The Ramsey Show - App - YOU Are The Only One Responsible for Your Financial Future

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225 will get you in. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. We are affectionately known by many of you out there, certainly on social media, as the root beer float.

And George believes he's the root beer and I'm the vanilla ice cream. I take issue with that, but that is why. Depends on the day. Depends on the day. We'll see. So we will see what happens today. I take issue with that, but that is why. Depends on the day. Depends on the day. We'll see. So we will see what happens today. I can tell you this. He and I actually do enjoy being together, and we love coaching people up.

We try to have fun while we do it. So this is not your boring money show. I promise you that. Robert starts us off this hour in Los Angeles, California. Robert, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate the time. I was calling because I had a family member recently request a loan from me in the amount of about $20,000. And so I started digging into it a little bit, and it looks like

they got suckered into some type of investment. I hesitate to say scam, but it looks like they have lost about $60,000. And they are requesting this loan in order to be able to withdraw the funds. The brokerage that they are working with has said that they need about 30% of the amount that they've put in in order to allow them to withdraw the $50,000 that is, or $60,000, excuse me, that is locked up in that account. Yeah, that's not how it works. Yeah, that's a complete and utter scam. Yeah. So what'd you say?

Well, I said I wanted to look into it a little bit more, and so we dug into basically how all the accounts and everything were connected together and it ended up getting paid out of a crypto wallet. And so there's no way that you can basically file for fraud claims. I just feel horrible, but they're still kind of under the impression that this is going to be okay if they just put in another $20,000. And I just can't. I don't know. So what's your question? What's your question for us? I mean, should I give them?

No. It sounds like a scam. No. Do not give them a dollar. What do you think? What was your answer before you called us? Well, it's just I hate saying no to family, and I just feel really bad about it, and I don't like lending money to begin with.

And yet you're feeling bad about this? All you need to say is no. No, I'm not doing that. How close is this family member? It's a parent. Oh, boy. Well, if it's my parent, it's a very different conversation. No, it's not.

Well, it's much more, hey, mom, dad, I will not allow you to be a part of this scam anymore. If it's a cousin, I'm going, hey, you do you. Well, I appreciate that, George, but you can't say that to mom and dad because he can't allow them to do anything. He can say, I am not going to participate in this because this is an absolute scam. And what you're asking me to do, mom or dad, is to burn $20,000. And I did my homework on this. This is a scam. I'm not going to give you $20,000 to be completely ripped off. The answer is no. I'm so sorry. I'm happy to walk you through my answer on this, but I don't think it changes. The answer is no, because then you're going to resent them. Do you want to resent them?

No, I really don't. I just don't know how to respectfully, I mean, I really want to respectfully talk to my parents in a way that, you know, helps them, but it just, I mean, I just don't know how to respectfully, I mean, I really want to respectfully talk to my parents in a way that helps them. I just told you. Yeah. Was that too harsh? No, I think you're right. The respect is as you explain to them, I love you too much to see you continually get scammed. But wait a second.

I appreciate that, George. But no, he gets scammed. If Robert gives them 20, he continually get scammed. But wait a second. I appreciate that, George, but no, he gets scammed. If Robert gives them $20, he's getting scammed. The money part's gone. We're not even dealing with giving them a dollar. He wants to be respectful. I feel like you're more respectful than I am, George. I don't know. I feel like I laid it out there. I'm trying to think if my

mom or dad was going through this, I would have a real hard conversation. What would you say to your mom and dad? I know your mom and dad. They're nice people. Very kind. I would say, you can do what you would you say to your mom and dad? I know your mom and dad. They're nice people. Very kind. I would say, you can do what you want. You were grown adults. But I know with 100% confidence this is a scam.

Right. And you need to cut your losses now before you continually lose money. I don't want to see you guys in poor financial state. And as to the $20,000 they asked from you, how do you address that? I will not enable this behavior, and I don't want to be a part of this scam. Because if I give $20,000 and then gets disappeared to scammers, now I'm complicit. I'm an accomplice. Yeah, we're back to square one. So this is not going to be fun. Do you think they're going to, are they going to be angry with you if you don't give them the $20,000? I mean, we've had a couple of conversations about it. I think the issue is I make a fairly good income right now. I have about $125,000 a year income. I've got the money

and they know I have the money. And they've been out of work for a little while. And I just, I feel horrible because I think they, I think a lot of this is on credit. I don't know how much of the money that they put in is on credit, but in order for them to, I imagine it's somewhere in the $25,000, $30,000 range, and I don't know how they've managed to pull that off, but I just feel horrible, and I'd like to help them dig out that. Okay, so the way to answer is not by giving money. And you didn't answer George's question.

Yes or no? Are they going to get mad at you if you tell them no? I hope not. I hope not. I don't think it would ruin the relationship. Okay. The other question I have, let me switch gears real quick, because George is a little bit more adept at this stuff.

At least I think you are. It's very kind to assume that. Thank you. I don't know why I'm thanking you. Robert, listen in here. Is there a way for Robert to get on the phone with this crypto company and just kind of play a little John Wayne here? Like, hey, I'm the son and this is what my mom or dad is telling me. This is a scam. I'm coming after you. I'm going to blah, blah, blah. Is there any chance that he at least gets on there and kind of says,

they're not giving you money. Give them the money they gave to you. Give it to them. Give it back. You don't need another deposit or whatever this weird deal is. Is that even worth a college try? I feel like it is. I don't know that scammers would be very complicit in allowing,

oh, never mind, as soon as you pushed a little bit. I think he's going to have trouble getting in touch with anyone. I doubt there's a phone number to call. I doubt there's an email to even get in touch with these people. Robert, what do you know, having done some research on these folks? Yeah, so having looked into them a little bit, it looks like there's a couple of ways to get in touch with them, but most of them are encrypted messaging apps like WhatsApp or Telegram.

So it's not a legitimate. If it's on WhatsApp, you're a scammer. No legitimate company says, hey, reach out to us on WhatsApp. That's a great point. All right. Well, so much for that. I was trying to give you some hope. Yeah.

But I would do some digging on the internet and find out stories of people getting scammed from this exact company. I would file a complaint with the FTC, CFPB, all of the legitimate agencies that deal with these kind of scams. PB&J. PB&J even. Report it to them all and then say, hey, mom, dad, listen, this is not just me talking. I'm trying to spare you from more harm to your financial life. And if there hurts the relationship, you know, the old famous quote, choose guilt over resentment. I'd rather you be guilty that you didn't give than be resentful because you gave and you saw them continually burn holes in their bank accounts.

That's tough. You know, George, I feel so bad for his parents. Been out of work for a while in the get-rich-quick schemes. This is where all of this happens. They're looking for a way out, and they think this will be it. They said if I give them 50, they'll turn it into 100. Right. And it's gone.

Heartbreaking. I'm so sorry, Robert, but you can't control the people. The best you can do is warn them with all the data and passion that you can. If you're desperate right now financially, get my boy George's book, Breaking Free from Broke. Get it right now, RamseySolutions.com. It'll help guard you from this stuff. Please, he warns you. He'll take care of you. But if you guard you from this stuff. Please, he warns you. He'll take

care of you. But if you're broke, hang tight. Get George's book. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values

and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org. I'm going to help you earn more of it. How about that? So you've got the guy who wants to help you make more money and the guy who tells you what to do with the money.

That's quite a combo. Winning team. And I see you've got one of your nicer jackets on today. It's a sportsman varsity jacket, I think is what they say. Is that what it's called? I don't know. I was hoping you could tell me. That's no varsity jacket.

Got it. It's missing the leather sleeves and the letterman. Do you even know what it means to letter in a sport? I never made the team, Ken. I think that's pretty obvious. I know. No one is shocked by that at all. But we still love the letterman. Do you even know what it means to letter in a sport? I never made the team, Ken. I think that's pretty obvious. I know. No one is shocked by that at all. But we still love you, George.

Thank you. And you are our coach today. So where's the whistle? Let's get you a whistle and a hat. I think whistles are obtrusive. They might be. Jim is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. Jim, how can we help today?

Hi, how you doing? Yeah, I'm calling because our church is expanding. We're adding on to the building, taking out a loan. Our church collects decent offerings every week and month, but they want some guarantors to co-sign for the loan. So how big is the loan? The loan is going to be about $3 million. And what kind of offerings are? Yeah, tell me about those church offerings. The church offerings are about $15,000 every week. The loan amount would be like $17,000 a month.

So they want you to take personal risk for a $3 million loan. A few of the members. Are you on the leadership team? Yes, I am. How do you feel about this? I'm not at peace

about it. That's why I called to be honest with you. We have some people that have done it. Yeah, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. I guess I'm just kind of shocked that they would ask that. I agree. That's a very uncomfortable position to put you in. The church should never have to ask individuals to be guarantors on that. If the church can't service that loan, I don't know what they're thinking. So yeah, the reason they need the guarantor is because the lender doesn't believe the church has the finances

to pay the loan. That should be red flag number one. Yeah. Waving in the wind. And number two, if I'm part of this church board, I'm going to say, what would it take to cash flow this through a giving through the church? Who's driving this?

Who's driving this expansion idea? is it the pastor uh it's it's combination uh pastors and leaders yeah but i mean come on who's the real cheerleader you know the answer who is it the pastor yeah that's what i thought yeah he needs to cool his jets the answer is no i wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole and by the way you felt that way before you called us yeah i'm just calling for some confirmation i just to make sure your gut's right um this this is a listen i come from the church world i was raised in the church my dad was a church planner um my dad didn't do what this pastor's doing, but I've seen it.

You know, growth is exciting. Hey, we want to do this. We want to grow. And I believe the pastor's heart's in the right place. But he's got building fever, and it's an easy thing to happen. And it's just like anything else. He, as a pastor, is not immune from the idea of being tempted to buy a bigger house, George, or to buy some land and build the dream home well before you're ready to do so.

He's not immune from that, and that's what this is. He shouldn't be putting pressure as a leader on people in the church to personally guarantee what the church needs to handle on their own. So for that reason, George, we're out. We're out. So there you go. Let's go to Morgan in Cleveland, Ohio. Morgan, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, guys? Good. How are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. I recently experienced a pretty big increase in my income. I am a student and I've moved from an hourly wage to kind of a higher salary. And I'm a bit overwhelmed about what to do with it and how

to manage it responsibly. I was wondering if you have any advice for a student on go buy a house or invest or I have no idea what to do. Wow. Congrats. So what were you making and what do you make now? So I was making, the most I've ever made is about $20 an hour and my new salary is $210,000 a year. Whoa! So you have 5x your income. You went from like 40 grand,000. Tell us really quickly, in 20 seconds, what happened? I'm a law student, and I just got really, I got decent grades, and I landed a job. Nice. Good for you. So you've already taken the firm job.

You got the big job. So this will be for next summer. So I'd be a summer associate. But after that, hopefully the plan is that they'd hire me back. I've pretty consistently, they hired those individuals back and they train you over the summer. Okay. So I will receive this prorated next summer. Okay.

So it's a prorated. It's not like you've signed on and you're now going to be making $210,000 over the next 12 months. I will after I graduate. So that'll be in a year. Okay, gotcha. So it's locked in. Okay, gotcha. But you know this is coming, that potentially a year from now, you'll five extra income, and you're going, what do I do? Wow. Yes. Do you have any debt from law school? No, I was very fortunate to have a good scholarship.

Wow. Well, you worked your butt off for it. It wasn't luck. I appreciate that. That's awesome. So no debt at all? No debt at all. No car loan, no credit card debt. I live in an apartment. How much fun are you going to have with this? You just catapulted your future. Do you have anything in savings right now? I have about $100,000 in savings. Who are you? Is this a prank call, Morgan? Yes.

Be honest. Morgan, are you a real person? I am. Actually, I wanted to thank you guys because my parents actually, I'm sure they would be shocked that I'm calling the show right now, but they listened to Dave Ramsey growing up and the whole show, they went to his events, they wanted to thank him and get the opportunity. So I will thank him for them. The best thank you is following the plan and living it out

and changing your family tree, and your parents have done that. You're doing that. $100,000 saved, no debt. They paid off their house, so they want to thank you as well. Wow, look at that. Incredible family. Okay, so if I'm in your shoes, my next goal would likely be to purchase a home once I have that stable, big income. So what does your living situation look like right now?

Right now I'm in an apartment. I pay about a thousand dollars a month. I'm right next to my law school, walkable. And yeah, that's about it. Is the firm in the same area where you're going to school now? It's not. I will have to move. I have a place rented out for the summer already that I've paid for for next summer, but that's about $1,000 as well, $1,000 a month. George, what I was going to suggest here, and I'll stay out of the way here and let you keep going,

but I wonder if she doesn't rent for at least six months, maybe 12 months months once she lands in this new metropolitan area or wherever she's even if you want to rent for two years and continue stacking up cash depending on how big a home she's gonna get yeah i don't know what your area is like but i mean how cool of a goal would it be to say i'm gonna keep living how i've been living and this extra you know what 150 grand i'm gonna just sock away into savings and after two two years, I'm going to have a few extra hundred grand. I think that's what I'm wondering is I don't I mean, I know nothing about houses. I've never looked to buy a house. I don't know if that's a terrible idea. I should be investing and just keep living kind of frugally or the good news is you can do both.

So in the baby steps, you would be at baby steps for, you could call it 3B, where you're saving up for the home down payment. And many people choose to invest that 15% into retirement from their income. And so you can do that now, depending on what retirement options you have through your employer. You could always open a Roth IRA and fully fund that through your income. And then as you make more, that 15% chunk gets larger. 15% of 200 grand is way more than 40. And so as you do that, you're going to continue to build wealth. Any money beyond that, let's stack away in a high yield savings account and maybe get a house in the next two years. And maybe you could even pay cash.

Yeah, that's an overwhelming thought. And here's the deal. You don't have to do this alone. If you jump on to RamseySolutions.com, click on Trusted Services, and you can get connected with a real estate agent that is Ramsey trusted that will help you walk through this home ownership journey. And I think that's the next step for a young gal who's crushing it. And beyond that, enjoy some of it. Give some of it. Yeah.

And I just want to say, Morgan, I know you're doing such a great job out on your own, but your mom and dad have taught you right. They've done it the right way. Call mom and dad. You're not alone on this deal. They're going to walk you through them. They're solid people. And so you've got the best bench that you could possibly want helping coach you as you

enter into life. Thanks for the call, Morgan. You're a superstar. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner

you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is my partner today, and we are here for you, America. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. One of our favorite things to do on the program is when we have folks come in live here in our lobby, just across the way from our studio right now, and we are looking at another fantastic young couple here to do their Debt-Free Scream. Garrett and Tisha, welcome. Hello. Thanks for having us.

All right, so you guys ready to go for the debt-free scream? You're all fired up. What's your nervous level on a scale of 1 to 10? 1 being no nerves, 10 being freaked out. Like a 1, maybe. Wow, you don't hear that very often. They do seem calm. Notice that Tisha's the one that said that.

Garrett was unable to answer. He's so uptight. Choked up. Yeah, he's good. I'm a 3. A 3? Okay, good. Well, this is exciting. Where are you guys from? West Fargo, North Dakota. West Fargo. Okay, very nice. All right, so how much debt? Give us the data. How much debt did you pay off and how long? The last five years, we've paid off $200,000.

Wow, $200,000 in five years. And what was the range of income in that time? Between $90,000 and $130,000. Oh, cool. What did you do to bump it up to $130,000? Just raises and just life. Yeah, it just happened. It was exciting. So what do you guys do? I'm a social worker.

Okay. I work with people with disabilities. Okay, great. Fantastic. Love that. Both working with people all the time. Love that. What kind of debt was the $200,000 was our mortgage. Whoa. Whoa. All $200? Yep. Oh my goodness. That is a weird thing to do in today's day and age. It really is. What's the

house worth, you think? About $250. Okay. Awesome. So what happened five years ago when you guys decide one day to pay off your house? Yeah, so it started even a little bit before that. We started our debt-free journey in February of 2017, and we just started attacking our consumer debt, and in 2019 paid off $75,000 of consumer debt, and we're actually on the show in September of 2019 to do our debt-free scream just for our consumer debt. So this is your second? This is our second one. This explains the nerve situation. Yeah, we've done it before.

Don't call it a comeback. Because you guys have done this before. This is old hat. Yeah. Oh, this is rare. The old twofer. So tell us the difference you feel from paying off consumer debt to now paying off the mortgage. How would you explain both of those experiences?

It's a lot more relaxed. Yeah. We were gazelle intense for those first few years and extra jobs and all of that. And now the last five, it's been a lot more relaxed, able to enjoy life a little bit more. I mean, you guys are still hustling here. Just based on napkin math, we're talking like 60 grand a year going toward the mortgage. How'd you do that? A little less than that. But yeah, just every penny, every dollar that we had extra always went to the mortgage. Wow.

This is, okay, now this is interesting because you just shared with the audience that this is your second time around. You paid off all the other debt and I'm guessing that was fairly intense as well. That was. Okay. That's when it was really gazelle intense. Like we weren't doing anything fun, anything extra. And then once that was done, we could... So what was the timeline like when you finished all the consumer debt to then tackling the house? Was it a one month, two month layoff? I feel like it was a couple of months. We got back, we left here, got back to town and started putting more into our savings account and working on that.

And then immediately just attacking the house with everything that we had extra. Wow. But you still had a little bit of fun with this time. We did. We actually went out to eat a little bit more and bought some fun things here and there. Wild. Yeah, I know. Absolutely wild.

So we talk about moving from intentionality, intensity to intentionality. And that's what you guys did in this phase. We're so proud of you. That's amazing. Do you guys have cheerleaders? Like were people looking at you weird for paying off your mortgage? Yeah. Did anyone know it was even happening? Oh yeah. Everybody knew. We love to talk about it. That's one of our motivators, I guess. It keeps us going, being able to talk about it. You got to be accountable. You tell everyone now they're going, Hey, how's that mortgage doing? You're like, we're knocking it out. We're on it.

And here you are. We've been our biggest cheerleaders because we talk about it every day. And then having a little one now, she's always yelling at us, cheering us on. Oh, we're seeing the photo here if you're watching on the app or YouTube. That's amazing. So what was the why behind this? I think, I mean, it changed over the course of time. You know, right away when it was just us, it was we wanted to provide for each other safety and security and just have, you know, have no debt and just feel free. And then as our daughter,

Penelope, was born, it changed. And then she really became the why. We want her to never experience debt and have parents be free and have financial peace. That way we can be more relaxed, calm parents and give her the world. Yeah. I'm just curious, is there any way of describing what it felt like to make the last payment? For me, it didn't set in making the last paint like we went to the bank we paid it off and i was like okay that feels good it was when we got paid next and that money was just ours then we could do what we want like i was like oh my gosh i love that it gets real yeah it just sits in the bank account instead of going back out to lenders yep what what's like the first big thing you did or you're going to do?

This. This was, yeah. A little trip to Nashville. Yep. But you guys are super young. You got, you know, you got what, 30 more years of a working career? Yep. What are you going to do now? You got no payments in the world. Well, the next step is save to be a millionaire. There we go. You guys

are on the path. I'm guessing you've been investing along the way. Yep. You've got a paid for $250,000 house, so you're probably at least halfway there. What's your net worth, do you think? It's just under five. Yeah. Yep. We kind of feel like 2030, we might be that millionaire status. I love it.

Wow. We're going to gift you guys two every dollar premium subscriptions, and inside of that, there's a great tool called Financial Roadmap. It'll actually show you exactly what your millionaire date's going to be. It's a fun milestone to celebrate. And you'll just be getting started at that point. I mean, you'll blink and you'll be there. So yeah, that's for you. You can give it to someone else to kickstart their journey. Someone who's been maybe inquisitive going, hey, tell me more about this. How are you guys actually doing this? Maybe a coworker who's been a little skeptical and were there any haters along the way because people are going why would you pay off a low interest mortgage what are they thinking there's been a few our neighbor uh

car salesman they've they've called it out and that's the class of culprits yeah yeah i love the neighbor giving you a hard time it's pretty great great. Did you do the old run out in the yard with the shoes off now that it paid off? Or are you waiting for the snow to do some snow angels? No, we've been out with the girl. Yep. So fun. She's off a few times. That's fun.

It does feel different. It does? Yep. Yeah. I mean, you feel the financial peace just emanating off of them. It's beautiful. Yeah, you really do. So fun. All right. Well, let's do them. It's beautiful. Yeah, you really do.

So fun. All right, well, let's do this. Let's get the sweet little princess in here. Her name is Penelope. That's a great name, by the way. I love that name. And how old is Penelope now? She is 20 months. Wow.

Beautiful red hair, too. Thank you. She'll get to look back at this YouTube video one day and go, that's how my mom and dad changed my family tree. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And she'll probably roll her eyes that you didn't do something right, mom or dad, in the scream and the pinky. You picked that dress for me.

Yes. Yeah, welcome to being a teenager. That'll happen. But you guys are great parents. This little one has no idea how you have paved the way for her prosperity as well. So such a great story. Really, really fun. All right, we've got Garrett and Tisha.

Am I saying that right? Tisha. See, I forgot in five minutes. Tisha, along with little Penelope from West Fargo, North Dakota. They paid off $200,000. That is the house, by the way, in their second debt-free journey in five years, making $90,000 to $130,000. Let's hear your debt-free journey in five years, making 90 to 130. Let's hear your debt-free scream.

Are you ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! I love it. Oh, yay! Penelope's clapping as well. We got her clapping. Oh, my goodness.

That is so cute. She's so sweet. She's smiling. She's debt-free, and she doesn't even know it. How fun is that? It's incredible. So they started the journey February 2017, paying off consumer debt, and here we stand 2024, house paid off and everything.

That's a seven-year journey to completely transform their financial lives. Yeah. So for everyone listening out there who thinks you can't do this, are you willing to commit for seven years that could change everything, that could change the next 30, 40, 50 years, change generations that come after you? That's pretty wild to think about. Sounds like a long time. They're still young. They're still with it. And they got the rest of their life with no payments. That's a dream worth chasing. Folks, I can't add anything to that.

Coach George with the locker room talk today. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is my partner in crime today, and we are here for you, America. We want to coach you up to win with your money. That's a budget.

That's saving. That's investing. And then it's all about making the maximum income that you can make so that you can actually build wealth. And so that's what George and I specialize in today, winning with your paycheck and winning with that budget. So let's get right to it. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Shuby is up next in the Big Apple. Shuby, how can we help? Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. You bet. So I just wanted help on how to make my rent payments and car payments. I just actually suffered a job loss last week on Wednesday.

Oh, sorry about that. What happened? So basically it was just, I had medical reasons and that kind of factored into my performance. And like, I just had to be, you know, out and take a lot of doctor trips. And like, I just guess they're like, you know, we have to let you go. And to be honest, it wasn't somewhere where I wanted to work. It was really toxic. What were you doing and what were you making? Yes, I was a fund accountant and I was making $74,000. Okay. So what have you been doing in the meantime? What's your next bill? How are you going to pay for it?

Yeah, so I did file for unemployment, but to be honest, I don't think I'm going to get much off of that. Maybe maximum $2,000 a month, I guess, for this October. I'm planning on using my savings. How much do you have in savings? About $3,060 something. And what are your monthly bills? If you had to just cover the bare bones, you're not eating out, we're just trying to survive, what would it take to cover a month? I would say like about $3,700.

So we can't even get through October at this point? Well, in terms of rent, yes. But in terms of the next, what do you call it? Because I do have income from this month that I got from my job, so I should have enough. Good. So we can get through a month. We need some short-term income,

and Ken's going to help you get some ideas of what we can do. and then we need to find you a full-time job that you can do. What's the status of your health now? So I've been going to a doctor, and my eye is getting better, but it's not 100%, but it's definitely better, much better than where I started from. Are you expecting that you're going to be having to miss work? No, I think before, yes. Before when I was let go, yes, I had to because it was no choice, but I don't think that should be a problem now. Okay. And are you planning to stay in the same type of a role doing accounting work?

To be honest, that's not my dream, but I think for now I would have no choice. What's the long-term play? I want to be a cybersecurity analyst. Okay. Have you talked to people that are in cybersecurity and doing the analytical work inside of that to get a real sense of what that looks like and you know that you know that you know you'd be on fire for that kind of work yes i mean there's um yeah good that's good news because that's the thing should be it's like okay we got to get stable right now in the short term so that's you doing three and four uh accounting type contracts or something like that,

or let's get some full-time work right away. But you have a very, very transferable skill, and I would assume, tell me if I'm wrong, that you also can do a lot of your work remote in certain situations as well, so that opens you up beyond just the New York market. Is that true? Yes, that's correct. All right, So how intense are

you right now about getting work? On a scale of one to 10, one, you're catching up on all the Netflix shows, and 10, that's all you're thinking about is getting work? No, definitely 10. Okay. All right. I mean, that's the key. That's the absolute key is to jump on this right now. We don't wait. We don't let, okay, we're going to take it easy this month. It's right here, right now. George, Shuby, before we let you go, you feel good about, I've got a budget in place and I've got enough money coming in in the next month, but I've got to start drawing a paycheck in the next month, month and a half.

Is that true? Yes, and I guess my car is just another thing. Well, I'm just paying a lot for the car and I want to get rid of it. Do you need a car? Are you in New York City proper where you can use public transportation? Yes. Okay. What is left on the car loan? Well, it's actually a lease. I actually have $23,970 left. Is that the early buyout amount? No. The yearly buyout is $36,674. Oh my gosh. That's insane. The car's not even worth. Well, yeah, that's the problem with leases. I mean, you're prepaying the depreciation, and then you still got to give back the car. Yeah.

So we need to get you out of this, and that might mean we need to come up with some cash. We might need to get, you know, kind of a loan from a credit union to cover the difference to get out of this, and then you need to sell it and get, you know, I don't think you need a car right now. So I think the good news is you can just get rid of it and not have to turn around and buy something else. Yeah, but I was also thinking like maybe a car, like it could be useful for like doing like DoorDash or something. That's what I was thinking too. Dude, no. You're an accountant. Why would you trade your time for driving DoorDash when you can trade your time for getting paid at a premium for a really needed service?

Why would you do that? You're going to get paid way more offering your accounting services than you are dropping off somebody's tacos. Not to mention that lease has very strict parameters. I mean, you look at what you can do with mileage and wear and tear. I mean, I don't think you're going to be able to pull that off. Yeah, you want to get rid of this car, and putting more wear and tear on it doesn't make sense. Yeah, okay.

Come on, Shuby. So you got a few options here. The first is an early lease termination. That involves a whole bunch of fees. The second option is a lease transfer, where you convince some other goober to take over your lease. That's going to be tough. And the third one is what I mentioned is the lease buyout,

where you pay the difference between the lease payoff amount and the current value of the car, which you said you're underwater on. Yeah, like they're often like $36, $674 the buyout, but like when I'm going on like Carvana or CarMax, the car is only worth $29. Well, yeah, they're not going to give you much for it. You got to go a private party to get a higher value for the car. So I'd see if you can do that, what would the difference be? And can you come up with that difference?

Yeah, I'm gonna have to take that out then. That's some extra homework for you. Well, hang on the line, Shuby. I want to send you a great resource from my friend Ken. It's called Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And with that comes a Get Clear Career Assessment. So here's your homework. I think we need to figure out if this is really the path, if cybersecurity analyst is what you're wired to do. And it's going to help you answer a few of those major questions, who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally and how to get there. So if you want to, we're going to send that to you for free. And for the rest of America, if you guys want to check out, find the work you're wired to do, go to Ramamsaysolutions.com slash store, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Thank you. Right now, the book is a number one bestseller in two categories on Amazon.

Congrats. Well, that means it's been helping people. Starting to help people. And it is such a great resource. I'll just say this, that the assessment itself is going to give you real clarity on what you do best, what you enjoy doing, and what motivates you. And then the book itself is about a 45-minute read of me coaching you. How do we actually translate this information about myself now into finding the right kind of work where I can grow and make really good money? And what have we told people for decades, George, about their income? I want to bring it back to- Your income is your greatest wealth building tool. So we need to get the income- Why? Why do we say that?

Because without it, it's hard to accomplish any of the baby steps. You need margin in your income in order to pay down the debt or to invest. And so a lot of people out there can, number one, they're in hourly jobs that aren't paying enough. They either got a degree that wasn't useful or they didn't finish or they're kind of wandering through life going, is this it? I'm miserable. I mean, we see these calls all the time. People are doing work they're not passionate about. and then they wonder why they're not making progress in their careers. Why would you at that point? And this leads to the desperation that we heard on a call to start the show today. And you cover this stuff all the time. You wrote about it in your book. People fall into these traps because it seems to make sense.

Oh, I'm desperate. Ooh, here's the Hail Mary. I'm out of work. I need a shortcut. I don't make enough. I need a shortcut. And when you find the work you're wired to do and you make good money doing it, you're no longer looking for shortcuts.

You move slower with more peace. And there's constant opportunities for growth. And growth is what you're looking for. Good hour, George Campbell. Thank you, sir. Thank you, America, for joining in. This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We help you win with your money. We help you win in your work and we help you win in your relationships. By the way, all three of

those areas are just always interconnected and that's why we focus on those areas to help you win. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside, and he's looking snappy today in his new coat from Gap Kids. Thank you. It looks great. It fits really well. On sale. He got the extra large. I love that. 888-825-

5225 is the phone number. 888-825- 5225. We have fun because we truly do love each other. Don't worry, Merrick. I'll get him back later. Trust me. When he least suspects it.

He's going to get me back, and that's kind of the fun that we have here on the show. By the way, if you want to check out our Instagram accounts today, at George Camel, K-A-M-E-L, or at Ken Coleman, we collaborated on a post where the social media team had some fun, and that's all I'll say. Yeah. It's worth the 10 seconds of your time. That's all it is, 10 seconds.

Abby's up. We're going to give her a lot more time than that. Abby in Buffalo, New York. Abby, how can we help today? Oh, thank you so much for taking my call. I am looking for some advice. The long story short is I fought a custody battle for five years. I got divorced.

My daughter was two. She's now 14. But she was about nine when this started. And I lost the custody battle. Unfortunately, um, the judge is actually in a civil lawsuit with 350 plus families for always siding with the man to give sole custody. So, um, yeah, yes. Sounds like he's got an agenda. It's a she. That's the irony is the judge is a female.

Oh. And she, yes, she does have an agenda. And so there's a lot of families who have filed this together. It's a very unfortunate. I wish I'd seen some more of the red flags. Are you still in the middle of this? And the reason I'm asking... So you're not spending any more money on lawyers at this point? No, it's all over.

And what's your financial status? Horrible. Are you in debt? Do you have any savings? I am in little debt i have one credit card left that i need to pay off i've paid off all of my attorney fees good which is at 450 an hour um that's all over i have one small credit card but but I have no savings, essentially. How much? Give George a picture. Is it $100 or $1,000? I'm sorry?

Is it $100 or $1,000? Give us a number. Oh, for the credit card, I owe $4,000. No, for your savings. Oh, I have about $200 in my checking account and about $2,000 in my retirement because I also pulled from my retirement to pay legal fees. Okay. Do you have any money in savings? No. $200. And the credit card is $4,000?

Yes. And what are you doing for work, and what do you make? Well, that's part of the problem as well. When I started, the judge deemed that I cared more about my profession than my child, which anyone who knew me, it was not the case. I worked for Harvard University at the time and made about $135 a year. And I resigned from my position to show that I did in fact care for my child. You quit your job to convince the judge? Yes. That's essentially what she told me I had to do to prove that my daughter is more important than my position. What are you doing now? I represent a nonprofit.

I am a director for them. We train service dogs and place service dogs for people who have hard of hearing. What are you making in this job? A little, about half of what I used to, about $67,000 a year. What were you doing for Harvard? I was a director of development as well. I raised money for academic research. How long ago was this that you left?

About four years ago. So you've been working for this nonprofit at half the income for four years? Yes. I, after resigning the emotional, I, someone asked me once if the financial stress of the custody battle or the emotional was worse. And I'd say the emotional, but financially it destroyed me. And honestly, I wasn't great at working for a while. This is my only child and it destroyed me. And I wasn't great at jobs that I did. I got jobs. I knew I wasn't doing it well.

Well, but you're just trying to survive. You're just trying to survive this unbelievable fight for your daughter. So I think everybody understands that it's very difficult to be engaged at work when you're on this battle. But here's the reality. This is my take. I want George to weigh in. You're on the other side of this. It is what it is now. The fight is over. I hate that you drained your savings. But as I look at the current picture, you only have $4,000 worth of debt. And so this is an income. This is a, I've got to move on with my life now. And part of moving on with my life is I'm on the other side of this battle. I'm sure there's still some healing. I'm not in any way minimizing the battle scars, but at this point, the battle's over, the smoke is cleared, and you have got to fight for you right now. And a huge part of this is you are worth double at a minimum of what you're making right now. And it's time for you to build back. And the good news, George, I want to bring you in here. I don't think she's in as bad a shape financially as she feels. I think six months from now, your life looks completely

different because in the next 30 days, you've got a thousand bucks. What's your next paycheck is going to be? A few grand? Yes. So I get paid every other Friday and essentially after, you know, healthcare taxes and that, it's about, I clear, I net $2,000 every other week. Can you sock away another $800 from that and put it in savings and not touch it? That's what I think I need. That's the advice I need to hear. I mean, at this point, I don't own anything, and I miss owning my house because I sold my house in this process, everything.

Like, I want to save up for a goal of something like that. We'll get you there. We'll get you back to a foundation and a life that you love. Right now we're just trying to build that foundation. And so $1,000 is your starter emergency fund. Once you have that in savings, we don't touch it, and then we go about the business of knocking out this credit card debt. So how quickly, if you got real intense, you didn't invest, you maybe worked extra, how quickly could you knock out four grand of credit card debt?

Three months? Probably if I, part of it, I work remotely. And so I always feel like I'm like, I live, work, eat, sleep in the same one bedroom apartment that is affordable, but it's also very lonely. So I think I waste too much money going out for dinner to have other people around me to have some socialization. Well, get some friends over the apartment, and let's knock out this credit card debt. Let's not go out for retail therapy or whatever we're doing. Let's just focus on knocking out the credit card debt. Because then you get to baby step three, where you work on a fully funded emergency fund, three to six months expenses. You'll likely do that about six months later. So what we're talking about here is likely a nine month, 10 month plan to where you have a fully funded emergency fund and no debt. George, let's give her a session with

one of our financial coaches. Oh, absolutely. Hang on the line. We'll get you connected and we'll cover the session for you because we want to see you win and get Hang on the line. We'll get you connected and we'll cover the session for you because we want to see you win and get back on your feet. So hang along. Christian will pick up. We'll get you scheduled. You can do this, Abby. You can do it. You've weathered a really difficult battle and you're still kicking. You got this. We're here to help. Hang on the line. We'll take care of you. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers.

Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the

visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell is alongside. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We'll go to Buffalo, New York. Sabrina is waiting for us. Sabrina, how can we help? Hi, guys. How are you today? Good. How are you? Good, good. Just kind of trying to get some advice on how to not live paycheck to paycheck anymore. My fiance and I bring in about $5,000 a month.

We have about $18,000 in credit card debt, and these cards are behind. We haven't made payments in a while. Why is that? Well, my fiance lost his job probably about two months ago. It took him about three weeks to start again, to start a new job. So that incurred us to kind of dip into our savings, to pay for our monthly expenses. Did you guys already combine finances? So we established each of us putting in about $1,000 a week. We both get paid biweekly. So we were paying about $4,000 a month in bills. And we had this conversation actually last week that now we need to contribute 100% of our paychecks

to try to get out of this hole. But it just doesn't seem reasonable with all of our expenses and we're living extremely paycheck to paycheck. We have about $100 in savings. What other debt do you have? About $100 in checking. We have about $18,000 in credit card debt.

But there's other stuff here. Yeah. My father-in-law was generous enough to take out a home equity loan for us to pay off our car loans. So we rolled our car loans together to try to lower that payment. So we owe him about $35,000. So he took out a HELOC in his name and then gave you the money? Yeah. Oh, boy. He paid off our car loans for us, and now we owe him that money. And we have about $185,000 in a home mortgage. Okay, what do you owe him? We owe our father-in-law about $35,000.

Goodness gracious. And the mortgage, you're both on the mortgage? No, just myself. And he's paying into it, helping you build equity, but you guys aren't married, but you sort of combine finances, but not totally. Do you feel how messy this is? Yeah, we were actually supposed to get married next week, but we postponed the wedding because financially we can't afford to do it. I got a great idea for you. You ready?

Mm-hmm. Go to the courthouse tomorrow. Yeah. We'll do a party later, but let's sort this out because part of this is it's very messy and we can't make progress when we're sort of halfway in this thing. You guys need to get officially married by the judge. It costs very little to nothing. Get the old marriage license. And to George's point, you guys got to fix this.

This thing is a mess waiting to happen. Yeah, it really is. And also, these cars are more than half of your annual income. So I think one or both of these cars needs to go. You need to sell it and then use that money to pay dad back, and then whatever's left, we buy beater cars. Yeah. That's part of the reason we're living paycheck to paycheck.

And also, why are you guys only bringing in 5K together? So I make about $67 a year. He makes about $58. So after taxes and health insurance, it's about $5,000 a month that we're bringing in. You're not paying 53% in taxes. Yeah. There's something fishy here.

Something's weird. You guys are over 100. You guys are, what, pushing 120 income? It's $125,000. $125,000. And you're taking home $60,000. It's not adding up. Are you guys investing at all? That's why it's confused. That's why I'm confused on what's happening. Well,'re taking home 60. It's not adding up. Are you guys investing at all? That's why it's confused. That's why I'm confused on what's happening. Like, why don't we have it? Well, we'll help you.

I'm going to tell you what's happening. You either don't know your numbers or he's not giving you the full picture of his. Something's just not adding up. And by the way, this is why we want you to be married and get all of the money into one account okay and then get on a budget and we're going to help you with that in just a minute okay but but first things first you guys don't know what the other one is doing and we're playing house and i'm not making a moral statement. This is a financial thing. And so you've got to get combined so that we can use the power of two pulling together.

But George is right. There's no way you guys are only netting $5,000 a month between the two of you. Are you guys investing at all into retirement accounts? I invest into my 401. I don't believe his company offers a 401. How much are you investing right now? What percent? 12%. Okay. Can I give you some help here on why you're living paycheck to paycheck? Yes. You're giving a lot of money to the investment account that should be going toward debt payoff.

To the tune of, are you ready for this? $8,000 a year is what you're currently investing. If you got that back in your check, you brought it down to zero, you'd have an extra almost $700 every single month. Could you breathe a little better with an extra $700 if I gave it to you? Absolutely. And now, what do the car payments add up to? Yeah. Car payments right now are about $340, excuse me, $460 a month. For both of them total? For two cars. Yeah. Okay. So let's take the $700 plus the $460 if we got rid of these car payments. Now you have almost $1,200. Do you see how you can breathe

again if you just knock some of these things out? And I'm guessing, let me jump in, George. Sabrina, I'm guessing that we're not talking about combined incomes right now. You guys are only putting $1,000 of your income towards this joint account. So if we take his full take home and your full take home and combine them, we're even better off, plus the $1, plus the 1100 or 1200 that George has found. Correct? Right. Right. Yeah. You guys aren't, you guys shouldn't be, you need to put 100% in. Right. But guess what? We're not struggling. We sell a car or two and you pull out that investment income that George told you, we got breathing room. We're rocking and rolling. So here's your homework. Figure out what you could sell these cars for at private party not what the dealership would trade it in for

because they're going to give you pennies on the dollar and then you're going to sell those cars private party with the money you get the proceeds the profits hopefully there are profits you buy yourselves two cheap cars like facebook marketplace four grand get an inspection a pre-purchase inspection on it for 100 bucks so you know you're not buying a lemon, and drive those as you then pay off the credit card debt. Because now we're making $125,000. We paused investing. We freed up the car payments. We have almost $1,200 to throw at the credit card debt.

Yeah. You see the momentum you just made in just one month? Yeah. So based on that math, you'll be at a credit card debt in less than a year, probably closer to six months with some intensity. And now we're married. We have combined incomes. We don't have any debt. Now we can work on a fully funded emergency fund. And from here on out, we're not going to take out another dime. We're not borrowing money from anyone for any

reason. Right. But the key to this, all of this, George, I want you to keep going here. I'm teeing you up. Okay. They got to get on a budget. The two of them, they got to get married and they got to get on a budget. So here's what that looks like. I'm going to gift you every dollar premium. We'll call it a wedding gift from Ken and I. See? And when you open it up, I want you and your fiance, once you're married, sit down and go, what is the paychecks coming in this month? Once we pause investing. All right, we're going to assign every single dollar a job in the expense category. What is the rent going to be? What's the utility bills? How much are we going to spend on groceries? The eating out budget is going to be zero because we are in a crisis right now. And

then beyond that, what do we have to cover? And anything else that's not in the budget, we don't buy. That's the hardest part is the budget forces you to have some discipline in your life instead of just sort of willy-nilly floating through going, wow, we made six grand. I don't know where it all went. Pretty crazy. And you two, how old are you two? I'm 36.

He's 39. Would you agree it's time we started being adults and went like, where do we want to be at 45, at 50? Absolutely. Do we want to be the 50-year-olds? I feel pretty shameful that I don't have anything to really show for it. No, we don't want you to feel any shame. We want you to just be motivated.

And real quick question, is the fiancé, how's he going to react to us telling you guys to go to the courthouse tomorrow? How's he going to react to that? Oh, he's all for it. He thinks that I want the big wedding. Sabrina, no, listen, you can have an amazing celebration after you're debt-free and the shrimp are paid for. Ha ha ha. There we go.

I love a good cash shrimp cocktail. There is no shame in financial freedom. So you're looking through the windshield now. That's what we're helping you look at. And so you've got to pick up the pieces, leave the baggage behind and say, where are we going? Five years from now, where do we want to be?

I'll tell you where they're going. To the courthouse. Booyah. Huh? Going to get that marriage certificate, put a ring on it. Sabrina's fiance. This is exciting. Hang on the line.

We're going to gift you every dollar. You guys are on your way. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. David is up next in Oklahoma City. David, how can we help today? Well, it's good to talk to you, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? Well, I've got a question. I am 60 years old, and I am starting to put together the pieces, thinking about retiring, hopefully in the next year or two. That's how I'm framing it right now. One of the pieces that I'm considering is that my employer has a pension and my projections that I've done so far indicate that I could have about an $1,800 a month benefit from that with 100% survival option for my wife.

Or I could elect to take a lump sum, which projection right now indicates it would be just under $300,000. So my question is, as I'm assessing the different pieces on this, would it be okay to just take the $1,800 and trust the annuity, or would it be smarter to consider taking the cash out lump sum as a direct rollover into a self-managed, self-directed IRA? Great question, David. You're thinking this through very wisely, and it sounds like you've done a great job. What does your total nest egg look like? How much of your world is this pension? Well, my 401k is a little under $900, and my wife will have a pension also in the two-ish per month range when she decides to retire.

That's probably a couple of years down the road, the way we're kind of planning it right now. You might retire first. That's possible, yes. Okay. Well, let's walk through sort of the math of it first, and then I want to talk about what's next for you and what retirement really looks like. So generally, we say you want to take the lump sum, and it's based on simple math. If you take the 300 grand into an IRA, it's going to grow at a greater rate than the pension, which is likely going to underperform probably around 6% or 7% on average, versus what we've seen in the market. If it's in the IRA, you could be making, you know, 9%, 10%, 11%. Right. And so the question is, the $1,800 a month, that's about $21,000 a year.

Could you make that or more if you just invested it on your own with more control, and you can pass that down to your heirs? Because the pension dies with you or, worst case, with your wife, right, with the 100% survivor benefit? That's correct. That's correct. Versus creating generational. Right. That's kind of the lump sum option, since it looked like that is a qualified plan that would allow me to do the direct rollover and avoid the tax penalty, so I could push all that over into a self-directed IRA. It seemed like that was the direction, but I wanted to make sure I was kind of thinking all the variables of the equation out as best I could. Let me just have some fun with this.

Let's put this. You said you're 60? Yes. Okay. Let's take the 300, George, on the lump sum. And George has got his investment calculator out, David. This is where this really becomes a super easy decision for you. So run those numbers.

Let's say 60 to 67. You just drop 300 grand in there. You don't touch it. I was going to say to 70. You want to say to 70? Well, let's ask you, David, you want us to run the numbers on what that 300 becomes in 10 years or seven years? You don't need this money. Or 15. Right? This is not money you need. As soon as you start retirement, you're not going to start withdrawing from it. The plan would be to not. Yes, that okay great so what let's say 70 let's just do 10 years what that what that 300k is so 10 years with a 10 return which is what we've seen on average for average annual returns for the s&p 500 you would have 812 000 in that account

so you made 212 grand on that in 10 years right and and that keeps me that that means i'm not losing money by just taking the annuity exactly now if you took the annuity 1800 bucks 21 grand 10 years it's 210 grand and so you know it's it's it could be apples to apples the difference is it's in your control and you're probably going to see greater returns over the long haul. And I guess that's probably the other part of it, is being able to control it and making sure it's not under, you know, it's a money that a third party controls and spends too many, and something that one day, oh, sorry, the pension had just gone bust.

Yeah, exactly. And people like annuities because it's guaranteed, and so if you're real spooked by the market, but as a guy who's been investing for a long time, you know that as long as you don't jump off the roller coaster when you get spooked, you're going to do better. I want to play this out a little bit more, David, because life expectancy. Let's jump that, George.

Let's take that $300,000, and let's do it in 20 years. Let's see what it looks like at $80,000. At $80,000, your results, $2.2 million. And again, the likelihood of you- That's my favorite sound right there. You probably don't need that much. I think David needs a cigarette. It's what he needs.

He's sitting back. He lit one up right there, an imaginary heater right there. He's like, $2.2 million. That's why I like that option david yeah i i i think that i think that sounds like the smart it seemed like that was the direction i was going but i i needed i needed a confirming a confirming sense that that was the right thing and it sure it sure sounds like that's the right thing to do awesome i'm with you it's what i would do personally david's It's what Dave Ramsey would do. And you've done a great job.

Again, this is not a life or make it or break it, life or death thing here, because you have other money sitting around. You've done a great job, and your wife's got the pension. You likely have Social Security on top of all that and some gravy. I love that sound he made. Woo-hoo! He needed a moment there. That's why we do what we do. Thanks for running those numbers,

George. Math is fun when it works in your favor. Yeah. It's like we can tell you or we can show you and George is always ready. You're like that investment calculator. You're like the quickest calculator in the West. You're like one of those new Western movies where George is always ready to go with the numbers. That's right. It's not as cool as being a real cowboy, but I'll take what I can get. Yeah, you're an investment cowboy. I like that. Wow.

That's what I'm going to call you. Changing my Twitter bio today. All right. Thanks, good. Greg is up next in Detroit, Michigan. Greg, how can we help? Hello. Hi, Greg.

How are you? Good. How can we help? Oh, I'm 67. My wife's 64. We're retired. And we're living off Social Security, and I'm also drawing some money out of our IRA every month, mostly for fun and paying off debt.

So at this point, we owe on our house, and that's about it. We owe $75,000. The house is worth about $300,000. My interest rate is 2.8%, so I've never been really keen on trying to get it paid off. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't seem like I would make more money leaving my money in savings. So what I want to do is my lease on my truck is coming due, and I want to either release fund or buy this truck out.

And my wife is not keen on me leasing. Why is that? Because it's, you know, over $600 a month. Because you married a smart woman was the answer, and she can do math. Right. Sure. What am I saving this money for? You know, I saved it all this time, and now I kind of want to spend some.

What are you making off Social Security? $4,200 a month between us. Okay. And then you're pulling out of the IRA for, like, fund money? Yeah, mostly. Okay. What's in the IRA? 900,000. Way to go. That's awesome. So why not just buy a cash car and pay off the house and just be done with all this? The spread is not, it's not going to be that much of a spread. You're saying, hey, I can make more if I invest it. I'm going to hang on to the lease.

Why not just fully enjoy this retirement completely debt-free? It lowers your monthly expenses, allows you to have more fun with less stress. So I would pay off my house for my savings as well? Yeah. How much do you have in savings? You're talking about the $900? No, I meant from the IRA. Yeah. Yeah. How much do you have in savings? You're talking about the 900? From the IRA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you took 75 out of the IRA, what would be the, do you want to buy this truck when you're done with the lease? Yes. I don't mind buying it. Yeah. Okay. So just figure out the buyout amount.

And if you really love it, it sounds like you guys can afford to do that and not decimate your nest egg that you've created along with social security. i would do the budget run it out and talk to your wife and say hey these guys on the radio convince me that we should pay off the house because it'll lower our expenses which is only going to give us more flexibility his wife's gonna love this and i'm done leasing let's just own it outright instead of pre-paying the depreciation i'm with your wife on this yeah and the monthly budget changes dramatically we know by 600 by $600. Plus the mortgage. Just for the car, plus the mortgage. Woo!

We got some fun money now. Oh, my goodness. It's that simple, folks. That's why they call him the Camel. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously.

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They created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. It is time for our question of the day here on the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. And our question today is brought to you by YRefi. Politicians make a lot of promises, and sometimes they may even keep one or two of them. But if you're in over your head with private student loans, don't rely on the government to rescue you. Contact

Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and gives you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Catherine in Colorado. My husband just finished his bachelor's degree in business administration and is considering going on for his MBA at age 53. He's in upper management position and feels like he won't continue to move up the ladder unless he gets this degree.

I've tried to tell him that he's well-liked at his company and has made it quite far without it, but he has it in his head that he'll be stuck where he is forever. He already has significant student loans, which we will be paying

into retirement. We do not have any investments, so other than a small pension each, we will rely on Social Security when we retire.

What say you about going on for his MBA? Yay or nay? Nay. Nay. Nay. Nay. Nay.

There it is. How else can I say it? I mean, that's all I got. I can't get any more clear on this. First of all, he's not stuck. The MBA at this stage of his life at 53, it's not like it's going to open up opportunities for him based on a, well, I got this education, it gets me in. The MBA itself doesn't guarantee success. It certainly is a requirement in certain positions. But at this stage, given their situation, my goodness, they've

got student loans, George, that they're already under the impression they're going to have to pay these all the way into retirement. And I'm so saddened by this email question. I'm sad. This is a bummer. We're just going to live off of Social Security. Tiny pension, Social Security, and we're going to go further into debt. Clearly, they don't have the money to pay for the MBA. If I'm in his shoes, if the company wants to pay for me to get an MBA because it's

going to benefit the company, then go for it if they're paying for it. But do not pay for this yourself thinking it's going to move you up the ladder or that you're stuck. You're already in upper management. So just excel in what you do and find other ways to learn and grow that don't involve going into debt. You can upskill without an MBA. And at this point, he's in the industry. He's done very well at this company. And so what he needs to be thinking about right now is his lateral movements that will allow me to eventually go vertical or straight vertical movement with some other company. But you're operating on fear here. I see a lot of fear in this email. I see a lot of doubt in this email. And fear and doubt cloud us from making good decisions. You cannot make a good decision when you've got this fear that I'm stuck at 53. I'm stuck. Well, then, George, what happens is, and you see this a lot and you talk about this a lot with financial decisions that people make in your book,

Breaking Free from Broke. Desperation leads us to poor financial decisions. And in this case, make no mistake about it, it is being couched as a professional decision, but this is a financial decision only. This MBA is not going to make him more valuable. So now it is a pure financial decision with the hope that it pays off in more income. And I'm just telling you, it's really risky. Nay, nay, nay. I would be about the business of knocking out the student loans with the income you have. Sounds like you guys make good money. You just have been squandering it, probably due to lifestyle and hanging on to this debt as it accrues interest. So you're 53. I want to see these student loans

gone in the next few years and then start stacking up for retirement, get the emergency fund there. Sounds like they've been living in the paycheck to paycheck cycle for way too long. Well, again, we've got a couple here who have resigned themselves to, we're going to be paying off student loans into retirement and all we're going to be doing that with social security. I got to tell you something. I'm not trying to be unkind, but the idea of paying off my student loans with Social Security payments makes me want to jump off a bridge. Well, the numbers came out, Ken. The average Social Security payment as of May or August of 2024 was, you want to guess? I bet you'll be close. I'm going to say, is this individual or a couple? This was just the average payment.

Didn't say. Just the average payment that the Social Security office paid out. I'm going to say $2,200. You're very generous. It was $1,900. Oh. So we're talking about poverty level living here. I know.

With the average payment. And some people make way less than that with Social Security, depending on what they've paid into it. $1,900. This is not a retirement plan. And by the way, we don't know that the Social Security Administration is going to be, we don't even know if that's going to be solvent. We've seen scary stats that by the time I see it, if I ever do, it's going to be at a far reduced rate. So, Catherine, I can smell, by the way you framed this question, you do not want them to pursue this.

I think you guys should pursue the Ramsey plan instead, and your income will go up over time, naturally. Let's go to Josh, who's waiting on the line in Salt Lake City. Josh, how can we help today? Yeah, I just kind of got myself into a little bit of a pickle and kind of, you know, entertained different ideas of how to get myself out here. Okay. So I got myself a HELOC back in, you know, good old days of 2020 with the good rates. I got my house loan down to a 2.375 on a 20-year loan.

We only have 16-year loan left. But my HELOC is now sitting at $100,000 at 9.5%. So what I've done with that was I actually quit my job and kind of started up my own thing doing a service company. So I took some of that HELOC to help me get started with that business, and the business has been going for about two years now. We kind of, you know, we're plateauing because of this interest rate. I'm paying almost $900 a month in interest only on that HELOC.

So what I've done is I've reached out last year to a capital to credit kind of type of company. They got me about $50,000 in credit cards through the business. We did a balance transfer at 0%. Josh, you keep thinking debt is the next answer to get you out of debt. You understand that? I know. You're correct. Yeah, and I got to get out of this cycle before, you know.

So what is your next step? If you didn't call today, what were you about to do? Get another credit card and transfer more over. Trying to keep that repetitiveness, unfortunately. I've tried to look around to see small business loans at an even higher percentage than my HELOC. Josh, zoom out. Have an out-of-body experience.

Look down at Josh from above and tell him debt is not the next answer. Another credit card, a balance transfer, a HELOC is not going to solve Josh's problems. What you need is income. Yeah. Has it occurred to you that you need to make more money or spend less? Yeah. Well, we definitely need to spend less. But to get out of this, you've got to get some margin.

So what's your total consumer debt? With the HELOC and the two credit cards, without the truck, we're sitting at $130. Without the truck? Why'd you say without the truck? Well, yeah, I mean, with the truck, you know, we're paying $600 a month on the truck. No, what's the total debt? What is the truck loan left? About $30 left on the truck. so we got $160,000 sitting here. What's the household income?

Okay, so here's the deal. I'm going to move this HELOC into your baby step six debt, and I want you to aggressively attack the other 60 using the debt snowball method. Do you have any money in savings? I do have a cash value life insurance. It has about $20,000 in it that's available. So if you surrendered that policy and got out of it, number one, because it's a trash product, what would you get out of it if you surrendered?

I'd probably say, you know, minus their fees and everything, probably about, well, it's sitting at about 26 right now, so about 2018. Okay. And could that knock out some of those smaller debts you have? Some of the credit cards? Yes, I only have the two credit cards, and I got those credit cards to transfer the HELOC balance over because... I think we're done using the only language. I only have two credit cards. I only have...

I think we're done. There's no more need to justify... I had zero until I got those two, so besides the HELOC. And here's the deal. You're going to run this business completely debt-free, and if you can no longer keep this business running to where it's profitable, we need to find you a better full-time gig. And the key is you're not going to file bankruptcy, no more balance transfers. You need to get your income up, your expenses down, and use the margin

to knock out the debt. And get term life insurance in place before you cancel the crappy whole life policy. And call us back if you need help. Oh, and catch the rest of the show in the Ramsey Network app if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. the rest of the show in the Ramsey Network app. That's right. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast. If you're on radio, it's going to keep coming your way. For the rest of you, you've got to get it on the Ramsey app. Get it in the App Store or Google Play.

This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number for you to jump in to get coached up is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm thrilled to be joined by the one, the only, the incomparable, the astute, the illustrious, George Camel, ladies and gentlemen. That's Camel with a K. You hit your $10 word count for the day, Ken. That's right. So now I can just talk like a normal person.

We're going to do that with Jennifer in Washington, D.C. Jennifer, how can we help today? Hi, good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm a little nervous, sorry. You're doing great. Basically, my husband and I, we feel like our life is starting again because we're finally done with our bankruptcy. Oh, all right.

Well, hey, let's celebrate that. When did you get out of that? Uh, this month. So how long ago did you file? Uh, it was five years ago. My goodness. It was, um, 115,000 we took care of in the five years. And we have, while doing that, been able to do baby steps one through three.

Good. So you have no debt. You have a fully funded emergency fund. What's next for you? Well, we have what's left on the house, which is $270,000. We bring in $1. And three main things going on. I've never put anything in a retirement fund. Two is there's about 150,000 in-house repairs that are upcoming. And three is we only have one vehicle and it's 17 years old and there's five of us. Wow. A lot going on. How old

are the kids? 10, 18, and 20. So the 18 and the 20 year old plus you and your hubs are all sharing a car? Yes. Well, the 18 and 20 year olds are still getting their permit. They haven't gotten the full license yet, but they want to be able to get it so they can drive and get a job. Okay. All right. All right. So how much do you guys have saved outside of the emergency fund for the house repairs or for the car fund?

We're at $8,000. Okay, good. And are you splitting those up? Like how urgent? $250,000 in repairs doesn't sound feasible. It doesn't sound like it's worth doing. Well, it was 150. 150.

150 in repairs needed. What's the house worth? In this neighborhood, it's probably six. Are they, of the 150, I know where George is going. I'm going there too. Yeah. What's, what is it? The main thing is the foundation. That's going to be 40,000. There's major foundation issues. They've got to redo it, basically.

Is this worth doing? Is it worth just kind of selling as is, getting out of it, instead of living in a construction zone and dropping $150,000? Well, my husband does not want to leave it as is or worse than how we got it, biblically. That's a noble thing to do, but you guys don't have the money to do these repairs. And if they're urgent, I don't think you're going to be able to swing it. So how urgent is this? Is it dangerous? No, no, I don't think so. There's just some big cracks. We have an unfinished basement, so we see the large cracks coming along. You know, there's three or four of them.

So what has to be done? What is the number one priority that has to be done, let's say, within the next 12 months? The foundation, and then if the vehicle dies okay so let's say we have a sinking fund no pun intended for 40 grand for the foundation repair and we have a different sinking fund for the cars uh you said you have 8 000 that sounds like plenty enough to get you another car right now he was wanting a 20 000 uh specific vehicle that he's been looking at. Okay. Does he understand that you have nine priorities at once, including zero in retirement? Yeah.

Buying a $20,000 car is a luxury reserved for those who can drop $20,000 on a car and not derail their other financial goals. And so if I'm the man, this is just me, if I'm the man of the house and I go, the house is falling apart, we have one car, we also have nothing in retirement saved, I'm going to go, you know what? The other $12,000 I would have spent on this car is better spent repairing this home. Right. Okay. So I mean, does he have any retirement?

He does. He has 60. 60,000? And how old are you two? I'm 50. He's 64. What is his plan to retire one day when his body says, I can't do this anymore? It already says that. We are actively trading. What do you mean? We actively um stock traders and option traders on the side okay how is that working for you uh it's not bringing in the extra than what it costs currently any side hustle that causes you to lose money is not a side hustle

we're part-time gambling right now for fun. Well, there's no question. You guys are speculating. That's what this is. Okay. I would say this on the kids, too, while I'm thinking about it. The 18- and 20-year-old, they need to figure it out. They are of working age.

They need to buy their own cars. You guys, that's not even in the picture for you all. So they can, they can figure out a way to scrap $5,000 together and they can get a car that'll get them from point A to point B. They're not even driving at this point anyway. So put the kids' cars over there. Um, have you had an expert come out, multiple different experts on the foundation? I'm coming back to that. Have you had multiple experts come out and look at that and give you an honest appraisal of how bad it is? We had one company come out for the foundation. We had a company come out for windows and then for siding and they're like, yeah,

do the foundation first. Yeah, I know. But I mean, I guess my point is, is I think I haven't heard anything yet that tells me that there's some safety issues and massive problems just because there's some cracks. And so if I would want to know more, if I was in their shoes, George, I would be doing more on the foundation to find out how bad is it. Because I think the car, I think the car is the biggest issue. Get them some basic transportation. And you have the money to do that. The $8,000 is separate from your emergency fund, you said? It is.

Okay, so this would be my game plan for you guys because we have a minute left. I would be investing 15% of your incomes, both of you, into retirement accounts. Beyond that, I would buy a car worth that $8,000 so that you have two vehicles. Now we're at square one with saving for the foundation repair, and I would go, all right, let's say 10 months from now, we want to pay for this 40 grand repair. That's four grand a month. Can we do that? I'm guessing you guys bring home about nine or 10 grand. Yes. Okay. Can we live off five? I hope the answer is yes. If they stop speculating on the... If you stop using this to trade i think the answer is yes okay if we get on a every dollar budget and we go right we make 10 grand can we find four or more

to cover this foundation repair 10 months from now and then we're going to automatically transfer four grand to a high yield savings account every single month so that in 10 months come hell or Okay. floundering. We lost some money stock trading. We didn't really invest enough to make a dent. We still don't have a second car. I think it's time to get on a plan. He's 64. We're not 22 stock trading online. We gotta grow up. No $20,000 car is in the future right now. I hope it is one day, but it's not today.

And I, by the way, I'd leave the windows and siding up to somebody else if I'd sell it eventually. I'd get out of this pit. I would too. Not worth it. Too old to be messing around with that. All right.

Thank you for the call. We're rooting for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside, and we're here to take your calls. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

St. Paul, Minnesota is where we go next to help out Matt. Matt, what's going on? Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. I could just use a little life advice here in a transition period. I just graduated with a master's degree in business intelligence and data analytics, applying for jobs, careers. I'm wondering if it would be advantageous to do some consulting, you know, where I should focus my time and efforts to, you know, continue to be financially independent and successful in the future.

Do you have some consulting opportunities available to you? Yes, I do. And I'm active in networking and attending chamber of commerce events and meetups. Well, I would absolutely take the closest thing to the space that I want to be in. So you've got a very specific degree and focus. Sounds like that's where you want to go. You've been applying. You haven't found anything yet, which, by the way, the job market has shrunk. So I don't want you to feel too badly about yourself because we're seeing the data now that people coming out of college like you with a master's degree,

there are less jobs available than there were a year or two ago. That's just the facts. What we're seeing is major corporations are, I think, in a holding pattern to see what happens in this election. They've also been in a holding pattern to see what the Fed will do. And so the Fed has dropped rates. And so I think it's going to be probably a quarter or two before we see more definitive signs about what the job market looks like. So I just wanted to caution you that you are in a much more competitive job market than, say, someone who comes out in your space with your degree a couple years ago. I want to make sure you understand that. So you're going

to have to be patient and persistent. So to that end, I would absolutely take the consulting opportunities. If they're there for you, I would take what you can get right now because it gets you active, you're making money, and it sounds like the consulting work is adjacent or pretty related to what you want to do. Is that true? Yes. Absolutely. Take the opportunity right now.

How rock solid are these opportunities? Is it just like a buddy who said, I might have a consulting gig, or is this like, hey, we're ready to sign a contract? So I've been doing consulting with one of my high school friends. It's not quite in the healthcare field where I have more experience. It's in food and beverage manufacturing, but it's something right. And it pays. What are you making?

I haven't sent him a bill yet. I've done seven hours of work and it's. Does he know what you charge? No, it's kind of a friend kind of situation. Do you know what you charge? No, I don't. Matt, this isn't even real. Let me go back for a second.

If you bill this guy for $1,000, is he going to say, what, he didn't say you were going to charge me? Was there an agreement that he would? It's a friend-to-friend situation friend situation okay but let's go back okay that's that's not a real thing so i'll get to that in a minute george i know you want to camp out on that but i want to go back you said at the start of the call should i pursue some consulting opportunities and i asked you are these things sitting there ready to go and you you gave me the impression, yes. I want to go back to those. What are those opportunities? Well, the one main one is through my friend.

It's not set up, you know, we don't have a firm agreement or whatnot. Okay, so the one opportunity that you said is available to you is the one we just talked about with the friend? Yes. That's not an opportunity. You guys don't even know what you're doing. You haven't told him what you're charging. You don't have any kind of agreement.

So this isn't a thing. What are you doing to pay the bills this week? What income do you have? I don't. Okay, what income do you have i don't okay what expenses do you have fortunately i i have fortunately i've worked in the north Dakota oil fields for 10 years and uh saved up money for that so um i have a nice bag of maybe 60,000 okay so you're living off of that do you have any debt no okay well the good news is you've got but you're living off of that. Do you have any debt? No. Okay. Well, the good news is you've got, but you're going to run through the 60 pretty quick. I mean, that's not a sustainable idea. I'd rather see you get out there and get some work.

So what have you been doing as you've been applying for these roles? What's the application process? You getting any interviews? I've gotten a few. I mostly use LinkedIn, other, Indeed, ZipRecruiter. But like you were talking about, it's really flooded with applicants. So I'm trying to spend my time making personal connections in networking groups in the area. What can you do right now for some income while we're still continuing to connect and apply with where you got this master's degree? But what can you be doing right now for money? $20, $25, $30 an hour. What can you do right now? Great question. So what I've been considering is possibly buying a Tesla and... No, no, no, no, no.

Don't do it. Terrible idea. I don't even understand what that has to do with my question. I said, what can you do for $25, $30? You're going to buy a Tesla and then rent it out on Turo? No, no, I would be the driver. You're going to do Uber and a Tesla? Yes.

That's a horrible idea. Why would you want to drive Uber? Why? I live in a fluent area and you can pick and choose which clients you... Do you have a car right now? No. Well, I do, yes.

Why can't you use your car if you're going to do Uber? Why do you need to go buy a $35,000 Tesla that you're going to crush with depreciation by driving it around town all day? Correct. The vehicle that I have currently is too old. Okay. Can you upgrade in vehicle if you wanted to? With cash.

Could I upgrade if I were to upgrade? If you sold your car and you bought some with cash. Yeah, but I think this is still not the solution. No, this is, Matt, what did you get your master's degree in? Let's walk back through this. It's in business intelligence and data analytics in the healthcare field. Right. So when I asked you that question, your answer should have been related to that.

I can do some basic data analytics. I can do some contract work. That's the stuff you're looking for. That's when you said consulting. I thought, well, if you can get some initial kind of entry-level consulting gigs, which I don't know your world, but I know that exists for a lot of graduate-level students, they can do some kind of entry-level consulting for a firm or something. That's what I was thinking.

But, Matt, you've got to be – you went to school for this, and I don't even care if it's health care at this point. What can you be doing that gets you in and it's a lot less competitive? I don't know the answer. Do you? Right. So, well, instead of spending my time applying for jobs, I was thinking about I started a business and putting a website out there, getting it on Google and having pretty much flipping the tables and having companies come to me.

To do what? What are you offering? Data analytics, business intelligence. Have you ever done any data analytics or business intelligence for anybody and you got a paycheck besides your friend who we already know that situation? You have? Yes. Fortunately, I'm 37 and I've had many, like 20 different employers in the past. Okay.

Matt, I'm going to tell you something. I feel like we're chasing our tail a little bit. And so I'm going to stop trying to pull it out of you. You have got to get more aggressive. This is not a LinkedIn. Indeed, I'm just going to throw my name out there because you've already acknowledged that it is a very competitive market. You have got to make good connections. I'm going to do my best. I'm going to give you a copy of my book called The Proximity Principle, which if you read it and do it, it's going to give you the best opportunity to get a job. But you've got to start doing it the right way, not the way everybody else does it.

But you've got to leverage that skill. A 37-year-old with a master's degree and a long line of work now that I didn't realize you were 37. George, this is about intentionality right here, not just, well, I'll just kind of ride the wave and use my $60,000, or I'll buy a Tesla and then drive around and do Uber. I'm not knocking Uber, but he's well past Uber stage. Yeah. You need to do something with your degree tomorrow. And in the meantime, you've got to pay the bills, do what you've got to do,

but don't go venturing off and spending a bunch of money on something that you're not going to sink your teeth into. We tried that. Yeah. So I'd find all the people you know from the last 15 years you've been working and find someone who can get you an in and get that resume to the top of the stack. And at this point, lower level data analytics at this point, if that's what it takes to get in, then we can move up. All right. Good stuff, George, as always. I'm going to have to think about that one during the commercial break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Excited to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. And we are here for you. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

All right, folks, we've been talking about this for a while. You know we're doing our very first Live Like No One Else cruise. It's setting sail March 22 through 29, 2025. George has already got his baggie full of sunscreen. He's ready to go. I'm an SPF 50 guy. Yeah, you really are. And this is going to be a fun cruise george

turks and caicos puerto rico saint thomas and the bahamas on holland america's um super super fancy ship i can't even say what this is called what is this i think it's new stottendam new stottendam beautiful ship this is a premium cruise of course it's all inclusive so the food room service you know top of the line. We're talking spas. You got pickleball courts for Ken. That's right. Everything.

Fitness center, a lounge, hot tubs, greenhouse spa and salon. Between the pickleball and the spa, that's where you'll find me if anybody cares. And nobody does, but that's where you'll find me. Sad because it's true.

Well, listen, I'm predictable, okay? And all the Ramsey personalities, including George and I, will be there, as well as some other great celebrity guests like singers Deanna Carter, Stephen Curtis Chapman, comedian Trey Kennedy, and world-class chef Manit Chauhan, and more. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise to get your deposit in. You don't have to pay at all right now. And I'm told here by my crack talking points that 90% of the cabins are full.

So it is going to sell out. You don't want to miss this fabulous trip. Which place are you most excited about going to, George? I'm going to say St. Thomas. You just made that up. No, St. Thomas sounds like the place I want to go. I've been there. It's a U.S. Virgin Island, and so I've been there.

It's nice. All right. How about you, Turks and Caicos? Yeah. I haven't been there, and I hear nice things. We call it T and C in the biz. I just wanted to get a rise out of you. You got me.

I didn't see that coming. I can't wait. When we get off the boat, I'm going to be like, George, we're here. That's cruise talk. At TNC. I love it. Steve is up next in Orlando, Florida. Steve, how can we help? Hey, how you doing? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I am a 66-year-old male. My wife is 62. I'm retired. I did start collecting Social Security about a year and a half ago.

My question is, I have $1.4 million saved. The problem is I had a financial person pre-COVID that had me take out like a line of equity from my portfolio to buy a house. I now have the house. I'm 100% debt free, no car payments, no house payments, nothing. But I have this money that I do live on and I pretty much get $5,000 a month put into my account to live on plus my social security, but I have this $400,000 debt. My question is, I feel I should pay that off. I know it would bring me down and it might make things a little more difficult. I'm just wondering what your feelings and thoughts are about. Are you still working with this person? No. I got rid of them. I went with a new person, and the lady I'm with now, she's from Wells Fargo, but she's been doing pretty good.

I've had her for almost a year. My portfolio has stayed the same. She is paying down on my debt, but at 6%, $400,000, that's a lot of money in interest I pay. Why is your financial advisor paying down your debt? Because it comes out of my portfolio on the money she's making for me. So she makes that payment because it's through their institution. Oh boy. So what you'd have to do is, out of your $1.4 million, you would need to take out $400,000 to pay this off and be done with it? Correct.

Okay, and you're saying that would take you down to a million? Correct. And then what other money do you have? I have like $80,000 in bank accounts that I have on the side. If something happens, I'm running short of something, I can... So that's your emergency fund plus some? Correct cash reserves okay anything else right what about your wife no my wife isn't collecting social security yet because if you collect social security uh with the obamacare and her insurance it just goes to insurance where by controlling how much i make or take from

my fund i get a little bit of assistance through the government because you know obamacare is predicated on how much you make okay so could you still live if you paid off this debt what would your income be and could you live on that? It would depend on what my investments are making. So you would need to withdraw from the investments every month in order to make that work, and then you have a little bit of Social Security. What does that amount to? About $1,500 a month because the other $250 goes toward Medicare. Okay, and what are your monthly expenses?

None other than your daily expenses. I would say on the average, probably $700 a month, $750. That includes food, utilities, insurance, everything? Well, then you got to add like your house insurance every year is about $1,800. Your taxes every year is about $4,000. Your car insurance every year is about, you know, $2,000. Exactly. So if you created sinking funds in a budget where you said, all right, I got to put away a little bit every month to cover those, what would then your expenses amount to? It's going to be more than $700. Yeah, it would be.

If you added those up, it would probably be more like $3,500 a month because, you know, those are big bills down the road. Okay, I don't think the math is adding up here. Here's what I would do, Steve. I would not work with Wells Fargo, these giant bank corporations. I don't know if you've just Googled Wells Fargo in the past five years. Not a great history of treating customers well. And what I would do is jump on ramsaysolutions.com, click on trusted services, and you'll see the SmartVestor program there. And I would connect with a financial advisor through that program who can actually look at this through a kind of a Ramsey lens instead of a lens of, hey, how can we collect a bunch of money off of Steve and put him further into debt for as long as he's alive?

Not a fan so far of what advisors have done for you. Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of is that I'm staying in debt and not clearing it up. And, you know, sooner or later, it's going to catch up to me. Yeah. Well, they can crunch the numbers for you and go, all right, if we get the portfolio down to a million, here's what you could conservatively spend out of this. And they might say, all right, you could withdraw, you know, let's say it's $50,000 a year. That becomes four grand a month added to your social security. Well, now we can live. We got a good plan here. Okay. Okay.

And so I would jump on ramseysolutions.com and get in touch with the SmartVestor program. And I hope that helps. It's hard to crunch all the numbers here to tell you what to do, but my A1 for you is to get rid of all debt, lower all of your expenses and go into debt. Instead of going backwards, going further into debt, it almost sounds like an annuity where there's, he paid in, I don't know if it's an actual line of credit. It sounds like an annuity where it's an insurance contract with guaranteed payments and you paid a lump sum for that. So what's the trap here in this particular call? I'm not picking on Steve at all, but what's the trap that gets him into this situation? Working with advisors that don't have your best interest. I'm guessing there was some fat commissions on the other side of this. And you got to remember

that advisors work for you, Steve. So they don't tell you what to do. They might make recommendations, but it's based on your goals. So if your goal is, hey, I want to get debt-free, stay debt-free. Exactly. Then they should not be recommending, hey, what if you took out a line of credit? Right. That would really set you up. It feels like they're calling the shots. And we want everybody to call their own shots.

And in that interview process, you know, with that smart investor pro person, you are sitting there and you want to make sure that they can explain to you everything that they are recommending. Yes. To the point that you understand it and go, I think I you want to make sure that they can explain to you everything that they are recommending. Yes. To the point that you understand it and go, I think I might want to go this direction. And so it just feels to me like he's a pawn. That's what that felt like. And he hasn't dug in enough.

They haven't explained it well enough. And I hate to say they took him to the cleaners because there's definitely a way out of this. But I would definitely drop whoever he has and find someone more trustworthy. Yeah. Good advice, George. Good stuff. All right. George is going to gargle with some salt water to rest his throat up.

Thank you. And we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Colossians 3, verse 17.

And whatever you do, in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him. Our quote today from my old boss, John Maxwell. The reality is that you will never get much done unless you go ahead and do it before you are ready. There you go. I should have done it in his voice. You can do a great John

Maxwell impression? I do a pretty good John Maxwell. Dang. Alright, we'll save that for off air. Yeah, we'll save that. It's a free show. You can't give it to him. I'm not going to drop those kind of nuggets on people that aren't going to pay for it. Come on. Jackie is up in Denver, Colorado. Jackie, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I live in Denver, Colorado, and are both 42 years old. We got married last year, and I now have two beautiful stepchildren. We split everything

evenly. Thank you. We split everything evenly and approach the family as one. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down. Tell us what that means. I think I know what that means, but what does that mean? We do everything. We put it all in like one pot and we divvy it up from there. Like we do the household.

So combined finances, one checking account, everyone's checks go in there, all bills come out of that account. Oh, okay. When you said split it evenly, I didn't know what that meant. Okay. Oh, no. So I make around $85,000 a year, and my husband recently started making about $186,000. Oh, good. Awesome. Great. Great. We don't have any debt right now. No student debt, no credit card debt. Our household income is about $10,000 a month. We stick to our budget very closely each month. I recently left my job though. And so per the policy of the hospital, because they were doing a match, I have a 401A because I work for a public hospital and a 457.

And so my takeaway from that would be $25,000. Right now, we currently owe $15,000 on my car, and the blue book value is $8,000. And my husband owes $14,000 on his truck. My question essentially is, we owe $530,000 on our home, and our home does need some work. But with the $25,000 we will be receiving if I close out those accounts, do we pay off our cars and start the next steps? Do I just pay the car down to $8,000 and then try to turn it in because I'm paying off the $7,000 that it's upside down? I'm confused why you're talking about withdrawing from your retirement account early. Yeah. With penalties and fees.

Correct. Terrible idea. I would not do that at all. And the other thing you said that confused me is you said we bring 10 grand home a month. Yep. You just told me you have 271. We spend $10,000 a month. Our budget for the household is 10, like 10 with all of our bills. Are you bringing in closer to $15,000, $16,000 a month? I think $15,000 or $16,000. And I have a quick question because your income is now gone. So what you told us is what it was before you walked, right? Yes, and then I'll start a new job like next week,

and then I'll be making around that. Okay, we didn't know that. Oh, okay. So it's a quick guess. Sorry, my apologies. No worries. You're doing great. Okay, we're caught up.

I'm not on the radio every day. You're doing great. Okay. We're caught up. Okay. I'm not on the radio every day. You're doing wonderful. You're doing a great job. Here's the question. Do you, can you spend less than $10,000 a month if you guys were on a budget and you went, all right, what do we actually have to cover between the mortgage and our bills? She said they're on a tight budget. We're on a pretty tight budget.

So the kids. 10 grand feels like a lot for a just bare bones budget oh my husband's sitting next to me and he said eight grand he corrected me okay all right so now it's about eight let me tell you that just the napkin math here if you're bringing home 16 and your expenses are eight you should have eight left over if you're doing a budget to cover the underwater equity on the car and get rid of it to pay off his truck and so here's what i would do talking in a matter of just a few months yeah and all those talking like one check and you can sell this car if you want to i think you just pay off the car and keep them you guys

have an incredible income i would pay off both cars uh and then wait until you tackle the mortgage until baby step six so don't touch the retirement. You can roll them over and do a direct rollover to an IRA, but I don't want you seeing this money. Okay. So I'm just paying off the cards. And then in terms of things like, you know, the house just, we're hoping to move at some point, the kids are getting older. We just need more like physical square footage in our home. We haven't like, we only have a 2.5% interest rate on our house. We bought our house two years ago, but we're hoping to get a nicer neighborhood. I have an opinion on this. I want to weigh in on this. And George, I'm curious what you think. Jackie, I would only do the things that add more

value to the home. I wouldn't do everything and go, oh, we need to fix it up. I would actually talk to a really good real estate pro and I would go, okay, these are the 12 changes that we're thinking about making. How many of these are actually going to move the needle significantly? In other words, if I spend money on it, it's got a really good return on that spend. Okay. And where is that money coming from? Is that just like from a monthly savings? Same thing George just told you. How much do you guys have in savings right now?

Just cash? Not like cash. I think we have 12,000. So here's the deal. You almost could pay off the car loan with 12,000. Now the good news is your next check it's gone right so just based on napkin math if you never touch the savings you put 7200 bucks toward the cars it's done in four months both cars paid off okay then we take the same 7200 plus the car payments we freed up and we build a fully funded emergency fund maybe for you guys

if you said your expenses are eight grand you you multiply that by five or six, we're talking 40, 50 grand in there. Okay. And so a few months after that, we'll say five months, six months, you have a fully funded emergency fund, worst case, six months. Now we can begin piling up money for investments. We can pile up money for repairs that need to be done. But to Ken's point, I wouldn't just sink money into this home because people get, they go crazy when they start renovating and repairing their home. And they end up going,

oh my gosh, we spent 150 grand and we took out a HELOC and we decided we need a pool because the kids are only going to have so much more time. You start to just go insane with this stuff. So to Ken's point, do your research,

do your homework, work with an agent. If you're going to sell it to go, what do we need to do to get this home ready to sell? And here's why uh jackie and george someone else will come in and buy that house and they're going to do what they want with it anyway so they're going to hate the cabinet color you chose yeah so it's like why do all that if you're not going to be there long term

i would do like but for instance let's say that uh there was a key bathroom or something that really had some issues with it. You know, I'm giving an example, you know. Sure. But it's like to truly renovate it when you're going, I think I'd like to be out of here in two years or less. I just wouldn't do much. If it's falling apart. That's kind of our goal.

Yeah. I've got to tell you, I would be socking money away for the down payment on the next house. Okay. Or, you know, whatever you would do to the next home. You know, if you sell this one, what kind of equity do you have in it? I think we bought it for $570, and I think it's like $530 is left on it. Okay, so not much. You'll probably walk away just breaking even on this thing.

So that, now even more so, I'm taking that opinion, George. I'm not making many upgrades to this current home. Yeah, I wouldn't sink a lot of money into this if you know it's not where you want to be. Yes, it's not. Certainly not. We bought it. It was our first home, and we made it home. We did our best, but it doesn't work for us, and we need something that like a backyard for the kids and things like that. So, um, you know, I w I would then, I would just stack cash, not do many improvements. And

then whatever little bit you walk away with, you've got a down payment to, to upgrade. Awesome. Okay. Wow. I was wrong. I keep pushing for the other thing. My husband keeps telling me to calm down. You keep pushing for calm down, Jackie i want new bathrooms we need to yeah it is the kitchen floor by the way by the way totally get that and there's nothing wrong with that you you want to fully make it your nest but it's not the nest long term so why put any effort into it exactly i right and you know that's his argument all of the time well i gotta tell you i'm just gonna turn around and move what's his name, Jackie? He's sitting right next to you. Lonnie. Lonnie. Lonnie. Can he hear us? He can. Lonnie's right. Lonnie, you are right,

my friend. It's rare that a man is right in his own home. He's vindicated. That's why, listen, trust me, I know. I've got a wife, a daughter, and two other teenage boys, and I'm never right about anything except for when I'm on the show, George. And even then, George corrects me a lot. Fun. It's a lot of fun. I like Lonnie. He's a good man. Listen to Lonnie. He's a good man.

Listen to Lonnie. You guys are on the path. You have a great income, and your greatest wealth-building tool is that income. So use it wisely and avoid debt. Yep. It's good advice. Get rid of it. You would think more people would follow it.

It's so simple that it's like, duh, and yet here we are, record levels of consumer debt. You should do a TikTok on that right there. Tens and tens of people will like it. It's not what the kids want to hear, Ken. No, they don't want it. I'm the youngest living boomer out here telling people to live debt-free. You're a good man. Thank you, America, for listening.

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