The Ramsey Show - App - Where There's A Will, There's A Way (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting today's show with Jade Warshaw, bestselling author. Good to have you, Jade. Glad you are here. Good to be here. And we are here to answer your calls, America. It's a free call. Why do I say that? I always say it's a free call anywhere in the country, but it's always been a free call for a long time. Toll free.

Toll free, 888-825-5225. So give us a call. Again, we're talking about your life, your money, your relationships. We are here for you. So first up, we have Debbie in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey,

Debbie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. First, I'd like to say thank you for all the education you guys have given me over the last few months. It's been very helpful in my journey. I'm so glad.

Thank you. So here's my story. I got divorced about four years ago, separated for, it took about four years to get divorced. I was married for almost 25. Oh man. So I've been navigating my life for the last couple of years, trying to figure out what works for me. I was fortunate enough to get a nice alimony through my divorce. And I had, my ex-husband had to give me a vacation home of ours that I sold for twice as much as what we valued it for. So I have $1.6 million in the bank and I'm looking to build a house. And my financial advisor is telling me I shouldn't pay cash for my house. And I am just like, it's stressful for me. I don't know what the right

thing is to do. And, um, is he giving you a reason? Is he giving you a reason? What's his reason for that? He says, it just doesn't make sense to take 37 percent of my money to build a house like that that it just doesn't make financial sense and interesting i haven't you know when i when i was married you know my ex-husband took care of all of our finances so this is so new to me and i and i listen to your show a lot and i hear all the different things you know, that you guys say about what they claim. If the interest rates are lower, you're getting more for your money if it's invested.

And again, I get super confused. And so I just don't know. You know, I'm 50. I'll be 60 in two months. Okay. You know, looking towards retirement. So, Debbie, what other debt do you have? Do you have any debt? I have no debt. Okay. You know, looking towards retirement. So, Debbie, what other debt do you have? Do you have any debt?

I have no debt. Okay. What's your current home? What's your current home valued at? I don't have a house right now. I live in an apartment. Okay. Okay.

And how much are you looking to, how much are you wanting to spend on this build? So, the quote for the house is $630. And you just want to plop down the cash pay for it outright and that be that yeah and as you have retirement do you have anything any other savings well i have the 1.6 million which would dwindle to 1 million which would you knock that down to one million right okay and what's it what are you living off of right now like what's your so are you still working so i i i get alimony which is about sixty two thousand dollars a year tax free okay um and then i have a lot called in my side gigs for my jobs that I absolutely love that I make about $25,000 which is, I'm a nanny and I

truly love my job. So, again, I'm six, I'll be 60 soon so I don't know how long all this is going to last as far as my income goes. But my alimony is lifetime. Alimony is lifetime yes lifetime okay i so debbie you're gonna well

as i say your financial advisor is naturally always going to yield in the sense of investing your money of course because that's you know how most of them make money and again we're not mad at that there you know there is a time and a place to invest money and that is a wise thing to do but it's also really stupid debbie, in my opinion, to go and take out a loan for something that you have money for with a plenty of other money of a million dollars left over. If you said you had a million dollars, you want to go buy a million dollar house, I'd say, no, Debbie, we can't do that. But you're spending six. Yeah, you're gonna have a million dollars at 60 years old as a net worth of just cash, plus a $600,000 paid for house. And if you invested that million dollars, Debbie,

and you did that for 20, 30 years, you're okay, Debbie. You have a paid for house. You have no bills. I know. That sounds so freeing to me. I almost would just fire your financial advisor because I think you're on separate pages.

I think the way they view money is in a in a very stereotypical way and again ramsey we're known as being a little bit different in this arena anyways but um but from a mathematical standpoint this is not a massive risk you're gonna have a million dollars still still in a paid for house and you know there's always there's always that equation of peace who wants to enter into retirement with a mortgage payment right right that's just more that you'll be that's more money you'll be pulling out of that investment anyway i mean it's going to get paid for regardless so you may as well pay for it up front yeah and debbie the 630 that that's that's everything right land build and all correct i've already bought the land okay it's already purchased yeah yeah and it's on a beautiful lake like i feel really special and fortunate

yes if i woke up in your shoes i would definitely do this yeah and you mentioned earlier debbie and just to kind of give some clarity around it um you said you'd listened to the show and heard about interest rates and all of that so one deterrent for people for paying off their house is they may have a low interest rate on their mortgage at two to three percent, right? Where in the market, you could be making 10 percent. So a lot of people say, why would you, you know, why would you take money that could be making 10 percent and pay off something that you're only paying two percent, if that makes sense. So people have that argument a lot. And mathematically, we understand that. We know that that is the math.

Of course. But what people don't put into the equation, number one is a level of risk. Whenever you carry any level of debt, even a mortgage, there is a level of risk in your life. You owe someone something. And then the second, Debbie, is that they don't calculate and put into a formula, a spreadsheet, peace, like what they don't calculate and put into a formula, a spreadsheet, peace, like what Jade mentioned earlier. This level of peace that you don't, again, you're not strapped to anyone. You are free and clear financially. And that is the most powerful thing that you can do. So Debbie, I'm so thankful you're listening to the show because I'm so sorry you went through this horrible divorce. But we talked to a lot of women

who are in a similar situation that for the first time, they're kind of out on their own financially and they're having to learn and all of this. So Debbie, if you stay on the line, Christian's going to pick up and I want to throw in Jade and I's book, both of our books. Do you just to continue just to learn and to grow in this area? Because personal finance, it doesn't have to be that complicated, but you do want good people in your corner. And I don't trust the advice of your financial advisor if i were to be honest i just think it's you know money is so much more sometimes we're just looking at the numbers and the dollars and the cents but in this case it really humanizes because it takes into account like our psychology and our emotions and the way we feel not just a

math equation and so honestly you're right this is one of the one times where the math it's not always about the math and how the math maths. That's right. That's right. Yes. Yes. Yep. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. But when it comes to debt and borrowing money, there is a truth that the borrower is slave to the lender. And when you are free of that, it's an amazing thing. What happens to your your body, your your soul, your mind when you don't owe anyone anything. So Debbie, I think you're in a really, to go through such a hard situation,

you have a beautiful life ahead of you that I think you can do really well. And I think trust your guts because Debbie, you were right. How you're feeling, it's the way we would go to. So thanks for the call. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with Jade Warshaw,

and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next is Emily in Pensacola. Hey, Emily, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much, y'all, for taking my call. I appreciate it. Absolutely. How can we help? Okay, so my husband and I appreciate it. Absolutely. How can we help? Okay.

So my husband and I had gone through a financial piece, gosh, over a decade ago. But, you know, life happened and five kids happened. And right now we're back on it but finishing up baby step number two. We have no consumer debt, a little bit of student loans left that we expect to be paid off by the end of this year. And then we'll just be left with our mortgage. We are in a 30-year veteran loan, but we plan to pay it off early within hopefully 10 to 15 years. My question is, so right now we have,

my question is kind of regarding my credit score. We have four credit cards right now that are open but frozen. We have not used them in probably about a year. We're kind of, I guess, not sure what to do with those accounts. We're kind of leaving them open right now so that if we close them, they don't affect our credit score. Our hope is that if we have the opportunity in the next few years to refinance, to get a lower interest rate that we would do that in order to help us pay off our mortgage even quicker. But we're just not sure,

do we close our credit cards and risk that affecting our credit score? Would that affect it drastically? Or do we leave them open and frozen and kind of maintain our credit score? We just don't kind of want to tank it and lose that chance to refinance in the future. So there is something to be said about when you're going through the process of paying off debt. There's kind of this spoken or in some cases unspoken thought that, okay, when we do this, we're not borrowing money again. Therefore, we wouldn't need our credit score again. Therefore, we can close our credit cards.

And so in your case, you're kind of thinking about, well, we don't plan on borrowing money anymore, but we want to refinance. And I can just tell you just from personal situation, we have a mortgage and we don't have any other credit cards and we don't have anything else. And before we had our mortgage, our credit score went to zero. We purchased a home with a loan and our credit is like almost perfect. And all we have on there is our mortgage. So you might see an initial drop just because you're closing accounts, but it's not going to go to zero and it's not going to be terrible because you're still have something major like a mortgage that you're paying every single month on time. And so there is part of that, that it's going to make it okay.

And it's going to keep it, you know, in the upper range. And so I don't think you have to be worried about that. But I kind of, my question for you is, do you have any other qualms about your credit score because I do think that when you go and set out to follow the Ramsey plan you have to know eventually your credit score is going to go to zero and you kind of have to cut ties with that old way of thinking yeah and I so ultimately like we do want our credit score to be undeterminable like that is our ultimate goal we don't plan on taking out any more debt. Like you had said, like we have two cars. They're old.

They're paid for. So we have basically our credit cards are frozen in a safe. So we haven't even kind of activated the new ones that was our extended length of credit attached to some of these cards that, you know, with wanting to potentially refinance in order to get the house paid off, that we just didn't want to. What's your interest rate now? Like 6.8. Okay. So you guys just recently bought in the last year or two. Okay.

We bought it. If I were you, I'd cancel them sooner than later so that your score has the ability to kind of do what it's going to do and then even out to where it's going to even out. And then when the time comes, who knows when these interest rates get lower, then you will have a clear indicator of what it will be and it won't be in that fluctuation stage. Yeah. And Emily, when you look at the calculations of how a credit score is even mathematically determined, one of the pieces of the pie is new debt. And you guys aren't doing that. So in one sense, you got everything frozen, but you're not taking on new debt. So you're not playing the game naturally anyway. So there is a

chance even because of that, mathematically speaking, you may even see a downtick slowly because you're not playing that game and so if you're not playing it i would just cut ties with it and like what jade said even it back out or you know if if all else fails like you're gonna be fine you know what i mean so um so in my head it is it's just a because i don't want i don't want accounts out there floating around even if they're frozen no way so just just being able to get rid of them getting guests like jade said when everything is back then and stabilized and sadly the truth is who knows who knows what's going to happen in the future so i'd rather take things under my control and do something that i can do which is just get rid of them close it out and then see how the

world shakes out and then go from there 100 all right next let's go to kyle in charlotte hey kyle welcome to the show hey how y'all we're doing well how can we help so i got a little dilemma i'm just been started watching uh the ramsay show probably two months ago and i'm currently in baby step one i did um get the every dollarollar app. I am using that, created a budget. So I have me and my fiancee. We have a three-month-old baby girl. She has a 14-year-old daughter that actually lives with us as well. We bought a home about two years ago.

Mortgage is around $157,000 left on it. She has two vehicle loans. One is around $157,000 left on it. She has two vehicle loans. One is around $18,000. The other one is around $8,000. So she also has three credit cards, and she has a personal loan. So I don't have any debt currently in my name. But all of her debt together is around $42,000, not including the home mortgage. So she stays home. She's a stay-at-home mother. I'm a full-time firefighter. I have two part-time

jobs as well. And I'm trying to figure out, you know, I am going to snowball the debt after I do the baby step one, which that's baby step two. But I'm trying to get her on board with the budget. When do you get married? We actually don't have a marriage date yet. That's what I was going to say as well. So our, our relationship is actually hanging on by a thread because of, you know, we don't see eye to eye on the financial state. That's a big deal. It's a big deal. Kyle, has that, has that, um, has that changed in the last two months since you've been watching us or has it always been like that? So it's been like that more since

my, my daughter was born. Yeah. Okay. You know, I've always been a saver. And, you know, now that my daughter's born, you know, I grew up, my parents separated when I was 12. So I've seen, I know how that affects the kid. And I don't want that. Yep. And, you know, I look at the future like anything can happen.

So she's not like that. Like I asked her the other day because I was listening. I was like, you know, what is your 10 year goal? Where do you see yourself in 10 years? And she's she's told me she said, you know, I just I worry about today. I don't worry about 10 years. I'm like, you know. So when you ask her her philosophy on on money and you're asking

her hey like are you at a point in life where you're done borrowing how do you feel about paying off debt is she able to give an answer that has any promise so she will say she don't want to borrow any more money but it's just like now you know um she's made some financial decisions that i didn't agree with and you know i don't i don't have i didn't have the control over that at that point well it's listen she can go do what she wants the hard part is you guys are um in in a the situation is made more complex because you're not yet married but you're kind of in this situation where your life seems like you're married so you you feel like listen i have to step in my debt her debt's my debt and so the whole thing is very confused and i think that as much as you can

keep some clarity around that and either marry her or not but i would not start paying off this debt until you've decided if this is the person that you're going to spend your life with. Yeah. Yeah. And Kyle and I would have the conversation with her from a vulnerable, you know, not just, well, what are you, you, you pointing? Tell her you like what's going on in Kyle. What is the fear that you have? What is going on? And, and, and, and start these conversations. And you've said this before, Jade on different shows, but like it takes, it sometimes takes time, right? yes right you've had a mindset a natural shift and then Ramsey's probably confirmed that because we lean probably more on your side Kyle but you guys together need to sit down and

have these conversations but for now keep the finances separate you don't need to be paying on her debt because if she's not getting out of the day comes from taylor in missouri she says my husband graduated college about 10 years ago and has not paid off a dime of his 80 000 dollars in student loans anytime i approach him about it he just blows me off i'm a stay-at-home mom with our third baby on the way and i'm afraid the government is going to garnish his wages what should I do oh well I mean yeah you're getting up to it yeah 100% like if you don't pay your student loans that first day that you're past due that's considered delinquent yep and then if you're delinquent for 90 days you're considered default and then at that point like it a lot can happen number one your loan can go into acceleration where basically the

whole amount is due at once and you're no longer eligible for payment plans and you're no longer eligible for forbearance or whatever those other things are and they can start to garnish your wages yep um amongst other things so if i were you i would be very concerned about this here's these are those times where you have to have really clear boundaries in place and you have to have a a what if like if and kind of i hate to say it like an ultimatum but this is the way i feel and here's what i believe needs to be taking place and if these few things don't start to take place then this is what's I feel and here's what I believe needs to be taking place and if these few things don't start to take place then this is what's going to take place on my end and so that's the

way I would approach it my guess is she doesn't say what the conversations have been but I would approach it yeah yeah and if he's a husband that blows blows me off that's a problem it's probably not just in this scenario either right it's probably not just about money that that is how your marriage functions because it's not like oh he's so empathetic and listens and we're a team here and there with everything else and there's one thing he's just not he just turned that's usually not the case usually there's a pattern in who you are as a person that's pretty consistent through all the situations in life and so my fear taylor is that there's probably more of a marriage issue here

than the fact that he's just not paying his student loans, which is an issue too. So yeah, I think there's a lot of work to be done, I think, on the marriage side of this because a husband that just blows off what a wife says or a wife that just blows off what a husband says, there's obviously not a level of respect and empathy and humility there. And those are some ingredients that you need to have a lifelong healthy relationship. And so I would work on that aspect.

And then out of that, hopefully comes. That's a case for counseling. And if I'm in your shoes in the effort to keep my family safe financially, I'm just going to reach in and pay the bill. I'm going to reach in. I'm going to say, what's the login? And I'm going to pay the bill.

And if that causes a problem, again, to Rachel's point. The fact that he's functioning, like he doesn't even owe the money. He doesn't even pay on it. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Yep. It's the same thing.

Like if the mortgage wasn't being paid and you knew the money was there, pay the mortgage. Like don't wait for somebody to do something that you can do to keep the family safe financially and then deal with everything else in counseling that's that's jay's take i love it all right up next we have emily in el paso hey emily welcome to the show hello how are you hi we're doing well how can we help? I want some advice on how I can start tackling my student loans. I'm still in school and I have about two years left and I want to try to get ahead of it even though I don't have much income so that I'm not really drowning in it when I get

out. How old are you? Are you a traditional student? I'm 25. I'm about to start my third year of medical school. Okay. And how much income are you bringing in? My income is really just allowance that I get from my parents. It's $400 a month and I realize I don't need to be spending that much on food every month. So what's your plan? Take half of it and start paying student loan payments? Yeah, I thought I could probably manage to do two or three hundred dollars of it per month and put that towards my loans. So this is medical school, Emily. So how much how much do you owe now being two years in? I currently owe a little over twenty three thousand. OK, that's not that's not as bad.

Wow. OK, how are you doing that? Is it the school you chose, or do you have scholarships? Do you have a situation that you're getting helped? It's a combination. I am doing school in-state to where I live, so the tuition's already a little lower, and my school pays for about half on scholarships. So in general, I usually only need to take like 10 or 12 grand out per year. I think on the conservative end, I'll probably need to do the same for the next two years and probably double what I've taken out now. Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would flip it because these student loans aren't due yet. I would focus on piling up

cash for the coming semesters so that you're not continuing to take out more debt. And if possible, I don't listen. I know medical students. It's crazy. If there's any way to pick up any extra work that you can on your off days, on the weekends, whatever it is, I would do that. And I would see, okay see okay like can I stack up a thousand dollars a month is there any way where I can find that and make that happen because if you can do that then you're well on your way to taking care of the next 10 that it's did you say 10,000 per year or per semester per year okay then yeah that I love that goal try to get a thousand bucks a month and then you're not taking on any more debt and then when you graduate you can tackle

this 23,000 my guess is they're subsidized so they're not gonna gain interest while you're in school so emily um they're on they're unsubsidized well that sucks but i still would not change the course of action uh what what do you think you'll be about I shouldn't worry about them right now. No, I'd worry about not accumulating more debt. When you graduate, Emily, what type of work are you going into? Do you know how much, on average, people are making in that field? So I want to go into surgery, but in general, a first-year resident, regardless of specialty, I think that the general average in Texas is around $50,000 a year. Okay, and then what's your earnings beyond that?

Like, what do you see your potential being in, you know, year one, two, three, four, five? It goes up a little bit per year, but it depends. I might be able to find better numbers. I'm not really sure. No, no, you're fine. I was just trying to get a gauge because the goal would be, like Jade said,

if you can do something where you work weekends, even some nights throughout the week, and bring in $1,000 a month, that would be huge to cash flow the next two years, which means you'd have $23,000 left to pay. And at that rate, with what you're making, I mean, it could take two years at that rate with what you're making i mean it it you know it could take two years at that point but if you work extra above your normal salary you can get it paid off even faster right um so i think it's just it's this idea of looking at the math looking at the numbers

and making a plan knowing when you graduate you're probably still going to be living like a college student while you get these paid off yeah I don't mind that yes no that's great well I appreciate you even thinking about it too in mid-school because for a lot of people it's once they graduate and the bills start coming that they're finally like oh my gosh how do I how do I do this how do I navigate this so she's probably seeing that balance grow because the interest is accumulating and she's probably like oh crap yes yes so so yeah what jade said though i think is is wise is to be able to do as much as you can to cash flow that next semester but man this is a great story though for all of you that want to go to medical

school because usually when we get these calls law school medical school on the show it's it's six figures yeah in debt and so listening to somebody that stayed in state picked a school possibly because she got so much scholarship yeah scholarship on that side that half is getting paid for which is just incredible so so again all these um you know advanced degrees to go into these fields that are so needed and we're so thankful for right medical? Medical degrees and other things. There's still options out there. And so for those of you that may be in that situation, be creative in the way you think about this. I think the hard thing is people fall into the normalcy

of, well, it's just medical school. There's nothing else I can do. I'm gonna go to whatever school, pay it, figure it out when I graduate. And so I was talking to someone like Emily is so encouraging because she made a couple of calls right there and turn some things and, and it was great. Yeah. It's possible where there is a will, there's a way clearly. Yes. When there is a will, there is a way. And those student loans, Jay,

for you and Sam, that was a big chunk of your debt. So I'm like, it's the one that just, I feel like people, it gets dragged. And I think people think that they can just forget about it and, oh, I'll just, you know, put it on the shelf and it won't bother me. I'm like, yes, it will bother you and it will continue to accumulate. And even if your wallet's not feeling it, because I know a lot of people are on zero payments because of the administration, your body feels it. Yeah. Make no mistake. As John Deloney would say, your body keeps the score and your body knows when you're not safe and debt puts you in an unsafe position. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Let's go to Anne in Pittsburgh. Hi, Anne. Welcome to the show. Hi. How are you today? Hi, we are doing well. How can we help? Well, I hope you can help. That's my question. Is there any hope for our situation? We have been married 19 years. We're in our 50s. We have one special needs son. We're both self-employed. I have a business from home, which has been very helpful with our son and being home when he gets off the bus, all that kind of stuff. My husband has always controlled 99% of the finances. I don't have, my name is not on the bank account.

My name, I don't have a login. His business and our home bills are combined on the same account, which I know probably should not be that way. We have a home loan of about $243,000. If sold, it might be worth $700,000. The big problem I came to realize is that our credit cards are at $209,000. We have a car loan for $21,000., some of the credit cards are his business only, but as far as I'm aware, you know, in certain States, your, your debt is your debt and half and half debt and assets. So I guess I'm trying to figure out, I can't get through to him. Um, he just blows up when I try to say, Hey, let's try a budget. Hey, here's all the credit cards on an Excel spreadsheet that shows all the percentages.

Like, it's just kind of banging my head on a wall. And I don't know how to protect myself, how to protect my son. The only good news is that I do have a 401k that is in my name from before we were married. And then we also have, I have a little bit of savings. And then he does have a life insurance policy. God forbid anything happens. But he's not well mentally. And he's been, you know, threatening a lot of things.

And I thought I should try and get some advice. Are you thinking about walking away from this? At this point, I really can't right now. I can't right now. My business is here on the property. And if I would leave, the other thing is I would be taking my autistic child away from the only home he knows that he's had his whole life, his dogs, his everything that's comfort to him.

And your husband's not open. Is he? I'm guessing based on what you said. I think he knows that he's in the toilet. I think he realizes. I mean, he's paying the minimums on the credit card. That's it. And where's the revenue of your business going in?

What account is that going into? It's going in with everything else. I mean, I don't make much. Last year, he had it written down here. Last year. Hey, do you suspect that there could be IRS debt as well? Because when you tell me that all the business bills and all the personal bills and everything's together, that sounds like a mess. I don't. I think he's pretty OCD about keeping track of stuff.

Rockier's gross income was $233,000, but then by the time we got to the bottom of the income, the income is $26,000 once he takes off depreciation, vehicles, all that kind of stuff. What type of business does he have? He's an electrical contractor. Off depreciation, vehicles, all that kind of stuff. What type of business does he have? He's an electrical contractor. So he's making $26,000 a year. He's paying himself $26,000. Technically, yeah.

And it's just him. He doesn't have employees. And what about you? Just myself. And what do you bring in? What's your payment from your business? I'm lucky if I bring $10,000 or less. So you guys combined are living off of $36,000 and you've got the $21,000 in car debt and how much in credit cards $206,000? $209,000. $209,000. Okay. And is there anything else that you think might be out there,

not including the mortgage? No. And of that $209,000, $40,000 is just for his business. But of course, I'm pretty sure I'm liable for that as well. But everything else... And so is he using these credit cards to keep you guys afloat just month to month? Yes. And when you said he's not mentally well,

do you mind going into a little bit more detail on that? I mean, there's increased alcohol. You can tell there's depression. We'll even mention the debt. We'll mention, my wife told me that we're this much in debt, and, you know, she must be full of it. I don't believe it. And he'll say this in front of his best friends, and it's like, oh, my God.

Now he's, like, sharing it with folks. But I think he he's embarrassed I think he doesn't know what to do yeah I do too yeah so I think you know and it just sounds like um my first protection is for you and the fact that you don't have any access to anything and I mean there could be there could be a whole other life he's living right I? I mean, on different levels, on different scales, financially not. I'm like, you have no clue what's really going on because the money is kind of the paper trail to a degree on life and being able to see that. And you have no access to that, which is a hard line I draw. You have to be able to have access and have everything visual that you see. I mean, it's one thing if you're like, oh my gosh, she's a spender. I'm a saver. I don't know what

to do. It's a whole other thing. And you cross another line into another level of seriousness when you don't have the ability to access your money. So this is's a it's a more serious weight there that I that I hold now in this conversation that that creates more ultimatums. And I hear you say, like, I can't leave all of that. And but what I would do is is that there's other ultimatums in this marriage that has to change because you don't you're not safe at that point. Right. Right. how did you find out about the 209 just curious um did he tell you or you discovered it oh he did not tell me i just i discovered it i started going through his files okay i made like the biggest excel spreadsheet you'd ever want to see in your life and And I just, you know, tried talking to him

and, you know, we were okay there for a while. Oh, I'm paying it down. I'm paying it down. And then, you know, once a year I'd pull these files again and get everything sorted. And I did it again this year. And I said, this is, he's to the point now where everything is minimum. Yeah. For me, this falls into what falls into what I would call a level of financial abuse and infidelity because he's keeping everything on his side. He's making moves without sharing them with you. And they're at the detriment to you and your family and your son. And I would push back on the fact that there's nowhere for you to go. There's always an option. But I can guarantee you this, it is not going to be a

comfortable option. There's going to be no piece of it that feels comfortable or easy or, you know what I'm saying? So I do think that you have to give yourself an ultimatum and you need to say, all right, what am I going to do? What are my limits? What are my boundaries? And what are my boundaries and what is my time frame for me to and and what what is an indicator that this is uh moving forward or that it's staying the same like does that make sense you have to have something very real and very measurable for this situation yeah yeah right right so whether that's whether that's i'm going to offer counseling and I'm going to give him 60 days to agree to it, or I'm going to ask him for these account passwords and I'm going to ask him for, you know, complete transparency. And I'm going to give him 45 days to wrestle with that and get to

that point. You've just got to make it very clear, write it down on paper. If you have a friend, get a friend. If you have a pastor, find a pastor, but you need somebody who knows. Does anybody else know this is going on besides us two girls on the radio? Yes. Okay. A few, a few friends, close friends and family members. And what are they suggesting? What are they saying since they know the situation even more? And they know him and they know he's not, he's not right he's yeah you know i married a 37 year old man who was fed in his ways and unfortunately he is a collector he and that's where the money has gone he collects things and um to the point i said can we sell some stuff so is he hoarding too like are you in that sort of a situation no okay no it's just enormous collections of things that are really our only hope these

assets that could help us get out from under this but um he's not willing to touch i'm not selling any of my stuff he says like oh great because years ago he did he would sell a stamp collection or he would sell another collection so you're just seeing a deterioration so and i would i would i would bring in a third party in that and and again and it's it's so hard to say this on this side of the desk because now and we you know we have to go but you're going to be living this life but not only is it a secret but you're also behind you're trying to live on thirty four thousand dollars a year as well so there's there's two ends of this that are really urgent. So I'm so sorry.

I hope this was helpful to give him some ultimatums, but I so, so appreciate the call. This is The Ramsey Show. I'll see you next time.