The Ramsey Show - App - Why the Pain of Financial Infidelity is Deep

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

What up, what up? This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by the great George Camel. Live from Nashville, Tennessee, we are taking your calls on your money, building wealth, doing work that you love, and creating and sustaining and hanging on to great relationships. So glad that you're with us today. We're taking live calls, 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225.

We have a packed house out here in the audience. Good to see everybody coming to visit us here in, actually we're in Franklin, just north of Nashville, but we are glad you are with us as well. Let's go out to Milwaukee. No, no, no, no. Let's go out to Dallas, detune and talk to Cyrus. Hey Cyrus, what's up man? Hello, how you doing? Doing outstanding, my man. What's up? So, yes, I am 26. I have $160,000 worth of debt, and I am wondering if I should file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Why'd you jump to that conclusion? What makes you think you can't crawl out of this. Well, I've been working a lot, two jobs, constantly. I'm not really able to get anywhere. Recently, about a year ago, I caught a case for a felony charge,

and I am still going on actively with uh, with that case trying to get probation. Um, so it's been very difficult for me to find another job now that my background check has shown a felony charge. Um, so what are you doing now for work? Yeah. So I'm working at Amazon. Um, I'm making, uh, about $4,100 a month at a minimum. I can potentially make more depending on if they allow me to get overtime or work a six day.

I'm working five days there as of right now. Last year I made $60,000 off of it, off of Amazon alone. But I'm just like drowning right now with payments and um i did um i rounded up all my minimum payments for all my loans and everything and my minimum is 5300 a month and that's just on minimum payments. That's not including food or rent or anything else. How have you made it so far? What's getting you through every month if you're going underwater? So how did I make it so far? Well, I've been doing... Are you going further into debt every month?

No, no. So I'm tapped out. I can't even get the debt consolidation loan. My credit is shot. What kind of debt is this? What is this debt, man? Can you break down the 160? Yeah. So I have a vehicle that's $51,000 left on it. $51,000?

Yeah. It's a Tesla Model Y Performer. Oh, not a Tesla. What's it worth? Yeah. Not $51,000? Yeah, it's a Tesla Model Y Performer. Oh, not a Tesla. What's it worth? Yeah. Not $51,000. $51,000. How much?

$35,000. Okay. What else? I have nine credit cards that are total of $55,000 worth of debt on that. Okay. And then I have the rest of my loans, which is $98,000, which is three personal loans and then my auto loan. Your other what?

My auto loan. Auto loan. You have another auto loan? No, no, no. It's the Tesla. Okay. So you got 51K on the car, nine credit cards that are 55K, and then the other, what is that, another 50 or 60 is in personal loans?

No. So total with the car, it's 98. So it would be another like 40 in personal. Okay. Where did all this money go what have you been spending on so we're talking 100k and just spending yeah to make a long story short um i i as i mentioned i had a three-year-old daughter. I was in a relationship with this woman. Basically, she was unfaithful to me. We broke up.

Ever since then, I've been trying to honestly repair our relationship for our child and also because it's a woman that I love and care about. Well, long story short, it's been years of nonstop taking on her debts, you know, paying, you know, for food. And basically living like two households the whole time.

And, yeah, basically just. So she's been scamming you for this. I mean, she's been just leeching off you all this time huh yes yes and now you know recently i got you know we you know uh i moved we basically broke up again and i'm left with all this and i just she doesn't want to make it work and i've been continuing trying to make it work for my child and I just this is where I'm at now making it work for your child is different than digging 150 160 thousand dollar hole trying to impress a girl yeah those are two different things and you have lied yourself for the last

two or three years saying I'm quote-unquote this for the baby. But you've been running around with your peacock feathers out trying to woo this woman. And man, she's been just happy to take your money, happy to take all your stuff. But it wasn't about that girl. And now again, I think you love your daughter. I think you're working as hard as you can. But man, you've got to let the fantasy of this woman go. It's burying you. What's this felony charge about?

So, it was, she had a guy in my apartment for the second time. Alright, let's do this. Let's stop there. I don't want you to say something that's going to get subpoenaed on the air. Let's just roll back to the money part. Is that cool? Are you living alone right now?

So, I was going back between my parents and her. I was in my car for a month. Last month, I was in for a whole month just because I couldn't go back to either one. So now I am back with my parents. They stopped drinking, supposedly. So I'm there for now. And this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy, just because I have a case going on, I'm in an unstable household,

I can't rely on nobody right now. I'm a worker. Two years ago, I made $93,000 working doubles. I've been working nonstop two jobs for the last three years but bro if you if you if you make 98 three years in a row you're out no no not three years in a row no no i'm telling you like i want you to hear george and i say we believe in you if you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling, you'll be out. You'll be free. Listen to me.

You'll be free. If you file bankruptcy, you're putting a chain around your neck and you're jumping into a lake. Yeah. The problem I have is I've been applying for jobs in my record with the felony charge. I got it. I got it. The deck is is

firmly stacked against you until you get that clear 100 yeah but i have never one time um i've i mean i've never uh the guy who mows my lawn i don't know if he's got a felony charge he just does a great job right i mean there's work to be had it's not traditional work and it's not fun work and it is hard grinding hot cold work but there's work what? I mean, there's work to be had. It's not traditional work and it's not fun work and it is hard grinding, hot, cold work, but there's work. What do you think, George? Yeah, there's no shortcuts here. We got to get your income up ASAP. I would not file bankruptcy. You can get out of this, but it's going to take three years of hustle throwing 50 grand at the debt. And that means getting that income up. And man, you're going to have to get creative. You might have to get a roommate or two, keep living with the parents, do what you got to do, but

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taking your calls on money and work and life, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on. I've got this QZ.com. Looks like an internet-y article, but here's what it says. It says, talking about money makes people more uncomfortable than talking about politics and religion, says the survey here. That's actually been, George, that's one of my uh personal experiences sitting with hurting people man um i remember back to i've talked about this on the show i remember back to my practicum days when i was seeing clients and people talk about every everything um their

past their future like like really hard stuff partners they've had, like everything. Did not want to talk about debt, money. It just was too sensitive of a topic. I think, is it too personal? Is there too much shame and baggage connected to that? Versus politics and religion, there's just like a tribe you're sort of connected to. Yeah, that's the only thing I've been able to distill down. And again, I'm just speculating here is, one, politics, religion, questions about sex, intimacy. All those are tribal, right?

You can get on the internet and find a gang, right? When it comes to your money, when you distill all the way down, there's that one question, what are you worth? And there's just nowhere to hide. It's just you. And how much money have you earned? What vacations have you gone on or not gone on? How much debt do you have?

How much do you owe? It just all comes down. And I think we put so much pressure on that one number. And here's what I hate about it. I mean, there's an old saying among counselors and therapists, secrets will kill you, right? And so if you are out there talking about stuff and trying to get well and get healthy,

but you can't, you feel so much shame around how much money you owe, or I don't even know how the stuff works. And I wish, you know what, it comes to the mechanics of it. I wish people would believe me when I tell people I co-host this show and I text you on Saturdays asking you about a particular fund, or I, you or I text or talk to Dave about this particular question, we're always asking each other stuff. But I think there's an illusion

that if you have a show or if you're on the internet, you know everything about everything. So I feel embarrassed and I'm just not going to ask anybody anything. People just sit in it and they just keep making the same choices over and over and they look up

like the last caller and they're 160 grand in the hole, right? It's a zoo, man. It's a zoo. It's wild. Yeah, I mean, on The Ramsey Show, over. They look up, like the last caller, and they're $160,000 in the hole. Right? It's a zoo, man. It's a zoo. That is wild. Yeah, I mean, on The Ramsey Show, we're trying to make talking about money normal in a good way. There's things that you shouldn't share at Thanksgiving dinner.

It says here, only 14% said money is a normal topic at holiday gatherings as friends and family. Good. Don't go home. I think it should be lower than that. Yeah, don't go home and be like, all right, we're going to go around the table, we're going to pass the rolls, Aunt Janet, and then we're going to see everybody tell everybody what they make. Who has the most debt? Yeah, who made the most money this year?

Let's go, Bill. Yeah, Dave Ramsey's not sitting around the Thanksgiving table talking about, hey guys, what's your favorite mutual fund lately? Let's talk returns. Yeah, and I guess he could go around the table and ask everybody what they make, but all his kids work for him, so he kind of knows, right? He knows. He knows.

He knows. But the survey said 62% of people were highly uncomfortable sharing their financial details with friends and family. 38% said they're comfortable sharing bank information with family members and close friends. That should be 0%. Bank information? I mean, that's private. It's like saying, well, I don't want to share my Social Security number. I'm uncomfortable talking about. Yeah, that's private. It's like saying, well, I don't want to share my social security number. I'm uncomfortable talking about.

Yeah, that's a little personal. But I do think we should talk about money goals, money challenges. We don't have to get into specifics. But, you know, we talk about this with relationships. It's good to talk about money values early on. You don't need to get into here's how much debt I have, here's how much I make on the first date. But it's important to see, hey, what was money like for you growing up?

And I also think this, though, george i do think i can see money is such a sensitive topic that i can imagine going home and saying hey had a great year and you got one family member that's like oh oh did we now oh george is so rich right or that's immediately followed by you know a cousin be like hey man i need a i need 40 bucks can i right so i get it but that when everybody's sitting on a table or everyone's sitting on a friend group is hold on to something like hey i'm scared yeah right or like i don't know how i'm gonna make my payments or hey i had a really good year can i celebrate with somebody i'll tell you this the first year um own your past change your future at number one it was a good

year I never had anything like it I'm a cop's kid right my dad was a cop and a minister my wife was raised by school teachers it was a new year for us I called one friend I was like I just need to tell somebody and it was a cool little moment he's a banker and so I can never catch him but he was like that's like but it was a cool moment to celebrate and so you've got to have people you talk about things you're scared about talk about things that you're that you can celebrate together absolutely well i imagine there's a spectrum from if you're broke and you talk about money there's a lot of shame and if you're super well off and you talk about money there's a lot of guilt

and so is there like this middle ground of everyone else is like hey we'll talk about i don't care yeah so i think for me it comes back to you've got to find some people you've got to find some people and it doesn't have to be your family um doesn't have to be your immediate group of friends but you need to find some people that you can have conversations about politics about your faith about this one says 71 percent of people are more comfortable commenting on their weight 81 said they're comfortable discussing their health. 78% said they openly discussed their political opinions or affiliation. 81% said they would openly discuss their religious views. And we ain't talking about money, right?

So we've got to have places where we can just fully let our hair down and say, I'm not all right. Or can we just cheer for a second? And there's a right way to do it. I personally, as much as I talk about money for work, I don't do it unsolicited. I don't just like hang out with friends. I'm like, hey man, let's talk about your financial goals. Where are we at?

I only talk about money when I'm asked about it or when people are openly sharing and they're looking for an opinion. There you go. And I think that's the important part. No one's looking for opinion. Even if you're like the Ramsey, you know, die diehard fan it's not the time to just like ram it down their throat be like you better follow the ramsay plan or else yeah nobody's excited by that yeah

or meeting somebody in the grocery store being like guess what i'm a millionaire and they're like yeah dude i can't i'm i can't afford eggs right so there's a balance to it but i do love when someone passes me in Costco and they don't even say hi. They just go, paying cash for that? And they just keep walking. And it's just like an unspoken language we have together. So great.

Well, good on you. I was at a jeweler and the girl there- Ooh, that's a flex. That was a good- I was getting a watch repaired, John. Okay, sure. And she immediately, it was like, I realized I was like a priest.

It was a confessional. She saw me and she went, I have a car loan, but it's not that much. It's the only thing I have. There's $22,000 left. I'm working hard to pay. I was like, whoa, hey, release the guilt, Elise. Come on. So she's working on it.

I gave her a book and she's on the path. And so now she reports back anytime I see her. It's great. Money confessional. I won't even tell you some of the strange conversations I've had waiting in airport lines and in bathrooms and i can't i mean i talk about money you're talking about mental health relationships intimacy the things people probably share with you unsolicited i i will i can't possibly be top sitting at an airport i'm pretty sure not in a bathroom please tell me that's happened a few times in the bathroom oh no i got a stall i thought there was an unspoken like guy rule bro you just stare at the tile right ahead of you we all know that

you stare at the tile but i've had two different times someone looks over and they're like oh hey you're on that show and i'm like just look at the tile man and they're like hey you know so me and my wife and it's like not a good time and they're like they're always great like oh you're right you're right you're right and i understand people get excited but um i have had one in the in the in a airport in dfw airport i think it was dallas love field when a couple came up and just started talking about their sex life it was just live therapy i looked at i was like it's not just not great time like i'm super like it means the world to me all the time to the show, but kind of weird. And you can see it as they're talking. Yeah, we just made this exchange super weird.

We're just going to go to Whataburger and call it, guys. Good to see you guys. So lesson learned here. There's a context and a place and environment, a group that it's wise to talk about this stuff. And then other times there's good reason not to talk about it. But I will say, you have to find people that you can talk about hard things with, period. I think that's why Financial Peace University has been so powerful over the last 30 years. It's called people into a room.

You show up and you go, oh, I'm not the only knucklehead that made mistakes. Oh, okay, we're all in this thing together. Oh, we're not going to just sit here and ridicule each other's mistakes. We're going to just focus on getting better. Wonderful. And you get to weep together. And every week you walk in and you see an increasingly familiar group of people that's all doing hard stuff together. And you'll celebrate together.

And I actually think that's an unspoken curse on our current generation is everybody talks about their problems. Like, what happened? Who said this? Can you believe this? Oh, my gosh. So-and-so's running for president. None of us, or very few of us, have people they can call and just be like, hey, can I just say something awesome happened today? My marriage is amazing. My kid's doing

great. Can I just say that out loud? And we cheer each other on, right? So find people that you can tell the hard stuff to, but also find people you can tell the great stuff to, especially about your money. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Hey, you guys. I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt

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But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Hey, guess what? We just launched a brand new tour. Me, John Deloney, and my buddy Dave Ramsey are hitting the road, coming to a city near you for the Money and Relationships Tour. It's six cities. It's the raddest theaters in the nation. And we're putting a new twist on it.

Every stop is going to be an interactive night where you as the audience are going to vote on what we talk about. So if you're, if you see the list of things, we're going to put some topics up and y'all get to pick from 20 or 30. I don't know how many they're going to be up there. And it's just going to be like, all right, here we go. Let's go. And so that way we don't come to you and play the songs that we want to play. We're going to come and we're going to play the songs that you guys want to hear. When we talk about money and relationships and so much more, every night is going to be different. I promise you, you're going to laugh. I promise you, if we do our jobs, you're going to play the songs that you guys want to hear. We'll be talking about money and relationships and so much more. Every night is going to be different. I promise you you're going to laugh.

I promise you if we do our jobs, you're going to leave with some action items to go change your life and probably shed a tear or two as well. We're going to have a blast. We're kicking off in Louisville on April 21st, 2025, and then hitting up Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Early bird pricing is happening right now. Get your tickets to the

Money Relationships Tour at ramsaysolutions.com slash tour. ramsaysolutions.com slash tour. And if you're checking this out on YouTube or podcast, it's in the show notes. Alright, let's go out to Milwaukee and talk to Alex. What up, Alex? How we doing?

Hey, how you doing? Doing alright brother, what's up? I was calling Because I just I do pretty well I do pretty well compared to everybody else And I just feel like I'm stuck What does that mean?

What is pretty well compared to everybody else? I make probably close to $400,000 a year. That puts you in the top 1% of any human who's ever existed in human history. I guess

I'm just an ambitious person. I kind of feel stuck. I don't know what to do if I continue to grow. I've done a couple of different things and they didn't pan out very well and i failed at them but done a couple other things that are well what do you do for a living learn so um my main income is i own a restaurant and then my other couple things i do i also own a lube and then i also do real estate a A real estate. No, the one before that.

A lube, a quick lube. Oh, okay. Now, I didn't know the industry lingo. Okay, that helps me. What's a quick lube? Yeah. A quick lube. Oil chain.

A quick lube. L-U-B-E. There you go. Yep. Yeah. I thought you were talking about those sleds that they have at the Bob's sledding thing. I thought you were talking about you're French and you owned the Louvre Art Museum. Oh, yeah.

Okay. All right. Okay. Sweet. So successful entrepreneur. Yeah. Which one of these is your main breadwinner? Yes.

The Rush Art. Okay. And what's your question? My question is how I continue to grow. I've experienced a couple of failures in the last couple of years with opening new businesses And what's your question? My question is how I continue to grow. I've experienced a couple of failures in the last couple of years with opening new businesses, and they didn't turn well. I don't really understand, like, Roth RHAs and all that kind of stuff. Like, my concept has always been invest in stuff.

What do you mean grow? Like, are you talking about you want to invest in retirement? Are we talking about growing your income? Yeah, in the medical community, unchecked growth is called cancer. So if you just wake up every day like, I got to grow, I got to grow, like you're going to implode. What are you aiming for? What are you trying to get to? I just want to grow as a business person.

I want to be able to create generational wealth. And I know some people might feel like I've already done that, but I just feel like I still have so much more to accomplish. Yeah, I know, but it sounds like you're running from something. What are you running from? Because listen, Dave Ramsey is worth a god-awful amount of money. And he is obsessed

pathologically with helping hurting people. And money is just the byproduct of this obsession to help people be free. You have an obsession right now with, I got to get more, and I got to get more, and I got to get more. And usually for guys like you, that comes at the expense of their families, of their romantic partners, of their kids, of their health, of everything. And that's true. Me and my wife had some problems a couple years ago,

and I realigned my priorities with my family, and that's gotten a lot better, and everything got fixed, and we're a lot happier. Bro, you know how I know everything didn't get fixed? Because I've been married for 20-something years. It's not like a car engine. It's something you continue to grow together with.

What's your ultimate question? What are you running from? What are you scared of? No, I think I just What is driving the insatiable need for growth? It sounds like you watched a Grant Cardone video and now you're just like, bro, I got a 10x!

I got a 10x! What is behind this? You make $400,000 a year. Exhale. I don't know if it's competition. I'm not envious of anybody, but I look at my peers, and I feel like I should be doing better. That's the definition of envy. That's what it is. What I mean is, like, what I'm trying to say is, like, I'm not mad at what they have. I just, like, I'm happy for them, and I'd like to learn. I'd like to learn.

I like to hear people talk that do better than me. I want to learn. It's not that I wish them better. I want to, like, oh, I'm angry at them. It's nothing like that. It's just my, it's like I'm competitive that way in this regard. All right, here's your homework. You ready for your homework?

You're not going to like it. Yeah. Promise me. Say, I promise I'll do whatever you tell me. I promise I'll do what you tell me. All right. You just said that in front of millions of people. If you lie, you'll probably get struck by lightning. Probably not, but it's just fun to say that. All right. Number one, you cannot get on TikTok or Instagram for 30 days. I don't do those anyway. I'm just telling you. Number one, no social media for 30 days. Number

two, you have to go for a walk with your wife in the morning or in the evening with no phones, no devices for at least 30 minutes every day for 30 days. Number two, how many kids you got? Four. Number three, how many kids you got? I got four. You have four kids? How old? I got twins that are four and then a five and a six-year-old. Okay. When I ask you what you're running from, one of the most common questions I hear, or common answers I get from high-performing dads, and when I say high-performing, high-earner dads, is that they look at the chaos at home and they don't know what to do.

They don't know how to be a dad of four kids. They don't know how to be a husband of a wife of four kids. It's just chaos. And they think in their heads, the greatest gift I could give my family is to not be here and instead to go make money. And if you are making money to help people, if you're making money to change a generational situation, go get it. If you're hiding from your family, stop. So I want you to plan something with each one of those kids. And it could be five minutes or 10 minutes.

I want you to practice plugging in at your home. Do bedtimes. Not for 30 days, not for the rest of your life. I'm not telling you to, if anyone makes 400 grand, you need to stop what you're doing. That's not what I'm saying at all. But if you had a desire in your heart to provide good oil change services for people to provide excellent food for people i would tell you george will walk you through how to do all that

but i don't hear that i hear you running dude and running and running and those four kids at some point are going to start asking what was so amazing about that restaurant that he gave it up gave us up for that thing do you get what i'm saying yeah i just want you to exhale for a second and dude i want you to make five million dollars a year it's not it's not about the money it's about george and i can hear in your voice man you're not comfortable in your own skin you're doing a pretty amazing job here's the best question to ask yourself Alex I've talked and hung out with all these people who are very successful young guys making crazy money net worth of 20 million dollars

and the question I think is so powerful for you to ask is this two questions or three words and then what I make 500,000 and then what I make a million and then what then I start five more businesses and then what you make 500 000 and then what i make a million and then what then i start five more businesses and then what you see where that's getting to there's no real purpose behind it other than well because more is better it's like a toddler mentality right yeah at some point we have to learn also how to be content and how to have peace otherwise it's going to destroy you against that 400 grand how much do you owe? How much money do you owe?

I don't know what substantial amount, but it doesn't come out of my personal earnings because my real estate pays for it all. I buy property that always put 20% down. How leveraged are you? All in all, with everything, my personal and financial and work stuff, I'm probably like all in all, like with everything, my personal and, you know, financial and work stuff, I'm probably like 1.1. Okay. Here's what you're doing. You're sitting on a time bomb, brother.

You owe $1.1 million. And I know the TikTok bros and Instagram bros like, bro, you gotta leverage this to borrow this. The bank's going to arbitrage. You're sitting on a bomb and you know who knows it your nervous system you're nervous gotta slow down brother hang on the line i'm gonna send you financial peace university on us i want you to watch it control all delete get some peace in your life we'll be right back

welcome back to the ramsey show i I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. Hey, we've all made money mistakes. If you have defaulted private student loans, we're not judging you. George might be judging you, but I'm not judging you. But we are saying you can do something about it. Contact WhyRefi. WhyRefi was created for people in your exact situation. judging you. But we are saying you can do something about it. Contact Y Refi. Y Refi was created for people in your exact situation. Go to Y Refi dot com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y

R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey to check it out. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Declan in Washington. Together, my wife and I earn around $300,000 a year. We both enjoy buying and building Legos together and with our sons. We have a large Lego collection, which I've been working on since I was a little kid. We're in baby steps four, five, and six. How much money is too much money to spend on hobbies like Legos? We've been spending $400 to $800 a month for the last six or so months. It's been a blast and has provided some really great quality time for our family. Great question. So regardless if you're into Legos, it's a good question.

How much should you spend on hobbies in the budget? People want parameters. They want the percentage. How much is too much? That's a good question for me. I'm not a Legos guy, but I like just, I don't know, it's like buying stuff. So yeah, help me out, George. On behalf of the Declans and the Johns of the world, is there a percentage?

Yeah, the bad news is I cannot give you a prescriptive percentage because that would be insane. Like if you make a million dollars, it's okay to spend $100,000 on your hobby. And if you make $20,000, you can only spend $200,000. So what I would say is if it feels like it's too much that's probably a good gut check your body saying hey let's let's slow down now these people make 300 thousand dollars they're in baby steps four five six meaning they're debt free with an emergency fund and therefore if that's where they want to spend their money that's totally fine with me

and it's not that's probably a shocking answer because here's the thing some people are really into golf some of these golf memberships, these country clubs. You're paying more than $400 a month. It's $800 a month just for the pleasure of being part of the country club. No, that's what it costs to sneeze on the course. Exactly. $800. It's an initiation fee of your firstborn child, I think.

And so I don't judge people's decisions for what they spend their money on and their hobbies. What I do judge is if they're going into debt for it and if they're doing it at the expense of their financial future. There you go. So I would say four to 800 bucks just on a gut check when you make 300 grand a year, you're probably making, we're talking what, 15 to 20 grand a month. So to spend 800 bucks as a percentage, you're talking that's a fraction of your world. So I would say if that's what you're into right now, go for it. It probably won't be a forever hobby that you spend eight hundred dollars a month for the next 20 years i also want to say this um here's where i'm in support of declan here declan did not try like i have been guilty of with like my guitars or other people or with their beanie babies or

whatever um is trying to say, I spend this money, but it's somehow an investment. I love that Declan just straight up said, I love doing this with my family. It's a way we bring ourselves together. I've been doing this since I was a kid. I love it. We're pretty much loaded. And is this okay? And for me, it doesn't sound like there's a pathology around it. You're not trying to justify it. You're not trying to like twist up some magical story about how this is all going to work out for you financially in the end. This is just, dude, I like doing it. We make a ton of money. I'm assuming you're putting money away in four, five, and six. I'm assuming you're super generous. Can I tell you, um, here's a balance I've struck with myself. Um, I still have a lot

of, um, I don't know, purchasing guilt purchasing guilt if you will just because how I grew up we grew up with that a lot and so maybe come up with an arrangement that I'm going to buy some Legos but I'm going to give extra right I'm going to tip extra this month or I've made some deals with myself to as a way

to it's a it's a it's not real I just made it up it's just for me but it's a I'm going to buy this guitar, but I'm going to be extra generous in these other areas, as a way to balance the costs. That's a great point. And for me, I'm pretty goal-oriented. So if I had a mortgage to pay off

and college to save up for, I would say, all right, we're going to limit this to 400 a month, anything above and beyond that, we're going to throw toward the mortgage. There you go. And maybe pay the mortgage principal first, that extra, before we buy the Legos, and whatever's left becomes the play

Lego money. Becomes Lego money, that's right. And so I think that is a better approach to it if you did want some balance. And again, I see a mortgage payment, I see the interest tracking up, I'm less likely to want to go buy an extra $400. That's my hobby, right? Then baby step seven, now we get to do some crazy outrageous things, because we don't

owe anyone money with your legos college is covered all right let's go out to pensacola and talk to ryan hey ryan what's up dude hey guys how's it going doing all right brother what's up hey so uh my situation now is my wife is no longer working full-time uh she just gave birth to our second child a few months ago and yeah we've got a two and a half year old son already hey ryan i get a lot of grief for interrupting but can i interrupt you real quick sure go ahead just no one's listening just me and you real quick let's rephrase how you said that okay the way you phrased that was well my wife quit working she gave birth to a kid like

as though she messed something up so let's flip it around hey dude this is so exciting we just had our second kid and my wife is is staying home with the baby say it like that okay well that's all right so we just had our second child and my wife is for the most part staying home with the baby amazing that's awesome way to to go, dude. Very cool. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, get to your question. Yeah, so we've got a substantial amount of debt. We have been kind of living a little bit above our means,

but it has been manageable when we were both working full-time. Now I'm the primary moneymaker know, moneymaker in the house. And, you know, things are starting to stack up now. We've kind of burned through our savings over the past year. And so now we're kind of looking at what can we do to, you know, kind of lower our monthly expenses. We've already trimmed the fat as much as we can. I don't play golf on the weekends anymore.

We don't go out golf on the weekends anymore. We don't go out to eat at restaurants anymore. I've got our grocery bill down pretty low every month, but it's still getting a little out of hand. What's out of hand? Is it your minimum debt payments? What is your total debt? Is your wife spending a lot of money? Yeah, so most of our debt is tied up in two vehicle payments that are both

upside down. Um, and how upside down five grand or 20 grand, uh, her car is, uh, we have a 23,000 on it and it's worth about 17. Um, and my truck, we have 15,000 on it and it's worth about $17,000. In my truck, we owe $15,000 on, and it's worth about $12,000. Okay. And is that private party value? How'd you get to those numbers of what it's worth? Yeah, private party value on KBB. Okay. So we have a deficit here of $9,000. What's left in savings, if anything? Nothing. So there was about $4,000 in savings a year ago and we've just been eating through that slowly trying to keep up with things

we've got a personal loan that's 9,000 and I've got a credit card that's 2,500 and then we've got various little small credit cards that I'll total up to about a grand I'm going to let George walk you through the nuts and bolts but I just want to say this and I'm going to get some hate for it but it is what it is

you all have created a world for yourselves I'm going to let George walk you through the nuts and bolts, but I just want to say this, and I'm going to get some hate for it, but it is what it is. Y'all have created a world for yourselves where staying at home may not be an option for a season. It's a math problem. It's not a values problem. It's a math problem. Y'all owe a ton of money. If she was making $4K a month and daycare is $2,500, that's $1,500 extra dollars we can put toward debt.

You see the math there? Right. Thankfully, my wife is working part-time at the preschool my son goes to, so we get a discount there. Yeah, but it's not cutting it, though. It's not working. You have a math problem. And it's because of the life you all lived before you had kids. Right, right.

So here's a few things you can do. Number one, cut up the credit cards yesterday. Get on an every dollar budget yesterday. I'll give it to you for free if you'll use it. And you're going to list out your income, then list out all of your expenses. And anything that isn't food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance, or minimum debt payments, it's gone. And on top of that, we need to go figure out ways to make more. And that might mean, hey, dad's going to have to go after work to deliver pizzas or do Uber or whatever overtime you can do in order to make this work.

But it sounds like you guys have, my guess is about $40,000, $50,000 in debt. How much do you make? I make, with overtime and commissions, I make $55,000 a year. Yeah, you've got to make more money, brother. $25 an hour, about 45 hours a week. We need to figure out how to create at least $2,000 in margin so that in a year we throw $24,000 at it, this thing's done in two years. That's the math problem you guys need to figure out, and that might mean she goes back to work for a season. Yeah, and it might mean

you're working seven days a week for the next two years, man, to dig out of this hole. And for everybody listening, man, I'm telling you, the debt's not worth it. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be back next hour, right here. What's going

on? What's going on? I'm John with my good friend George Camel, and this is The Ramsey Show live from Nashville, Tennessee. We are taking your calls on money, on building wealth, on your relationships, on your work, whatever you got going on in your life. 888-825-5225. George and I will sit with you. We'll listen.

We'll figure out the next right step. We'll go to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Cruz. What's up, Cruz? Hi. How are we doing? I'm doing good. Excellent, brother. What's up, man?

So I'm 20 years old. Got married right out of high school, and I'm currently working at a church doing maintenance and stuff around minimum wage. What's minimum wage? Actually, I'm a little above. I think I'm making $16 an hour. Okay. So my wife works as well, so I think our monthly take comes around $4,000. But it's really expensive out here in Phoenix,

so I'm wondering if I need to maybe look into somewhere I can make more money or if I should move somewhere cheaper or I don't know. I'm going to let George handle the dollars and cents, but can I just use you as a, as a case study for what's going on in America right now? Sure. I feel like we've all been told, particularly those age 40 to 20,

that you have a right to work whatever job you want to work and live wherever you want to live in whatever city you want to work and live wherever you want to live in whatever city you want to live whatever neighborhood you want to live even um and that it should work out and i love your humility man you're you're you're doing literally the lord's work man you're cleaning toilets and fixing light bulbs and i was a maintenance man at a church for years you're doing good work behind the scenes, man. And you live in an expensive place. And so now you've got this math problem, right?

Yeah. And it's frustrating because you like the work you do and you do good work and you help people out and you're working for a bigger mission than just getting wealthy. And you probably have friends and community and family in Arizona, is that right? In Phoenix? Yeah, yeah, that's right.

I hate that for you, brother. But yeah, you're running up against, and I appreciate you just being open about it. You're running up against a problem that everyone's running up against, which is I wanted to live here, I wanted to do this job, and the math isn't working.

And George and I were just talking off air. George gets roasted alive for suggesting, well, you have to make a change you don't understand you're an idiot you don't care about me no it's i love you enough to say it's a math problem like it's just a math problem just is so um man what do you think george what does your wife think about this is she open to moving is she open to you switching careers and kind of having a big life change well uh i mean we talk about it, but we are really connected here. You know, all our families here, we have deep friendships at our church. And,

you know, so it would be a hard thing and we wouldn't know where to go. And as for a career change, I don't know what else I would want to do in life currently. Well, we can help with that. I'm going to make sure before you get off the line, we give you Ken's new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It includes a get clear career assessment, and it'll hope you get some gears turning about what you were really wired to do on this earth to make an impact. And it might mean, hey, I got to leave the church. I'm going to go do this other thing. I'm going to get this education, this credential. And for now, it might mean I'm going to go to Target and pick up a job making $20 an hour instead of $16, because that $4 an hour is an extra $8,000 a year that we can use to get closer to our goals. So what is your next financial goal?

Do you guys have debt? Do you have savings? Yeah, we got about a little over $2,000 in medical debt that we should be able to pay off soon. And we ran into a car problem and lost our baby step one. So we got to build that up again. So that's it. You just have two grand in medical debt? Yeah. So the debt is not the thing holding you back. It's not like if you were debt-free, we can have our best life. We need to get the income up in order to live.

What's your rent right now? Right now I got it at $1,200, but in reality I'm renting like a little house from my parents on their property. So it's sort of like artificially deflated rent? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So let's say we kept this rental situation until we got the better-paying job, got out of the debt, got an emergency fund. Is that a good exit strategy? I think. I don't know. I don't know.

Just looking out here, cheapest rent you can find, $1,600 or $1,800 plus. For a one-bedroom? Yeah, for a one-bedroom. What does your wife do, And what does she make? She also helps with the church preschool and she works at a Starbucks. And she makes probably about as much as I do. Overall, we bring in four grand a month. So Cruz, I'm going to speak directly to you

because I love you, okay? You're faced with a couple of challenges that really are not going to move. It's just expensive to live in Phoenix. Everyone in America wants to be hot all the time, I guess. And working at the church pays $60 an hour. It's a job. It's not a career. And I want you guys to both sink your teeth into a career.

Even if that's you, man, you're handy. You could go start a handyman business in Phoenix and charge 50 to 75 bucks an hour. Do you believe that? I'm sure I could figure that out. You could even tell the people at the church and say, listen, I'm available for hire. I'm 60 bucks an hour. I do good, reliable work. I was going to say you can mow lawns, but the grass doesn't grow in Phoenix, but you can shovel rocks, right? But listen, here's the thing. You'll quadruple your income

tomorrow if you do that. Can I just talk to you? Well, you call, so I am going to talk to you. Dude, you can't just sit at home and go, well, you know, huh? You deserve more than that. You know what I mean? I feel, I can hear you just feel trapped. You lost your mojo, man. When's the last time Cruz was real pumped about something? Fired up?

What was it? Probably. Was it a project? Something you were doing? Back in high school when I was renovating the house I live in now

and getting married and I got this job at the church and yeah all right here's what you were doing you were building something you're building towards your future you and your wife go out tonight you don't have a lot of money to spend but go do something even if it's going for a walk on a park bench or something and y'all map out where you want to be in two and a half years just pick a number man and almost be a little bit

unrealistic about it and then i want you to get on the phone tomorrow and call target and call walmart and call mcdonald's call everybody because you can serve that church on a volunteer basis when you can breathe when your wife can breathe you got stability in your house but the mopey like oh well i don't harm it dude you're gonna look up in two years and your problem is gonna be here and you're gonna have a kid on the way yeah yeah i worry about that sometimes okay then here's what we didn't want to do i'm going to stop worrying about it and i want you to take action take action take action take action, take action. Okay. Five applications.

But by the time you go to bed tonight, 10 applications tomorrow, let's see what you can cobble together work wise and just go make some money. And what you're going to find is I don't like retail. I love retail. Oh, this guy who I'm working for at retail needs somebody to help with a bathroom model. I can do that. And now you're off to the races. Or George said like, man, call somebody at man, put the call out at your church. I'm here to help anybody do anything

after hours. And here's what I charge. I charge 40 bucks an hour and I'm the best there is. And I'll be on time and I'll finish below budget. Man, you'll have more work than you know what to do with, but you got to go, you got to go, you got to go, you got to go. We can't want this more than you do. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's find the work you're wired to do. Be sure to take the Get Clear Career Assessment inside of that. I think it will unlock some really cool things for you. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy.

So, if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance. Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month.

So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney joined by Jorge Camel. And hey, listen, you want some more money and less stress? Of course we all do. But if you scroll and scroll and scroll, George,

you get more and more madness and madness and madness and madness. And thankfully, you used this wild thing that's not available very often, which is called Common Sense and Research and Data, for your new book, Breaking Free from Broke, which exposes the most common money myths and excuses head on, like credit card schemes and investing traps and mortgage myths and all of it. It's all the stuff they wish they taught you in high school or that I wish Instagram got correct.

Man. This is the financial literacy that you're like, oh, okay. Never got this 20 years ago, but it's not too late to get it now. Or, hey, I'm fresh out of college. I want to avoid all the mistakes. Can someone just cut through the noise

and tell me the truth? Yes. And that's what this book was. And the reviews have been amazing, John, because people are telling me, dude, you convinced me to finally cut up the cards. You convinced me that it's not as bad as I thought and that I'm in more control than I thought. Well, it's one of those things where if you look around and everyone who's giving you

advice is either broke or miserable or so anxious they can't breathe. It's like there's this guy smiling on the cover. Maybe I'll try that one, right? And it's actual truth. You'll gain knowledge and confidence to break free from a system that let you down. Here, can I tell you this? This is totally aside from this commercial I'm doing for your book. It's so ironic to me that people that get the most mad at you

are the ones you're literally you're you're like it's like their bike has been chained up to a fence and you've got the chain cutters and you're like excuse me please can i can i free your bike and they're like no no and you're like and i'm just trying to i'm just i just want you to be able to go home and ride your bike wherever you want to can i just cut this and they're like no it's those people you're trying to help are the ones that get so mad it is wild out there but i kind of you know part of it it's those people you're trying to help are the ones that get so mad. It is wild out there. But I kind of, you know, part of it, it's what Dave's been doing for 30 years, is stirring up a ruckus by telling people to, like, live on less than they make.

And it, you know, really riles them up. No one tells me how to live my life. That's right. And so I try to do it with a dose of humor and self-awareness and get to the objection in your head before you do. And this book, I feel like, is the modern version of, here's 30 plus years of the Ramsey Principles to still down through this millennial sort of younger lens

that isn't yelling at you. Right. But it's kind of a snarky, like, hey, man, come on. Yeah. We can do better. And they still work. They still work. They still work.

Still works. Ramseysolutions.com slash door. What were you going to say? Well, we wanted to make sure this book was practical. So we included for free three months of the premium version of EveryDollar, which is our number one budgeting app. So you get to connect to your bank. You get the paycheck planning tool, all the fancy stuff the team's throwing in there. You get three months of it with the book. There's a QR code inside you can check out. So get the copy today, ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Click the link in the

description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. And if you've checked it out and you love it, make sure to spread the word and send one to a friend who could use it. It's Christmas time. People are going to need it. Let's go out to Chi-town and talk to Chris. What up, Chris? How are we doing? Hello?

Hey, Chris. Hey. What's up? Well, hey, I want to know a couple things. Okay. We have some debt. We have some debt. So finding out that as a couple we have about $575,000 in debt.

I don't have a job. How much of that debt's your mortgage? Our mortgage is $332,000 and a second mortgage at $65,000. Which ones did you know about? I knew about that and I thought we probably had some credit card debt, but I didn't know it was this significant. Was this done behind your back or is this you're not paying attention? I hear in your voice you're trying very much to not dishonor your husband by telling the truth that he borrowed a whole bunch of money behind your back

and hadn't told you the truth. Yeah, well, correct. And he also took out about $80,000, I think, in our 401k that he didn't tell me about. What is he spending this on? He is spending it on, I believe, our paying, what do they say, robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think we're just cycling that. What did he use it to pay? Not this much. Cars, probably some vacations that I didn't really understand weren't real money, but credit card money.

My daughter's at college, and we're paying for that. We're paying for all her expenses. She's in her fourth year. She's a senior right now. But we also have a significant, well, our son is significantly disabled and he lives with us. He's 24. And so that prevents me from having income outside of the home. Is she a full-time caregiver? Correct. That doesn't explain 180 grand of outside spending and debt. Yeah. Here's what you really need is for him to sit down with receipts and here's this is a hard conversation we're having and we're going through it real quick

george and i don't see very often that this much debt this fast is taking on things like you get what i'm saying like it's not usually a couple of vacations and a new car. Almost always there's something nefarious going on. That's where I'm struggling. Is there an addiction? My head goes right to addiction. My head goes right to there's somebody else. My head goes right to there's a big gambling issue. My head goes to there's something big going on.

Hey, look, if he sits down and says, no, no, hundred grand in college tuition here's these two vacations here's these two cars okay cool just show the receipts okay and that you you don't have that piece because the wool just got i mean the rug just got pulled out from under you it really yeah it really um it really did so i know he likes to gamble he likes it you know well you buried the lead there chris there it is yeah i want to see receipts you're telling me that someone who likes to gamble who spent and went 180 grand into debt spent none of it on gambling but what if it was over a period of about 10 years is that feasible anything? Anything's feasible. That's $20,000 a year. Of course that's feasible. But how am I going to know if it's a gambling debt?

Just show me the receipts. I have a hard time believing he's going to prove that there was $178,000 or whatever spent on well, I used that to pay down this debt and pay the tuition and cover this cost. He's not going to be able to come up with it.

He's going to get defensive, and he's going to get angry. How did you find out, Chris? Right, and we've already been there. Okay. We've already been there. How did you find out? But, yeah, he's defensive and angry, and then I finally pulled up the Wells Fargo app that shows credit reports and debt,

and I was astonished. Okay, I want you to pull all three credit reports. Okay? You can go to annualcreditreport.com and do this for free. Don't pay for it. They're all free. And I want you to compare and find out just how bad it is. I also want your kids to pull credit reports

and see if anything has been taken out in their name on their Social Security number. Again, all this is free. Annualcreditreport.com and i want you to hear the words that we this is what we call this in our house and here in this building we call this financial infidelity that that betrayal is that deep because now you got a special needs son that's 24 and you've already been thinking about life after you guys you're thinking about special needs trust and then you find out you're $200,000 in the hole.

Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And so we have to have a come-to-Jesus truth-telling. Everything's got to be on the table, and then we've got to figure out a plan working its way out. And part of that plan is we are freezing our credit, all of it, your credit, my credit.

No one is taking out a loan ever again for any reason. It might be telling your senior in college, you've got to pay for the last semester on your own. Sorry, we're broke. You've got to sell some cars. You've got to sell the house. I mean, there's going to be a reckoning to this. What does he make?

He makes, I just asked him, $162 a year. Okay. But he's in sales, so it's, you know, luxury. It's up and down. Yeah. Chris, I hope beyond everything that this is just the accumulation of a couple of grand a month

over the course of 10 years. I hope that's the case. It would be very rare if there's not something else going on. I love being wrong. I'm wrong often. My wife reminds me. I love being wrong. I hope I'm wrong here, but more so than I. I'm wrong often. My wife reminds me. I love being wrong. I hope I'm wrong here, but more so than I hope I'm wrong,

I hope you get some peace in your life. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University. This is 101. This is back to basics, and your husband's going to say, I don't need to watch that crap. He does. He does.

Because he's about to lose his wife over it, okay? Y'all watch these lessons together, and then I'm going to send you every dollar, the best budgeting app, and y'all are going to be able to keep track together on how these expenses are going to go. Full transparency. Yeah, that's it. You don't get to stay ignorant for another day, Chris. You're going to be very involved from here on out.

We'll be right back. Welcome back. This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel. We have this rad new thing called the Ramsey Network app. And it allows us to do things where we're not censored, where we don't get throttled, where we can control our own messaging and our own words, our own content.

So it's completely free and we have early releases in there. We have special interviews in there. We've got all kinds of cool stuff. It's the Ramsey Network app. You can get it anywhere, but also it provides you an opportunity to ask direct questions that we can respond to. People try to call and call and call and they don't always get through on the phone lines. But here's a place where you can leave questions. So here's a question from the Ramsey Network app. The question's from Thomas. This is going to be a fun answer because you and I probably handle this very, very differently.

Very. I thought this is the question for John. And I thought this is hilarious. I'd like to know George's answer to this. While in baby step two, how should people prioritize emergency preparedness, such as purchasing generators, food, water, and general supplies for when it all goes down? Actually, they didn't say that.

For an unknown future, I added that part for emphasis. Because George... I think that's the spirit behind it. It's all coming down. That's right. And actually, as I say that in jest, this because george i think that's the spirit behind it it's all coming down that's right and actually as i say that in jest um i have stored food i've got stored water i've got a generator um and there's a hurricane of the century heading towards florida so this is a legit question this

doesn't feel like a uh um and while we're at it you know the moon landing was fake and the the earth is yeah this isn't quite conspiracy. No, this is for real. I'm going to assume the best intent from Thomas here. That's right. This is a normal, level-headed person. Correct, correct. So baby step two means you have $1,000 and a starter emergency fund,

but all other money is going toward debt payoff. So he's saying, hey, how do I prioritize things like a generator, food, water, supplies? Well, I would say we've got to limit what we can do. We're not going to go build a bunker and spend a generator, food, water, supplies? Well, I would say we got to limit what we can do. We're not going to go build a bunker and spend 20 grand. But if you want to go to Costco and get a little emergency preparedness kit for 60 bucks, put it in the budget and go do it. So I would just say you got to limit how much we're spending on this preparedness idea. Is this a can of gas in the garage or is this a $5,000 generator? There's a big difference. And I think there's, I love that, George, there's some nuance here. So emergency preparedness

started a week ago for people in the path of Hurricane Milton that's headed right there, right? And so I would have considered that an emergency, pause everything, get water, get some food, or fill up your cars with gas and get some gas cans and go stay with some relatives or some friends in a safe location. So preparedness when it's acute, like man, you got to do what you got to do to survive and take care of your four walls. Preparedness as in maybe like me, you watch a lot of YouTube videos and got some good Instagram accounts on when it's all coming down, right? For me, the most pressing emergency in my household was how much money I owed people that would come knocking on my door or take my house

from me, take my cars from me, right? So that is a bigger emergency, number one. Number two, then you begin to say, okay, do we have, I live in the country. So if the power goes out, I don't have any water. I got to go get buckets of water to flush my toilets, right? That's different than living in the city. So ask yourself where you are. And that's a part of living out in the country. And then the other thing is over time, yeah, you don't owe anybody any money. You're working on baby steps four, five, and six.

As a family, save up and buy a generator. Are you going to have a portable generator or one you're going to have built into the ground that's going to automatically kick on? I haven't thought this through, John. Thanks for asking the hard questions. You're welcome. But again, here's what I want people to do. Make these purchases intentionally.

Don't make these purchases haphazardly from a state of panic. Remember, when your body goes to fight or flight, when you watch enough videos and your palms start sweating and your heart rate's racing, you're like, oh my God, it's all coming down. You're not going to make informed, rational decisions. And if you're still paying off your student loans,

you don't need to have five years of food. You need to pay off your student loans. Pay off your student loans. And again, all this is coming from a guy that's got a generator and food and water. You know what I mean? And I just know a guy. And you know a guy. You'll never find me, George a generator and food and water. You know what I mean? And I just know a guy. And you know a guy.

You'll never find me, George. You'll never make it. Here's what I know. Your Tesla will run out of charge again. Thank you. It wouldn't make it very far trying to evacuate anywhere, unfortunately. So there's that. That's a great video.

You just pile on the film. Let's go. Let's go. Pile it in and mix it into the block. Trust me. My wife was like, I was like, we got her a new to her car, and I was like, hey, you should get a Tesla. And she was like, we are not going to be in all, like, are you serious?

We're going to have a gas car in the family. That's a very anti-fragile wife. Good for her. All right, let's go out to Tampa, Florida and talk to Jared. Should have gone to Jared. We're going to Jared. What's up, Jared? Hey, how's it going?

What's up? Jared? Hey, how's it going? What's up? Just calling in. First, I want to say thank you guys. Working through your guys' steps and working with Jim Stovall is what allowed us to get out of debt and have an emergency fund to buy the plywood and board up our house and evacuate to Tennessee. Hope you guys are safe, man. Are you guys out? Yeah, we're in Tennessee right now. Oh, good. Good, good, good, good.

I still, I have family down there, but, you know, just praying for them. That's right. We all have those family members, Jared, that just decide, nope, we're going to stay. So yeah, we'll pray for them. We will pray for them, pray for them. How can I help you today, brother? Yeah, my question is just thinking about future family planning. My wife is here with me, and we don't have any kids yet, but I'm trying to figure out the health insurance thing. I've had people recommend high deductible plans with an HSA,

or there's standard plans where I'm on MediShare. And so what do you guys recommend as far as that goes? Well, there's two kind of buckets to put this in. If you and your family are relatively healthy, then the high deductible health plan makes a lot of sense. And you get the HSA, which is one of my favorite tools out there because it's triple tax advantage. So the money goes in tax free, it grows tax free, you can withdraw it tax free for medical expenses. So it's a really cool tool.

And then like a PPO plan might be better if you go to the doctor a lot, if there's kind of chronic health issues. And so there's kind of two buckets. If you go to, if you're like always going to the doctor, you might hit that out of pocket pretty fast and then it's covered. But if you never go to the doctor, that's also a bucket where the high deductible health plan wins. So it really depends on you and your family situation, your health. So what would you say is the status of your family and their health? Yeah, we're both really healthy. We like to do checkups, you know, once or twice a year. But just thinking in a couple of years, you know, we want to start

having kids and want to make sure that we've got help with that and coverage for that. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, the pros of like a PPO versus the high deductible health plan is there's a lower deductible and there's lower out-of-pocket max. The cons are there's higher premiums and there's a smaller provider network. So the high deductible health plan wins when you look at the premiums every month, but it does have a higher deductible. So if you guys can save up for that out-of-pocket max and be prepared for that higher deductible, then I think it's going to be a win in most cases. And it's what I personally have for my family through Ramsey is I do the high deductible health plan with an HSA.

I imagine John does the same. I don't know. That's what we do. And I'll tell you, Jared, if I was back, running it back again, having little babies, I'm too old for that now, but if I was having babies and I knew, like you, I'm going to plan for two years from now or three years from now, my intention would be to go into that three years

out and save up money and go to the hospital and say, what does the cash pay for baby? And they'll give you an all-inclusive cost. Now, if you have an emergency C-section, something like that, of course, it's going to be extra, but often they will, almost always, they'll give you a cash option to come and have a baby. And it's inclusive of the before and some of the limited aftercare. So I would have that conversation, but it might be as 5,000 bucks or 7,000 bucks. And it's like, all right, we've got three years to save up for that. Let's head on down that road. All right. And then the, as far as like the high deductible plan, um,

where the HSA goes, um, that high deductible, like we'd save up for that. And would that be part of the emergency fund or is that something to save up for separately or? I think it's fine to have in the emergency fund, the chances of like the HVAC went out, plus the deductible and all these things happening at once is very slim. But let's say the deductible is $7,000 for the family. I would make sure to have at least seven grand. And when you have your three to six months expenses saved up, that's likely going to be 15 or 20 grand. So you'll be plenty in the clear as far as that goes. Yeah. And George, and that's what we've always done,

is hold the deductible as a part of the emergency fund. It wasn't on top of the emergency fund. And plus you have the HSA to cover medical expenses as you begin contributing to that. Yeah. And so if you can, I say get lucky, if you can go a month, a year, and not have to touch that HSA, that becomes a really wonderful cushion. Beyond the floor, and then it becomes like a retirement account. That's pretty cool. Hey, that's it for this segment. We'll be back in just a few minutes right here on The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel, the handsomest face in radio. Wow. Let's go out to Minneapolis, Minnesota and talk to Laura. Hey, Laura, what's up?

Hi. What's going on? Well, first of all, I want to say thank you. Last year I worked through the Ramsey plan and paid off my student loans. Amazing. So I really appreciate all the work that you guys do. How much did you pay off? $47,000.

Wow. So do you not owe anybody anything anymore? Nothing. Nope. All right. Can we do an impromptu? You do a debt-free scream right here on the radio? Sure. Can you scream your head off? Are you in a place where you can scream real loud? Um, I'm in my work parking lot. Oh, that, yeah. I'll do it.

People already think you're crazy. It'd be great. It's true. All right, count it down. You paid off how much? What's the total? $47,000. $47,000.

All right, we got Laura from Minneapolis. Paid off $47,000 doing an impromptu kind of weird screaming in her parking lot. Debt-free scream. Let it rip. Do I count it down? Count it down. Three, two, one.

Three, two, one. I'm debt-free. See, look at Georgie was coming through. All right. The best is you're watching on YouTube. The team zoomed in on the debt-free stage with the graphic and animation. Well done. Only thing that's missing was you.

All right. So what's up, Laura? How can we help? Okay. So actually, well, speaking of being debt-free, so I found some land recently, and it's a really good deal, and I don't necessarily have the funds for it. So normally I wouldn't even consider... That makes it not a good deal.

I know, I know, but hear me out, hear me out. All right. So it's 20 acres for $29,000. Oh, that sounds so awesome. I know, that's what I'm saying. I might buy it. Is there bodies buried on it? Why is that cheap? It's so awesome. I know. That's what I'm saying. I might buy it. Is there bodies buried on it? Why is that cheap?

It's so cheap. Well, I can't give the specifics. I don't want anyone else to find it. Wow. Yeah, just tell me where the GPS coordinates are. So, it's like I've driven past this land a million times. I checked it out last night. I plan to check it out with the seller. I think the owner is just selling it directly. I'm planning to check it out tonight

with him. And it's just a wooded area, a little bit of it. I don't plan to like build a house on it or anything anytime soon. I would honestly like live on it in a tent or just save quite a bit before building or anything. Then why are you buying this? Camping is a lot cheaper if you don't need 20 acres. Well, eventually I would like to... Have you ever lived in the woods? I've camped plenty. Have you ever lived in the woods?

No, but I have considered it many times. I do. I do have a place where I rent. I do. And it's awesome. You live in the woods. But it is not what you think. It's a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I don't necessarily need to live there because I do rent for pretty cheap. So I could rent, you know, for a long time before building on there. But I guess the point of it was I don't plan to spend any more than the $29,000. I know, but you don't have $29,000. I don't have $29,000. You don't have $29,000.

Can I give you a great mama camel wisdom? I'm going to say it in Arabic. I'm going to butcher it. But it's, And that's what this literally translates to. The camel costs one penny, and I don't have one penny. Is that not the coolest mama camel wisdom right there? So here's what that means.

The thing that's the best deal that you can't afford is a bad deal. Right. So you're going to make payments on this thing that sits there that you don't even use, all for the pleasure of knowing that you could camp on it yes but i actually i can't take out a loan on it because i don't have you're correct yeah because no banks thinks this is a good investment and you know what the bank wants your business and when they're like yeah we can't take your business then that's called a gatekeeper they're trying to protect you from yourself.

So your only option would then be to do like an owner financing thing where they essentially loan you the money and you pay them back and you just create your own deal. Uh-huh. And I have a feeling you're actually going to try to do that when you go walk it. You probably are. So actually, I was wondering maybe if there was some kind of other option. Like have people convinced owners to wait six to eight months while someone gives up for it? Yes, they have.

They absolutely have. I mean, they've had this land forever. If you really convince them that Laura is amazing, this is who I want this land to go to, and then you work your tail off and go save up 29 grand, maybe they'll call it good and say, all right, we're willing to sit on this land for 12 months, but you're agreeing to buy this at this future date. And I'm making this up. Dave is a real estate guy, so I'm making this up.

But maybe there's a contingency contract that says, I intend to buy this in six months, and here's my plan. And even invoke the name Ramsey. I'm a Ramseyite. I don't have the cash. I'm saving up like mad. I just paid off all my student loans. I really want this.

Will you hold it for six months? And here's my plan for how I'm going to get twenty nine thousand dollars maybe maybe maybe so there's a small chance you're telling me there's a chance right lloyd christmas thought the same thing but can i tell you something um to give you some sort of optimism. Sure. I promise, I promise, I promise other land will pop up. Yeah. It just does. It does. It does.

I think so. I think this is a good deal. I don't usually find land that is cheap or I haven't. But also my friend just told me last night, she was like, do you need 20 acres or would you be fine with a lot less? I think I would be fine with a lot less. You would. You would. But here's what you have in your head you've worked really hard for the last few years and you're tired and you deserve this and it's kind of a carrot out there and it feels awesome

and i dude i totally get it i've got land for sale all around me and i can't afford it and it makes me b-a-n-a-n-a-s as the great gwen stefani once saying makes me crazy but i can't afford it and it makes me B-A-N-A-N-A-S as the great Gwen Stefani once sang. It makes me crazy. But I can't afford it. And so I can torture myself every day by being like, oh my gosh, if I could just I can't afford it so I can go play with my kids. It's a better use of my time to go run around with my dog. Right?

Yeah. Just don't make yourself bananas. You know what I mean? And what are you going to do with 20 acres for real? Like what are you going to do with 20 acres for real? Like, what are you going to do? Are you a hunter? Well, sometimes. Okay. My family hunts, so.

Yeah. But, I mean, that would be a lot more expensive than hunting on some free land. And what's the taxes on the 20 acres? I don't actually know. I'd have to ask the owner. That's a great question to ask. Yeah, what's the easements? What is the ongoing maintenance cost?

It's right on land. Or it's right on a road a great question. What's the easements? What is the ongoing maintenance cost? It's right on land. Or it's right on a road. Yeah. And what's the easement cost? And I don't even... You have to pay part of that. Yeah, it's just a lot. And I feel like I'm ruining your dream.

And you're actually one of the people I don't want to ruin your dream. I'm happy for you. I wish every American could own 20 acres. It's amazing. You just don't have $30,000. Yeah. But I could get there pretty soon i think okay come up with a compelling story get a guitar maybe sing it to the guy maybe he'll hear that or he may you may take him out and he just um he just gets really

mad that you wasted his time he's gonna look at you like you don't have any money and be like no but i really want it in eight months i really want like, you don't have any money? You'll be like, no, but I really want it. In eight months, I really want it. You don't have any money? Or it's a Christmas miracle and he gifts it to her at no charge. Christmas miracles. That's the George I know. I'd always ask, why are you getting rid of it?

It's a fair question to ask. Why are you getting rid of it so cheap? Where are the bodies buried? What's going on, Buster? Yeah, there's like some secret. It just feels awfully cheap. I know it's Minnesota, but... Plutonium under there.

Land ain't cheap these days, so like a grand an acre feels insane. I know, I kind of want to get it, even though I don't go to... You'll never find it. Hey, for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast, show's about to end.

I want you to head over to the Ramsey Network app, totally free to download. You can finish the show for a distraction-free experience. If you want to go further with Ramsey, we pick the calls for you, filter by topic, and you can get all your favorite Ramsey shows in place. That's important. So if you want to go back and run a call back, or if you want to be like, hey, I need a call about buying land without a credit score, it filters for you automatically. You can get all your answers right there. Don't miss what's coming up next,

and you can click the link in the show notes and go watch the rest of the show in the app for free. If you're listening on the radio, it's going to continue on like radio does. Sorry, John, I was distracted. I'm now on the Ramsey Network app. I'm watching you live. That's very meta.

It's pretty cool. I apologize. If you're wondering... I'm going to go now. Is it hard to work with Gen Z in the workplace? I'm not you live. That's very meta. It's pretty cool. I apologize. If you're wondering... I'm going to go now. Is it hard to work with Gen Z in the workplace? I'm not even Gen Z. I'm 35 years old, man. The answer is correct.

You're like four years older than me. Whatever. He's playing Fortnite underneath the table over here. These Gen Xers, they're all upset because they're the forgotten generation. Oh, we just don't want the world to fall apart. You guys are hell-bent on VR-ing the whole thing. This is a good reason to tune in to the next hour on the Ramsey Network. We'll see you soon right here on the Ramsey Show.

Good afternoon, good evening, good night. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel. We are live from Franklin, Tennessee, taking your calls on money, relationships, your emotional and mental health, your work, whatever you got going on in your life. 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Again, I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel. We're actually live on the radio, and we are in the Ramsey Network app. So meta. We're inside of it. It's like the Matrix. Okay. Continue on. Golly.

This is how he treats me, guys. Those are the things that come out of your mouth. Those are the things you say. Is that how you treat your wife? No, she says not dumb things. Dad explains it. I'll work on that. I don't even know what meta is. You should have a shirt that just says camel on it like Zuckerberg had the other day.

He had a shirt that said meta? I think it said like the Zuck or something or Zuckerberg. Oh, gosh. Speaking of, weren't you just wearing your own merch on your show? All right, let's go out to Houston, Texas and talk to Aaliyah. What's up, Aaliyah? How we doing? Hey, I'm doing well.

How are you guys? I'm good. Are we still sad about the strows i kind of am they didn't make it i'm not into sports so i can't even relate with you right now well you can be like george that's a win for america he doesn't even know who strows are all right so tell me what's going on that's sad i tell them that all the time i always tell them that all right so what you got going on okay so so I just want some steps to get out of debt, to have a few savings accounts, so like emergency personal savings accounts for the kids.

My husband and I, we want to purchase a home at least by 2030, and I want to try to gain some money to fund my um spa business i have an llc and i would also like to pay out of pocket for this tuition to get my massage therapy license a you're my hero and then we're going to the moon i know b you have so many things you want to just buy right so good so it feels like you're calling the show you're like all right i know y'all got a pot of money somewhere so here's what i want to buy um how much do you and your husband make combined okay so i was working i was making gross it was what 35 40 and the net amount was 26 97 but i just had a baby so i'm currently not working

congratulations my husband thank you my husband is working right now and he is making about 27 40 a week okay his first paycheck will be this friday because he kind of was unemployed for three months. How come he was unemployed for three months? Okay, so he moved from Louisiana to Texas so that we could be together. And when he came out here, it was very hard for him to find a job, and he really didn't know what he wanted to do in life. So his brother got him into the construction industry. The only thing was that the job was

in Arkansas okay so um he was in Arkansas working and they had to cut the team because the job was coming to a close so he was one of the ones who got cut and he recently just got the opportunity to go back so he left like a week or two ago So he's in Arkansas making about $10,000 or $11,000 a month? Yes. That's good money. How long is this job going to last? So right now, they said maybe February, March. Okay.

Since you don't have a job, can you go live there with him? He keeps asking, but the thing is we have an eight-year-old who's in school out here in texas um he's saying you know like they stay in hotels when they're out there he asked me thousands of times he's like you know do you want to just homeschool and just come out here and we can figure it out um i think i think that's worth exploring just for the sake of it this isn't why you're calling so we'll get to the money part of your stuff but that's really, that's lonely

yeah it's lonely and you don't have your ride or die with you and just being in a house with an 8 year old and a newborn that's tough, that's tough, tough, tough, right? Definitely. Yeah. So for whatever that's worth, man, I love your husband's spirit. Like, man,

we will figure it out, you and me versus the world. And I love that. And you got a place to stay for free. It might be a place to gather some money up while you're in the transition here. But that's not why you called. We called to, you want to buy a bunch of stuff man and set up your kids in a pretty fantastic way let's figure out how to get there what's your next financial goal okay so right now i decided to just go back to school so i'm taking some online classes trying to get at least an associate's in business management like why do you need that um because i wanted to get into project management you just told me you wanted to go into massage therapy i know but i just feel like and then

you got an llc what is the llc so my business is called nurture me's nature i have my esthetician license that's why i want to go back and get my massage therapy but i just feel like i have a lot of family in my ear saying like, you got to do something. You got to make some money. So I'm kind of just, they don't pay your bills. They don't get your bills.

You know what you have right now? I can't think of a better situation for somebody. Then I'm stuck at home with two kids when my husband's working at a state for six or seven or eight months, you can cut hair, you can do nails, you can do, um,

you can do what you're trained to do at your home. People can come to your house. Yeah. And you can do it on the side. And you can get paid. And you can make good money. But, man, get those knuckleheads out of your head, man. But what's the – do you guys have debt right now?

Yes. So I really have a majority of the debt. So I have an open credit card, $2 credit cards 2000 and a closed credit card this is from my college days I have 2300 and then I have student loan debt because I didn't go to school for three years um and that's about what's that 35k okay so that's everything right there what about your husband he has literally no debt I think he has like maybe a closed So that's everything right there. What about your husband? He has literally no debt. I think he has like maybe a closed account that's like $800. I think that's the most that he has.

Okay. Have you guys closed all these credit cards yet? What's stopping you? I'm just canceling all the cards and then we'll pay off the debt. Okay. So pay off the $2,000 and close them. Yeah. You can close them now and then you'll still owe the debt.

You pay that off. But I think right now it's just like an open risk here that we're going to go swipe for the next thing or swipe for the next thing. You guys are making $11,000 a month. Where is it going? Why isn't it going toward the debt? So he just started. Okay, so when he was working, I couldn't even tell you where that money went.

When he first started making that much money, I couldn't even tell you where it went. Because we try to sit back and see where it went. But here it is. Here it is. You make that much money, that first paycheck should wipe out all of your debt. Except for your student loans. You should be credit card free in the next 30 days. Do you guys have a shared bank account where this money goes to when he makes it?

No. He has his own personal account, but we do have one shared account that we have agreed to use. It has a saving and a check-in to use as our savings together. You guys got kids. We're not going to Venmo each other into a shared account like we're 12 years old.

We've got to combine our life. Let's live in the same town and make that thing work let's share money in the same town let's share dreams together my debt his debt it's y'all's debt it's y'all's money it's y'all's marriage joe's life you know what i'm saying you make too much to be this broke sitting around with debt you got dreams and i want to see you accomplish those dreams right now the priority is debt payoff a1 and that means getting on a budget, sharing an account, and I'm going to gift you a year of every dollar premium to help you with this process along with Financial Peace University. Both of you, watch the videos and then get on a phone call and FaceTime and talk about what you saw,

what you learned, and what you're going to do about it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We're taking your calls, 888-825-5225. We are... George, what you doing over there, bud? I'm stacking my papers. It's very messy.

But here's the thing, John. I've been getting a lot of questions today. I was live on... I did the weirdest thing. I went live on TikTok just to see who's out there. All right, I'm done with you. Very interesting crowd, but here's the deal. A lot of questions about how to manage my money. A lot of questions on the show today. How do I manage my money? There's not enough money at

the end of the month. One of my favorite things is showing people how to find margin they didn't know existed. And it's not always, well, you just got to stop eating out. There's a thousand ways to do it, but the key is you got to lay it all out in reality. And that's what our EveryDollar budgeting app does. So it's not about like, well, you got to be a nerd. You have to make a certain amount or you're going to be broke enough to budget. Budgets are for anyone who wants to be intentional with their money. And EveryDollar makes it easy to plan your spending, track your expenses and save for what matters most. So go check it out. Get started for free. Download Every every dollar in the App Store or Google Play, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Let's go out to Indianapolis, Indianapolis,

Indianapolis and talk to Phillip. Hey, Phillip, what's up? Hey, guys. So I have a question about whether I should replace my transmission or replace my car. I have a 2013 Acadia, and it's about 145,000 miles. Transmission needs replaced. They quoted me 9,000, and I was able to get it brought down by the warranty company to 5,000, I still owe 5,000 on the car as well at 145,000 miles. So I'm not sure if I should replace the car. I have to decide by tomorrow, or if I should just go ahead and get a brand new transmission or just write it out for option C. My wife has a similar vehicle that's 2015 that's got 150,000 miles on it we have 9,000 on hers it's worth 9,000 and then I'm 140,000 dollars in student loan debt and 15,000 dollars in consumer debt outside of

the cars and yeah I'm just trying to figure out what my next step is and our pets heads are falling off man you got a lot going on and I got got three kids. And three because why not? I paid child support for one of them too. You sound tired, man. I'm exhausted. I don't sleep. Yeah. What'd you say your car's worth

this 2013? My car on Kelly Blue Book, it's showing up at private sale at $6,000 trading at $3,500. So I would not put $9,000 into a car that's only worth $6,000. Okay. And that's the general rule here. If the repair costs are more than the value of the car, you're better off replacing it.

Now, it's not always the case, but I think in this case, I don't know that I'd sink that much more money into it. $9,000 will buy you a better car. The bigger question I have is, do you have $9,000? Well, I have $4,000 in savings, or $4,000 in, like, sinking fund in anticipation of a new car,

and I have $1,000 as my baby step number one. Yeah, I would take that $4,000 and that $3,500 trade in and go trade it in. Okay. All right. And you're still going to owe the 5K. Okay. So you're going to need to pay that loan off.

I screwed that up. I was wrong there. Yeah. I forgot you had $5,000 outstanding still in that car. Jeez Louise. That's the issue. Is there anything greater I could do with my wife's car too? I mean-

You said it's only worth nine and you000, and you owe $9,000. Yeah, it's worth $9,000. I pretty much owe $9,000. So you'd break even. You'd get rid of a payment, but then she still needs a car, right? Right. You can't go down to one car temporarily? No. She works 12 hours. We have a cart and three kids around, and it's getting hectic. Why do you feel backed into a corner? you have to make this decision in 24 hours? Well, they gave me 30 days from the warranting company

because I'm technically over the mileage where the extent of warranty expires. So they're giving me kind of a great year. What is this warranty covering? It would cover $5,000 of the transmission. It would also cost $9,000. I'm sorry, but it would pay $4,000 of the $9,000. Okay, so you would owe $5,000. I would owe $5,000, and then I'd still owe $5,000 on the payment.

I mean, you're between a rock and a hard place. If they're going to pay $4,000 and you got $4,000, you said? Yes. And they need to know tomorrow, when do you actually need to make this payment? How fast could you scrape together the other thousand? I mean, if I went hog wild, I could probably get it in a couple weeks, honestly. I'm a pharmacist, but all my money goes to loans. And my wife's a nurse.

She just became a nurse recently, so she's making a reasonable amount. Together we take home about $10,000, but so much goes to credit card debt. I'm paying probably $4,000 to $5,000 in credit card bills each month. I brought it down to $15,000. So what's the total minimums on all of your debt? I would say about $6,000. Man.

Are you guys renting right now? We're renting on the north side of the city, and we pay $1,500 for a three-bedroom for us and the three kids. Okay. What do you make as a pharmacist? My take-home is $6,000. Are you guys doing any investing right now at all? I do get a 10% match on my retirement, and I probably need to pause that.

So I put almost $500 in. Philip, it's not probably. You need to pause it like a year ago. You need to pause it today. You understand that's going to give you hundreds and hundreds of dollars back in your paycheck? Yeah, $6,000 a year is what I counted. That's a lot of money. It's $500 a month.

That's the difference of you having a car to get to work or not. You're right. And so I'm pausing it today, doing everything we can. We're going to scrape the couch cushions. We're selling everything on Facebook Marketplace, and we're going to come together with that $1,000 to make that bill happen because right now you don't have the option of going out and buying another car. Yeah, the car does drive okay.

It's just they're saying this is just going to get worse and worse. Have you gotten a bid from other mechanics? I did take it to two separate locations yeah a dealer and a private and they both set in each place and it's nine grand no matter what yes yes even with a used one that's warranty for an extra thousand or an extra uh year at 12 000 miles it still costs uh only five hundred dollars or less than the nine thousand they're quoting me so they said they would recommend just getting a brand new transmission or get rid of the car.

Have you and your wife sat down and said, okay, here's our new life. She just graduated. Here's how much we own. Here's how much money we make. Just last month, she finally agreed to do every dollar with me. I've been doing it, but by myself, and I've begged her for a while to sit down with me. I've been doing it, but by myself and I've begged her for a while to sit down with me, but she's been in denial and really craves, uh, going on that next trip. And so I said, we can't do that. Um, but it's really hard because she's said she's worked so hard in her nursing career with a new baby. We have a one-year-old and a six-year-old and a nine-year-old.

So she's, she's she feels uh justified in that i know it's hard and i try to give her these wins but i mean y'all are broke man yeah you're like a in an emergent class of americans who are what i call rich broke y'all make so much money like y'all won right and y'all are broke man it breaks my heart for you and it especially breaks my heart george and i can tell you i mean you're like 20 not maybe 30 months of 35 you know i'm saying like you're about 30 months of super annoying living from being completely free and you don't like rolling up to the pharmacy driving a used acadia that you're waiting to die on any moment she didn't like rolling up to the hospital and

in a used arcade you know what i mean it's just as weird it's just i hate it for you man what's your total debt load um i would say with the cars consumer debt a a stupid 401k loan that has $5,000 on it, and some medical debt worth probably $8,000. I think we're probably close to $190. And what does she make take home? She takes home about $2,000 every two weeks. $2,000 every two weeks and two thousand every two weeks so we're talking you said 10 grand total take home correct i think you both need to pause investing and we need to get on that rice and beans budget old school and i know she feels like she deserves it because she's worked hard i think she works too hard to live like this any longer yeah and dude she's gotta y'all gotta take extra shifts extra shifts and you're seven days a week man for the next two and a half years

and she's six days a week i know y'all got a one-year-old man but y'all got to take extra shifts, extra shifts, and you're seven days a week, man, for the next two and a half years, and she's six days a week. I know y'all got a one-year-old man, but y'all created a bed that your whole family can't sleep in. Dude. God, I'm heartbroken for y'all. It's going to take a lot of hard work, hard, hard work. Hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with every dollar for a year.

We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go back out to Minneapolis, Minnesota, and talk to Annie. Hey, Annie, what's up? Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. Of course. What's going on? So I'm trying to figure out how to set myself up for financial success, and I'm kind of late to the game. So I'm 30 years old. Oh, my goodness. A lot of my... That's so late.

Yes, it's too late, Annie. We're kidding. Just in case you can't hear sarcasm. I thought you were going to be like, I'm 78 years old. No, I just sound like it because I'm a little sick right now. No, Annie, you're good. Who told you you were too late, that you're so far behind? It's more so just me being hard on myself.

Okay. Well, be nice to my new friend, Annie. She sounds rad. Okay. She's from Minneapolis. Everybody I've ever met from Minneapolis is nice. That is true. Minnesota nice is definitely a thing.

It's real. I wish everyone in the world was like Minneapolis. You eat that much hot dish. You're just a nice person. Just a nice person. Be nice to Annie. You're 30 years old. You're just now starting.

So give us your financial picture. Yeah. So basically what I would really love to do is try to, you know, I got a new job and I increased my income quite a bit. It was quite a substantial increase. And so I want to take all the extra money that I'm making and invest it to grow my wealth. Cause I know that's ultimately what you should do. And, you know, I am so new to the investing game and I'm still trying to learn it all. And I'm super close to paying off all my debt too. So I'm just trying to see how can I set up myself for, you know, success and being able to retire early and not, you know,

work until I die type of situation. Exit the rat race. I like where your head's at. How much debt do you have left? Only about thank you. Only about $4,500. I actually just made like a $2,000 student loan payment and paid off one of my loans. Yeah, dude. So are we talking like next month this is paid off? What's your income? So I make a salary about $78,000 a year. And then with my bonus, probably closer to like $84,000, $85,000.

Awesome. There you go annie yeah and then um i pay off my car too so yeah the only debt i have is just the 4500 and it's just like two student loans that's it dude so based on your math are you done with this two months from now um actually i could pay it off any day now because i do have a chunk of change set aside you have it in savings angela from minne could pay it off any day now because I do have a chunk of change set aside. What, you have it in savings? Angela from Minneapolis, pay it off. Yes. No, that is the plan.

I do plan on paying off my student loans here in the next few weeks. No, today. We do it today. Yeah, today. Seriously. I can do it today. We do it today. You promise?

In front of all of America? Minnesotans can't lie. It's like in their charter. Okay. minnesotans can't lie it's like in their charter okay so you're debt free today and your next step is baby step three which is to save up three to six months of expenses so what does one month of expenses look like um i if i had to think about it's probably this would include a student loan payment like per month because i do automatic payments but you're going to be done with the student loan payment. Right. So then if you take that out of the equation, it'd probably be closer to $1,500 a month.

That's it? Yeah, for all my expenses. What? Where do you live? I have always tried to live below my means. Are you a time traveler from the 1950s? How are you living? Like your rent, your utilities, your insurance, food, everything is $1,500? Yeah. Also, my income, my take-home pay after taxes, like right now, it's about, well, I did start investing into a 401k.

So now after taking that out, after taxes, I probably have about $4,000 I come home with after taxes. But Annie, do you live on the back of a horse? Where do you live? No. I live with people. We share expenses. And then, like I said, I just try to keep all of my expenses as low as possible. Is this a sustainable place to live?

Like if you look up at 35, does 35 year old Annie want to be living where you live right now? Yes, it is. But I know my living situation will probably change in the next year because I am in a relationship with someone now and we're going to be moving in together eventually. Oh, gross. Do you like him? Do you like him? Oh, I love him. He's absolutely the best. I'm a very, very lucky girl. He's a lucky guy. Okay, Annie, here's your game plan. Thank you. So number one, you need to do these steps with focus, intensity,

and that means pausing investing for just a second because you're going to be there so fast getting this fully funded emergency fund. We're talking, let's call it $15,000, all right, is what you're looking at. Well, so I do have something to make note of um because i actually do have enough for emergency fund um i didn't know what to do with you know um i'm trying to think how i want to say this so i've always kept my expenses pretty low right and i've always done really well with my money and because of, I've actually got saved up like over 70,000 to my name. Well, way to bury the lead, Annie.

Why have you hung on to this debt for so long? If you had the money to pay it off? I love it, George. I love it. So to be honest, a lot of it has to do with my upbringing because for a long time, I was really scared of spending money because I've seen a lot of people around me make really foolish money habits. And that's why I was so terrified of doing anything with it, even in course of investing, because I always had the mindset of like scarcity. Okay. Well, let's call this your emergency fund plus future down payment money. How's that? Yeah.

How much do you have in retirement right now? If I had to guess, in 401k specifically, probably about 20k, maybe 25k. Okay. Let me just do some math to give you some peace. All right. At 85,000, you're going to be investing 15% of your income. All right. So that's about over a thousand bucks000 a month. About $1,060 to be exact. You are 30 years old, you said? Yes. You got $25,000 in there.

You're going to put $1,060 a month. This is if you never get a raise and you never invest anymore. With a 10% return, you would have $2.9 million at 60 years old.

Okay. Does that give you any peace? And that's if it's the only thing you do. Because by the way, you're going to get a house paid off. You're going to make more money. You're going to invest even more in the long run. But that's a worst-case scenario.

You never get a raise, and you stay where you're at. You're going to have almost $3 million. Right. So I think we also need to go, Annie's okay. She's not behind her peers. She's not behind anyone. She's doing her own thing, and she's doing great, by the way. Do you know how few 30-year-olds have $70,000 in the bank, and they're debt-free?

With $25K and a 401K? Yeah. So I think we also need to stop being so hard on Annie and go, she's doing great. Do you believe us? No, I definitely do, and that's why I wanted to call today because I finally worked through a lot of that fear that I had with money, and now I'm actually more happy. I'm taking chances out there. I'm trying to do whatever I can to grow a life for myself

and make my wealth grow for me. You know what I mean? Hey, hold on, hold on. How do I invest my money? Yeah, but you're still talking in scarcity language. What makes you laugh? Sounds like I'm scarcity still. What makes you laugh?

Sorry, I'm sorry. What made me laugh? No, what's the thing that makes you laugh? What brings you joy? What do you love doing? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't hear what you said. What makes me happy, what brings me joy?

The people in my life and experiencing life, living life. I love to travel and I love to spend time with my friends and family. And I just, like I said, I just am trying to do whatever I can to set myself up and not be part of the rat race because I don't want to see my life 30 years from now still having to work and struggle. If you just stay out of debt and keep investing the way you're investing, you're going to be just fine. A multimillionaire. What's the thing that you want to spend money on,

but your brain and body are like, no, you shouldn't. You don't deserve it. Like, no, we shouldn't do that right now. Is there a thing, an item, an experience? Right now, honestly, no. I actually am in the middle of planning some trips, and I'm getting to travel more now, and that's something I always wanted to do. So there's nothing necessarily holding me back. Well, here's your mission. You need to have a full life and that means. You're great at that. And we need to spend. And if you do all three things while investing 15%

and living your life, you're going to have a very great full life. And every time you start to get anxious about what you're spending or those old demons come back and call you bad or tell you, it's all going to go away. I want you to put your fist in your chest. I want you to look yourself in the mirror and exhale and say, Andy's going to go have a good time. You've worked really hard. You're in an amazing position, and it's just green grass from here on out. Congratulations, Annie. We're proud of you. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day is Romans 8, 28. We know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.

J.K. Rowling says, It is impossible to live without failing at something unless you live so cautiously that you might as well not have lived at all, in which case you fail by default. Who is J.K. Rowling, George? The author of the Harry Potter series. Good job. Look at you.

It felt weird having that, you know, followed Bible quote. Yeah, I could see that. A little scripture to J.K. I was surprised about that old technology, those things our grandparents called books. Well, I read the first Harry Potter book, and then my mom, she was spooked by the witchcraftery, so we put those down. You've our grandparents called books. Well, I read the first Harry Potter book and then my mom was spooked by the witchcraftery.

So we put those down. I was like seven when they came out. You chat GPT'd the synopsis and had it TikTok'd to you. There's no synopsis. Alright, let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Caitlin. What up, Caitlin? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

Of course. What's going on? My husband and I right now, we are drowning in debt. We're on time for all of our payments, but we need to make a huge lifestyle change at this point. We're both in agreement on that, and we really want to start the Dave Ramsey plan. But how do we explain this lifestyle change to our teenage sons without scaring them about our financial future.

Oh, I think this is an amazing opportunity to transform your kid's life. Can I, I want you to repeat after me. If every parent would learn the sentence I'm about to tell you, I think so much of our country would be healed overnight. You ready? Yes. What's your son's name? Make up a name. John and James. All right, John and James, everybody sit down.

Me and your dad, we were wrong. That's it. Ta-da. We were wrong. And then you can go on to explain, we thought that life was about shiny things and we've set a not good example for you. And we owe it to you as your mom and dad to A, set y'all up for success

and B, be very honest with you. We're not broke. We're not, I mean, we have money. We have good jobs. But we have put our family in a scary position. So we're going to make some radical changes and we are going to lead by example and it's gonna suck because y'all are used to this and this and this and it's gonna be different and then how old are your kids they're 11 and 13 yeah you know what they're gonna do be 11 and 13 year olds are you serious for real oh my why can't we and then they're going to do? Be 11 and 13 year olds. Are you serious? For real?

Oh my, why can't we? And then they're going to move on with their life. This will be the greatest gift you ever gave them to say, hey, what we were doing, what we modeled for you was wrong. We got new information and we're about to make a radical shift. And then y'all go forward. Can I give you an example? My mom was not allowed to go to college growing up,

and she went to her first community college class at the age of 42. I remember she walked in with the big jug of detergent, washing detergent, and she dropped it on the washer when I was in my middle school sports, and I smelled like somebody died like four weeks ago, and they just couldn't find the body. It was awful. And she walked in. She said, this is how the washing machine works and the dryer works.

You and your disgusting, sweaty football clothes are on your own. I'm going to school. And as a 12, 13, 14, 15 year old, oh my goodness, so ridiculous. At my age of 40 40 when I ran into this guy named Dave Ramsey and we sat down he said hey I want you to consider leaving everything you've worked for for the last 20 years to come work with me I had a roadmap for doing the next scary thing because I watched my 42-year-old mom study, go to school, adjunct, and then at age 57 graduate with a PhD. That's you guys. In a few years, you're going to be debt-free and your kids are going to watch it.

And then when hard things happen to them in their life, which they will, they will have a real-time picture of mom and dad changing directions, saying we were wrong, making lifestyle changes, and then going and achieving something amazing. I would tell you that beyond getting out of debt, you have an opportunity to transform your kids' lives. I hope so.

That's what I'm afraid of, that my husband and I have modeled what was taught to us growing up and just not having this concrete knowledge of money doesn't grow on trees. You know what I mean? Like just spending it as it comes in. And that's just put us back where we want to be. That's exactly what you want. They get to learn about lifestyle creep.

And you go, listen, we were making great money. And the more we made, the more we spent. And we didn't live on less than we made. And that means we had to go into debt. And we're ready to make a change because it's not sustainable. And you guys deserve a better future than to see mom and dad stressed out about money. And one cool thing with kids is invite them into this. Kids can get real anxious and get real low when they feel powerless.

And if you bring them along, how much money do y'all owe? What's the total debt? Total debt is $170,000 minus the mortgage. Okay. What's the debt? It's a lot. The debt is credit cards, a HELOC, and the kids' braces. Okay. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to make 170 construction paper chains and you're going to staple them together. And your husband's going to participate. All four of you are. And you're going to staple them together and your husband's going to participate all four of you are and you're going to hang it somewhere like in the living room where everybody can see it and every month when you all make a payment on a debt they're going to get to tear the chain they're going to be a part of this thing okay and then instead of eating out we're going to

have a taco competition and see which kid makes the best taco and you guys are going to be the judges and dad is going to intentionally dad is going to make a bad taco so everyone can go and then you're going to have on friday nights y'all are going to have dance off because y'all don't have any money right and can i tell you something wild you're a 13 year old you're 11 year old you know what they're going to remember? The time mom and dad and y'all in the middle for Christmas, y'all sprayed each other down with a hose out in the backyard because that's what y'all had.

They will tell that story at your funeral. They will not tell the story at your funeral about some digital device that cost a thousand bucks that's already long past. Or how they didn't get to go to In-N-Out for three weeks. So I think it's not going to be as rough as you think. The initial reaction might be, but I think beyond that, you're going to go, all right, our life is still great. Like we thought it was going to be pain and suffering, but really it's just getting creative and not spending money.

They don't have any concept of money yet. So they don't really fully know how this is going to affect them other than the things and activities and items they like. And take them shopping with you. Give them a calculator. Tell them to add it up as they go. Oh, that's fun. And guess. They have to guess how much it's going to be.

Or here's the budget. You guys have to keep it under budget. Yeah, you all keep it under budget. And you can say, I really want two ice creams. And they'll be like, no, you only have one. And then they're owning part of this. But let me tell you this, kids absorb the tension in the home. You can come up with a bunch of cool strategies and stuff for your kids. And that's going to be easy. The two people I'm most worried about are you and your husband.

Yeah, it's been a very stressful, I want to say decade that we've just been falling deeper and deeper and at the same time making more and more money. That's right. How much do you guys make? We make about $250 a year on the lower end. Is it crazy saying that out loud? Make a quarter million dollars in your broke? Like as a kid, if you were like, we're going to make a quarter

million dollars. That's why we called in. We've looked at all of the options. We talked to bankruptcy lawyers. We talked to... No, no, no, don't do't do that, don't do that, don't do that. None of that made sense. No, no, no, we already decided that doesn't make sense for us. We're going to just hit it head on. So you said it doesn't include the mortgage.

It's $170,000 and that's not the mortgage. Correct. How much is the mortgage? The mortgage, we still owe about $475,000 and our home is worth about $900,000. Okay. But let's say you had a goal to do this in two years our home's worth about $900,000. Okay. But let's say you had a goal to do this in two years, right? That's $85,000 a year that you'd have to throw toward the debt out of your $250,000. Mm-hmm.

Now there's taxes, there's all kinds of expenses, there's the minimum debt payments, there's life. But do you think you could do that? I think maybe three years. I don't know that we could after taxes in two, but we could definitely try for three. I think we set a goal that scares you a little bit, where it feels a little bit unachievable.

Not crazy, but instead of three, if you made it two and you said, all right, that's $7,000, come hell or high water, we have to find $7,000 in this budget to throw at the debt. And you're going to free up payments along the way, so it's going to speed up. You're going to make more over the next two years. And I'd be shocked if you didn't call back when the debt-free screamer came to visit us.

And here's the thing. George and I hear these stories all the time. And we believe in you, and we know you can do it. But I want you and your husband to be highly intentional about keeping your marriage together and united through the next 24 or 36 months. It's going to be an adventure. Y'all can do it.

That's it for The Ramsey Show. We will see you soon. Don't forget, Ramsey app. Download the Ramsey Network app today. We love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. We'll talk to you soon.

Bye. Thank you.