The Ramsey Show - App - Why the Debt Snowball Method Works Best (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss:  "Should I Invest in making passive income?" Pausing paying off debt to cash flow a wedding, "Do you still recommend stocks over gold?" "How much car can we afford?"  "How do I find a good work-life balance?" "How do I increase my income?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/george Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people win in their life, specifically with their money, their work, and their relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, George Camel.

They call us Ramsey personalities. That has nothing to do with our multiple personality disorders. It's just we'll assume we have a lot of personality. Yeah, you may not think we have any personality at all. George and I tend to think that we're quite funny and pithy. We're better than watching paint dry. That's fair. That's the bar.

That's fair. We've been known to be called the root beer float of the Ramsey Show. Obviously, we have two of us hosting every day, any combination. And it's started to stick a little bit. And so that means we have fun. I will tell you this. George and I are going to have fun. We enjoy being around each other.

If nothing else. We're going to have fun with you. We're not going to yell at you, scream at you. We'll poke a little fun. George is here to take your money questions. He answers the questions honestly, sometimes better than Dave. I'll just be honest. I just said it.

Wow. Easy to say when the big guy's not here. Yeah, exactly right. He's not here. He's probably on the golf course, but you're much nicer is all I'm saying there. And then I'm here. I'm the work guy. I hate the word expert, but I help you with work issues because your income is your greatest wealth building tool. So how do you want to make more money? How many of you want to do it in a place where you're valued? And so I'm the guy to help you with that. We work together on these calls. So we'll take your work calls, income related calls, money calls, relationship calls. Sure. George and I are both been married. George is about to be a dad. So now he's already ready

to give parenting advice. You're going on, are you hit 25 years? 25 years. Stacey and I celebrated 25 years. That's incredible. That's very hit 25 years? 25 years. Stacey and I celebrated 25 years. That's incredible. That's very exciting. Very exciting. Congratulations. Stacey has no judgment and tremendous patience. That's what that means. So there you go. Alright, we've got let's get to the call, shall we? Danielle is joining us now in Syracuse,

New York. Danielle, how can we help? I'm just interested on your guys' thoughts of investments while you're young when you have the extra cash to hope to have some more passive income in the future. I'm just interested if I'm making the right route. Nice. Tell us about this extra cash. Give us a snapshot. Well, I guess, I mean, I'm a fairly frugal spender,

so I always spend less than what I have. But, I mean, I have the debts of, you know, a mortgage and then an investment property mortgage, but really strong full-time job and my husband and trying to figure out, you know, we've purchased an additional or in the process of purchasing our second additional home and we've got, you know, some long-term renters, but I'm, you know, just with the way the market is these days, I'm wondering if it's, the rates are high. So people are, you know, maybe less apt to purchase a house and more apt to pay the rent. But am I signing myself up for too much debt that I can't handle in,

you know, 15 years, or is it gonna,, the extra $6,000 you get a year, is that really worth it? Well, you're thinking through this the right way, and you've got a lot of wisdom coming at this. What's your household income? About $180,000. Fantastic. Okay, and then how much debt do you guys have?

So this is like including all the mortgages, correct? Yes. Okay, let's take a look here. So, probably around $25,000 in student loans, $1,000, $120,000 in one of the houses, and then it'd be $140,000 in the other house. Okay. And then $20,000 in one car. Okay. Okay. So far, you know, this idea of passive income sounds great.

It's just like, oh, man, I'm getting this cash flow every month. I don't have to work if I don't want to. But right now, I feel stressed looking down at these numbers going, man, what if we could have some peace in our life? We didn't owe anyone anything? That's some serious cash flow. Anything we do own that is producing cash is 100% other than our expenses. And that's where I want to get you guys to. And what we lay out is called the baby steps. We tell you to pay off the consumer debt first, then attack the mortgages. So making 180k, if you just focused on just the consumer debt, the smallest debt first, you could knock that out really quickly, couldn't you? Yep.

So within a few months, you could knock out the student loans, knock out the car payment, and then just have these mortgages to worry about, right? Can I ask a question? Sure. When you look at the interest rate of the student loans, because we've refinanced, when you look at the interest interest rate of the car those are lower than what i'm paying for my house okay should i so should i put them that's where like i have the struggle like do i put the loans where i'm accruing more interest because we make off you know we make probably three principal payments a year on every house try to pay it down but how you know you say consumer first but what about the interest we regardless of the interest rate we found that it's more about behavior than knowledge when it

comes to personal finance 80 behavior 20 head knowledge and right now you're staring at this big pile of debt you're trying to invest you're trying to do 17 things at once and you're not going to make progress but when you focus on that small debt, it gets knocked out quick when you ignore the interest rate. Because this isn't about math. This is about actually gaining the traction, feeling the momentum, and sticking with it. And so you're right. On paper, you're going to go, wow, I don't understand it. And I could make more in the market, so why even pay this down? But when it comes to life, we don't think in numbers. We think in feelings. And you sleep better at night when you don't owe anyone anything. So if I'm in your shoes, just slow down.

We'll get to real estate investing. But right now, we're not going to buy any more property. We're going to focus on the consumer debt. Let's focus on paying down the mortgages we do have. And then for the future properties, I would be paying cash. That sounds insane because you're going, that could be 10 years from now. Yes. And for those 10 years, you're going to be sleeping real good with no payments in your life.

Understood. So that's the route. Ken, I don't know if you have any other thoughts on this idea of passive income. And it sounds like you may not love what you do for work right now. I don't know. There's a lot going on there. I think just what you said is very helpful. And I'm always thinking of new listeners and viewers that are coming in and they're hearing this. And I love what you said, because if you make this about the numbers, well, this interest rate is lower here. And what happens is you get caught in this strategy and you go, wait a second, I've got to pay over here to here, here. And there's no momentum. If we understand the baby steps, the way that Dave set them up after years of counseling people, it's the momentum piece. And so that's why we don't say, well, pay the one with the highest interest rate. It's about the behavior, as you said said but really what comes as a result of the baby steps for new people i want you to understand it's momentum and then momentum leads to lifestyle change

you know what i mean yeah i i think people need to understand because it's like this is about you could go different ways and number strategy that's why we have people call up and try to argue with all the time we're not like it's about momentum and we're saying no debt at all so that you have true peace. So when you look at it that way, it does change your perspective. So get out of the numbers. One thing at a time. Focused intensity causes that momentum. Get out of debt first, then get an emergency fund, then start investing. You can do all of these things, but trying to do them all at once is planning to fail. That's right. And again, that's a great point. You're not getting as much momentum. Singular focus of each baby step leads to the best momentum as a result of the most

results. Momentum is an attitude. It's a spirit. It's like, okay, I'm making progress. I want to keep going and I develop a muscle for it. So there is a method to our madness, folks. And a lot of people think we're crazy mad and maybe we are, but we have a whole lot more money and a whole lot more peace than you do. So there, this is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, George Camel, and we are here for you this hour. 888-825-5225 is the phone number hour 888-825-5225 is the phone number

888-825-5225 taking your work questions and your money questions and you know whatever else you want to ask today we'll see how it goes 888-825-5225 let's go to Toronto, Canada Adam, you excited about that?

I get excited about the Canadian callers it's always a gamble. Ooh, eh? Okay, let's see what happens here. Adam, how can we help? Hi, can you guys hear me? We can hear you well, sir. I actually didn't think I would get through today, but I'm glad.

I have a bit of a dilemma that I'm trying to get solved. So basically the situation here is I'm trying to get married in December, right? And I want to save to get married, but I also have $48,000 worth of debt. So I was thinking, I don't know if I should put getting married on pause and focus on clearing this debt first, or if I should just keep saving to get married and then deal with it after. I don't know. I'm kind of new to listening to you guys, so I don't know what advice you would give in that situation. I know you guys get that tunnel vision and focus on paying off debt.

I got to ask, do you actually think that putting your wedding on pause is possible? What's the other person think about that option? Have you cleared that? I mean, she's okay with it. She's okay with it. We're not trying to do anything too big. Okay. Yeah, how much is the wedding going to cost?

We're planning to keep it small, so it shouldn't be too much, but I want to save a certain amount because I'm thinking about not just the wedding cost, but getting an apartment, furnishing space, all these other expenses that I'm thinking about. like, you know, not just the wedding cost, but getting an apartment, furnishings, place, all these other expenses that I'm thinking about. So what's the number? The number that I have in mind is maybe, like, everything, total $40,000.

Just for the wedding? Not just for the wedding. Plus all that other stuff. Maybe, like, tend to get married and then getting a place. Well, rent is going to be an expense. Do you not have rent right now? As of right now, I live at home, so my expenses are very low. That's another thing, too.

Are you working full-time? Okay. Yeah, I'm working full-time. I just started working full-time as a truck driver, currently making like about 84K a year. Awesome. So my expenses roughly aren't too crazy, so I'm able to save. Now, that's another thing, too, because I know once I get married, my expenses roughly aren't too crazy. So I'm able to save now. That's another

thing too, because I know once I get married, my expenses are going to go up. So I don't know if I should just, while I don't have too much expenses, focus something off debt. Hold on a second, Adam. How much is she going to work and how much will she make or how much does she make now? As of right now, she's not working. She's finishing up nursing school, so it will just be my income. How long before she's out of nursing school? About a year. Okay. So you will be the sole income provider for a period of time, even after you get married?

Yes. Okay. If I'm in your shoes, I'm not going to put life on hold. I'm going to get married. I'm going to do a wedding on a budget that I can afford, and that might mean we do a $20,000 wedding and we have family pitch in and her family pitch in. Have you talked about who's paying for this? I mean, as of right now, I kind of put it in my head that I'd be paying for everything.

How come? You know, I kind of want to prepare financially that if it is just me that I'm ready, if I do get help, that would be great. but I kind of want to just have the money. Well, let's have the conversation. Let's get the families involved and say, hey, we want to have this wedding. Here's our budget. Are you guys able to contribute? Would you want to contribute?

There's no pressure. I don't think taking it on yourself is the move here. Yeah, Adam, what's the – in America, it is a tradition, certainly at least a first expectation, correct me if I'm wrong, George. It's been a long time since I got married, but that the wife's family fits the bill for that. Is that the

same in Canada, Adam? I mean, the thing is, I'm from Africa, so it's kind of a lot of cultural thing is kind of the man and the man's family takes care of things. Well, have you talked to your parents about this? Yeah, the thing is, I'm coming from a, like, low-income single mom household. That's fine, so they can't contribute. I would still have a conversation with her family,

because if this is on you, then I'm going to do a bare-bones, maybe we do a courthouse situation and do a big party later on. George, I don't like the $20,000 suggestion you made. No, I'm just trying to go, we need to find a compromise here. We can't spend $40,000 on a wedding. No, no, no, I don't plan to. I don't plan to. I'm going to throw this in here. I'm also excited and looking smart.

You're saying this extra $30,000 is going to happen because of an apartment. In an apartment, you need first month's deposit, last month's deposit, maybe some moving costs. And then furnishing. We don't need to go crazy with furniture right now. If it's me, I'm a little bit more, I don't know if it's old school. It is old school. You can say it. Okay. So if the fiance is willing to postpone the wedding, I'm not saying that you put life on hold. I understand the advice, George. I don't disagree with you, George,

but my take is I would be willing to push the wedding a little bit to save money, and I'd also be very willing to do a low-key wedding, if she is. I just think that wedding prices have gotten out of control and and and i don't mean to sound like the old fuddy-duddy but i'm gonna go with it okay well it's become more about it's a cultural pressure it's become more about reputation yeah it's like i gotta have a nice car so i'm gonna drag around a 750 car payment i gotta be look successful so i'm gonna

go to school that i can't afford and get a degree i can't use. I don't know when we just don't at some point go, this is nonsense. And just as a dude, I'm going to put it out there. I remember we had a nice little wedding. It was lovely. It wasn't ridiculous. But I remember how stressed out my wife was. And I remember the actual wedding day, George. And the ceremony was about 20 minutes long. And you get done and you walk down the aisle and everybody's smiling at you. And there's this moment where you're at the back of the church. It's just you. Like the wedding planner hasn't even caught up to you. And I remember going, huh, that was like a whole bunch of hullabaloo. A lot of fanfare.

A lot of fanfare. We could have just done a private ceremony. I get it. It's about the family. But when we're trying to get financially in a place of health, I don't know, George, I'd push the wedding a little bit. I'd scale way back. That's me. Yeah. I mean, you make 84 grand, you live at home. I'm going to throw a few grand. I'm going to live on nothing and throw a few grand in a savings account every single month. And let's cash flow a small thing if that's what you guys want to do. the conversation with the bigger family see who's able to contribute do the wedding based on that budget and then attack the debt as soon as you're married okay but we've got to have a conversation adam all this opinion you've got to have a conversation with your fiance the families

you've talked more about this wedding with us than you have with the families i think that's true that's a problem we're just two random dudes. You're right, you're right. It doesn't have to sit down with them. But don't take this on yourself as this burden of like, well, I'm the man, so I got to take this on. Listen, they're going to have opinions about who makes the invite list, and therefore they need to have some skin in the game too.

I appreciate the African culture, all the culture. I appreciate all of that. But, man, if the Canadian in-laws would like to punch in some money, I would take it, pal. I would take it, you know? Wouldn't you? Absolutely. Hey, it's a big expense. Yeah.

Just so you know, the debt is kind of like, because I've kind of been listening to you guys for a couple months now, and now that I'm really taking in how much debt I really have, $40,000, it's really like... What kind of debt is it? I really... I have a list here. You want me to go through it?

How much? Yeah, just rattle off the categories. Okay, okay. So $25,000 of it is a car note. Okay. I'd say $5,000 is one credit card. Another $5,000 is a Best Buy loan. $4,000 of it is student loans.

$3,000 of it is my truck school loan. $2,500 is another credit card. $1,000 is like a personal someone that gave me a loan. Another $1,000 is a credit card. Oof. Man, if I'm in your shoes personally, I might just sell the car if you want to pay for this wedding and be done with it and get something cheaper.

I know. I've heard you guys recommend that, and it's kind of something I've been thinking about as well. It's not out of control for your income, so if you want to pay it off aggressively and keep it, that's fine. But with where you're at and you're feeling the pinch right now, you can always get a nice car later. So that would be the other option you have on the table

to at least clear some of this debt fast. I'd do a picnic-style wedding with Solo Cups. That's what I would do. You don't have to invite Ken. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm not coming anyway. Toronto sounds nice this coming.

Toronto in December. That's going to be a brisk one, Ken. I don't want to go to anybody's wedding. Anybody. I just, women love them. He's done with it. I'm done. Do it once.

He's too old. That's it. I don't want to do it. Hey, don't move. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

Welcome back, America. You have joined the conversation about your life, your money, your work, your relationships here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Camel. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Time for our question of the day, brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. If you're moving, you have a long list of to-dos, but Neighborly has local pros like

Housemaster, Five Star Painting, and Junk King to check items off that list. Visit Neighborly.com today to schedule home service experts near you. Today's question comes from Julia in New Mexico. I've been hearing reports of the dollar potentially losing value, which would affect 401k investments, etc. Hearing recommendations on diversifying into gold and silver. I've heard in the past you do not recommend this based on past performance of the metals. Do you still recommend the 401k and stock market investments over the physical gold in this current economy? What say you, George? Yes. Short answer. Longer answer, yes. I'll add some flavor to it and Ken can chime in.

I actually did a video about this on my YouTube channel. Oh, you did? And I didn't know this existed. Nice plug, George. There's like gold trolls out there, Ken. They love to jump in the comments of these videos and be like, it's all coming down. Because they know weak-minded folks like you will read them. That's right.

Don't jump in the comments. I tell you this all the time. Listen, I didn't respond to them. I just saw them. Yeah, but see, that's garbage in. You see what I mean? Garbage out. These people are not healthy. Everybody deserves to be seen, known, and loved. I disagree. Regardless of their trolling. But yeah, the thing with gold is you can look at the past performance and I compare it to that of the stock market and the returns are not great, kind of abysmal. You would have been way better off investing in mutual funds in the stock market over a long period of time. Now, what this is actually getting at is the fear and paranoia that, hey, if it all comes crashing down, gold will be our last symbol of hope.

I got news for you. If it comes crashing down. You're not going to want to trade my gold you're not walking around talking about how much gold you have haven't you seen one of those bad western movies i've seen i am legend right you're going to be going hey does anyone have food water bullets yeah fuel yeah exactly ammo that's the kind of stuff people actually so the idea that every single company in America is going to go bankrupt, because that's what you're saying.

If you're saying the stock market's going to go to zero, I'm going to lose it all, or the dollar is going to get so far devalued that my retirement account will be worth nothing, then you need to turn off the news. That's true. And get yourself a bunker. Yes. That's where these people are heading. And I don't think it's healthy. I don't think it's true. And get yourself a bunker. Yes. That's where these people are heading. And I don't think it's healthy. I don't think

it's realistic. And truthfully, if the whole thing's come crashing down, just take me. Let the good Lord just take me when I'm ready. I don't want to survive in this post-apocalyptic world. I'm with you. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to build myself a shanty. And, you know, I'll join you there. Live off the land. Yeah. You know.

So we found also that actual wealthy people, they don't hoard gold. They may have a little bit of precious metals, but I mean, Dave Ramsey himself. The only gold they have is on their wrist. Dave's wearing his watch, maybe a gold chain. Yeah, he's a chain guy. He's a chain guy. Yeah, I don't think people realize that. He likes the gold chain.

It's always there. I've seen it. So yeah, I would avoid this. The other problem with gold is resale as well. If you buy the gold for a certain price, you're not going to be able to necessarily sell it for that or more soon after. So I'm sticking to mutual funds in companies that have a good track record that will grow versus a fear-based investment like gold.

I love it. Good stuff. Let's go to Savannah now, who joins us in Phoenix, Arizona. Savannah, how can we help? Hello, yes. My husband and I don't have any debt. We have $17,000 in cash and we are at the beginning of step three. However, we need a truck. I'm just wondering if- Why do you need a truck? Yes, a truck.

Why? Why a truck? I'm just curious. For my husband's business. Okay. Yeah. So I'm wondering, how do we know how much we can afford for the truck? Do we spend all of the $17,000 on the truck and then start with step three after? What kind of truck are we talking about? Because trucks are really expensive.

They hold their value. They're overpriced, in my opinion, right now. So what are we talking about? Because trucks are really expensive. They hold their value. They're overpriced, in my opinion, right now. So what are you talking about? Well, ideally, we would want to find a truck and just pay it all in cash. My husband has other plans. He wants a Ford F-150, and the prices we're looking at are in the 30s. What kind of business does he have? It's taxidermy.

Okay. Why does he need an F-150 with all the bells and whistles for taxidermy? Right, he doesn't. He just needs a truck with a bed. Exactly. There's a lot of those. $30,000. I mean, listen, I could get on right now on this little computer here and find you trucks that'll get him from A to B and he can throw some dead animals in there or whatever it is that he does.

The idea of just hauling dead animals and then getting a really nice vehicle to do that in is kind of hilarious to me. Right. Agreed. You guys are out of debt. I wish he was on the phone with us right now because you guys are out of debt. You're at the beginning of Baby Step 3. You're so close that you don't want to just go blow it on a really fancy schmancy truck that he quite frankly doesn't need. But if he puts it off and he gets a basic truck, let's say something in the $10,000, $12,000 range. By the way, I just bought a fabulous george a fabulous ford explorer for my

son oh nice uh and it has 90 000 miles on it 12 grand fantastic condition bought it from a lady that's in her late 60s it can be done folks it can be done he he could get an suv here's the point he can get the nice truck later you guys are close. Don't go backwards right now by using all this cash on that truck. Am I right, George? Yeah, this money needs to be earmarked for your emergency fund, and then we'll begin saving up for this truck. So how soon does he need this truck? He needs it by September 1st.

What happens on September 1st? That's when all the hunts begin, and he needs to start picking up all the dead animals all right i got a question this is fascinating i have adhd so full confession everybody why can't they drop the animals off to him they're the ones i mean i listen my dad had two deer heads hanging in our house you know uh when i was a, and I think he took the deer to the taxidermist. Why does he have to go pick them up? Right. So his business is based up in the White Mountains, kind of close to Show Low, Arizona,

and we're living near Phoenix. So it's the traveling time to pick up the mouse where he has them dropped off at and then bring them down to where we're at. Okay. Well, I'll give you the parameters because I actually want to answer your question after we razzed you for the truck. So when it comes to buying a depreciating asset, a car, you want to make sure that everything with motors and wheels in it in your life is no more than half of your annual income. So what is your annual income? Oof. Okay. So I bring in 40K. However, I'm just on the turning end leave with the three-week old. So it's going to be a little bit less this year.

Okay. And then with his business, I would say he just started at this business last fall. So, I think he's making 15K with that. And then he'll pick up and sell insurance in the wintertime, and his base pay will be 15 an hour. Okay, so that's about 30K a year there, but he's only doing it part-time. I wonder if he needs to work full-time and do this on the side for now until he gets this thing kicked up, because right now it's going to be tough times for you guys

on top of trying to save up to buy this truck. But I will tell you, based on what you just told me, I'd get the cheapest truck possible. And I'm looking online right now, actual reality. Yeah, me too. And you can get early 2000 Ford F-150s for $6,000, $8,000, even a 2010 for $9,000. That would be the ballpark you're looking at here for a work truck to haul dead animals so if he's getting all starry-eyed because he went to the dealership he needs to slowly back away and keep his wallet tight where i can see it oh i like that george because he's about to make

a real dumb decision buying a shiny brand new truck when he has a startup business that it may not even make enough to feed his family while you're on maternity leave. So do not use the emergency fund for this. It is not an emergency. I don't care what he says. Scrounged up the eight or nine grand and get a used Ford F-150 or whatever truck. But please, please don't

upgrade until he's got this business running and moving and you guys are making really good money. Really good stuff. I love this. Just pulling up the used trucks for sale in Phoenix. Well, reality helps because people go, Ken, you can't find trucks under $28,000. Yes, you can.

There's all kinds of trucks. It's not the truck you want. And guess what? Trucks still run 20 years later. It's amazing how that works. Here's a Toyota Tundra, 182,000 miles. You know how long that'll run? It'll run for 700,000 miles, I'm told.

It will outlast me. You know, you and I, we'd never look good driving a truck. I take how long that'll run? It'll run for 700,000 miles, I'm told. It will outlast me. You know, you and I, we'd never look good driving a truck. I take offense to that. Yeah. Put me in a tundra. I don't know. We'll see. America needs to see it. More of your calls coming up next. This is

The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the number. If you want to jump in on the conversation, we'll take your questions about money, your work situation, which affects your money,

relationships that affect money, and beyond, 888-825-5225. Adrian's up next in, am I reading this right, Slatina, Romania? I don't know if I said that right, but we'll see. Adrian, how can we help? Yeah, that was about right. I'm 24. My wife and I both graduated university, and I've been working at the same time for about six or seven years

as a user interface designer. I'm making around $40,000 a year. Currently living in Romania, born and raised. We're building our house cash only. We don't have any debt. Uh, we're doing that just from what I'm working because my wife is babysitting at the moment. We have a one year old. Um, and I was just wondering, how can I, um, you know, keep up with working, providing for my family, and keeping my dream alive,

which my dream is to do as much music as I can, because I'm a musician at the core. I've been raised with music, and I love and enjoy music in general. Are you a musician only, or do you sing as well? So are you playing an instrument? What is it? Yeah, I'm playing the piano. I'm singing, and I'm also composing. Wow.

And so let's let out the whole dream, 15, 20, 30 years from now. If you could snap your fingers and make it so, what would that look like? I would really love to have as much meaningful music as possible uh into the world so people can enjoy it and can take comfort in it so you've got albums out yeah walk us are you do you want to be an artist do you want to be touring do you want to compose for film? Be a little more specific. Yeah. Actually, the dream is I have a classical background in music, and I'm doing all sorts of composition, waltzes, and classical music, basically. Okay, great.

Have you gotten anything out so far? Have you put anything out, whether it be on your own website? Have you gotten any contracts where you've written music for organizations or musical theater, anything like that? Yeah, I've actually recorded a single that's called Yesterday, and it's out on all streaming platforms. Sure. And how old are you again? 24. 24. Okay, so the question is, I've got to take care of my family,

and I want to keep this dream alive. And I love that. I actually have, you know, I know what that's like. When I started into broadcasting, Adrian, I was 33, three little ones, running my own company, a very small business, and I had the exact same situation. So you're going to have to treat your music like I treated my broadcasting. I was getting basic experience, getting knowledge. So I was taking some training courses. I took a few broadcasting classes on the side. I was running my business and working really hard to make sure that I was using my time wisely

so that I had more time to go, again, audition at times. I had to audition. I was doing radio on Saturdays, you know, and so you just a little bit at a time, but you never stop. And so you, the main thing is the main thing, taking care of your family, and you've got it, you're doing it. I think, I would guess even in Romania with this technology job that you have the opportunity to climb the ladder financially. Is that true? Yeah, that's true. I'm in the top 2%. Okay, so you want to keep climbing and keep taking care of the family, but keep producing music. And I would just challenge you to show your work. Try to get yourself, not just put out your own music, but can you sign up, you know, can you get some clients where maybe

you're scoring some music for local theaters, national stuff? How can I get my work? I just ran into an old buddy, George, by the name of Jim. I won't say his last name. And I hadn't seen him in years. And he has been scoring music for the Nashville Symphony. He does a lot of stuff all around the country working from his home scoring music, much like Adrian does.

So, Adrian, I want you to expand into trying to work more for other people because that's doing two things. You are doing the thing that you love, but you're getting paid for it. And then that allows you to stack up money so that long term, you're going to have a lot more freedom to actually put more of your own stuff out that's what i would tell you uh on the work side george you want to add anything to that financially yeah well as a former musician i mean i still am a musician but i was kind of doing what you were doing i put some albums out there i was doing live gigs and it's still a love of mine it's not something i wanted to pursue full time but for you i would say with the advent of the internet on top of what Ken said, which is,

you know, get connected to people who are actually in the craft, getting paid to do it and go to the places it's happening. The orchestra is wherever that is, but also with the internet. Now you can jump onto some amazing forums on, maybe there's a Reddit community, a Twitter community for this start a tick tock account and Instagram account

and start uploading videos of you playing and composing and breaking it down for people show them behind the scenes and you never know you start to build an audience over there and opportunities will start to happen for you but you have to put yourself out there even more you can't just upload a song to spotify and go well didn't happen you got to continue and persist for years and i wish you the best yeah thank you for the great dream i love it. You've got it. You're on your way, Adrian. Just don't quit. Best advice I could ever give someone who's got that kind of a dream. Let's go to Josh now in Lafayette, Louisiana. Josh, how can we help? Hey, gentlemen, it's good to be on with you. Thank you for taking my call.

You bet. So my current situation is I have, as my family has 30,000 in debt, um, student loan and a van loan as it stands right now, I'm a maintenance supervisor at a retirement facility and I make 50,000 per year and I'm not getting anywhere ahead. And I've been mulling over different ideas of how to increase my income. And I was just, yes, I mean, I have some thoughts, but I was hoping to get your guys' insight on avenues I could consider taking. How handy are you? I'm guessing you're fairly handy based on your job title.

Yes, yeah. If it were me and I were you, and I'm the least handy guy you've ever met in your life, I could barely use a screwdriver or a hammer. That's dangerous. But I would be looking for handyman jobs, odd jobs, stuff that you can do on the side, keep your main gig. But because people need stuff fixed all the time, there's a premium there, man. I just paid a sizable amount of money, Ken, for a handyman that was at my house for the last couple days. Right.

And let me tell you, Josh, you could double your income. That's exactly right. Because these handymen, they're not charging $20 an hour. No. They're charging $50, $60, even $90 an hour. Right. To do basic things. Yeah.

I mean, Josh, so that means you could find another facility that may not be able to pay you full time, but maybe they pay you half and you come and fix their stuff at night and weekends. And you live in a neighborhood, I assume, right? Yes, I do. If you've got a Facebook group or you leave little hangers on the door and you say, hey, I live in the neighborhood. I do handyman work. Here's my rate. Would love to help. You do one good job and the neighbors neighbors are all telling you, you've got to hire Josh. Oh, my gosh, he's the best. That's exactly right. He was professional. He showed up on time. And you can charge easily $50, $60 an hour.

Can I ask you guys a question on something else I've been considering? Real quick. We've got about a minute and a half. Yeah, sure. I was also thinking I had considered getting an LLC and opening up handyman work on the side. I had considered getting a real estate license. I figured that'd be a good way to get some additional work, moonlighting after work, and then also maybe market myself as a handyman. Is that even a

practical thought? I think it's going to take a lot of time and money. And unless it's something you're really passionate about, I wouldn't do it as easy money because that is real estate is nothing but getting started. But if that's something you really want to do long term, then you would want to make that transition. But I've talked to a lot of great real estate pros and coaches of real estate pros. At some point, you've got to go all in on that for that to work. I like you stacking cash, doing what you already do very, very well. Without having to pay for more schooling and licensing. Yeah, you're not paying anything.

You're just counting your money, baby, and getting ahead. We're really proud of you, Josh. You were on your way, sir. Hang up the phone. Start calling people. Hey, George Campbell, good hour. James Childs, our fearless leader, thank you, sir, and the team behind the glass. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Ken.

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