The Ramsey Show - App - Why Relying on the Student Loan Forgiveness Program Is Foolish (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 25, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dave, I work in a job that qualifies me to have my student loans forgiven in 10 years if I work here. I pay minimum payments on the student loans, and because I work at this government service job or this community service job, my student loans will be forgiven after 10 years. The answer to that is always don't do it. Get your loans paid off as quick as you can. For God's sakes, don't stay in debt for 10 years. And have you heard that the government is questioning whether or not they're actually

going to do this or not? So this comes from MarketWatchCBS. The government loan forgiveness program has rejected 99% of borrowers so far. Only 96 people are included in the first cohort of borrowers of the public service loan forgiveness program. 96 people in the United States so far have had their loans forgiven, the public service loan forgiveness program. Ninety-six. So far, roughly 99% of processed applications for forgiveness

under a government program aimed at helping public servants manage their federal student loan debt had their applications rejected. As of June 30th this year, about 28,000 borrowers submitted 33,300 applications to have their loans discharged under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, an initiative launched in 2007 that allows borrowers who work in certain types of public service to have their federal student loans wiped away after 10 years of payments. What I was just talking about of the roughly 29,000 applications process so far, 96 have had 5.52 million in debt discharged under the program, according to a government report released Wednesday. Experts expect the number of approved applications to rise in the coming years. When the program launched in 2007, there was little publicity or clarity around it. Many who watch the public service loan forgiveness Program closely have been concerned for years.

That would be me among them. That its complicated mix of requirements would make it difficult for borrowers to access. There's also likely a large cohort of borrowers who believed they'd be able to claim forgiveness under the program and perhaps organize their careers and financial lives around it, but weren't aware or were confused by its many requirements. Rendering them ineligible. 33,300 applications. 96 have been approved.

If you're waiting on the government to fix your life, you're screwed. Get your student loans paid off as soon as possible. To start with, let's just assume that you were one of the 96. You still waited 10 freaking years to start your life. You waited 10 years to start your financial life. That's asinine. It's ridiculous. We have people on here every single day doing debt-free screams that have paid off $50,000,

$100,000, $150,000 in student loan debt, and they've done it in one, two, three years, not ten. They got it out of their life. They were done with it. They weren't waiting on welfare to fix their life. When you wait on welfare to fix your life, you get screwed. You get screwed, and that's what's happened. So, I mean, seriously, some of you you know jerking around with this you've been thinking i'm gonna i'm gonna win this i'm gonna play the government game i'm gonna dumb my life

down to the bell curve and i'm gonna wait 10 freaking years for them to forgive a portion of my debt the portion that i have not reduced oh i forgot i didn't check into it. I don't meet the requirements. I'm ineligible. 33,300 people made applications, or 33,300 applications by 28,000 people. Ninety-six were approved. Houston, there's a problem. I mean, really? You've got to be kidding me.

Listen, that almost sounds like the odds of winning the lotto. It's like, yeah, I bet you buy lotto tickets too, don't you? The government's going to pay off my student loan debt, and I'm going to win the lotto. Two statements made by fools who thought they were going to build wealth. Nope, you're not going to build wealth that way. You're going to build wealth when you take control and don't wait on dumb luck and government programs to fix your life. How many people have you ever met in your life?

Now, I've met thousands and thousands of millionaires. How many millionaires do you think I met that said, Dave, you know, a government program made me rich? A government program substantially contributed to the fact that I'm a millionaire. Do you know how the 10,000 millionaires that we surveyed, how many of them said that? None! Not one! You know how many of them said they won the lotto none not one so here's the thing you know in other words are you going to believe in unicorns are you going to believe in mythology are Are you waiting? And when you say the government is going to fix my life,

that is the definition of mythology. The government is actually going to help me, generally speaking, is mythology. Now, I'm not angry at the government. I'm just angry that the government has convinced a bunch of you that they are the source of hope. I believe in you. I don't believe in them. I don't trust them.

I don't think there's malice involved. I don't think they're a bunch of crooks. I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. I think it is the largest case of incompetence in human history. They meant well, but they absolutely do not know how to do well. They want to help people, but they absolutely cannot seem to get out of their own freaking way to get there. And this is proof of it yet again. 28,000 people made 33,300 applications to have their student loans forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program.

96 were approved. All else were rendered ineligible because they did not meet the requirements. Which means you didn't know what the requirements were. You didn't bother to look at them. They didn't bother to tell you. They weren't even sure. They make crap up as they go along, and they change things. If you're waiting on them to get you out of student loan debt,

you're dumber than a rock. You really are. You're asking. Well, you're just asking for a mess because you believe the mythology when someone said, Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. When you hear that, you should run.

Run! This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization,

CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Cleveland, Ohio is on the line. Jack's calling. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Well, you're a man life beyond your years, so here's one for you. I've heard you talk about your annual family meeting where you discuss kind of your wills and and your wealth when you have those discussions with your kids do you actually open the books and show them the numbers yes you do yes now they're not when they were little kids but now that they're grown adults i do yeah okay when they were little kids, but now that they're grown adults, I do.

Okay. Because I've got one that's 28 and one that's 27. Yeah. We've never done that, and I'm just debating on how to do it. It feels very awkward. It is awkward. And there's a rule I use when I'm having an awkward conversation with anyone. I just say, hey, this is an awkward conversation. It lets some of the air out of the balloon and makes it okay.

But now I will tell you that one of the things that made me more comfortable with it was this. There's kind of a two-pronged thing. When I sat down with all of them and their husbands, at that time Daniel was not married. Had he been married, Allison would have been sitting there too but um i said okay you guys have grown up and you've known we've done well financially but you have no idea what the actual numbers are you don't know what my you've not known what my income was because you don't want your kindergartner running in and telling the kindergarten they're sitting next to him what your daddy makes i mean that's ridiculous kids don't have a filter, right?

So I don't tell little kids this stuff. But now that you're adults, our plan is this. It starts with this. As for me and my house, we serve the Lord. And so what I'm getting ready to unpack for you guys is not that you've hit the lottery, but instead that you have a, because we consider as Christians that we don't own this stuff, we manage it for God. And so you're getting ready to see that potentially someday

you're going to have a lot of responsibility managing God's stuff for him, God's wealth for him. And if you do not see it that way, and if you do not live your life that way, you lose your eligibility to manage, meaning I will take you out of the will. So, if you think you're going to live on the back of a yacht and do cocaine with this money, you are

confused. It's not going to happen. Okay? And it's set up in such a way that the other siblings can remove you from access to the wealth if you're not going to live in such a way that the other siblings can remove you from access to the wealth if you're not going to live in such a way that you work, that you are honoring to your marriage, that you are walking with God and you're managing. Now, that's our viewpoint.

That might not be yours, Jack, but I'm just saying that helped me with the awkwardness of it to where I said, instead of you having a woohoo moment, wow, when dad does, we're going to be rich. Yeah, this is really actually going to be a pretty heavy weight that you are being asked to manage for God. You get the benefits of managing it, which means you're going to have a great life, but it's also a lot of responsibility and i wanted them to feel that and the good news is we'd raise the kids in such a way that when we covered that with them they they they kind of got big eyes a little bit and then when i showed them the numbers they did feel the weight they said oh my gosh this is heavy and they didn't they didn't go like hey i'm going to park convertible i don't have to work look at this you know it wasn't any of any of that, but that was our approach, and that helped me unpacking it.

If you don't have some guardrails around it, and they just see it as a windfall, and then they change their behavior to a negative behavior, they don't feel like they need to work as hard, save as hard. They don't feel like they need to work as hard, save as hard. They don't feel like they need to manage their money as well. You know, they take a spiritual trip around the barn somehow and get into trouble. You know, then the knowledge has hurt them. And so you just got to talk about that stuff out loud and go, guys, you know, I'm not going to finance your misbehavior at my death. So if you're misbehaving at my death, you're not going to be getting any of this.

Because I love you too much to buy your cocaine for you. Yeah, yeah. You know, that kind of thing. So anyway, that's kind of how it sounded at our kitchen table. And so it was kind of, it was a little bit somber, honestly. And what could have been a celebration, but then they kind of got a smile on their face after a few hours, and they said, you know, this is really, it's not only a responsibility,

but it's also a privilege. And one of them said that, and I thought, you know what? I never heard, I always heard families of privilege, but you have the privilege of managing it for God, right? You have the privilege of managing it for the good of others for all the good works you can do with money that if you don't have money you can't do and that's a that that is a privileged family in that regard and so if they take it that way then you're okay but you got to be willing to set some guardrails on it otherwise i guess it could be

really really scary but even doing all that admittedly it was awkward as crud yeah well that's helpful that's really helpful perspective thank you um yeah we've not had a discussion they're good kids they're both out of the house working uh but you know the kind of things we're starting to think about my wife and i and i'm i'm just you know looking for more specificity on how you did it because obviously you've done well and so your children, so that's good. Yeah, I'll send you a copy of the book, The Legacy Journey, which is the only book I've written on wealth. All the others are on money.

Wealth is different than money. And so I'll send you a copy of that. It's got some of this stuff that I just said in there as well, and it'll give you some help and some perspective. Again, it's written from my worldview, so you have to take that into consideration. But I'll give you a copy of it for free and do that. So what's your net worth? Right now, about $8.5 million.

Way to go. Did you inherit any of that? No, no, no. We kind of grew up poor, and in my house, it was like, if you want something, you've got to work for it. So I started working at nine and never really stopped until recently. I just recently retired. Yeah.

And so have either of these kids got children? Do you have grandbabies? No, no. They're both single still. Oh, okay. Okay. Hoping for grandbabies. Okay, sure.

Yeah, get things in the right order. But, yeah, do it. Yeah, for sure. Cool. Okay. Well, I'm just thinking, because sometimes that helps you to couch the discussion too uh there weren't grandbabies when we had the discussion by the way there are now there's five now but at that time there weren't any and but i did just say you know someday you guys may have children and the reason and if we handle this right, this branch of the family tree will never be the same.

But if you handle it wrong, then you're just going to be another one of those stories. You know, and we've all heard. Well, you know, it's funny. My mother must have known your grandmother because I honestly did grow up watching her put cash in envelopes and work on her envelopes. Yeah. And, you know, my dad worked full-time and then worked side jobs on the weekends. It's funny, I've listened to you for a long time,

and some of the things that you teach is really how I grew up. So they're not new to me, but they're just framed differently. So where did you make $8.5 million? Where did it come from? Well, I worked for over 30 years. I seemed to be trade bait with companies. I was always getting acquired by another company. And basically what happened is in 1987, when I was acquired by a large products company,

I lost money in my retirement. And I said, you know, every time I get acquired, I seem to lose money. I've got to learn about money. So I went out and started reading books and talking to people and started investing in mutual funds, and that was kind of it. I mean, just slow and steady kind of wins the race. I've been with my financial advisor for 20 years. But you sold companies that you had built? Is that what you're saying, by acquired?

No, no, no, no, no. I was always an employee. I was in consumer products and health care sales and moved up into middle management. But the company that I worked for was acquired by another company. I see. And typically, you know, I was acquired. Something was lost in those times. Yeah, that didn't move you forward. Something was lost in the retirement.

Yeah, that didn't move you forward. It set you back and scared you enough to learn. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But it was really, you know, like when my kids were born, the day my kids were born, we got them enrolled in studies, diaper studies, and started saving for their college.

And every paycheck, I took out, you know, money for their college. And both of them went through four-year universities debt-free. So when they hear that you have $8.5 million, will they be surprised? Yes, they'll be surprised, yes. This is going to be great. I'm so proud of you, Jack. Well done. Congratulations.

The great American dream is alive and of you, Jack. Well done. Congratulations. The great American dream is alive and well, and Jack is living it. Touchdown, baby. Hold on. I'm going to send you a copy of that book, The Legacy Journey. You'll love it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know that if you combine the data breaches that have occurred in the past 12 months, almost every American has had their personal info compromised or hacked? Over 50% of our listeners and viewers tell us that they or someone in their family has been a victim. And 70% of those folks have had it happen more than once. See, this is unbelievable. Once thieves get your info, the risk never goes away,

and they can use it whenever and however they choose. It truly has become an issue of not if, but when. That's why the only plan I've ever recommended is through Zander Insurance. I actually sat down with them, and we put together a plan that I felt provided the best protection but didn't waste dollars on things you could easily do yourself or were just gimmicks. The key is getting protected before you're a victim, and it's too late. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

We are all at risk, and it doesn't make sense to wait. Numbers don't lie. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us. The holidays will be here before you know it, and you'll need to start budgeting now. Christmas is in December this year. I looked it up. You probably ought to get ready, you know. How are you going to do that?

Well, a good way to do it would be to get our free budgeting app that 5 million people use. It's called EveryDollar. If 5 million people are using it and you just learned about it, that means you're behind. It's free. 5 million budgeters are using this free thing to learn how to do the food, shelter, utilities, transportation. You take care of your priorities, and then you start laying out your life and start having a better life, and you live like no one else. So later, you can live and give like no one else.

You can get it for Android or for iPhone, either one, or you can get it for your desktop at everydollar.com. It's free. Takes about 10 minutes to set your budget up, and you can actually be ready for Christmas. Wouldn't it be nice if Christmas wasn't a crisis? It's amazing how many angry people are in traffic at Christmas. And they're partly angry about the traffic, and they're partly angry because they're late,

and they're partly angry because they're broke, and they're overwhelmed with Christmas stress. That's so sad. Don't be that guy. Tom is with us in Athens, Georgia. Hey, Tom, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I'm better than your football team, I guess, too. Ow! Hey, you want this dagger back? I just pulled it out of my back. What's up, man? I'm teasing. You guys are studs, man. Georgia's killing it.

I'm proud of y'all. It's a great team this year. Well, it's been a long time coming, and we're not there yet. But anyway, I'll get on with my question. I've got a home mortgage sitting around $383,000. We make a very good chunk of money, and we have half a million in taxable accounts right now, mutual funds. And just want to know, you know, I've always carried a mortgage, just because I think that's what normal does.

At what point do you recommend, hey, cash out, go pay off the mortgage, or with the amount of assets I've got set aside, do you just recommend more like an accelerated mortgage payoff? I mean, I want to do wealth management the right way. Okay. Does that make sense? Sure. The data points that we found in studying millionaires now for years, and in this last study we did of 10,000 millionaires,

there's a high correlation with a paid-off mortgage and increased accelerated wealth building. And the reason is pretty simple. It's more than just the simple math of, well, I'm making X on my return on my investments and my mortgage is Y. Am I not making more money than I'm, you know, I can make money by borrowing money on my house. But the borrower is slave to the lender.

And when you pay off your mortgage, it turns some, that's the last debt. You have no debt at all. And you're making the kind of money, dude, you're making. You know, it just turns something loose inside of you. You just don't think about that anymore. And you don't realize there's a risk associated with it. It's a minor risk in your situation. But there's a risk associated with it. It's a minor risk in your situation, but there's a risk associated with carrying that mortgage,

and it's just, you know, it's somewhere down around the base of your spine. There's one little last tight place, and that is released. And that last little piece of risk is gone, and, you know, it does set you free. And the weird thing is, like, my wife, the way she acted when we finally paid off the house, it was like, you know, it just changed. She just, like, there was that extra level of security, of comfort. Do you know what I mean? And it really wasn't mathematically measurable. But then it turned into math because by being free and not thinking about losing my house, you know, if something screws up, then I make other moves.

Not big risk moves, but I do stuff I might not do if I was worried about paying off my house, you know, if something screws up, then I make other moves, not big risk moves, but I do stuff I might not do if I was worried about paying off my house, you know? Right, right. And so, yeah, I paid off by Friday. Okay. And if you hate being debt-free, after the first year, go get your mortgage, but you'll never do it again.

You'll never go back. Right. And we own another piece of real estate that's free and clear. I mean, that one makes us money. It's Beach Rental down in Florida. Good. But we just, you know, we've always carried one in our primary residence, so I just didn't know what to do there.

Yeah, like you said, it's just normal. And the thing is, the truth is, when you look at your portfolio and your net worth and your income, dude, there's nothing normal about you. Right. No. I'm blessed. Dude, there's nothing normal about you. Right. No. I'm blessed. Yeah, so stop being normal. Thanks for the call, Tom.

And good luck with Georgia. Open phones at 888. I said it out loud. I'm trying to. Okay. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Seth is with us in New Mexico. Hey, Seth, what's up?

Hey, Dave, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I've got a couple of questions, and I just kind of want some help thinking through this. I'll try. I've been self-employed for probably 11 years as a general contractor with a woodworking shop and various other types of work like that. I recently got an opportunity, and I applied for a job just because of my health. I mean, not that I'm unhealthy, but just kind of the years have kind of beat me down, you know,

so many years on the roofs and jobs and stuff. I'm struggling with going back to a nine to five job and it would increase our income by probably triple. Wow. But I'm still struggling because I'm actually more afraid to go to work for somebody else than to be in control of how things, you know, kind of roll out when I've been working for myself. Gotcha. How old are you?

I'm 36. Okay. And you're doing what again? You said woodworking, but you're on a roof? What do you mean? Well, I'm a general contractor. Oh. I do specialty and cabinetry stuff, and I love cabinetry, and I'd like to do that,

but in the area that we work and live, you just kind of have to pick up a little bit of everything. Gotcha. Okay. All right. And what are you going to be doing in the office job that triples your income? I would be managing kind of a construction outfit, managing the staff and their bidding. So there is a lot of construction in your area then? I would have to commute.

I would have probably a 45-minute commute every day to go to this job. Okay. Why can you not? I'm just curious why you haven't commuted and gotten jobs there and increased the size of your business. Well, we do, and that's my other part is as we've started to expand out of the area and coming in here, I've actually started getting a lot more referrals and people are driving by and saying, hey, I love your products. I love your roofs.

We specialize in metal roofing. That's why you're on a roof. Okay. All right. Couldn't figure out why a cabinet guy was on the roof. Okay. Okay. So you've been doing sub work more than you've been doing GC work.

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of my issue. Can you elevate your business model into where you're a GC and you're not on the roof and you're not swinging a hammer? I'd love to, yeah. I'd love to get to where we... Why have you not? That's a good question. I think a lot of it is finding the right guys.

I've always said if I could clone myself, I would be able to get the jobs done the way I wanted to. You're a cabinet guy. You're a perfectionist, and you can't delegate. That's for sure. Yeah. I don't mind telling people what to do. Trim carpenters and cabinet guys are all detail people. The good ones, anyway.

They're craftsmen. You're a craftsman. That's true. Yeah, and you can't stand it when something's not right. That's right. And so you've got to do it yourself. I got you. Okay.

Here's what I would do. Take the job, make three times as much money, and reset your mind on what you want to do in the next season, and plan to work there three years. Okay. And after three years of triple your income, you're going to bank a bunch of money, you're going to learn some things, and you're going to reset your stuff. And then I want you to learn more about operating a business

than being a craftsman during that time. Because your problem is you've never moved from craftsman to business owner. And that's what kept you from expanding. I suspect that if I ever built cabinets in my house I'd really want you to do it. Because I bet your quality is off the charts. But if you're going to make money, you're going to you to do it because I bet your quality is off the charts. But if you're going to make money, you're going to have to move up from craftsman into business owner, meaning from sub to GC in this case. And you got three years to do that while you make a bunch of money

learning from some other people. Use this new job as going to college on how to run a business. Take the job. I would. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Ephesians 4.29, Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is hopeful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. James Humes said, every time you have to speak, you're auditioning for leadership. Oh, I just got a chill. That's good. I like that a lot.

Our question today comes from blinds.com, they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free. Site-wide savings are ramping right now, plus you take an additional 5% off at blinds.com slash Ramsey. Number one seller of window blinds on the Internet. Wonderful company. Blinds.com slash Ramsey darika is in ohio dave i'm going back and forth about paying off my car i have eight thousand dollars left my co-worker told me not to pay it off because i have a low apr 4.84 i have the cash to pay it off and i'm confused

darika your co-worker's broke. Listening to broke people for financial advice is like taking dieting advice from fat people. That's stupid. Pay your car off and never borrow again on a car the rest of your life. That's what millionaires say, not your broke co-worker who thinks they can run a calculator. You've got to get out of the land of car payments if you want to win with money. You cannot win with a car payment. It does not work. It is the mantra of the middle class.

You're always going to have a car payment. Translation, you are stuck. And then you complain about crap like stagnant wages because you won't get off your stagnant butt and change your life. Not you, DeRica, but the rest of you. So, Ms. DeRica, pay off your car today and take no more financial advice from broke people. It would be like taking advice from me on how to grow hair.

That would be like taking advice from me on how to grow hair. That would be stupid. I don't have any hair, in case you didn't know. On my head, anyway. Kevin is with us in Denver. Hey, Kevin, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Oh, Mr. Ramsey, your show is great. I love it. Thank you for being there for us.

Well, thank you. How can I help? Well, I have a question for you regarding my mortgage payoff. We reached the threshold of $100,000 owed. We're down to $98,000 on a 15-year mortgage. We're halfway through it. Yep, yes, sir. We're seven years left to go.

We're on baby step six. And my wife and I are struggling a little bit with some comfort levels in our baby step three and four areas to help us pay this thing down early. I did some math the other day and made up a plan where we could pay it off in two years if I use $30,000 from a savings account that we have. That's our nine-month savings, our emergency account. I know you recommend three to six. Our comfort level puts us at nine, but I thought, well, if we brought that down to 4% and then put $30,000 towards our mortgage,

and then the rest of the cash flow would come from baby step four. Currently, we're saving 17% of our income for retirement. If we brought that down to 15%, those two scenarios would get us to pay off the house in two years. So you would have a four-month emergency fund? Yes. And you would be putting 15%, not 17%? Yes, sir. That's correct. So it would be kind of like you started doing what I tell you to do. Yes.

Well, that would work. My wife and I were talking about this. I said, well, Mr. Ramsey would recommend this. We're above that, so why would he tell us not to do this? Of course. I'm going to tell you to do my plan and not your plan. Exactly. So, you know, we're ultra-conservative.

I think. You know, the cushion, you know, the extra cushion, the extra savings, we want to make sure we have enough. Hey, let me stop. I'm eager to pay this thing off. She is, too. Let me help you with this. Yes, sir, please. I'm ultra-conservative, too.

That's why I want you to get your house paid off. That's why I limited you to 15% in three to six months. Okay. Because getting your debt paid off is an ultra-conservative move. That's right. So we both are ultra-conservative. Pay your house off, man. 15% in baby step four, three to six months,

and four is within the three to six range. And, yeah, do that. Let's pay it off in two years. You're going to be debt-free. I love your plan, since it's my plan. Taylor's in Paducah, Kentucky. Hey, Taylor, what's up? Hey, not much, Dave.

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I'm looking for a little bit of advice. We're in a unique work situation. So I currently work two part-time jobs. We're in Baby Step 2. My husband is actually an overseas contractor, so he does like three months on, three months off. So the three months he's home, he'll pick up a little part-time job, and we just kind of work through it.

But obviously, while he's over there, we're stashing away some money to cover bills you know for the three months he's here with no income so you can't live on your part-time jobs when he's home barely then why why are you using the money well if you can barely live on your part-time jobs then why are you using the money why are you stashing money to cover it? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Okay. You said you can live when he's home with the income you create with your part-time job and his part-time job. Did you say that?

We almost can. We can almost cover our bills. Okay. Do better on your part-time jobs and cover your bills and use the money he's making to get out of debt then. Okay. His part-time job when he's home sucks. True. Okay.

Pick that up. And then all of a sudden the work that he's doing overseas becomes a huge windfall to make huge strides forward with the debt. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. If he's coming home and taking time off and you're having to use all the money he earned extra to cover his time off, then you're just a rat in a wheel. You're not making any progress mathematically.

But if he comes home and you clear all that money to throw at debt because he keeps working when he's home enough, you and him working enough to pay your bills, and then he goes back and does it again, now we're making huge leaps forward mathematically. Is that logical? Absolutely. And we do make huge strides while he's there, but it's almost, I feel like we're not doing it very efficiently. You're not doing a budget.

No, we're not. And that's another thing I was going to ask about. Because I use every dollar, but with him being over there, like I don't know what he's going to need or how much. Why not? Well, because he doesn't really know what he's going to need either. Of course he does. He just doesn't want any limitations.

Partly, but honestly, he doesn't have access to much over there. Good, then he doesn't need much. So that's where we're struggling. Then he doesn't need much. Yes. So set a budget for over there, set a budget for over here, put it in every dollar, make a category called over there. And that money's in every dollar, and that's the money he's got to live on.

That's his allowance. And he is part of making this decision. You're not putting him on allowance. You together are deciding, I'm going to be over in this freaking sandbox. I'm not going to blow all the money I'm making. Exactly. Again, you can't go over there and have a pity party and spend money and lose all the traction you've got because you're paying a price

being away from your family to make a chunk of money. The only reason he's there. Yes, it is. We did this specifically to get out of debt. So both of you live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans, or

hummus and chips, or whatever he needs there, right? That sounds better, doesn't it? Well, you just crank it down is what I'm saying. I mean, you know, whatever is Afghanistan appropriate or whatever sandbox he's in. Right. And so, yeah, you just crank it down. But Bubba needs a guideline here that he agrees to and he sticks to it.

And you can put all of that on EveryDollar. And he's got Wi-Fi. Put his EveryDollar app on his phone, and you guys get plus and do it. And, hey, let me just do this. Let's put you all through Financial Peace University. We'll put you in the one-year membership, which gives you EveryDollar Plus, and you can both be looking at every bank transaction and everything. He can watch over your shoulder.

You can watch over his shoulder, which is the way it should be. You're married while you're doing this stuff. Hold on. I'll have Kelly pick up. We'll sign you up for a one-year membership to Financial Peace University. And then you can go through the class together, and he's overseas and you're there. You can watch the videos together and talk about them online.

It'll be perfect. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know that in 2017, Dave Ramsey Show listeners paid off $50 million in debt?

That's pretty impressive, and it could be you this year. Keep listening for more inspiration.