The Ramsey Show - App - Which Investments Should I Pick for My 401(k)? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: September 6, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, and host of the extremely popular Dr. John Deloney podcast, is my guest today, my co-host today,

and we're glad to have him here to answer your questions about your life, your money, your family, your money, your boundaries and relationships. And we'll talk with you about what's going on. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jeff is with us in Dallas to start off this hour. Hi, Jeff. How are you?

I'm doing great. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up? Yeah, quick question. I'm fairly new to investing. I did work with an ELP when I started my new job last August to select my options. And when I look at the options now, I'm just curious. Like I see, like, for example, in the large cap options they have, I see other options in the one he told me to select that have a similar rate of return, but the share prices are drastically different. So should I also be considering their share prices or just focus strictly on the rate of return?

Share price means nothing. Ah, okay. It's not got, it has nothing to do with anything. It's just the number of, you know, people that they have in the mutual fund divided into that. I mean, and your share price times your number of units equals your total. So, I mean, you can have a $10 share price, $100 share price. It doesn't affect, you know, what you're getting and what you end up with. You're going to have the same. If both of them had an 11.6 rate of return, they're both going to have the exact same results.

Got it. So, in other words, if you buy a share of stock for $100 or you buy a share of stock for $50 and you put $10,000 in either one and they both go up 11.6%, it's the $10,000 that's going up, not the share. Got it. Okay. The total of the 10 gives you the returns. So, you're putting the same amount and you're buying less units with a higher share price,

more units with a lower share price, but it's really just irrelevant. So you're fine. I mean, as long as you're in good mutual funds that are giving you good, strong rates of return, similar to what the stock market's doing, you're going to become wealthy if you keep following the baby steps and working your way all the way out. John, the good news is that just like when you're dealing with a mental health situation, with a money situation, with a marriage situation, with a career situation with Ken Coleman, these areas of life, most people don't succeed in an area of life just because they freaking don't pay attention. It's not because they do the wrong thing as much as they just don't do anything. They do nothing.

Right. They just sit there. They just go, oh, well, you know, I wonder what's on TV tonight. My marriage is in the other room burning down, you know. Or my kids are in the other room. Yeah, my kids are in the other room doing heroin, but I wonder what's on TV tonight. I've got everybody a screen. Everybody's quiet.

Yeah. That means we're winning. Right. And that's what they do with the money. It's just, you know, nothing's getting repoed, so nothing's burning down, so I'm okay. The difference is that guy is paying attention. At a granular level. At a very granular level.

At a nerd level. I started to turn and ask you, hey, Dave, I know we're in front of a couple of ten million people or so, but what's he talking about? But you explained it, so that's good. I've not even gotten that granular level. Yeah, but I mean, if you pull up your mutual fund statement, it says that each share that you own is worth X, and you own Y number of shares, and X times Y is the amount of money you have in there.

So if it's $10 and you own 1,000 shares, then you have $10,000, right? And that's all it is. But the share is your portion of this mutual fund that's been mutually funded. And so if you're in a mutual fund that's got $2 billion in it, your share is a share of that. If it's in a mutual fund that's got $500 million in it500 million in it, you know, a fourth of that, then your share is a share of that. But the rate of return is the rate of return is the rate of return.

The rate of return is the rate of return. It's based on the dollars you have invested total, not the share price. But the good news about a guy asking, you know, it's easy to make fun and go, that's real nerdy, who gives a crap, you know. No, he's paying attention. But the good news is he's paying attention. He's paying attention. And people who are successful at any area of their life are the people that pay

attention okay so i've got a theory you want to reward people that pay attention i've got a theory i want to know what you've been doing for a lot longer than i have what why don't people pay attention why do they pick a thing that they just choose to tune out on i don't know my theory is in is my personal lazy it's intellectual laziness for me it was denial it was fear okay denial or yeah some kind of a a repressing mechanism of some kind yeah when it came i don't want to face it my marriage or parenting or my my physical fitness or my mental i could go in and be directly involved in, to some degree, the route that would take, right? When it comes to finance, to the stock market, it's almost like a presidential election. I can do my right thing, and then you've got to step back and let the thing go, right?

And there's a fear component for it for me. Yeah, yeah. I mean, buying a house, you know, you can't control what house prices are going to do. They are, right? But you can go, well, you know, for the last 75 years, you know, here's what they've done, and I'm pretty comfortable with that, so I'm going to buy a house, and it's probably going to work out for me. You know, you don't have to have this big, you know, predictive model of some kind on

your house price. Well, you can just say with your marriage, right? Like, most people say if I ask this question, there's going to be the occasional person that doesn't like that question, but for me, it's always come down to fear, but I don't know what it is across the board with folks. Yeah, can be laziness yeah it can be i'm just you know why don't you want me to work out more i'm too lazy i don't i'm not going to do it once you talk to your kids and i don't want to really want us i mean why do anybody run unless somebody's chasing them you know exactly um you know that you have that kelly we're all getting ready for the

marathon i was running the half marathon. A bunch of us were running a few years ago, and she said it's in the Bible. What's that? That you don't run. Only the wicked flee when no one is chasing. Only the wicked flee when no one is chasing. So all of you runners there, Kelly's got your back, literally. So, but, you know, the, so fear, it can be fear.

I can be, I'm overwhelmed. I don't know what to do. And so I get paralysis of the analysis during the headlights or whatever. Or paralysis of no analysis. It can be laziness. And the problem is in America that you can be half butt and have a really good life. You can just coast because everyone's taking care of everything for you. You can have a really good life in America being a half butt.

In fact, the good life is now injecting fractals is the nerd way, is creating things that are going to be hard for you so that you can grow. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I mean, you've got to be intentional about discomfort. Muscles aren't growing unless they're sore. That's right. You know,

and lives aren't growing unless you bump your knee. My relationships aren't growing unless I'm not having hard conversations. Unless I'm going, wait a minute, I don't think, yeah. But this leaning into that, there's a success principle to that in any area of your life. And this intentionality, the power of intentionality.

You become what you think about, Earl Nightingale said. Jesus said, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. And when you have nothing in your brain, you're going to become nothing. And there's plenty of people who are happy to take your money and just plop things in your brain for you, right? Well, or, yeah, or pat you on the head and tell you how good you're doing when you really suck. You know what I'm saying? And take your money doing that. Exactly.

Oh, aren't you cute? I'll take your subscription fee. You're not cute. That's ugly. That's ugly. There's nothing cute doing that. Exactly. Oh, aren't you cute? I'll take your subscription fee. You're not cute. That's ugly. That's ugly. There's nothing cute about that. Really. I'm kind of cute, Dave.

Yeah. Well. And humble. My mom says I am. And humble. Well, your mom, she's obligated. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members

carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones as we talk about your life and your money. The Dr. John Deloney Show with new episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on YouTube.

It covers everything from anxiety to boundary issues to crazy in-laws to just wild mental health things. It's a really's really really helpful and entertaining show a lot of fun i listen to it all the time not only because i'm the ceo and it's my job to make sure stuff going out of here is good but i just enjoy it i appreciate that it's very good so be sure you can tune in there if you'd like to be on that show, you can call him at 844-693-3291. You can email, and Kelly and the team will get back to you at askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. Askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. Or you can talk to him right now, 888-825-5225.

Diane is in California. Hi, Diane. How are you? Oh, I'm fantastic, Dave. What a great time to be able to talk to you. Thank you for helping me. My pleasure. How can we help?

Well, we've owned our boutique real estate and property management business for over 40 years. I'm 68. My wife is 72. We're getting ready to sell it to a wonderful young man that I've trained for the last six years. We've talked to a business broker, and he shared with us, you take the average net profit for the last four years, which is $96,000 a year for us. You multiply it two times five, two and a half times, that gives us $240,000. And then we add back in our discretionary income of $84,000 a year. That gives us a value of $325,000. My question, Dave, is we're pulling out $7,000 a month from this business. We're retired pretty much.

We live four hours away from the business. And I can't take that $325 and create $7,000 a month if I sell it to this wonderful young man. So my question is, am I missing something? No, you're not missing it. You know, I don't disagree with your business broker much. The formula I use is a little bit more simplistic. Now, the 96, is that after both of you, wait a minute, you're not operating it today.

Someone else is operating it. Yeah, we have a broker manager. You're absentee owners. You do no work in the business yes right the only thing we do is do about do a pnl statement every month on it yeah okay well that would be as if i bought it i would have someone run it for me right i live in tennessee i'm not gonna day to day be involved in that so an investor would buy it after all. See, sometimes when someone's selling their own business, they work in the business, and we have to take their salary out of the net profit, too, what it would take to replace the manager.

But in your case, you've already got a manager, so we don't have to take that out. So basically, you're making $100,000 a year, $96,000 a year profit. And I would say if the buyer wants to make 25% on their money, it is worth four times that much. If the buyer wants to make 20% on their money, it's worth five times that much. So generally a small business goes in a four to five cap of net profits. And so I'm a little bit higher than your broker, but not much.

He's got you at a high of about 400 with his ad back. And my four times puts you at about 400. So that is a fairly reasonable valuation process that the business broker used there. He used 325 as the value. But he added back the 85. No, the 325. but he added back the 85 now the 325 the 325 includes the 85 and also i think that's low young yeah and the young business broker we're paying him 60 000 a year as a salary to run it but you're still after that you're after that you're netting 96 after you paid him, right? Correct.

Correct. Okay. So that business is generating an absentee investor $96,000. So let's call it $100,000. So if I bought it for $400,000 and I got $100,000 back, I would be making 25% on my money. You see how that works? Yes. Yes. And if I bought it for $500,000, I'd be making 20% on my money. You see how that works? Yes. And if I bought it for $500, I'd be making 20% on my money.

And you want to make over 20% buying a small business because it's a higher risk investment than, say, a mutual fund that might pay you 10% or 12%. Absolutely. So usually a small business is going to go in the 25-20 range. So I think it's worth north of $400. Now, how can he pay you? Let's go back to solving that. Have you hired the business broker yet?

Are you obligated to that person yet? We're not obligated per legality, but he's the one who's been running it. I trained him. Oh, no, no, no, no. Who gave you the valuation process? Oh, the business broker. We have not signed a contract, nothing. Okay, so he just said this is how you do it.

Okay, good. Because you're going to sell it to your guy is the goal, and you don't need a broker to do that. You already got your buyer. Right, but we don't. He doesn't have any money,, but we don't sell businesses. Yeah, but no, no, no, no, no. He doesn't have any money.

Your guy that's running it is who you want to sell it to, right? Right. Okay, so you don't need a broker to do that because you've already got your buyer. That's true, but we've never sold a business before. Well, you just need an attorney to help you do the asset transaction is all by california law that's and that's nowhere near as much as paying a business broker a commission for making his sale that he didn't make right he already agreed to do it for five percent but you're that's a little stiff yeah because he didn't do anything except the transaction okay so you pay

an attorney to do the transaction get get your business attorney, talk to them about that. Now, here's a way we can structure it. What if the young man that is running it, you're paying him $60,000 now. Correct. What if he agreed to say, once I'm the owner, I'm going to continue to live on 60, and all profits in excess of that go to you guys, the sellers, until we reach 400. Then it would take him four years to pay you out.

That's an idea, some kind of an installment sale like that however we thought i think you can come up with the cash okay but then the question comes back to you i can't make on 400 even i can't make 100 on my 400 that's right yeah but you've got less risk and you're out of the business why are you selling it if it's so great because we were old no you're not no you're not uh 20 years from now you'll be old uh okay you know dave we had a good run we've owned it for over 40 years yeah here's the thing you want a little less risk and a little less hassle in the golden years. You're going to make less return for that. Exactly.

What can you make if you invest $400? You can make about $40 a year. Yeah. You're going to get $40 a year, but it's a lock. Compared to what you have now lock. You got almost zero. Compared to what you have now, you got almost zero hassle and zero risk. And no more responsibility. Yeah, exactly. Hassle factor.

Yeah. Yes, you got it. You have to keep your finger on the pulse of that, and that requires muscle tension in your hand. And they got our pride is already y'all are fun but jake because of you were debt free yeah i didn't pay it off you did honey y'all are awesome hey yeah go i i i think you accept $400 and work out a deal with the kid, let him buy you out, and you're just going to make less on your money.

And the reason is that you have less risk and less hassle. Yeah. And you clarified it, Dave. Thanks a million. Thanks for calling in. That's how it's done. I love it. I don't know when you were going to enter that conversation, but I...

That's my favorite spectator sport right there. What a duo. Oh, my gosh. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're with us. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Michael and Mindy are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, we're great. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're just north of Seattle in Everett, Washington. Very fun. And here to do a debt-free scream,. Where do you guys live? We're just north of Seattle in Everett, Washington. Very fun. And here to do a debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? $1,100,000.

Oh, wow. And how long did this take? About eight years. Goodness gracious. And your range of income during that time? Started at about $150,000 and went to $350,000-ish, depending on the year. Goodness gracious. What do you all do for a living?

I sell real estate. I'm a high school English teacher. Awesomeness. Okay. Wow. What in the world? What kind of... Did you pay off your house?

Yeah. We paid off our home, as well as four rental properties. Wow! Looking at weird people. Woo-hoo! Congratulations. And we met at the break, so you're a real estate ELP, right? Yep.

You're one of our endorsed local providers. Excellent. I love it. Well done. Well done. Well done. Congratulations. So what in the world put you on this journey eight years ago? Well, we tried some other methods. We learned about leveraged investing, so buying real estate and getting mortgages and things of that nature, which was all well and good until, well, they had a problem. And we had one particular property we called the Pasco Fiasco, and we ended up in about $60,000 of debt after two floods and somebody set it on fire. Oh, my gosh. And at that point, when the bank wouldn't loan us any money anymore, we decided we needed to try something different.

Our insurance person actually said, listen, before you call us about this property again, please make sure that no walls are standing. Don't call us again other than that. You can almost feel him winking at you through the phone. That's right. That's right. He says, don't say us again other other than that you can almost feel him winking at you through the phone that's right that's right he says don't say i said this if it's on fire throw gas oh my gosh wow but you pushed through eight years yep yeah we we i think we found you shortly after that and went through the financial peace program, and it was like, oh, okay, we got to get serious about this. We got to dig out of this hole.

Okay. Whoopsie-doo. So it was really- You sold that property, I assume. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that was the relief, right? There was this huge relief when that one went.

Absolutely. Okay. And that got rid of a bunch of the debt? How much of the debt was that? That wasn't very much of the debt at all. That was only about $100, went. Absolutely. Okay. And that got rid of a bunch of the debt? How much of the debt was that? That wasn't very much of the debt at all. That was only about $100,000. Oh, okay. That's the only one we sold.

And we had enough income. We could have sold them off and, you know, whatever to do it faster. But we had enough income and ability, and we wanted to have the rentals long-term. We figured we may as well just pay them off. And I did the math and figured it wouldn't actually take us all that long. So we did the long haul. Wow. Eight years, though. That's real. Yeahing along plunking along one at a time they go away and then the house goes away or your house goes away and then one of them goes away at whatever order basically debt snowballed our all of our mortgages so we paid

the smallest one first just like if it were a regular debt and then just paid through the whole thing yeah so what was it like navigating this journey, making the income you were making, yet not living the life that you would think somebody making a quarter of a million dollars should be living? For us, it's pretty normal. We're not big, extravagant people. We don't need a ton of stuff. I mean, we have a lot of kids, so we had a lot of kid expenses. But other than that, I mean, we're okay to live on just the regular stuff. And four homes.

Yeah. And for us, it's more long-term planning and just kind of paying stuff off and putting ourselves in a place to be able to have a ton of fun in retirement and live like no one else. Wow. So what do you think? I mean, this is obviously a huge number, 1.1 million. We don't usually get that. I know. But it's also eight years.

Yep. So it's quite a slog so what what is the difference in that and just knocking off some credit card debt in one year or something there's a lot of difference emotionally and everything else but what do you think the secret was that enabled you to stay with it that long and plow through a number that big i i i mean i think that part of it is it became a lifestyle right right? There's a part of the beginning where it's like, this is hard. This is really hard because it's new. It's a new kind of way of doing things.

We've got to be serious about this. And now it's kind of just the way we do things. And it's just the way we expect it to be. And hopefully we're giving that to our kids to say, this is how you handle money. This is the expectation going forward. Yeah. Wow. And we took a little bit.

I mean, once we paid, because we borrowed. I mean, when we had those issues and we took out that $60,000, I mean, we borrowed against our car that had been paid off. We took out a personal loan. We borrowed from friends. I mean, I had my mom go to the bank and borrow money for me so I could pay her back because they wouldn't loan me any more money. So we were really serious during that first time.

I mean, I was putting stuff back at the grocery store, doing all the really hard stuff. After we paid off all the non-mortgage debt, at that point, we got a little bit looser. We would start to go on vacations and do things like that. So we could have done it faster, but we didn't want to kill ourselves. And so we gave ourselves a little bit of freedom and had some fun in the meantime. Well, you're supposed to at this stage. Yeah, rewards. This baby step is not intense.

This baby step is intentionality. Yeah. Right. And so you're supposed to have a rhythm to it. And so very well done, you guys. How does it feel to own that much stuff completely debt-free? It feels good. It feels real good.

It's not bad, Dave. It's not bad at all. But I did buy, we bought our first one, our first investment cash. All right. And so we were super excited about that. And they rented it out. We're going to get our first check in like a month. So we're super excited.

It feels way better. Wished I had done that in the beginning. The way it should be, right? Yeah. These things cash flow when they don't have debt on them. Right. They make money. It's nice.

I got a bunch of them. I love it. And then you can buy another one with all that money and another one with all that money it just it snowballs in the right direction then yep so well done you guys so very proud of you who were your biggest cheerleaders probably each other yeah honestly you weren't telling a lot of people this it's a big long run not a ton there's not a lot of people that can relate when you're at a certain level um and you know things of that nature so i mean we mostly just kind of talked about it we did our you know monthly meetings and you know things of that with our with our um uh budgets and everything else under the sun and just kind of kept going and i'd say early on it was you you were the cheerleader right you were you know speaking

into that um because we were listening and doing the program. So we really appreciate all the things that you were helped with. We're so proud of you guys. You're heroes, man. You did it. Thank you. So well done. So very well done.

Well, congratulations. And you brought the kiddos with you. What are their names and ages? So we have Christopher, who's 17. Caleb and Macy are 15. Maya is 8. And Aria is 7. All right. Very cool.

Very cool. We got a whole choir out here. I love it. It's great, too. They look awesome. All right. Very fun. All right, Michael and Mindy, 1.1 million paid off in eight years.

We got a copy of Legacy Journey for you you because that's definitely the phase you're in is leaving a legacy and an extra copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away and pay it forward. So thank you guys for making the trip all the way. We're so proud of you and so honored to endorse you as ELPs as well. Thank you.

So thank you guys so much. Michael and Mindy, $1.1 million paid off in eight years, $150 to $350 income. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

I love it! You guys are amazing. So, so very proud of you. Excellent job. Way to go. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. And real estate people in particular are, I mean, I grew up in a real estate household.

I'm a real estate guy. I mean, I've had my license since I was 18. We, in particular, don't't that genre of human doesn't think much about debt they don't worry about debt and so for them to flip that switch and go i'm getting out that's a big deal yeah that's a big deal man i mean you just gotta and and then they go through a huge pile of it and they got all this property now making money yeah now this is gonna it's gonna flip it's raining on them so the right way. It's going to flip so fast and go the other direction so quickly.

It's going to be absolutely amazing. Yeah, very, very powerful. That is wonderful stuff. I'm looking at these five smiling kids. Man. That's the legacy

right there, man. Changing a family tree. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. We'll be right back. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Always use the magic word, the promo promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal all right today's question comes from steve in kansas steve asks my wife and i discuss our budget every two weeks but it never goes where it's supposed to go she always finds something

to spend money on but when i want to buy something she shuts me down i also cashed out a mutual fund and it had seventy thousand dollars in it to pay an inheritance, from an inheritance to pay down our mortgage, but she's dragging her feet on paying it off. More of a statement than a question. Yeah. You know, whenever I hear this, Dave, this is never about a budget for me. I always think this is about relational power, right? Either she's self-soothing with this or he's writing this in,

trying to, you know, feeling like the hero a little bit, but this is the only place she's got in this marriage, the only place she can be heard, or I guess somebody can just be a jerk. But whenever somebody says we talk about this stuff a lot, man, you can talk circles around things. But if you're not talking towards something, it's a waste of a conversation, right? The illusion about communication is that it has actually happened.

Right. We said a lot of words and we parted ways. What I run into with this is kind of the nerd or free spirit thing. I'll give you a guess. I'm going to read some mail here. Read between the lines. I'm going to guess and say Steve is the nerd or free spirit thing i'll give you a guess i'm gonna read some mail here read between the lines i'm gonna guess and say steve is the nerd he is a uh he's got the spreadsheets he's a detailed guy right and she is the free spirit and to steve when you write it down and we all agree to it in his mind it was chiseled in stone by God, and he brought it back from Mount Sinai.

Right. You know, and he's like, God says this, it's in stone. This is not only a contract. You will be struck by lightning if you violate the contract. Right. A wee bit pharisaical, right? A wee bit uptight. Right.

Her, on the other hand, she's still functioning at a freaking eight-year-old level, and just diddy-bops into life and diddy-bops out and looks at her husband's thing and says, yeah, baby, let's do it, and then wanders off and doesn't anymore make a contract than fly to the moon. And little does she know, she just signed up with a contract with Big Boy Contract. But a budget is a – It should be. It's directional, right? It should be a contract.

Right. But it should not be an uptight contract. And the problem, Steve, is she does not view it the way you view it. She doesn't think she's breaking her word, and you think that she's a liar. Right. And it becomes about who's got the strength here. Yeah. In his language, I also cashed out this mutual fund.

Now I'm taking what, she's going to take that power, I'm going to take this one. No. Man, you are, the only thing that happens here is you end up with bodies. What you've got to do

is you have to raise the level of the language to communicate and go, okay, honey, when I say this, it means to me we are pinky swear,

spit shake, we are, you know, cutting our little hand here put a little blood on there we're signing an oath in blood that this is by god what we're gonna do and i want to ask her what is it and if you sign this if you would say yes i agree to this that's to me what you are doing so when you don't do these things, honey, it makes me feel like you are lying. And she needs to go, whoa, I had no idea I was signing up for that trip. And then I want to

ask her, why are you unwilling or unable to lock arms with this guy? And stick to what you said you were going to do. Because she's not even in the same ballpark. She just drove off, did whatever the crap she wanted to do. But look at his answer. So they're both violating. But what amounts to is they didn't have the same language to say this is a contract.

And they don't have the same destinations where they're headed. Yeah. But, well, they both looked at it, and they both said, yeah, let's go to Florida. But he meant in the morning, and she meant next year. Or she meant it'll work out. Yeah. Or we'll get there eventually. We'll get there.

And his response. Why aren't you in the car? Why aren't you in the car? His response. Well, then I want to buy something. Why aren't you in the car? I have the car packed. Why aren't you in the car? His response. Well, then I want to buy something. Yeah. No, that's just hit back. That's just childish hit back.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's just an overall lack of maturity here. In other words, this inheritance thing is an emotional thing to him. And it should be. That's a valid thing. If he says, I'm going to take my mama's money and put it on the mortgage, that's a big deal to me.

So when I put this money in the account, and by the way, Steve, why didn't you just write the freaking check? Why are you waiting on her to do it? But anyway, aside from that, it strayed into the mortgage. You know, it's like, but she's dragging her feet. Why is she dragging her feet? Just write the dadgum check. You said you were going to do it.

Or did we have a conversation about, hey, we got this inheritance. Let's talk through what we're gonna do with it we all agreed yeah right did we have that conversation or did did steve with his math and his uh excel sheets create his all universe here i i i gotta tell you the reason i know this stuff is exactly the mistakes i made it's because i'm the spreadsheet guy i'm the decisive guy and to me by god when you say you're going to do something, that's just like you said you were going to do it. So why aren't you doing it? I can't stand it. We're the reverse in my house.

And Sharon's like, well, I didn't really mean I was going to sell one of the kids. I mean, and now you've got one of the kids up for sale. Well, at $70,000, we're going to play with five. And so $65,000 is great, right? Well, I sort of meant it, but i didn't exactly mean it you know and so we've had to go oh look okay we are completely agreeing on this date this amount this is the thing and you get a vote and i get a vote do you feel heard yes i feel heard then by god you're going to stick to your word okay i mean we've had to have these type of real clear words and our visceral words

in our communication early on to get where we're locked in because now she i mean to me once you say it's not if for nerds if it's on the spreadsheet it's law it's just that's law and for free spirits like me it's it's an approximation yeah we'll get there yeah that's a good general concept i like that you have a spreadsheet we're all gonna be 50 someday right yeah we're gonna get there yeah it's a it's he made a contract and she didn't sign it actually she signed it in his mind but she didn't know it that's my point that's what i'm saying and i think that's a great exercise for every married couple to say we've got couple to say, we've got to be in agreement, we've got to be in unity, and you're going to use different languages.

Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, has got tons of stuff in there about how your spouse is viewing this conversation about money and how you're viewing the conversation about money. And it comes from all these different angles, know yourself, know your money, and it's just so powerful. Yeah. And as the free spirit, there's this, I always come back to this thing about control. Yeah.

This power, this, what do you mean I can't? I'm in this house and I'm in, and that's me being immature. That's what it comes down to. No, I mean, because the flow of money is about control. But what you have to fight to do in this communication is uh relinquish half of the control like sharon and i at this moment are in this dispute over a large purchase and we talked about it before i walked out of the house this morning okay because we have a rule when when we're not both on the page we don't do it until we both page, we don't do it. Until we both get there, we don't do it. Whether it's a large gift, philanthropy we're giving,

whether it's a major move down here at the office with a bunch of money or something like that, or whether it's a purchase, and in this case it's a purchase of something we're looking at. But she's like, well, I think you got the money. What's wrong with you? You just need to do this. And I'm like, nope, not ready. This is not right. It doesn't feel right.

It's just not the same one. So you both have a veto card. You both can play the Trump card if you've ever played, you know, hand of cards where you can play a Trump card. I'm not talking about Donald. I'm talking about the game, okay? I'm not talking about the Joker. I'm talking about a Trump card. So, you know, you both have a vote that can call it.

And so what we do is it forces us to do nothing until we can find the thing that we both can agree to. Where you align. And that means you have patience, intentionality, and a ton of grace. We value the unity more than we value the thing. How long did that take to get to? Ten years. A minute. Ten years, 10 years yeah after going broke you know first thing we did is try to kill each other when we're going broke right like we're talking about with a couple on that debt-free screen but you know that this is vital stuff right here y'all because all the data points that we have in our millionaire study that ramsey

did gives you very clear guidelines that very few people become millionaires without spousal participation and spousal unity. You've got to be aligned. In spite of these communication breakdowns. You just don't do it. You do it because you force these conversations at a real

healthy level. That's why Dr. John Deloney is here, because he can talk about this stuff intelligently. This is The Ramsey Show. Dave here. We just launched a brand new listener survey. We want to know what you think about the show. You'll be entered to win a $100 Amazon gift card. No purchase necessary.

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