The Ramsey Show - App - Why Millennials Buying Houses With Their Friends Is a BAD Idea (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

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Thank you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Ramsey Show, and it's where America hangs out. Have a conversation about your life, your money, your work. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague George Campbell. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Okay, so George, I've got to get you to weigh in on something I saw on the news.

I don't weigh much, but I'll try. Well played. You like that? That's well played, sir. Okay, so here's the headline. I believe this is Wall Street Journal. Yeah. Millennials team up to fulfill the dream of home ownership.

Burdened by debt and facing soaring home prices, first-time homebuyers are pooling their finances with partners, friends, or roommates. What? George. This is frightening. Say it isn't so. It is so. Wall Street Journal is pretty reputable. Here's the thing. It says the number of co-buyers with different last names increased by 771 percent between 2014 and 2021. So this isn't just a 2021 phenomenon. This has been climbing. This has been kind of happening. And what's happening is

millennials are strapped with student loan payments and all kinds of other payments, and they can't afford home ownership. And they're going to inflation, and I live in a high cost of living area. And so what do you do, Ken? You call up your buddy and say, hey, rent is real expensive. What if we went in on this and we became homeowners together? Okay, now let's talk about the nuances there. It's not a spousal situation where you both have the same last name. No. And as we teach, shared assets and all that stuff, shared bank accounts, these are two completely different individuals. So two of my favorite fake names to use in these scenarios is Bob and Larry.

So let's say Bob. Sound like people who would do this. No millennials on the planet are named Bob and Larry. Parents don't name their kids that anymore. They don't. Maybe Robert. Okay. So let's go with Robert and Randolph. Perfect. And Robert and Randolph are buddies and they go, okay, well, let's go do this. And so they buy a house together. What's that look like? They're both on the loan? Yes. It's called a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. Okay.

And so it happens. And it's just two buddies, friends. They don't have any marital connection. And they just want to own a home. And so legally, it's possible. It's not an illegal thing to do. It's totally fine to do. But it's a very dangerous move.

Why is it dangerous? Well, home ownership is a big deal. Yeah. And when you got your name on the title of that home, and then you got to go, okay, well, who's going to hire the handyman? Who's going to handle the mortgage payments? What if one moves away? What if one gets married? And so what happens is there can be a lot of hairy stuff in that relationship that goes down. Yeah. I mean, you're stuck. So Robert meets a gal. Falls in love.

I want her to move in. You're getting moved out. Wait, it's my house too. I co-own the house. It's just an – and by the way, we're at the very top of the onion here. We haven't really peeled it. No. There's all kinds of problems here.

Legal mess, relationship mess. I mean, it's just a mess. But like many things, it looks good on paper. And you go, well, financially, this is a great move when it comes down to the numbers. But when people see this through these rose-colored glasses and then life happens, it gets real messy. And I think we're going to see a lot of relationships hurt by this as we try to figure out all the nuances of homeownership with someone that you don't have a real connection with. So the moral of the story is please don't fall prey to this supposed good idea. This has just got all kinds of crazy risk attached to it.

But, I mean, wow. Extreme times. It points back to what we're trying to do with this Borrowed Future documentary. Help people get rid of their student loans so that they can live the American dream. Yeah. Buy your own house. Yeah, I love it. Home ownership. All right, let's get to the house. Yeah, I love it. Home ownership.

All right, let's get to the phones. 888-825-5225. Abhi is joining us in San Francisco, California. How can we help? Hey, Ken. Hey, George. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Yeah, so this is kind of based on the student loan thing, so I'd like you guys to talk about it. So my partner took out loans to go to college and her parents took out $175,000 in Parent PLUS loans. So if we get married, like combined, we'll be making a total of $240,000 a year. So I just wanted to preface by saying I don't have a problem combining finances,

paying it fully off when we get married, even though it's Parent PLUS, I get that. Currently, her parents are on income-based repayment, and they're hoping for loan forgiveness in 10 years. That's their mom as a teacher. But, like, JoJo already talked about it everywhere. Forgiveness chance is about, like, 2%. So, like, what kind of conversations should I have about boundaries with my partner and her parents, like, before we get married? You are a wise man, Abhi, for even having this level of maturity to go,

I've got to have boundaries, I've got to have a hard conversation. And so is this a conversation that you and her need to have with her parents, or is this how do I have the conversation with her? Both, I guess. I'm just lost as to how to have this conversation. Because her parents have made it clear that they want to hope for forgiveness in 10 years, but it's only 2% chance. They're like, I don't know what to do. Yeah.

Well, you're not going to be able to convince the in-laws of much. That's a difficult thing to do, to give them financial advice. I've tried that. It did not go well. So I'm telling you from experience, what you can do is empower your wife and help her have this conversation with her parents to say, hey, listen, this was loans you took out for me, and we want to do an honorable thing and pay these off. We don't want you guys to have this on your shoulders and wait a decade as we grow into our adult life and still have

these loans hanging around for the hope of forgiveness, which we've seen not moving at breakneck speeds, even with new legislation and new presidents. I just don't see a day where it gets much better than this. And so I think you're doing the wise thing by having the conversation, but I think you need to have it with her and not go directly to the in-laws, their future in-laws? So then if they want, they're older, so they want to retire soon, I'm sure. So won't it come back down onto us later on anyway? Like, I'm just trying to understand.

You're saying once you guys are married, what do you do then financially, if you want to pay them off? No, not that. Like, if our parents want to retire, they can't retire when they have this kind of loan where they have to pay income-based repayment plans. So, like, how would that affect us? Because it'll come back down to us, won't it?

No, I mean, her parents took this out. And so what happens is when the student applies for a loan and can't get it, then it turns into the Parent PLUS loan if the parent is willing to take it on solo. So normally a parent can co-sign for the loan, meaning, hey, you're both on the hook. And if Abhi doesn't pay, then it goes to the parent. But in this case, the parent is fully on the hook. And so that's the scary part with these Parent PLUS Loans is the parents are trying to do the best thing for their kid and set them up, but then they can't

retire. And so what happens is the kids then have to help the parents in retirement. And it really creates a bad, bad situation. So you guys have a fantastic income, and I think it's really honorable that you're wanting to pay these loans off, even though they're not in her name. And so I think if she has that conversation, maybe you sit down with her if they're willing to have it together, and you say, hey, listen, here's what we want to do. Once we're married, we want to tackle tackle her loans and we really appreciate what you guys have done to allow her to go to school but we want to take these on and help get this thing out of our lives and we don't want to wait

a decade yeah and again i i think that having her be the one that cast this vision because it's her parents yeah and tied it into their retirement and the way they want to finish out. Not from the son-in-law. Yeah. Stay out of it. But Parent PLUS Loans, huge high interest rate. I don't want you waiting 10 years and then nothing happens. And run the numbers. Show them the numbers of how it's going to actually turn out.

Good stuff, George. Thank you for the call, Avi. All right. Don't move, folks. More of your calls right around the corner. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Christi Wright. Do you ever feel lost, maybe a little alone?

We have all had that feeling. And I'll tell you what has helped me in these moments is listening to worship music. That's why I'm so excited to tell you that we are partnering with the number one daily worship app called Glorify. This helps remind us that God is with us. And the best thing is Glorify is free to download. Just search for Glorify in your app store or you can get 50% off their full library when you use the code RAMSEY by October 31st. The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, none other than George Camel. And we are taking your calls, 888-825-5225. I've got to tell you something. I've never told you before.

Oh, boy. I really enjoy saying your last name. Wow, that means a lot. Yeah, Camel. Thank you. By the way, tell people how it's spelled if they're new to you. It's with a K. K-A-M-E-L, like the animal. And I will say, Ken, I do have a Middle Eastern background. That's a shock to a lot of people based on my complexion.

You said that. I just came back from Cabo after a week. Oh, you did? I don't think I'm even 1% tanner. Did you soak in 75 sunscreen? Well, it was about 100 degrees and full sun. I didn't want to come back crispy, you know? Okay.

I burn easily. Do you tan? No. So you have a very light complexion, and that's just your deal, and you're going with it. That's just my deal. That's fantastic. Hey, if you aren't strapped with student loan payments, odds are you know someone who has millions are putting their lives on hold.

They can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck. Or even worse, they're waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness, which, by the way, is a total joke. Our team has produced a new documentary called Borrowed Future, and it's out now. It uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you. You'll see Dave Ramsey weigh in on the epic failure, otherwise known as the student loan program,

along with featured interviews from industry insiders. We're coming at this crisis hard, folks. We're taking big swings at the student loan problem with the goal to arm parents and students across the country with the truth, which is you do not have to take out loans to get a college education. You can graduate debt-free and avoid the predatory student loan industry. Borrowed Future is available for streaming now. Go watch on Apple TV, Amazon Prime Video, Google Play, or go to the website borrowedfuture.com.

That's borrowedfuture.com. You're excited about this because you kind of were involved in the precursor with the podcast. And a lot of the stories started there, and you'll hear some of that. But I'm just so passionate about this topic as we dug into it uh this was two years ago and we just did a bonus episode for the podcast and uh surprisingly not much has changed in the student world uh the student loan world ken in two years forgiveness hasn't budged much the legislation hasn't budged much a few of the players in the game like navient they're getting out but it still doesn't give me a ton of hope i still will stay stay away.

Don't recommend. A hundred percent. Because I will tell you right now, I don't mind saying this. I think that whole forgiveness language and conversation is a carrot to get more people to jump in. Well, they're going to forgive it. So this is free money. And waiting 10 years for something. If you said, hey, you can have it, but you need to wait 10 years, tell that to an 18-year-old, 22-year-old.

That's a lifetime. Yeah, it really is. So it's a lifetime for me. My goodness. Oh, thank you need to wait 10 years. Tell that to an 18-year-old, 22-year-old. That's a lifetime. Yeah, it really is. That's a lifetime for me. My goodness. Oh, thank you. I'm just not interested. No, no, no. 888-825-5225 is the number.

Let's go to Gainesville, Georgia. Incidentally, George, where I started my radio career. Look at that. WDUN was the radio station where I started out. So I love Gainesville, Georgia. Ashton joins us there. Ashton, how can we help? Hey, I just wanted to say first and foremost I'm a huge fan. I've been listening since I was in high school. Wow. And I've been

following for the past five years because I graduated 2016 as been doing my Dave-ish plan and I have recently just come to realize that Dave-ish doesn't work and it's all or nothing. And so with that, I have a huge question. I'm currently in baby step two and I'm also cash flowing my way through school. No student loans or anything, but I do have just shy of 20 grand in debt with a household income of right under 40K.

I want to say it's like 39.5 is right about what I bring in. What kind of debt is the 20 grand? So 10.3 of it is a car loan. And then the rest of it is just multiple credit cards kind of spread out between different credit cards. And my big question with that is, do I need to put a hold on school to finish baby step two or do i finish cash flowing my way through in this degree that i started as i'm not even sure if this is the field i want to go in or okay i'm not sure all right so all right so let's press pause on the on the uh money question and because i think this is going to tie in if you're not entirely sure, I want to

know what percentage you would put on it right now. Is it 50-50? Is it 80-20, 70-30 as to how sure you are that this degree you're in right now is not the direction you want to go? Hit me straight. As far as it's a business management degree that I'm working on right now, and as far as percentage-wise and everything like that goes, I'm looking at like 70-30. 70-30, not pursuing that direction? The 30% would be in the not. The 70 is in the, as far as pursuing.

So he's leaning towards a yes. Oh, you're okay. I confused myself here. You are leaning towards moving into business management type work. Correct. It's really just a, with how broad of an umbrella the degree is and everything like that, I'm not sure where specifically and there i want to go i do have about a about 14 months yeah of management experience that shift leading count i hey ashton i gotta tell you right now i would press pause on cash flowing to school and i'd crush the deck because i'm gonna tell you right now uh you don't need a degree to get

into business management you already said you got 14 months of experience leading. You could go get a job, two jobs, increase your income, which gets you out of debt faster, and get in a situation where you're following somebody and there's an opportunity, there's a ladder there for you to step up into leadership. You don't need a degree to get into leadership. So I would press pause. There's just too much unknowns right now for you to be taking that valuable cash and cash flowing a super general degree. For sure. The only reason that I have that experience, I've been working in the food business for a while and everything. uh my fiance and i welcomed our son into the world back in 2019 and i jumped up uh yeah jumped up the chain just a little bit just uh bring in a

little extra money but that jump forward put me in a bind on the family end and every schedule wise it felt like it drove a wedge into that and everything and so it was like it was like i was doing my calling but in the wrong area and i don't know quite where that area okay we're gonna lock in we're gonna lock in right here ashton you just led to it you felt like you were doing your calling but in the wrong place i like to call that you're doing the right thing in the wrong place i'm guessing the hours and the food service industry and all that was just crushing the relationship i get that because you got a little one now so is leading and managing people that's what you love to do that yes okay so so hold on a second hold on hold on i want you to focus on something very clearly if you can lead people and manage people and develop people help them win in the food industry

can you not do the same thing in other industries yes or no for sure for sure i like that answer george confident all right so George, let's now. So here's the deal, Ashton. I'm going to turn you over to George. I want you to press pause on this degree right now. I'm not saying don't go back and finish it, but I'm saying you can move up professionally even now because you've got leadership experience.

He's got $20,000 to pay off, George. Yeah, at this point, is your fiancée working? She is. She brings in about $1,400 a month. $1,400 a month, and that's on top of the $40 that you're bringing in a year? Correct. Okay, well, if either of you can get a second job, I want to tackle this thing. If you're going to pause school, then we need to go really hard at this debt.

If you were going to continue school, I'd say, all right, well, continue through school, cash flow that, and then tackle this debt as soon as you graduate. But if we're pausing school, we've got to get rid of this debt. I mean, this is half of your income tied up in credit cards and car loans. Maybe see how much the car is worth. You can drive a beater for a while and get this debt payoff cut in half. I'm all for that. And here's the deal. They're going to knock out the 20 grand pretty quick. School will still be there. Okay. But this is the greatest priority, and I think it's going to put some attention on how I can get where I want to get minus the degree in leading people. Well, you don't have to have a degree to lead people. Come on.

Get after it, young man. Your future is waiting for you. Don't move. He is George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Kit Coleman, joined by my colleague George Campbell, and we're taking your calls this hour, 888-825-5225.

How many of you out there want to get a bigger shovel so you can fast-forward the process of getting out of debt. We can help with that. That is a particular area of focus for me. George and I will team up on those. If you're feeling like, hey, I'm just not doing work that I enjoy at all, we're taking those calls. Of course, that's what I do on the Ken Coleman Show.

And then George is going to answer your money questions. He's ready to go, as always. And we love doing this. We are here because we really enjoy coaching you up. So let's go. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. And in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. I see Jason and Stacy.

How are you? Good. How are you? You guys are here to do a debt-free screen. We are. I love it. Where are you guys from? Boonville, Indiana. Okay, very nice.

All right, tell us. Give us the numbers. How much did you pay off? We paid off $68,000. How long? About three years and five months. Three years, five months. And what was your range of income? $98,000 to about $110,000. How long? About three years and five months. Three years, five months. And what was your range of income?

$98,000 to about $110,000. $98,000 to $110,000. What do you guys do? I'm a serviceman for water utility. Okay, great. And I'm a third grade public school teacher. Oh, okay. Very nice.

But you have to have a lot of energy, don't you, to keep up with third graders? For sure. I love it. Okay, so what kind of energy, don't you, to keep up with third graders? For sure. I love it. Okay, so what kind of debt was the $68,000? We were super normal. We had credit cards, student loans, truck payment, car payment, 401k loan, medical bills, just a little bit of everything. I think so. George, did she leave anything out?

That was like the potpourri of debt right there. Very impressive. That is awesome. I love so. George, did she leave anything out? That was like the potpourri of debt right there. Very impressive. That is awesome. I love it. So what happened three years ago where you guys said, no, not doing this anymore. We're getting debt free. Well, I had had a really long day at school one day and I needed to stop at Target and get some things for school the next day for a science experiment.

And I just blindly grabbed some things and I went through the checkout and my debit card was declined. And I wasn't even mad. Of of course I didn't think it was my fault I thought there's something wrong with this machine and I just used my credit card and went to my car and I thought you know I'm going to pull up our accounts just to be sure that everything's fine and all I saw was red like everything was negative he had no clue had no clue. And what really just got me was that we were in a normal time. We hadn't had any extra expenses or anything come up and I just had no clue. And I thought we are too far along in our career and we work way too hard for us to have no money. Where is all of our money going? And so I just said, we have got to do something different.

Wow. So Jason, what'd she say to you and how did you respond i don't even remember what it was but uh you know it was basically we have no money yeah and were you surprised something yes yeah and then and so at what point uh do you introduce the financial peace university the Ramsey Solution stuff? Was it FPU? Was it the Total Money Makeover? What was the starting point? Well, what's funny is I owned the Total Money Makeover, but I never read it.

I've read it multiple times since. But a couple of our really good friends had the home study kit for FPU and had offered it to us. And so when I got home that night, I texted her and I said, please bring me this kit. We are ready. And we started the next night. Okay. And I'm reading by the body language here, Jason, that you were all in.

You weren't pushing back. You were like, oh, no. Yeah, if we're going to do it, we're going to do it. That's amazing. What's that feel like, each of you, comment on that, when each of the spouse, you realize, hey, we're not fighting against each other on this. We joining arms here oh that's a great feeling yeah it made all the difference really because i was i was so upset with myself and i feel like he easily could

have been upset with me for for having this hole that he really didn't even know about um but he definitely showed a lot of grace and he he kind of owned his part of, you know, he kind of never paid attention to our finances, and so when I came to him and I said, I've been doing this on my own for a really long time, but obviously I'm not very good at it, and we need to do this together, and he agreed, and he said, you're right. So you guys went from problem unaware,

you didn't even know you were broke, to solution focused real quick. You went zero to 60. Three years, five months ago, what made you guys just go, all right, game on, nothing's stopping us? I think when we, people look at us and have told us before, you know, you don't really seem like the kind of people that are in debt. And we didn't think we were either. We're not fancy people, I mean, at all. And so, but when you list out your debt, one of my favorite podcasters says,

you got to know where your fist is going to land when you're punching it in the face. And that's true. When you list out all your debt and we totaled $68,000, I mean, we were blown away. And so we knew we had to get serious. Wow. Unbelievable.

So what did you actually do? What were the tactical sacrifices you made to get rid of this debt in three years and five months? Basically nothing extra. Nothing. No frills. Yeah, none at all. We did so much budgeting, and I became really good at meal planning and freezer meal cooking,

and we cut out all the fat, all the subscriptions. The pandemic helped. Nobody did anything. We didn't go anywhere. We both were very fortunate to have jobs that were very secure all through that time. We just used that time to keep us rolling forward.

We just locked arms and put our head down and said, we're getting this done. What kind of meals were we talking about? Did we have a lot of rice and beans or did you get a little bit more creative? Yeah, we had a little bit of chicken and pork. There we go. With that rice and beans.

I mean, that's the key is changing out the protein, George. He's willing to sacrifice, but he's not going vegan. Yeah, I know. I get meat and potatoes. I get it. Yeah, that's a sturdy man over there. He's not going to go vegan, George. That's incredible.

And you guys got a raise along the way. What happened there with the increase? Well, as a teacher, I don't get many raises. Right. But, you know, he does. And then I also just side hustled like crazy. Yep. Tutoring, summer school.

I sell Avon, pet sitting, dog sitting, house sitting. We just, anything we could. What was the most lucrative side gig? I think teaching summer school, actually. There's not a lot of things that teachers can do for their hourly rate, but summer school is one of them. And so it's a lot of hard work. It's intense. It's a short amount of time.

But it was good money for the work. You gave up a summer. Two summers, actually. Two. Wow. God bless our teachers. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you guys have done it.

So what would you say is the key to making it through this journey? Well. Just helping each other. Being there and being willing to work together. I listen to that question asked a lot because I listen to the podcast all the time. And I always agree with everything that everyone says. And I would add to that consistency. You know, it's not just about budgeting or communication for one month or for three months or for six months. It's about the consistency for month after month, year after year. We still create a unique monthly

written budget every single month. We just have a different relationship with money now. And so it just takes that consistency. And if we can do it, anyone can do it. We were team tiny shovel and we did it. So anyone can do it. You did it. And did you bring someone with you today? We did. What do we have?

We brought our son, Wyatt. He does not really want to come up on stage. He doesn't have to. He'll be 14 next week. You just explained everything. I totally now get it. My kids don't even want to be seen in the same zip code with me, much less a stage. So I get that. Well, hey, real quick, before you do your screen, we want to give you two things. One, the copy of Dave's latest book, The Legacy Journey. That's

the next stage for you as you guys really build legacy. And so we want to give that to you. And also a copy of The Total Money Makeover for you to gift to somebody else. So we want to give you that as a gift and appreciation for sharing your story. All right, here we go. You guys ready to roll? Okay, we've got Jason and Stacy from Evansville, Indiana area. They paid off $68,000 in three years and five months, making $98,000 to $110,000. Jason and Stacy, take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yes, you are. I love that. It's a very good phonetical kind of strategy there, Jason. Teachers are great communicators. They are. I expect nothing less.

They are. You know what I love about this particular story because obviously we have a lot of couples. I love that their story was they both realized at the same time,

had no clue, but both also decided, come on, let's go. Yes. There wasn't any hanging on, any arguing. It was like, no, let's go do this.

It tells me there was a healthy marriage there to start. Very healthy and even healthier now. That is really awesome stuff. Wow. That's why we do what we do, George's go do this. It tells me there was a healthy marriage there to start. Very healthy and even healthier now. That is really awesome stuff. Wow. That's why we do what we do, George. I love it.

Never gets old. No, it does not. Tell you what else doesn't get old. The show. The Ramsey Show. Don't move. We're coming right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we hope you get where you want to go in your money, in your work, in your relationships.

We're helping you live the life that you want through practical steps. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm joined this hour by my colleague, George Camel. We're thrilled that you have joined us. Blinds.com. Blinds.com. I don't know why I struggled to say that, George. 100% satisfaction guarantee means that even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color,

which I would mismeasure, George. I'm that type, too. You and me both. I'm no Chip Gaines. Yeah, exactly. So this is why Blinds.com is where you want to go. mismeasure, George. I'm that type, too. You and me both. I'm no Chip Gaines. Yeah, exactly. So this is why Blinds.com is where you want to go. They'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Make

sure you use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Jessa in Michigan. I am a loan officer at a credit union and I absolutely love my job, but I also am on the Dave Ramsey plan and I have fell in love with teaching a concept to our members about getting out of debt. I feel like a hypocrite because basically my job involves me creating debt. Do you have any advice for us who are stuck in corporate America? I feel like I am not part of the solution to money issues, but have become part of the problem. What fields can I pursue so I can become a solution? Well, it sounds to me like Jessa really enjoys the financial industry. And so she's obviously, because she believes in what we teach at Ramsey Solution, there is a conflict there. Now,

first we start with Jessa. You aren't part of the problem. You aren't a bad person. You are not doing anything that's unethical or illegal. However, I understand that the values disconnect. So if you love finances, the planning, the strategy, the numbers, and all that kind of stuff, and you want to help people win financially that doesn't involve debt, I'm looking at one of our SmartVestor pros. You know our system.

I really want you to reach out to somebody in your area that's a SmartVestor pro and go, hey, Ken Coleman, I was listening to the Ramsey show. They read my thing and told me to call you guys. I think about moving into your side of things because I want to help people win with money, not get weighed down with money. And I think coffee, lunch, a phone call to learn a little bit more about the investment side of things, financial planning, certainly financial coaching is an option. Working for an organization that has good products and services that better people's

lives and maybe you work in the finance side of that company. What I'm trying to say here is there is a whole lot of opportunities for you. You don't have to feel as though you are painted in the credit union corner. You can do a lot of what you like to do in a lot of different places. And she's saying she's a loan officer and she loves her job. And if you do that, I mean, we have our friends at Church Churchill Mortgage. They're helping people get mortgages the right way. That's right. So I think it's a great opportunity if you work for, maybe you are a mortgage loan officer, you help people understand the right way to get into a house that isn't going to bury them.

And so you go, hey, I want you to do this. There's a great way to do this. Here's the kind of down payment. Here's what kind of mortgage loan I would steer you to. And here's why. To where she can actually help people. That's right. Do it the Ramsey way and do it financially. That's a very good point, George. She may be able to stay in the credit union if it's a perspective change. Don't push somebody to a bad product. But if you're getting pressure to push to a bad product, then that's- If she's making car loans all day, I get it. Yeah. But if you love the loan industry, I think mortgages might be something that she could get into where she could really help people.

Yeah, and really guide people to do it the right way. Really good stuff there. All right, let's get back to the phones, 888-825-5225. Robert joins us in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Robert, how can we help? How are you doing, Al? Well, we're having a blast. What's going on?

Every day is a good day. I just had a question. I have, you know, I work now. I make good money. And me and my wife are, you know, pretty much debt. Well, not pretty much. We're debt-free except for our mortgage. Okay.

And the problem is, is the company I'm working for basically, you know, got rid of all the people that started the company. And then now the new owner is wanting me, because I'm outside sales, wanting me to do like things that I don't agree with. That to me, you know, gouge them, gouge our customers. And I don't agree with it. So they got rid of everyone else. And those people are starting a new company and they want me to go there. Well, I'm leaving a six figure job to go there and then start over. But I don't know if, you know, my wife thinks it's a, you know, she doesn't know if it's a good idea or not. But morally, I can't, I just, I can't do it. Right.

Because I'm not into that. That's not, because I'm in construction, just to kind of give you a little. Yeah. Well, you're a good man, Robert. You're a good man. And you've got a decision before you, one way or the other. So you and your wife have got to sit down and go, okay, one way or the other, I can't keep doing this. I think the million-dollar question for you, Robert,

is how much longer can you do it? Are you at a point where you feel like each day that you stay here and you're asked to do something you don't agree with, it's like, could you last 30 days doing this? I don't think the answer is yes, but I want to what you how long can you last until you find something else to step into if we don't take this startup opportunity i want to leave it today can you do that financially i have a lot of regular customers that you know i'm charging them double what i did before right and it's just not right.

Okay, so. They're just making more money. Right. So, but financially, you can't walk today. Did I hear you say that? Yeah. I mean, no. I mean, my wife makes good money, too.

So I think you could. You don't have any debt. You don't have any debt. And we have six months of our reserve. Yeah, well, I don't want you to necessarily use that. My question is, can you live off of your wife's salary for 30 days, 60 days? Probably not. Okay, so here's the deal.

You're going to have to – you've got to be a big boy. You've got to be a grown-up here. And so I think it comes down to doing your homework and finding out what would you make. Is it straight commission if you go with the startup, all these people you used to work with? Yes. Okay. So one way or the other, it's like you can't be without pay for 30 days.

Well, for 60. I think you could do 30 is what it sounds like to me. So you're going to have to bite your lip, and you're not doing anything unethical. You may not like the way it feels, but until you can find something to replace what you're doing and you should be able to as good of a salesman as you are you should be able to do it or the other question is is how quickly talk to these guys that want you go hey let's be realistic guys i i can't go 60 days without making money

how quickly am i going to be able to get up and run in and actually sell some stuff have you had that conversation we've had that, but at the same time, I've already got, you know, at least 10 to 15 customers that said they'll go wherever I go. Oh, well, you didn't tell me that. That's different. Okay. I know. I'm getting into it. Okay. No, no, no. I'm not getting on you. I'm just going, that's different information. I'd go tomorrow. If the 10 to 15 are going to follow you, I'd go tomorrow because now you can sleep well at night. You can live with yourself, and that's more than enough customers to get you going. Right?

Oh, absolutely, yes. Well, then it's a no-brainer. It's just my wife is not all for it. How do you convince her? Is it because of the income dip? From a six-figure salary to $20,000. You don't think you can get back to six figures in no time? I think so.

Well, you've got to show her that. Robert, this is a safety issue. Your wife doesn't feel safe. You've got to show her how. I know. I know, but listen. That's good news and bad news. Bad news is your wife doesn't feel safe. The good news is all you have to address show her how. I know. I know, but listen, that's good news and bad news. Bad news is your wife doesn't feel safe.

The good news is all you have to address is her safety. So you've got to sit down with her with a good old-fashioned piece of paper and pencil and go, with the 10 to 15 going with me over here, this is where I'm realistically going to be in the first three to six months. It's going to pinch us maybe a little bit, but we're in no way, we're no way near any kind of danger. And you show her how long it's going to take to get where it's going. And you have a conversation where she goes, oh, okay, I feel safe.

And a reminder, we've got six months in our emergency fund. Yeah. We have no consumer debt. You're positioned. We can do this. Absolutely can do this. Yeah, I would do that tomorrow. I'd do it today.

End of business. If I talk to my wife first. I want the wife to feel safe. Sorry. Smart man. I did get a little excited about that. How long have you been married, Ken? 23 years, which is why I amended what I said there.

Talk to the wife, then submit the resignation. That's the order of that. Hey, good stuff, George. Thanks, man. Always fun. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, and our associate producer and call screener, Kelly Daniel. And we want to thank you, America is your show it is the Ramsey Show hey guys this is James senior producer for The Ramsey Show.

Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramseyshow.com.