The Ramsey Show - App - Why Debt Isn't a High Priority When Expecting a Baby (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 30, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Nick is starting off this hour for us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Hi, Nick. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My wife and I are in baby steps four, five, and six, and we've been through FPU and just immersed in your message and your guidance since January, so we're really loving the plan. Cool. My question today is, we've rolled some of her old employer plans into an IRA. She went to a part-time work status as an RN. And the website that we invested in for the IRA is pretty complex. It's more of a full-blown investor website. And I know you've said, you know, never invest in things you don't understand.

And I'm having a little difficulty in trying to navigate the investment mix there. And I fully understand my employee playing here where I work, and I'm trying to figure out a way that we can do this 15% as a household, even though we're two working professionals. But I'm struggling with her IRA contributions and things like that. I'm just looking for some guidance there. Okay. Well, you know, we use SmartVestor Pros that we endorse, and there are people in your area that, you know, align with the plan and have the heart of a teacher.

And if you're having trouble with managing the IRA where it is, you can just roll it to one of those guys or gals, and you'll have somebody in your corner to teach you and show you what you're doing, why you're doing it, and also help you set up your new IRAs and kids' college funds and other stuff as well going forward for your Baby Step 4 and 5 stuff. So just click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. It'll bring down the list of SmartVestor pros. You've probably heard me talk about that before. Yep.

But if you're not getting what you want out of this website you chose to do the investing through, all you've got to do is roll it to someone where you can get some more of concierge-type treatment where somebody's there. And that is the beauty. There is some interesting data out there, Nick, that shows that even someone like me who knows a lot about it, we all have a tendency to stay invested in downtimes and to stay invested in things that are working well, even if they're slow right now. When we have someone in our corner showing us the data and teaching us and, in a sense, talking us off the ledge and so forth, when you don't have someone to give you that data and to coach you through the process, people's returns on their retirement accounts tend to go way down.

And that's why we found a large percentage. It was 79% of the millionaires in our everyday millionaire study said that they were magic or the guy that you know handled that you know my smart vestor pro that handles my personal stuff is is he that much smarter than me no he just deals with this stuff every day all day it's all he does it's his specialization and i don't work on my own cars anymore either because when i raise the hood it's a computer i have to reboot the stupid thing i don't even know how to work it uh if it was an old car i'd know how to turn a wrench on it but um i don't work on my own cars i don't diy stuff i don't work on my own computers i don't know how and i bring in an expert um i don't pull my own teeth um you know i have an expert do that um not that i've had any pulled yet thank you lord but anyway i wouldn't pull my own and i got a perfectly good

pair of pliers in the garage i could probably pull it off but that doesn't mean it's a good idea and so diying some things make sense but investments are and real estate are not two of those things. There's tons of actual research that shows you make more when a pro is in your corner. So that's why we're very comfortable. We feel like it's a very consistent message, having the network of smart investor pros out there for you folks to pick from. Jonathan's with us in San Francisco. Hi, Jonathan. Welcome to the Dave in San Francisco. Hi, Jonathan.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Anthony. Sir, how are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, sir, I'm calling today with a quick question my wife and I have. So just briefly, she's got an opportunity to work closer to home, and we're trying to just tackle the situation,

seeing what's better fit for our new family. I don't understand. What's the problem? So right now, financially speaking, she's bringing about $75,000 a year, and with this new opportunity that we have, she'd more than likely take a pay cut of anywhere from $60,000 to $65,000 a year. She currently commutes about an hour and a half daily in this one direction. What does she do? So she's a financial manager.

And there's no financial managers closer than an hour and a half away? Why in the world would you take a 65? That's a 90% pay cut. So anywhere from between 60 and 65,000 for the nearest one in town. The nearest one in town. So for the position she works. Okay, I'm so confused. Did you say she makes $75,000 now and she'd be making $65,000 at the new place?

Yes. Oh, I thought you meant she got a pay cut of 65 000 it was going to go down to 12 000 i'm like good lord okay was she working at burger king i didn't know what was going on okay i'm catching i'm catching on now so a ten thousand dollar pay cut but is she in a position where she's going to grow a book of business and her pay will come back over time so there is a potential for things like bonuses and you know raises throughout the years if she stays with the company. We're just more concerned with the budgeting aspect. Obviously, it's going to mess with the numbers right now.

Not that much. You're probably spending almost the difference in an hour-and-a-half drive every day. Yeah, we calculated roughly about $3,000 a year just in fuel. That's not even considering maintenance and things like that. Yeah, and destruction of value of the car. Exactly. This car has gone down like a rock. I mean, it's costing you $10,000 for her to commute an hour and a half.

Just from a mechanic's standpoint, being a fellow car lover like yourself, I hate seeing it going down that road every day. So I'm just trying to see what we can possibly do and what your two cents are in regards to it. I would take the job. I would take the job. Because I think cash flow might tighten up a little bit more, but overall, over the period of a year or two or three, the transition from one car to another over time and that kind of thing you're you're not losing money over a period of five

years now your cash flow man you see what i'm saying because you're not experiencing cash flow bite from your car going down in value from an hour and a half commute but it is going down in value faster than it will be if she lives close to home. Plus, you'll have your wife back. Oh, yes, I'm definitely taking this job. I'm for a 10K pay cut, and you've got the opportunity to work and do other stuff, and, you know, you could pick up an extra job occasionally and fill in a whole lot of this. And her income will come up because she's going to be a better person. She's not living in a car three hours a day.

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It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thanks for being with us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Drew is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Drew.

Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Yeah. Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Yeah, so I am trying to figure out if the side hustle idea that I have is reasonable or not. My wife and I have been on Baby Step 2 for about two and a half years.

We had some trouble getting into traction for a while because we got married partly through college and started then, and we had to finance this cross-country move at the end of college that had some medical issues along the way, and we're finally getting some good traction for a few months. At this point, we still want to speed it up, but I'm a pastor, my wife is a denier, and those aren't really, we're kind of at the cap of our income for where we are right now, and we enjoy what we're doing, we're not looking to change, so we're trying to find some kind of a side hustle to help us speed this up, and the idea I have comes from a project I worked on not long back.

We had a family piano that was around since 1895, was no longer usable as an instrument, so I converted it with fairly minimal input financially into a fairly nice desk. And now I'm wondering, is that something I can keep going and find other old, used pianos people are just getting rid of and turn that into furniture? But it's such an odd item that I'm trying to figure out how do I evaluate the market and figure out if this is something people will actually buy, and then how do I figure out how to get this out to buyers. What'd you do with the other one?

The other one is currently in my office. Okay. People comment on it, like it, they want one? Yeah, I've gotten a lot of comments on it. People stop by my office just to take a look at it because they've heard some word in the church. Yeah. How long would it take you to do one, do another one? It probably takes me, depending on what I did with it, probably 30 to 40 hours of work, so three to four weeks.

Okay. And at another side hustle, in three to four weeks, you'd make like a couple thousand bucks usually, right? Right. And according to my estimates, and this is one of the things I've tried to figure out is it's reasonable, according to my estimates, the channel I've made, I could sell for two to three thousand. Okay.

And where do you get that number? That's based on research I've done and conversations I've had with people who do other kinds of custom woodworking, although this is a little bit kind of a side step from that. But it's based on just the materials and the labor and such things like that. Okay. All right. Well, the good news is you don't have to decide to do 100 of them. All you've got to do is decide to do one.

That's true. So go do one and sell it. Improve your plan. If you can spend 30 hours and you can make $2,000 and you love doing it, yeah, that's an awesome side hustle. And that means you need to do 12 a year. Right? Okay. and uh that means you need to do 12 a year right okay and if you can find a market for 12 a year to sell them uh you don't want to you don't want 12 of them in your basement though so we're going to do one and uh while you're working on it you uh you cat you catalog the progress and uh sketch out what it's going to look like in the future and put pictures of yours

in there and you put all this on a website and uh you know you invite people to watch you redo this hoping that one of them is the buyer okay that makes sense update it with daily pictures or whatever on your instagram account or on your Facebook account or wherever you've got some followers. And did I understand that you are a musician at your church? I'm not actively a musician at my church. I am a musician, but currently I'm a pastor there. Oh, I see.

Okay. Well, my guess is that the people that would be interested in this as a desk have an interest in music. Agreed? Yeah, I think that's fair. So where are we going to find those? Worship pastors? You know, jump on a worship pastor website and put out some of these, you know, put out, hey, follow me on Instagram, watch what I'm doing with this piano, turning it into a desk. And other musicians, other areas, any contacts you've got there in any music genre in the Cleveland area? Cleveland's got a pretty good music scene, obviously, with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is there, right?

And so, you know, that kind of stuff, you can, you know, just poke around in some of these areas. But the trick is you want to open up the door to where enough people know that this is going on that you can get it sold by the time you finish it. And now you've started to prove it. And then after you've sold three of them as you finish them, you're going to get better at doing the work. But you're also going to get better at finding the customer and digging up and keeping this going. But, you know, you can try one. And if you can't sell it, you just got an extra desk in the basement until you find somebody to buy the thing.

And you go to a different side hustle because there's no market. You can't find anybody interested, you know. But if you've got people, you know, again, putting up a picture of yours and say, hey, because I did this and everybody liked it, I'm doing this one. I'm going to not sell my family one, but I'm going to sell this one and just put it out there. And, you know, you can poke around on Etsy, on eBay, on doesn't cost anything on any of these things, Instagram, Facebook, and just let people out there, you know, search and

find this thing and track your progress. And then hopefully you'll have a buyer for when you're done. Go ahead and put a price on it, on the completed product. Thanks for the call. Regina is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Regina. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, good afternoon.

Thank you for having me. Sure. How can I help? Hi. I have a question. My children are looking to put my children in a therapy program. It is an alternative treatment for hyperactive behavior, and it is kind of expensive. Based on my income, my husband and I are just kind of struggling with doing what's right for our children and obviously trying to stay within a budget and mindful.

We're trying to work our way through baby step number two. How much debt do you guys have? About $70,000. Okay. On what? We owe $55,000 on our house and about $20,000 on our car. Oh, okay. So not much other than that.

And what's your household income? $55,000. Okay. And what does this therapy cost? About $5,000 a child. Okay. And how many children? Two, at least two.

Okay. One time or ongoing? Well, it's a long term. It depends on how they progress. But my understanding, it's going to be about six months at least. Okay. $5,000 a year? One time?

We haven't quite got down to all the processes of it. My one son we haven't even had tested yet. I'm suspicious that he has celiac disease. So before we enroll him in this for hyperactivity, we need to get his health figured out. Absolutely. Because his hyperactivity, if he's got that, could be nutrition-based. Well, and that's exactly where I just feel like our kids, like, I love my children dearly. Oh, we all do, darling.

Just trying to get to the bottom of all of their health problems has exhausted our savings and every dime that we have. And it's just very hard when... Well, the thing you want to do is, you know, number one, this is all going to happen at one time. Yes. It's going to be over time, and so you don't need $10,000 today. If you were convinced, and you're not quite convinced yet that this is the only possible thing or that this is the right timing with child number two, you're already convinced it's not the right timing for that so um you know that gives you some wiggle room um and uh and overall the overarching issues give you a lot of reason to get your finances cleaned up so that you'll have the cash flow to

do this so um you're not working outside the home he's bringing in 55 is that what's happening okay yes i'd probably sell my twenty thousand dollar car well we just bought it about a year ago that's when we started i don't care okay it's a twenty thousand dollar problem you got a ten thousand dollar problem they're your kids okay it's more important okay it's in the way it's financially, mathematically from an arithmetic standpoint in the way of you providing this treatment that you believe is right yeah that's probably what I'm doing

and then work side hustles and figure out what staging and timelines we're looking at and of course confirm medically that this is the right way to go this is the right way to go this is the d of Ramsey Solutions, Matt and Michelle are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi.

Hi, Dave. Welcome, welcome. Where are you from? Columbus, Ohio. And here to do a debt-free scream. Absolutely. Love it. How much have you paid off?

$261,000. Wow. How long did that take? It was a journey. It was five years. All right. And your range of income did that take? It was a journey. It was five years. All right. And your range of income during that time? So when we started, we were around $150,000, and we've pretty much doubled that as of last year.

All right. Nice income. What do you guys do for a living? We are real estate agents in the Columbus, Ohio market. Ah, okay. And ELPs for the Dave Ramsey Show. Awesome. That awesome for you very cool well that's a double dip awesome and you're killing it wow you're doing very well

amazing great job so what kind of debt was this 261 000 220 of it was our mortgage and then the rest was credit cards uh car loan uh a 401k loan, which you're not supposed to do, right? Yeah. All right. So I'm looking at weird people. Yes. Real estate agents with a paid-for house. Yes, absolutely.

That's a touchdown. Yes. That doesn't happen. Yes. That's awesome. Way to go, guys. Very cool. Okay, so how long have you been ELPs?

This is our first year doing it, Dave. Okay, excellent. Good. So what happened five years ago that put you on this journey? Well, I've always been pretty conservative. I used to work in retail for about 20 years, and I've had my position eliminated three times. So living paycheck to paycheck has always been something that I knew I didn't want to do. When we got serious five years ago, I started looking around for Christian financial advice,

and of course your name came up. So we jumped in with the program, started listening to your podcast and reading your book, and from there. Part of it, too, was he looked at how much we were paying in interest for everything that we had. Yeah, I'm a numbers guy, Dave, so I broke it down,

and every month between our mortgage, credit cards, all that stuff, $800 a month was going towards interest, which you're just throwing that money away. For me, struggling to tithe like I wanted to, but yet I have $800 a month to throw away for nothing. That got me fired up, and that got me intense on the program

and got us fired up about the program and then watching that eight hundred dollars a month dwindle down to zero per month yeah that's fun that's an extra ten thousand dollars a year bonus yeah yeah absolutely and there's no value for that eight hundred dollars every month i get nothing in return for the eight hundred dollars that was going out of our household every month. Chris Hogan says interest paid as a penalty interest received as a gift. Yep. That's good. Very good, you guys.

Very fun. So when people, man, you pay off your house. What's your house worth? We're real estate agents. We're pretty in tune with it. About $350. Okay. Excellent.

Man, you guys are amazing. Congratulations. And you're right. The house does feel different now that it's paid off. We paid it off in November of last year, and just the walls and just walking around the carpet feels better. This is my floor now. It's my doorknob, but that's my hinge.

I like it. It's a different feeling. I'm telling you. It's my stove. Yes. I like it. Yeah. Not 10% of it.

Not anything. Great. The whole thing. yeah there's some there's a and when you're in a business like you guys are in straight commission um obviously you don't worry about income you've been making a good income for a good period of time in that business um but when you're in that kind of a business something happens when you don't have to make money you end up making more. Right.

Absolutely. That's how we've doubled our income is not living paycheck to paycheck. We've been able to make career decisions based on what we wanted to do and what we were good at and not what we needed to do in order to pay a bill or to make a payment. A lot of people work a job that the only reason they work that job is they've got to pay debt. Yep. And they're just stuck. The borrower is slave to job is they've got to pay debt. Yep. And they're just stuck. The borrower is slave to the lender, and slaves don't have choices. Yep.

And so your career is going to continue to blossom. Well, way to go, guys. Awesomeness. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Have a plan. Like you say, just have a monthly budget and stay focused. You have to get angry or upset or focused on one thing to just keep you going because it's not easy. That's been the toughest thing is just staying focused, staying on track over five years.

It's not a microwave plan. It's a crockpot plan. Five years is a long time to be on a program and do something. So, Michelle, he says he's the number guy. He's the guy with the plan. This is definitely the nerd. You're definitely the free spirit. Am I right? Yeah. Okay. so what does the free spirit say what's the key to getting out

of debt for you just stick on it i mean if something's going to happen it is that things happen as you go along the path but you got to get right back in it and keep going yeah you're going to get bumped and knocked as you go along it's not a it's not a straight line yeah not a straight line just stay a straight line. Just stay with it. Stay with it. The persistence part is what got it for you. Exactly.

Good, good. Okay, so who were your all's biggest cheerleaders? Honestly, just each other. I mean, we are family supportive. Our friends are supportive. But we didn't necessarily put it out there that we were doing this. It's just kind of something that we did together and we focused on so we're not overly you know aside from the business aspect of it we're not overly public people with what we're doing so um yeah i mean they were super excited

obviously when they found out that we paid off our house um and and that kind of thing but like shocked yeah exactly exactly so well well done very well done we got a copy of chris It's like you won the lottery or something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So. Well, well done. Very well done. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. Awesome. Because that's definitely the track you're on. That's going to be the next chapter in your story for sure.

We're almost there. This fabulous income and a paid for $350,000 house. Yeah, you got a real head start. Very cool. Well, way to go, you guys. And, and thanks for serving our listeners as ELPs. You're welcome. Matt and Michelle. Oh, and your daughter's with you. Yes, she is.

Oh, is she going to help you with the screen? I don't think so. No. Oh, okay. She's going to cheer from over there. Okay. Her name is what? Caitlin.

All right. Caitlin cheering from over there. That works. Matt and Michelle and Caitlin from Columbus, Ohio, $261,000 paid off in five years. That's their house and everything. They're weird people. Yeah, that's it, baby. Making them $150,000 up to $300,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! three two one we're dead free i love it and the elp team drops balloons on them from above excellent very good job you guys very good job that's how it's done wow how fun is that you guys listen you can do this you can do this it's very doable and you gotta decide what you're willing to do to get there that's simple britney is a member of the ramsey baby steps community which is our private Facebook group, the largest Facebook group for Ramsey discussions, and you're welcome to join. Dave, I'm a new listener. I've heard you talk about putting the baby steps on hold when you're pregnant.

Can you explain to me why? Yes. The health of the mother and the health of the baby is more important than the little amount of debt you will pay off during that nine months you will put all of the money that you would have paid on the debt in savings during that time and when baby and mommy come home from the hospital and everybody's healthy and there is no issues that we need money for, then you take the same exact amount of money you would have paid on the debt during that period of time and you pay it on the debt. And the only thing lost is a tiny bit of interest during that nine-month period of time.

But what you get in return is a pile of cash, which gives you some peace in case there's a little bit of a hiccup and you need some kind of money. And I'd rather have a pile of $10,000 than be $10,000 less in debt during that nine months, as an example. And if there's some kind of a little thing, then you don't have a problem. I'm not suggesting you go redecorate the nursery with the money. I'm just saying if there was a bit of an emergency of some kind around the pregnancy, a bit of a difficulty, and you needed some money for the

health of the mom or the child, you'd have it. And if you paid it down the debt, you don't have it. And guess what? That's going to be new debt if that happened. So that's why we do that. Good question, Brittany. And thanks for being a member of the Ramsey Baby Steps community. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Theo is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Theo. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. Better than I deserve right now. Very cool. So I have a question for you. I went through Baby Steps 1, 2, and 3, and I don't know what to do with my money anymore. So I'm investing in my Roth IRA as well as my 401K, my company's provider plan.

I'm not sure what else I should be doing. Okay. Well, that's Baby Step 4 is 15% of your income going into retirement. Is that much going into retirement? Yes. Okay. Are you single? Yes.

Do you own a home? No. Okay. All right. Do you intend to? I'm not sure yet. I don't know if I want to own a home. Ever?

Yeah. I don't know. I haven't even thought about that. Okay. How old are you? 24. What do you make? Like $98,000.

Good for you. Way to go. What do you do? Thank you. What do you do? I'm a CPA at a company called Adobe, a company called Home Security and Home Automation. Cool. Good for you.

All right. Well, if I were in your shoes, basically, money is good for three things. It's good for enjoying, it's good for investing for the future, and it's good for generosity. Okay. a lot of margin, and so you ought to be doing all three of those things. I think leaving any one of those things out leaves people in jeopardy for their future and for who they're becoming. So I'd make sure I had a steady rhythm of generosity, a steady rhythm of investing. You're putting 15% aside for that, and I'd be enjoying some of this money. You're 24. You're making bank, and you live in an expensive area, but you still would be able to enjoy some of this money you're 24 you're making bank um and you live in an expensive area but um but

the you know you still would be able to enjoy some of it uh as far as additional investing goes you could simply start throwing some money in something like a no load s&p 500 fund just to build up to build up a future house fund because I suspect that the next stages of your life that you'll be, you know, like by the time you're 35, you know, you'll probably own a property. Probably have an interest in owning something. You don't have to today. There's not an emergency. But over the scope of your life from now until 90 years old, owning versus renting will come out ahead for you, way ahead. And so you do want to be in an ownership position at some point,

but there's no panic to do it today or next year or anything like that. So you can just start chunking some money aside, and if you looked up and you had $400,000 or $500,000 in that account, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Okay. Would you recommend to, like, I don't know, like, get a financial advisor for, like, investing? I don't know anything about investing either. Okay.

Yeah, we have folks that we send people to called SmartVestor Pros. We're not in the investment business, but they agree with our philosophies of investing and our philosophies of handling money and the baby steps and all of that kind of a thing so you're going to get consistent advice with what you hear here on the air and if you just click smart vestor at Dave Ramsey calm you can sit down with a it'll drop down a list of the smart vestor pros in your area and you can select one and you pick and then you sit down and uh they'll start to coach you as you go along and you're in a position to really build some serious wealth because you're starting early you're smart and you make really good money

gray is with us in canada hi gray welcome to the dave ramsey show hi thanks for having me sure how can i help yeah so I have a question. So back in 2013, I lost my dad and shortly after, I made the huge mistake of co-signing with my mom and my brother for a medical school for my brother. Over the next five to six years, I was always giving money to my family because I was single, always giving money, never prioritized my needs

or what I felt during the situation. So I got married two years ago, and, of course, priorities shifted, and I had a child. And, you know, we started planning for our family, our future, and two months ago we bought our home. We're making decent income. So now my family keeps demanding for money, still demanding for money, even when I've told them I don't have much because I just came off mat leave a year ago and I'm still trying to get off finances.

Why do they think they have a right to your money? Exactly. No, it wasn't a passive-aggressive statement. I'm curious. Whose parents or brother or sister think they have a right to your money to demand money from you? That's so strange. It is strange, and it's led to mean calling. And I've distanced myself because I feel very toxic, and I have chosen to prioritize my family, prioritize my needs.

And I believe my brother, who is 29, rounding off his medical school, based on the loan that I co-signed on him, he's still demanding lots of money because he mismanaged funds. I mean, back then I was 19. My dad died. I was very vulnerable. I didn't understand what co-signing really meant, but I did it because I felt it was out of a good place to help them out. And now I'm left with monthly payments that they're not keeping their own side of the bargain. So I want to maintain a good credit.

How much of this medical debt do you owe? It was $223,000 that we co-signed in Canada, in Canada, and he went to school in the States. It was not how we planned it. It was meant to be less than that, but he kept it. So today you owe $220,000 on your brother's medical school? All of us. We have it shared, my brother, myself, and my mom. Now I know much better. Now I understand what it means to co-sign,

what the assumed responsibility really is. And I have to bear the consequences of decisions I made, but they keep asking, and it's caused lots of insults, and I've distanced myself, but I don't know why they feel that they have, that I have to give everything I have. Did he get out of med school? We got a loan from the bank. No, did he graduate from med school?

Oh, yeah. Is he a doctor? No, he isn't. Why? Because he's owing the school extra funds, and I can't do anything about it. So he owes the school money so they won't give him the diploma exactly and now he wants me to remit more money and i'm explaining him now i have different priorities i cannot um even if he doesn't become a doctor this year he

can try next year but he has to work you know he has to work his 29 20 30 everything has been given to him every time but he hasn't really had that sense of responsibility yeah to really work well here's the problem okay your but your family's toxic and they have boundary issues without a doubt um they they um there's all kinds of just relational violations here in this. It's just so sad to listen to. So when people think they have a right to things that are over inside your boundaries and then you put up a boundary and say no, they almost always react with anger. People who feel entitled and you tell them that they're not, they're almost always reacted with anger people people who feel entitled and you tell them that they're not they're almost always reacted with anger and so that's what happens when you put up a boundary it's just

standard process so um you're this is not going to get better it's going to get worse uh and there's probably going to be a huge blow up at some point but that none of that means that you need to pay the money you don't i wouldn't pay a dime on this stuff i would let it sit over there and rot um there's no reason that you should have been on this loan and there's no reason that you should pay it except that you now are legally obligated and so you may have to go back and clean up something there at some point to get it off of your family, your immediate family, not your brother and your mother.

But this is silliness that they get to demand money from you. So you just need to be real quiet and real calm and real firm and just say, listen, I love you and I'm just not going to be paying on this. And I'm not going to be sending you guys money. And I'll send you a copy of Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries. It is the consummate book on this subject and he sold tens of millions of copies of this book because every family, every relationship almost always has some kind of a boundary thing in it.

And just learning to navigate that helps all of us with our relational IQ, our ability to relate to others in a healthy way. And it's called growing up, and it sounds like your mom never did. So hold on, I'll send you a copy of that book and help you out. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. You can find more great content on our YouTube channel. Catch the most watched Dave Rantz, debt-free screams, and the very popular Everyday Millionaire segment. Go to the Dave Rantz Show YouTube channel and click subscribe.