The Ramsey Show - App - You Are a Better Investment Than Stocks When You're in School! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

Debt, Savings, Investing, Career Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/31ricKt  Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/2QEyonc Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/2JgzaQR

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Eric starts off this hour in Erie, Pennsylvania. Hi, Eric. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So, I'm 19 years old. I'm a full-time college student, and I've just started listening to your show. I just got my car paid off, so I have zero debt, and I got into college with a lot of scholarships, and I'm also very, very fortunate to have a college fund, so I will be graduating with no debt. I've been working hard throughout high school and college since I was 15, and I have about $24,000 saved up between my savings and investments. And my question is, should I start contributing to my Roth IRA, or should I wait until I'm out of college and I've started my career?

Man, you're a rock star. Well done. Yeah, you're on it. Very well done. Congratulations. I'm proud of you, man. Very well done. Here's the thing.

You have plenty of time after graduation to begin your retirement investing. So if you graduate from school, get your first gig, your 401K Roth there or your Roth IRAs, and start from there on, and you keep doing that from 22 until through your working lifetime, you're going to be a multi, multi, multimillionaire. Plus, you are not afraid of hard work, and you've been very intentional with your money, very wise beyond your years, and so if you don't get crazy, you're going to be a multi, multi, multimillionaire because it's the way you're wired up. You're heading in that direction already.

The best insurance that you have the best income is for you to finish your degree and finish it without debt as long as the degree is something that's applicable and there's a job market for it. What are you studying? I'm studying communication sciences and disorders, and I'm going to go for a master's degree in speech language pathology phenomenal excellent excellent so that is going to afford you an excellent income would you agree yes okay so um translation the money that you would put into a Roth, into good mutual funds, the money it would make in the next three years compared to what you are going to be worth

as a result of graduating with this degree is not even on the same chart. You are a much better investment than a Roth and mutual funds are to finish your studies. Now, I understand you've got it mapped out with scholarships and with a college fund that you're going to go through debt-free. I heard that clearly, and I heard that you have $24,000. It wouldn't make me mad, in other words, if you didn't start your Roth until after graduation and instead ended up with, I'm going to make up a number, $50,000 in an account when you graduate.

You can start investing some of that money then. You can use it for transition into your new career and move cities and all that kind of a thing. Have a fully funded emergency fund. That's like an insurance policy to ensure that Eric graduates debt-free. Yeah, and Eric, what about the master's? Are you going to be paying for that, or is your college fund going to pay for it? My college fund is going to be paying for it. That's great.

I'm actually in a five-year program, so I've already been accepted into the master's degree program, and I know exactly how much it's going to cost. Not bad. I bet you do. My scholarship also rolled over. Yeah. So I will be graduating 100% debt-free. Well, I'm proud of you, you buddy and here's the beauty of it

while your college friends might be eating ramen noodles you can upgrade okay you got some money uh but be smart and like dave said graduate have 50 000 sitting there ready for you to jump start life and be just hyper intentional moving forward then eric even if you wanted to park some of it into an investment say like a uh an index fund okay an s&p 500 fund a no load fund something like that if you want to park some of it there and begin some investing that's okay i just wouldn't put it in a retirement product like a roth or a 401k because my big goal for you is to finish this wonderful track you have put yourself on and man you've gotten some really good coaching and advice and you you know you're a very very sharp young man great job buddy excellent excellent work angel is in tampa florida hi angel how are you

hey good afternoon david chris uh thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Well, I have two questions. One, I want to start with, I have an RV that I purchased, and I'm on my baby step two, and I owe $55. It's probably worth $45. So my question is, in baby step two, do I just get away or find a way to get rid of it, even if I have to carry or maintain some kind of balance? Yes. What do you make a year?

72. Yeah, this thing's insane. What's the payment on it? Oh, it's nuts. It's 500. Yeah,000. Yeah, this thing's insane. What's the payment on it? Oh, it's nuts. It's $500,000. Yeah, forever. $500,000. Yeah, so you're going to end up with a $10,000 unsecured loan at your credit union or your bank to cover the deficit that you're in, because you've got to cover that difference in order to sell it and get the title, correct? Correct.

Or if the RV company. Or if the RV company will carry it for you, then I would let you do that as well. But, yeah, you need to get rid of it, and you're going to have to cover the difference. But it's better to be $10,000 in debt than $55,000. Absolutely. And the $500 you've been used to paying, that's going to allow you to, again, you're going to go the debt snowball route, make minimum payments on everything but the small one, and once you chop that down, you're coming on down.

And, Angel, you're going to change your kind of financial situation with that. But go talk to a credit union or your bank, because this has to be unsecured in order to release the title from the RV company. Yeah, or whoever you've got the RV loan with, if they will agree to just let you sign a note for the difference. If you've already got the loan over at your local credit union, for instance, or over at your local bank, you can get them to just allow you to sign a note for the difference, and you pay payments on that and put it into your debt snowball.

But, again, it's easier to get out of $10,000 than $55,000. And owning a $55,000 vehicle that's going down in value like a rock, sitting in your driveway when you make 75 is a mathematical using it twice a year crazy land yeah no it's got to go you got to get rid of it you don't own any rvs i don't why uh i i waste my money on other things i do waste money i mean because i own two boats and two sea dudes that right there will offset us RV, right? And so, I mean, I got two ski boats. But again, they're a very small percentage, not only of my net worth, but of my income.

But they are also used. And well, one of them wasn't when I bought it. I bought one of them new. No, no, I meant they're used throughout the year. You're always, you know. I'm riding around behind that boat all the time. But yeah, but I mean, he may be using the rv we don't know he's not using it but um the the abode an rv all these things are toys right and there's nothing wrong with having a side by side or you know getting

a snowmobile or whatever it is you want to get that's a toy but all the things that you number one you gotta pay cash for it and all the things that you own with wheels motors on them they go down in value, so they should add up to no more than half your annual income, because otherwise you have too much juice tied up and stuff going down instead of up. That's not good. Pretty simple math formula. This is the Dave, the Ramsey Show. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it.

That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 20 years, the only company I've recommended is Zander Insurance, not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, but over the years they have constantly changed and updated their systems to make the whole process simpler and easier to get the protection needed. You can now apply with a completely touchless experience with everything being done either over the phone or the Internet. They also have plans with super competitive rates that don't require an exam, allowing you to skip a step and get the coverage you need faster.

Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Great rates and a simple process mean there's no excuse to not get this done, people. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. This is The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825- 5225. Tony is with us in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Tony. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help?

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my call. My question is, my company leases a vehicle back from me. I'm currently on steps 4, 5, and 6, and it's about $850 a month. And over the last 10 years, I've used that fund. I've just put it in a savings account and gained

zero interest on it to buy my vehicle with cash every time. And I'm just wondering what to do with that money this time around. If it's a money market, mutual funds, savings account, what's the best option? Well, if you put it into a mutual fund, you stand the probability of it going down in value, not just up, right? Correct. And I know you say if they're not going to leave it in five years and not go into a mutual fund. Yeah.

This last time it was actually about five and a half years when I used the funds. Well, I mean, you could split it up, and you could put half into a S&P 500 and half into a money market, and then you're not putting it all at risk of going down if you want to try to let it earn a little bit. The trick is that the system is what's going to save your butt, not the fact that you had it invested. Okay. How much money are we talking about?

You said $800 a month, and you're putting it all aside for car replacement, right? Correct. It's about $10,000 a year, and at the end of the – I usually run the vehicle up to about $200,000 to $250,000. I'd like to run them as long as they can, and they're always paid off. Let's say over that five-year period of time, then let's say it averaged $25,000 because it's 50,000 in five years. So it averages median to median point is 25K. And so if you make 10% on 25K, that's $2,500, which does not impact a $50,000 situation that much. Okay.

So what you earn on this money is not as important as the fact that you have a system to keep yourself from going into debt. Okay. So it would be okay to earn nothing then as long as I'm continuing with this? Yeah, because it's the investment. But if you were going to leave it alone 20 years and you left it at 1%, well, that'd be ludicrous, right? Yeah, yeah. And, Tony, I mean, you've got an opportunity to be able to put half of that aside for car replacement.

You could throw the other half. You said you're on four, five, and six. You could throw that toward the mortgage. You know, the point is you want the money to work for you. Don't put any more in this car replacement fund than you need to replace the car right and so whatever the schedule is on that and again if you want to just just to dial it up a little bit move half of it into mutual funds into into an s&p 500 and the other half just let it ride on a uh a thing uh i mean let it ride in a money market account but but the whatever you

earn on it even if you earn really good, is not going to substantially change your life. What is substantially changing your life is you've been smart enough to avoid debt, and you have a system to replace these cars after you wear them out, and you are destroying them because of the number of miles you're putting on them. I mean, you're just wearing them out, and that's your road warrior. That's part of the cost of doing business in your world. Nothing wrong with that, but at least you've figured out how to admit it. And that's pretty cool.

And you also figured out the $800 a month doesn't cover all your costs. So they're giving you some money, but they're not giving you a company car. You'd have been better off with a company car. A lot better off. All right, Dave is with us in Dallas. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help?

Hi, Dave. I'm trying to determine whether or not I should do a deferred income annuity. Why would you do that? Well, my financial person suggested it because I'm real fearful of a market crash. And she's like, well, you know, if the market crashes, you know, you're losing the value of our retirement right now. I'm retired. My wife is fixing to retire. How old are you? I'm 58.

How much money is there? Retired at 55. How much money is there? We've got 2.3. And you're fearful that the market is going to completely destroy? Well, not completely, but, you know, half. And then if I'm withdrawing... And where in history have you seen it do that?

Okay, you're right, you're right. 30%, I guess. And where in history have you seen it do that? I thought 2008 was somewhere around there no it was half it went the dow went from 13 to 6700 okay and it was back in a year right right and now it's not 6700 or 13 it's 30 000 right correct okay so unless you have a need for 2.5 million dollars at the bottom of the market you would not embrace the 30 loss you would ride it out wouldn't you yes even though i'm going to be withdrawing you know 10 grand a month which is a whole 120 000 a year that's not even the growth okay okay dave listen listen my

friend you are an everyday millionaire you have been intentional in growing this money you're going to be fine i listen the thing is this okay i understand that the world is unraveling out here in front of us. I'm watching it, too. I'm not disagreeing with you about that. But Dr. Deloney talks about when we're in a crisis that indicate that we're going to have a substantial market drop and it's going to maintain and it's going to stay down there, then we would have this discussion. I don't have any of those facts. The only thing I've got is I don't like the socialist tendencies that are in D.C. right now.

I don't like the idea of heavy taxation. I don't like what they're going to do to the economy overall. I don't think it's going to be pleasant, but I don't think we're going to see a market correction of 30%. I'm 60. I have pulled zero out of the market due to my being upset about the current world that I live in. Does that make sense?

Yes. So while I have those emotions, I have to gauge the actual facts of the history to do that. So all of that said, I'm not sure I would do a deferred income annuity. I might do a variable annuity. And a variable annuity will give you principal protection and a floor of a minimum gain or minimum increase in value usually five percent six percent and you're invested in vehicles that are going to make you 10 to 12 on average but if the market really tanked you'd have principal protection and you

would have uh you know a floor for the earnings and And so if that will make you sleep better at night, you're going to pay an extra fee for that variable annuity that you really don't need. It doesn't give you anything that you need except that peace of mind that you're looking for. So you're paying for that. Now, would I move the whole $2 million in there? Absolutely not. But would I move, in your case, if you still think this through and you still are worried about it, you know, then you might move $500, $700 in there, maybe move a third of your net worth into that.

It's not a bad place because you can put it in good mutual funds. You'll still have a similar growth rate. You're just going to have higher expense ratios. Okay. And when you pull money out of it, it's no longer going to be taxed at, well, it's all in 401ks anyway, isn't it? Correct. Yeah, you're going to be taxed ordinary income anyway when you come out.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. Right now, no, mine's not in 401ks. All of mine is, or the majority of mine is in IRAs. Okay, but if you have non, so you're taxed at ordinary income when you pull it out of a traditional IRA. And so when you pull it out of this, you're going to be taxed ordinary income too. So that doesn't harm you much. If you're dealing with non-retirement money putting into a variable annuity, you're going to change from capital gains taxation to ordinary income taxation, which is something else to consider, but that's not your case. So maybe a third of it, Dave, but the other thing I would do is I'd spend some more time learning about

history and let facts be your friends, even though we're scared. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, America. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Kyle is with us in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Hey, Kyle, how are you? Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. I got a quick question about a little bit of extra

money that I got where I should be putting it. I say I should be putting it extra towards my mutual funds. My wife wants to pay off the rental properties. Your wife would be right. So even if I plan on selling those rental properties when i retire out of the military in four years we'll go and sell them now i could do that okay they're still making me a little bit of money and so when i retire i think the key here is a little bit yeah but kyle think the key here is a little bit. Yeah. But, Kyle, think about it.

That same mindset you have of wanting to put the money into mutual funds for it to be able to grow long-term for you, if you go ahead and sell them now and take that equity, finish cleaning up whatever debt you have, and now you invest that, now you're on a serious long-term growth plan. Yeah. Here's the thing. That is true. You're not really making any money on these rental properties, are you? Not real money. I mean, I'm making close to $750 a month off the rentals

and it's paying down the mortgage and, you know, building equity. $750 minus vacancy minus repairs. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, really we're talking about $3,000 or $4,000 a year. Mm-hmm. And how far in debt on the rental properties? Total, it's $437,000.

$437,000 worth of risk to make $3,000 a year. That does not make sense. When you said a little bit of money, I knew what you were talking about. See, I love real estate, but real estate is not a good investment the way you've done it. Because this is probably, it has as much chance of costing you money at the end of the story as it does making you money. So I think you're both going to get your wish. I would sell the rentals now because I don't think they're a blessing. And I want you to buy rentals later and pay cash for them in your wealth-building journey,

but not this year and maybe after you get out of the military and maybe after you decide where you're going to settle and all of those kinds of things but right now i'm going to go ahead and invest that money in mutual funds like you wanted to do yeah kyle thank you for your service by the way but i knew dave was about to do a math lesson on you i knew it because i've been around enough and i've heard it and unfortunately you know when we see it for what it is you see those numbers the real way and you start to identify you're only making about $3,000 a year and taking on that level of risk, you can quickly identify that it's not worth it. the 20-year-olds, 20- to 30-year-olds, even 20- to 35-year-olds right now, that we're seeing almost on a moment-by-moment basis in all of our interactions with you guys out there through broadcasting and through all the other ways we interact with you. The positive is there's this tremendous, this generation, whatever we're calling these 20-somethings,

has this tremendous entrepreneurial zeal and drive. And this sense to be independent. And it's not greed-driven. It's initiative. It's very positive. It really is. It's a wonderful character attribute. You've got that.

That's how you got these rental properties. And that drive is causing these 20-somethings to do two things, and oftentimes poorly, because they're doing them too quickly. I did this in my 20s, but I'm a boomer, which now is a put-down, but used to be just a demographic. But now I've got old man house shoes, you know, so there you go. But this wonderful zeal, this wonderful entrepreneurial zeal is causing these 20-somethings to buy real estate. I've got to buy real estate. I'm going to get rich in real estate. I'm going to get rich in real estate.

Man, when I was in my 20s is when infomercials started. Oh. That was the beginning of infomercials. Oh, yes. I'm going to get rich in real estate. I'm going to get rich in real estate. uh i grew up in the real estate business and so i went straight into i'm gonna get rich in real estate and i did i became a millionaire by the time i was 26 and uh the it's driving this bitcoin craze it's driving this gamestop craze yes yes the same zeal is driving

people to do these things and to get out there and I'm going to do something. I'm going to get something. And it's not greed. The spirit on it, I mean, my discernment says it's not greed. It is initiative. It's a positive ambition. But what happened with me was I bought real estate that I couldn't afford. I leveraged it.

I totally borrowed money. And I ended up with $4 million worth of real estate that I couldn't afford i leveraged it i used totally borrowed money and i ended up with four million dollars worth of real estate that i owed three million on so i had a million dollar net worth but it wasn't cash flowing and i was flipping it and it was barely cash flowing like his is barely cash flowing this is why i know this math because i lived it right because i did the same thing only i did it with more zeros on the end it wasn't 400 000 is for me and it took me down because the bank got uh sold and called our notes and uh then i and i didn't have any cash i was not in it i had all these assets but there was no cash and when you do that with real estate is when you're going to go broke not when you're going to make a fortune in real estate. And so real estate that does not have margin is not a blessing.

It's a liability. And investing in things that don't have margin or that are a high-risk gamble play is a misuse of your entrepreneurial ambitious zeal. And so I love the zeal. What I want to do is channel it with some wisdom and a process some wisdom yes and that is slow down a little bit yeah and pay cash and don't invest everything you have in super high risk crap um i mean and i i know there's stories of people making money in bitcoin i know there's stories of people making money with Bitcoin. I know there's stories of people making money with GameStop.

We talked to one here on the air the other day. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I know stories of people who made money at the roulette wheel, too. That's right. I know people that made money on Wheel of Fortune. But that doesn't mean our Jeopardy. I have personal friends that won, and they won $50,000 or something. But they didn't change their career to be game show operators. Right.

And they didn't put everything they had that didn't push all their chips to the center of the table on one hand of cards. Yeah. And that's what we're doing when we go into highly leveraged real estate, into businesses with no margin, or high-risk investment plays, and we act like it's a freaking game. Right. Because we put all the chips in the center of the table. Now, if you've got a small percentage of your chips and you're going to lose those and it doesn't kill you so that's that's different i don't even recommend that but i'm not going to make fun of you for that right i am going to call you out on the other because this this it you know it leads

to uh bad critical thinking that okay real estate's a good investment so all real estate no matter how broke i am is a good investment that's right real estate, no matter how broke I am, is a good investment. That's right. That's bad thinking skills. It is. And that's what happened in the 90s with day trading. It's what we're seeing now with Bitcoin and GameStop. But I'm going to tell you something, Dave. I'm getting these callers calling in, these millennials, on my show, The Chris Hogan Show, that are saving and investing and following the plan.

And the trail is the foundations course they took in high school, that they were either financial peace babies where their parents went through it and taught them, or they went through foundations. And so they've got this learning foundation literally where they're thinking and following the process. It's encouraging. But I had people, you know, when i'm doing real estate deals i had people that thought i was a genius when i was buying all that real estate um except the old people

and the old people that had money kept looking at me going son you're too leveraged you got no cash this is going to catch up with you you're going to get a spanking you're going to get it and i kept going oh you're just old you don't understand that this is a proper use of capital markets and i used all the cash opium you know i've got i've got great internal rates of return i have no cash right no liquidity i couldn't buy freaking loaf of bread you know but i got four million dollars worth of real estate and so this idea that you can throw around all your arrogant little terms and all they show is your immaturity they don't show that i'm a dinosaur they show that you're a child that's all it shows and so the thing is use this ambition this movement which

is so positive in this generation in a slower more methodical cash basis way with high margins, and then you're going to learn to love real estate. I've got a bunch of real estate, and I want you to have some, too. I just don't want to have you. There it is. Well, tax season is here. I know that's exciting news. Oh, goody, Dave. Thanks for the help.

The reason I want to say that, listen, you've got to do your taxes early. The reason you do them early, not in March or April, is because you're going to be under far less stress. And less stress means less mistakes. Plus, if you actually owe taxes, filing early means you can start saving or being ready to file early. Even if you need to if you need to save up and wait until april 15th to actually pull the trigger on the file you'll at least know what the target is right if you need a tax pro you need to get with one right now before they get busy you get busy you know this is the sooner you reach out to a tax pro the better and that way your taxes

get done way before the deadline and then you can decide a strategy for this year and what you need to do text the word tax pro to 33789 and we'll hook you up with one of our tax endorsed local providers text tax pro one word to 33789 and you'll find a tax pro that chris and i and all the ramsey personalities endorse and think are awesome. Clemmie is in Atlanta, Georgia. Is it Clemmie? Is that correct? Yes, sir. How can we help?

Hey, how you doing, fellas? Hey, so I've got a question. I'm in a job that I love, and with my career trajectory, I'm an assistant manager at a retail store. And within the next year or so, I'm going to bump up to a store manager and ride that out for another five years and stay with the company and go to corporate office after that. But my quandary is that I have credit card quotas to meet, and it goes against everything that I believe in. And I have to push these store credit cards, and I'm having a hard time doing my job effectively. And also, I don't want that to hinder me from moving up within my company. So I'm at a loss of what to do in this regard.

How long have you been with them uh since 2016 so i'm going on five years what do you make um i'm at 60. how big a knot is in your stomach well listening to you every day doesn't help any. Sorry about that, brother. Yeah, so I'm really pushing conflict of what you believe in. And it's going to require you to have that thought process before you gain clarity. And I would tell you what I did was I started to write down options.

Where else can I go and help people and serve well without having to do something I don't believe in? And I'm going to tell you, in that industry, it's not going to go away. You're not going to be able to miss this. In order to move up, you're going to have to embrace it. And not only embrace it, do it well. So that's where you're going to have that crisis of kind of internal conflict. You're going to have to change industries. But that doesn't mean you still can't serve people.

Now, two or three things come to mind. One is you've got a detailed career path laid out in your mind with this company. So you're not abandoning a $60,000 a year job that you hate. No. You're abandoning a dream that you've had if you leave this company, and that's going to be very hard to do. That's why this conflict is so real, and I'm not suggesting that you have to do this on principle.

You're calling and saying that the principles are that you feel like you're in conflict. So one thing is I think it's going to take you a little while, and you don't have to panic, and you're not stealing bubble gum from little children. I mean, this is not, you know, you're just doing something that you don't feel good about that you wouldn't do for your own kids, you wouldn't do for your mama. And, you know, so you're violating your conscience in that regard and so but but it's not you're not you're not doing anything illegal and you're not doing anything immoral uh so i would take my time and work my way into a new dream a new career path that uh that i can begin working on and so you know, embrace some of Ken Coleman's materials at kencoleman.com.

And, you know, the Proximity Principle book will give you a copy. I'll have Madison pick up and give you a copy. So that's kind of thing one is there's a real emotional process that probably is going to take more than 10 minutes, okay? If they came in and said you had to do something illegal that would take you about a minute and a half to walk out the door right but but this is not this is not that situation this is just a this is a rub is what this is but it's a rub it's like chris said it's not going away now the second thing is to embrace what Chris's portion of advice was.

One of my favorite books on business that I've ever read is by our friend Rabbi Daniel Lappin, and it's called Thou Shall Prosper. And Rabbi Lappin, as you can obviously guess, is a Jewish Orthodox rabbi. And the book is the ten reasons that Jewish people have had a tendency to prosper throughout history beyond the population that they've been installed in. And so, for instance, 3% of Americans are Jewish, 67% of the Forbes 400 is. So these are ten principles we all want to know, right, those of us that aren't Jewish. But Rabbi and I have become really good friends over the years, and one of the ten principles is that over a long period of time, it is almost impossible for someone

to prosper doing something that they don't believe to be morally correct. Yes. So it's going to be very difficult over the next ten years for your dream path to actually occur because you have this other, you know, knot in your stomach. And, you know, and I'm sorry I put it there, but I'm glad you recognize it. I mean, again, I'm not pounding my fist and yelling that this company is horrible or something. They're just a retail company selling credit cards.

They all do. And my goal is that one day enough Americans wake up and realize that the credit card is basically the cigarette of the financial world, that companies like this quit doing that because the public pressure forces them to. Like the public pressure is forced to change in smoking. You know, when I was growing up, you could smoke on an airplane, a metal tube with people in it full of smoke. I mean, it's just amazing. In the air. And the funniest one was when they went to no smoking sections yes as if as if as if the magic you were exist it's like the no p into the pool i mean you know it's like it doesn't go to the

other end of the pool come on and so um you know but anyway that that you know that's what's going to happen if as we continue to have more and more and more people understand that living debt-free is a fabulous way of doing it. It really is. And, Clemmie, I'm going to tell you, that little knot that you have right now is only going to continue to grow. I'm sorry. And so I am too, but I'm excited for you. The thing that I got to was that it was a matter of the Lord had something else for me to do. And so having that awareness, as Dave said, you do shift the dream, but you do understand that you're still able to serve people and use the skill set you've been blessed to have

and that you've polished. And so again, get Ken's book. We're going to send you a copy. I want you to read it, but start to lay out options. And I'm proud of you for reaching out and talking about this uh early on it was something i struggled with before i reached out to a mentor to discuss yeah i think the options is a big deal when you've got a new dream that is as detailed as your current dream oh man oh game changer in a different area that's not going to cause you these knots in your stomach

yeah then making the change will be easy right now the idea of making the change is going from this dialed-in path to nothing. Yep. And that's not a jump anybody can make emotionally if you're wise. No. And your emotions will stop you from doing that, and they should. So take your time, and let's get a new dream detailed out, a new path that says, I'm going to work here, and then I'm going to be a store manager, and then I'm going to be a regional manager, and then I'm going to work in the home office,

and whatever it is. I mean, you had it laid out. I mean, you had it dialed in. But I wish I could tell you that the big box, whatever it is, retailer, Home Depot. They'll wake up. Lowe's, whoever it is, you know, Walmart, whoever it is. I don't know who it is. But I wish I could tell you they were going to quit peddling credit cards soon enough for your dream to come true,

but they're not. They're not. Tarjani. We're going to keep working on them at Ramsey, though. Yeah, we are. Until we bother them enough that enough people start to realize that I think we can create a whole movement. I think we are. We are.

We are going to create a whole movement. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. This is Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know that over 16 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.