The Ramsey Show - App - Why You Need To Vote in Every Presidential Election

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Number one best-selling author, host of The Rachel Cruze Show, co-host of The Smart Money Happy Hour, Ramsey Personality, my daughter is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. So Rachel, I'm going to do something that we don't do 99% of the time on this show. This show is about our callers and their opportunities, their problems, the things that we can help them with in general. We are neck deep in the middle of an election season, and I'll be early voting this week,

and then I'm going to be away from the microphone a little while. So I'm going to take a minute here and walk you guys through something, and just stay with me a minute, okay? So here's the thing. Most people in America have already decided who they're going to vote for. You agree with that? Yes. The idea that there's a big block of undecided people out there wandering around is kind of absurd, really. There's really not a bunch of people walking around with their head in the fog and go, oh, I think all of a sudden I need to learn about this. It's like, no, you know about it. Everybody's talking about it. It's like, no, you know about it.

Everybody's talking about it. It's everywhere. You can't get away from it. We're sick of it. We're tired of all these people. We're sick of the whole freaking thing, most of us anyway. I mean, some of you are really into it. You're not sick of it.

You just love every moment of it, and you're going to desperately have a political hangover in the middle of November. But anyway, the rest of us are like, yeah, okay, we got it. We know what we're going to do. And there's not a big block of undecideds that are going to swing this election. I'll tell you who I do want to address, though. There is a large block of people that are not planning to vote at all. And I'm going to be straight with you. I think that's a mistake, okay? And I want to walk through with you just a basic decision-making paradigm on that idea. So my friend Simon Sinek, who wrote the book Start With Why, Infinite Game, many others,

we've spoken on stages together. We've been in think tanks together. We've been friends for years. I follow him on Instagram. It popped up on his instagram rachel uh yesterday or day before yesterday that he had interviewed uh president joe biden and um the interview on his podcast by the way folks landed uh last night and i was able to listen to it this morning it is really good it's really good i did a really good interview

with donald trump and if you haven't seen that you ought to watch it. But this is better. It's better. Simon did a better job than I did. And to the point that I saw things in Joe Biden that I've never seen before. And so I enjoy getting information and perspective on things that I didn't have. I'm not challenged by my belief system isn't challenged because I learned something about someone I disagree with that I actually like. Yeah. You know, that doesn't bother me. I'm it's not it doesn't cause me to melt down. So anyway, I'm going to recommend highly that you go to Simon Sinek's podcast and listen to this interview. It's really good. Obviously, President Joe Biden is not in the thing. Oh, by the way, side note, some of you

that were griping about me interviewing President Trump kept telling me it's former President Trump, it's former President Trump. No, that's not correct protocol. I have a friend that passed away a few years ago that was the ambassador to France. It was Ambassador Joe Rogers. He was a Tennessean. He lived here in Nashville. I knew him in the real

state business and from the time he was an ambassador in france the rest of his life he was known as ambassador rogers everywhere i went that he was introduced he was introduced as about ambassador rogers if you introduce bill clinton you introduce him as president clinton president bill clinton not former president clinton and someone who served as a senator for the rest of their lives, they're called a senator. That is normal protocol. So some of you that are mouthing off about that, you're just wrong. You don't know what the flip you're talking about, as usual,

when you're running your dadgum mouth on stuff like that. Okay, so anyway. That was a sidebar. By the way, I'll tell you another one. I'll tell you another one. No, no, stick with your points. You know things down. You never do this.

You never do this. You need to go watch Brett Baier tonight. Brett, one of the more level-headed people on Fox, has gotten an interview with Vice President Harris. Oh, great. The one I wished I had gotten. Yes, yeah. And you need to go watch that.

I'm going to be watching it. I'll recommend that one as well. Because Brett's pretty... I like all, yeah. He's pretty straight. He's not going crazy, yeah. So, here's the thing. 49% of evangelical Christians surveyed right now say they're not going to vote.

Wait, how many? 49%. Dang. That's my brothers and sisters in Christ because they're disgusted with the quality of the character of both candidates in their minds. That's what the thing comes out. And that's understandable. 16% of gun owners say they're not going

to vote and that's just because they don't want to get on the grid they don't want anybody know where they are because some of you are just weirdos okay and you don't have to be a weird you don't have to be a weirdo to have a gun i've got guns no no i will vote but i do think they know a lot about us i know a lot about i don't think i don't think voting is going to cause them to know more or less i know okay keep I know. Okay, keep going. So here's the thing. You're not voting for a savior. If so, neither one of these would be qualified. You're not even voting for a pastor. If so, neither one of these would be qualified.

What happens in your house is more important to your success than what happens in the white house but what happens in the white house does affect your life and to not vote at all out of disgust is bad decision making paradigm you should make a list of the eight or ten issues that are out there and which side each candidate falls on. And regardless of the candidate themselves, I don't believe in voting on a single issue. If you want to vote single issue voter, you can, but I don't vote on a single issue. There's not a single issue that I will vote on above everything else.

I mean, there's things that are more important, less important, but like, you know, there are people that say, okay, pro-choice or pro-life. I will not vote anything except that on any other issue. I could disagree with them on everything, and I'm going to still get my vote because of that. I don't believe in that. I believe in looking at the whole thing and saying, okay, there's the economy, there's inflation, there's interest rates, there's taxes. Which candidate falls on the side of those things that you believe you can fix or that they're going to impact.

There's the border, the immigration issue that is real. Which candidate falls on that? Check the box, right? Check the box. Pro-life, pro-abortion. Okay? Well, it's Democrat and Republican very clearly on that. Okay?

Although Trump is not going to do anything on a federal level for pro-life. He's just going to let the overturn of Roe v. Wade run its course, and the states decide. Kamala's going to be pro-abortion, period. And they've said this very clearly. I mean, it's a standard plank in their party, okay? Pro-Second Amendment. No question which one you're going to check there on which if you're pro gun or, or you're anti gun. Okay. If you're anti gun, you need to vote for vice president

Harris. Even though she has one, if you're pro gun rights, just cause you got one doesn't matter. If you're pro gun rights, you cannot place, you cannot put a check over there. And I'm again, I'm not going to vote on a single issue. If you're really concerned about the social issues around woke. Can I jump in? What about writing in a name? Does that count? You can, but I think

one of these two is going to be president and you should participate. Yes, but if I have a conviction as an American to actively vote, because I do believe in that. If someone out there just to even practice that action, write someone in. Yep. So I'm going to tell you, I'm voting for Donald Trump, not because I'm voting for Donald Trump. Oh my gosh, are we going here?

That's okay. But because I checked those boxes, and more of those are on that side than on the other side, I'm going to hold my nose and i'm going to vote i might vote for king coleman that's who i might write in coleman we could vote for ken coleman but i'm not definitely not this is the ramsey show what does the future hold for business ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle,

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spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. All right, I want to wrap up that thought, and then we'll move on with the callers, okay? Here's the thing. I have voted in every single election since I turned 18 years old, presidential election or otherwise.

I've not missed a single time to cast my vote as an American. I believe it's a patriotic duty. I believe it is a right. And I got to tell you, I think every single vote I've ever cast, I disagreed with the person I voted for on at least something, or I wished something was different about them. And so as my friend Steven Mansfield so eloquently put a while back, he said, all of us, if we're honest and have good decision-making skills and independent thought, all of us are not worshipers of candidates. Now, there are some of you that are worshipers of candidates, and you lose your freaking minds on this stuff. But I'm not one of them, okay? I'm looking at ideas and which ideas land on which

side of the aisle. Where am I most likely going to get a tax policy I like, an immigration policy I like, a foreign policy I like? Where am I most likely to get a gun policy I like, a climate change policy I like, a woke policy I like, that I agree with. Where am I most likely to get that? And I can check those boxes very clearly, very quickly on these two candidates. And then based on that, none of them are going to be 100% on what I want them to be in personal character, in personality style, in history, in even where they stand on the issues. None of them are 100% exactly who I want them to be. So that means 100% of the votes I have cast and I voted in every election, I've held my nose and voted anyway.

There's something I didn't like, but I voted anyway for the one that most aligned with all the different issues, plus or minus, right? And again, I've never thought I was voting for a savior, and I never thought I was voting for a pastor. Some of you think you are, and that has you all disillusioned. But I don't think you could find a president that you go back and go, well, this was a holy man. This was Billy Graham. There's no Billy Graham ever been in the White House, okay? It just hasn't. It's not, this doesn't happen. There's some that were better than others, some that were more slimy than others, for sure. But it's just not, it's not like their job. Billy Graham, that was his job. And so it's a different thing. So I suggest you hold your nose and you vote.

And that's what I don't mean. I think they stink. And I'm saying there's something I disagree with, and I'm going to vote anyway. And that's how I made the decision to vote for Trump was the boxes that were checked. And if you want to vote the other way, as long as you're being thoughtful about it and you're being a nice person, we're still friends. I'm OK with you. I'm not mad at you. Some of you are never going to listen to me again after this. That's OK. I can deal with that. That's that's happened to me for 30 years. People have threatened

me. I'm going to cancel you. That's a hard to do. I own the show. And so you're not going to get to cancel me so you can leave. But you can't cancel me that that's that that's what i want to talk about and then the other thing i want to tell you guys speaking of interviews once you pick up simon's interview simon cynic pick up brett bear's interview on the politics non-politics 98 non we actually got to sit down long form and hang out with ben shapiro last week and that landed today on the ramsey network app and tomorrow it'll be on our podcast and on our youtube and so don't miss ben shapiro very brilliant guy uh long form interview we got to talk about judaism he's an orthodox jew i'm a christian and so and we've got a lot of friends in both camps that and we got had a great discussion

on some of that stuff marriage Marriage issues, Ben on marriage. That's something very different. Yeah, interesting. Because his mind's like a freaking steel trap. He's, yeah, very interesting. So very cool. Talks about life. Yeah, we did.

And so be sure and tune in for all that. So what do you want to add to that? Anything you just wish I hadn't gone there or what? No, it's not that I wish you hadn't gone there. I'm shocked you did to a degree. I was like, oh my gosh, are we saying who we're voting for right now uh no i i think you know last time we were in epcot with our kids we i made my girls go to the uh american adventure it's a it's a show in the america part of epcot and it's about it's

about american history it's 30 minutes long and they have roosevelt they have all these presidents that come and tell the history of america and you leave that and you just think I am proud I am proud to be an American even though you know there were elements of of our history that we're not proud of but who we are as this country so I think the the rights and the responsibility to vote is huge and I think that's an older generational thing so I kind of see you as Papa Dave a little bit in that segment of like hey especially to the younger generation I think it's more of the younger ones uh that don't feel the seriousness of voting so I love the message of go vote your vote does count yes go vote because I think that that is uh and I'm a part of America that's

beautiful and so do it and by not voting you can swing an election yes for sure for sure yeah and that that that's wrong yeah so vote for who you yep vote for who you agree with i agree i mean if kamala because of this speech is a landslide and you guys all exercise your vote i'll take that yes i'm fine yes i'm fine that's okay yes because i want you to get up off your butts i want you to think clearly for yourself don't stick your head so far up your party that you can't think. And some people do. They can't. Everything that's on that side is right.

No, it's not. No, it's not. And all the people that are on that side are right. No, I have met kookazoids on both sides. I mean, complete crazy people that should be in a padded cell it don't tell me everybody that falls on one side of the others right they're not they're just not they're just some of them are you're not voting for a savior folks anyway all right last thing you're gonna hear on politics and ramsey for a long long time i hope and uh because i really don't want to become

those i don't want to do a political show it's's not what I want to do. I don't even enjoy it. Rachel actually enjoys it somewhat. We have some great. She has. We have some great Rachel one sided family discussions at dinner about all this stuff. But I did just me a monologue. Yeah. Monologuing.

We definitely have you stirred up for sure. And you can go there. And but they're a lot of fun. It's always entertaining. But it's not what we do on the radio. We're here to help Morgan in Pensacola. Hi, Morgan. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. What's up? Hey, just letting you know, I will be most definitely voting, and me and Rachel have that in common.

I love talking about politics, and I love politics. So good, Morgan. Well, good. That's why you didn't hang up while I was doing all that. You're on hold, right? Oh, no, I thoroughly enjoyed that. Anyway, so just short and sweet. Last year, my parents needed a place to go. And it was a consensus that they move here on the property. And they said, hey, or my dad said, hey, we will give you a certain amount of money per month. It'll help you guys out, help us out. We said, sure, that sounds great. And then that happened for like maybe a month or two,

and then it kind of has been very sporadic since, like maybe $100 a year and $100 there. How much is he supposed to be paying you? About $850. Okay, and that's what he promised. He brought it up. You didn't even bring it up. Yeah, he threw out that number. Okay, the first time he missed why did you not

say something i just had i hello did you do we lose you morgan now she hung up darn oh well we'll see if we can get her back for another segment then oh man shoot morgan sorry yeah sorry about that here's the thing um if you don't bring something up that's obvious people think it's okay like when he didn't pay and she didn't say anything he starts to think it's okay because she probably felt bad of like oh well i'm sure it's yeah that like because the consensus was apparently with their brothers and sisters i don't know that they're going to help mom and dad out so uh i think what you need to establish is does it matter if you're going to let them live there free

then just whether he pays or not doesn't matter just forget it whenever he sends a check that's fine don't worry about it. If there's something else going on that they're wasting money or something, you need to help them with that and coach them. That's fine. If you really want to hold their feet to the fire on accountability, start having discussions about this early and often. But where you made the mistake was not early.

So that's going to be the answer to your question, I think. But if we can get you back, we'll hear the rest of the story. And that's how we do it here. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Jeffrey and Julianne are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hi. Hi there. Where do you guys live? We are from Ontario, Canada. Oh, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off uh so uh 110 in consumer debt and 345 total so 235 was our mortgage and 110 was consumer debt you paid off your house so great looking at weird people okay so the total the total was what what did you say the total 345 345 okay 235 house 110 so great you guys congratulations how long did that take seven years start to finish wow and your range of income during that time we started at about 120 and our highest year was 350 wow good for you what do y'all do for a living i'm a real estate appraiser. Ah. And I'm an underground miner. Okay, very good.

OT. Lots of it. Lots of OT. Yeah, and that's good money. That's really good OT right there. Wow. So what started this whole process seven years ago with this Ramsey thing, getting out of debt thing? It was a scary tax bill, so similar to your IRS.

I got our tax bill, and we weren't prepared. And so that made us realize that our finances were an absolute mess and we had no communication skills. So we decided to clean it up, got our act together. And after searching for some plans, we found yours and it just made sense. It was simple. It was easy to follow. So we jumped on. Good for you guys.

Incredible. So before you guys were scattered, you said you really didn't talk about money. So what's the before and after picture as you're standing on this stage from where you guys were seven years ago, even as a married couple, right? I mean, like your whole life versus today. What is that transformation like? Well, it's just, we're being honest with ourselves now, not hiding anything from each other or making purchases without talking to each other.

Back then, it was just a lot of, you know, fly by, see your pants. A lot of individuality. Yes, totally. Yeah. So how has that increased your marriage unity and everything? Yeah, for sure. Because we agree on what we're spending money on.

And really, it's everything. It's not just... And sometimes we laugh because you'll say like, well, I got to talk to my wife. And it's not like, you know, I have a whip type thing. But it's more just because we want to agree. We want to do this together. And is this decision in line with our plans? And that's why we'll discuss. So great. What was the 110? You said consumer debt. Was it

credit cards, loans, everything? Yeah. Credit cards, loans, personal loans, vehicles. Yeah. So we started off, we sold the two vehicles right away. So that was about $55,000 of the debt was gone. And then the remaining 55 000 was paid over a year oh my gosh you all did that quick yeah i had to let go i had uh atvs snow machines all the fun toys all the toys so a toy collector yeah once i went to let go of that put them for sale it was real um so and jeff had a real dave a $1,500 car that he got from a buddy there it is on YouTube that's nasty yeah and it was funny because his weekly paychecks were more than $1,500 but he's driving that thing right yes yeah and his guys his buddies are going what are

you doing yeah exactly but I had a good friend who helped me out, and it was his mom's old car. So when he heard the journey we were jumping on, he sold that to me. What was that, a Ford Fairlane or something? Crown Victoria. Crown Victoria. I thought it was, yeah. A land yacht. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Very cool. How many miles did it have on it? Actually, not that many. It was his mom's old car. It was just ugly and old.

She drove from home to work, which was only a few kilometers. So it had a lot of life left in it. Oh, it did. Did it ever? Yeah, it was actually in great shape. That's the problem. It would have lasted too long. Oh, my goodness.

Yes. Okay, so was that part hard? Because for a lot of people getting out of debt, the sacrificial end of the lifestyle, right? Decreasing lifestyle to get margin. Right. And when you're used to living a certain way, to what can feel like going backwards to obviously move forward, you're doing it for a reason.

How was that? Was that hard? It was. I can go with that ego, especially making, you know, we were making good money, just not smart with it. So, you know, surrounded by nice vehicles at work in the parking lot and then driving in with that. Once you put that aside, there was an end game. We knew it wasn't forever.

And now we're back into the vehicles that we had in the past. So good. Yeah. So it feels really great. We just had to decide in that moment that we didn't care what people thought. Yeah. Like if they laughed, whatever. Like they don't see our bank account. they don't see our net worth going up and actually that's

a huge tip that i can add is that we tracked our net worth every month we would look at all our accounts and the debts and just track it so we started at a 27 000 net worth and now we're at 1.3 in seven years so if they laughed at our car that's fine totally yeah check this out i don't see your net worth but no one sees that right no they don't no it's like the secret thing you know it's the secret number that no one knows and people that look like they have a high one you assume oh my gosh they're doing so well right but usually they're just normal yeah and have payments yeah yeah wow way to go guys. That's a perfect paradigm. That's a perfect way of looking at it.

They don't get a vote because they don't get to see everything. There's a high correlation between people that build wealth and those that quit caring what other people think. It really is. It's a huge thing. This need to impress is very expensive. It's a very expensive hobby. So what's the first big thing

you're going to do to celebrate? We're here. Yeah. What are you going to do big? Cool. I don't know. It's hard to think big. We've been limited for so long.

But this is our first family trip since the journey. Yeah. So it's going to be a week long. We're going to catch a hockey game. Oh, good. Okay. And make it fun. Good Predators game while you're here in Nashville then. Yeah, it's going to be a week long um we'll catch a hockey game okay um okay and make a make it fun

good predators game while you're here in nashville then yeah yeah it's also symbolic we i had a trip to nashville booked for july 2016 when we decided in april to get out of debt i canceled that trip so it's it's full circle here i am back after you're completely debt free incredible that's a good that's a good mark right there. So not only to see you, but Nashville was symbolic even before. Totally, totally. Oh, I love it. We're not the only cool thing in Nashville.

So there you go. I know you guys have a little guy. How old is he? Eli is 10 years old. He's 10. Okay. Eli, go on up with your mom and dad. So he was three when you guys kind of started this.

Yes. So you had a little one. His Christmas during our baby step two, he got $2 store mini sticks. So dollars that's all he got so he was young enough he didn't know he didn't know play with the box anyway yeah yeah oh so great look at the little baby picture that's oh yeah they're his sticks yeah he's a cute kid oh my gosh well done you guys all right what's the secret to getting out of debt when people ask you what are the things they ought to do communication and that's key communicate together weekly budget meetings yes not caring what people think yeah not giving up when it's

hard yeah you're not kidding when you say you'll pass out before so yeah before you did some long hours and uh and you were right about that so you didn't die from hard work no exactly right before you die you'll pass out yeah uh hey jeff talk to the guy out there that's got a big old some kind of collection of something that's toy type stuff what what did your what did your emotions go through how did you flip the switch to go, my wife and my baby are more important than this collection of stuff? Because that's what happened in your head. It had to be. Yeah.

Just be honest. Trust the process. It's not forever. You'll get those things back. Whether it may not be exactly the model you had before. But then you'll realize that having a nice truck doesn't mean big tires um you know you can get that but um it's good yeah still enjoy and be happy with it so yeah fun fun yeah i've got more toys than i had before i went broke so i mean it's

like we went broke lost them all and you know live like no one else and now we can drive and play like no one else right and do whatever we want to do so well i'm proud of you guys way to go you're heroes well done you changed you changed that young man eli's whole life his family trees changed because you two grew up way to go very well done jeffrey julianne and eli 345 000 paid off 1. 1.7? 1.3. $1.3 million net worth. Baby Steps Millionaires in seven years making $120,000 to $350,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo! The ones that pay off their house and do their debt-free scream are often Baby Steps Millionaires simultaneously. Be watching that. That number's there. This is The Ramsey Show.

Student loan debt is an epidemic. A pandemic. And defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse but our question of the day sponsor why refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay you'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else, go to YRefi.com today slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Carter in New Hampshire. He says, my wife and I are avid listeners, but we don't share the same views financially. I'm an analyzer when it comes to finances and it annoys her to no end.

I have a two-year emergency fund and our home is paid off. Together we earn $200,000 a year. She likes to spend and wants me to co-sign on a vehicle that's $80,000. She has $10,000 in credit card debt and she pays $15,000 each year for private school for our kids if i mentioned anything about money i'm the one who's wrong i wish i could say that we pay for vacations recreational toys and trips but these funds come from my checking account and she gets mad when i say that i pay for them is it okay to have an account together to pay bills and separate for spending accounts uh i mean i think you guys are disjointed completely when it comes to money.

I mean, obviously this is like a pick and choose what we want to do together and what we don't. And I think the goal here is that you are a unified team with all of it, right? All of it together. So the spending, the saving, where your kids are going to college or to school, what kind of cars you guys you know what kind

of cars you guys buy that you are in agreement together in those things and so some we owe she's a spender so you guys are in a great position you have no debt you have great emergency funds so if she wants to go spend a little you can't be crazy and be like no you can't spend anything right and you sound a little bit it sounds a little crazy to a degree carter uh that she just wants a little bit of freedom but then she on the other end is not what it sounds like a thousand dollar car and credit card debt that's crazy the same value system though is what's not being played out so i think that's that's the issue is that you guys are functioning not on the same value system and so it's looking like a mess like this and and the accounts that doesn't fix it i think i don't think they have a money problem people they have a marriage right but that's the problem

is people think is it okay if we just have separate accounts and what that does is it sweeps the one issue that you actually need to talk about under the rug it doesn't fix it it actually continues to alienate you guys from each other so no carter i would not do these separate accounts i would force you guys to work out so no carter i would not do these separate accounts i would force you guys to work out of one account because to your point it's actually going to reveal other issues that are actually going on in your marriage yeah and i'm the one that's wrong she gets mad you know if you just change out the subject and it wasn't money and you're talking about something else and she acted that way or you acted that way, you overanalyzed everything, which is what you're doing for sure.

And on the other hand, then she's acting like a princess and stomping her foot with her little red face out until I get what I want. And if you don't let me have what I want, then you're wrong. This is a marriage problem. You guys desperately need to sit down with someone because here's the problem. Okay. The probability that you have a high quality marriage going forward using this system is close to zero. You may or may not get divorced later, but you're definitely not having fun in your relationship. And the probability that you build wealth with both of you pulling at each other the whole time instead of pulling the wagon?

No, almost zero. One of the things we found when we studied wealthy people is the data tells us that they work together with their spouse. They're unified in their goals. They're aiming at the same target and pulling the trigger together. That's what we're doing. And you can't drag along a princess. She can't drag along someone who overanalyzes everything and has no fun left anywhere in life because you squeeze every dollar until George Washington screams. And no, you've got to have something in here. We've got to have some flow to this, some relationship to this that's not in here. And so, yeah, this desperately screams of a need for marriage counseling to me.

For sure. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Bo's with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Bo. How are you? I'm doing good. Can you hear me5225. Bo's with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Bo. How are you? I'm doing good. Can you hear me? Absolutely. What's up?

So I wanted to know if I can keep using my credit card. And I know you're probably going to say no, but I'm going to try anyway. You're right. No. Do your convincing, Bo. Give it your best shot, Bo. All right. So this is a unique situation. I've never heard it it on your show and i've been only listening for like five months okay so i have one credit card um i have a medical condition and my medication is insanely expensive

and uh i can't afford it until i hit my deductible, which my insurance will cover, but my deductible is $13,000. And so the pharmaceutical company that makes it will reimburse me for it. And I've been doing this for two years. And so I use the credit card and I get cash back for the, and then they reimburse me in a few days. So is that something that i would keep it for why don't you just pay cash why don't you pay cash i can i have but it's really expensive oh good we'll pay cash and then you and then you still get reimbursed it's really expensive either way dude you're out the money either way right yeah but i get it the money back from the

pharmaceutical okay and so you use your cash and then you get your cash right back i can do that but i get another 300 bucks or oh whoope. Okay. You're going to sell your financial soul for $300? Well, it's... I never met a millionaire who said, you know, Dave, I made all my money on my airline miles. It's not airline miles. I know. It's $300. $300 has never created a millionaire. Okay.

Biscuit money. I agree. I just don't make a lot of money, so it's really... Well, then that's a... If $300 is a lot of money, then that's a different problem, isn't it? You have an income problem then. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to make more money. Why?

It's not because I'm lazy. I'm not really worth a lot of money. Why? Society would say I lack intelligence or education. They're different. You don't lack intelligence. You've carried on a very clear conversation in a high-pressure situation. You don't lack intelligence.

You've done a good job in this banter that we've had here, which was kind of fun. So you're not lacking in intelligence. You might not have education. That doesn't mean you're not able to make a living what do you do what do you make i make uh 26 35 an hour okay that's not super bad you were getting 40 hours no i worked well it varies but seasonally i work between 30 and 45 hours a week. It depends on what time of year. What do you do?

It's kind of, I work for a distribution center. I operate, the simplest way I could say it is I manage robots. Okay, are you 24? Are you 24? No, I'm 42. I'm sorry? 42. 42. Okay. So here's the deal. What I would do if I were you is I would say, hey, I can be anything I want to be. What are the steps to being one of those? And I could make twice as much money being one of those. And I want to go start working towards being one of those.

And it could be an apprentice program. It could be a certification program. It could be a couple of classes at the local community college. I don't know. But you're capable of doing all of those things. And so your issue is that you need to increase your income and have some career goals. We'll help you with that.

I'm going to give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want to get the title right, so I turned around and looked at it. And it's got in it the Get Clear Assessment. I don't have to look at it because we've had over 100,000 people take this assessment. And it'll help you get clear on what your skills are. And I want you to go work on that bow to where $300 to where you're no longer in a place where you think $300 changes your life. Don't be in a place where you think 300 bucks changes your life. You want to be in a better place than that. And then you don't fall into the traps of these stinking banks and these stinking

credit card companies. And you get sucked in thinking they're actually there to help you. They're not. So, problem solved. Hang on. We'll give that to you as our gift. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show,

where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality No. 1 bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. This is a Baby Steps Millionaire Theme Hour. If you are a millionaire, we want to talk to you and learn about you so that other people who aren't yet a millionaire can hear what it sounds like to be one and how to get there. Let me help you with what a millionaire is. Some people don't know. Some people are confused. It is not an income of a million dollars a year. You can have a million dollar a year income and still not be a millionaire. It's possible.

Not probable, but it's possible. A millionaire by definition is an accounting term. It is a simple math formula. What you own minus what you owe equals your net worth. Your assets minus your liabilities equals your net worth. Your assets minus your liabilities equals your net worth. When your net worth is greater than $1 million, you are, by definition, a millionaire. It's not a feeling.

Well, no one should have wealth. It's not a moral construct. It's a math thing. Well, $1 million isn't enough. enough well maybe we can talk about that but you're still a millionaire if you have a million dollar net worth well it's all in this house doesn't matter a house is an asset it's all in cash doesn't matter cash is an asset well i don't understand i don't care if you understand. This is what it is. Period.

There's only one definition. People say net worth millionaire. That's a redundant term. That's like saying millionaire millionaire. Because all millionaires are net worth millionaires. It is the only kind of millionaire there is. There's not another kind, so you don't have to put an adjective in front of it. It's not net worth millionaire. It's just millionaire. And the data tells us that most millionaires that become millionaires are boring. They simply invest money in their 401k out of

their paycheck, and they pay off their house. And that's what most of them do that's the first one to five million dollars it's just the old a matter of fact james our producer found the video of an actual millionaire versus the typical american fire that up and let the people on youtube see it and rachel and i will do a play by play of what a real millionaire looks like versus most people. Here we go. You ready? It's the tortoise versus the hare. The classic. You know the story. The hare is always distracted distracted looking at things they can't afford buying things with money they don't have to impress people they don't even really like

they have a great gun collection, a great purse collection and cars that they can't afford parked in front of a cheap house meanwhile the tortoise just keeps on walking. This is a live video of an actual tortoise. This is a live video of an actual tortoise. This is a tortoise actually winning the race, beating the hare.

It's actually some of our YouTube geniuses here. It's actually a really, yeah. It's not bad. It's a big old tortoise. It's a huge tortoise, and it doesn't stop. And the pace is consistent. You see, he just kept the same pace, just kept going. And that hare was kind of back and forth, looking up, looking around.

And that's it. I'm like, it's. It is. And it's boring. All flashy i mean it's yeah it's not the cool like this new thing we could actually name the hair bitcoin oh my gosh and we could name the tortoise millionaire there you go all right because that's what happens you're just distracted you're looking for a quick easy way and all the people cheering for you, they're not helping because you're still just going to be your own worst enemy. All the way around, yeah. And by the way, I was a hare in my 20s, and I lost everything and went broke.

And so I have adopted the tortoise personality since then and the tortoise haircut. So I'm full-on tortoise at this point. I'm big time into tortoises because I found what works, and I'm sticking with it. So we're talking to real millionaires, not your broke brother-in-law with an opinion. Alex is in Charlottesville, Virginia. Alex, what's your net worth? About $1.5 to $1.6 million.

Cool. Give me a little breakdown by category. How much in-house and 401k and so forth? My house is worth $225,000 or so, best estimate. 401k, I've got $300,000 some odd thousand in there. I've got almost $200,000 in Roth IRA. I've got a SEP IRA, which has about 65, 70,000 in it. I've got, you know, a traditional IRA, a liquid investment account. And I also recently became an accredited investor. So I've got, oh God, probably 300, 350,000 in there.

And then I also own my own business. And the only thing I really count towards my net worth is the value of that building, which is probably 350,000 to 400,000. That's the building that that's in. Okay, how old are you? How old are you? 42. 42.

How much of this did you inherit? I didn't inherit anything. Zero. Okay. Okay. And your best year of income since you started working and your worst year of income since you started working? My best year, I probably made $280,000 before taxes. My worst year was probably in my early 20s, and I think I made $52,000 or $53,000.

Okay, cool. What's your career? I own my own business. I'm an electrical engineer. Okay. And I make equipment for aircraft. Gotcha. All right.

Are you an engineering degree? Yes, electrical engineering. Okay. All right, cool. What was your GPApa wasn't very good 2.8 2.8 i got out thank you lordy graduated thank you lordy that was pretty much it yeah i like it i like it cool all right so you're listening you have listening in to us out here and i'm promise you with uh 30 million people out there that we do have this person listening they're 22 years old and they're studying electrical engineering can they still

do this in america today oh absolutely in fact they could probably get ahead of where i am uh just by being a little more aggressive with their investments that's the first thing you tell them to keep investing because you've done a great job you You've got lots of 401ks, Roths, SEPs, and credited investors. You paid off your building, and you're not living in a $2 million house. You're living, and you make $280,000. I mean, you've really focused on this, done a great job. Yeah, I don't know what I'm – I probably won't make $280,000 this year, but I'm sure I'll do pretty well.

That's okay. Alex, do you have a family? Are you married with kids? I am not married and no well. That's okay. Alex, do you have a family? Are you married with kids? I am not married and no children. That's great. I have two dogs. Hey, they count. What's the biggest mistake you've ever made with money?

I don't know. It's very hard to say that. I am actually, the best way I can describe my relationship with money is i am terrified of debt so um you know i think the the worst decision i ever made was loaning money to family oh yeah because that that got into that terror thing and transferred to the family wow well congratulations sir 42 years old no inheritance 1.6 million dollar net worth something to think about this is the ramsey show there's a time in your life and did the baby steps for renting but you don't want to do it

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Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. It's a baby steps, millionaires theme hour. We're talking to real millionaires about what their life looks like, how they did it. So if you're not one, you can learn how. That's the purpose.

And can it still be done in America? There's a lot of lies that are believed about millionaires. One lie is that you must be doing something famous to be a millionaire, like a pro sports figure, a rock star, a country music star, a Hollywood actor. Less than 1% of America's millionaires are people that you know who they are less than one percent most of them are like people sitting in my lobby right now and they all look just like other people and they're not on the tv screen and they're not on the basketball court and so on and so as a matter of fact a lot of the people that are like that aren't millionaires because they're so horrible at handling money. And so it's very interesting.

But you don't have to be famous to be a millionaire. That's mythology. It's less than 1%. It's a method. It is a method of getting there, but it's not the typical method statistically. John's in New York City. John, what's your net worth? How you doing, Dave?

Thanks for having me on. My net worth is 1.65 million. Cool. Give me a little breakdown by category. Sure. So I have about 125 in high-yield savings. I have 340K in a brokerage account, and the rest is in IRA and mutual funds, ETFs, you know, broken up, kind of diversified. Okay.

You don't own any real estate? Well, actually, I have about $350,000. I have a house and have about $350,000 in equity in it right now, which I kind of didn't include, which I should have. Yeah, that's a $2 million net worth then. Okay. All right. Very cool. Doing better than you thought you were, John, before you called.

Got to raise while you're on the phone. That's pretty good. How old are you? 64. 64. And how much of this $1.6 or $2 million did you inherit? Recently, my dad passed this past March, so I inherited $400,000 from him. So I had about $1.25 before he passed.

Okay, so you were already a millionaire before you got an inheritance. Yes. So it's fair to say that you did not become a millionaire, but it was enhanced, but you did not become a millionaire because of an inheritance, correct? That's correct. Okay, just making sure I get my story exactly straight. So your best year working income and your worst year working income? My worst year was when I first got out of college.

I probably made only about $30,000. And my best year is about $190,000. Okay. What was your career or is your career? I was in IT. I did a whole bunch of different things. Technician, manager, director, sales engineer. So I ran the gamut.

That's great. Are you retired now, John? Yes. Wonderful. Four-year degree? Yeah, I have a four-year degree. In what? In my degree is actually in criminal justice.

Okay. All right. And then you got into IT. And your GPA in criminal justice was what? 3.8. 3.8. All right. And then you got into IT. And your GPA in criminal justice was what? 3.8. 3.8. All right. Very cool. Very cool. All right. I'm 64. You're 64. So can people still do this today? Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't say it's easy, but you just need to be disciplined. And the earlier

you start, the easier it gets. It's simple, but it's not easy. Right. That's what I always think of. Yeah, good. Very cool. What's the worst thing you ever did with money? What's your biggest mistake?

My biggest mistake, actually, I was doing pretty good in my career, and I always lived below my means. At one point, I bought a boat. Ah, the two greatest days in a man's life when he buys a boat and when he sells it yep that's it so why was it a mistake because you went into debt for it or you just wouldn't use it what was the mistake of the boat well well I think the big the biggest thing is I went into debt for it which was a huge mistake but you know luckily you know I made enough money along the way that it really didn't impact me. So, you know, at the end of the day, you know, myself and my family, we enjoyed it.

We have a lot of great memories on the boat. Yes, it's good. And it didn't sink him. Ba-da-bum. There you go. I've been waiting for that one day. You knew that was coming, right? Walking dad joke.

Okay, the definition of a dad joke. So, yeah, very cool, very cool. All right, what do you drive? I actually drive today. I drive actually a BMW 330, but I have a caveat about that. I will never buy one new. I bought a 2018 as a three-year lease return because I know I've had more than one BMW.

All the depreciation is up front. So you buy a lease return, that's 50% depreciation. I bought a really nice car with 35,000 miles on it for $23,000. Yeah, and that's a $50,000 car. Yep. Yeah, okay. Good for you. Well done.

Love it, love it. Well done, sir. Congratulations. Proud of you. Mike is in. Good for you. Well done. Love it. Love it. Well done, sir. Congratulations. Proud of you. Mike is in Buffalo, New York. Mike, your net worth is what? About $4.5 million. Good for you.

I like it. And give me a little breakdown by category on that, sir. Paid a house off when I was 50. It's worth about $600 610 today. Between Schwab and Fidelity, I have a financial planner that manages about 45% of our net worth, about 2.5 million. My wife has about 750 in her 401k. A small annuity, a very low cost one, 300 grand in that. and gold and silver physical coins about 33 000 then your favorite uh i own some cryptocurrency and some um some altcoin i only it's only one or two percent of my portfolio my net worth uh and so it's like 45 000 worth uh 80 000 80 okay all right 80

okay cool and then cash 85 grand and then another 60,000 sitting around in stock from the company that I used to work for. I retired last June of 23. Cool. What was your career? I was in sales. Oh, cool. And how old are you?

63. 63. And how much of this did you inherit? About 810,000. So we had over $3 million. Well, we didn't have over $3 million at the time. We inherited about a year ago. But we have $3 million of the $3.9 million is ours.

And I came from parents that were frugal times 10. So you were already a millionaire before you got an inheritance. That's correct. You were a $3 millionaire before you got an inheritance. That's correct. You were a three millionaire before you got an inheritance. That's correct. Okay. I hit my first million about 11 years ago, and you take out this $600,000, $700,000, and then I added to it, and in those years working post that,

we basically took the portfolio up two and a half times. Gotcha. What's your degree in? Just business. Business management. Okay. And your GPA, do you remember it? Yeah, I was, you know, I was working 30, 35 hours a week in a restaurant.

It was about 3.1, 3.2. Good for you. Okay, cool. All right. We're about the same age. Do you think Americans can still do this today? Do you think a guy in sales can go out there and end up with $5 million net worth by the time he's 63? This is what sets me on fire is today you have more opportunities than ever.

In the 80s, if you wanted to buy 100, you had a minimum of 100 shares, right? I'll make this short and sweet. 100 shares would cost you a couple hundred dollars plus 100 shares. So if you were buying something for 50 bucks, you had to have 5,200 dollars. In the 90s, it was about $40 trading cost with 100 share minimum. In about 2011, 2012, the market makers, the Schwab's and the Fidelity's, free trading, no minimums, fractional share. So if you're a guy struggling, the end of the month, you got 76 bucks. I'm being facetious here.

You could go in and buy whatever. Say Eli Lilly is selling at 109. You could buy a fractional share at no cost. There is no other generation that has had as many opportunities as these kids today. There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be a millionaire by the time you're 50. Absolutely no reason at all. You heard a millionaire by the time you're 50 absolutely no reason at all you heard it from mike there you go i'm sold mike i'm ready i'm ready i i that's just the truth yeah that's just the way it is

what do you drive uh i i drive a tundra me and my wife bought two new cars, and we said, hey, we've arrived. You've arrived. You're driving a Toyota. Yeah, I drive a Toyota, but, you know, Dave, I will drive this car for probably 12, 15 years. I wasn't shaming you. I'm happy for you. The woman to my right, her husband drives

it, and my son-in-law drives a tundra. He loves it. I love it. It's a great truck. Yep. Yep. I only drive 7,000 plus miles a year, so it's going to take ara. He loves it. I love it. It's a great truck. Yep. Yep. I only drive 7,000 plus miles a year, so it's going to take a while. You don't have to justify it. I think you're okay. I think you're going to be okay. Enjoy it.

You did okay, Mike. You did good, man. The number of people that drive a stinking Toyota that have million-dollar net worths, they're everywhere. A Toyota. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. This is The Ramsey Show. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like

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So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. This is a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. If you are on Baby Step 4 retirement, you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund, or beyond, five is kids' college, six is pay off the house, seven is you've done it all, you're debt-free and building wealth and outrageously generous. If you're anywhere in those, we are doing a cruise, the live like no one else cruise. You should not go on this cruise if you're still in debt and getting out. That's not what we want you to do.

We want you to get out of debt first. But if you're doing this, Holland Americans is the line that we're on. It's fabulous. It's one of their newer ships. It's all-inclusive, of course. And it's all the Ramsey personalities. We're each going to be doing sessions in the evenings. We've also got Manit Chauhan from the food channel with us uh stephen

curtis chapman uh dina carter famous country music star be doing uh shows with us as well and so we will be the entertainment we will be on the ship the entire week from march 22 through 29 this coming spring there are we're 97 sold out so we probably should just quit doing these ads actually but anyway we're going to keep doing them comedian trey kennedy is going to be with us as well he has made a career out of making fun of me and so it's going to be really funny and a lot of fun so uh looking forward to seeing trey so i can choke him. No, I'm kidding. It's going to be fun. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise and get your cabin reserved before they're all gone because they're just about all gone.

Ted is with us in Philadelphia. Ted, what's your net worth? Good afternoon, Ted. I'm about 2.26. Wow, very cool. All right, and a little breakdown by category. Oh, $700,000 in a 401k, $300,000 in cash, and then the rest in some, you know, stocks and bonds. Okay, no real estate?

A home that I've been in for a long time. We have a value of about 1.3 on the home. I don't see any more. Digi about 250. And I know you don't like that, but I'm at 2.65, and I can pay for that. I have an investment account that's generating enough to pay for that. So I don't really feel that. Okay, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just trying to find out where you are.

Okay, so you have a house that has equity in it of how much? About a million. About a million. Of your 2.26, a million is in your house? That's correct. Okay, that's what I wanted. All right, a million at home. Okay, cool.

All right, and how much of all this did you inherit? Not a dollar. Not a zero. Neither, not a nada. How old are you? 58. 58. 58. What was your career?

I did a lot of consulting. I'm like an operational consultant. I can look at operational efficiencies and statistical analysis of financial statements to find inefficiencies. Gotcha. Business degree? Business degree, yes. GPA? 3.8.

All right. Very cool. What do you drive? Well, I drive a luxury SUV, but certainly not one that I bought new. Okay. I bought my SUV three years old about three years ago, and I still have it. Very cool. What kind of luxury?

What is it? It's a Porsche Cayenne. Oh, those are nice. Very cool. Good for you. Good. Well, you should's a Porsche Cayenne. Oh, those are nice. Very cool. Good for you. Good. Well, you should. I'm a bit of an on-move enthusiast.

Yeah, well, I mean, you got $2 million net worth. You ought to drive a Porsche. That's pretty good. I like it. All right, good, good. Can this still be done today? Well, I think if you're deliberate and methodical, it can. You know, and what I've said to my kids is you know as you enter the corporate

world and you start to work with these corporations anything that they're willing to give you you need to take if they're going to match your 401k you take it if you can buy stock at a discount you take it and it's not about how much you're going to make it's about how much can you keep and the more they give and the more you make doesn't mean it's the more you spend. It's the more you can keep. And I think if you follow that and you stay true to that, then certainly. So like we opened up, you're more of the tortoise than the hare then? Well, yeah, I think so.

I would have to say yes, that's true. Well, he wins the race. It's a good thing. Well, even at home now, my wife and I think so. I would have to say yes, that's true. Well, he wins the race. It's a good thing. Well, even at home now, you know, my wife and I are in, you know, we built the home new back in the mid-90s. It was a struggle for us to get there. And, you know, here we are 30 plus years later still in that home. Yeah.

So I'm curious, Ted, and even Dave, you can chime into this, you know, to reach a status like a millionaire status, I mean, it's awesome. It's unbelievable. People listening are like, gosh, I wish, that'd be nice to get there. So what does that give you when you say, hey, I'm a millionaire.

For you, what is the benefits versus obviously just the title is great, but what does it give you in the quality of your life? Is it peace? Is it opportunity? Is it memories with family? Like, what is this doing for you, Ted? Well, you know, I can come full circle with that because to me, it's a sense of freedom. So I had been self-employed for the longest time and my wife was fortunate with her career. She had some flexibilities as well. So, you know, our give back was a lot of volunteering. You know, we were the coaches, we were the mystery readers in the kids' classrooms,

we were the ones running the snack bar, you know, we were the ones volunteering for, you know, the cancer functions. And I think now as we've come into this, you know, the volunteering now has changed into the ability to start to make monetary differences. You know, as our time becomes our asset that we want to keep now, we're willing to provide a little more funding than we could have before. So it's really that sense of freedom and the ability to contribute into the community. I love that.

Well done, Hero. So good. Very well done. Proud of you, man. Congratulations. Very, very cool cool thanks for sharing your story julie is with us in houston julie what's your net worth uh one million very good and give me a little breakdown on that uh it's 500 in mutual funds my house is worth about 350 um it's paid, and the rest is liquid and a classic car. Okay, cool.

And how old are you? I'm 39, and my husband's 40. Excellent. How much of this did you inherit? $10,000. Okay. So you did not become a millionaire mathematically from that. Okay.

All right. Good, good. And what's your best year working income, your worst year working income? Well, my husband, so I'm a stay at home mom and I've been at home for 10 years and my husband has only been making six figures the past two years and the job he's at currently, like he's been there our whole marriage what's he doing what's he doing uh he's a field service manager and he's been there 13 years and he started at thirty thousand dollars and with hard work and raises and promotion and he promotions he's now at 130 i quit my job

when we decided to have kids and he was only making $40,000, but we always lived off of one income. Cause we knew that our goal was to have me at home with field service engineer and what field service manager and what, um, like, um, UPS. Okay.

All right, cool. All right, good. And does he have a four-year degree or do you? Yes. Yes, we both do. And what? He's actually the first one in his family to graduate college. So I'm proud of him.

That's awesome. What's his degree in? And business management. He had a 3.0 and I had a 3.4 in general. Ah, he married a smart woman. Okay. Very cool do you drive a toyota forerunner of course you do okay very cool i love it congratulations millionaire very very proud of you folks here's the thing you've heard the lie it's all over the place that all wealth is inherited in america today we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in north america 10 167 of them in detail airtight research technique had an outside research firm look over our shoulder because we knew some of the left-wing nut jobs would not like the conclusions. So this data is what is

known as facts. If you disagree with this, you're what's known as wrong. 89% of America's millionaires are not millionaires because of inheritance. Some of them, like these guys guys got some after they were millionaires some of them got a very small inheritance like this last one and most of them got zero 89 nine out of that should give you hope that means you can do it nine out of ten millionaires in america did it without an inheritance. Hmm. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like,

oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking

care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Thank you for joining us, America. This is a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. We're so glad you are with us. It's important to know that wealth in America today is not coming from inheritance. It's not coming from being famous. It is not coming from a 4.2 GPA. Not a bad thing to be that smart, but most of us aren't that smart. And you do need some gray matter.

A 1.6 probably won't cut it. You're probably not going to get there. If you graduated with a degree in beer pong, you might make it, but I doubt it. So what are we trying to do here? We're trying to say there are some uses out there. There are some things that people believe if you get a high GPA and you go to an expensive college that is famous, that that's going to make you a millionaire. There's no data to support that.

Going to a good school, getting a good degree that's very usable in the marketplace, and getting a reasonable GPA is typically around a 3.0. That's what we find is an indicator that you're going to be there. And I'm not telling you to goof off. I mean, if you can get a 3.4, go get it. A 3.8, that's fine, go get it. But that doesn't mean that you're more or less likely. Okay? That's not how this works.

So the data tells us that, you know, that most of these people do have a four-year degree. There is a correlation there. but they have useful degrees, you know, electrical engineering, business, business, business, criminal justice, didn't use it, became IT. So, I mean, this is the pattern we see throughout these millionaires that we study. What's the joke that b students usually a students work for b students later in life actually yeah it's a joke but it's also a data backed thing it's just the idea of like yeah go go figure it out you're okay don't stress about i don't know every single

thing don't you're not gonna die over this oh and by the way people don't steal their way into wealth either you get to go to jail if you do that and in today's world if you're a crook everybody knows it because everybody tells everybody there's all kinds of places to prove you know put out there this guy's a crook this girl's a crook so this idea that all wealthy people are crooks is absolutely asinine there's the same percentage or less percentage of crooks among the wealthy than there is among the regular other strata on the socioeconomic ladder. And by the way, all poor people aren't crooks either, but some of them are. All rich people aren't crooks, but some of them are

because there's always a percentage of morons. It's just part of the deal. And it's not going to do with wealth. Matter of fact, integrity is actually an indicator that you're going to become wealthy. part of the deal and it's not getting to do with wealth yeah you know yeah and i think matter of fact integrity is actually an indicator that you're going to become well and i think a point of this segment number one is is to prove that you can still win financially today right like if you put things into place you can win and the benefits of winning financially is not that because you have x amount of zeros in your accounts means that your

life is suddenly better because there are rich, miserable people out there. But it's what you do with that money that creates a life that is full. You can still have a full life and not be a millionaire, right? You can still have joy. And this is not an indicator of any of that. But it is a ability. our last caller said and i loved it where he's like it's just freedom you know like money is a tool to create a life that you love and you have options and you have the ability to do things you want to do when you have the monetary means to be able to do it and that's a spouse staying at home like whatever that looks like for you and so for this you know i think that's an important point in it right it's not

just to become a millionaire because suddenly your life's going to be fixed because it's not there's a lot of really you know people that relationally are not great in their millionaires you know and they don't talk to their families like it's it's not an indicator that your life is going to be perfect no matter of fact what wealth does is it magnifies every area of your life. It magnifies the good and the bad in your life. If there's crazy in your life, you get a lot of crazy in your life. If there's chaos in your life, you get a lot of chaos in your life. If there's anger in your life, you're going to get a lot of anger in your life. Money makes you have more of whatever it is. That's right. And so if you're happy and generous, you're going to have a lot of happy and generous.

Yep. And the character part of you, so those of you that aren't here yet and say, okay, I want to get there. Who you are in the process is as important, more important, more important as the numbers in that account, right? So that's why giving, we always teach in the budget, giving is the very first thing you do, regardless of where you are financially, like practicing these habits of selflessness and living with an open hand, because as you get more, you're going to become more of that. And that's an indicator of joy and peace in your life when you're a giver. So who you are in this process is really important, and we care about that. It's very, very important. Jesse is in Madison, Wisconsin.

Hi, Jesse. What's your net worth? Good afternoon, Mr. Ramsey, and thank you for you and your team having me on today. I truly appreciate your time. Sure. My net worth is just over $1 million. Good for you. Give me a little breakdown by category. Sure. So investments between Roth IRAs, 401k, TSP is just over $680,000. That's not including my military or state retirement. $529,000 of $21,000. We've got about $280,000 of equity into our house. We still have about $217,000 on our mortgage, and then the rest is emergency savings and some assets of about $72,000.

Good for you. And how old are you? 37. And how much of this did you inherit? None. Zero. And what do are you? 37. And how much of this did you inherit? None. Zero. And what do you make a year? This year, about $250,000, or $205,000. What do you do?

I work in cybersecurity in the Army National Guard. Ah, good for you. Okay. All right. Four-year degree? Yes, actually. And kind of when I was listening to the last caller and when you guys came on, it was a four-year degree but never really used it.

And ironically, I recently went back to a technical college for IT and cybersecurity networking. Best investment I ever made. It was cheaper and I was able to cash flow it because of the post-9-11 GI Bill. That's awesome. Big time. So what was your GPA on that? Or is that a pass for you? For the bachelors, it was a 3.12 for the bachelors,

and then I kind of got my act together a little bit more, and I was a little bit wiser, but a 3.98 for the tech college. Ah, got it. Okay, so what was your four-year degree in? History. History, very good. Okay, cool. Good for you. You think this can still be done if you're a 37-year-old looking at a 22-year-old out there? Can they still do this in 15 years?

Absolutely. The three things that really worked for us were the budget. My family jokes about me nerding out over our budget all the time, but one of the things I wish I would have done a lot earlier in my life because I would have seen not to spend on kind of pointless items that didn't really give me the opportunity down the road, as well as starting to invest earlier. I wish I would have done it, even if it was a little bit. It still would have made, you know, my older self would have thanked

my younger self a lot more during the time in the market. What do you drive? Oh, a 2021 Toyota Sienna. A Toyota. Of course you do. Good. Gosh. It's the dad van, but I love that thing.

We need a sponsor. We need a sponsor for this hour, the Toyota. Toyota hour. Toyota needs to sponsor this hour. It's incredible. A minivan's a great choice though jesse with little kids you have a beautiful family yeah we saw them pop up there on the uh on the old youtube so very cool congratulations brother very very proud of you good stuff so one of the

things that people get confused on is the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire millionaires do not have private jets second homes and they don't drive 245 000 lamborghinis billionaires do or can so you know sometimes people get really confused most millionaires live in a standard house maybe slightly above average and they drive a toyota and i think what's hard is i remember when i was a kid so this was what 20 years ago there was a movie called blank check on disney channel you probably don't remember it but they uh this kid like picks up a blank check and he types in one million dollars i mean this is in the early 90s and he buys a castle he gets a limo with a

driver like he like shows oh yeah this crazy lifestyle for one million dollars so i do think there's like this nostalgia of like if i have a million dollars i you know what i mean like it's like it's like it will do more than it'll actually do i get to buy a castle and have a driver yeah probably not not much of a castle not much of a driver if you did but it's a great start and that's why we feature it because we want to give you guys hope that it is entirely possible y'all can find the blank check meme that's that's your zach that's the that's it hey the next segment will be on the ramsey network app it's a free download be sure and check that out on your Apple or Google Play.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality and my daughter, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Trevor is with us in Toledo. Hi, Trevor. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than we deserve. What's up? So me and my wife are getting ready to build a house, and we have our down payment. The estimated cost of the building is going to be $300,000. We want to put $100,000 down, and we have an emergency fund. But we own another piece of property that has a cell phone tower lease on it,

and someone just contacted us and wants to buy us out for a 20-year payout on what we make on it, which would be $180,000. We don't know if that's the right thing to do or not. What's your thoughts? Well, the way I always analyze it is I reverse engineer it. If I had $180,000 laying in the middle of the kitchen table, would I use it as an additional down payment or would i buy a cell phone tower okay kind of makes it a no-brainer doesn't it that's kind of what i thought you were going to

say but i didn't know since it i know it's still rental but it's kind of like passive income because we don't have to do no repairs on it yeah oh i love i love the cell phone tower concept i don't have any problem with that at all but just a matter of choice would i rather would i borrow on a paid for home to buy a cell phone tower no i wouldn't and in effect that's what you're doing if you if you keep it now i do not know if the $180,000 is an accurate valuation. That's a different issue. Okay. That I would want to discover more. How much do you guys make a month off of it, Trevor?

We make $750 a month, $9,000 a year. Okay. And the piece of ground itself, if it didn't have a cell phone tower on it, is worth what? I'm not sure it's it's only spread into two lots and they were originally had trailers on them it's very small maybe a quarter of an acre not much in other words yeah okay all right so the whole most of the 180 then is just simply the cell phone tower lease valuation? Yes. Yeah, okay. Probably if you have a SmartVestor Pro,

I'd probably sit down with them and crunch the numbers on this, see what kind of rate of return they're picking off at, what kind of discount. It's called a discount rate that they're using, which is the rate of return they're using to value this. And I can't do that in my head right now over 20 years. It's $759,000 bucks. But they're paying you a flat rate of 20 years' worth of it at 180. Hmm.

Yeah, I don't know. I would want to get comfortable that that's the correct valuation on this. It sounds okay now that I'm running it backward a little, the high numbers. Anyway, yeah, either way way assuming the valuation is correct and they're not ripping you off it's not worth twice that i don't know if it is i don't think it is i think it's worth about what they're giving you maybe less and um so uh and they're making 5% of their money. This is weird.

Now I'm starting to... Okay. Again, if the evaluation is correct, I want the 180. Okay? I think it needs more. I'm starting to worry about this deal. I really want you to investigate this deal. Okay? I'm starting to worry about this deal. I really want you to investigate this deal. Okay? I'm starting to get spooked.

Because it sounds to me like they're making 5% on their money. Well, aren't they? Yeah. And I don't want them. But if he's making 9. That's not a deal that somebody would do. But he's making 9 grand a year on it. 9 grand on 180 is 5%.

So, but over 20 years, 20-year payout. 5% a year. And people don't do deals like this for 5% rate of return. You can get that on a high-yield savings account. This is a risk deal. This doesn't make, that's too much. The 180 is too much. There's something wrong.

Maybe. But aren't they just paying? Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but maybe 5% spooks me. So, I want to learn a lot more about this if i'm you be very careful that you get the 180 as a lump sum up front certified funds with a proper closing attorney real estate closing attorney doing this for you this is not something you meet some guy at the walmart and do it just paying them what they would make on it? I know. And it's only making 5%. If I put 180 into this and I'm the investor, I'm making 5% on my money. I'm not doing this deal.

Yeah. It's not a good deal for them. It's overvalued. Unless there's something about that world I don't know, and that's very possible because I've never done a cell phone tower deal. I don't know how they work. But I know how the math works, and that's spooking me a little bit. I'm going to want to learn a lot more about it.

I have a good friend who has a farm, and these cellular guys stopped by and wanted to rent the farm for 20 years and put cellular panels in it to supply the local utility with a certain amount of solar panels, a certain amount of solar. And the more we got into it, the more we're like, no, there's something wrong here. And the numbers just didn't add up. And then when you got in the deal, it was like, oh, these people are trying to pull one. And so we ended up talking.

I mean, I told them to walk away from it. But, yeah. And that was not on the radio. That was just I told them to walk away from it. But, yeah. And that was not on the radio. That was just a friend of mine looking at a thing. So you just got to run the numbers and then make sure the people are straight up. If they are, the answer to your question is I would take 180 right this second. I would take it in a heartbeat if I can get it in cash and put it towards your house. That's the direction I would go, yes.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. So, you know, there's a good rule of thumb. A couple things I go with on investing, Rachel, and we've talked about this since you were a little kid even, is when in doubt, don't. Make sure your spouse doesn't have a bad feeling about it. If your spouse is spooked, it's okay to run because they usually have a reason for being spooked. And it's the Holy Spirit talking to your wife.

Just listen. It's a good thing. And because apparently you're not, and that's me anyway. So the, yeah, when in doubt, don't listen to your spouse. because apparently you're not and that's me anyway so um the um the yeah when in doubt don't listen to your spouse and if it sounds too good to be true the old line is it is you know and this one sounds a little bit too good to be true if i'm going to be real okay since we have one minute we can't take another car i'm going to keep going with this because i'm confused he makes nine thousand dollars a year on it so the guys that are like like, oh, I'll buy it from you and I'll just pay you what you would

make over 20 years. Why is that a sketchy deal? Doesn't that make sense? Well, because I'm the investor. If I put $180,000 in it and I get $9,000 back, that's a 5% rate of return. Yeah. But wouldn't they just want to own the land? I mean, isn't there other reasons? Well, the land land isn't worth anything the cell phone tower lease is the only

thing that has value yeah and so i i want to make a lot more if i'm putting something in money and something like that i want to make a lot more than five percent but it could just be a conservative investor that's trying to diversify and it could be that because it's a cell phone company and they're very big and it's credit and it could actually make can actually make more later. They could have all these, right? Yeah. I mean, we have what we call credit tenants in the commercial world. Yeah. Like a big name.

Like if your Home Depot were to rent from you. Right. Right. Then you would take a lot less rate of return than you would if Joe Blow rents from you. Because you know that they're going to make. Because it's a credit tenant. Yeah. Yeah.

They're strong. That could be what this is. And they're willing to accept that amount, low, they're strong. That could be what this is, and they're willing to accept that low amount for that. I wouldn't do that. If I were the investor, I wouldn't do it. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today.

We just launched a brand new tour. Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney are hitting the road and coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. Putting a new twist on these live events, you shape the conversation each night. At each stop on the tour, you get to select the topics that matter most to you, whether it's budgeting, relationship dynamics, achieving your financial goals, whatever it is, your voice is going to drive that night. First one will be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21st, Durham, April 23rd, Atlanta, April 25th, Phoenix, May 5th, Fort Worth, May 7th, Kansas City, May 9th. So you can join me and Dr. Deloney live in person for a night. You're going laugh you're going to learn give you the information to change your life ramsey solutions.com slash tour and get your tickets now grant is in

minneapolis hi grant welcome to the ramsey show thanks dave how are you better than i deserve what's up um so i'm wondering if i'm saving too much for my retirement no um so basically i guess um the situation that i'm in is that uh if i max out my roth ira for the year i'm saving 28 of my pre-tax income okay do you have a home mortgage uh i do not yet no and i probably won't for the next couple of years. Okay. Are you saving for a home? The way that I set up my savings is that if I have enough at the end of the year to max out my Roth IRA, then I will, and that means that I'm probably not buying a home until the next year, and I've been able to do that for the past two years.

Okay. Well, I want you to have a game plan to get a home if you're saving for retirement. Now, once you have a home, if you take a mortgage, we would back down to 15% of your income going into retirement and pay the balance on the home. Let's get the home paid off. Okay. And we might use that formula to get you in a home faster. Okay. What's your income? $103,000. Okay.

I mean, you're not doing anything wrong. You just need to take into consideration with the arithmetic when you're going to get a house, right? Yeah. I'd say house maybe next four years. Okay. How old are you? 25. Okay.

All right. That might change if you were to meet someone and get married during that time. It might speed that whole process up there. So I don't know. Could. You're not killing me here. As long as you're going to get a home, and that's in your future in a reasonable period of time and you're saving like a maniac. There's nothing wrong here.

I mean, you're doing everything great. Should I be deferring some of those, um, uh, retirement contributions to a taxable account or something? Keep it a little bit more liquid where I don't have to, um, pay penalties taking it out. I don't want you to pay any penalties. If your plan is to take it out and pay a penalty, then you've got a bad plan. Yeah. No, that's not the plan. I'm just wondering if I should

kind of preemptively put it in a taxable account. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about, Grant, because this money in the Roth, it's stuck there until you're 59 and a half. There is a part of me, you are so young that because you're saving such a high percentage if you back that down to 15 and put some of that money in you know a high yield or a vanguard or

something so that you could get to it if you decide to move cities or change jobs or have the ability to use that income uh just for flexibility purposes and then you know years on the road if that builds up you know stick it in an investment yeah i like that i like that plan either way you're still saving the same percentage but some of it's just not in retirement trapped then we could use that for a down payment so i think you could throw it in an s&p pretty simple and you'd be safe three or four years doing that and uh you know key and back down to about a 15 percent uh contribution rate i think i like that better just so young and there's just still so much house wise life wise

that that's there to have that cash good suggestion jim's in st louis hey jim how are you hi fine thanks dave it's great to speak to you uh thanks for the financial peace university two quick questions first of all did you know the late Larry Burkett? He was a blessing to me, as you are a blessing to me. Thank you. Yes, we became friends long before he passed. I got the blessing of being on his show because he was a great icon in this space. Yeah, thanks so much for blessing me.

Second, so I like my church. It's a good church. And there's a building expansion. They've asked the senior members to co-sign on a loan for the expansion. And I listened to you, and kind of a flag went up. What do you think about that? Well, I'm kind of weird. I think churches ought to follow what the Bible says.

And 1718 Proverbs says, one lacking in sense cosigns for another. It's a 2.3 million. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop. It ends right there. The Bible says one lacking in sense cosigns for another that includes a church especially a church ought to be following the bible no way i'm doing this okay all righty no way thanks it's bad

it's a bad idea you're going to end up in a mess you're going to end up all twisted up in barrel of fish hooks with jesus on top yeah well that's why i called you because i'm i lead more with the heart than the head sometime and i need i need a check sometimes here's the thing christians i mean i have as a christian i have done some really stupid things with good intention. Okay? And, you know, because we're Christians and we have a good heart doesn't mean that it's not stupid. You know, I mean, I have done some stupid things, and I'm a Christian. And so it doesn't keep you from doing stupid things the only thing that keeps you that from doing that is wisdom and the wisdom of scripture is

very clear there's 2500 bible verses on money and possessions so we have a lot of we people of the book have a lot of direction from our father on how to properly live with money. And there's zero mentions of debt that are positive, and there's only one mention of cosigning, and it's one lacking in sense cosigns for another. You're not lacking in sense, Jim, so don't cosign. If you do, you're lacking in sense that's what that says god said it i didn't say it that's from god and we say that we're you know family

friends but then you add a church on top with people that you do they like that you don't even have you know i mean they asked all the senior congregation now that's you know it is not a sin it's not a salvation issue, right? So, like, we do make that clear. Right, right. But stupid. But, yeah, but it's just not wise. Lacking in sense.

Lacking in sense. Yeah. The borrower's slave to the lender. When the children of Israel were about to cross the Jordan after 40 years in the wilderness, God gave them a whole list of things. If you do this, you'll be blessed. If you do this, you'll be cursed. If you borrow, you'll be blessed if you do this you'll be cursed if you borrow you'll be cursed

it's all I mean there's scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture and we people of the book just go well my banker said we should do it this who gives a crap what your banker says you're supposed to be people of the book and I mean

my bankers on our church board i don't care doesn't change the book and so you know i and well just for some encouragement out there our church is doing this whole project for um that that deals with like foster care single moms mental health like it's It's this entire 10-year project. And they waited until they had the money to do it. Millions of dollars. And they raised it, right? Yeah. So I'm like, and it may look at different scales

depending on where you are in the country, but it can be done. If we don't build this church, someone's not going to meet Jesus. Like, you're the only place they can meet Jesus? That's a little arrogant. So, you know, it's like in Nashville, we need another church. There's more Baptists here than people. You know, so yeah, I don't mind you building another church,

but oh my gosh, this thing of, you know, we get all caught up in our little world, and then we justify it using the rules of the Rotary Club and the Chamber of Commerce to operate the house of worship rather than the rules and the guidance from scripture. If you're going to like be doing a Bible thing, you ought to like do a Bible thing. There's a thing. Thing. Please don't sign that.

The contemporary English version says if you co-sign for someone else, you're stupid. That's the CEV version. This is The Ramsey Show. Heading into the fall, it's time to get your money in the right place. You can join George Camel and the EveryDollar team for a free live training Wednesday, October 16th at 1 Eastern, 12 Central to get clarity with your money. This is an EveryDollar webinar. Register for free at EveryDollar.com slash webinar or click the link in the description if you're listening on youtube or podcast over a hundred thousand people have registered for this free live training in the past and now it's your turn number one way to eliminate debt is a budget number one way to

build wealth is to budget number one way to get on the same page and quit arguing with your spouse about money is to budget number one way to eliminate stress in your financial life is to budget. Everydollar.com slash webinar with George Camel. Free training Wednesday, October 16th at noon central. These things have been very popular. Rachel, you've done several of these. Yep, done a couple of them. They're great. Well, and it's just helpful to kind of talk through some of the mistakes people make with budgeting,

talk through how to make it successful, and then even walking through how to use every dollar for your benefit because we built this budgeting tool to help you budget effectively. So it is. It's great. So make sure to check it out. George is fun. He's a good one. George is quick. Yep, for sure. Chase is in Phoenix. Hi, Chase. How are you? Good, sir. How are y you all? Better than we deserve. What's up? Well, hey, I'm making the most I've ever made in my life, and it's more than the average for my age. What do you make?

I make $155. Cool. How old are you? I'm 25.5,000. Cool. How old are you? I'm 25. Good for you. I have a wife and two kids, and I don't know what to do. I'm usually home every day by noon. I used to work 12, 16-hour days, and now I have this whole half day,

and it's great being a family man, but i'm trying to come up with an idea where i could build better wealth generational wealth i'm not sure what to ask here i just found out about y'all that's okay it's cool appreciate you calling man so you're working half days making 155 grand yes sir doing what i'm a city? I'm a city inspector. You're a city inspector? Yes, sir. Like for codes or building inspector? Yes, building and welding.

Okay. That's great. Chase, do you and your wife, do you guys have goals around your money about what you guys want to do for your kids, for you all, paying off your house? Do you have any debt? Like, do you guys have purpose for what your money's doing? Well, right now, no. We just got into the position to be able to save money.

But eventually the goal is, of course, to have a paid-off home, college fund for the children, emergency funds. I'm wondering if this is like a second job kind of thing or a correct investment kind of thing. Probably both. I don't know that it's a second job. Do you guys have debt, Chase? Consumer debt? Yes, we do.

How much do you have? A total on the car is $22,000, and in credit card debt, it's about $1,000. Okay. Do you guys have any money saved? About $500. Okay. Yeah, so I think, I mean, you've just come into this, and you're young, you're trying to figure out, okay, you know, what do we do with this? So I think the biggest thing is just having some of these goals to put this income, this great income to use. And the fact that you don't have to work as many hours to make a great income, then yeah, considering where you guys are with the car and your debt, I would be taking on a second job.

And it's probably not going to be for long because I think the way you guys can look at your lifestyle and budget and be intentional, you can get this paid off really quickly. Okay. So goal one would be $1,000. We call that a baby step. Save. You only got $500. So this month I want you to get the other $500 in there,

and I want you to pay off the $1,000 credit card and cut it up. Okay. Then we want to pay off the car as fast as we can. So goal two, baby step two is to become debt free everything but the house. Then when you don't have any payments but the house, now we got even more room in the budget. Agreed? Agreed. Then we build an emergency fund of three to six

months of expenses. Then we start investing 15% of our income into retirement and start investing something for kids' college. That's baby step four and five. Six is start paying extra on the house and get it paid off. That's baby step six. Baby step seven is to become very wealthy and outrageously generous, and that's where you're on your way to.

You're going to be a millionaire if you'll follow those steps. I'm going to send you the book, The Total Money Makeover, that shows you exactly how to do that. Now, having said that, you have a whole half day every day where you can do something for your short-term income to help accelerate those baby steps. And or you can come up with a side hustle that becomes a wonderful small business,

and someday you quit the city inspector job because you're making $300,000 at your new small business that you started in the afternoons. Okay. So, I mean, let's do something with that that ends up taking me career-wise and income-wise where I want to go long-term. Okay. And I love a small business idea for you.

I'll give you an example. A lot of firefighters work 72 on, 72 off, right? And a lot of them start contracting businesses, building decks or painting houses or doing whatever, uh, in their 72 off. And I often, in the years on the air here, I've gotten calls from firefighters where they end up making more on their side gig than they do fighting fires and they quit and they go run a construction business or whatever it is that they're doing and um so that could be you in the future i i mean what what who's to say that it

ends at 155 000 it doesn't that could be just the beginning for you i hope so and certainly no sin in uh trying to be more productive and make more money and help more people. And anything you can do to do that. I mean, if you want to take a traditional part-time job in the afternoon, that's fine. But I would encourage you to think about, okay, what could I grow? What could I build? What could I move towards that makes me $250 a year or $350 a year? I don't care what you make.

I hope you make a lot. I hope you make a lot. I hope you help a lot of people. Pretty cool, man. Well done. Hold on. We're going to send you a copy of the total money makeover and get you moving in that direction. Jacob is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Jacob.

How are you? Not bad. How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Okay. than I deserve how can we help okay so I am looking at some of the numbers I brand for my budget monthly and some of my debt total so I've got about 19,000 in debt total between a car that's got 9,000 and then two different credit

cards one with about 4,600 and one was about 5,500 I'm roughly profiting about $800 a month, and I'm trying to get these debts paid down as quick as possible while also paying for college out of pocket because I don't qualify for financial aid, and I'm trying not to go into more debt. Good for you. I'm just kind of struggling figuring that out. Good for you. When do you graduate, Jacob? 26. What are you studying? Criminology. What?

Criminal justice. Criminology. Okay, yeah, okay, cool. Good for you. What are you going to do? I would like to work for a federal agency, but I'm just not too sure yet how that's going to work out. Okay, cool.

Good for you. All right. Job one is for you to graduate college with no debt if you accomplish that that you know touchdown way to go then job two is to begin to work through the debts okay yeah so this 800 that you have extra yeah making sure that you have a good emergency fund in place again to make sure that tuition's being paid but anything above and beyond that i would yeah throw and try to get this go four thousand dollar credit card paid off you know you can have small goals but they don't

have to be as aggressive uh in the debt snowball especially because you're still attending college and you have that you know that large transaction every semester you got to pay pay for I'd begin to get rid of that smallest card cut them both up quit using them obviously can't get out of a hole while you're digging out the bottom but you know cut them up let's get that done and um start working on that smallest one but mostly be ready for next semester and the next semester and the next semester. I want you to get out there and pay cash for it all the way out. That's the most important part of this story. Way to go, man. You're doing great. You're doing a lot better than it feels like you're doing. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 145, 16 and 17. You open your hand, you satisfy the desire of every living thing.

The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in his works. J.K. Rowling says, if you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals. Melody is with us in Seattle. Hi, Melody. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

So I just have a question about how to talk to my husband about credit cards because I've been listening to this show since June and I'm convinced I'm ready to cut up our cards but he's he's not convinced yet so I'm just wondering how I can talk to him about this without being too pushy yeah what's his main what's his main pushback when you mention it? He likes the rewards. That's his main thing. Yeah. And I'll let their level the credit score, but he's mostly into the rewards.

For sure. And why do you want to live without them? I can kind of tell the difference when I, when I purchase things with the credit cards versus my debit card. Like, you know, when I, when I buy something with a debit card, I like have a mental thought, like, this is coming directly from our bank account. And I can feel the difference in how much I buy, I think, because of that. For sure. Do you guys have, do you guys have a lot of debt? Do you have credit card debt or do you pay it off every month? No, he's very detail-oriented. He pays off credit cards consistently every month. And we're not in any debt. Yeah. So for me, this comes down then to a values conversation. And I would be curious, Melody, for you, is it, you know, is there more in it for you than just, oh, yeah, I feel different

when I spend with a debit card versus a credit card? Or is there an idea of autonomy, not being more in control, because you're spending your money, right? It's it's getting to that deeper why for you. And that's what I would, that's what I would lead with. And, and what makes you uncomfortable about it, what you don't like about it. And just having that conversation. Because I mean, yeah, I think that the truth is, is sure people pay it off every month. You know, that, that, that is a, that's a reality. But I think when you actually taste this world of, oh gosh, I don't owe anyone anything. And I actually use my money in the present and I'm not waiting for a bill at the end of the month. Right. Like it's just, there, there's a shift there. There's a piece there that I have in me that is so much greater than trying to chase after these rewards

that end up not really being a ton, to be honest. And so that's the leading conversation I would have. I would also just pan back. I didn't get rid of my credit cards because I hated credit cards. I got rid of my credit cards because I hate debt. And so I would pan back and say, let's have a discussion, not about credit cards, but about debt. Right.

We don't, you don't, we don't go into debt. Okay. If we don't go into debt, um, why do we need a credit score? Is there a credit score has one purpose and there's only one way to maintain it and that is to run debt the algorithm that develops a credit score fair isaac put this together as an organization and the credit score is a hundred percent of the algorithm has to do with your interfacing with debt if you do not borrow money your credit score will disappear and if you're not going to borrow money that's not a big deal

that's you know that's panning back from the credit card and then that kind of does then i then i don't need a credit card to maintain my credit score because my credit score is not an indication that you're doing good with money it's an indication you've been playing kissy face with the bank a lot and um then you know the points are laughable because one there's you know discover card gives one percent back well let's run the numbers on that if i run a hundred thousand dollars through my discover card i get a thousand dollars on what planet is that a method to become wealthy that that that math is absurd it's like saying i'm going to go to chucky cheese and run up all the tickets i can

run up to buy those you know 10 cent five cent things and it's cost me 86 dollars to get that 10 cent thing with those tickets at chucky cheese that's what your points are it's exactly how it works and so and and you know i we've done detailed studies of millionaires we've never met one that said you know i became a millionaire because of my points right so it's trading dollars for pennies and somehow feeling like I collected something, like I beat them at their game. And so both of his objections are inaccurate when you get into the reality of them. And I would be curious, Melody, too, just to do an experiment and just say,

hey, for five months, can we just use a debit card? And at the end, let's talk through what that is. Because there is a truth that. And at the end, like, let's talk through what that is. Because there is a truth that when you live in debt, and even if you pay off and pay it every single month, and it doesn't feel like a big deal, the moment you step out of that cycle, something does psychologically change. Yeah, we had friends and, you know, they had car loans and they could, they made great monies they easily could afford it it wasn't you know this like crazy stretch uh but then they decided yeah the next car we'll just pay in cash

and we talked and they ended up we talked at dinner and and he was like that's amazing like i didn't realize what big of a deal it was to just own my car and i don't i don't know why we didn't do this in the first place so like again even if you can quote unquote afford the bill at the end of the month yeah Rachel's right when you get out of that if you cut up your credit cards and do away with them as a test and go six months if you don't like it they'll give them back to you yeah you can get more credit cards you'll get 17 during that six months right I mean it's like in the mail unsolicited. And so now it's not like they're going to go away or something. So, but I think it's a bigger question is my point than just credit card. I think the bigger question is what is our goal here? And, um, my, my take on it,

and it's made a lot of people wealthy following that take is that your number one wealth building tool is your income don't give your income to someone in the form of debt payments and expect to become wealthy and you all aren't using debt and yet he's tinkering around and playing footsie with it as if he's somehow beating them at their game and it just doesn't work out in the end so uh and mit has done studies others have done studies that when you spend cash you spend 12 to 15 percent less than when you spend plastic and i'm waiting for the research to come out i guess we're going to have to go do it uh on the swiping your phone or when you say cash you mean debit card no i mean cash debit card is a little less than a credit card not a lot but it's a little less you spend a little less but it's not 12 to 15 if you're i'm talking about actual benjamins yeah because when you put when you

lay uncle benjamin franklin on the table you have an ouchy moment. It's like, oh, crap. That's like money and stuff. You pay cash for your groceries, you'll get so pissed off about inflation you can't see. I mean, really. If you people had to pay your taxes in cash on Friday, there would be a revolution. Because you would see how much money you're giving the government. It would freak you out. If you had to walk to the tax collector, like in biblical days, you would hate Matthew.

Oh, my gosh. You know? I mean, really, if you paid it out, that's the power of the emotion of this, and it's called friction in the marketing world. And so if you're on Amazon, you just hit click, click, click, click, click, click, and crap starts landing on your front porch. is something to say though that when it's coming out of your accounts right then yeah you feel you do feel that you do feel it more you do feel i'll just pay it later there's more friction but i mean if you're just swiping that apple pay phone

man these people just walk they walk past it and they walk past and hit it it's gone man i'm out of here like they don't even know they bought something. It didn't even hit their memory bank. Oh my gosh. Wow. It's convenient. I'm such a boomer. Wow. Oh well. I'm good with that though. I don't like my other options. You don't use Apple Pay. You're right. I don't.

I promise you I don't. I'm old school. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.