The Ramsey Show - App - Why You Should Avoid the “Gold Bros” (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

George Kamel answers your questions and discusses: "Does everyone need life insurance?" What to do after selling a business, Why you should stay away from the "gold bros", Selling a house to by a RV, Going back to school while paying off a mountain of debt Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Join a Personality-led FPU class. Click here! Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance at $3,000! https://bit.ly/TRSgvwy Shop our bestsellers during the $10 Sale! https://bit.ly/TRS10Sale Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

МУЗЫКАЛЬНАЯ ЗАСТАВКА Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by no one this hour. I'm solo, holding down the fort while our team is across America, changing lives, impacting people. And the number to call if you want to join me is 888-825-5225. I just filmed some real juicy behind-the-scenes Instagram of the Ramsey Show, what we're seeing on the desk, what's going on in the booth. So if you want to go check that out, it's at GeorgeCamelWithAK on Instagram in the stories for the next, I don't know, 24 hours, however long the algorithms let it stay alive.

So go check that out if you want some behind-the-scenes fun. All right, let's get to the phones. Samantha kicks us off in Spartanburg, North Carolina. Samantha, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, George. Thanks for taking my call. Happy to. What's going on? I just had a question. Do I really need life insurance, or can I skip buying it? Are you single? No, I'm married.

Okay, so what happens if Samantha, God forbid, something happens to her? My husband will be fine. Why is that? He wouldn't need to grieve? He wouldn't need to take any time off work? Maybe to grieve i'm sure i mean but but there's you know but we're kind of in a position you know we own our home and we have no debt um so finances aren't really a problem and the only thing that i joke with them and say i feel bad i feel like i need it because if i die you know then wouldn't

you love to be a millionaire oh if you have the life insurance in place. But other than that, I mean, there's no real reason, I don't think, financially for me to have it. Well, the time that we would say, hey, you don't need to get term life is if you are self-insured, which means if something happened, you had enough with your assets, with retirement, in the bank, that you wouldn't skip a beat covering the bills and replacing all of the value that samantha added to this family and that's just that's not just income right that's oh my gosh i gotta hire some help around the house like i can't do this on my own and so there's a lot of other people even stay-at-home moms we recommend having 25

uh 250 000 to 400 000 worth of policy on a term life to cover the Mary Poppins-esque solution you would need to cover all the things that stay-at-home moms do, right? And so are you currently working full-time outside of the home? Not full-time, just part-time. No benefits. My husband carries all the benefits that we need. Okay. Do you add any value to the home? Well, God, yeah.

It was a trick question. Yes. And so you've got to think about that aspect too, of all the things that you do around the house that he now has to figure out while grieving your loss. And so that's the reason why we recommend having it. And honestly, it is so cheap that I think you'll just sleep better at night knowing there's a big old pad of cash to cover us while we grieve. Okay. So how old are you? That's great advice. At 34. Okay. You are exactly my age. And I'll tell you right now, you could get

a million dollar policy and it would be like the cost of a pizza. Wow. It is not. I mean, a very nice pizza at that. So what's your current income? Minus $60,000. Okay. So if you got a policy that's 10 to 12 times your income for the next 15 or 20 years,

you're looking at a $600,000 policy for 15 or 20 years. Yeah, okay. So you can jump on ramseysolutions.com and get a term life insurance quote from our friends at Zander Insurance. It's super easy.

It will take you legitimately one minute. You'll say, hey, here's how healthy I am. Here's my age. Here's what I'm looking at. And we'll spit out a bunch of quotes

from a bunch of different companies and you can get it in place very quickly. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, George. Absolutely. Thanks for the call. Great question. And for those of you that are going, hey, I'm not in Samantha's situation, or I don't know that I need it, or no one relies on my income. The moment someone does, or even if you have a bunch of debt and, you know, even think

about things like funeral costs and putting that burden on someone to go, oh my gosh, I'm grieving the loss of this person I loved on top of having to shell out thousands and thousands of dollars. It's a great thing to have in place. And term life is one of the most affordable types of insurance that is out there. And I recommend everybody get it. You want 10 to 12 times your income and you want a term of about 15 or 20 years. Because think about it, if you follow the Ramsey plan, 15 or 20 years from now, you're out of debt with a paid-for house, and you've been investing into retirement for close to 15 years. So you become what we call self-insured to where you don't need that money because you've

got a pile of it yourself. So great question. And always connect with our friends at Zander Insurance. That's who I use for all of my insurance needs. Great folks over there with some great rates because they shop independently. All right, let's move to Boise. Michaela joins us there. What's going on, Michaela? Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Me and my husband are getting ready to sell our business, and I guess I'm just wondering if I should put the profit towards debt or if I should save it for a down payment for a house.

Ah, exciting. So what kind of business is this? It's a hoof trimming business for dairy cattle. Wow. So specific. I love it. Yeah. What are you selling the business for?

Do you have a buyer? Yes, we do. Okay. So what will be the net profit for you guys so the profit will be 38 000 awesome okay and you said you've got some debt but you also want to buy a house how much debt do you have um we have about 30 000 in debt okay and how much money do you have in the bank um i bank? I probably close to 10,000. Cool. So this is a pretty simple scenario. Now, number one, if you're following the baby steps, the track would be pay off all consumer debt, then fully funded emergency fund, then down payment for a house. And so if you follow that

plan, you're making 38 from the sale, The debt's 30. That leaves you with eight. You already have 10 in the bank. Is 18,000 a fully funded emergency fund for you guys? Three to six months of expenses? About, yeah. Perfect. So right after this business is sold, you could be working on that down payment. But I would not use that money as a down payment while you carry $30,000 worth of debt.

Okay. It's going to slow you down in the long run. And I know you so badly want this house, don't you? Yes. You are ready. And you're going to get there in no time when you don't have any payments weighing you down. And when you do get that house, you're going to have one payment to make, and that is the mortgage. Yeah. And that is what I call freedom. So how much longer would it take to save up the down payment? If all of our debts are paid off, not very long. Booyah. What's your household income? Well, with the trimming business, it was $90,000, but we just started a new business, so it's going to be close to $120,000. Oh my gosh, I love it. Okay, and what's the down payment goal you guys have? I would say anywhere from $15,000 to $20,000.

Oh, that's it? I don't know. Yeah. Well, I would set a goal, 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. That's the only type I'd ever recommend where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. That will help you dictate how much down payment you need. It may be $30,000. It may be $50,000. But making $120,000 with no payments, you're going to be there within, I would say, I'm going to give it less than a year. If you follow these steps, you pay off the debt, you have the emergency funds,

start saving up that down payment. In less than a year, you're going to have that down payment and you're going to step into this house with such peace and such freedom. Thanks for the call. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's

helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, co-hosting with no one today, hosting solo. But you can catch me co-hosting on Smart Money Happy Hour and hosting my own brand new YouTube

channel. You can go check that out. Just search George Camel with a K over on YouTube. And I recently published a video called Warning, Avoid the Modern Day Gold Rush. And it's because anytime we get spooked in America about the economy and what the government's going to do and is the dollar going to hold its value, people get spooked and the fear mongers come out and they tell you to run and buy gold. So here's a headline from CNBC. Americans think gold beats stocks as a long-term investment. Here's some key points. The share of Americans who think gold is the best long-term investment almost doubled in 2023 to 26%, according to Gallup. The share who prefer stocks declined to 18%. However, stocks are the

better wealth generator over long time horizons, according to financial advisors, and gold is typically viewed as a safe haven during times of fear. And here's a quote from Charlie Fitzgerald, who's a certified financial planner. He said, as a long-term investment, gold is a very poor solution. It's that simple. It's more like speculation. Stocks generally serve as the long-term growth engine of an investment portfolio, financial advisor said. The S&P 500 index of stocks had a 10.43% average annual total return between 1970 and 2022, while gold had a 7.7% return over the same period. So here's the deal. A lot of people are turning to this stuff because they're scared. And I posted

this video and I didn't know that there was a such thing as gold bros, like there are the crypto bros, but they came out in full force in the comment section on this video going like, oh, we never said it was an investment. It's a hedge against inflation. And what if the, and the, I don't trust the government. And I just smile and nod and sleep well at night while they freak out with,

I guess a pile of gold in their bed. I don't know what they're doing with this stuff. And here's the deal. We've joked about it on the show, but if it all went down, right? Because what they're assuming is the stock market tanks. Let's say every company in America went bankrupt and the stock market went to zero and all of our retirement accounts were zero. That is an apocalyptic situation. At that point, when you have a pile of gold, I don't care. I'm looking for food and fuel and shelter, and maybe ammo, depending on what's going on. I don't know if the zombies come out at that point,

who knows? But that's really the case. So people that are hanging on to gold are saying it's a hedge against inflation, but long-term we know that the S&P 500, the general stock market, is a way better investment. And therefore, what are you holding gold for? It's a terrible savings account, because you still got to go turn it into money. And the gold you bought probably won't sell for what you paid for it unless we're in a terrible economic time, but not at the point of collapse. So I just don't buy this argument. I don't own any gold. I don't even own a gold chain. Okay. I don't think I could rock it if I wanted to. So if I'm in your shoes, I wouldn't be buying gold. And the people who are telling you to run and buy it,

they have ulterior motives. And they're usually like old guys yelling at you on TV that you got to go buy gold right now and you can get it from their website or something. So I would avoid it at all costs. And you can go check out that YouTube video, all eight minutes and 22 seconds, and it's full glory and humor over on my YouTube channel.

All right, let's take a call from Allison in Richmond, Virginia. Allison, welcome to the show. Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? Well, I have a question. I turned 60, and I was thinking about selling my home and buying an RV. Why is that?

So I could, I don't know, travel and cut down on expenses. Are there other people involved here? Are you single, married? Single. Okay. So you want to get a big old RV for Allison to traverse the country? Yes.

But not, no, not a big one. Like just, you know, the little... Like a little camper situation? Yeah, yeah. Well, could you test this out and maybe go rent an RV for a week or two before you go sell the house and make this huge life change? Well, the only problem is the one that I want, you can't really test it out. There's none available for rent, that style?

No, not a lot. Maybe I'll have to research it some more, but I haven't really seen them. I would do the homework there. Now, can you pay for this RV in cash? No, that's why I'm selling the house. This is what worries me. The house is going to maintain and appreciate in value. That RV is going to go down in value. And that worries me as a retirement plan. So do you have any other

investments? Well, I have a retirement that I receive monthly. How much is that? And it's about $2,000. Is that Social Security? Is that a pension? Oh, pension, pension. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So what's your game plan long-term in order to retire and have money? That was kind of like the RV thing, like I was going to...

Well, you got to eat, you need gas, you got to have some experiences. So are you currently working or are you already retired? Semi. I do some gig stuff and I work seasonal jobs. I would put pause on this until we have more information and we have a better financial plan. Do you have a financial advisor that you're working with currently? No, no. I just want to make sure that 80-year-old Allison is happy with the decisions that 60-year-old Allison made. Okay. You know what I mean? I don't want you to do this

impulsively. You sell the house. Now you lose that appreciating asset. The RV is going down in value. We don't really have anything invested except for this $2,000 pension that's coming in. And all of a homework, and I would make sure, because people travel all the time, and they don't go buy RVs to do it. So there's a lot of ways to travel the world without having to sell your house to do it. So I just want to make sure you have a place to land, because I can't imagine you're going to travel in an RV for the next 20 years. I never thought of that part. Yeah.

That's all. I'm just thinking if I'm in Allison's shoes, I'm thinking long-term. I'm thinking, man, I really want to retire with dignity. I want to have money. I don't want to be having to work. I want to get to work. And that's a different mindset and it's a different financial situation. So I think you're on the path. I'm not saying this doesn't happen. I just want to push pause, do a whole lot of homework. You can go meet with one of our, a SmartVestor Pro, which are financial advisors that we trust to help you the Ramsey way when it comes to investing. So you can get connected with a SmartVestor Pro at ramseysolutions.com and click on Trusted Pros, and I'd also do some homework on the RV. And I would rent one before I bought one. Because you may get into that thing and say, I hate driving

around this boat and having to sleep in a Walmart parking lot. Or you might go, oh my gosh, this is everything I hoped and dreamed for. And here's how much it cost me for two weeks. So here's how much it's going to cost me for six months. And that's what I'm hoping for you. Well, hey, folks, if you've never experienced Smart Conference before, let me tell you, you're missing out on this thing. This is Ramsey's biggest event of the year. And the event is packed with inspiration, hey, folks, if you've never experienced Smart Conference before, let me tell you, you're missing out on this thing. This is Ramsey's biggest event of the year, and the event is packed with inspiration, motivation, and information. We're talking how to get control of your money, improving your mental health, strengthening your relationships, and building a successful career. So whether you're on Baby Step 2 or Baby Step 7 with a

paid-for house, you're going to leave this event fired up and smarter. So get ready, because our next Smart Conference is happening in Chicago this fall with all of our Ramsey personalities, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Dr. John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman, and myself at Smart Conference Weekend, September 15th and 16th. And if you're lucky, you might get to witness a live recording of the Smart Money Happy Hour podcast with Rachel Cruz and I, and you get to be a part of that in the live studio audience. And right now, our early bird general admission ticket price is just 79 bucks for an entire weekend. That's insane. We've got limited VIP and platinum tickets, so do not wait to get yours. The VIP ticket includes a meet and greet with Rachel, John, Jade, Ken, and me. One of my favorite parts of these events is getting to meet all of you

during the breaks, hearing your stories, taking pictures, celebrating your success. It's always a highlight for me. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash events to get your tickets today. And I will see you at Smart Conference in Chicago, September 15th and 16th. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel flying solo today. And I'm not alone. We have a wonderful crowd in the lobby, and I assume they are here for our newest friends on the debt-free stage,

Micah and Gia. How are you guys? Great, George. How are you? Doing wonderful. Where are you guys from? North Platte, Nebraska. In the middle of nowhere, there's a little town that we call home.

That's wonderful. Thanks for making the trip all the way to do your debt-free scream. Absolutely. Absolutely. How much debt did you guys pay off? We paid about $72,000 to $73,000. All right. And how long did that take?

Roughly about 24-ish months. All right. And what was your range of income? When we got married, it was probably about, so I was working COVID ward. So probably anywhere between 70 to 95. Awesome. Okay. What kind of debt was this 72?

It was a mortgage and a house. Oh my gosh. Yep. You paid off your house? Yep. Heck yeah. You guys are too young for that. No, we're not. No, we're not. Can I ask you how old you are because america's wondering i'm 31 my wonderful wife is 26 i thought way younger

you guys are incredible okay so we got to talk about this how did you come to going like we're gonna pay this house off at 26 i'm 31 most people are I'm going to hang on to a mortgage as long as possible. We're going to take out the HELOC to do the renovations and get the investment prop. And you guys just said, we want to be done. Yeah. What happened? It's really my wife's fault.

She got me on board, which has actually been a huge blessing to take that journey and have her be encouraging along the way. How long have you guys been married? Just about two and a half years. Yep. So you came back from the honeymoon and- Nailed it.

You were like, we're getting out of debt. Yep. Mm-hmm. How do you even get a spouse on board post-honeymoon? Like, were you already on board with the Ramsey stuff? Were you guys already debt-free? Yeah. So basically, long story short, what happened was when i was 15 uh my dad ended up passing

away it's because you didn't have enough money to buy the meds he needed and um so when i got married i said nope we're not doing this so i went to college debt free um i had siblings that did the ramsey plan and i saw that they always had money i I was like, this, we got to figure this out. And, uh, our, my local church at the time, um, Mike, Michelle led a class and I was like, yes. So I ended up taking the class when I was in high school. Um, I worked jobs in college. Um, the Lord was just so gracious. And, uh, so many things happen. Um, but anyway, we got married. And I remember going to him being like, I want to do this Ramsey plan. And he's like, I don't need no Dave Ramsey in my life. This is common sense. I don't need someone telling me how to do this. And I was like, Lord, how do I do this well? And he said, watch me work. And that was the start. So we got married and I am like a super nerd. I am like nerdy of the nerd.

Very much. Yeah. And I'll own it. It's okay. And I was like, Lord, like I want to pay extra on this house and I want to get it paid off. And he wasn't against it. He just was like, all right, we'll do it. And I was working COVID ward and as a nurse, I'm a registered nurse. And Lord was just like no more than $2,000 on your extra payment. And so we did that. I worked COVID ward, but something changed. My mental health went in the toilet. And my husband finally looked at me and said, I don't care what it costs.

You need out. So I went down to work in part time and I didn't get it. I was like, Lord, like, I don't get this. And during that time period, a friend of ours came and lived with us and because Micah told the Lord we'd never do it. So therefore we ended up doing it. Which, mind you, that was nine months into marriage. Nine months into marriage. We had a guy come live with us. He's like, hey, I made some mistakes. I need some help. And we were like, absolutely. Come on, man, man. So he ended up living with us for a few months. A few months later, we're still plugging away on our debt.

And then the Lord's like, hey, by the way, I'm going to put this on your heart. We ended up also bringing in a refugee family from Ukraine. So we went from a family of two to a family of six with a dog overnight. Oh my goodness. For two months. Yeah. So that went from a family of two to a family of six with a dog overnight. Oh my goodness. For two months. Yeah. So that was a whirlwind and a half. There was, there was stress that was involved. Yeah. Times we get frustrated with each other, but in the end we would never go back on what we did. And so during that time I was still working part-time. And what ended up happening was I actually ended up becoming their advocate. I ended up becoming part lawyer.

By God's grace, we were able to get them on their feet and with help of the church. But never once did we miss a payment and never once did we miss an extra payment. We made that 2,000 every time, even with me missing work, like random things happen, like he got a bonus at work or something happened. And so God was so clear and he was like, nope, you're doing this. And our grocery bill never ballooned because we had people in our church that partnered with

Salvation Army. So we were also getting food donations on a weekly basis. Oh, that's incredible. So like we said, we haven't missed anything. Nothing. Nothing ever changed. Nothing ever changed. So you guys were super faithful. Community showed up. God showed up on top of all of your hard work and anything. Nothing. Nothing ever changed. Nothing ever changed. So you guys were super faithful. Community showed up. God showed up on top of all of your hard work and diligence.

Yep. And you paid this thing off in two years. Well, and then after that, about three weeks after, we ended up doing a camp called Royal Family Kids Camp. Royal Family Kids Camp is a camp that loves kids in the foster care system who have seen the worst of the worst. We literally helped a child who literally watched their family get shot and then got shot themselves. And in this camp, what we do is we

treat them like royals for a week and we love on them. So I went as a nurse, he went as a big camper and God did so much. We actually have to pay to go to the camps that way the kids don't have to go or have to pay to go and um god allowed that to happen and so we got to do that and it was so much fun so if you guys see we're wearing shirts that say make moments matter and if i'm going to be really honest i'm going to have an honest wife moment for a second um last week when we were talking about like how we wanted to do this and what we wanted to share um my lovely husband comes to me and he says hey i think we need to wear a make moments matter shirts and i was like oh ah babe don't, I think we need to wear a Make Moments Matter shirts. And I was like,

ooh, ah, babe, don't you think we might want to wear something a little nicer or something? And he's like, but babe, that's the whole reason we did this. The whole reason we did this is because we wanted to make moments matter. We want to be able to serve servants and be available for people. Wow. And so that's why we do this. We do this because we want to make moments matter, not only for our family and future generation, but we want to be able to be available for people because never once did our giving budget change, never once did our payments stop. And this isn't any like prosperity gospel.

This is not because, oh, we did this because now Jesus will bless us. That's not how this works. Like there was a lot of times I was scratching my head being like, I don't know how we're gonna do this, but okay. Like, all right, we'll do it. And the Lord was just so, so faithful. Well, now that you guys are debt free with no payments, you can make those moments matter. You realized very early on that it was never about the money and this debt payoff goals. What could we do if we don't have any payments? What kind of life would we leave? How

many people could we help? And so you guys are such an inspiration. I'm so proud of you. What do you tell that couple that's sitting out there with the mortgage and probably a bunch of debt and they're going, ah, yeah, but we're not, Micah and Gia. That's not us.

What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is? I mean, I know we've heard it said, you stick to the budget and it's not so much your financial decision as it is your lifestyle choice. So for us, make moments matter. That's kind of become our lifestyle choice, as well as serving the servants.

But for the spouses who may not necessarily be on board right away, as someone who also wasn't on board right away, the Lord works wonderfully when someone is persistent and they're persistent in prayer with that. And when they get on board, it's all the more exciting because then I caught it and go,

okay, what else can we do to help push this out? So it's really, I mean, it's hard work, but in the end, it's worth it. I'm curious, what's the house worth? Right now, I think sitting on the market, it's like 140-ish. 130, 140, roughly. That's all yours.

All ours. It's all ours. The next step for you guys is Baby Steps Millionaires as you continue to live and give like no one else. So we've got the live and give box for you, including Dave's bestseller, Baby Steps Millionaires, the total money makeover, so you can get someone else's journey started,

and of course, one year to Financial Peace University to go through this. So proud of you guys. You ready? Yeah. Absolutely. It's the moment we've all been waiting for. It's Micah and Gia. $73,000 paid off, house and everything in 24 months, making 70 all the way up to 90. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two,

one. We're debt-free! Get free! Woo! Oh, I hope you're watching on YouTube because this is a beautiful picture of what love and freedom looks like. And did you hear that? They hit a very deep why. It was more than just about money. It was more than just about them. It was what they could do for their family,

for their community, for their kingdom. And I'm so inspired by this amazing young couple out there. And if they can do it, you can too, America. What's holding you back? Do you need a deeper why? Do you need a bigger shovel? Go do what it takes, because that kind of freedom is worth it every time. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 43, 19. See, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs up. Do you not perceive it?

I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Justin Vernon of Bon Iver, one of my favorite artists, said, You never have to change your scene when you're always comfortable with evolving. Love it. I'm inspired by our last debt freeze cream. And it reminded me of my story 10 years ago when I started here at Ramsey and I was $40,000 in debt. I was bright eyed, bushy tailed and very broke. And the system I realized was designed to keep me broke. I did everything society told me to do, what my parents told me to do. My parents were immigrants from the Middle East. They came, they adapted to the American culture very quickly and collected some consumer debt,

and I thought, I was real frustrated. I got real cynical. I was anxious. I was a little bit hopeless going like, I'm $40,000 in debt, and I did everything society told me to do, and life just hasn't worked out magically because I went to the right school and took out the student loans and I'm using my credit cards trying to build my score. And yet I don't feel like I'm winning financially. I'm not getting ahead. I'm not building my net worth. I'm just making credit card companies rich and under the guise of my 2% cash back and my Delta SkyMiles card. And so when I realized, hey, it's my fault and it's not all my fault, but it is my responsibility. What am I going to do next?

And starting here at Ramsey Solutions in 2013, $40,000 in debt following the baby steps, going through Financial Peace University. I paid off that consumer debt in two years following the debt snowball method, got my emergency fund in place. I began investing into our 401k here at Ramsey. And I realized, oh my gosh, I don't have to play this game anymore. I don't need the credit score. I don't need to hope to do the credit card churning to get the points to hope to go on the vacation one day. I can just save up and pay for my own dang stuff and not have to wait on the credit card companies to bless me with their cashback freaking rewards. Oh, and I don't have to have a mortgage for 30

or plus years. I can get a 15 year mortgage and then pay that off early because I don't have any debt and I have control of my income. That's a game changer. So that helped me realize, oh my gosh, you can buck the system entirely. And on the other side of that is financial freedom, is financial peace, is life on my terms, is margin, is options, is joy. And man, that was a game changer for me when I realized that. And that's what every single debt-free screamer up here realizes. And what you realize is it's way more than money. Paying off debt is just the secret we get you to get up on the stage.

But what you do is you change your life because you realize, oh, I can apply this in every other area. And what can I do without payments? It's not about the money. It's about what the money can do. It's just a tool. And I can now bless others. I can give outrageously.

I can retire early. I can retire with dignity. And that's what life is all about to me. It's not about just storing up a bunch of money. It's about way, way more than that. So I hope you guys get that when you hear these debt free screams, you feel it in their spirit, something changes, something visceral, something cathartic. And man, there is such freedom in bucking the system and going, oh my gosh, I can rent a car with a debit card and just pay for stuff and not have to worry about what I bought

three months ago and do pay later. I can just pay now and be done with it and move on with my life. Leaving mental space and emotional energy and financial margin to do the things I want to do, man, that's freedom. And so if you want a piece of that, that's what this show is all about. Join Financial Peace University if you want to dig into that. I'm leading a class starting June 20th virtually. You can join at fpu.com. Let's get to the phones. Leticia joins us in Washington, D.C. Leticia, what's going on? Hey, George. This is so crazy that I get to actually speak to you. It's crazy for me too. All right, let me get straight to the point. My husband and I are actually in $389,000 worth of debt. Most of it is student loans. Yeah, that's how we feel when we back and go to nursing school and we should do it while we're trying to get out of debt. Because, you know, once I get a nursing degree, my income

would increase exponentially. However, I feel like we should tackle our debt first and then, you know, maybe we could use my, when I go back, that income that I get, we can use it for baby step three, baby step 3B instead. So I'm just trying to see which is the smarter decision. And yeah, we live in D.C., so, you know, our expenses are kind of high. Well, we live in the D.C. area, so they're high. How did we go this far into student loan debt? Is this a mix of your student loans? It's both of ours.

He has a bachelor's and a master's, and I have a bachelor's in social work. He has one in business admin. I mean, he's using his degree. I am currently not using mine. But we also did go to private Adventist colleges. Oh, my goodness. How much student loans did he take? So I think his master's was about, I think it was like $90,000, I want to say. And undergrad was like $30,000 a year

for both of us. I'm just confused how this adds up to $400,000. So interest, we ignored it for a really long time so it's been building yeah so we're we're very deep deep in a hole and i don't think that we should what's your household 120 gross so we bring about uh yeah 75 a month i think but we have four kids too so two oh boy it's a party over there okay yeah how much money do you guys have in the bank uh just our thousand dollar emergency fund do you have any other kind of debt uh just a few medical bills one of our kids was our latest child was in the NICU for a while so that bill you know they charge like it's a luxury hotel so it's pretty large um okay yeah so here's what I'm thinking you guys are in a hole.

And right now your husband's like, let's just keep digging and we'll get to China eventually if we keep digging. I thought that as a kid. Doesn't work like that. And so I don't want you to dig this hole any further because the fallacy is, well, we'll go to nursing school. We'll add another $150,000, but then my income will go up by another $50,000. Well, we were thinking about going the associate's route where we could pay out of pocket. It's only about $5,000 a semester,

and I would get my associate's because I can still sit for the NCLEX that way to actually become a registered nurse. But if I go and get an associate's, that would take out all the money that we're using for that. And you're able to go to nursing school, take care of four kids, and still keep your full-time job? I don't think so, but... So that's what worries me, is you lower your income while this debt is accumulating interest

to hope that years down the line we increase this income. So I think what we need to do is find other ways to increase income right now until we clean this mess up. Then once we clean it up, we can look at cash flowing school. But we have cash flowed enough school at this point. I mean, we've taken out enough debt. We tried the school route. Let's try the work our tails off route. And so we need to get this income up because $389,000 making $120,000, that scares me. Making $200,000 trying to pay 390 okay now we got we're cooking now

we can put a hundred at the debt be done with this thing in under four years and if you've heard our friend Jade Warshaw story fellow Ramsey personality they paid

off what four hundred sixty five thousand dollars worth of debt in seven and a half years and so your story may look more similar to theirs where it doesn't take two

years it may take four or five years but they also got their income up like crazy they were doing 17 side hustles so just work because i was thinking maybe if we can lower our our our expenses maybe moving to a cheaper cost yes area i mean that's a that's a huge key can you guys do that with your jobs well we were thinking about we look we were thinking about relocating to Georgia where our family, where we have some family there. And my husband's job is remote. So it goes with him wherever he goes, as long as he doesn't leave the United States. I love it. If you guys are willing to uproot your life to then shave off 20, 30 grand a year, that will change everything.

And so if you're willing to do that, I would do it. Yeah, I don't think he's willing. Because you guys are going to run out of steam at this rate in D.C. We are already losing steam. He's completely out of hope, so I hear you. Well, that's going to be a step in giving you guys hope. And I also want to gift you one year of Financial Peace University. I want you and your husband to go through it because you guys need some pep in your step. Yes, you need some income. Yes, but you also need to see the light at the end of this tunnel. So hang on the line. Austin will pick up and we'll gift

you one year of Financial Peace University as well as one year of EveryDollarPlus. There's a paycheck planning tool in there that I want you to use, a financial goals tool to show you when you're going to become debt-free, how to get there faster, what you could do with an extra $1,000, $2,000 a month in income. And I hope that gives you the hope and motivation that you need to stay the course. And I can't wait for you guys to come into your debt-free screen and tell us how it all went sooner rather than later. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously.