because we don't have credit history, we don't qualify for a jumbo loan, which would be required in our area. And so we were wondering if there were other options besides waiting for a couple of years to purchase our first home. You have zero credit history.

Yeah. So your credit score is zero. Yep. How long have you been on your job? I've been there for about eight years. Okay. You paid your landlord earlier on time? Yep. And you can prove that, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Call Churchill Mortgage. They know how to write a mortgage without a credit score, including a jumbo loan. They're the ones who told us we don't qualify for a jumbo loan twice. We've talked to two people there. So what size is qualifying you?

What size loan is this? So we're looking to purchase a house between $900 and $950. We have about $250 saved, and we make about $300,000. And so they told us the maximum we can qualify for is $484,000. So we'd still need to save for about another year to two years before we could save up about another $150,000 to $250,000. Now that, or you can buy and then move three years from now. You could buy a different house than you're wanting to buy.

Yeah. That fits within these guidelines. And I was not, I'm not aware. I'm going to have to check into this because I'm about to learn something, I think, which happens to me almost every day. But I was not aware that a jumbo loan required would not allow manual underwriting, and I need to double-check that. I'm a little bit afraid you got some bad info, but I may have some bad info,

so I want to look into that a little bit. But if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to do one of two things. Either your plan, sit there and save for a little more, or I'm going to go ahead and buy now a house that fits within those parameters, within your down payment plus 484, which is not a bad house. It might be a little further out than you want, or it might be a little less house than you want, one of the two. And then I'm going to suffer in there for two or three years while I save some money.

Meanwhile, that house is going up in value too. Oh, meanwhile, by just the sheer fact you have a mortgage, you will now have a credit score. So, um, can't keep it from happening because you have an account that is open. So all of these things that solve themselves. And meanwhile, you're a homeowner. So that's probably my first choice. If all of this information is correct and I'll double check because I'm not i'm not ready to smack my fist down the table and say that's wrong uh it doesn't sound right but i need to double check it so hey thanks for the call karen is with us karen is in california hi

karen how are you i'm doing great how are you doing better than i deserve what What's up? Hey, okay, so my husband had to medically retire at 57. He's turning 60 years old this year, and he had the 401k account, and because he's not able to put any more money in it, he was looking at doing an annuity, and we had heard that you were no on that no what should he do to keep his that money safe well there's two kinds of safe uh they're safe that doesn't earn any money and there's zero chance of losing money and then you lose money because the cost of living goes up faster than your account goes up so that's unsafe while it's being safe. Another type of safe is going to an account that's been there for decades into a good mutual fund that has a track record of outpacing inflation, but that does go up and down in value, and there's not a technical guarantee on it.

Do you own a home? Yeah, we don't have any debt whatsoever. So you don't have a guarantee on your home? What do you mean? Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, we own our home. Yeah, but there's no guarantee on what the home's value is going to do. Correct.

And yet you lose no sleep whatsoever on what the value of the home is going to do because, generally speaking, over a decade or two house prices go up right same thing's true of mutual funds if you select a decent one just like you buy a house in a decent neighborhood same thing so i would go to a smart vestor pro click on dave ramsey click smart vestor put in your info it'll drop down a list of the smart vestor pros in your area i'm not in the business, but these are people that we have vetted and that we feel very comfortable with. They have the heart of a teacher, and they'll help you select some mutual funds to roll his 401k over into an IRA. So a 401k over into an IRA, and that's going to be your plan.

So in good mutual funds. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225. One of the things we've learned around here is that you guys have a lot of opinions. And we're glad for that. We value your input on the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm kind of curious what you think about some of the things we do, as a matter of fact.

We know a lot about it based on how long you stick around on YouTube and what things you watch and all those kinds of things. We know that type of stuff happens all the time. So that's entirely possible. So today we launched a brand-new survey, and we want your feedback. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash survey. It'll only take a few minutes, and there's a $100 Amazon gift card that's up for grabs. You just text the word survey to 33789.

So, again, we're doing a survey on The Dave Ramsey Show. Doesn't cost a thing. No purchase is necessary. No salesman will call. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash survey fill it out if you do you'll be in the drawing for a 100 amazon gift card or if you forget all that just text the word survey to 33 789 text take out your phone text survey toVEY to 33789. Karen's on YouTube.

My daughter's getting married in 10 months. Where in the baby steps is paying for your kid's wedding? We're on baby step two. Not going to be much of a wedding. You're in debt and you're broke, and she's getting married in 10 months. My guess is you guys are probably going to stop your whole baby steps and pile up some cash as quickly as you can to pay for a little bit, help a little bit with the wedding.

And then you'll probably restart your baby steps at that point. But weddings are not a baby step. But, you know, it's going to be a very reasonable, budget-oriented, budget-friendly wedding that you're going to do. But you can do it. That's fine. And then get started again. Once the push play again on your baby steps, once the wedding comes.

Works for me. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry.

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national best-selling author of the book The Proximity Principle and host of The Ken Coleman Show. He'll be answering your career questions. Be with us here at the bottom of the book The Proximity Principle and host of The Ken Coleman Show. He'll be answering your career questions. Be with us here at the bottom of the hour. If you've got questions about career, this is your time to jump in. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Jeremy and Julie are with us.

Hey, guys. How are you? Hey, Dave. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Phoenix, Arizona. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville.

Thank you. Good to have you all the way over here. And we brought in a 100-degree day just for you. Thanks for that. It's a Phoenix kind of day, only we have the humidity to go with it, which makes it feel like 200. So, well, welcome. Good to have you guys. And all the way over here to do a debt-free scream, how much have you paid off?

$60,000. All right. Very good. And how long did this take? About 13 months. Good. And your range of income during that time? Our range of income was about $115,000 to $125,000.

Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a route sales rep for Free Delay. Okay. And I'm a supply chain and logistics manager for the Arizona National Guard. Oh, very nice. Very nice. Thank you for your service.

Thank you. Very good. Cool stuff. So what kind of debt was the $60,000? It was pretty much everything, Dave. Student loans, credit cards, family loans, car loans, KGB, I mean IRS. You guys were normal. Medical bills and collections.

Wow. So it was all falling apart, wasn't it? Yes. So what happened 13 months ago? What was your wake-up call? What changed everything? It started with me. I was on a phone call with my cousin and I was kind of

venting about my financial stress and it was pretty much lingering from my previous divorce. And he very casually mentioned like, well, just do what Dave Ramsey does and just sell everything instead of going into debt. And I was just like, I literally got off that phone call, Googled your name. Who's Dave Ramsey? Yeah, exactly. I stumbled across the Total Money Makeover, bought that book, and we were just casually dating at that time. And I just pretty much read the book in about a day or two,

and then I said, here, read this. Whoa. Game on. And then he. Yeah, so I was going out of town for annual training at the time, so I'd had some time to read this. Um, and then he, yeah, so, um, I was going out of town for annual training at the time, so I'd had some time to read it. So I, I read it. Um, and from there, my paradigm on finances, money, credit, and behaviors just shifted immediately. Um, I totally bought in the plan made sense to me. And, uh, and I realized too. And I realized too, from my previous marriage, I had accumulated a lot of debt and I was misbehaving with money. And I was living paycheck

to paycheck with no emergency fund. And I knew right then this was no way to live and this was not sustainable and we had to take action immediately. Good for you. Wow. Very cool. So how long have you guys been married? 18 months. Oh, wow. Very fun. Very fun. And 13 of those was game on. Game Wow. Very cool. So how long have you guys been married? 18 months. Oh, wow. Very fun. Very fun. And 13 of those was game on. Game on. Game on.

Okay. Got married, got plowed through the dead, and we knew that from our previous relationships with money, and we knew that we wanted to change for our future. We didn't want to have debt lingering from our past mistakes. Well, you didn't want those same habits from those two busted marriages to come into the new one. Exactly. That's a good move.

That's very, very wise. If you don't change something, you just do it again. That's right. Very much so. So very good. Good for you guys. Very, very cool. So that's like first order of business.

I mean, as soon as you get married, you just lean into this thing and work your debt snowball. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Well, I think the key, Dave, is believe that you can. Establish your why and how, because we sat down and we looked at our why, and we followed the baby steps. That was our how. We set realistic goals and timelines, because you want to get out of debt, but you have to be realistic. It doesn't matter how long or short it's going to take, as long as you're on track. As long as you're making progress.

You keep going. You keep energy as long as you can see the light. Absolutely. Become mentally and emotionally obsessed. We had butcher paper all over our living room and kitchen. Whoa. Of our debt snowball, of our plan and our phrases. So every day, every night, we looked at our plan.

We looked at the paper, every paycheck. We knew we can get rid of a debt. And I think that helped visually. I think you mentioned in your book, too, that a famous doctor had written a progressive list, marked it off line by line, put it on her fridge. And I think that really spoke to me, just having that visual. And just becoming incest emotionally to just get the day out of our life. And learn to say no.

That was a big one, just no to everything. What was the hardest thing to say no to? I think the family outings. Yeah, family outings and eating out because a lot of that involved family outings. Okay, so you got kids? I have a daughter from my previous marriage, his stepdaughter now. And she was one of our biggest inspirations too because I never learned much about handling finances growing up

and really either did Jeremy. And we wanted to change it for her. We wanted to make her future bright and change our family tree. When I looked at her when I was going through my previous divorce, I was like, I want to make changes for her. I want to make her future bright, and I don't want her to have any mistakes that I made. That's very good. Very cool. That gives you a big why, but also you've got to look at her and go, no, we're not going out to eat.

Yes. This is for you. I know you're going to love me look at her and go no we're not going out to eat yes yeah this is for you i know you're gonna love me later but right now we're not going out to eat yeah that's cool very cool good good for you guys good for you guys so who were your biggest cheerleaders i guess your cousin it's funny that you say that because he pretty much gave me that information like do what dave ramsey did and then i didn't really tell like we're not like close cousins like pretty much i called him like two years later and i hadn't talked to him in two years and i was like guess what i did and he was completely blown away wow he didn't have a clue what we were doing and i told him what happened and he was like i had that effect on you by just casually mentioning dave ram's name. And I was like, you did. And we had an hour conversation, and he was unbelievably excited for us. That's good. That's cool.

It's good to have somebody that's excited for you like that. Yeah. But other than that, we didn't have too many. You weren't out there raising the flag talking about it. You were just doing it. We had to keep our head down and just focus on the goal and just execute the game plan and not pay attention to the noise. Yeah, you have to be careful what you casually mention to your cousin.

It could go off. Well done, guys. Very well done. We're proud of you here, I can tell you that. You've got some cheerleaders here at Ramsey. Very, very well done. Great job. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you,

Everyday Millionaires, How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth and How You Can Too, and you're on your way. You're going to be everyday millionaires, aren't you? That's right. You're making $125,000 a year. You don't have any payments.

How's that feel? Liberating. Undescribable. How long has it been since either one of you were completely debt-free? Never, really. Never. I've known debt since I've been 18. Yeah of you were completely debt-free? Never, really. Never. I've known debt since I've been 18, so.

Yeah. Same. Your whole adult life. Yeah. First time you've been free. That's right. Completely free. Man, that's a different feeling, huh?

Oh, yes, it is. It's surreal. Very well done. Jeremy and Julie, Phoenix, Arizona, $60,000 paid off in 13 months, making $115,000 to $125,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

I love it! Well done, you guys. Very, very well done. A lot of wisdom in that call. A lot of things going on there, and you don't want to miss them. Number one, you probably need to mention this stuff to your cousin. That's one thing you need to learn from that call. Another thing is if you're starting with a fresh relationship,

what was it one lady called? She said she called her first husband her practice husband or something. When you're starting with the next relationship, change the things that were stressful in the one before. Deal with it. And these guys did that.

Very well done. Jeremy and Julie, very proud of you. Phoenix, Arizona, $60,000 paid off, baby. Woo-hoo! This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Hey, guys. At the Dave Ramsey Show, we really value your input. It helps us to know what's important to you so we can deliver relevant content to help you crush your money goals. We just launched a brand new survey, and we'd love your feedback.

It only takes a few minutes, and you'll be entered to win a $100 Amazon gift card. No purchase necessary. Take the survey at DaveRamsey.com slash survey or text survey to 33789. Joining me for a couple of segments, Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show, broadcast on about 40 radio stations and Sirius XM and a very popular podcast. He's also the author of the number one bestselling book, The Proximity Principle, the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love. Welcome back, Ken. Good to be here, Dave.

So you've been a little busy up in Washington, D.C., showing off. Well, it was a lot of fun. I had the opportunity to speak to the military men and women who serve the White House in the White House Communications Agency. So if you think about everything from an email to a head of state call between our president, they handle all of that. And these are great men and women who, you know, if you think about it, Dave, they helped stop world wars by making sure clear communication happens. If you think about 100 years ago, that didn't exist. Had you had to wait on a letter yeah wait for a ship to arrive and so great people of course we love the military here at ramsey solutions so that was a high honor yeah very much what did you say to him what was the talk on well we talked about the proximity principle specifically

the uh talk that i gave at our entree Summit. We talked about how when you are a high-producing man or woman in your career, you're on the ladder, but you haven't reached that full, that summit, that pinnacle, how to use the proximity principle to continue to move up. And so we talked about two key people and two key places, both from the book. And it was received very well. They've asked me to come back next spring, and we'll do something different for them wow very cool yeah for you yeah fun times i'm not shocked that they were impressed with your communication ability but amazing very yeah really great people yeah well pictures of you standing around the white house it looked a little bit political to

me i'm just i mean look like you look like you're running for office or something well i'm not uh i really really am in my sweet spot here it turns out you can influence a lot more people on the radio than you can in politics. I heard the rumor. Yeah, but it was fun. Because, you know, I used to work for the governor of Virginia. My first job right out of college was, in fact, in campaign politics. So it was fun to walk in those hallowed halls. Yeah, you got a bit of a political bug.

Oh, I'm a geek. You're being very kind. Yeah, I am being kind. But at least i got rachel cruz with me well rachel cruz is in charge of conspiracy theories you're in charge of actual political analysis and i'm in charge of watching the show but there's been at least two of you are together it's a show well that's right there's been a few times that we start talking politics around dave and he rolls his eyes and excuses himself out of the room just pull the brim of

my hat down and not lean back in the chair and take a nap that's all true that's all true let you two solve the world's problems about who's in the white house or not or whatever unbelievable i got i got stuff to do yes fortunately so do i thank you ken is with us he's willing to take your calls on careers right now we're opening up some lines for that. Your career questions about your proximity principle, about your sweet spot, about finding the career that you love. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. So, Ken, if somebody's ready for a job change they're just looking around and going it's monday

i hate mondays because i hate my job i don't like these people i don't like what i do i need out of here what's the first step yep discovery self-discovery we got to know who you know, sadly enough, Dave, many, many people walk through most of their personal and professional life not truly ever coming to a place of self-discovery. And so it's the very first step. So what do I mean? Well, let's look at the two core things that our Creator gave us, talent and passion. So think of talent like a raw chunk of clay that there's all kinds of goodness in there. And when honed like a potter does on that potter's wheel, when you craft it, you put all the right elements there, then you can turn it into a very usable tool like a cup or a bowl or a pot.

And so when we take our raw talent, we work on it, we hone it, Dave, we can turn it into a very sharp, usable skill. So every person on the planet was born with something, multiple things that they're really good at. Then we look at passion. What do I mean by passion? This is what we love to do most. We know this as humans that we were created to work. And so all of us, Dave, have something that when we're engaged in it, it gives us, I like to say, the juice. We're excited. Our heart comes alive. It skips a beat. We find time beginning to disappear on us. We look up and two hours have gone, and we've really enjoyed the task or the function. And this is the best part, that when the work is done, the results of the work give us tremendous joy. There's a connection to not just the work, but the result of the work. us tremendous joy there's a connection to not just the work but the result

of the work so that's the talent and passion so when i say self-discovery we're looking at what do we do best because what we love to do what a lot of people do is they wake up on money morning i hate my job and they just say i just need another job that's it they just look for a paycheck am i good enough to get a paycheck can i get another check somewhere else that looks like this check that's right and what you end up doing is going from one miserable place to another miserable place doing that. That's why 70% of Americans, according to Gallup, are miserable in their job. It's why Monday morning is a high rate of desperation. I've got to go in, and I have no desire, I have no connection to the work, and I'm living for the weekend.

Now, you take that life, which is a lot of Americans, 70%, and then you multiply that times 90,000 hours. That's what we know over the lifetime of an American they're going to spend on average at work. Life is way too short, Dave, and that's where the show's like desperation. Because here's what everybody longs for. The answer to this question, do I matter? The answer is yes. But many times people need to be able to, in their work life, that's where more money comes in, the ability to pay off debt. When we're doing something that we love, here's what happens. We excel at it.

And when we excel at it, then people notice and they say, hey, we want more of this lady. We want more of this man. And they give us opportunity to grow. And financial growth always comes with doing work in your sweet spot. There's a certain amount of spiritual, intellectual laziness that Earl Nightingale used to say people spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do their career. That's exactly right. And they spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do considering what they want to study at school.

It's as simple as, well, I heard accountants make money, so I'm going to be an accountant. That's right. And that's about all the thought they put into it. Well, it's really true. And here's what – I'm so glad you brought this up. Culture is doing this to us, folks. You're a victim of the culture because it's a head game, not a heart game. What Dave just described is when you think about life just in the head.

So here's what happens. Every person comes to this world and so from day one to about year three or four, we're in that toddler stage. We ask hundreds of questions a day. And so then we get into grade school, Dave, and this is when we answer the questions.

What do you want to be when you grow up? We say a taxi driver because we just saw a taxi car on the way to school. And so it's just very wonder. It's all wonder, wonderment. Certainly want to be a fireman. That's right.

Certainly want to be a policeman. Because they see that and they admire that. Superman. That's right. There's no fear there. With a kid, there's no fear. They just go, this seems exciting. This seems interesting.

And they wonder. Now watch this, Dave. Then we get into 15, 16, 17, 18 and the pressure from culture and mom and dad. It's not bad, but it's real. We got to pick a real. We've got to pick a school, we've got to pick a major, we've got to do all this. And so now all of a sudden we go from wonder to, we're no longer

wondering about what could be. It's all a fear-based approach to, I've got to get a good degree so I can get a good job. That's the head game. And here's what happens. Then they call the Ken Coleman show at 35 and 45 and 55 because they're now wanderers. They go from being wanderers.

This is how the human is. Everybody wonders about what could be and what should be. And then they become wanderers because they chased a safe major and a safe job. Never one time was the heart brought into it. Parents aren't teaching what we're teaching here at Ramsey Solutions, which is you have a role that you were created to fill. That means you're needed and you must do it. You teach us this, Dave, all the time.

We are blessed to be a blessing. What that means is that we were all created to fill a role, and it's not about our success. It's about our significance in that when we go to bed every night, even on a tough day, and we say, my work mattered. It was a tough day. It was a long day. But the results are there. It matters. I know my work matters.

I know that I matter. And I'm going to get up and get after it again the next day. That's a heart difference versus the head difference. Yep. And that's where joy comes from. Yes, sir. It's not an intellectual exercise. Joy comes in the morning, the Bible says.

Why? Because mercies are new every morning. Every morning. Ken Coleman is with us. The Ken Coleman Show. You can see why millions of people are flocking to this show. Obviously, Ken is not only on fire for this stuff. He knows his stuff.

The book is The Proximity Principle. You can listen to The Ken Coleman Show as a podcast. You can listen to it on SiriusXM. And you can listen to it on about 40 radio stations. Find all of it at thekencolemansmanShow.com or KenColeman.com. The book, Proximity Principle, the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love. You can get it anywhere fine books are sold, including DaveRamsey.com. Back with your questions about careers, 888-825-5225. Ramsey Personality, Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, joins me this half hour.

We're talking careers and answering your questions at 888-825-5225. Andrew is in California. Hey, Andrew, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Your question for Ken Coleman. Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Sure. My question is, so I love my current job that I'm in, but it's not directly in line with my future career goal.

And I want to know, do I stay for the now, or do I switch to that more direct path so that I can kind of grow my network? Well, the answer is, do you have something right now that you can switch to or something in the near future that you've identified and you know you can make this switch from the current job you love into at least the field that represents a ladder so you know there's a way to climb up? Yes, kind of. So currently I'm a group fitness instructor.

My goal is to be a physical therapist. So I know there's schooling in the middle, but there are some PT clinics that I've reached out to as like a part-time aid to kind of join to learn from. So the answer to that question is yes. Yeah, I love that. Can you actually do that part-time role and still keep your full-time gig? Yes, I can. I would just have to find it.

But yeah, it's definitely possible. That's the first step. Now, see, that's the first step because that's actually a step into proximity. So you've already got a loose connection to that eventual field of being a PT in this group exercise and all this kind of stuff. So at least in that general area, but the move over into the PT role, even though it's part-time, this is absolutely huge. In the book, The Proximity Principle, I talk about a place to learn being a place that

you volunteer sometimes just to get your foot in the door. In this case, you're now in a place to practice, as we talk about in the book, The Proximity Principle. And this is where low pressure, because it's a part-time gig, but you can get in there and make the connections. You're also bringing in extra revenue in the form of extra paycheck, which will help you cash flow your way through school, is what we want you to do.

Well, a home run ball over the fence would be you get in with somebody and they pay for your school. That's the deal. And the extra home run, here's the grand slam for playing the home run analogy. Then as you're going through school, you stay working with them, they pay for it, they hire you. You've got the job waiting for you when you finish the schooling and the licensing. So that's a good move into proximity there. Great move. So, yes, we're both in agreement.

Take that step, Andrew. Hold on. We'll send you a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle, and help you in this decision-making process. Kelly will pick up and get that to you. Up next is going to be Krista in Michigan. Hi, Krista. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Your question for Ken Coleman. Hi, Dave and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Yes, so I just recently finished cash flowing my way through undergrad in finance. Yes. Currently working as an accountant

and just starting my MBA cash flowing that as well. And accounting is not something that I love. It's something that I've been doing for a decade, but I know that with a degree in finance, there are all these different avenues that I could take, but I'm not sure what passion I guess I should use or which direction is the best way to use the degree so that I can be able to take care of my daughter and give her the life that she needs. Sure. Well, I don't think there's any question you're going to be able to take care of your

daughter. You're doing some amazing stuff, cash flowing your way through that degree and now cash flowing through the master's. When you say direction, I assume that you've got a couple ideas on your mind, but you're just uncertain. What are those couple of options? Maybe it's two or three. Yes. So at the end of my undergraduate studies, a lot of my classes were geared towards investments.

And so I know that that's something that I do like in terms of doing the research. I know there's analysts and things like that, but is that kind of like the day-in type of thing that I want to do working really long hours and kind of missing out on things? Sure. What's another option that you've thought about? Possibly looking at, you know, maybe something towards real estate. I'm just kind of like all over the place right now looking at insurance and I'm just not.

Great. I'm kind of like at a standstill right now. Well, but here's the good news. I'm going to give you some steps forward because you're really not stuck. What you are is scared. You're scared because you think you have to just pick one of those three, for example, and then go and jump off a cliff. And that's not what you have to do. So here's how we use the proximity principle, the book that Dave was just talking about that we gave away. So what you want to do is actually go have some coffee or lunch with anybody that is successful in those three fields. Let's take the investment, for instance. So you're familiar with Ramsey Solutions. You go to DaveRamsey.com as soon as this call is over.

And in your area, you research how many smart investor pros we have. Now, these are men and women that Dave has vetted, our team has vetted, and we recommend Dave's listeners go check them out and interview them every day to handle their investments. Well, you reach out to them and say, hey, I'm a Dave Ramsey listener. I listen to the Ken Coleman show. This is where I'm at in my journey. I might want to move into this. Would you be willing to have coffee on me or lunch on me? I'd love to learn more about what you do. And you go and you show up with a pencil and a piece of paper and you ask them questions, how they got there, what they like most, what they like the least. Say, hey, could I shadow you one time in a meeting? And you do this until you get a yes and you will get a yes. You repeat that process. It's a rinse and repeat with somebody

in real estate or someone in insurance. And here's what happens, Christa. All of a sudden, when you get real information, you're no longer wondering. You've got concrete answers to what you're wondering about, and you're clear. And a clear person is a confident person. So now, when you start hanging out with them, one of these three is going to emerge as your favorite. It's going to make your heart sing, and you know, ah, that's the direction. And once you have that confidence, well, then you just start making steps toward that particular space. And you continue to use the proximity principle by using relationships. And as you get that degree and you get there and you start hanging out, hey, how can I get in here, there? And all of a sudden, you have a very clear path. So you just have to run the process out and identify which of the three,

or if there's a couple more you didn't mention to me, which one of them really makes your heart come alive. And that won't be scary. Once you get answers, you're not scared. The thing that does remove fear always is options. Yes. And knowledge. Knowledge.

So once you gather information and options, then you're not afraid. No, nothing to be afraid of. The more knowledge you have, the more options you have. The options are power. Yes. Because you can go, well, if I don't do that, I'll do this. If I don't do that, I'll do this. That's right.

But when you feel like you're trapped into one particular track and you don't even have good information about it, it's terrifying. Yeah. It's like door number three, door number two, door number one. What day? What do I do? It's ambivalent. The ambivalence will kill you.

Scares people to death. Yeah. Jim Collins talks about that in his latest book. He said, you know, going through tough times doesn't scare people as much as not knowing. Ambiguity will kill you. Not knowing will scare the crud out of you. And that's true of any of us. In business, it's a scary thing.

And so anytime you can do a test market with a product and get a feel for it before you just launch the thing, the fear drops way down. The proximity principle says in order to do what you want to do, you've got to be around people that are doing it, that's sitting across from them and talking to them about their path, their day-to-day, their highs, their lows. What do they love most about it?

You can get a master's degree over a cup of coffee uh over lunch from the people that are doing what you think you want to do and then here's what happens we clarify and verify that's what that does yeah that's true that's very true crystal hold on we'll send you a copy of the book proximity principle as well it changes everything you know um i was speaking in kansas city this weekend and one of the five wealth principles that i teach is that you become who you hang around with which is proximity principle be not deceived evil company corrupts good habits whoever you're hanging around with you're going to be like them you're going to talk like them you're going to read the books they read you're going to have habit patterns like they have and so that is a type of proximity

thing there's no question just decide to do that and so you know one of the things when i went You're going to have habit patterns like they have. And so that is a type of proximity thing. There's no question. Just decide to do that. And so, you know, one of the things when I went broke, I said, hey, I don't want to be broke anymore. So what I'm going to do is take a bunch of millionaires to lunch and ask how they did it. And then once I became a millionaire, I thought, well, I'm going to start taking billionaires to lunch and ask how they did it. They're harder to find. But there's not as many of them.

But I've had, you know, I've had lunch with or dinner with probably 20, 25 billionaires now over the years. And the interesting thing about that is that only one of them was an absolute tool. Only one of them was an absolute jerk. And all the rest of them were very kind, giving, smart, hardworking, caring, passionate, but not jerks. That's right. And you did this way more intentional than that. Jim Rohn said we are the average of the five people we spend the most time with. For years, you had an Eagles group that you talked about on the air here.

Men that were on the same page. That were all high producers. Iron sharpens iron. Eagles don't naturally flock. You have to gather them. That's true. Turkeys naturally flock. That's good. Wow. Ken Coleman,. That's true. Turkeys naturally flock. That's good.

Wow. Ken Coleman, thanks for stopping by. Thanks for having me. Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author of the book, The Proximity Principle. Be sure you join him on The Ken Coleman Show. Good, solid information coming out of here. We're proud of this guy. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.