The Ramsey Show - App - You Bought A Car With 27% Interest?! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. This hour, it's a free call at 888-825-5225. And if you're Rachel, it's a toll-free call. There's no toll whatsoever. That was actually Ken Coleman. Sure.

I said it once on accident. It's happened to the best of us. It's a free call. Do you remember back in the day, though, George? You had to pay. You had to pay for a long distance. We're about the same age. Free nights and weekends.

Remember when that was the deal? Great. Rachel had to call uphill both ways. It was a very difficult life for her at the payphone in elementary school calling Sharon. In the airports too. Wow. Little Rachel in the airport using the payphone.

That's a visual. Well, Alec is going to kick us off in Kansas City. Alec, how can we help you today? Alright. So So I have about 18 grand in total debt that I have consolidated. Well, not necessarily consolidated, but that I've totaled from my car loan to people that I owe to medical bills, college, all that. So recently, my roommate has told me that if I can't pay the rent, then he's not going to let me live here anymore. So I'm trying to get squared away so that I can get back on track. Okay. So this 18K, you said it is a consolidated loan? It's all one giant loan now? No, it's not.

I misspoke. It's everything that I've totaled up. Got it. So you have a car loan, medical debt, student loan, and a personal loan or multiple that you owe to random people? Yes. Okay. Are you having trouble making your rent? Yes.

I wasn't having trouble before, and then i made a stupid decision which i thought was going to make me more money but what was that i was i was i was making you know stable monthly paycheck and then i had off i had an offer from a friend to work for him and uh it didn't pan out i didn't get paid by him for four weeks. So now I'm looking for new work. So you quit your stable job? Would they take you back? It's a possibility, but I'm not entirely sure because I talked to somebody that I used to work with

and he said the positions had already been filled. What were you doing and what were you making? I worked at a cabinet shop. I worked as a trimmer so i sanded the cabinets and i put the edge profiles on them and stuff like that okay and what were you making uh on in the slow season i was making about five hundred dollars uh a week okay so two000 a month in the slow season? Yeah, and that's been for like the last five months. And in high season, what would you be making? Maybe around $700 a week.

Okay, so that's $2,800. Yes. Can you go just get a retail job that's stable right now? So I actually have already talked to somebody. It's a employer nearby just 10 minutes down the road. And I am going in for a strength and drug test tomorrow and then hoping that all goes well and I'll be put in for onboarding. And he said that I could start this week. Okay. What would you make? He said that I could make an upwards of like $750 a week. I'm done with this upwards and what you could make. What will you get paid if you show up? I have no assurance. He hasn't. What job is this?

It's, they're called Deionics Collection. They make countertops and bath's, uh, they're, they're called the Onyx Collection. They make, uh, countertops and, and bath works, showers, toilets. So is it a commission job or I don't understand why they're not telling you what you're going to make. Depends on how much work you do. I talked to, I talked to the owner touch with them and get some actual numbers here. Because so far, most of your choices have been based on assumptions. And right now, we need to pay rent. And your roommate is being completely reasonable, saying, if you can't pay rent, you can't live here. I don't think that's unkind.

Right. I would do the same thing if you were my roommate. I'd say, you need to go find somewhere else to live that you can afford okay so the 18k let's talk about that if you listed all of these debts separately from smallest to largest what is your smallest debt right now my smallest debt is to uh emergency hospital out in St. Louis. Okay. Is that a few hundred bucks? That's $150. Okay. So we're going to gift you every dollar premium.

It's our budgeting tool. It's an app that you'll have on your phone. You can log in on the web. And when you enter in all of your debts, it's going to list them out smallest to largest. And so your goal right now, number one, is to cover your four walls. That's food, utility, shelter, transportation, and insurance. Beyond that, we're going to cut our lifestyle down to nothing. You're not eating out. We're cutting all the subscriptions. You need to cover rent because you can't get kicked out. That's your priority. Okay. The next priority is trying to stay current on all of your debts. So make all the minimum payments. Anything left over beyond that, let's throw it the smallest possible debt. And for you, that's that medical emergency debt of 150 bucks.

But right now, the biggest priority is income. You can't do any of this without money. Right. So I'm going to go down and work the retail job until I get a better job working in the cabinetry business. I mean, I would hang up with us, Alec, and I would call that company right now and just say, hey, here's my situation. Like, like, I need I need this work. And I want this work. I just need to know how much I'm getting paid. So if you guys can't give me a firm number of where you need me and what I'm going to be making, I have to depend my budget depends on what I make in my living situation. And if that's not the right time for you guys, that's fine.

I just need to know that. Because what I don't want you doing, Alec, is kind of getting strung around. And not that this company is a bad company, but I mean, who knows? But they haven't given you a straight answer. And for you, Alec, you need a straight answer. So whether it's like, I know exactly what I'm going to make hourly, but you need some facts around you. Because I feel like it's kind of this idea

all up in the clouds and it's going to be really hard to plan. And if you have those numbers, then that's when I feel like you can go to the roommate and say, hey, here's the situation. I'm going to be behind on one month, but I'm getting this job. This is what I'm going to get paid

and I'm going to catch up and I'll pay double the rent next month. And you kind of have to get yourself like back under there. But it's a pretty urgent, you know, situation. Now, in terms of my car, so I owe a total of $10,427 still on my car loan. Would you suggest trying my best to get that down so that I can sell it and break even on that? What could you sell it for today? Private party? I think about $8,000.

Do you have any money saved? I do not. Okay. Well, you're going to need to save enough. You might need to take out, I don't know if your credit's shot, if you can even get a small loan from a credit union. If you don't have income right now, yeah, you won't be able to. With no income, they're going to need proof of income. But yeah, getting out from under this car would help you if you go drive a beater car for a few thousand bucks for now to get

you around. That'll help you stop treading water. But hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar premium. You're going to list your income, which right now is not a lot, maybe nothing. Below that, all of your expenses, all of your debts. That's going to help you look at facts instead of just being scattered with your money and where it's going.

So we're wishing you the best, man. You can do this. This stinks. This will be a memory in no time. But go work somewhere right now because $7.50 a week, I mean, that's $36,000. That means if you could make $17, $18 an hour working retail, you'll be better off. So I might look into that as well. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. If you enjoy this show, be sure to check out Smart Money Happy Hour that Rachel and I co-host. It's way more fun than this show. But it's true. I think you're guaranteed to laugh during Smart Money Happy Hour because we do well and it's contagious we talk about pop culture current events and money over there yeah we're talking about it all it's great people love it it's very casual it's not a caller driven show we just take topics have a cocktail and we just chat

sometimes a mocktail that's right you want to get crazy. That's right. And so check it out on the Ramsey Network, on podcasts, YouTube. We film it so you can see Rachel's face as she struggles to get through something without laughing. It's great. All right. We got our question of the day here, sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Before the weather warms up, Neighborly can help you find local service pros like the Grounds Guys, Five Star Painting, and Mosquito Joe to turn your outdoor space into your favorite place. I like that.

Find the help you need at Neighborly.com slash Ramsey today. Today's question comes from Sam in Louisiana. My grandfather owns 45 acres of family land and plans to will it to my mom with the contingency of it coming to me when she passes i'm 26 years old married and live about 15 minutes from the land however it's not where my family wants to live and it's far off the road how do i respectfully tell my grandfather to edit that part of his will edit that part out of his will or is it wrong to sell it one day when it becomes mine oh that's a great question man um it's not where my family wants to live i don't think there's no there's nothing saying he has to live there in the will it's just saying he gets this family land yeah i mean i would i would

probably keep it you're 26 so let's just do some rough math. Your mom's probably, I don't know, 50s? Let's say she goes another 30 years. Yeah, yeah. God willing. Yeah, you'll be 56 at that point. Who knows what the world is or isn't or where you want to be or where you don't want to be.

Maybe you'll want land at that point. Maybe you won't. Yeah, yeah. So I think you, i would accept the the beautiful gift of family land because i think even as you get older just legacy and ties to family i think it's a really beautiful thing and then when it comes to that point in your 56 what you would probably do then is offer it to other family members to buy from you so it stays within the family uh is what i would do at that point if you don't want it. But I wouldn't

make a decision right now personally with something that's going to be probably 30 years down the road. Yeah. And real estate is an amazing asset and a really cool part of the legacy. And so just looking at it as just a wealth building tool and a part of your net worth would be a really cool thing because 30 years from now real estate is going to be more expensive than it is today they're not making more of it it turns out the earth is what the earth is and so i would hang on to it because 30 years from now it could be worth millions of dollars and set your family up for generational wealth and whether your kids choose to sell it or not that's their problem to deal with but i don't think there's anything wrong

with just hanging on to it and staying in the will and deciding down the road. So thanks for the question. That's an interesting one. Yeah, that's a good one. Danielle is on the line in Birmingham, Alabama up next. Danielle, how's it going? Hey there. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. You sound excited. We like that. I am excited because I am in a tricky spot and I would love your help. Rachel is specializing. We can't wait. What's going on, Danielle? I have quite a bit of debt, but the debt that I'm focused on right now is the most pressing debt. I have student loan debt, but I'm still in school. So I'm kind of pushing that to the side because this debt that I'm in is about $16,000 and it's

more pressing. It consists of my car loan and then a few smaller things, a credit card that's at $865. I have a small dental bill that is interest-free of $340,000, and then a small bill from school that's $130,000. I'm getting roughly $5,000 back from my tax return. It's also important to know that my car loan is at 27% interest rate. George just came through a little bit. Hold on. Let's make sure he can recover you okay you good yeah just some of my water you want some of my water oh what's what's left on this car loan uh do what what's left on the car loan um it is fourteen14,406 and the car itself was 20. I put five down when I got it. And so, and this was only a year ago. The interest is just killing me. Terrible credit. How'd you get a 27% interest rate?

So when I was younger, um, I'm a single mom and I went into a car dealership by myself with my newborn baby. They took full advantage of me. It was a Nissan. I'm actually in a class action lawsuit with Nissan because of their transmission. My car ended up dying three times from the transmission. I still owe 10 on it, and I can no longer keep dumping $4,700 into it for new transmission. Yeah. So I finally stopped paying on it after the third transmission

and they repoed it. I should have voluntarily repoed it, but I just let them take it. So I have a repo on my credit. From back in the day. And so when you went and bought this car, that's what caused the interest rate? Correct. That was just a year and a half ago. I got this car in March of last year. Okay. How much do you make a year, Danielle? I do get some child support.

So factored in with my child support, I get roughly $25,000 to $26,000. A year? A year. Yeah. Okay. What do you do for a living? Well, I'm a student as well, but I work in dermatology. I was working in the clinic, making a lot more, but I took a pay cut to work from home because of my son. Okay. Okay.

Well, to answer your question, I would use all $5,000 and knock out your debt smallest to largest, which would knock out a bunch of these little debts that are ankle biters right now. Okay. So the three debts, the smallest ones, I have in order. I could knock out two of them right now. I do have a savings of $1,700. Great. Well, I would keep $1,000.

Right. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I also am in a pretty bad position because my boyfriend and I just broke up. We were sharing a place together. So my rent was half of what it would be anywhere, maybe even less than half. So I'm about to move into my own place with my son and my rent is going to be double. Okay. Have you looked into other places for a lower rent?

Yes. A studio apartment would cost me about $700 for me and my son. Right now I pay about $460. Okay. Okay. So it would go up to $700 if you do the studio? Yes. Okay. And when are you done with school daniel um i'm hoping to graduate in december with my undergrad um and then i just have to take my gre and i go to pa school that's a whole nother situation with finding support for my son so yeah yeah and will you be working during that whole time? I'm not supposed to. I Instacart on the side now, so I'll still do that on the weekend.

How will you pay for PA school? Probably loans. How much student loan debt do you have now, Danielle? How much will you have when you graduate in December? I'll have close to $70,000 worth of debt for my undergrad. On top of the 18 that you listed out. Right. Okay. So Danielle, I want to help you because I feel like the path you're starting to walk towards financially is going to be a path of destruction. This stress that you feel with money is going to continue on. If you can hold on the line,

I would love to bring you on in the next segments if we can, just to kind of talk through this a little bit more, because I really do want to help you. I mean, I think single moms out there, you're doing such good work. I mean, you're trying to navigate how do I... Childcare is expensive. You're trying to do something from home with your son. You're Instagramming outside. You're doing a lot of really great things, Danielle. But just some red flags came up there at the end of the call, George. So I really, I want to walk this through with you, Danielle, and hopefully give you a better path for more peace for you and your son, not just for this year, but for decades to come. Okay. So hold on the line, Danielle. We're going to come back to you if that's okay. Don't go anywhere, Danielle. And America, you don't go anywhere too. We'll be

right back. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Rachel Cruz. Before the break, we were chatting with Danielle in Birmingham. So let me catch you up because we're going to go back to her. She has about $70,000 in student loans, $18,000 across some other debts like car loans and smaller debts. She's making about $25,000 to $26,000 right now between child support and working. She's trying to finish her undergrad, go to PA school, and we're trying to help her figure out her life. And so, Danielle, are you still with us? I'm still here. Good. Was that a fair summary?

Yes. Okay. So, we're back, and we want to dig back into your situation, because you said you're going to finish undergrad in December, you're going to take the GRE, you're going to go to PA school, and all of that with already having close to six figures in debt while being a single mom. Yes. Whew. How old is your kid? He just turned six. Okay.

Oh, great. Is he in school? He is, yes. He's in kindergarten. Oh, okay. Okay. I have a kindergartner, too. Good times.

Fun age. Fun age. Okay. So, Danielle, what's your undergrad in? I am pre-PA, and it's in psychology. It's in psychology. Okay, okay. Here is what I'm going to suggest, Danielle.

You said you came, you went back to work from home to be with your son. Took a pay cut for that. Yep. So the fact that he's in school, though, is encouraging. I didn't know if he was like two years old or how old he was. So I think one of the best things that you can do, Danielle, from a financial standpoint, which bleeds into other areas of your life of just stress and anxiety, anxiety. I mean, all of it,

right? When you have your money under control, it does give you a sense of peace to be able to fall back on because money's the tool we have to have in this life, right? To, to make decisions. And,

and I want you to have that control. That's what I want for you, Danielle. And I think the path that you're going down towards a lot of debt is going to lead to a lot of stress, a lot of strapped feeling months with payments and beyond, right? Because I mean, if you go into PA school with $70,000 in undergrad degree, I mean, you're going to be easily six figures right into debt. Right. So what I would suggest for you is that $5,000 tax credits to apply that. Yes. All towards your debt. I was going to ask your car. It's a $16,000 car. How much, how much could you sell it for? If you have you Kelly blue book, did it all?

I'm upside down significantly on it. It was not a good purchase. It's a Jeep Compass. It's been in the shop a lot. I spent so much money on it. If I sold it privately, I could possibly get seven grand for it. And then I'm left with seven. All right. All right. Yep. Okay. So the number one thing I would do, Danielle, is I would up my income. And I would, you know, even if there's, if you have to find childcare there for the last, you know, two hours of the day, whatever that looks like for you. But I think one of the best things you can do right now is up your income from $26,000 a year. And again, this may not be in the field you want to work in, but I would find anything, I mean,

anything to do. And I mean, looking at $45,000 to $50, would find anything, I mean, anything to do. And I mean, looking at $45,000 to $50,000 a year, I mean, if you can just double your income with a salary paying job that has good insurance and all of that, that's going to significantly change your world, Danielle, significantly, because that's going to bring in so much more income for you. You're going to be able then to knock out this debt with that $5,000 tax credit coming in. It's lowered all the way down to 11,000 or so and start chucking money at that $11,000, get that all paid off.

And then I want you to tackle that $70,000 student loan debt. And I would pause PA school. And I know that's probably crushing your dreams right now, but just looking from the outside in, I just see you walking down this path into more and more financial destruction, going deeper and deeper and deeper into debt. And I want you to be able to have the freedom to make decisions with your life

and for your son on what you want to do, right? And when you have no payments, that freedom is there. And if you're stuck in a cycle of payments, though, and owing, it keeps you in jobs you hate, it keeps you in situations that you may not want to be in. And so that freedom, I think, is one of the best things you can do. So if I could convince you to pause PA school, and I would see if I could just double my income. And even you said, you know, you're working in Stuttgart on the side, which is so too, a side hustle. And it's going to take probably, gosh, four years, five years or so. To clean up the mess you have and then cash flow the rest. Because what's PA school going to cost? $100,000 easily?

Probably, yeah. The thing that I was banking on is the fact that I would make $200,000 as soon as I get out. I wouldn't bank on that. Have you actually looked at what people are making as soon as they enter the PA field in Birmingham? Yes. I wouldn't be working in Birmingham. I would move out of state. I'm from Pennsylvania, and that's where I would go back.

What's keeping you in state now? My son, because of child custody with his father, he gets him for like five hours on Sundays. So what will change that will allow you to move in the future? Once I have a career-based job, if I move there, they will allow me to do that. So you could start a career in Pennsylvania now, correct? If I had a degree, yes. Okay. So let's say in December you finish this degree out and you move closer to family, more support, and have a career. Is that a possibility?

Well, I don't really have support out there either. What was the reason to move to Pennsylvania? Just because that's where I want to be and it's more money out there. Well, I would go to the most affordable PA school once you can cash flow it, possible, and then move to where you want to move to be a PA. Right. And that was another reason why I was staying in Birmingham. The schools are cheaper here than in Pennsylvania. Okay. Well, the key here is we don't want you, you're already almost six figures in debt. You're going to add another six figures to that and not be able to climb out of the hole while still making $25,000, $26,000. So that is just an unsustainable path

that really freaks us out. And so that's why we're recommending going to doubling your income. What were you making before you took the pay cut? I was making closer to $41,000. Okay. Is that job still available? Could you go back to that? I can go back to it. The reason why I left that job was because my son got kicked out of daycare before he started kindergarten. And so this was just something that I could do. It's with the same company.

Okay. I've just been working from home instead of in the clinic. Then I'd go back. I'd go back at it. Yeah, I would do that. That's going to give you a $15,000 raise instantly. Right. and working from home instead of in the clinic. Then I'd go back. I'd go back at it. Yeah, I would do that. That's going to give you a $15,000 raise instantly. Right.

That'll change your world to get rid of this debt. Yes. And once you have enough money saved, you still might want to get out of this 27% auto loan. If you can save up $10,000 and you sell the car, you'll have $7,000 left, pay that off, you'll have $3,000 to get just a beaterater car but maybe one that's more reliable and paid off okay would you if i don't know if even refinancing it is worth it or if that's even a possibility but if i took that 5 000 i've got I've got $17,000 in savings.

You have $17,000 in savings? I'm sorry, $1,700. Oh, I was like, well, that changes things. Okay. I'm sorry. I wish. I could take the $1,700 and take out the smaller ones that I've got built up, my credit card, the dental loan, and then my school.

And then the rest is just my car. I don't know how refinancing really truly works. I've never done it before, but if I took $5,000 towards that, would that be a possibility to get that interest rate lower? It may get the interest rate lower and there may be a break-even point. And so you can look into that because going from 27 down to even 15 is a win for you right now. Yeah. So you can look into that.

But again, it's not going to change your world, but it may help you just go from treading water to making some progress. Yeah, for sure. And upping that income, Danielle, getting that margin in your life, it's going to do a lot for you. And I would. I would make some drastic moves in that area first. And I would pause PA school. I really would. I would work myself out of this debt,

get a great salary job, and you and your son have a stable life. And then at that point, you're able to say, okay, what do I want to do going forward? And then you can make a decision from there. But I don't want you to making a decision out of this urgency that I have to just jump into something because we make poor decisions when we don't have bandwidth. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Sean is up next in Wilmington, North Carolina. Sean, what's going on?

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call here. Just had a question on if I should. So I own three rental properties, four in total with my primary residence here. And my question is, I've had a change in income here over the last year. I own my own business, and business just seems to be declining. And I'm just wondering if I should think about unloading some rental properties here just to kind of create easement here. Or if I should unload all of them, keep them, what I should do. Okay. So you have three rental properties. Will you talk us through the numbers of

how much they're worth and how much you owe on them? Yep. So first one here is worth $285,000. Currently owe $167,000 on it. Okay. Second one is $525,000 worth and owe $278,000. Okay. $278,000. Mm-hmm. And then the third one is worth a million, and that one we owe $468,000 on. Okay.

And how much do you owe on your primary house? That one's worth $1 million and I owe $498 on it. $498. Okay, cool. And that's your only debt, right? Correct. Yeah. The only debt I have is just these mortgages here and all the rentals cash flow. One, I called before here on, on this is I'm raising my, when you guys told me to raise the rent on my cousin, but one of my, my cousin rents one of these properties. So I'm like pretty much just bright break even on that one. But the other ones do cashflow.

One cashflow is like about 300 bucks a month. The other one, uh, the one worth a million, that one I'm cash flowing about a thousand bucks a month. Okay. Um, and how much do you, how much were you making and what are you making now? So like on a good year, I'd make, uh, three 80 close to 400. Bad year was normally like 300. Now it's last year's, I'm down to like around 200 here. And I'm just worried if things start going even more south, then like, I'm just trying to be prepared, I guess, here on, I don't know, it's just business seems to be

kind of not going down here a little bit. Well, more debt equals more risk, less debt, less risk. And so I think you're thinking through this wisely to go, hey, if I unloaded some of this, it would free up the money, I could pay down my mortgage. What's your mortgage payment every month on your primary? So we've recently moved from Arizona to here. Our old house was the one that we kept. That was the one that was worth a million. That one was locked in at two and a half percent. When we moved here to North Carolina, rates are obviously a lot higher than two and a half percent.

We're at 6.5 and we owe that payment $4's four thousand dollars a month okay and are all these houses still back in arizona uh two of them are ones in new mexico whoa i just found a property there and okay so just a lot of long distance landlord now um. I know. Yeah. If you... I got property managers on them too. Sure. Did you ever raise the rent on your cousin? I did. That was a difficult decision here. We came to kind of a agreement.

When I last called you guys, I didn't want to create any sort of whiplash, but we're on course to get to market rent, which he'll be on market rent in about another year. We were kind of doing it in like 200, increasing it $200 because he was paying like well below under market rent. Okay. And the plan was to get him at market and he'll be there next. So he can afford market rent? No. Then he can't live in this place okay do you do you enjoy having rentals sean do you enjoy investment property and

all that yeah and it's it's it was my main kind of retirement plan. My thought process here, I could pass these on to my two daughters here. And then 30 years from now, if they're cash flowing, I'm also getting debt pay down on them. Someone else is paying down the debt. And then in 30 years, they would potentially all be paid off. And then plus two, the tax benefits on them. The depreciation on helped offset my income when I was making, uh, closer to 400. So it helped kind of offset that a little bit. Um, so I just, I liked all the tax advantages and just the appreciation, the cashflow. So it's a,

I do like it. I don't mind it. Um, I'm just, I'm trying to be proactive here when my main source of income has dropped and what I should do. And that's what's hard. And I think that's, you know, this is a really great example, Sean, of painting a picture of like, here's like the perfect scenario, right? And you just walked it all through from the tax advantages and the appreciating assets and passing down to kids and all of it. But the problem is, is when debt's in the picture and something goes sideways, like a job, your income's cut in half. Suddenly this beautiful picture, all of a sudden the risk is what you're feeling. So I know what I would do, Sean, this may sound really extreme to you and you probably won't do it. But if I were you, because we all be in

Wilmington, we all be in North Carolina for the foreseeable future. Y'all going to go back to Arizona. I plan on moving here was kind of a big deal. We found a property here with 20 acres and I plan on that. Another thing is honestly, here's what I would do. I would sell all three and you're going to walk away with a, you know, it's around 860, $860,000. I would pay off my primary home. That's going to leave you, and I'm not factoring in taxes,

so you've got to do all this. But, I mean, that'll leave you around $350,000. I would go find a great house, pay cash for it, and build my rental back up. And save, because you got got four thousand dollars at that point freed up because your primary residence is completely paid off the life you could live even making two hundred thousand sean with no debt is amazing yeah it's amazing you're adding a lot of stress and a lot of risk to your life right now which i understand if the numbers all play out and this whole game and all of this like like I get it. But there is something that you can't put a price on peace. And right now you're

feeling this weight. And I would just and I don't want to you're halfway. You're literally on the other side of the country, like as far as you possibly could be from Arizona to North Carolina. And I understand you have property managers and all of it. but I'm simplifying my life if I'm you, Sean. I really am. And I think you can build incredible wealth to pass on to your kids, whether that's through investing, whether that's for buying more rental properties

that you guys start to accumulate over the years. Even on the property, that's a million and that was locked in at 2.5%. I'm not concerned about interest rates, Sean. Here's the thing, Sean. Think about it this way. But you're not going to be taking out any more debt, so interest rates aren't even a problem anymore.

And you make $200,000 to $400,000. We added up the cash flow of all of your properties. It's $15,000 a year if it plays out perfectly. That is chump change for you. It's nothing compared to what you're making. So it's not worth the stress and the risk when you can restart fresh and have it cash flow 100% because you't have a payment on the place and even if it's a smaller payment you'll still be probably doing better yeah you'll lose out on the future appreciation but you're

also going to get your life back and you're also going to get four thousand dollars back from your primary mortgage that you're not paying anymore and so i i don't think it's apples to apples again because of the peace of mind yeah 15 000 versus gosh,000 versus, gosh, $48,000 that you're going to be getting back without having a payment on your primary house. And, Sean, what isn't calculated in all of this, and it's something we always try to convey on the show and we can't always do it well because it's an emotion, but there is something when you don't have debt, Sean,

when you don't owe anything and you're not finagling. And I know the cousin lives there, but you're running math on the interest rates and you're figuring out how to make this payment. The income goes down, the stress goes up, and you have a beautiful 20 acres with a dream situation happening now. I've been following you guys here for years and I was actually debt free for about nine months. And watching your guys' show is kind of what led me to do that. So then I obviously didn't continue it and got back into debt. You'll be back there in no time, man.

And you're not going to have the relational tension with the cousin. You're going to have so much peace. You're going to burn less brain calories. It's a better life on this side. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. And you can build a great legacy for your family. A great legacy still.

That's what's this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. I'll see you next time.