The Ramsey Show - App - Why Is It So Hard To Hire Right Now? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "Is our business ready to hire an apprentice?" "How do I get my team to have a sense of ownership?" "Some of our high producers are a bad culture fit" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance at $3,000! https://bit.ly/TRSgvwy Shop our bestsellers during the $10 Sale! https://bit.ly/TRS10Sale Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. He's the host of the Ramsey Network Ken Coleman Show, where he talks to folks about their job, about their career, about how to make more money every day,

how to get out of a toxic work environment every day. And we're here to help you today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for joining us. Ashley's going to start this hour off in Salem, Oregon. Hi, Ashley. How are you? Hi, Dave.

I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I own a plumbing business, and it is a debt-free business. And at this point, we are trying to decide when our business is ready to bring on an apprentice or hire a journeyman to help move our business forward. And what kind of business did you say it is?

Plumbing. Plumbing. Okay. So you're going to hire someone into the junior position and work their skill level up by starting as an attorneyman or apprentice? Correct. Okay.

An apprentice is about a four-year program here in Oregon, and then an attorneyman would be someone who has completed the program. How quickly do they actually start producing work? In about two years is when you're able to work. No, no, no, no, no no you're going to put them to work day one yes yes how quickly before they actually do some work that has value to your company regardless of their status as licensed or journeyman or apprentice or whatever they're going to start putting pipes in right now. Right. Yes. So I would say depending on how well they receive the information,

you know, within 90 days we're going to know if we're going to be probably ready to put them into the apprenticeship program based on their performances. Okay. So I guess what I'm looking for is anytime that a business is hiring someone, we have to make more on the work that they do than they cost us if we don't we go out of business and so when you hire someone for 18 an hour they have to produce something that creates more than 18 an hour for you in savings or in revenue produced

or something something has to happen that that makes you worth that and um as soon as they start self-sustaining meaning they're producing more savings or revenue than they cost um then then you're it's no longer a problem it's now it's now a blessing mathematically to the business does that make sense yes that does make sense. And I watched within the apprenticeship program as my husband did it. And has he trained others that were in the company he was at, you know, in that two years when they start sending them off to do jobs and then the journeymen come in and they're checking their work. So their actual revenue is definitely increased. Yeah. But if your husband can do twice as much work because he's got a sidekick yes

you're making money on the kid day one okay are you turning away work right now because your husband can't get to it we are turning away a little bit of work um you know you're coming out of the winter season so it slows down during that time and then heading towards summers and we're going to start picking up even more. If you can do more work with the kid than without the kid, he's starting to pay for himself. That's right. Okay.

That's what I'm talking about. This is not about apprenticeship. This is not about journeymen. This is not about licensing. This is not about that. It's do they create more production than they cost, and at that point they're free. Okay.

But until then, they're a cost. Does that make sense? Right. So if your husband, because he's got a sidekick, can bring in an extra $60,000 a year and you're paying the kid $40,000, you're making money as soon as you start that process, regardless of his title. Mm-hmm. Is that logical? Yes, that does make sense.

And some of our foundation in that is, like, do we need to have X amount saved up before we hire this person as well? You need to have enough until they start making you more than they cost you. So if it's going to be 90 days before they add any value, then you need 90 days worth of their income set aside as extra returned earnings okay if it's going to be if it's going to be six months before they're valuable then you need six months of their income set aside because they're basically a cash drain until they're not and that that's what

you're figuring out how much of a cash drain are they before they become a cash blessing hey let me ask you this actually how hard a time are y'all having finding these people um so when we first started discussing it we've had like two high schoolers that were interested because my husband had talked to um some young young adults which you'd like to be able to train kids kind of coming out of high school, early 20s. Good. And so it's an area that he is passionate about getting into and working with. So I don't think it'll be terribly hard to find,

but it could take a little bit to find the right click, because not everyone wants to be out digging a ditch in the rain. Yeah, it's like hard work and stuff. Yeah. Ashley actually let me give you a little bit advice really quick on that for your husband um that's true but you got to find the kids that do want to be working with their hands having a lot of autonomy and serving by fixing and if you can show them what that path looks like in one year two years three years and say look if you come in and do that hard work now i'm telling you it's going to pay off big time you've got to sell that and that's on him that's on you all to get that kid who wants to do the type of work but

hasn't been taught how to do hard work by their parents let me tell you who's never unemployed a plumber that's a fact isn't that the truth we are always gonna need a plumber. That's a fact. Isn't that the truth? We are always going to need a plumber. That's exactly right. Always. So, I mean, car detailer, you might not need. You probably can do that. But you're going to be a plumber. That's right.

The trades are always going to pay off. Hey, Mike Rowe is coming to town with me next week, and we are going to do with Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney, Nicholas Eberstadt, and Pastor Craig Groeschel, and Michael Easter, who wrote the book Comfort Crisis. We're all doing an event here at the Ramsey Event Center called America's Labor Crisis. Hiring in this current environment is crazy. The live stream is free. You can watch this. If you're running a small business, we're going to talk about hiring in this environment.

We're going to talk about the labor crisis. We're going to talk about the 7.2 million males, 25, 54, that are not even looking for work. They're sitting in their mother's basement. And a great turn of irony playing call of duty so yeah we're going to talk about all this and we're going to talk about how you business folks like in ashley's situation what you could do like ken just gave her some good insight what you're looking for and how to hire in this environment and at ramsey solutions we're hiring right now other people are firing we're still hiring and in 30 years we've never laid off a soul for financial reasons we fired people that

misbehaved for people that didn't weren't any good at their business but but we've never laid somebody off because we had a financial strain and we're hiring and believe me we're way more than just a radio show around this place there's almost 11 1,100 of us in this building. So check out the open rolls here at ramseysolutions.com slash careers. And you programmers out there, we don't work 80 hours. We go home at 530. And we don't ask you. Oh, and we don't work from home. We work for work. We work from work. We have a building. We all come together. We like each other. Yeah, ramseysolutions.com slash careers. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down.

And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also

help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today again next Thursday evening May the 4th May the 4th be with you right yes be easy to remember uh Mike Rowe and I will be hosting five top thought leaders including Mr. Ken Coleman, on the subject of work, careers, work ethic,

education crisis. There's a labor crisis in America. We have 4 million people quitting a month still. And we have about 5 million jobs in deficit right now, more jobs than workers. And we have 7.2 million males, I won't call them men, that are 25 to than workers and we have 7.2 million males i won't call them men that are 25 to 54 years old that are sitting at home not even looking for work they're not even in the unemployment statistics we don't know what they're doing except when you survey them according to nicholas eberstadt one of the people that'll be on with us on uh next thursday night uh they are

spending somewhere from five to seven hours a day on screens, which means they're either watching pornography or they are playing Call of Duty. So I don't know what they're doing, but apparently not producing anything. Yeah. So except trouble for all of us. So there you go.

And CBS News coming out with, when it comes to quiet quitters, highly paid men lead the exodus. Ken, you've been talking about this a lot on your show, The Ken Coleman Show. Yeah, so we've got college-educated men who are making good money who are doing this quiet quitting, this phenomenon that just basically says, I'm only going to do the bare minimum. I'm not going to go above and beyond. I'm not going to plug into a team. I'm only going to do what is expected of me.

I'm going to show up. And show up. And it's really troubling. Collect a paycheck. Yeah. And so what's happening is, is you've got men, and this speaks to a lot about what we talk about here when you hear us use phrases like work that matters. Every human being, Dave, longs to make a contribution. And when you have a job where you feel like, I'm not really driven towards a goal, I don't have a missional, purposeful connection to the work or to the organization. And this is what happens.

And you've got a lot of skillful men who are basically stealing from organizations. They are just getting by. They're making it through to Friday afternoon to happy hour and drinking their face off because there's no meaning. There's no drive. And so that's one part of this male problem. The other part is, what you just were touching on, is the 7 plus million men that are not working.

They're 25 to 54. They're working able. That means they can work, but they're not. And the reason is because they've left the workforce because of status. The data from these economists are showing us these men are not making the money or they don't have the professional status. So think of a title or a job that maybe they desired and the money with it.

And so instead of getting back up on the horse and getting after it, they've literally taken their toys and they've gone home. I remember when I was a kid, we played with a bunch of guys in the neighborhood. You don't have like, maybe you're playing cops and robbers or cowboys and whatever. And you've got this whole thing played out.

And then somebody gets mad and they go home and it ruins the game. And that's exactly what is happening. It is a childish response. I'm not getting what I expected out of life. And so I'm going to go home. And here's the worst part. That's right. And family members and friends are supporting these men. And the government. And the part. That's right. And family members and friends are supporting these men.

And the government. And the government. That's right. But they can't completely, you know, live this way if we've got family members and friends who say, you know what, it's time for you to grow up. I understand you got your feelings hurt. I understand that you were done wrong in some cases. But you need to go be productive. And so that's the crisis we're dealing with where we have more jobs available than people

who are actually looking for work you know and there's a sadness that goes with this yeah um it's you get a little bit disgusted with these people in a sense when you start talking about them but then when you really dig into who they are number one a whole bunch of those folks, Fauci told them they weren't essential. That's correct. And the rest of the culture stood up and said, you're not essential. How would you like to be told you're not essential? That's right. Makes me excited about going back.

Yeah. And I was actually having a discussion with one of the top politicians in the middle of all of that here in tennessee a discussion and um telling him that we were opening back up here at ramsey before they were comfortable with us doing that because the data that we had said that we were perfectly safe and turns out we were right um so we opened up and everybody dave ramsey's trying to kill his employees you remember all that right oh yeah and so uh which is kind of oxymoronic if i kill off all my employees i'm not gonna get the work done that's kind of dumb it's been a lot of money getting these employees i'm not gonna kill them all um maybe one or two but no i'm kidding i mean we didn't kill anybody everybody lived it's okay

so uh you know and he said he said well i thought y'all could i thought y'all were still at work and i said what do you mean he goes well i well, I just assumed you all were essential. And I said, well, how do you know if you're essential? And this is a top. Oh, yeah. Local leader, yeah. The top, yeah. And how do you know you're essential?

And he goes, I'm not sure. I think you just decide you are. Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Because, I mean, nobody ever really got the definition of essential, but we did tell an entire generation of waiters and waitresses to go home because you're not essential. We told an entire generation of hotel maids to go home, you're not essential. We told people that cut hair to go home, you're not essential. And boy, did some of you get to looking ragged after that.

Because apparently they were essential, but not essential and boy did some of you get to looking ragged after that um because apparently they were essential but not essential to me that's right people like you i remember you were like you got a haircut you needed a haircut you started calling me helmet head it was it hurt my feelings well you did look like a helmet i know it was a covet head you know something dave there's something else too for decades and mike rowe is going to be co-hosting with dave dave and mike are good friends i've had the opportunity to interview Mike multiple times for our events here and Mike told us a story years ago of being in his high school with his guidance counselor and above his guidance counselor's head on the wall was a poster that was very popular and it essentially showed split screen if you will on one side is a college grad with a diploma and a dentine ting smile and he was happy

and on the other side was a guy in overalls with a wrench that could kill a Clydesdale and he's got you know dirt and grease all over him and he's sad and that was the message that was marketed to us and so to add to what Dave is saying working people aren't happy well you're a loser if you're if you're in the trades that's correct and nowadays a diesel mechanic and a bulldozer operator make more than some of you lawyers that's fact but let's think about these five these seven million men who've taken their ball and they've gone home because we don't want to just attack them because it is said but here's what they've heard. For decades, we have told people that if you can't get a degree, you're less than. And so this has played into the psychology that they wake up one day.

Now I can't do any jobs that I'm proud of that my mommy can brag about when she's at this whatever, at the nail salon. What's your son do? I can't tell you. I'm ashamed of it. My son's a doctor. He's $800 million in debt, and he can't breathe, and he hates being a doctor, but he's a doctor. And my son's a garbage man. He's worth $8 million net worth.

But see, society has told these men that they're losers. By the way, high probability, if you collect garbage, you're going to be a multimillionaire. It's a big money-making machine they're about as they're about as necessary as plumbers that's right so but see dave we've told these men they're losers and now they believe it and women in these same things it's not a that's correct that's right and so the data on this that eberstadt has with me talking about on thursday night by the way you guys sign up for that free live stream you You go to RamseySolutions.com. You can watch this.

It's going to be about a two-hour presentation. It's some pretty heady stuff. There's a lot of psychology involved. There's a lot of economics involved. There's some moral, ethical questions that are involved. And Mike Rowe and I are not afraid to attack those. I'm a little more rough and tumble than he is. Mike's a little more sophisticated in how he approaches these things and a little more gentle with the touch yes he's at the smooth velvety me i'm gonna throw a spear through your face i mean it's just we're gonna

fix this crap so i mean this just has to happen it's unbelievable i can't stand it it makes me so yeah it's not just a boomer thing because Because here's the thing. Of the seven million guys sitting at home, they're not doing well. No. Their suicide rate is through the roof. Yes, anxiety, depression. Their anxiety numbers are medicated. The number of them that are medicated is through the roof. The depression numbers, the despair statistics on these guys is absolutely horrible.

We have done them no favors by teaching them that it's okay not to work. There is great dignity in work. There is great agency in work. Getting a callus is a sign of respecting yourself, whether the callus is on your brain because you faced some stress and had perseverance and grit and walked through it, or whether the call calluses on your hand because you run a bulldozer all day and you actually caused crap to happen there is great dignity in work and we got to get back to that we're going to talk about that thursday night at length don't miss it

go to ramsey solutions.com watch the free live stream. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Reminding you, America's labor crisis with Mike Rowe, Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney, and other thought leaders and experts on America's labor situation right now. A free live stream next Thursday night, May the 4th. We want you to join us. It is a free thing. You can just sign up for it. You've got to go to RamseySolutions.com,

and we'll send you the link and get you all set up. There will be about 1,000 folks here on site at the Ramsey Event Center with Mike and I, and we're going to be talking about this. It's going to be a healthy conversation. Mike and I have enjoyed discussing this offline too much because we're both a little bit into this idea that work ethic matters, that the trades matter, that people are essential, and that they are their best versions of themselves when they are actually working.

Thomas is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Thomas, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for having me. Certainly. How can I help? So I work at a small manufacturing company. We've got about 45 employees total. I've got a team of seven, and I'd love some insight on how to help my team see just a bigger picture of we're all in the company trying to get a single goal, not our department

versus their department. We want to pitch in when we've got a slow period, let's go help another department instead of having the, you know, not my job syndrome. I'm not going over there. Wow. What is the singular vision? Can you describe it, how you would tell those seven folks? If I was sitting there watching you talk about it? In a nutshell, it's ship units, ship breakers. That's what we're trying to do. We're a startup.

We've had about three years going, and we're still trying to just get in a rhythm of we need to get product out the door that's quality, that's on time, that meets customer spec, and that's our goal. How many times has this happened, this question you described, where a couple or is it the whole team of seven that are griping about pitching in and helping another team? Fairly unified. I've got one guy who's pretty consistently just quietly like, all right, I'm going to go over here and do what I can. But most everybody is very comfortable with this is my job. And they're doing a great job with their job,

just not wanting to step outside of that wheelhouse. Right. But, I mean, is the one guy or all seven don't want to help the other team when it's slow and we need to pitch in? Is it all seven or just the one guy? No, no, one guy is doing a great job of helping. The other six. Oh, the other six.

Yeah, I'm staying in my world. Well, welcome to leadership. What you've got to figure out is what's driving that bad attitude. This is an attitude. It happens here at Ramsey Solutions all the time where we all say, hey, we're going to jump in and help. And it's about the big picture mission. If this helps them, it helps Ramsey. If it helps Ramsey, it helps me. We're a part of a much bigger picture. And so when someone's not bought into that, it is an attitude, and you have to figure out where is the attitude coming from. Is it selfishness, or is it that they don't feel valued? They don't feel like they're bought into the big picture.

And I think that's where you've got to start, Dave, to dive into that a little bit. Do you have control over hiring and firing them? Yeah. So you could hire new people into the position? I could, yeah. Okay. All right. because you're probably going to fire at least one because you got somebody behind the scenes that's running an undercurrent on you and setting the tone faster they're shoveling the poop in faster than you shovel it out and you don't know who that is yet because right now you got a blanket six you got one good guy six bad ones all six of them aren't bad five of them are followers one of them's the dog and he's probably going to get fired when you figure out

who he is it's probably the only way you're going to get this cleaned up because this is a disease that's contagious. It didn't just land in there randomly. It has spread, this attitude. And so, by the way, winning is also contagious. By the way, enthusiastic response to the outcome of the whole organization is contagious too. It's culture you're building inside the organization. And so the way we talk about about around here is we often say we this is what we do we as a team guys we as a team when there's a need over there we're going to

enthusiastically help if you want to be a we you're going to enthusiastically help because that's what we do you may not want to be a we you may opt out and if you don't that you just let me know and we'll work that out i'll help you get your severance package together but we are going to do this and because when we help the whole place the whole place makes more money and when the whole place makes more money we all have opportunity to be promoted we all have opportunity to make more money because the place is makes more money we all have opportunity to be promoted we all have opportunity to make more money because the place is making more money when the place is barely struggling to get the dadgum product out the door because we're standing over here with our fingers in our

ear then we are harming ourselves because we're shaking up the stability of the whole place you know this money that gets paid in payroll doesn't come from freaking Santa Claus. It comes from the customers saying you did a good job. Profit is the applause your customers give you. And so when we need to get something done around here, it is for in our own personal selfish best interest to make this place run as good as it can run because that gives us the most upside we get nothing but downside by sitting on our butts so we are going to be fired up and wired up and we are going to take the hill we're going to push the ball over the line and score the

freaking touchdown that's what we are going to do now it's up to you whether you want to be a we or not i can't make you be a we and thomas a lot of times when i'm doing a leadership conference people will ask me uh how i motivate people i don't motivate people i hire motivated people and i fire demotivated people and when i get enough motivated people in the room the whole room will freaking explode with electricity and i can't make that happen but i can make the environment happen because you cannot win the kentucky derby with a donkey yeah yeah do you know who the dog is you know who the problem child is not not offhand because like i said they're all they're they're great at their

job yeah when you take each one of them off for coffee to the side you have this we discussion watch your body language and watch the eyes. Yeah. Okay. That was my next question. Do I hear a sigh? I'll tell you another technique. I'm being lectured again.

Oh, no, this will be the last one because you ain't going to be here. Yeah. So, Thomas, there's another way to do this too. I agree. You need to do the one-on-one, but I'll tell you the quickest way to figure it out is put them all in the room together all seven guys and say hey when we've had to jump in before i've noticed that we don't have the best attitude and i want to know your all thoughts what are your stressors what why do you what do you see this just ask some open-ended questions about

what you see and get their feelings and watch who they look at but i don't i don't think i don't think your snake will say a thing. No, but the others will look at the snake, though. Watch. They'll look at them. Yeah, they'll give a side eye. It might happen, yeah. Good.

I'm just saying that's one option. But, Dave, can I throw another scenario out here real quick to Thomas? Sure. This is also a part of leadership. It's why we do what we do at Entree Leadership. The fact that you said that all seven of these guys are good workers, they're just not, six of them don't have a good attitude about being team players. There is a difference. You can be a good worker, but not a good team player. And I just wonder if they are good workers, it implies to me that they have good

character. So maybe you come alongside of them and say, this is a way to grow in your life. And here's why we do this. The talk that Dave just gave, that whole we talk, I think you're going to have to train some of them. If they've got good character and they work hard, it is plausible that they could be a good team player, but you're going to have to cast vision and show them specifically like Dave was laying out. I'd rework that. Exactly how Dave said it, I'd say it that way because I think good workers, Dave, imply good character. And some of these young men haven't been taught how to be a team player. Well, you get socialized by the people you hang out with.

Boom. And if you're hanging out with people who say, well, the little man can't get ahead. Thank God it's Friday. It's true. Oh, God, the little man can't get ahead. Thank God it's Friday. It's true. Oh, God, it's Monday. If that's who you hang out with, you're going to sound just like them in a month. So you need some new friends, really.

If Eeyore is their spirit animal, they got to go. We got to move on to something else. Oh, it's bad. It's just awful. I don't know how we're going to make it. Jeez, come on. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 128, 2, You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands. You shall be blessed, and it shall be well with you.

James Jordan, the father of Michael Jordan, said, If you work hard, you will get the things you want. Pretty simple. Yeah. Can't disagree with that one. Can't disagree with the results from his son either. That's right. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

He wrote the book From Paycheck to Purpose. He is one of America's leading experts on careers, on jobs, on finding purpose in your work. And we are talking about all of that today. The phone number 888-825-5225. Steve is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you, guys. with us in St. Louis. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you, guys.

How are you? Better than we deserve, sir. What's up? So I've got a question about labor crisis. That's what you guys are talking about. And, boy, I can feel it. Labor crisis is affecting me, too. I own an accounting firm, and we did an acquisition of another accounting firm maybe about a year ago.

And with that acquisition, brought over a couple of employees. These employees are really good workers. They do great work. The clients like them a lot. But they don't fit with the long-term vision of the company. They don't fit culturally. They've actually undermined me with some processes, even to some clients in a couple of situations. But with the labor shortage, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what to do here. They're not good long-term, but they're great short-term. Why are they not a culture fit? Why can they not adapt to your culture?

You bought their company. Yeah, we bought their company, and they were a great accounting firm for 30 years, and they did not change their processes accounting firm for 30 years and they did not change their processes one bit in 30 years. I know. Why can these people not adapt and fit into your place? Why is it impossible for them to do that? I don't think they want to.

I think they like the way they used to do it better. Yeah, but I don't think they understand that it's getting ready to cost them their job. I don't know if they understand that either. I don't either. And that's's getting ready to cost them their job. I don't know if they understand that either. I don't either. And that's a leadership thing. That's on you. Okay.

What they don't like is change. Based on how you described it, I don't understand. Well, they're accountants. Yeah, right. But most humans don't like change. But you've got to understand that. It's not that they don't want to. It's that they're scared to death of the change.

Now, as Dave said, if you lay it out for them and go, you have to change, I'm going to be patient, I'm going to show you how to change, and then they buck up, well, then they don't want to. But you don't know that they don't want to change. We do know that change is scary for everybody and certainly for accountants. So here's how it would sound if it was at my place, okay?

We'd sit down in private, not in front of anybody else, very calmly and quietly, no raised voices, no swearing, no nothing like that. And we just say, listen, when we brought you guys in, I, as your leader, made a mistake, and I need to apologize for that. The mistake I made was I did not communicate to you how important it is that you're loyal to this team and to me, how important it is that you fit in with the culture. Even if you do a good job, you're going to have to do those things in order to stay. And I sure hope we can work this out because you really do good work.

And I didn't do a good job on the front end of telling you that doing good work is not the only thing you have to do to be here. And I'm making up for that today because I want to be very clear with you. Doing good work is not enough to let you stay here. We're also going to have to be loyal to me. If you have a

disagreement with me, you never undermine me with a customer again, or that'll be your last day because we don't do that here. If you have a disagreement with me, that's fine. I could be wrong and you're welcome to disagree with me, but you're going to do it with me in private, not in front of a customer. That's embarrassing for you, for me, and for the customer, and we don't do that, period. That's a real breach of ethics. Now, number two, we as accountants are not a people who like change, but change is coming, and we have to embrace some of it. We have to add new technologies.

We have to embrace some of it in order to stay up with the times. Otherwise, we will be bought by another firm. That's what happened to your old firm, and it's not going to happen to us because we're going to make the adaptations and change as part of it, and we're all going to go through the pain of that. It's painful for me, too. I don't like change either. I'm a freaking accountant, but I know I have to do this, and you do, too. So embracing the change, embracing the new processes, and being loyal are part of doing a good job here. Simply doing the task is not enough for you to remain with us. You may want to opt out based on this conversation, and if you do, I understand.

But you need to understand real clearly how we're going to go forward, you and me. And that's very kind nothing mean about that is it no not at all i'm finding a hard time uh i think it'd be hard for me to find good replacements for them and so i feel like i've got to put up with them longer than i would like i'm not putting up with the crap you're talking about for 30 seconds yep yeah if you if you want to write a whole series of emails trashing the leadership of ramsey and think you're going to be working here tomorrow you're confused no way yeah yeah and if you're going to run me down with a customer i'm going to talk to you one time about that

and say you know you i listen i make a mistake every day you can talk to me about my mistakes you can talk to me about you wouldn't have done it that way but we're going to do that together in private we're never doing that in front of a customer you are not going to create problems for the customer and stay here i mean so very short term it feels like it'd be hard to service the clients without it you'll be all right you'll be all right you're going to have a bigger problem cleaning up the mess with your clients if these goobers are running you down to your clients. They're digging a bigger hole every day they do that than you're going to dig by them not being there. I'm amazed at how fast, how unimportant we all are, and you realize that after you're gone for two weeks and nobody notices.

And we're all that way. I mean, if I went off the the air tomorrow it'd be about three people cry and two of them would be in my family and the rest of you'd be going well what else we're going to watch yeah i'd miss you dave i'd miss you a lot well i appreciate that thank you well i got four i got four people but yeah there you go yeah yeah steve you're also assuming here dave gave you terrific advice and you're assuming that they're going to go, well, nope, Steve, I'm not going to make these slight systemic changes. I'm out. You're assuming that they're going to gamble, and you feel like the gamble's on you by confronting them in a very professional way that Dave laid out. I don't think you should assume that.

And so I could still hear the fear, and I understand where that's coming from. I don't think you should assume that. And so I can still hear the fear, and I understand where that's coming from. I don't say that from a place of judgment. I'm trying to set you free from it to say, look, if you make it very clear to them that they've got to stop doing this undermining because they're resisting change and they must accept the change, this is exactly what they must accept, or we're going to have to agree to part ways. You've got to lay that with them, my friend, because if you stay in a place where you're afraid of it, they will smell that on you and it will turn toxic.

People like that, if it's truly something where they are just kind of a nasty spirit and they sense fear on you, they will take an inch and an inch and an inch and an inch and an inch and one day you'll just be done with it and you've had it, and we're trying to save you from that. Let me just tell you, I am amazed that when you kindly and gently and very clearly tell folks what's going on, that almost all the time they get right on board. Very seldom do you have somebody that bows up and says,

well, that's it, I'm out of here. Yep. Very seldom do you have somebody that bows up and says, well, that's it. I'm out of here. Yep. I agree with that. Unless they already were out of here and that conversation just finished it, you know. But if they're 50-50, what I'm talking about, we'll turn them and they'll get right on board. I agree. Because I don't think these are bad people.

I think they've just been allowed to get away with this crap. Yep. I think they've placated me before but then yeah i can make that change but then they don't make yeah yeah and we don't discuss we don't talk about what you say you're going to do we talk about what you do yeah and doing things is what we're going to is what's going to be required and so i don't you know if i tell my wife i'm going to send her flowers it don't count it only counts if I do it. Right.

You know, my intent doesn't matter. It's the actual action. And my guess is, in this case, that their fear of losing their job is greater than the fear of change. And then he walks alongside him and said, listen, I know this is painful. I'm going to serve you well. I'm going to help you with this. We're going to help you get through this change. It's not going to be as bad as you think.

And we can do this together if you want to do it that's but i can't make you do it uh the only thing i can make you do is not be here and i don't want to do that i think you're valuable i want you to be on the team and you know and i goofed up by not letting you know this on the very first day i should have told you this on the first day sorry about that but now we're gonna fix it so here So here we go. Game on. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Ken.

If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the get started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com and click get started.