The Ramsey Show - App - You Can Be Successful Without an Ivy League Degree! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 7, 2019

Ken Coleman, Anthony ONeal, Career, Debt, Savings Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. Sitting in for Dave Ramsey this hour, I'm Ken Coleman, the best-selling author of The Proximity Principle and host of The Ken Coleman Show, a part of the Ramsey Network. And also joined in studio this hour by my good friend, colleague Anthony O'Neill, who is the best-selling author of Debt-Free Degree. And we are here for you this hour. You've got questions, money questions.

You've got how do I actually fund college questions. You've got some career questions. You're stuck, confused, scared. That's why Anthony and I are here. 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. Anthony O'Neill, are you rested from that book tour? I haven't seen much of it.

You've been all over America. You're back here together. Yeah, man, not rested, man. I'm like you. I just want to keep going keep going i mean we're trying to make a difference you're trying to help young people get their dream careers i'm trying to help them get the education debt free so they can come talk to you on how to get the dream careers so i'll rest when i help millions of young people so i like that i love it speaking of which yeah i just looked at the calendar before we walked into the studio, and it's unbelievable.

Our Start Right event is right around the corner. Graduate with purpose and own your future next Tuesday and Wednesday, November 12 and 13, at the gorgeous, historic Franklin Theater in Franklin, Tennessee. And I'm told they've opened up more seats. So it was like sold out,. Now they've come up with some magical way to put more young people in there, Anthony. Tell us about that event. It's going to be fun, isn't it? Yeah, it's going to be fun. You know, it's going to be a lot of young people. So, you know, when it's a lot of young people, we're going to have different smells and different

attitudes, but it's going to be a good time. And I'm just excited because one of the key things, Ken, that I'm really going to be focusing on is teaching our young people how to live with intentionality and how to be weird and not normal and really be focused on where they're going, who are they becoming. And so it's going to be a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal event. And we'll tell America this little secret. Not only is this just an event, but, Ken, this is something that you and I are working on that we can't really say too much that will come out next fall. So I'm excited about it.

It's going to be fun. Anthony's going to open us up and set the night. It's going to be incredible energy. And then I'm going to walk through, parents, a very simple construct that will serve these young people as they get older. And we're going to look at clarity. What were you created to do? How do you figure out that big, giant question? We have millions of adults, Anthony,

who don't know the answer to that question. And we're going to teach them how to look at what they do best and what they love to do most. Now, as they get older, they'll get more clarity on that second half. But we were all created to fill a unique role, Anthony. And that means that we've got to do it. And so we'll walk them through clarity and then proximity. How do you get where you want to go?

I want you to know where that is. And so it's going to be a fun night. A couple of details here to let you know. We still have some tickets. They just made these available, but they're going to go quick. They're only $10. You can buy them two ways, DaveRamsey.com slash events,

or call 888-22-PEACE. or call 888-22-PEACE. That's 888-22-PEACE or DaveRamsey.com slash events. It's the Ramsey Start Right event. Graduate with purpose and own your future next Tuesday and Wednesday evening, November 12 and 13 here in our hometown of Franklin, Tennessee. Going to be a lot of fun. All right, so let's get to a social question here because beyond taking of Franklin, Tennessee. Going to be a lot of fun. All right, so let's get to a social question here because beyond taking your calls,

you can engage with us on all the social platforms. And so this comes in, Anthony, from Jesse on Instagram. How is someone supposed to pay for college with cash right out of high school if their parents didn't set up an educational savings account, an ESA? You know, that's a good question, Ken. You know, I get this actually often. While I was out on book tour, I just saw a lot of parents said, hey, I don't have an ESA. I don't have a 529.

And for those of us listening right now, what is an ESA? It's an educational savings account. It's an account that parents can set up to pay for college or to help pay for college at a young age. But I will say this. Do not allow your emotions, do not allow where you currently are to hinder you from actually going into college. While college is expensive, it doesn't have to be expensive for us. So I want to step back. We're going to do the research.

We're going to plan. We're going to keep debt off of the table. Prime example of the average in-state school can will be about six to eleven thousand dollars a year. So if you stay in state, if you stay at home, stay and you eat at home, don't eat on the on the campus. This is about ten thousand dollars. That's only eight hundred and thirty three dollars to go to that particular in-state school. And so that's that's not a lot you know you can deliver pizza you can ride a drive for uber drive for lyft you can find the money but the key thing when it comes to going to college is picking the affordable school i have no problem with you going

to an ivy league school as long as you go to the ivy league school debt free it doesn't matter where you go it's just did you pick the right school that's affordable for yourself? And if you do that, you can go to college that's be the best fit for you. And you bring up a very good point that I think that it's not just a kid's point of view on the brand name. I think parents get sucked into this as well. And the reality is, as you know from research, you talk about this on the road, you talk about it in your book. When was the last time you went to the doctor and you made the doctor show you his or her degree before they saw you?

I never have. It never happens. Never have. So what's the whole deal here? Where's the myth about the brand name? Certainly it impresses people, but does it make a difference in your salary or your future? No, it doesn't. I mean, let's just be real. There's no studies that shows that if you go to this particular Ivy League school, you have a better

chance at winning and succeeding in life. What makes a young person win and succeed in life is if they are living with intentionality, they have hard work ethic, and they're a young man or young woman of character. If you have those three things with a degree, you're going to be successful. If you have those three things without a degree, you can still be successful. Going off to any Ivy League school, that's great. I have no problem with where you're going, but I'm going to be just as happy for you going to the Ivy League school

than I would be with Billy Joe Bob going to community college. As long as you have those three things, you will and can be successful. And you mentioned trade school as well. I know on the Ken Coleman Show, I get this call just about every day. Should I go back to school for the whole purpose of just making my resume look more impressive? And we dive into the question, do you need to go back to school to get a degree in order to actually get the job you want? And many times the answer is, well, no, I don't need it,

but I feel like it makes me more valuable. And the reality is, if the degree is irrelevant, then having it on your resume, they're not going to pay attention to it anyway. Here's what we know from research. The average hiring manager, folks, get this, spends 6 to 60 seconds scanning your resume. I can tell you right now, if they spend six to 60 looking at the whole thing, Anthony,

how much time are they spending on the degree or where you get the degree? And if you actually are recommended for the job and you are leveraging relationships to get recommended so that when you walk in,

they've already heard great things about you. Again, here's what we know. Hiring managers, companies want to know, can you help them win? There's lots of ways, Anthony, to get that experience. There's lots of ways to get the skill set you need. Certainly in 2019, 2020, right around the corner, folks, the economy has changed. Companies are lowering the bar. So let's be smart about the education decision. Don't just do it because you think it's the only way. All right, coming up, phone calls are lined up. We're

going to talk to you about your money, your life, your career, your education. It's all open this hour. Anthony O'Neill, Ken Coleman, sitting in for Dave Ramsey. Don't move. More of the Dave Ramsey Show right around the corner. Business leaders, if you're not using LinkedIn jobs, you are missing out. Our Ramsey Solutions Company page on LinkedIn has over 100,000 followers. That's over 100,000 potential like-minded people our team communicates our current openings to. We also post on LinkedIn Jobs because we know the right person will have an impact on our company for years to come, and LinkedIn Jobs matches the right person with the right job. It's no wonder a hire is made every eight seconds on LinkedIn and over 600 million members visit LinkedIn to make connections,

learn and grow as professionals, and discover new job opportunities. In fact, LinkedIn members add 15 new skills to their profiles and apply to 35 job posts every two seconds. Get started today with LinkedIn Jobs and get $50 off your first job post. Visit LinkedIn.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Hello, America. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Anthony O'Neill as we sit in for Dave this hour. So thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Taking your questions about money, college, career. It's all up for grabs. It is your show. So let's go. Rebecca is on the line in Wisconsin.

Rebecca, how can we help? Yes, thank you both so much for taking my call. It's wonderful to be able to get through and talk to you. I will be as concise as possible. I am 36 and I'm just starting the baby steps. I'm currently $40,000 in debt from a few different things. And the jobs I currently have, I'm working 65 hours a week between two jobs. And one of the jobs that I have partners with Arizona State University to give their employees their first bachelor's degree. And I'm just wondering if that's a good option for me because of where I'm at. And also, as part of this program, they pay for tuition, but the employee has to pay for books and fees. So, Rebecca, now you say you're working 65 hours a week, and I could have missed it, but what is your yearly income?

Like, what are you making a year? Okay, so that's part of my issue. So I work as a nanny full-time, and then I also work part-time at a coffee shop, Starbucks. And I make around $32,000, I think. $32,000 a year? Yeah, like after taxes. After taxes.

Okay, so you're saying that includes about $2,500 a month and you have about $40,000 in debt right now. Yeah, I went to culinary school. Big mistake. Culinary school. Did you get the degree there? Yeah. I i did it was a one-year certificate are you using that at all um i did for a little while um the uh yeah so the culinary industry is um very taxing really long hours with not a lot of good um payout.

So just real quick, why are you entertaining going back to school to where you would get the tuition paid for? I mean, what's the purpose? Where's the destination? So I am trying to figure out a career path, and I've been praying about it, thinking about it for a long time because I'm 36 now. So we want to press pause on any kind of conversation about do I go to school? This is like saying, all right, we're going to go on a trip, everybody, pile in the car

and everybody goes, where are we going? You go, I don't know, but we're just going somewhere. And that's just not smart. I suspect you have a couple of ideas, but there's some fear and doubt you're dealing with. Is that fair? Yes, sir. Okay, so let's have a fun little exercise, okay? All right, Rebecca, if I could give you something tomorrow making, let's just say, $35 or higher, $1,000 a year, and there was no risk, you are guaranteed to succeed in this.

So you just get to try it. We're not locking you in for 30 years, but this is based on something in your head and heart, something you've always wondered about. If I take the risk away and I give it to you tomorrow, Rebecca, what is it? Say it. Oh, I would love to teach people. Oh, teach them what? Well, I really have a heart for people that are not from here to help them get acclimated and also to learn the language.

I lived abroad for a little while, and I was told that I was really good at that. I'm also really patient and I love just like seeing the light go on in people's heads. Okay. So here's the good news. And communication is so important. Yeah. So here's the good news. You have the talent to pull this off and you have the passion. This is where the sweet spot exists, where we use what we do best to do what we love to do most. So this is great. Rebecca, you've got some real clarity. Here's the deal. You just don't think you have what it takes. So there's some doubt or you're afraid, how would I get qualified to do this and still be able to pay the bills because I'm facing all this debt? Can I go after the dream

job while I'm in debt? And the answer is yes. So do you know what it would take to get qualified? Because that's the second stage. Stage one is get clear. Number two, get qualified. Do you know what it would take to get qualified, to get hired, to do that work you just told us about? Depending on the job, it could be as little as a certification or it could be as much as a four-year degree depending on the employer. All right, so let me just say this. So let's go do some more research.

Here's what's ahead of you. Here's your homework. Let's go look at the options that exist for you that don't require you to go back to school because that's not a good decision right now. Now, let me just say this to give you some long-term hope. What if in the next two years, Anthony, she gets out of debt, maybe 18 months, she just does whatever it takes,

she gets out of debt, that four-year degree is still there to actually get that dream job. So I want to encourage you on that. But I also want you to actually go do the specific research to find what are the jobs in that area helping immigrants come in and get assimilated. That's what I'm going to call it for lack of a better description. And what are the areas where I can do that with just a simple certification? Which, by the way, you could probably do that and still hold down the two jobs. So that's what she's got to do, Anthony. And once she figures that out, we go, okay, boom, let's take that step. Let's go do it. And then once we're qualified, right, we're getting connected the whole time. We make sure we get connected. We get an opportunity. And you don't have to interrupt any paycheck, folks.

That's what you've got to hear. Rebecca doesn't have to lose a paycheck. She can do the certification and the connection, okay, while she's still working those two jobs. And then when she gets the job, she's going to substitute that full-time job with the new job. Understand, Anthony, not one time have we talked about missing a paycheck. No, you're right, Ken. And I love it. it i love it i would definitely say once she does the research once she identifies what is that um i i still wouldn't have a problem her taking advantage of the free education at the state university no question to get that certificate if she needs the four-year degree absolutely yeah so i'm open to both those man yeah i like that all right uh let's

go to another question from social media. Let's go to Twitter. Boy, I bet you get this one, and I'm kind of glad you get this one because I like this question as well. Zachary tweets, I know, Anthony, you talk about education being important, but what is your opinion on trade schools? I absolutely hate them. I'm just playing. I'm just playing. I love trade schools.

I love any type of education. I love trade schools. I love community just playing i love trade schools i love uh any type of education i love trade schools i love community colleges um i love tech schools i love youtube school um i love any type of education um you know mark cuban said something to me a while back he said every single day we should be learning how to learn and so i believe that if you want to go into a particular trade for an example if you want to be a welder, do not go to Tennessee State University to become a welder. Go to trade school. Now, here's what I tell young people all the time. Make sure that you know that's a trade that you want to do long term.

Great point. Make sure that you know you want to retire as a welder or you want to start your own business, your own welding company. Because once you get that particular trade and you try to go into another career field, that tech school will not follow you. So make sure you step back. You and I say this all the time. We're going to keep that off of the table. But then also we're going to do research and prep. We're going to make sure that we know I'm going to be happy in this particular trade until I'm 50, 60 years old.

And what's the best way to do that, Ayo? Well, that's you. You're the career guy. Oh, I'm so glad that I asked you that. Here's the deal. So let's say you're a young person and you don't want to go to college because you've kind of figured out, I really want to be in the trade. So let's just say that you love being in the electrical field or you love working with your hands and you'd love to be a carpenter for the one day opportunity to maybe be a general contractor and make some serious money and so you're going does a four-year degree make me a better carpenter or woodworker and you know

the answer is no so you've got to be able to sit down with mom and dad and go hey i've got a plan and here's the plan between the summer of my graduating year and maybe college, I want to work full-time for a home builder. And you get in there and work every day for three months in the heat, and you figure out, is this something I want to do long-term, which is what you just said, Anthony. And the idea here is parents, I'm going to talk to parents for a moment. You've got to be okay if Johnny comes to you with that plan and say, does he have a plan? No, I'm not okay with that. I want him to go to a four-year university where I graduated from.

Yeah, bad idea, Mom and Dad, because you're going to send him to school for a degree he doesn't want and can't use. If they've got a plan, and the plan involves getting in proximity to the field they think they want to be in, that is a great move. Why? Proximity does three things. They get a chance to learn, do, and connect. Come on, parents.

Relax a little bit. They're young. Let them try it, but let them try it on purpose. Don't go anywhere. More Dave Ramsey Show coming right up. Folks, let's cut through the bull. Interest rates are exceptionally low, so you're missing out if you have not called Churchill Mortgage to see if you can save money on your home loan. Lots of other companies are out there claiming great deals, but don't get lured by slick advertisements. No-cost refinance offers do not mean they're free.

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Welcome back, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey Personality and host of the Ken Coleman Show. Ken Coleman joined by another Ramsey personality, Anthony O'Neill, the best-selling author of our latest best-selling book, Debt-Free Degree, and we are here for you this hour, 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225, the number, and let's get it started. This segment with Jared is on the line in California.

Jared, how can we help? Good afternoon, gentlemen. I really appreciate your time. Just hoping you could clarify a decision for me. All right. My wife and I in July became avid listeners, enacted the budget in August, and between August and now we've paid off $26,000 in debt. We have $37,000 left between a truck loan and a personal loan.

And now in comes the question, is prior to starting the debt snowball, I had begun some additional career training. It's a three-step process. I'm only one step in, about $50,000 left of training to accomplish. And I'm having a hard time pressing pause on the training until we could get the debt snowball finished and save up for our emergency fund. When would you expect, if everything stays the same as it is today, to pay off the debt? Less than a year. The debt will be paid off in four or five months. Wow.

And then building up the emergency fund. Okay, so four to five months from now, we finish maybe step two and pay off the debt. And so are you cash flowing, I'm assuming, the $50,000 as you go, or have you already set it aside? No. And that's why I would have to stop is because we don't have that cash available. I started this whole process out working under a loan, still feeling that was okay. And then during the process, I found Dave Ramsey and all your radio programs and have become an

avid listener and truly believe in it. I just don't want to stop all the advancement training. Yeah, but it's not the end of the world. It's not like you're not going to get to get back into that. And even if they said, well, you'd have to start over. I mean, you are so close. I mean, Anthony, they've paid off $26,000 in three to four months here. And the payoff is so close around the corner. I don't think you need to feel bad about that at all. I think you ought to be focusing on how impressive your victories have been so far and that you are not far from becoming debt free and working on an emergency fund, which makes that training really easy to cash flow. Jared, what is your household income right now annually? My wife just went back to work full-time, and now we're $250,000 to $270,000.

$250,000 a year. I want to hear this correctly, right? Yes, sir. Okay, yeah. So yeah, I'm rocking with Ken on this one, man. You're already clearly making way more than the average American household right now. So I'm going to put that on pause because once you clear that $37,000, if you can pay that off in the four to five months, then what I'm looking at is that you can go back to school and go ahead and pay the $50,000 cash. But here's the thing. The baby steps work.

So once we pay off the debt, Jared, I need you to go ahead and set aside three to six months for emergencies because I'm pretty sure you don't have that right now. But making $250,000, you should be able to get to that. So maybe you get back into the program next year. But the truth be told, I'm going to step back in and ask myself, do I really need this education? Because am I going to go from 250 to 260 to 75? Or is it going to help me go from 250 to 500 to a million? But I'm not just going to do this program just to go up a little bit.

It needs to make a great dent in my income because you're making great money. That's right. And again, you've got to choose peace over progress here. Yeah. Financial peace over what here. Financial peace over what you think is progress towards that next step. It will be there, and you're going to be doing it so much smarter. But thank you so much for the call. All right, next we go to New York, where Tim is on the line. Tim, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure, Tim. Okay. So I'm 22. I graduated with a four-year degree. I have $25,000 in student loans, and I have to start making payments in February. I have a job now making $3,200 a month. I've been working two jobs over the summer and saved around $22,000. And right now I'm living in an apartment and I'm saving about two grand a month, but I'm thinking about starting a new job in the city. It's like a government job and my pay would go down drastically. And I'm worried about during that transition period, if I should keep an emergency fund or if I should pull my money towards that debt. I just don't really feel comfortable giving up my nest egg yet. So Tim, let me ask you a question. Let me just make sure I'm hearing

correctly. You're 22 years old with $22,000 cash in the bank. You only owe $25,000 in student loans. What other debt do you have outside of the $25,000 in student loans? I have no other debt. I just have a 16-year-old paid-for car. When are you looking to start

this new job that will have a decrease in your pay? I would know in Januaryuary january okay cool so this is what i'm doing you know tim because i really want to help you set yourself up for a financial win okay i'm taking twenty two thousand dollars i'm gonna leave a thousand dollars in my bank and i'm paying twenty one thousand dollars today when i hang up the phone uh from talking with me and ken and paying paying off twenty one thousand dollars in my student loans then i'm gonna take some more money.

I'm going to pay off the other $4,000. Now, what this just does, it just gave you a pay raise. So you're going to lose some income you have coming in, but that's the only thing you're going to have to worry about is just your rent and you have a car. What part of New York are you in? Because you're not in the city driving a car. So what part of New York are you in? No.

I live in Nassau County. Oh, yeah. So you're- Right outside the city driving a car. So what part of New York are you in? No. I live in Nassau County. Oh, yeah. So you're right outside the city. My question is, you're a smart guy. Can I assume that you're taking this job in the city for less money because it's a short-term less money play? It's going to lead to a much better situation. You see a ladder.

Is that what's going on? Yeah. Within five years, if I get the the job i'm guaranteed to make 85 plus overtime okay but forget i love that i knew you were a smart kid but let's forget five years how soon do you get back i know you're going to take a decrease to start but what does it look like projection wise to where you would get back to where you are this moment? It's actually going to be a while because year starting is $42,000. Year four is $50,000. And then that next year is when you see the big increase.

All right. Well, okay, I like that you've got a plan. Can I just challenge you before you make this move to look at, to try to find two or three other ways to get where you ultimately want to go? I know that this job that you've been offered is an opportunity right now. I mean, it's in your hand, and you're going, all right, I'm willing to sacrifice to get there, but are there other ways?

I know the answer, but do you know of other ways to get ultimately where you want to go? Absolutely not. This is the only way. I kind of have all my eggs in one basket. This is the only way in the universe to get where you want to go. I mean, if my goal is, you know, financial peace, then to build wealth,

I could work another job, but for this specific line of work, I would have to go through the salary in the beginning. All right. All right. Good deal. Then that meets the test for me.

But Anthony gave you the financial advice. He's absolutely right because even now, Anthony, with the plan you gave him, he's saving $2,000 a month on his current salary. So he's going into the new job completely debt-free. Yeah, yeah. And you know what, Tim, I think what Ken was saying to you, the route that you're going is not the only route, but it sounds like you've done the research and you're saying that's the best route for you at this time. And so I'm okay with that. I know Ken is okay with that.

But what I want you to do at 22 years old, making over $40,000 a year, and you're 100% debt-free, I want you to really take advantage of that right now. Because you're going to have this income. You're going to lose a little bit. But remember, go ahead and set aside that three to six months of emergencies, especially while you're in New York. And start investing right now. I want you to go ahead and just really start thinking about the future. But it sounds like you're a smart kid. I mean, you're 22 years old with $22,000 in the bank.

I know 50-year-olds who don't have that much money in the bank. Yeah, and by the way, sell the 16-year-old car. Yeah. Because you're not going to need it in Manhattan. Yeah, yeah, not at all. The subway's cheap. It's real cheap. But, I mean, hey, again, I take my hats off to you.

You're working hard. You're thinking. You're really living with intentionality. You have a plan. Let's just go ahead and get debt-free. Call're working hard. You're thinking. You're really living with intentionality. You have a plan. Let's just go ahead and get debt-free. Call them right now and pay it off. And then Instagram me showing me you paid off $21,000. Oh, I like that.

There's some accountability. A.O.'s already looking at his phone. I'm looking at it right now. Get that picture up before nightfall. At Anthony O'Neal. 888-825-5225 is the number to join the conversation here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Don't move. More coming up.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Anthony O'Neill as we sit in for Dave this hour, taking your calls about life, money, funding college, figuring out that age-old question, why am I here, what am I supposed to do with my life? It's all open this hour, 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. And we're going to go to Massachusetts where Joy is on the line. Joy, how can we help? Hi.

My question is about helping women who have moderate domestic violence situations. Hey, Joy. Joy, we're having a hard time hearing you, so see if we can hold that phone real still and very close to your mouth. Let's try that again. Okay. So my question is about helping women coming out of domestic violence situations. Okay.

Like they have no job experience because they've been stay-at-home moms or housewives for like 20 years, or they have bad health from the abuse. Like, do you have any type of plan or, um, advice for this type of situation? Sure. Well, let's start with, um, what kind of money do you need to make? Is this something that you can do part-time, volunteer, or does this need to be ideally a full-time job? Oh, for me to help them, it could be volunteer. I'm sorry? It could be a volunteer, but... Okay, so what is your specific question? I want to make sure I hear you.

Did you ask me how to get started helping those women? Yeah, like either helping them or is there already something in place that you know of where they can go get help? Okay, great. All right, so the answer to that is yes. Now, I don't know where you live in Massachusetts, but I could tell you that I feel confident within a 30 to 60 mile radius, there's probably somebody that are helping women that have dealt with physical abuse. You know, there could be some governmental agencies. Again, I'm not familiar with your local government, but I would feel confident there are some nonprofit parachurch ministries that are offering services.

And so, but what's interesting to me is, is that you're very specific in who you want to help, and there's a why to that. Tell me why. Oh, because I just came out of that situation. But the churches aren't helpful because they blame us for the problem. Okay, so let me ask you this. Who helped you? Anybody?

Some online people, like some groups online. Okay. Are you out of the situation now? You're okay? Yeah, we're good. Okay. So I love this. So Joy, I just want to tell you something.

You're an amazing woman, number one, to have survived this, and now you're looking to thrive and help other people, and I want to commend you on something. Out of tremendous pain comes unstoppable passion. Every time.

Every time. So in this situation, you've identified a few churches, probably that maybe you look for help, and I understand you have a salty taste and a negative taste in your mouth, but I wouldn't throw everybody into that category. So here is the nonspecific answer to the question. There is somebody in your neck of the woods, in your zip code, surrounding zip code, that is helping women who have dealt with and are dealing with physical abuse,

and you need to find them. Now, you've gone through this, and I don't think it would be very difficult, having gone through this yourself, to do some more online research. That's where you got some help. And maybe even through your online sources, I would ask, who's doing something on the ground in my area? And then all you've got to do is show up and say, hey, I'm here to help. Number one, I can tell you right now, Joy, they need women like you. Somebody who has dealt with this and survived it.

You have got a perspective and a voice that few others have for these women who need you right now. And so they're going to say, yes, Joy, we need you, and get in there and volunteer, and then who knows where this leads. But that's what you need to do. If you're not familiar at the top of your head of some places, you need to do some research. You can go online and figure this out locally. And if a church is saying they're helping, give them a chance. Go see. You know what real help looks like. Get online. Same thing I just told you. And you will find somebody who's helping these women that are abused and battered. And you show up. And I'm going to tell you something. A big part of your healing, Joy, is you helping. And I'm so happy that you've stepped through this.

I know it's been incredible. Well, I don't know. But what I do know is you've been through tremendous pain. But I know that you're very strong. And on the other side of this, this struggle will be tremendous strength. And you giving that strength to others is what makes you an absolute hero. Thank you for calling. Let's go to Melissa now, who is on the line in California. Melissa, how can we help?

Hey, guys. It's an honor to talk to you both. So I'm calling because I want to know if I should even bother applying on my student loans for a borrower's defense application. I went to, at the young age of 18 years old, and made the stupid decision to attend ITT Tech. And since then, of course, you know, the school's closed. I was there for three years. I think in total I took out about $40,000 in student loans. I have not really paid on that over the last couple years.

Just in the last year, my husband and I have become more better with our finances, budgeting, and all that stuff. So that's why I'm just kind of trying to decide what's the best way to tackle this. It's not something I want to apply and then sit on for a year and just wait. So at what point or how should I kind of balance this out to decide what the best course of action is? So you borrowed $40,000, Melissa, right? What is the balance of it now? Because I know it's not at $40,000. It's probably at about $50,000.

No, it's not. Yeah. What's the balance at? We're at $80,000. Oh my Jesus. $80,000. And that's a problem. And what other debt do you have right now? What's the total amount of debt within the family? We're at $80,000. Oh, my Jesus. $80,000. And that's a problem.

And what other debt do you have right now? What's the total amount of debt within the family? We actually don't have any other debt. We have no car payments. We rent, so we don't have a mortgage. We're just budgeting and saving money right now. And what is your yearly income? We're at about $90,000.

Okay. Any children? Four children. Four four children all right cool so yes this is what i'm going to do i have no problem with you applying for it i think if you apply for it oh that's great see see what happens but i do not want you to wait for an answer i need you to aggressively start attacking this right now okay um i don't want you waiting if it happens and they come back and they forgive your loans, then that's great. But if it right now,

we're seeing that right now it's not happening. Only one percent of the people who have even applied for the state for the government's loan forgiveness program has actually gone through. So what I want you to do

is go ahead and apply. It doesn't hurt because they did close down and I get that there. But then here's what you need to do is take control of your finances and of your future. All right. So go ahead and put that on the baby, the debt snowball and just go ahead and attack it. I mean, attack it now, attack it fast and attack it aggressively and do not wait for them to sign off on it. You guys are debt free.

You're making $90,000. Maybe you can pick up something else extra to help with that but you said it you took out 40 now you owe 80 if you sit there and you let it go some more it's going to become 90 and the next thing you know is going to become 100 so go ahead and attack it right now and if you aggressively do it it'll take you two and a half years and you'll be free to where now you can start investing into your children's college experience start investing into some other stuff all right so are you are you start investing into your children's college experience, start investing into some other stuff. All right. So are you all investing into like 401ks or anything right now as well? We're just about to get started with all that.

Yeah. Right now we've kind of had a change in. Yeah. Don't do that yet. Melissa, do you have Dave's Total Money Makeover? Yeah. I do. Yes.

Good. Well, then you need to reread that if you've already read it, and you need to actually do what Dave says. Chapter by chapter, section by section, baby step by baby step, it absolutely works, all right? And you've got to take tremendous confidence in that, that Dave's already got a clear path for you, you've got the book, you need to read it, and more importantly, believe it and do it. And before you know it, you're going to be able to step through it. You know, Anthony, it's amazing. You know,

we get to do these shows and do live events, and there's so many people out there struggling right now. And I just feel like somebody out there needs to hear that in the midst of your struggle, when you feel like you're about ready to give out, you got nothing left, that you need to re-embrace the struggle. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in it whether you want to get in, get out, or not. But let me tell you this.

It's the struggle that gives us strength. That's it. The butterfly has to struggle. It's actually a caterpillar, and it has to struggle as it's becoming a butterfly to get out but when it gets out it's the struggle that gives us the strength to fly stay with the process it's worth it

hey big thanks to Anthony O'Neill for hanging out with me for Dave Ramsey for letting us do this I want to thank James Childs our producer our associate producer Kelly Daniel but most of all you America

thank you for listening this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Blake Thompson, senior executive producer for the show. You know, you can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone. Catch the full show or watch the highlights and check out Dave's upcoming guests. Head to the App Store and download it today.