The Ramsey Show - App - You CAN Become a Millionaire and Live Your Dream (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 4, 2018

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. Bethany writes me on Twitter, Dave, do you have any advice for motivation for those of us in Baby Step 2? It's hard to stay motivated when it feels like Murphy keeps hitting us with a baseball bat.

You know what? It is hard. You're exactly right. It's been a long time ago by a number of years, but emotionally I can remember it like it was just a moment ago. You just feel like about the time you take a step forward, somebody knocks you back too. You know, I can't get ahead for getting behind.

You know? You finally get a little bit of money saved up and a stupid transmission goes out. Finally scratch up a few dollars and get the nickels out of the corner of the couch and the stupid heat in there coughs and sputters. I know. It is really hard.

It really is. And here's the thing I've observed in 30-plus years of doing this and having done it myself too, Sharon and I having walked right where you're walking, Bethany. Number one, you're right. It's hard. Number two, this is more this thing of winning with money, getting out of debt, getting your emergency fund in place,

becoming wealthy, increasing your generosity, changing your family tree. The whole process is hard. It is legitimately hard. One of the things that we looked at when we realized that was we said, this process is hard, but so is being broke I mean so is being mediocre I mean normal sucks financially I, deep in debt, worried about every little thing. Normal's awful.

I just didn't like normal. I didn't want to stay there. And so even though it's hard, it's easier than normal. It's easier than mediocre. Live your whole life, and your best shot is mediocre that's hard so that's what gave me motivation is i just said i don't you know i don't want to be 60 and working in mcdonald's in st thomas you know i don't want to be working in McDonald's when I'm 60. I don't want to be a greeter at Walmart. I'm sorry.

I'm not mad at you if you're a greeter at Walmart. I'm glad you're doing something. And if you want to go down there and you're worth $10 million and that's what you want to do, that's fine. But I don't want to be working in McDonald's when I'm 65. Unless it's the one I own in St. Thomas. You know? I mean, that's the only one I want to be in. Think about it. I mean, and I'm just thinking, okay, so what is the way out?

The only way out is what you're doing, this baby step two, and fighting your way through it and going, Murphy, you no good so-and-so. I am not going to put up with you. You are going to keep hitting me with these negative things. And, you know, the only promise I can make you, Bethany, is it's worth it to fight through it. It's hard, but it's worth it. Because when you get the other side of this, you'll be like a lady I met the other day.

I was down in Melbourne, Florida, speaking at Calvary Chapel. They're taking their whole church through Financial Peace University. And when I finished speaking on Saturday night, a lady walked up to me, and she said, you know, I'm about your age. I'm in my 50s, and I just want to tell you what happened. I've been working for this company 37 years, and they laid me off last week. No notice. Just dropped me.

Kicked me the curb like next week's trash. She said I was hurt, mad, driving home with tears running down my face. I was scared. What am I going to do? I've lost my job. And then she said, and then I thought, wait a minute. I'm okay. I've got several hundred thousand dollars in my 401k.

I've got six months in my emergency fund. I don't have any payments. I've been doing this Dave Ramsey financial peace stuff. I'm living, I'm handling money God's ways. And I'm going to be okay. And she said, all of a sudden, when I just took the reality of my situation in, and I got $20,000 in the bank for my emergency, and I got a couple hundred grand in my 401K, and I got no payments.

I took that reality, and I thought, you know what? I'm going to be okay. And, you know, what will happen is she'll find a job making more than she used to make at the place that kicked her to the curb. That's what will happen to her. And that's what we prayed for her that night, that that would happen. So she's the other side of where you are, Bethany. She's pushed through. And then when something bad happened and Murphy shows up,

when Murphy shows up and you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund, and emergency is no longer an emergency, it's an inconvenience. You know, when you get your act together, it changes. Murphy does not have the power over you that he used to have. But when you're broke, and I remember being broke, when you're broke and i remember being broke when you're broke every little thing is a big drama it's like everything that can go wrong will your life looks like a country song you know what i'm talking about i mean it when you're broke it just seems like there's no way and you've got to do something to fight away from the broke land i mean you got

to get out of the land of the broke, right? So that when Murphy shows up, you can hit him with a baseball bat. Because he does show up. He shows up in all of our lives. The only difference is whether you're ready for him or not. Saw you coming, buddy. You're not going to. You showed up at the wrong house.

We're ready for you. See, that's a different situation, isn't it? And what we've learned is over these 30 years of coaching people and walking through this ourselves is that our mindset, the way we look at it, our level of hope causes us to sacrifice to win. And if you live like no one else, later you're going to live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness, the Bible says. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. It's a pretty simple idea.

And Bethany, I know it's hard. All I can promise you is it's worth it. It's hard. But it's worth it. Whatever you do, don't stop. You got this. You got this. You got this.

Never quit. Never quit. This is the Dave time to buy life insurance? My answer is typically now. Life insurance is not part of the baby steps because it's needed when your family has debt and not enough savings to provide for their financial needs. That's when they're at the highest risk. And no matter where you are in your baby steps, it's a necessity, not a choice.

This includes working husbands and wives as well as stay-at-home parents. It's pretty expensive to replace those stay-at-home parent responsibilities. I only recommend term life insurance since it's the most affordable way to get the right amount of coverage and not break your budget. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. These are the guys I personally use. Term life insurance is inexpensive, and your family needs this no matter where you are in your baby steps that's zander.com or call 800-356-4282 zander.com Thanks for joining us, America. We are so glad you are with us. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com.

They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, which with them, that means even if you screw up, if you mismeasure the blinds, it would be kind of weird when they're too short and won't hang up there right or they're the wrong color oh that's ugly yeah that could happen if i did it either one of those could happen if i did it you know what they're going to remake your window blinds for free that's a hundred percent satisfaction guarantee that's why i love this company stuff like that they're good people always put in the promo code Ramsey and you'll see the best possible deal out there at blinds.com. Steven is in Arizona, says my wife and I are in baby step two. For those of you that are new, that means they're getting out of debt.

Everything but their house should be done in a year. We're entering what looks to be a lengthy and intense custody battle with my ex-wife. We have to hire an attorney and it looks like it will be expensive. Should we pause baby step two to pay for this, or should we hold off filing the paperwork until we have the debt paid off? Well, the fact that you asked if you should hold off filing the paperwork tells me that that is an option see i don't know what is going on with this custody battle and all kinds of different things

can go on there if i thought my child was in danger if i thought there was a predator uh that my ex was marrying or i thought some real extreme thing, then I'm going to pause the baby step and we're going to take care of the kid. That's primary. But the fact that you mention in your email that we could wait tells me that this is more like you are aggravated with her, which would be like kind of standard operating procedure, right? So if the child is not in danger and is not harmed by you waiting a year, yeah, I'd get out of debt before I entered a lengthy custody battle.

Because it'll put you in a stronger position to enter that battle, you'll have the cash flow to just stay in the game. Because most of the time when you get in something like that, the first one that runs out of cash is who loses not the first one who's right and so you gotta you gotta war chest man and um if delaying it until you're debt-free one year from now is an is a reasonable option given the thinking about the good of the child then would, because it'll be your best legal strategy, too, because you'll have the finances to keep pounding away and pounding away until the gates fall, right?

But otherwise, you're fighting from a weakened position. So, you know, I don't know what's going on, so I can't tell. But that's a couple of different ways of looking at it. Chris is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Chris. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Good to hear. I have a quick question. My brother and I are partners in a small business, and around last year, my wife's uncle had us sign up for what's called a key man insurance policy. Now, I'm a little ignorant as to what it is, but he explained to me that it protects my wife in the event, she's named my beneficiary, but in the event that anything happens to me, she kind of gets my portion of the business,

but it also works as a retirement fund type of thing. So I'm kind of just calling to see what your opinion is of that type of policy and if it's necessary or or what i should do okay key man is what it's doing it's not a type of policy so let's separate the two things he sold you a piece of crap called a whole life life insurance policy because it has built in okay has a built-in savings program okay so we're going to cancel the stupid policy all right key man simply means it's typically used in a situation like you're in in business a buy sell agreement and the way it would

work is that uh you said you're in business with who your brother yeah it's my brother okay and so let's say you died the life insurance on you would go to him, giving him the money to buy your share of the business from your wife. Okay. Because he doesn't want to be a partner with your wife. Right. Not because he hates your wife. Maybe because he hates your wife. But not because he hates your wife, but more likely because she doesn't want to be in the business right so it gives him the money and you

and you do it in reverse as well he needs to buy a policy on him that goes to you but it's stated in the partnership we both have the same thing so we're both okay so you're both going to cancel this crap and you're both going to get up we both bought a piece of crap yeah you're going to buy term life insurance that'll do the same thing for about a nickel on the dollar for what you're paying now. Okay. What's the face amount that's given to him if you die or her? I'd have to double check. I don't remember what we signed up for.

Like I said, this was well over a year ago. Okay. And the business has just been paying the premium, I, paying the premiums, I suppose, for the past, you know, like I said, years. Do you have articles? Are you an LLC or are you a general partnership? We're an S-Corp. S-Corp. Okay.

Do you have articles of incorporation that define what happens in the event of death? I'm not sure if it defines what happens in the event of death. It needs to to i don't know you need to have a what's called a buy sell agreement okay and it's funded by inexpensive term life insurance term okay so go with the term and you're certain it's a whole life policy i'm positive because whole life is the only one that has a retirement benefit later okay that means it has a savings element, and that means it's 20 times more expensive for the same amount of insurance.

Right. And that's where he got me. He's like, oh, when you're 60, this is what the cash value will be. Yeah, yeah. And 20X. I see the big number at the end, and I'm like, okay. So here's the thing. If you spend 1X instead of 20X to accomplish your business goal of being able to buy out the widow of the one that died, right?

That's the business goal. And you spend 1x of doing that. You use the other 19x to invest, and you'll have a whole lot more money than you would have had inside this piece of crap policy that he sold you. Okay. That's the problem. Whole life insurance has a horrible rate of return. It's loaded with fees. And if you die, they do not pay you the money that's in savings that you paid extra to create.

They only pay the face value. And so the money that you're paying extra for to create savings is all being done poorly. That's the problem here i got okay that makes sense yeah i'm a new listener so i've you know past six months i've kind of been grinding with you my wife and i are on baby step two cool so i'm now going to want to cash out that whatever is in the whole life policy yeah and then you go with the term policy well you get term policy in place first in case you died while the policy would be an issue but once it's in place then you cancel the garbage policy but again you're going to save so much

money doing this and you can accomplish the goal and it's going to help you clean up your s corp corporate documents by having your attorney add it's not it's a one-page thing but it's just and then you need to cover that with all the four of you sit down, the spouses, and go, okay, if he dies, I'm going to be getting money to buy you out, sister-in-law. Okay? You're going to be out of the business. That's our thing. And if I die, my wife's going to be out of the business because my brother's going to buy her out, and he's going to have the money to do that from life insurance. Okay, from this new term policy.

Yeah, and it is stated that that money has to be used for that for that specific but for the buyout yeah yeah okay that's the buy sell agreement very standard stuff in a situation like you're in okay awesome i really appreciate your help thank you brother thanks for calling in open phones at 888-825-5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money john is on facebook what do you think of group life insurance this is a life insurance day um group life insurance means that you're buying life insurance through your company that's what you would have to mean by that that's the only type of group life insurance it is because you can't buy life insurance on an entire group you buy a life insurance on individuals you could be it could

be furnished to you through your company as a benefit and or you could buy it as a part of your group health insurance benefits package or life insurance benefits package um i it's okay to buy that it's usually if you are buying it now if's free, if your employer is furnishing it, free is free. Shut up, okay? But if you're paying for it, it's usually not that much cheaper. It's maybe a tiny bit cheaper. The big problem is it's not portable. And what that means in the insurance world is you leave the company, you can't take it with you.

So let's say you had a cancer scare or a minor heart attack and now you're not insurable. You get diabetes, now you're not insurable. And you leave that company, you got no life insurance because you can't take this with you. So it's okay to have a little at the company, but I wouldn't have it all there. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Spencer here from Smile Love. At Smile Love, we'll straighten your teeth and help you love your smile. That's what we do, and we do it for less than you'll find anywhere else. I guarantee it. I'm serious. We're talking about paying thousands of dollars less without sacrificing any dental expertise.

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and we think everyone deserves to have it. So if you ever find yourself holding back your smile, get started today at smilelove.com, and remember to use promo code Dave to take an additional $100 off. smilelove.com, promo code Dave to take an additional $100 off. SmileLove.com, promo code Dave. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Wade and Nora Lee are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Good. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Pelzer, South Carolina, right near Greenville. Oh, nice area. Boy, Greenville's really growing. It's a beautiful little town. It really is.

Very well done. Good stuff. We were with some of your folks from the radio station this week. So, good folks. Well, thanks for coming by. You're here to do your debt-free scream. Yes, sir. We were with some of your folks from the radio station this week. So, good folks. Well, thanks for coming by. You're here to do your debt-free scream. Yes, sir. We are. How much have you paid off?

$49,000. Very cool. And how long did that take? 26 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Between $85,000 and $87,000. Okay, cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a pastor. And I'm a dental hygienist.

All right, very good. What kind of debt was this $49,000? It was credit card debt, hospital bills, student loans. Okay. Well, how long have you two been married? 27 years. It'll be on Friday. All right.

Well, congratulations. Thank you. Very nice. So what happened after 27 years, well, after 25 years, 26 months ago, that started this? Well, it really does go back a long time. For the first 20-some years of our marriage, we really did have what you called an income problem. I was always trying to cut our budget. He was always trying to increase the budget. He was always trying to increase

the income. And so that led to a lot of credit card debt. And then we decided to increase our income by going back to school. But unfortunately, we did that with student loans. So then we had credit card debt and student loans. And then in 2014, we finally got tired of the credit card debt and cut up the cards. And that afternoon, Wade fell and broke his ankle. Oh, no. So that required surgery. As soon as he got off the crutches, our son fell and broke both of his arms. Wow.

And that required surgery. So now we had credit card debt, school loans, and medical bills. Of course, yeah. And so in 2015, I sat down to do our income taxes that January, and I looked at our income and realized we had made the most money we'd ever made, but we also had the most debt we'd ever had, and I just was sick and tired. Yeah. It was an emotional moment, wasn't it? Mm-hmm.

It was basically, she said to me, we're going to Financial Peace University. And I said, yes, ma'am. Yeah, because this lady doesn't get choked up very often. But in 25 years when she does, you pay attention. That's right. Yeah, I hear you. Very cool. Sharon Ramsey is not a crier either.

And if she does, something serious is going on. So you better stop and take note. Very cool. Sharon Ramsey is not a crier either. And if she does, something serious is going on. So you better stop and take note. Yeah. Very cool. Well, congratulations. Thank you. So obviously, Nora Lee, you've been doing the budget all these years or trying to. And when you drug into Financial Peace University, the free spirit pastor here,

what happened then with the two of you on your interaction about money? Did it change that process? It has. It's improved. Oh, yeah, it did. The first night of Financial Peace University, I cried through about half of it. Oh, no. You know, the Holy Spirit's conviction along with the message that was coming through, just it changed. And, you know you know it really it takes a change of

mindset is what i said i just had to change my mindset you know the bible says that we're transformed by the renewing of our minds and i had to have my mind renewed the funny thing is i was working at fedex part-time delivering packages and i would listen to your show i wasn't doing a thing you said but i was listening to you every day you know so the seeds are being planted but when that time came i just knew it was time. Yeah. The entertainment quit and the actual listening began. That's right.

Fun. Very cool. You know, that's what I signed the Total Money Makeover book with. That's the scripture I use, Romans 12, too. To be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Now, don't be conformed to this world. They're crazy out there, man. Don't be like everybody else.

They're nuts. And my pastor always says, don't let the world teach you theology. So good stuff, you guys. So what do you tell people when they find out you got $49,000 worth of debt paid off? What do you tell them the keys to getting out of debt are? Well, like I said, one, it's a change of mindset.

I always wanted to drive a newer car. I never bought a brand new car, but I had that mindset that you're always going to have a car payment. So, you know, you pay for a car for five or six years, and then you just get another payment. And so we have not had a car payment for four years. We're driving two very old cars. One is 16 years old. The other one's 11 years old. Wow. But we drove it up here from South Carolina this morning. And it made it fine. So it made it fine. It gets us where we need to go. And so never again.

Never again. Well, now you don't have any payments, so you can save up and buy a little better car. That's right. Yeah. Good. What about you, Norley? What do you say the keys to getting out of debt are? For me, it was mostly contentment.

I like to watch HGTV and make lots of honey-do lists for Wade, but just kind of have to be content with what we've got and just kind of wait on it until we've saved up for it. I'm kind of interested, when you sat down to do the taxes that night and you had a moment, it was kind of that I've had it moment. We're not living like this anymore. I've come to the end of this. We're going to change.

Can you describe what was happening inside of you or what was happening in your head or in your heart? I felt like probably like everything I was doing was kind of in vain. I mean, I kind of, I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, but with his income, it required me to go back to work, and so we did go back to school, but it wasn't making any difference. It was, we were still in debt.

We weren't making any progress, and everything that came in was going right back out. Yeah, done in vain. Feels like a rat in a wheel. And we kind of made a goal back then that we wanted to be debt-free by the time my son went to high school. And so we did that by a month. Oh, awesome.

He started high school this August, and we were debt-free in July. So his senior year is the debt-free year. Actually, freshman year. Or his freshman year. I'm sorry, by the time he started high school. Yeah. Very good. We didn't want all of his growing up years to be in debt.

We wanted him to learn from us and understand what it means to get out of debt. We haven't taken a vacation in two years. We had always gone to the beach every year. He was frustrated, but he understood. Every so often, it was kind of cool because we would take these little sticky notes. Every month when we paid off, we'd put what our new balance was. We'd put that on the refrigerator. we'd put it on the bathroom mirror and every so often he would walk in the kitchen and say where are we at ah you know where are we at so he was he was kind of in tune

with the whole thing the whole time so you know he'll have that memory uh when he looks back even if he stumbles a little bit financially he he'll still have that memory going, I remember when Mom and Dad did that, and so I can do that. You've changed your family tree in that regard. It's like I've got the memory, and you do too maybe. I remember working with my grandpa. I'd pull a nail out of a board, and we weren't allowed to throw it away. You had to put it back down and straighten it out and throw it in a coffee can and keep the used freaking nails.

That's because of his you know great depression influence and um but i i have that memory working with him now all these years later and um i mean it's coming up on a hundred years ago that that event occurred but it's still impacting this family and that that's what's going to happen there he'll remember those sticky notes just like i remember those nails that's that's good that's very good and we're seeing it take root in him he started the lawn mowing business and he mowed lawns all summer and he had something very specific that he wanted to buy and he's pretty much saved all of his money all summer so he can buy that thing i love it very good hey that that's that's excellent now he's now he's on track for sure well well done you two we got a copy of

chris hogan's retire-inspired book for you because we want that next chapter for you to be millionaires and be outrageously generous along the way. And, of course, we know you will do that, Pastor, no doubt about it. So very well done. Wade and Nora Lee, Greenville, South Carolina, $49,000 paid off in 26 months. Debt-free, $85,000 to $87,000 income. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! That's how you do it. That's how you do it. I love it. You want to change your family tree?

Requires two things. You must change, and you must financially pile up the cash to change your family tree, build the wealth to change your family tree. But your kids will observe. And as Rachel said in the best-selling book, Smart Money, Smart Kids, more is caught than taught. You think their teenage son caught some things? I think he did.

Some good things. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture today, Colossians 3.23, Whatever you do, work heartily as for the Lord and not for men. Martin Luther King Jr. said, No work is insignificant. All labor that uplifts has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking excellence. Kyle is with us in Utah. Hey, Kyle, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was just going to ask you, what's the difference between a universal health care or life insurance, sorry, universal life insurance and whole life life insurance? Universal and whole life? life insurance. Universal and whole life? Yeah. Okay.

Well, they're both a cash value type insurance policy. The universal life is structured slightly different. Both are bad. Both are things where you pay 20 times more, roughly, what you would pay for term life insurance in order to create an investment whole life is the worst mathematically as far as the investment goes the cash value build up in whole life is uh very random on average it'll make about 1.2 to 1.7% rate of return. Horrible. About like your stupid savings account, right? And, of course, it's very front-loaded.

The first three or four years, all of the extra that you're paying instead of going to savings goes to fees, and so you get no cash value buildup for the first one, two, three years, something like that. And then, of course, when when you die the only thing they pay even though you've paid extra to create this savings account the only thing they pay is the face value and so the money you paid in the savings account you lose so you have a savings account that has a bad rate of return and when you die they keep your money that's just not a good

plan um the uh the universal life is the newer version of that or the next newest version. The whole life's the oldest of the cash value plans. The universal life was an attempt to make it a little bit better, and it pays a better rate of return typically. Most universal life will average net of fees around 4.5% to 5% rate of return. So it's more like an annuity with an insurance company, more like a fixed annuity type of a product. And then the biggest downfall with Universal, not only they keep your money when you die, but the other downfall is you pay one set amount per month, and the insurance cost, the amount that goes to insurance versus the amount that goes to savings,

the amount that's going to the insurance goes up every year as you get older. So that by the time you get really old with Universal, the amount you're paying may not even cover the insurance. You have zero going into savings and sometimes some of the money is coming out of the cash value to actually support the policy because you're not paying enough to pay the insurance premiums because the insurance cost in universal goes up every year uh but even with that it's slightly better than whole life uh but both you know it's slightly better than whole life. But both, you know, it's just one sucks and one sucks worse.

You know, that's all it is. And then the next one up, the next version that came out was called Variable Life. And if you ever hear of that, that's another version. And basically what they did there is in the savings portion, they put mutual funds in there. And you can choose the mutual funds inside your Vari your variable life policy and you get a much better rate of return net of fees you'll make about seven percent usually on that but the problem is those mutual funds were paying 12 to 15 and you're making seven which tells you what the fees are they charge a lot of fees on these things and so um there's just a fee everywhere every corner you go around where you're dealing with an insurance company. So the bottom line is with life insurance, anytime you're saving money with life insurance companies, you're going to get feed to death.

You're going to get a substandard rate of return. And in almost every case, they're going to keep your money when you die. And so that all makes it just a horrible place to pay money into a savings account that they keep your money when you die and so that all makes it just a horrible place to pay money into a savings account that when you keep your money that they keep your money when you die and so that's why we recommend and always have recommended and i personally have always bought once i got my head screwed on and understood how the math worked um i actually bought whole life one time from a ripoff company called northwestern mutual but i was in my 20s and i was stupid i did a lot of stupid stuff in my life that's one of the stupid things so yeah unbelievable but uh and they're

like the most expensive one of the worst ones out there you know so horrible horrible product so we buy term life insurance which costs about five dollars a month instead of a hundred dollars a month in other words one twentieth for the same amount of insurance. And I put my other $95 anywhere else for investing. I put it in a fruit jar, and I come off better off than those guys. And so I put it anywhere else. And so what you end up with is 80% of the people that sell life insurance for a living, and that's all they sell, are out of the business in one year.

You have an 80% turnover in the whole life, life insurance world. And here's why. The business model is basically this. The general agency hires someone in order to get to their friends and family. And the new insurance salesman is used to get to their friends and family and the news new insurance salesman is used to get to friends and family and then once you've worked through their market what's called their natural market uh then their ability to sell insurance to strangers is all is just horrible it's it's never happens and so they very seldom make it once they run out of their list and so

they milk their list they milk their relationships and then they turn over that's why there's such a high turnover rate and that's generally the business model now i know guys that are northwestern mutual agents or pacific life agents or new york life agents that have been in the business for 25 or 30 years but they're the ones actually learned how to sell insurance and they don't and some of them are general agents and they you know they hire people to work their list is what it amounts to knowing that they're probably not going to make it after they run through their list but that's kind of how that business works and it's kind of

an old model honestly it's pretty much dying uh the old whole life life insurance is kind of a 1950s 60s even 70s thing but by the, 90s, and certainly up into the 2000s, I mean, no one tells you to buy cash value insurance anymore anywhere that is a credible financial mind except people that sell it. The only people that recommend it are those that sell it. You just can't find anybody that's an independent third party like me. I don't sell either one. I don't care what you buy.

I endorse Zander for term insurance because I believe in term insurance. And no, I don't own Zander insurance. Jeff Zander owns Zander insurance. He's an advertiser. But Whole Life couldn't buy an ad on this show for any amount of money. We wouldn't sell it to them because it's not a good product. Just like a payday lender couldn't buy an ad on this show with me endorsing it, or a car leasing company couldn't buy an ad on this show

because they're rip-off products. Credit card. We're not going to have a Dave Ramsey credit card coming out. I can just assure you of that. And they all kind of fall in that same category. It's a rip-off. It's a bad product. And the reason it's a bad product is not a moral judgment.

It's a math judgment. The math is bad. When you borrow money at 800% interest on a payday loan, the math is bad. When you save money in a whole life policy and you die and they keep your money, your savings account is that dumb, the math is bad. When you run out the cost of capital on a car fleece, and you find out the average person who could have paid cash for a car, but instead is fleecing the car,

their cost of capital, translation, their interest rate, is upward of 14% on the typical car fleece, and that's someone with A1 credit. The math is bad. It's a bad product. Thus, Consumer Reports, Smart Money Magazine, my calculator will tell you the most expensive way to own a car is to fleece it, right? And so the math is bad. So if you sell those things and you know the math is bad, that puts your morals and your ethics in jeopardy. Now, if you don't know and you're just honestly stupid then you're just

honestly stupid i've been honestly stupid time or two in my life been a long time i don't do i certainly don't do it anymore but i mean i've done some not i mean some things that i didn't know they were bad but i believe they were good and i'm telling everybody go do them you know go borrow a 30-year mortgage i did that when I was 18 years old on my real estate license. Go get you a 30-year mortgage. Well, that was stupid. The math is bad. You got bad advice from an 18-year-old Dave Ramsey, right?

Hey, you want that tax deduction, right? You don't want that stuff, folks. You got to do the math. You got to do the math. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, guys, it's Blake Thompson, senior executive producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. This hour of the show is over, but don't forget about our YouTube channel where you can submit show questions or talk to other fans on our chat when the show is live. It's part of our commitment to make the show available anytime and anywhere.