The Ramsey Show - App - Where Do Home Improvements Fit in the Baby Steps? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

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Thank you very much. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author of The Proximity Principle, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Sarah is going to start us off this hour in Saratoga Springs, New York. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. How are you? Great.

How can we help? Great. My husband and I are on Baby Step 3B, and we just closed on a house, and we were wondering how soon after we move into the house should we restart the retirement again well what do you think i think about three to four months so we can get used to the new budget in the house but my husband feels anxious that we haven't been putting it into retirement and he wants to start it as soon as possible yeah why would you wait um just because the house payment and the house expenses are a little bit different than what it is in our apartment. So I just wanted to get a better handle on what it's actually going to be per month.

Well, you ought to know. They gave you the payment amount at the closing. True. What is it you're going to discover? I guess of like repairs and stuff like that you just bought the house does it need repairs just like a new furnace it's like a 25 year old furnace so they suggested um replacing it soon so we were going to do that within the first couple months. Okay. Get some bids on a furnace. Okay.

So here's the thing, okay? You should not have all of these unknowns. And then once you don't have the unknowns, then that tells you when you can start the retirement or should start the retirement. But I'm with your husband. I've got an urgency to get going on it, but I don't want to start your retirement and then finance a furnace. No, we wouldn't do that.

I know, but the balance is we've got to figure out how we're going to pay for this furnace, right? And so go ahead and get, you know, we know what the house payment is. And it shouldn't be hard to pull up the electric bill. You can get copies of that from the former owner or even ask the utility company. They'll give you the history on that. So you have to be able to lay your budget out within a few dollars and then you say then you get three bids on a furnace and you go okay we're going to spend x number of dollars on a furnace and so that's going to mean we start the retirement we start retirement back after the furnace is saved and that's going to be here you ought to be able to lay all of this out but but the idea

we're going to kick the can down the road for vague unknowns that you should search out the answer to is not a good plan. Okay. Does that make sense to you? Total sense. Yeah, so go ahead and just dial it in. And if you get dialed in, you're okay, Ken. Yeah, and, you know, one other thing I'd say there is who's they? And let's get two or three they's to look at that furnace and say, do we need to replace it now or do we think it's got six months to a year life go ahead and save up for it get the quote of what it's going to cost get

three or four quotes and save it up but i i've been scared before dave i remember when i was a new homeowner and i oh you need to do this you need to do that well you need to do this well do we really yeah that's all you're still going to save up for it prepare for it stinking thing my last five years it could be the efficiency on too, would be worth going ahead and doing it now. But you also want to catch it on seasonality. That's true, too. Meaning you don't want to do a replacement when there's a line of people out the door doing replacements because the season changed, right?

That's correct. You want to do it in the off-season where they're catching them when they're not working and they give you a good deal. Yeah. And so the timing on it would be a good idea, too. But you're right. You can go ahead and save up and be ready for executing on a certain timing or just be ready when the thing lays down to fix it at that point. Anthony's with us.

Anthony is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Anthony. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Such an honor to chat with you. How are you doing? You, too. How can we help?

Just wondering on which baby step can we start updating kitchen, updating pool, that kind of thing? Well, we teach folks to not do anything until they're through baby step three, out of debt, and have your emergency fund fund in place because updating the kitchen is not an emergency so you need your emergency fund in place and be out of debt first now then at the point that you're at baby steps four five and six you move from intense meaning not doing anything except those things to intentional and intentional means that there's some other stuff in our life we're going to do while we're doing retirement kids college and paying extra on the house but we're also going on vacation buy a new couch update the kitchen do the pool whatever those things get woven into the budget at that

point of course paying cash for them and but um there's a different rhythm there ken and those uh three and four five six yeah i like the distinction between intense and then intentional. You know, okay, look, we just talked about this as a previous caller. We've got some real expenses. What would we consider higher priority? What's lower priority? What's just, well, we'd really like to do it, but it's really not going to affect our life, negative or positive,

one way or the other. And I think that's the intentionality that you're speaking to. And I've got to tell you, that's really helped us from time to time. Well, I want this, but we don't need this. Good distinction. The Ken Coleman Show is broadcast on 75-plus radio stations, Sirius XM, and as a podcast every day. He is helping folks with their careers, with their jobs, with their promotions,

with finding their dream, with finding work that matters and plugging in. Every day does that. Recruiters spend an average of 7.4 seconds on an initial resume screening. Gosh, that's probably double what I spend. And it's never been more difficult for your resume to stand out among the sea of participants. And that's why we, Ken, created a six easy-to-use resume templates to get you noticed. They're a whole $9.99, six of them.

And these are instructions for building your resume, the 10 do's and don'ts of job applications. Text RESUME to 33789. You can get dialed in on that resume to 33789. And, of course, you can follow Ken Coleman's show on Facebook, Ken Coleman on Instagram, the Ken Coleman Show on YouTube. He's everywhere helping people with their careers, including here today to help you. If you want to talk careers, jump in at 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Kelsey says, in my office there's a job opening that would be considered a promotion. What can I do to show my boss I'm qualified? Yeah, I love this. I sit down with them after we've looked at the actual job description and make sure you are qualified. You just don't want to be qualified. In this particular question, it's all right.

We're going to sit down. If you've got the qualifications and go, hey, I'm really interested in this opportunity. Here's why. Don't just lead with qualifications. Lead with enthusiasm. See, this is what a leader wants to know. They want to know not just that you're qualified, but you're raising your hand, not just for a promotion for you, but because you are really, really deeply excited about this opportunity

to grow yourself by adding more value to the company. They're going to go for enthusiasm, some passion, more than just qualification. And lay it out there. I'm really interested. I want the shot. What can I do to get the shot? But, man, coach. That's it.

But hunger, right? Not with an attitude of, hey, give me the thing. I'm the guy that you're supposed to put in the game. No. I want the shot, coach. Put me in. Put me in, coach. I'll prove it.

That's it. I'll prove it. Hunger. Humility. I got this. I got it. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, I heard a sad and touching story recently. Zander Insurance has set up a scholarship for children whose parents died without life insurance. Last year, they gave away over $165,000 to help kids avoid debt

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on The Ramsey Show. If you feel like you've tried everything when it comes to money, but you can't seem to get traction, I know the feeling. A lot of people do. Maybe you tried budgeting, but you couldn't figure it out. Or you got big money goals, and you're not sure how to reach them. You may need a financial coach, someone who can help you understand what's holding you back develop a custom plan to reach your goals and we've got a network of financial coaches all across the country who are ready to work with you they're called ramsey preferred coaches these financial coaches

are trained the ramsey way not only will they guide you with a personal plan they'll help you form the right habits to win with money now let us help you find the right coach for you we'll connect you with the top three coaches in your area and you get to choose which one you want to work with it's time to make progress with your finances stop wanting to reach your money goes and start doing it to get started text coach me to 33789 text coach me all one word to 33789 grace is with us in kansas city she's in northland christian high school's personal finance class with our curriculum hey guys how are you class oh he's saying hi to class okay hold on i on. I'm not on speakerphone. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. I love it.

All right, Ms. Grace, how can we help? All right. So we've been watching your content in our class for quite a bit, and we thought it would be fun to call you. So our little question we came up with was if your spouse is in a pretty financially, like unstable situation and you're not what's like a good plan what's a good place to start to handle that okay so that's a weird question for people in high school but that's okay i still like it it's a good question um the uh uh well to start with what we would teach people to do is to get on the same page with each other so that one of you is not carrying the other one and one of you is not holding the other one back.

In other words, there's not her money and his money. It's our money. And so whatever money comes in, we are going to manage it together, and we are going to agree on a plan. We both have a vote on where that money is going to go, and we are going to stick to a plan, we both have a vote on where that money is going to go, and we are going to stick to the plan that we agreed to. And suddenly the one that is struggling with stability has the other one for accountability, and the one that was trying to drag along the one who was unstable is no longer doing that

because they now have a willing participant helping them, you know, and working together. And so, for instance, sometimes what happens is, not sometimes, almost always what happens is one is more of a spender than the other. I'm the bigger spender at my house. My wife's more of a natural saver. And so it did our marriage a lot of good 30 years ago for us to be on the same page and be in agreement on any spending that was going to occur before it occurred. So I don't buy things without my wife knowing it ahead of time and without us being in agreement on the purchase. And she doesn't buy things without me knowing it.

So we're on the same page. And I know, Ken, you and Stacey do the same thing. Absolutely. And the key phrase here, you and Stacey do the same thing. Absolutely. And the key phrase here that Dave just shared is willing participant. Those two things, we get these calls a lot on the Ramsey Show. We've counseled and coached a lot of couples where we'll have a caller call in and say, Hey, Dave, I'm using your steps, but my spouse isn't. How do I get?

This willing participant piece is really huge. That getting on the same page about finances is a relationship issue. And many times you've got to get healthy and get that relationship where it needs to be to where both people are seeing this desired future and seeing how handling your money God's ways is the way to do it. And so that is always key. You've got to be on the same page. And sometimes relationally you've got to handle that first to be able to then take care of the money stuff yeah so grace since i've got the northern northern northland christian high school curriculum finance class the whole finance class from the foundations and personal finance captive let's kind of go let's turn the question a little bit

and take it all the way more uh make it more relevant for you guys, because the vast majority of you are not married, I suppose. Okay? And so what it amounts to is this. We know statistically from doing this for decades that the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. We know the number one thing couples fight about, which of course then leads to divorce oftentimes, is money fights and money problems.

So if we know that this is the number one enemy of your future marriage, when you are dating, this is the number one thing you're going to make sure you're on the same page on before you become spouses. Ding, ding, ding. There it is. So, you know, if you cannot, if you know you're getting ready to marry, you ladies are getting ready to marry a guy who just doesn't like to work much. In other words, he's a lazy hound dog. Okay. And he's not, he's always going to struggle, but he's an artist and he's fun. And he's a, he's a bad boy or whatever it is that you think he's attractive. Ha ha.

Right. But at the end of the day, you know when you're 30, you're still going to be supporting this bozo. This guy's not marriage material. Guys, if you're dating a girl and she's a freaking princess and she thinks the whole world revolves around her and she can spend whatever she wants to spend like she's in Congress because her daddy always gave her more money than she had since

and he had since, and you think you can keep up with that with your income starting a new household? You screwed man you're not going to you're never going to make that little princess happy and she's always going to make you broke so if you can't get on the same page while you're dating moving towards marriage about money that is the ultimate reason to not get married to not continue the relationship yep i think it's absolutely right dave i would tell josie i would tell chase and tie the same thing it ought to be non-negotiable if this is what you believe about money what we teach and you really believe it then it has to be uh it's a foundational issue before you even think about marriage yeah because it's it can it be done

have we seen marriages change after the fact yes. But why not avoid the pain? Avoid the pain. I think that's great advice. So, again, you don't have to worry about this in high school, but later on when you're entering more serious relationships that are going to lead to marriage, do not go forward with those if you're not paired on this issue, if you can't get agreement that this is how we're going to live our life. We're not going to spend like we're in Congress.

We're not going to buy cars we can't afford unless we can pay cash for them. We're not going to. We're always going to have money saved. We're going to live on a plan. We're both going to be in agreement. We're going to combine our finances. These are things that indicate that you're working together going forward. You will save yourself, young people, an amazing amount of heartache if you don't try to train your spouse after marriage.

That's true. And here's the other thing. Don't just talk to them about it and settle for the, yeah, yeah, I'm fine with that. If you're going to get serious, now we're talking about down the road, as Dave's talking about, if you're going to get serious, before you say yes or you ask, look at their finances. Get them to show you. Again, somebody's got something to hide, won't show you. I'm just telling you that. Somebody who's a mess right now and saying all the things, but their actual current personal finances are a mess, that's a red flag. I mean, I got to tell you. I don't mind if they're in a mess. I don't even mind if they're in debt as long as they're working their tail off to get it straightened out.

That's correct. That they're actually acting on it, not giving you speak. We are not saying don't marry someone with debt. No, we're not saying that. We're saying don't marry someone who loves debt if you hate debt because you're going to hate each other before it's over. It's not going to work. And so, you know, you need to be on the same page with that. And the marriage folks in the

marriage field and dr john deloney confirms this that there's tons of research that backs up the other three areas by the way while we're in this uh that you need to be in agreement on uh prior to marriage are religion kids whether to have them how many and how to treat them and how to deal with the crazy people in your family the in-laws and there are crazy people in your family and if you don't think there's crazy people in your family that means it's you because everyone has crazy people somewhere in their family and so there you go yeah you need to be in agreement on boundaries, kids, religion, and money. And if you can lay those things in place as a healthy dating relationship, your statistical chance of that marriage working out is very, very high.

It's true. And of it being high-quality marriage. Don't discount it, folks. I'm telling you. Dave's right on this. I mean, you've got to know what's non-negotiable. Yeah. How does life work? I don't believe there right on this. I mean, you've got to know what's non-negotiable. Yeah. How does life work, you know?

I don't believe there's a God. I hate God. I'm mad at God. I'm mad at people who think there's a God. And the other one is I worship Jesus 24-7. This ain't going to work out, boys and girls. It will not. Missionary dating doesn't work.

I'm sorry. Sorry. It's just the real world. And you can get mad and tweet about me. I don't look on Twitter work. I'm sorry. Sorry. It's just the real world. And you can get mad and tweet about me. I don't look on Twitter anyways. Have at it. This is The Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Joy and her mom, Ruth, are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Very good. Thank you. And you? Better than I deserve. It's an honor to have you. Where do you guys live? Chihuahua, Mexico. It's about three hours from El Paso, Texas. Oh, yeah. Wow. So an international debt-free screen right here. Very cool. So how much did you pay off? About $119,000. $119,000.

And how long did this take? About four years. Four years. Okay. And what was the range of your income during this time? Was it personal debt or what? It was a business. We were self-employed.

It was about $250,000 average. Okay. All right. So what kind of business was're self-employed it was about uh 250 000 average okay all right so what kind of business was this it's a tree nursery my mom and brother and i we have a tree nursery we grow and sell trees oh okay fun what kind of trees anything fruit trees evergreen trees bushes whatever you want good all right so tell me the story. What happened here? $119,000 of business debt paid off in four years. Yes. When I was a teenager, it started about before that. When I was a teenager, my dad at the time was listening to different people, and he told us kids, I have three brothers, to listen to Dave Ramsey.

And you were talking about spending, well, living on nothing and spending less money, and I thought, well, we already living on nothing and spending less money and i thought well we already live on nothing we had no vacations and no nothing of that sort not really and and then so we forgot about you and then end of 2016 i started doing the business papers the expenses and all of that and i realized how very messy and unorganized it was just terrible and so I started googling anything I could find on business advice and this one day your name popped into my head I believe was the Holy Spirit that gave it to me and so I started listening to you searching for you and I loved it I got very excited wanted to get organized. And then about two weeks after that, my dad got diagnosed with bone cancer.

Oh, my. And he did not have insurance. So all the money went to that directly, right away. We couldn't pay off anything. Then in 2017, we started paying off a little bit. But the majority we paid off 2019 to 2021. And I take it since he's not here, he didn't survive the bone cancer. No, he died two years ago.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You guys have been through a lot. Yes. So the kiddos step in and help run the business then, if that's what it amounts to. Yes, they did. I was very thankful for that. Amen.

Yes. Amen. And obviously very capable. Yes. Yes. And then some. Capable plus, yeah. Very good.

Well, good job. So a horrible way to end up in charge, but you're in charge at this point. And, Joy, and you start hammering the debt i guess is what you're saying yeah yeah he was very mad at the debt very mad and so but your advice it was very practical for us i was expecting for looking for business advice something high where i would not be able to reach and it was so common sense so thank you for that i i really learned a lot we all did my brothers as well they got very excited about it now i don't get a lot of calls from mexico so did i did you call in yes i did how long ago i'd say about one one to two years i okay this is coming back to me oh you were working you're starting to work the plan chihuahua and tree nursery yeah that's starting to ring a bell

a little bit yes i mean if it was somewhere else i might it might not have remembered it because it all kind of runs together but that does ring a bell so you called in a couple of years ago yes was that nice to you you were very nice do you remember what your question was regarding yes i wanted to ask about the business exactly because it did not bring much profit or hardly any. And then, so I was wondering how in the world are we going to pay the stat off if we do not have any profit? And was it either to sell the business

or to, you know, I was clueless what to do with it. And you mentioned if the profit was going to be a bit more, if we could get the profit a little bit higher to pay off the debt, we should do that. Otherwise, sell it. and so we tried that and it worked we we did pay off so you got to keep going what did you do to to juice that profit actually just getting organized we had so much money going out everywhere that we didn't even know about and me and my brother uh one of

the the one that's with me now working on it, and she as well, we just all very intensely tracked all the expenses and income, and that gave us a little wiggle room. We had been very disorganized. Yes, and with my husband being sick, the nursery was left behind. So when he died, we started organizing it again. It was very overwhelming to start. How long did it take to to kind of get the chaos out six months or a year a year or maybe even two yeah yeah and and but it's a lot more peaceful to run it yes now without the chaos with systems and organization right yes

yes and we had a lot of trouble in the meantime trying to pay off debt. Like the trucks were old. They were breaking down and flat tires and the irrigation system wasn't working. We had to fix that again and again. A lot of hard work. But you made it. Yes. And here you are with no debt.

How does it feel? Very amazing. And you come all the way to Tennessee to do your debt-free script. Yes. Well, you are with no debt. How's it feel? Very amazing. And you come all the way to Tennessee to do your debt-free screen. Yes. Well, we are honored. We're honored. You ladies are your family, your heroes for fighting your way through this. That's pretty incredible.

Great entrepreneurial story. It really is. It's fascinating to see how they turned it around. Just organization, getting control of the outflow, the expenses. That's the story. Pretty amazing stuff. And this has got big-time potential, I'm guessing now, that you've got this thing running well?

I really hope so. That's what I'm aiming for. Good for you. Well, she has a profit now. Profit is a good thing. It's a start. It's a good thing. It enables you to fix flat tires on trucks easier.

Oh, my goodness. We also cash flowed my youngest brother's wedding also in the middle of it all. Wow. So how many brothers and sisters? How many siblings? Three brothers. Three brothers and you. All right.

Are you the oldest? I'm in the middle. You're in the middle. Okay. Well, actually, there's one boy. He's the oldest. He manages all the nursery. She manages the expenses and all the money.

And she has a twin brother, which we have here. And then the youngest brother, he works for his uncle right now. Okay. All right. Cool. That's wonderful. Great family business. So what do you tell people the key?

Joy, you did it. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is perseverance and determination that's it i could not have done it without i yeah a lot of stubbornness in a good way because it was hard it was very hard but plus trusting god amen learning on a on a higher level to trust god and we we also wanted to give like we during that time all of it when my dad was sick there were so many people they were on a higher level to trust God. And we also wanted to give. During that time, all of it, when my dad was sick, there were so many people. They were generous, and they came and visited,

and just so willing to give. And that looked so beautiful to me. So we hope to be that way, too. We want to give and be kind to other people. I wish my Spanish was as good as your English. Where did you learn your English, both of you? High school, from little on. Just part of the curriculum?

Yeah. Okay. Wow. Very cool. Wonderful. Very fun. So proud of you, ladies and gentlemen. Very well done.

Very well done. Well, we've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. That's the, for sure, what you've been involved in here is legacy-type work. And that's the next chapter in this you've been involved in here's legacy type work and uh that's the next chapter in this story for it to continue very cool um best debt free scream in a while yes pretty neat love this very neat very neat and also a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away to someone thank you and uh if you prefer it in uh spanish and both of them are available in spanish just to hand out to friends or whatever that's uh happy to help you either way whatever whatever is good for you.

So excellent, excellent, excellent. All right, it's Joy and her mom, Ruth, from Chihuahua, Mexico. They paid off the nursery. They paid off the tree business and made it. Man, absolutely amazing. $119,000 paid off in four years. $250,000 a year top line on the business. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Worth a trip to Nashville. That's fun. I love it. So beautiful. So well done. This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. William is in Riverside, California.

Hi, William. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. What's going on? Ken, finishing up the proximity principle and looking forward to your new book. So congrats on that. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So here's my situation. I'm active duty Navy and about to be moving at least three times in 2022. My wife is about to graduate from her master's program in occupational therapy, and she's

going to be getting her credentials to practice in the first half of the new year. We are on baby step two on our second to last debt, which should be paid in the next two months and that would just leave us with $80,000 in student loan debt. We're looking forward to making our shovel bigger with my wife being able to work in the field. But we've been talking a lot about when we will start having kids and we're concerned about balancing the debt snowball and starting our family. So I'd love to send advice and comfort in this situation. We don't decide

about kids and marriages based on debt. When it's time to have babies, you have babies. You'll work it out. You'll work it out. You've got plenty of room they're not that expensive they uh they don't eat that much uh all this crap the kids will i mean if you have 17 kids it'll break you that's different but if you're gonna have a baby you're gonna be just fine you're gonna be just fine and the same thing with marriage the only thing we tell folks about marriage is you need to be on the same page that you're heading in the right direction together but i don't tell people not to marry someone with debt, and I don't tell people to not have babies because they've got debt.

As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. It's a good reason to have babies. What's the timeline look like? Forget debt for just a moment to start trying to have babies with your wife moving into a new career. Have you talked about that? A little bit. We kind of go back and forth because she does have a little bit. Have you talked about that? A little bit. You know, we kind of go back

and forth because she does have a little bit of shame and, you know, the fact that most of her student loans, that is hers. And I've, you know, I've told her that's not a big deal. But I guess somewhere between when we're moving next year, we'd like to at least start, we're going to be coming off of birth control soon. And we're just kind of looking forward to maybe mid-2022. But I think it's a shame that's getting us. No, there is no shame. Yeah. No.

Babies are God's gift, and babies are the best thing that ever happened to me. And she's going to pay that off. She's going to make very good money as an occupational therapist. You guys are on the path. You know how to pay this off. You're going to get there. Have the babies, and you're going to get through the baby steps in the right time. Now, let's go ahead and say she's probably an occupational therapist for a while.

Yeah. Because you've got to clean this mess up. That's exactly right. So it's not like she's going to be a stay-at-home mom. You don't have the budget for that. That's correct. But it's not that you can't have kids, for sure. So you do what you want to do.

It sounds like you already are. I missed the part where I'm going to say no, and they're going to go back on birth control. That's really awkward as crud. But no, I'm definitely not going there. So I can't even believe I said that out loud. But anyway, that's what he said. It's a little warm in the studio all of a sudden for me. I don't know about anybody else.

No, they'll get it. I mean, look, she can could be a working mom and crush this thing and that's beautiful bo's with us in miami hey bo how are you i'm good dave i'm like so freaked out that i'm on air right now okay it's okay we've never lost a patient. Yeah, you sound pretty good. This is crazy. Okay, yeah, I'm Bo. I'm in Miami. I currently make $35,000. I work for a nonprofit that I really, really love, and they just called me and asked me if I'd be willing to continue working for them but in a different state. And I'm torn because this is really what I want to do,

and I like torn because this is really what I want to do, and I like the work, but it doesn't line up with the amount of money I make doesn't line up with paying off my debt in two years. So I don't know what to, like, I'm torn about whether I should go with a career and, like, really let, like, that be what drives me or whether I should stick to the numbers and then work it out after that.

I really want to be debt-free as soon as possible, but I was like, if I'm debt-free before 30, maybe that's good. How old are you? I don't know. 25. Okay. And you're going to pay off the debt in two years if you stay in the current situation making $35,000?

No. No. What I make right now, $35,000, is not going to get me that in two years. I've already paid off $23,000, and I have $59,000 to go. Okay. Well, first of all, fantastic. So how much money do you calculate that you would need to make to be able to pay off the debt in two years, or even less? What's that number? That's like $70,000. That's almost $70,000, and I already do full-time work with the non-profit.

Right. You're making $35,000 with this non-profit. Really like $37,000. Sorry, $37,000. Here's the deal. I just want to give you an alternate narrative for a second. If you were to

go get a $70,000 job, and in this economy you can right now, you probably could. If you're qualified or you could get there, you could make that money. You could also get a side hustle, a good second job and really bust it, and you could get there and make that kind of money. But if you weren't doing this work that you love, you wouldn't be able to do that for very long. You could do it long enough to pay off that debt and then get back into the nonprofit world. That is a viable option.

But you have to be okay with that. Or you can stay there and work for this organization that you really, really love doing the work that you know you're supposed to do, and then you just bust it and you work hard and you really just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut in every waking hour at 25 years of age that you're not doing that work you love. You're doing work you have to do. And I think you can get there. So I think you've got a couple options there.

How about a third option? Oh, here we go. Where we find something that pays $70,000 or $100,000 a year that you love doing. That is a viable option as well. It's not just the nonprofit world. Why do you have to make less to love what you're doing i don't understand this concept i don't think you should make more doing what you love yeah and part of me thinks like maybe what is it about your work that you love

well i love that i get to share the gospel and i love that i get to share the gospel, and I love that I get to, like, really work with people, like, that are, to help communities, like, respond to the needs of people around them. That's very cool. And... So do I. Yeah. Yeah. And I make a lot more than $35,000. Yeah.

And I share the gospel every day. Yeah. I just, I've never been offered, offered like a job while i have a job and so it's kind of hard for me to think about i'm not i'm not i'm not challenging the job i'm just saying that i think the things that you are doing could be done a lot of different the things that jazz you could be done a lot of different ways and it doesn't even necessarily have to be under the heading of non-profit. That's correct. Non-profit's not in the Bible.

Non-profit is an IRS designation. It doesn't make it holy or righteous because it's non-profit. It just means they're broke. So what we're saying is you're not destined to $35,000. You can make more doing work that is ministry-related, and you can make more. And I think you will. At 25, you're still very young. But the reality is you've got some serious options here.

I wouldn't say no to this. The general question, the first question was, should I take this job? I've been offered an opportunity, but it doesn't make as much as I would like it to make to pay off the debt as fast as I want to pay it off. Well, she's already in the 37,500. She's talking about moving to another state, doing a similar thing, at less money even Right. Well, she's already in the $37,500. She's talking about moving to another state and a similar thing at less money even yet. Well, cost of living. And so, no, I don't think you can make the move to the other state. So here's the thing.

What I'm trying to shake up here, and I'm being snarky to do it, which is my normal method, is the narrative, the idea that, A, you have to make less to do what you love. That's just not true. It should be the other way. And, B, that in order for you to be able to share the gospel and minister in the community, that it has to be in a nonprofit setting, or it has to be in a setting where you don't get paid anything. And none of that is true. Those are not true narratives and so you can

be a compassionate kind giving generous person working in a compassionate giving kind generous organization uh that is christian based and sharing the gospel and there's a lot of places that'll pay more than 35 000 doing that yeah and i want to point out the the last piece of that though that if you, let's take a teacher. In the largest millionaire study ever done by Ramsey Solutions, third largest group of net worth millionaires, teachers. Median salary, the median in the United States

is $60,000. When you find that work you love, you can still pay off debt, and you can still be a millionaire. But you're going to have to live differently and cut your expenses, and you have to take a second job from time to time to pay off that debt. So, you know, it's not about the size of the salary. It's what's my lifestyle to do the work that I love, depending on the profession.

Beautiful thing about the generation of people in their 20s, I think we call it the Peace Corps generation, because they have a heart to serve the community. Even if they have different belief systems, different faiths, there's a heart to serve that's beautiful. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.