The Ramsey Show - App - You Can Change Your Life TODAY!

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. Hey, it's good to be back with you guys. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is my buddy, Dr. John Deloney. We're hooking you up with answers all hour long. So give us your call. The number is 888-825-5225. Hey, it's a new year, John. We're back. Let's get into it. I'm so excited. I don't know what to do. I haven't hosted the show in a little bit, so I'm excited to get into

some calls and help the people, John. Off the rails on a crazy train. Let's go. All right, we got Miriam. She's in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Miriam? Hi. Good day. It's Mariam. Mariam. All right. Thanks for the correction.

My bad. Love it. It's okay. It's okay. It's Arabic. Yes. So, just quickly, Bob, a chapter, well, moved from the south. I'm a southern gal.

Moved from the south. I'm a Southern gal, um, moved from the South, um, June of 2024 out here to Phoenix. Okay. Been to Phoenix one time, uh, August, 2021.

Me and my daughter drove from Atlanta all the way out here to get some solar panels. So it was beautiful. It was like, Oh, I never live in Arizona. Ended up purchasing 3.5 acres by lost grace so I'm like whoa what am I doing out here in Phoenix I'm about to start um an eco village or whatever wow okay anyway long story short because I'm paying off my property um I decided I wasn't

going to get a car at first turns out when I was getting um approved for this duplex that we're in right now, that's when I realized that my debt was no longer manageable. How much? I actually didn't see. I filed for chapter bankruptcy after when I was getting approved for this unit. There was something on my credit that i just didn't know about it was a medical bill that was like six seven thousand dollars that added on to what i already had had which is up to about sixty something thousand of consumer debt got you outside of student loans

how many students oh a lot um use use real numbers with this use real numbers with this How many student loans? Oh, Allah. Use real numbers with this. Use real numbers with this. Oh, $98,000. And the thing is, I didn't have a degree. Oh, so this is the thing. I didn't consider student loans actual debt. A lot of people don't. No, well, I genuinely didn't understand it to be actual debt.

So when the lady was like, oh, he approved you, but he was hesitant because of all your debt. And I was like, oh, oh, there's still loans. And she was like, yeah. So you got approved for it. Then what happened? I did get approved for it. I got approved for the duplex, but I realized it was just too much debt. How much did you take out for this duplex? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The duplex is getting rented while I pay off my property. I understand that, but you're on the hook for the loan, yes? Like you got a mortgage for a duplex and you're renting it out, is that correct? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm like, I'm just renting a duplex. I'm just renting a duplex and you're renting it out is that correct no no no no no no no i'm like i'm just renting a duplex and just renting okay how much is your loan for the land that you that you bought for your eco village um it's it's owner finance but how much is it i don't care how much is it i i still owe about nineteen thousand dollars nineteen please tell me you didn't file bankruptcy

you didn't bank you didn't file bankruptcy. Oh, yeah, I'm getting paid about $50,000. You didn't file bankruptcy over $60,000 plus your student loans because your student loans aren't dischargeable. Well, we're working on that, but that's not a here nor there. But I do want – Well, tell us what the question is. Tell us so that we can understand. Yeah, what's the question? Yes, the question is about – because it's about a car.

So I realized before I was – had the every dollar app I am I am here I'm pushing the movement I really am like I believe in it right because I was not aware that I was basically spending nearly $700 on Ubers and Lyft to get to work okay and I was like okay so I'm paying for a car that I don't have I was like this is insane I was like okay I have to take public transit I have to take the, I have to take public transit. I have to take the bus. I have to take the rail, which is really good, right? Get to the question so we can actually help you.

Okay. When is it appropriate to use a loan? Because I know you can get a loan for buying a house, but I hear you, y'all, you know, you tout. Mario. No, you tout. Wait a second. No, no, no, listen, listen a second. Well, let me answer the question for you. It's never, I'm going to say that it's not ever going to be appropriate to

do a loan. On this show, we're never going to tell you to go into debt. And the reason for it is because you can already sense the reason why you've got 98,000 in student loan debt, 60,000 in consumer debt, 19,000 that you're paying off on land. I don't have to tell you the reason. The reason is it is a shackle on your life. It is. It's about a vehicle. It's about, I know, I know. I know.

My safety is in jeopardy. So this morning, because like I was saying, in order for me to take public transit, I have to work overnight. I get off at 5 a.m. I was getting off at 5 a.m. this morning. I'm walking down the street to, because my last bus stop, it's about a little bit less than a mile for me to get home. I'm walking down the street. I see this man doing all this kind of movement. So I didn't know about the epidemic of the drug crisis that's going on in Phoenix.

That's right. You're right. This man is doing all this crazy body movement. And so as I approach him, I try to like not look at people in their eyes. I hear you. He had a metal mallet. So I'm like, okay, when is it? When am I going to? Here's what I want you to do.

When is my safety? Your safety is always paramount. I'm not going against that. And I've been to Phoenix. I know what you're talking about. I know that area very, very well. And you're not wrong. However, you told me before that you were doing Lyfts, you were doing Ubers. That's how you were getting around. And even though that's expensive,

if that's the safer method for you to get around until you can save up and buy yourself a thousand dollar cash car, that's a junker. That's just going to get you where you need to go. That's what you need to do for you. If I told you to go into debt to get a car i would be not a good financial advisor and i would not be a good friend and i would just be that would be the worst advice ever if i said yeah just go take out a car loan because you've got 180 000 of debt well now the consumer debt's getting discharged no because, because, and that's the other problem. We didn't talk to you about your income, but what are you bringing in? What's your income?

Well, I'm working overtime. I average about 5K monthly net. By the way, if you just are going through bankruptcy, no bank on planet Earth will loan you any money for a car. That's also true. Well, I've already gotten approved for, I just have to have, it's a subprime.

Oh yeah. And so you, that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't,

don't. It's like, it's like, it's like you taking like a, like a metal bar and breaking both of your knees so that somebody doesn't hit you in the head. You get what I'm saying? You're just shooting yourself in the other foot.

Yeah, where we're at, and this is the hardest part to get to because for you, debt has been a crutch. Debt has been the little safety blanket. It's the thing that you've gone to to get everything that you want. And you're not realizing the effect that it's having on your life. It's odd to me that you're going through a bankruptcy and yet still you

haven't figured out that borrowing money is the problem. I say it all the time and I'll say it to you too. You can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. And that's what you're trying to do. You're like, oh, I'm in debt. I'm going to solve it while filing bankruptcy. And in the meantime, I'm going to keep going into debt. And if you keep doing that, you're never going to find a way out. You're going to be a dog chasing its tail. And so you've got to get to the point where you draw a line in the sand and you go, you know what? I may not be able to pay off this debt today, tomorrow. But the first thing, the thing I can do today is I can decide I am not borrowing money

anymore and that goes for anybody who's listening you might not be ready to do the Ramsey steps yet it might take you a second I'm fine with that but today you can decide I'm not borrowing money you don't have to keep making it worse and that is huge it's a negative right it's what if you can't do the pull-up you do the negative and you can do that today there's a time, right? It's when if you can't do the pull up, you do the negative. And you can do that today. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill

understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Hey, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls all hour long. It's a live show, so get in where you fit in.

Man, it's a new year, so you're probably facing all sorts of things. If you need help with your life, your money, good mental wellness tips, whatever it is that you're looking for, we're here to help you out. Give us a call, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Nicole. She's in Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Nicole? Hi, thanks for taking my call.

I was calling because me and my husband, we've been working with steps for about a year and a half. And we're constantly going in a cycle of between baby step and one and two. And a lot of it's medical debt that keeps piling on us that doesn't allow us to move any forward. And I just, I don't know, is there any advice or any help how to like keep on going? I don't know, we're just kind of losing some faith here. Who's ill? Is it something that you have a diagnosis and it's causing you to continue to do prescriptions or appointments? It's kind of both of us.

My husband's on the spectrum, and he's bipolar anxiety and ADHD, and so he's a psychiatrist and has medicine every month. And then I got us in debt with the cell. We tried IVF, and it didn't work. So, um, and then I had longterm COVID and so my heart rate would do some things where it just dropped and they never could figure out like a name for it or

anything, but it was just some effect from COVID. Okay. So can I, can I hop in here real quick, Nicole? Yes. From this point forward, I don't want you to ever say that you got y'all two in debt because of your IVF.

Okay. Together, y'all looked at each other and said till death do us part. And you knew that he had learning exceptionalities and you knew he was a character when you married him, right? Correct. Right. And he also agreed to stand by character when you married him, right? Correct. Right. And he also agreed to stand by you when you got sick, right? And y'all both decided, let's start a family. And y'all have struggled and you have sat down with doctors and you've done that together.

Yes. So you're going to rise together and you're going to struggle together and you're going to have good days, you're going to have bad days, but the key is together. And I don't want you carrying around this extra baggage, like you've done something irreparable to your family because you got sick or because you explored IVF together, okay? Thank you. Because some of that baggage, right, is this weight you feel going back

and forth between baby step one and you finally get that thousand bucks. You're like, all right, we got traction. And then suddenly you got to go back to the doctor or your husband needs new meds or he has a really manic week and he spends extra on something or whatever's going on. Right. And you both feel like you're the one dragging the other down and there's no, you got two horses opposite directions on each other right does that make sense it does yes it does it makes the whole thing i just want to quit yeah because y'all aren't dealing with a math problem y'all are dealing with a heart problem right yes i mean the math problems i mean the math problem sucks it's it's that i mean there's there's a math problem don Don't get me wrong there. But, and Jade, tell me if I'm wrong.

I would tell you, if you have baby step one and y'all are working on baby step two, and then you have to go back to baby step one, that tells me that the plan is working. And here's why. It's frustrating and it's super slow, but you didn't go backwards. You didn't end up owing somebody else money.

You were able to fund it yourself with your thousand bucks. And now we're back on it again. And now we're back on it again. And now we're back on it again. But I promise you if you stay on it, you'll gain that one month, that two months, that four, that fifth, that sixth month of traction. Do you get what I'm saying? Okay. Yes. Because think about your life without that baby step one, without that $1,000.

Y'all are multiple thousand dollars in debt because y'all went backwards every month instead of just getting back to square one. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. So I know it doesn't feel like you're winning. You're not winning, but you're not losing, right? And stalemates are the worst. They're the worst. Yeah, John is exactly right.

You're still going forward because when you do push play on baby step two, you're paying off debt for that time period. And then if something happens, you dip into the emergency fund. That's what it's there for. Then you get back on track. You start, you know, you build it back up to a thousand. Then you start paying off debt again. It's just that the truth is certain people's situations are going to cause the baby steps possibly to elongate. And that's OK. Like everybody's situation is not the same. You guys have health

issues and so be it. For Sam and I, it took us seven and a half years. And so everybody has those nuanced things that are going to cause the baby steps to, you might hang out on one step longer than somebody else does. And it doesn't mean that you're not making progress and it doesn't mean that you're not going forward. There could be some financial pieces of this to address. We didn't ask you much about your income. Are you both able to work? Yeah, tell us about that. Yeah, we're both working full-time.

We probably bring home about $5,500 a week. I mean, I'm sorry, a month. I was about to say, dang, Gina, y'all are loaded. $5,500 a week, man. What kind of work is it? He works as a welder, and I work as an auditor for a car company. Okay. Yeah, I mean, there might be some margin that you can find looking at your budget.

I'm not sure, you know, do you guys have car payments? Is there something that you can do short term and very quickly? Is it sell off a vehicle so that you can free up some money in your month to month? Those are the things I'd be looking at. When somebody tells me, hey, money is tight. We're having a hard time going from baby step one to baby step two or whatever it is. The first things I'm looking at, number one, I'm going, OK, are you investing? Because if you're investing, let's pause that. That's the first thing to do. So if you haven't paused, you need to pause. The next thing

I'm looking at is withholding. If you're a person who's getting a tax refund every single year, that's a signal that you are doing too much withholding every single paycheck. So I would get with HR at your company and change that, right? And then the next thing I'm looking at is just basic things. I might do an insurance coverage checkup to make sure I'm getting the right coverage for the right money. Most people do an insurance coverage checkup and they find out they can actually get more coverage for what they're paying or they can pay a little bit less. So those are the top three places that people find money just without having to do anything, right? And then after that, the next place I'm looking at vehicle is at your vehicle.

So I'm going through and I'm going, okay, do we have car payments? Is this something that I can sell off? If I sell it, will I make money? If I sell it, am I upside down? Is there a way that I can get out of this car loan and free up that money every month? So that's the next place I'm looking.

So those are really the top four areas. And then after that, it's the basic stuff it's groceries it's subscriptions so really go through your budget with a fine-tooth comb and see if you can find some extra money there do you have every dollar um we do we have the basic version okay and is that working for you um it has shined a light on where we're spending the most money um it looks like we spend a lot in groceries and so maybe like this is probably the least romantic date in the world but maybe once a week you'll have a meal planning week uh i mean meal planning for the week and y'all get together on sunday nights and y'all make dinner together and you just talk about what do we want to have for dinner this week and if you can cook

nine chicken breasts for the week and put them in the refrigerator and just have them there for you is that cool no is it sexy no but man to get you out of this mess and I'll tell you this um I'll add a fifth one to Jade's list I remember when my wife and i were going through i sold my beloved handmade everett guitars from uh from a guy out of atlanta they're amazing and i got rid of one of them because it launched us immediately into baby step two wow and so if you've got guitars if you've got a fancy gun if you've got whatever stuff yeah whatever y'all got your pokemon cards or whatever if there's something about lighting a fire in the house that just not a real one by the way but like lighting a fire and saying we are going to make this move right this second right and maybe i'll have exhausted

all that the other one i would say is is there one 30-day sprint y'all can go on and just uber like crazy or just it would be miserable and awful and i'd hate it but also you're miserable and awful and you hate it right now not being able to find a thousand bucks so what if y'all just both said all right we're both gonna uber in the mornings or we're gonna go both get a job at burger king or walmart in the evenings just for 30 days for 60 days and get out of the cycle and then you get some breathing. And Jade, let me ask you this. With folks who are wrestling in this situation, if you know you have recurring medical,

it's not adding extra to that $1,000 baby step one, but it is being practical and saying, we need to go ahead and start putting a sinking fund. Sinking fund all day. $100, $200 a month. Yeah. Aside, because we know we're going to spend it. Yeah.

If I were her, I'd go back. Or HSAing it even. Yeah. I'd go back on the statements and say okay what are we spending what's the worst month that it's been and be prepared for that worst month and have it set aside i love that i love that hey we're on your team we're on your team thanks for the call what does the future hold for business ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.

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It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Yeah, you're listening to The Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. Let me let you in on a little secret. When it comes to your life and your money, you're the only one who can change it, period. No one else can change it for you. And you can't look at someone else's life and money and think that you're going to be able to reach in and change theirs. They have to be wanting to make those changes on their own. And it's frustrating. It's very frustrating. If you're a person who's gotten a hold of the baby steps, it's worked for you. And you look over at your brother or your sister-in-law or your mom and

dad or your best friend, and you're like, man, I see I'm struggling. I really want to help them. And you're trying to get them to do it and they won't do it. Listen, it's one of those things. It's the worst. It's the worst. It's truly the worst. And I have found that the best way to broach a subject or whether it's with your spouse or with a friend or family member is just to be like, man, I was listening to this show and here's what helped me. Here's what I did. And it's so good. It's so easy. Like for instance, John and I were talking earlier. We were talking about our Christmas break, talking about sleep. And I said, oh man, I got my husband this whoop strap. It's great. And you just talk about it naturally as a part of the conversation, as opposed to, you know what you need to do. You need to get your money on point. You need to use every dollar. That doesn't work. Right.

Right. But when I showed you my app and said, Hey, I got a, I got a sleep score of a hundred for the first time. And I'm so excited. It's, it's, it's an invitation, right? It's not a, it's not a demand. That's right. We're talking about it like a real part of our lives. Like something we're genuinely excited about because we are, not as an indictment for what somebody else should be doing. So if you are looking for a way to get yourself under control, every dollar is the way to do it. It's the best way to budget your money. You make a plan, you stick to it with a monthly budget. It makes it super easy to plan your spending. You can track your transactions. You save for what matters to you most. It's all in this easy to use app that fits in your phone. And what's going to happen is you're going to start making progress. And because of

that, you're organically going to want to show other people. And you're going to want to be like, man, listen, I got on this budget. It's so easy to use. It's in my pocket. My husband can see it too, or my wife can see it too. And because of it, we found like 400 extra dollars in our budget. That's how this thing works. And so whether it's you or for a friend or a family member, that's how you talk about things. You talk about what's real to you. You don't tell them what they need to be doing. So use every dollar, keep a pulse on your spending, make progress with your money goals and do that with every dollar. If you don't have it, you can download every dollar for free in the app store or listen, if you have an Android, go ahead

and head over to Google Play. Click the link in the description if you have an android go ahead and head over to google play click the link in the description if you're listening on youtube or a podcast but whatever you do get every dollar okay let's go to amanda she's in chicago illinois what's going on amanda hey how are you doing good how are you i'm good um i have a quick question so my boyfriend and i've been together for about a year, and we're talking about the future, but I have two big reservations. The first is his mom lives with him, and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. She has some mental health issues, doesn't have any savings,

and he feels like it's his responsibility to take care of her. And then the second is we butt heads a lot on finances to your comment. Like I try to show him how cool like budgeting can be or, you know, what's worked for me. And it's always ends up like just in world war three to put it lightly. So I'm just stuck on, I'm just worried, you know, I think finances are super important for the future and I, I just worry. So it doesn't, any advice would be helpful.

Amanda, tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you have your answer. It just is a really tough pill to swallow. It is. It is very tough. So. And there's nothing, there's nothing like, there's nothing worse than a decision, especially when it comes to a relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship or a family relationship between you and your mom or your dad or a work relationship where the right thing hurts, but that doesn't make it the wrong thing, right? Right. So I would say like, man, good on your boyfriend for feeling a sense of, I'm going to take care of my mom.

She's going to live with us. That's going to be part of our life. And you as his, like if you're talking about the future, you get to decide, is this the life I want to sign up for or not? And I don't think it makes you a bad person, but it makes you like there's going to be a value misalignment. And then when it comes to money, I mean, you are getting a ringside seat to the rest of your life and it won't just be about money. It will be about what size house you're going to buy. And then what, how many kids you're going to have and do we spank our kids or don't spank our kids? And do we eat organic foods or not? And peanut allergies aren't really like

asking me the rest of your life. I care less right now in your situation, a year into dating, I care less about whether y'all are completely aligned with money yet. I care more. Can you say, hey, this really matters to me? This is important. And the person you're considering spending the rest of your life with says, I want to hear more about what you say is really important to you. They don't go to, like you said, World War III. You get what I'm saying?

Well, I have a question. I'm going to make an observation. John, correct me if I'm wrong. I've been married for 18 years. The times, I don't know that there's ever been a time that Sam and I have been at a complete impasse. I 100% am not going to act on or move towards you or what you're saying in any way and vice versa.

That feels, uh, don't get me wrong. Plenty of times we disagree plenty of times we want to go about something a different way, but when there's a complete, I'm not budging and a complete, I'm not budging over here. That's not, that is a red flag for me. It's a huge red flag yeah and again it goes to it goes to who are we going to decide to be during moments of conflict and like Jade says the couples that last when they reach those impasses they lean towards each other

they don't draw lines right right got it okay right right and so you tell us what does this mean for you oh sorry could you repeat it one more time sorry i said uh you you tell us what does this mean for you uh it's a hard decision i think i i think you you hit it on the head like i know the decision is just a hard one because i i do see I mean like I'm going to eventually be a reflection of how I solve conflict for kids should we have them and I the way we're doing it's not great so yeah I've been struggling with it so but it's helpful. I will tell you if if at this stage you are able to um I don't want to say non-emotionally because that sounds dramatic, but in a non-threatened way, if you're able to sit down by yourself or maybe with a trusted friend and truly articulate your values, what's important to you? And you're able to do that and then be

reflective on the person you've been with for a year and say, this, this, this, I mean, we are really trying to force a, a round peg into a square hole. It's not going to work. Um, that's, that's one of the most humbling, heartbreaking, yet brave decisions a person can make, I think. Okay. Yeah, that sounds really good. Because here's the thing. You go marry this guy tomorrow, this situation comes up for the rest of your marriage until there's an explosion.

And then at that point, you'll have to choose, are we going to rebuild something? But the rebuilding process starts with how are we going to communicate when we get sideways with each other? And we have differing visions on what tomorrow might look like for us. And there's the mom side of things.

You get to decide if you want to get into that or not. It's like marrying a guy who already has a kid. You get to decide. If you are thinking, no, I don't want all of that, there's nothing wrong with that. I can't say that enough. Like I say, on his side, it doesn't sound like he's telling you, well, this is just for a minute.

He's not stringing you along. It sounds like he's saying, no my mom struggles my mom's gonna be with me forever right right and the way you phrase it is he's not living with her she's living with him right he's in the caretaker role yeah yeah he hasn't i don't want him like i i feel like the bad guy for being like hey like let like, let's get her on her feet. Let's see if we can, you know, but yeah. Yeah, that puts you in a tough position, too, because you don't want to be the one that's like trying to scoot her out the door. So, you know what I mean? That's tough. That's a hard place to be in. Well, and he might look at you and say, hey, I've been with her for 25 years.

You've got nine months with her. Relax. I know. Right. And also, maybe he's an en meshed mess, right? And the thing she needs. But again, that goes back to the conflict challenges. If conflict ends in World War III on a regular basis on something as simple as, hey, what if we just lived on less than we make? Right. Right. Just basic. Yeah, it's a recipe, man. I'm heartbroken for you. I'm heartbroken

for you. You've got to be able to see that the problem is the problem and you both gang up on the problem. That's right. Not you both ganging up on each other. Once you figure that out, things get a lot better. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, I'm Jade Warshaw, and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing.

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situation is more complex, sign up for a free 30-minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan, so make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it is the right move. Learn more at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. You're listening to The Ramsey Show on The Ramsey Network.

I'm Jade Warshaw next to me. Number one, bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney show, which is really quite the phenomenon. I must say, John, you're a phenomenon, Jade Warshaw. Well, anyway, uh, Hey, if you like the shows that you listen to on the Ramsey network, whether it be this one or many of the others that we have to offer, be sure that you're liking it, subscribing to it, sharing it with other people. That means a lot to us. It's something that you can do that's really quick, doesn't take you any time, doesn't

cost you anything. But ultimately, it does a lot for us. It helps other people to discover the show. And that is big. We're all about life change here. And the way that we change people's lives is getting in front of them. And so if you can do that, like I said, like, subscribe, share, do that for us in the new year. And we'll be so appreciative to you. We already are. But that's a big help.

All right, John, we're taking calls all this hour. We got a few left. We got Sarah here from Seattle, Washington. What's going on, Sarah? Hey, thanks for having me on. So my divorce finalized about three years ago. About a year ago, started doing a CalCorp recalculation, and it finally just wrapped up. But during that process, my lawyer suggested that instead of setting up college funds for my kids because of the dishonesty displayed by my ex-husband about his finances, that I set up basically brokerage accounts for my girls and in my head, in Markham as college funds, so that when the time comes to pay for college, he, my ex can't say, well, Sarah has already saved money for college, he, my ex, can't say, well, Sarah has already saved money for college.

I shouldn't have to contribute as much. Is there a disadvantage or advantage in doing it that way versus a traditional college fund? I'm not sure that I understand. I'm not sure I understand what your lawyer is saying. I got it. Well, okay. But it sounds like your lawyer... Yes, like, so the answer is, in the sketchy sense, yes, you're correct.

Because you're saying you can say that money was for something else if it's in a brokerage well so so no and it would be just earmarked in my head as their college funds because what my lawyer's fear was that let's say both of my girls um go to school and for both of them it'll cost a hundred thousand dollars right a hundred thousand each and they're young so if i start saving the money now by the time they get to college, I may have 75,000 for each of them. So then there's only 25,000 left to cover. My ex could potentially say in the future, well, if there's always paid 75 or saved up that much, I should only have to pay half of what's left. So then he would only contribute 12 500 give or take so listen he's your attorney's exactly right that could happen can i give you an alternative

side to it sure and this is me i get to be on a high horse here because you called into the showcase this is definitely me on a high horse and i'm not in your seat okay yeah y'all are sitting around a table you and your attorney and you and your attorney's job is to protect you you are his or her client right that's that's their job and you're dealing with an a person who lacks integrity on the other side of the table, which is your ex-husband. Correct. I hesitate to suggest that you also become a person who maybe doesn't lack integrity

but is not full integrous and comes up with alternative ways to hold and shield money to put you in a better argumentative position in case something might happen 15 years from now. What I would prefer in this, again, this is not a ROI cash wise, and this is me mostly working with people who are struggling with their integrity for my whole career. So I get it. I would rather look my daughters in the eye and say i saved up

seventy five thousand dollars and husband's taking us to court your your dad's taking us to court to try to figure out how little he has to pay but we did the right thing you get what i'm saying because what it sounds like is you're being encouraged to hide money i don't like that from your ex in case your ex wants to use your cash holding or your college fund as a way to pay less in the future and that's technically right if this guy's a scumbag which it sounds like he is if he would weaponize your daughter's education to make a point with you and your and your your former marriage that would have been almost two decades old at this point but if that's's who he is, that's who he is.

Um, but it's not about him. It's about you. Okay. Do you get what I'm saying? You get what I'm saying? No, it totally does.

And it makes a lot of sense. And I, throughout this whole process have basically used Dave's phrase of, this is my stupid tax. And maybe this is just the continuation of my stupid tax and the stupid tax. I mean, but let's hold it another way. Let's, let's not frame this one as a stupid tax. Let's frame this one as a come hell or high water. Somebody else is not going to impact my integrity. And that might mean girls were going to a different school because your dad's

not helping with this and this is the best i could do over 15 years okay but that's different than oh look there's some gamemanship and maybe that you get what i'm saying and by the way i do 15 years from now is, what is that? A lot. Four, eight, 12. That's two and a half presidents from now. Good God almighty. Can you imagine two and a half presidents ago what the world was like? Who knows? 15 years from now.

Mm-hmm. I'm certainly not. But again, that's, I mean, that's the decision you and the mirror are going to have to make on this one. Okay. And that, that makes a lot of sense. I just, um, I don't want to become the monster that I'm trying to shield my kids from. Yeah. I hadn't thought about the non-quantifiable aspect of it.

I was more thinking about like tax implications and, and obviously making, having him pay a portion, a reasonable portion, but looking at it from the non-quantifiable part, it definitely sways the decision of, I'm going to keep my side of the street clean. It feels right. Jade, am I crazy? I didn't like the fact that feels a little bit dishonest at what you're trying. It's like you're trying to show that I don't really have this money if really, if in fact, I really did. And that's the part that bothers me. If you had just called up and said, hey, what's better for me, a 529 or a brokerage? We could talk about that all day and we could talk about the pros and cons of it. If you were worried that you didn't want to save up too much in the 529 because they might not go to school, like we talk about that all day. So for me, it's a little bit the why behind the what that's making me go, let's just save up for your kid's college the right way

and not be super concerned about what he might or might not try to do in 15 years. Yeah. Keeping your side of the street clean just sounds outside of just an outright abusive situation that you got to do what you got to do, what you got to do, what you got to do, man. I don't know. It just gives me more peace. And again, it's so much easier. I'm just sitting on the other side of a microphone, right? Talking to you across the country. It's so much easier for me to do that. But I love the idea of you walking into this new season of your life. I mean, you're 36 months in, right? You're three years in. I love the idea of you walking. And you hear the phrase that Rachel Cruz says often,

more is caught than taught. Your daughters are going to get a ringside seat to what it's like watching their mother scratch and claw and do the next right thing always. And that to me is worth any college. I mean, you're going to figure out the college stuff. Your daughter's going to figure out the college stuff. But that, I mean, you can't get that in a classroom. You get that from watching a mom and dad or a mother or a single mom go day in and day out, do the next right thing.

And I just, I don't know. That just feels right to me. Yeah. mom go day in and day out do the next right thing and i just i don't know that just that just feels right to me yeah and and i i appreciate that also like um little other outside of this but like i do a lot of home repair myself because i can't afford to pay somebody and my girls will tell people my mommy can fix things my mommy can build things. And I yes. And I have a wife whose dad taught her how to grill. Nothing has shamed me more as a Texas male

than a wife that can out grill me. And so even to the point that I'm taking grilling lessons, even this old in my mid-forties, right? So all I'd say is let your daughters come alongside you and let them learn how to fix stuff too. And this is generational stuff, right? But this is where the lessons,

this is where family trees are changed in the shadows in these hard, dark seasons, man. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. All right, that does it for this hour of the show. Be sure to join us next hour. It'll be Dr. John and myself. We'll see you then.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas It'll be Dr. John and myself. We'll see you then. we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy so it can fit with your schedule.

To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. Hey, we're glad to be with you. Happy New Year.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. We're happy to be here with you guys. This is the live show, so if you want to get on, you got to get in where you fit in. Give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll get you on the line as long as you're not crazy. We got phone screeners for that.

All right, let's get into it. We got Andrea, Andrea, Andrea. I'm going to say it all different ways. Tell us what's the right way from Columbia, South Carolina. It's Andrea, but I answer to pretty much anything. Okay, well, I want to say it right, Andrea. I do too. I have some really mean friends growing up, so I answer to all the names.

I think about that on The Devil Wears Prada. Is there a name, Andrea? Andrea? We watch different movies, Jada. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Moving on. I went to kindergarten with an Andrea, and my name is Andrea.

So my kindergarten teachers taught us very early on how to properly and kindly correct people. Andrea, it's like auntie or auntie. Are you still friends with Andrea? I have not seen her in years and years and years. The way you said her name suggested y'all did not get along super great. Because there's only one. There can only be one. No, no, she's fine.

But there is only one Andrea. Okay, that's what I'm talking about, and you're it. How can we help you today, Andrea? The world can't handle more than one of me. So I was introduced to Financial Peace University through my church years ago, and it's really the first time I ever sat down and budgeted anything at all. And I attempted, I recognized things I needed to do. I recently started listening to podcasts and found the Ramsey show, and it's like an addiction. I absolutely love listening to it. As I'm listening to it, I got the EveryDollar budget app, and I have been using that, which is phenomenal for me.

There's that word phenomena again. Love it. Yeah. But instead of using the envelope system, which did not work well for me, the EveryDollar budget is fantastic. Great. So here's my question. What do I do with the leftover money at the end of the month? Like, let's say my entertainment, my fun money, and even my

transportation is leftover. And I tried to build in, like, I know I have a dentist appointment coming in February. And my out-of-pocket for my dental x-rays, because I know I have a dentist appointment coming in February and my out of pocket for my my dental x-rays because I have to have that once a year is going to be roughly over $200 that's my out of pocket and you can't cash flow it um because it changes my answer it depends on if you can because if you said to me hey listen uh every month whenever I have extra money, or for instance, in January, I'll have extra in transportation and I'll have extra here. I would normally say, yeah, any extra money that you have in your budget, you roll it over to whatever baby step you're on. So if you're on baby step two,

and you're like, yeah, I thought I was going to have, you know, a thousand to pay on debt, but because of these extra little tidbits that I had extra, now I have, you know, one thousand two hundred. Perfect. Now, if you tell me, though, but Jade, on February, I'm going to have this two hundred dollar X-ray bill and I can't. It's not if I do that, plus my normal budgeted stuff, I won't have enough. Then I'd say, yeah, you need to hold that aside and keep it. Now, when you say hold it aside, I'm talking physically. do I leave it in my checking account do I move it and I want to I don't have a I hear y'all talk about a high high yield interest high yield savings account I don't have one of those I have just a checking and a little savings account. And I do have my thousand in that.

I, you know, I'm working, my consumer debt is student loans and car, and I'm in the process of purchasing my home. So I do have money. I could cash flow it, but do I just leave it sitting in my checking account and ignore it? Or do I move it into the savings account so that I don't spend it? Well, if you're telling me that you have the cash flow and you can cash flow it, then we're using the money for whatever baby step you're on. So what baby step are you on? Sounds like baby step two. Yes. Okay. Then let's say at the end of the month you go through and every dollar tells you, wow, you had $20 left on transportation. You had $8 left over here, whatever that is, throw it towards your debt. And then it's not a thing of having to

move it out or transfer it over. Now let's pretend you were on, cause somebody else is listening to this. Let's pretend you're on baby step 3B and you're saving for a down payment and you say, okay, I have leftovers. Then you might transfer it to the high yield savings account or wherever it is that you're keeping those savings. I love this question. It's very practical. And this is the stuff that I think really matters on the day to day. Yeah. Hopefully that clarifies it. Let me see. Can I throw two things at you, Andrea? Yes, please. Okay. Number one, please, please, please. Well, tell me this. How much do you owe on student loans um 19 000 oh get this though i've retired from public school teaching and i've still owed 19 000 i know now now i'm i'm only 53 and i retired because public school just was a horrible situation and I was practicing my hi welcome to Walmart can I

help you skills because I was looking I was looking forward to that but a friend says hey so-and-so school is hiring why don't you apply and I was like are you serious y'all I'm in love good so I'm drawing my retirement from the state as well as a paycheck from my new position, and I'm making pretty much the same amount that I was as a teacher in the public school system. Okay, so how much do you owe on your car? Please don't hate me for this one. I don't want to hate you, but I may laugh at you. About $31,000.

Please don't tell me to sell it. I keep totaling my cars y'all well then you definitely shouldn't be driving my cars all right listen oh wait it's not it's not new it's a 2021 but it's it's that and then the more i listen to y'all i'm going oh my god but how do you find a dependable use y'all keep talking about these beater cars. Let me tell you something right now. You're talking to the wrong two people, Andrea. Just for us, tell us your income, exact numbers,

because I'm going to make this a black and white for you. What's your income? $5,560 monthly. What's your yearly income? Multiply that by 12 for me and tell me. Okay, so you're around 60,000. You're right at the line. We usually say that we don't want anything with a motor in it, vehicles being more than half of your yearly take home. Now there's that, and you're right on the

line. Plus the fact that you've got debt and you're talking to us about, you know, trying to make the most of your money, trying to make the most of your extra money. You've got $19,000 of student loans. If I were in your shoes today, I would 100% downsize this vehicle. 100%. Especially if you have a bad habit of wrecking your cars. By April, I would have – you are holding on to this student loan like it's like a, like a,

like my daughter used to hold her blanket. Like you love it. When did you take it out? How hard is it to like sell a car? And I even go in and looking at dealerships and trying to find a decent car. Andrea, the job that you do, you work with children. You create humans, yo.

And you're telling us, right. And you're telling us that selling a car and buying a new car is hard. What you do when you work

in the school system as a teacher, you do way harder work than that every single day. Get a friend. You're finding excuses right now

because you want to keep this car. It's not that difficult. Go on Kelly Blue Book. Find out how much it's worth and get a buddy who's done it before and they'll help you walk through it. Somebody you know has sold a car and they'll help you through it. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm

like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is It's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in

place. The cost of stinking pizza to get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Happy new year. You're listening to the ramsey show on the ramsey network i'm jade warshaw next to me dr john deloney taking your calls this hour talking about your life your money your relationships your careers just your general well-being i mean money touches everything so that's what we're talking about matter of fact we just launched a very cool tour that really speaks to all of this we just launched a brand new tour. It's Dr. John Deloney along with Dave Ramsey, and we're hitting the road coming to a city near you, and it's the Money and Relationships Tour. So this is really cool. You guys, John, you guys are kind

of putting a new twist on these live events, and tell us more about it. Yeah, every stop is going to be different. Soave and i speak all over the country and we're going to show up but usually when we do that we're telling people what we we want to talk about right and this one's going to be different everyone in the audience before the show is going to get to vote on what they want to hear about and dave and i will both be on stage for the whole night it's going to be a wild that's really cool you know what i think of when the unhinged evening i think of uh america's funniest home videos where you have a little thing and you lock in your vote that's exactly is it like that exactly yeah and um and then you you've been on stage with dave you never

really know where we're gonna go what's gonna happen and um i tend to think things are funny that he doesn't think it's funny so i think it's gonna be a fun a fun fun adventure of a night man i can't wait i'm looking i'm getting nervous about much and i'm i'm i can get pretty nervous about this i mean you could be talking about anything whether it's budgeting relationship everything from sex and intimacy to marriage to dating to and getting dave ramsey's dating tips will be legend um to wealth building to investing and all all, and everything in between. Love this. Okay, so this is coming to a city near you.

We've got a lot on the list. We've got Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, Kansas City. Get in where you fit in. Join Dr. I keep wanting to say Dr. Dave Ramsey. That is not right. Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney live and in person for a night where you'll laugh, learn, and change your life.

Get tickets to the Money and Relationships Tour at ramseysolutions.com slash tour. And if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, you can go ahead and click the link in the show notes. That's how it works. All right, let's go back to the phone lines. We've got Helen in Orlando, Florida. What's up, Helen? Hi, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. Yeah. So just a quick recap of me. I'm a single mom to four boys, one with special needs. And I have $23,000 in unsecured debt, $65,000 in school loans. I have a mortgage of $260,000. I don't have a car payment.

And my goal is to pay everything off and do what I need to do. The kickback is I'm a single mom and I only make $58,000 a year. And I've heard on the show and, you know, in other podcasts and things like that, that the best way to get out of debt is to make more money. One of the wonderful things that I actually took the job I have right now because I'm able to work remotely from home. I don't have to do extra, you know, payouts with having the kids in daycare or somebody coming home to watch my children. So it's been a blessing. But at the same time, I feel like I don't know what other steps to do. I have, I just got the book. I'm,

I downloaded the app and I started like putting my numbers in a few weeks ago, but I just feel like, oh my gosh, am I ever going to get it? What are, what should I do? Should I sacrifice? Cause I could get a better paying job. What would that mean? That would take me away from my kids. Would that mean daycare? What would that mean financially? Because you got to count that cost. Yes, exactly. So right now when I'm looking at the cost, it's better for me to stay in my job. It's consistent. I have my, my, you know, I have the income I need and I'm also home when the boys get home. And also for like summer or winter vacations, I'm able to be here and they're here. Yeah. I don't know. There's a part of this. Now you get to make the choice. Now, if you told me, hey, Jade, there's another job I can take. I'll earn more to the

point where it would out earn any other child care and it'd be worth it for me. And if you told me that, I'd be like, say less, like, let's go. But in this case, if you're telling me, hey, I might make more on paper. But once I add in the new child care fees that I'd have, then it's no longer worth it. And that's a real discussion. And at that point, it doesn't really make sense. There is a part of this, and John, feel free to chime in. There comes a point for all of us, and it'll be at a different point where we've done all the things we can do, right? You've cut your budget as much as you can cut it. You've added as much extra income as you can add. And you've, you know, sold as many things as you can

sell. And your income at that point is your income. And your margin is your margin. And you take that horse to the old town road and you ride till you can't no more like that. That is it. And you just have to ride out the timeframe at that point. And that's not fun, especially when you've been kind of getting high off of finding other things to sell and other ways to add money and other. And it's like you're able to create this excitement about it. But when those switches turn off and you're like, well, here I am, this is my margin. Then you're like you're just left with the time frame. And that is a very real feeling of like, oh, crap, you know, this three year, here it is for three years. Now, the good side of that is whatever that time frame is, you don't know what's

going to happen in that time frame. You could find another opportunity. You could, you know, have something come in your lap that gives you the opportunity to bring in more money in some form or fashion. But if for right now, that's where you are, there is a part of that where you go, okay, I have 500 extra dollars that I throw out this debt every single month, and I'm going to do my part. And as long as I keep doing my part, the debt will tick down. I am going in the right direction. And you're a single mom with four kids, one kid, special needs. You are in a season of life right now, period. And sometimes that is the case. We have people call in here all the time where they go, man, Jade, I've got three kids in daycare,

or I've got, you know, I'm in this season of life where just everything is expensive and there's not much I can cut. This is where we're at. And sometimes you just have to accept, all right, that's where I'm at. As long as I'm still going forward, I may not be going at the pace that I want to go, but this is probably only temporary and I have to own where I'm at right now. John? Helen, where's these four kids? Where's their dad? He sees them every other weekend. Yeah. How fresh is this divorce? You still there? I just lost you. You still there?

Uh-uh. Helen, you still there? She's there. She's just broken up. Get to a place where you got some clarity on that cell signal. Yeah, you still there, Helen? Helen, I'm losing you. Well, we'll try to help you out as best we can.

We can't really. Yeah. If we can get you back, we will. Let's see if we can get her back because I'd love to finish this conversation because I think it's instructive. But often on the heels, Jade, of a divorce, the parent who ends up with the majority of the custody

often wants to do the best they can to not quote unquote disrupt the the rest of of these kids lives right so i'm gonna keep the house the same i'm gonna keep the town the same i'm gonna keep their schools the same i'm gonna keep everything the same even if it means drowning financially being in a job making half of what i could be making somewhere else because the idea is I have so much guilt. I've already blown up their world enough that we're going to change that. I think I can get her back. Helen, you're back? Yeah. Yeah, I'm back.

Okay, great. Did you hear what I said? Did that ring true? No, I didn't hear that last part. What was it? All right, so we're going to be going up to a break here in a minute, but I'm going to hold you over because I think this is an important conversation, but we'll get to it the best we can. Absolutely. How fresh is this divorce? We're divorced for seven years. Okay.

The paperwork wasn't signed until two and a half years ago. Okay. How much of the world that you live in now is you trying to keep stability for these kids oh my gosh so much okay so it's a common thing that um sometimes we will try to do this thing called stability right we'll try to i don't disrupt i don't disrupt their lives at all i want everything to be calm and cool when reality says their lives have already been pretty disruptive. And so maybe the best thing is to rip the bandaid off and go do the next hard, terrifying, scary right thing, which might mean to move.

It might mean to go live with my parents for a year with four kids so that we can get our head above water. It might mean I'm going to love this season where I'm home with my kids, but I'm going to work like bananas to get me a second job. And maybe I take another full-time home job that I do late at night. Or like Jade says, I might just ride this season out. But I want you to not consider disruption an adverse thing right now. You might need to disrupt everything for one year, two years, maybe three years and clean this mess up. And that's the best long-term play for peace.

Thanks for staying with us, Helen. We'll be right back. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, my buddy, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls this hour, talking about your life, your money, whatever it is that concerns you. Money touches all of that. So give us a call. It's a live show. But until we get to the phone lines, we've got today's question of the day, which is brought to you by YRefi. If private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see a way out, you need YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you low fixed rate loans built for you. So go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash

Ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Drew in Colorado. Drew writes, I've been watching your YouTube channel for a few months now and I've become hyper-focused on my finances and my future. I have my starter emergency funds and I'm paying Drew writes, the same drive or aspiration aspirations we've talked about why i've become so focused but over a month has passed and she hasn't raised any finance or future related concerns should i stay in focus on myself or should we break up so i can prioritize my goals drew first i would say about like take about 30 off brother maybe 40 off and just slow the roll my My guy is laser. Terminator 2. Jay, tell me if this sounds familiar. I know I can be a lot sometimes when I get pretty into something. And my wife has learned, and she learned early on,

that sometimes when I get super fired up about a thing, she just says, okay, cool. And then I run around like a chicken in the yard balking and flapping my wings and then a month or two later i'm like are you gonna go out to eat right or whatever my thing is right microplastics that's microplastics dude we gotta get rid of everything she's like all right there was a season when we were newlyweds um when i was like i was doing i had i kept these long spreadsheets i didn't have a lot of friends but i was like these n equals one experiments with diets and so she would literally at the beginning of the month she'd be like what are we this month and

i'd be like we're raw vegan and she's like oh okay that's the hardest wow it was yeah just but i would do all these different we're full keto this month anyway she just let me run and when i read this i i see a guy who found us on YouTube. Yeah. It wouldn't surprise me. Maybe I'm wrong, Drew. If you found several cool things to rabbit hole down on YouTube, we just happen to be one of them.

A love that you picked us. Awesome. I do too. Yeah. And you have seen the light and you're like, man, I want to do this for me. And then you say, I have a plan for how much i want to earn what time of home how i want and how i'm going to get there and you are not in the in the world with a fiance of where you are planning your job your home you're planning the life y'all want to

have the world y'all going to create And so it sounds like you've gotten really excited and you have announced to this person who is deciding whether to hitch her wagon to you forever and you to her. And you're telling her how things are going to go, where you're going to live, what y'all going to do. And she's like,

I'm going to sit over here and have my coffee. She's writing her own letter somewhere. Yeah, she is. Exactly. Yes, exactly. Just a different YouTube channel, right? So I don't know,ade i like should i stay and focus on myself before or should we break up listen it's only been a month he said only

well he said over a month which makes me think it's like 31 days or like 32 days sam and i were having the same conversation this morning we were talking about um somebody uh somebody commented on something i wrote on social media and we were talking about that. And the context is, you know, we're big on if you are following the Ramsey plan, whether it's the baby steps or, you know, whatever it is that we teach here and you're married or you're about to be married, it's very important for you guys to be on the same page. I subscribe to that. I 100% believe that.

It's important to be on the same page. However, there's a part of that where a lot of us have told ourselves that that happens instantly and it doesn't it takes a long time like what sam and i were saying is we were two people who were what i would say 100 aligned and it still took us a long time to just do the things the right way and not try to find workarounds and not try like so the point in this is it's only been a month and you're not married so she's probably also still deciding how she fits into this who she is here I wouldn't just cut it off right there at the knees I would it takes time for people to go oh I was doing something this way um and I was okay

with what I was doing you're suggesting something new let me get my head around that i'm not saying no help me understand it what is this going to mean for me and i've also found uh john that uh i'm i'm treading lightly here i've also found that ball dude different like depending on your your time of life like the things that i did when i was single and could just flip a switch and be like i'm doing it like like you said raw vegan you know and i'm going in and then it's like okay now i get married and it's a little bit harder but still somewhat easy now sam and i are the ones doing it then you add kids then you add a nine to five job then you add you know the more layers you add the what i find is the more you stop and think okay

what's this going to mean for me because it because everything's a trade everything's yes yes and so i say all that to say uh it's not a light switch uh changing how you handle your money for you is emotional and for the people connected to you is emotional and they're going to have to go through that journey and they're going to have to do whatever rounds that you did and it might take them longer it doesn't mean they're not going to get there right you know so we jay we probably the most common question i've received over the last five years of doing the show is this is this question is how do i get my partner on board in some shape or fashion that question. I always think it's worth getting beneath the plan, the Ramsey way, getting beneath that.

Right. And except in cases of extreme pathology, somebody's not well or somebody is just a jerk or whatever. The two words that I've seen resonate the most have been the words peace and or the words freedom. And if you drew, watch YouTube and the light switch came on, Oh dude,

I grew up in a house where my parents were stressed about money all the time. And I don't want that for my life. I'm going to become my own bank. I'm going to get an emergency fund. I'm not going to owe anybody anything. Then what you really want in your life is peace. What you really want in your life is free. Nobody will tell me and

my family what we're going to do. Then you sit down with your fiance and say, what does peace look like to you? What does freedom look like to you? And what you may find is, and I just had this conversation recently with a family that's very wealthy. They won't pay off their mortgage. And one of them said their dad, who's elderly at this point, was adamant. You never pay off their mortgage and one of them said their dad who's elderly at this point was adamant you never pay off your house and it was one of those old it was an old like rule of life right but it wasn't just a math problem there it was my dad was real successful but on this one thing i'm gonna have to go against my right so it had a lot of layers to it. Yes.

And so all I have to say is freedom may be look different, but y'all can, everyone wants to have that conversation about what does peace in our home feel like? And she may look at you and say, peace feels like you get off YouTube. Sometimes listen, peace feels like you're not coming at me with a new workout plan and a new money plan and a new diet plan.

And that's just me as my house. Right. But like a new thing every month, peace might feel like so drew don't break up with her unless unless this is unless this is already going to happen anyway and you have a fiance now you're not focusing on yourself you're you're beginning to focus on the world y'all are going to create together so and by the way you are focusing on yourself but y'all know what i mean underneath Underneath that, sit down and say, okay, say we get married a year in, what does freedom look like

for us? What does peace look like for us? And by the way, sorry for just beating you over the head with my YouTube channel stuff, right? Instead of inviting you in. So that's just what I would think. Yeah. You just, I think you have to have space for her to be her and you to be you and whatever clicked for him watching that is not necessarily going to hit the same nerve for her and he's got to find what that nerve is that's right and yeah I mean I'm just looking at the sentence over and over however my fiance hasn't shown the same driver aspirations listen there are certain things if Sam Warshaw is talking to me about I'm like this is the most boring topic ever. And I have zero interest in what you're telling me right now.

But because I love you, I'm going to listen and I'm probably going to act like I'm interested. But you're going to have to find a way to get me interested in this. When I start talking about track split times in the US, 4x4, my wife's eyes roll in the back of her head. I'm like, you realize that split time? She's like, you realize how little I care. Yeah. Which is part of it, right? It's part by four. My wife's eyes roll in the back of her head. I'm like, you realize that split time? She's like, you realize how little I care. Yeah. Which is part of it, right? It's part of it.

My husband used to try to make me watch this show on Netflix. It was like called Abstract or something. And I literally told him, I said, this is the most boring show in history. Please don't make me watch it. He's like, Jade, I promise you it's good. He hasn't convinced me yet. It's a journey. So that's the takeaway.

It's a journey. Peace and freedom. Everybody can agree there. That's right. This So that's the takeaway. Peace and freedom. Everybody can agree. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show. All right. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, my colleague and good buddy, Dr. John Deloney, taking your calls this hour. Triple eight, eight, two, five, five-825-5225 is the number. This is a live show.

So if you want to call in, do it now. Hey, I also want to mention to you guys that the third hour of the show continues on in the Ramsey Network app. So if you don't have the Ramsey Network app, you need to download it today, especially if you want to watch the rest of the show. You can do that by going into the app store. You can do that by clicking the show notes. And, of course, Google Play is where you go if you're an Android user.

So that's where I want you to go. That's what I want you to understand at the end of this hour. So let's go to the phone lines. We've got Kane, who's in Birmingham, Alabama. What's up, Kane? Hey, good afternoon, guys. You bet. Yeah, how can we help you today?

My question is, I have 18 more months until I pay my house off. Nice. I have all my money in a high-yield savings account, which is $140,000, drawing 3.8%. Okay. I was just wondering, while I continue to say to pay my house off, should I put it in the stock market or leave it in the high yield savings account only drawing 3.80%? Such a good question. Yeah, I would leave it exactly where it's at. It's only drawing 3.8%, but for the time, I mean, that's pretty much guaranteed. You're not going to lose money.

And since you have such a low, it's a short tail on this, you said 18 months, I would definitely leave it there. We found that kind of the five-year point and more is where we might say, okay, yeah, you could invest it. If you said, hey, I think I'm going to be doing this in the next five to seven years, I'd say, okay, yeah, like drop it in an index fund in a brokerage account, that'd be fine. But kind of that five-year and less point, it becomes really volatile. And it's not, it's never guaranteed, but at that five-year or less mark, there's a very good chance of not really knowing what will have happened with that money. And so for that reason, I would say leave it exactly where it's at. I'm really proud of you to have

a paid-off home. Thank you. Really, really good. How long have you been doing the steps? I guess since I was like 22, but I didn't know I was doing the steps. I found Dave Ramsey like four years ago, and I was doing the steps already. That's good. Just because I came from like a childhood of not having any money. Well, I'm proud of you. Very, very, very good. Very good question.

I love it. Paid off home in 18 months. Yeah, dude, that's pretty wild. And I love, one of my favorite people to meet in this wild world that we live in now, Jade, is when somebody's like, y'all have a whole business that just tells people to live on less than they make?

Yeah. Dave Ramsey's got a whole bunch of houses. And you mean you just tell people pay off your debts and don't borrow money that's your business over and over again Kane from Birmingham's like

yeah I didn't come from much I just decided I was going to make some and save it and I just love it's my favorite person common sense man isn't it it's so good alright we got Jessica in Atlanta, Georgia. What's up, Jessica? Hi, thanks for taking my call.

You bet. Hey, so about seven or eight years ago, I found a debt relief company to help me pay off credit cards to work with the companies. And so we set up a plan where I would pay them $1,200 a month for one year, and then that would be enough to pay off all of the cards. So at the end of 12 months, I get a note saying, well, all that money kind of went into a savings account. And then we started working with each creditor and we couldn't pay this one off.

And maybe that was in the fine print. I don't know, but that's not what I was expecting. And at that point, I was mad and just let it go. So they weren't able to strike a deal for less than what you owed, and so therefore the money that you had stacked up with them wasn't enough to pay it off. Is that what you're saying? Right, right.

Okay, so. And that was, that was like eight years ago. And no one's ever contacted me about it. But at the same time, it shows up on my credit. And so my credit score is really low, you know, I mean, that's it. I mean, this is like 13 years old. I just assumed it would like drop off. Why?

But I guess I was wrong. That's what I thought. I thought like after seven or eight years, it dropped off. The, the unpaid debt you mean? Right. Well, no, I mean, it's, it's just's just at that point really you're lucky no one's sued you for it it sounds like you knew about it i'm just going to be honest it kind of sounds like you knew that the money was remaining there it wasn't what you wanted but you're kind of just

hoping it'd go away on its own correct and it didn't because this thing is eight years old. So how much are we talking about here? Well, they say that it's now $8,733. What was the original tab? I don't know. I think it was more like $3,000 or $4,000. So have you tried contacting them? Whoever's holding this debt, have you tried contacting them?'s holding this debt have you tried contacting them well that's my issue like i mean i guess i could call the credit card company which was chase i guess i could call them and say who has it i don't think they have it anymore no i don't know who has

it i don't know who to negotiate with i just know i want it gone and whatever i need to do i know somebody can negotiate that price down. I mean, it's you. If I'm you today, you've got a couple pieces of homework. Number one, yeah, contact Chase and find out, say who's holding this debt because they probably sold it off a long time ago and some debt collector is holding it.

The next thing is gather up your money and say, okay, I may not have $8,733, but like offer them 20% or 30% or see what you can get because you're going to be able to settle this. It's so old that you're going to be able to settle this for an amount. And when you do settle it, just make sure you get it in writing and make sure it's completely paid off, that they send you, that it's a zero balance. And make sure you get it in writing and make sure it's completely paid off, that they send you, that it's a zero balance. And make sure that you have the money saved up for when you are ready to make that deal because they're going to want it. When you say, hey, will you make a deal?

They're going to want to start that process almost immediately. Do you have $2,500 cash? Yes. Okay. I would find out. I would do everything I can to find out who it is. And I'll call them and say, I'll give you $2,500 today right now. And you're not going to give me your checking account number, never, ever, ever, but you'll put on a prepaid debit card and you'll pay them off. Say, I'll give it to you right now if you'll settle this thing in full and you send me something in writing today. You send me a contract offer, $2,500 in writing right right now I'll pay it right this second and we'll

be done they think they will never see this money do what I need to go get a prepaid credit card now you get whatever it is send them a money order once you figure out what the like once you settle on the amount don't give them your checking account number and just know you're probably going to have to talk to five or six different bozos before you get to the right one because when you call these companies they're they want to give you the run around okay so you're going to have to really lock in and say listen this is all i have this is all i'm paying this is eight years old if you ever expect to get any money it's today like you're going to have to lock in like a dog on a bone to get this done and they will say mean things about you they'll talk about your family They'll talk about your family.

They'll talk about your hair color. They'll talk about an old boyfriend you had back in middle school. They will find ways to poke your pressure buttons. They don't think they will ever see this money again. So the fact that you pick up the phone and call and say, I'll give you $2,500 right now. They probably bought this debt for 700 bucks. Yeah.

And so if you offer it. It's 13 years old. It is, but here's the other side of it. Here's the other side of it. At some point you borrowed three or $4,000 from somebody and you said, hey, if you let me have this today, I'll pay you back. Right. So the other part of this is now that you're in a position to pay this off, go pay the

debt, go pay the debt. It's cost you more just on your soul. Right. And so if you call them and say, I got cash right now, I settle it let's be done make it happen okay is that cool and they're gonna be mean like jade says they're gonna we can't do it i talked to my manager he says i can only do it for six thousand you say okay cool i'm gonna hang up in five four three and let you hang up hang up and then call them right back And some other person will answer the phone. Somebody will settle that for you. And a buddy of mine says, who used to work in collections says,

call at the end of the month. And they try to close their books at the end of the month. Oh, that makes sense. And so they're more likely to say, okay, let's take it right now. Let's do it right now. Let's do it right now. So just some thoughts there, but you settle it. That's a great way. Listen, that's a great way to start the year out is make sure that you're going back. You're taking control of the things in your money that you can take control of. And as a matter of fact, if you want to make sure that you're staying on track with your financial goals, we've got a quiz out there to check your progress. So head out there. It's our get started assessment. It's on the Ramsey homepage there. So take that assessment.

If you had it, haven't done it yet. You need to do it now. That does it for this hour of the show. John, thanks for hosting with me. Folks in the booth, thank you so much. We'll see you inside of the Ramsey Network app after this. From the Ramsey Network app, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, chopping it up with you all hour long, taking your calls about your life, your money, your career, your relationships, your mental wellness. So if you want to get involved, the show is still live, even though we're here behind the app. 888-825-5225 is the way you get it. All right, John, let's go straight to these phone lines. We got Todd. He's in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Todd? Nothing much. Just trying to figure out my life. All right, let's hope.

Hey, we are too, man. You called the right show. Yeah, I used to be a nurse making about $70,000, $80,000. And now I started a business and now I'm making a lot more money but i'm still broke um what's the business i make a uh real estate i flip houses okay um what have you made the last few years uh well i make around five hundred six hundred, $600,000 a year. Okay. But, I mean, I'm still dealing with the same problems I was dealing with when I was making, you know, the 70-80. I got a wife and three kids, so.

Did you grow up with money, or is this new for you? New. New? From me and my wife. Brand new. So there's an old counseling adage, an old counseling saying where they say, beware of, it's the tyranny of accomplishing all of your dreams because you'll find out that you go with you wherever you go.

Does that make sense? So the kid, and I'm like you a kid who grew up like not knowing where money's coming from it money's an electric conversation in the house everybody's always nervous about money suddenly you get a job you get successful when you make that money you think that's going to cure that anxiousness inside your body but it doesn't man and so then did you did you start buying cool stuff that you always thought would make you happy like the car and the house and the whatever yeah um not i'm not a i'm not a big uh flashy guy so i we didn't buy well did buy a ton of stuff but not a ton of flashy stuff did she but yeah Did she? Yeah, my wife is more the spinner and I'm more the saver. Okay.

So there's a clash. You know, but I just don't know. I feel like I'm lacking the leadership of setting things in order so that there's something to be followed. So let's say this. Jade's going to walk you through it, man. Let's say, can I change your narrative just a little bit? Yeah.

I want you to look at this not as a failure of character or a failure of some sort of leadership. It is, but I want you to look at this as a new set of skills that you don't have that you can learn. Just like you learn to flip houses, just like you learn how to put in a pick line when you're nursing, how you learn how to do all that stuff, is a set of skills that you've never experienced before.

How to deal with money, how to save it, how to give it away generously, how to say no to family members, all that stuff. We got you. But I don't want you to go to bed every night beating yourself up

that you're making this kind of money and you're still struggling because you're like all of us. Okay? Same team here. It's just like, okay, I'm not a bad guy. I'm a good man. I work hard.

I provide for my family. And I got some skills I got to learn because I'm in a new world. Does that make sense? I hope that lightens your load a little bit. Yeah, I definitely fire myself up at night trying to figure it out. I'm struggling. All right, so we got you. Jade's going to pull you apart here.

Here we go. Yeah, so first off, I just want to kind of validate the fact that a lot of us think that if we make enough money, we don't really need a plan because we'll be able to out-earn whatever it is that we want to do. And that's not true, and you're learning that the hard way, and I hate that you're learning it the hard way. But the good news is you're learning it. So give me a picture of what's going on, and then I'll help you get out and help you figure out some better habits going forward so tell me is it debt is it payments that are that are getting at you every month well I don't know if it's payments um I have student loans

okay how much going to school um me and my wife together is about $100,000. Okay. Tell me what other debt you have. Personal loans is at $30,000. Okay. And then we have one car payment. Okay. Which was at $48,000, around around 48,000.

Fine, okay. Credit cards? Yeah, the personal loans and credit cards. I was putting credit cards with the personal loans. Okay. Anything else? Tell me about your mortgage. What do you pay every month?

I'm sure it's fine, but just tell me. So we pay about $5,500 a month for our mortgage. We went to build a house around the time that the interest rates went up. Yeah, that's not your problem, though. $5,000 a month on your salary. I mean, you bring home $30,000 a month. So that's not the issue. And what's the full amount that you owe on that house?

I'm sure it's fine, but just tell me. It's like $860 or something like that okay so that's also fine the question i have what you said you flip houses are you leveraging money to do that uh i am leveraging money but there's no i use private lenders that i know so there's no monthly payment i pay at the end once i'm done flipping everything. Ooh, that sounds very risky. How much are you going in every month to do something? Like what are you borrowing from these private lenders? So I usually borrow from them.

You know, the houses are not very expensive like what do you have out right now with them so I probably have out about close to 300,000 okay that's a lot listen John will be the first one to tell you you can act like that's nothing but your body

does feel that so let's let's just acknowledge that fact okay so what I see looking at this, nothing strikes me as, oh my gosh, like you're never going to be able to overcome this. Your house is fine. The car, you can pay it off in two years or less with your salary. That should be done in a year. It's fine. Your student loans. All of what I see here is you're out of debt, except your mortgage. You're out of debt this year, if you're thoughtful. Okay. So the problem that you're feeling, the reason that you're feeling

like everything is super scattered. And when I say you're out of debt, I'm not talking about the leveraged money. I'm talking about the consumer debt you have here and the student loans. The problem you're feeling is you just don't have a plan, like John said. And no matter what, everyone needs a budget. Okay. Budgets are like toothbrushes everyone needs them without it things get ratchet really quick right it doesn't matter who you are so your budget is your plan and with your income it's saying okay with this thirty thousand dollars or whatever it is that we have every single month here's what we must do we must do these items and those are the items that are prioritized those are the things we all know our mortgage our, our phones, our insurances, all of that stuff is on the budget.

Then you go through and you add, and here's the things that we'd like to do. These are the fun things. And you go through and you add that on the budget. Here's the things that are kind of variable like food and groceries. And you add that on the budget. Anything that you can think of, Todd, that you might spend money on, you put it on the budget. And when you do that, you can at least see, oh, okay, we spend $1,500 a month on groceries and we spend $800 a month on DoorDash. At least you see it. And with your income, there's a lot that you can afford to have fun on. But if you're not putting everything in its rightful place, you're always going to feel scattered. So we're going to give you every dollar and we want you to do the premium version. We'll give you a free version, but I want you to sign up and put your

own skin in the game to do the premium version. And I want you to do this budget tonight with your wife and sit down and go, let's just get our eyes on it because you can't solve a problem if you can't see it. And on your income, I want all of this debt cleaned up this year. There's no reason that you can't do it. Nine months. Yeah. Nine months. Yeah. Get it done. And quit leveraging money. You make enough. You can do this in cash. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us in this new year, 2025. I'm excited, John. Are you? I do this morning. Every year, my wife and I get away for our strategic plan. Here's what it is. Yes. I go through and here's our net worth. Here's where we're at. I went through all my guitars. I went through everything. If I die today, here's what it is. And here's where all

the insurances are. So we go through that and then we do something that's become my favorite thing. We had to do it out of necessity so we could stay married years ago. But how did you experience me this year as a husband? How did you experience me as a dad? Like where are my blind spots? And man, you get out a notebook and you start writing and it's-

Is it brutal? It's probably the most, for lack of better terms, the most intimate conversations we have throughout a year. And it's not brutal. It's so cathartic. Especially now, we've been married long enough, 20-something years, that I kind of know what's coming.

Yeah. And we get a time like, here's how I thought I did this year. Yeah. Just showed up for each other. And then we game plan it, man. And then we get nuts and bolts and here's how much money we want to save every month and here's our goals to buy stuff so we man we had a great holiday and i it's always my favorite time of year is to sit down and say

like same team same team and everybody puts their hands in yeah not everybody just us too but strong side strong side that's right weak side that's exactly what it is man it is so i love it i love it sam and i did the same thing although he's sitting out in the audience i'm looking at him i think we need to do the thing of how do we show up we don't do that we need to do that you gotta get r.i.w man because because you give somebody else permission to say like about june and you're like all right here it comes i know but it's awesome it is man so good so good that's good all right yeah that's that's that one was for me because we always do the financial planning stuff yeah that's my favorite part yeah but it's good to kind of get and actually we get the nuts and bolts down pretty

quick um it's more like my son just finished his first semester of ninth grade like we got three and a half years and he'd gone oh right and And so what is that going to look like and what must be true right now so that when he leaves, when life throws curveballs at him and hits him in the mouth, which it will, he thinks, I got one safe anchor someplace. And that starts with me and my wife making sure our marriage is good and then our home's good and then our money's good. So that, right? Well, I will say we did one thing this year that we had never done before and i recommend it and i'm gonna i'm gonna butcher this so hopefully you'll get the gist out of it but it was from a podcast i was listening to and the gist of it is where you audit your year and you go

through and basically say make a list of all the things that you feel like went well or went right or were positives right and then you make the list of all the things that just did not go well. They drained you. And the weird thing is, you can have something on both sides. That's right. And so my husband and I sat down and did that. And what was wild is our lists were virtually the same.

They ended up matching pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when you do that, you can go through and go, okay, this year, here's what must be different in order for us to not experience that again. That's right. And so I'm just all about it.

Money is a big part of it, but just day-to-day things as well. So very, very cool. It's the magic word, intentional. Intentional, yes. Intentional, man. Yes. Audit your life, audit your money, all of it. All right, let's take a call.

Let's go to Matt in Austin. Tejas, what's going on, Matt? Hey, thanks for taking my call, y'all. Hope y'all are doing all right today. Yeah, we are. How can we help? What's up? Yeah, so I just joined FPU in November,

and I've been going through, and I got Baby Step 1 knocked out pretty quickly, and now I'm climbing the mountain. I have about 62K in debt. 24 and a half of that is in a car that I am all for getting rid of. The only problem is I'm upside down in about 10K. And then I have 27,000 in student loans. And then the real scary one is I have $7,900 in back taxes. So I'm trying to figure out, like, what should my first step be? I mean, I want to get out from underneath this car because it's costing me $600 a month. And that would free up a lot of money for other stuff.

Is it just you? I'm not sure exactly. Or family. Is it just you or do you have a wife, kids, anything like that? No, no, I'm single, no children. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would not let the upside down-ness keep me from getting out of this loan. So, cause in my, in my mind I'm going, okay, I can either owe $24,000 or I can owe $15,000 or I can owe $15,000 or I can owe $12,000, right? So in my mind, I'm thinking you get a loan for the 10K plus 3,000 to get you a little beater car,

something like that. And it's just temporary because with that $600 freed up, it's gonna help your snowball go a lot more quickly. So I still would do that deal. There does come a point where it's not really worth it, but I don't think you're quite there yet. So I'd probably go ahead and do that deal to clear that because you need that $600 a month. And it's not going to be quite

$600 because you're still going to have to pay the $10,000 loan, but maybe it'll free up half, right? And so anything helps. I'm doing Amazon Flex on the side right now, which gives me about an extra $200 a week. So I'm just trying to pull together all the resources I possibly can, and that's a big one. Yeah, and so I would do that. The taxes, when it comes to your debt snowball, not just because of the balance, but because of the nature of the type of debt, that's always going to come first. So those back taxes need to be very, very first on the list. Everything needs to go towards that in your snowball until that's knocked out.

And then onto the student loans and that's it, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, there's, well, I got like some dental work that I'm paying off, but it's like, it's like a thousand dollars and I'm just making payments on that. So yeah, it's really just these these bigger items that are hanging over my head yeah who's who's scarier um owing money to a dentist owing money to a car dealer or the government the government right i want them dude i want them out of my drawer asap man so whatever you do, I would scratch and claw and do whatever you got to do to get them gone. What's your living situation? Are you renting or? Yeah, I rent. I don't own a

house or any other assets. So yeah, I rent and I don't live alone. So it's shared expenses there as well. Okay, good. Yeah. I think that you're doing everything you can on this. I love that you already have a side hustle. And the good news about your debt is you get to decide how quickly this goes. You're a guy. You've got roommates. You're single. There's not a whole lot keeping you from going absolutely ham on this, okay?

Like you're already doing Amazon Flex. Do more because you can knock this out super duper quickly if you just get on this. Okay. Like you're already doing Amazon flex, do more because you can knock this out super duper quickly. Uh, if you just get on it and for you, the sacrifice, it's still a sacrifice, but you're going to feel it a lot less than if you were married with three kids. Right. So I always tell people to take advantage of that time of life if they can. Uh, and other than that, I mean, if I were you, if you're not, are you doing every dollar? Yes. Yeah.

I haven't been able to get it down to, to just ever, or to, to budget every dollar yet, but I'm meeting with a coach. Um, I'm just, um, just to haven't finished it. Matt, what are you, what are you for living? Uh, I am a marketing manager for a law firm. I can guarantee you, you don't need a coach to help you get to every dollar. No. That's an expensive procrastination tool. You are too smart.

Yeah. And you work with surgeons there when it comes to excuses, right? Yeah. Yes. I worked in lawyers for many, many years. I know exactly that world, dude. dude listen tonight you could solve that and just just for me just as a fellow texan i've got a thing in my head i'm just guessing what's what's the car uh it's a jeep cherokee trailhawk of course of course it is man okay so for every guy out there who thinks, you know

what? I don't have a romantic partner. I don't have a million dollars, but a truck or a Jeep would make me the man that I want to be. Can you just give them a quick word of wisdom? Don't do it. Buy the 10 year old 4 runner buy the camera even if you got to man

dude hey you're on the path brother yeah if there's I don't know you sound like

you've exhausted all the options but man if there's a way you can earn some more money if you can find it even if that means

switching jobs right now man figuring that thing out because you're you've got it in the now. Now it's just about execution and man, paying off seven grand of the government's expensive, paying off a car is expensive. It just stinks, but here we are. Yeah. And listen, with that budget, like John said, don't make any more excuses. It's okay. It's not going to be perfect the first time and that's fine. Make it the best you can. You're going to learn from it. Your first budget is research, right? It's you thinking that this might be it, and then you learn from it.

You bust it the first month. That's fine. You're learning. You're figuring out exactly what you need to put on it and how much. This is The Ramsey Show. What's up? We're talking about your life and your money. This is The Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, getting himself settled. You ready to rock, John? Always, man. Always. All right. Let's do it. We got David, who's in Portland, Oregon.

What's going on, David? Hey, folks. I appreciate you taking my phone call. So real briefly, I've been following Dave Ramsey for about 15, 20 years, but has never really followed his program. I preach it to people, but, you know, the budgeting part's always been tough. In 2020, I started a sewer and plumbing business. And five years later now, I'm selling that business for $1.8 million.

Nice. Yeah, not too bad. Not too shabby. A lot of sleepless nights. The deal is kind of like we're retaining 10% equity. We're doing a 5% note. We have about $290,000 in commercial loans, like equipment. And so all said and done, we're probably going to end up after taxes and broker fees and all that stuff,

probably around like $600,000 to $800,000, uh, just all the little factors. My, yeah, my fear, we, uh, my fear, my question, the reason I'm calling is because I really don't want this blessing to go to waste and having struggled with maintaining a budget. Cause I've always had this mindset. It's like, well, I'll just go earn more money if we don't have enough. You know what I mean? Like just an abundance mindset, but I don't want this. I don't want to look back 10 years later and say, oh my gosh, we had this, you know, seven, $800,000 and what do we really have to show for it? Yeah. So what do you think you want to do with it? Well, so I mean, it's one of those things, we owe about $400,000 on our house. I have a student loan that's about $24,000. I have a car payment, which is more kind

of economic outpatient care for my daughter of $23,000. And, you know, the Ramsey message in my head says, pay everything off. The fear is that we pay everything off and then we're still living, not quite paycheck to paycheck, but it feels like we're living paycheck to paycheck. How? Tell me the math on that. Yeah. So, no, it's kind of crazy. You know, like I finally did the budgeting app last month and I literally spent $700 on coffee, just a drive-through coffee, right? You know, so just things like that. I don't think about it. I don't think about it because I have the funds to do it, you know? And so all of a sudden I'll pay off my house,

I'll pay off student loans, pay off the car loan, and then I'm still doing the same stupid activity. So my question is, how do I get over this? You're classifying things incorrectly. Buying coffee is not stupid. You've clearly shown that that's something you value. Yeah, you like coffee. The only thing is, plan for it so that at the end of the month, when one of your kids gets sick, you don't have to go knock on the door of bob mastercard or tim visa and say hey will you come take care of my family because i valued coffee more earlier this month gotcha that's like buy coffee dude i am yeah i am the least bougie guy you'll meet and i love bougie coffee right i love it but i plan it. That's just the difference.

Hey, can you tell me, David, tell me your house payment right now. How much is it? So we owe $400,000. It's about $2,300 a month. Okay. And tell me what you pay in student loans every month. It's about $315. Okay. And tell me what you pay in your car payment every month. $390. Okay. So what I see is someone who's suddenly going to have over $3,000 extra a month on top of the $700 that they were already spending on coffee, because that's what happens when you pay things off. You get money back in your day-to-day, month-to-month, year-to-year cash flow. That's actually your money. It's not money that you actually owe to someone else. So I get on the very like tippity tippity top of the surface,

I understand how people feel a little bit of fear about taking a large sum of money and paying off debt. But when you really do the math on it, it doesn't make sense. It's completely unfounded because the truth is you're going to have more money than you've ever had because you want that. Now the actual equation is a real equation because net worth, we're talking net worth, what you owe minus what you owe. And so now you're going to actually see, oh, okay. Like I I'm in the positive. I'm not minus $400, $400,000 on the house. I'm not minus 24,000 on student loans. I'm not minus $24,000 on student loans. I'm actually living in abundance of what's really mine. And that feels far more wealthy and far more rich than kind of playing that game of, well, I'll just pretend this doesn't really exist. And this

$600,000 is actually all mine. So that's... Here's a way you can hedge it. You ready? Yep. Pay it all off pay everything off okay get this check for seven hundred thousand dollars and pay everything off and put a hundred grand in high yield savings account and just sit and what i want you to do for all you have to do i'm asking you to just do it for two months 60 days and here's what I'm willing to bet. The thing you are searching for, that wholeness, that feeling of peace that you are searching for by buying stuff, by pretending money just needs to be something you don't quote unquote worry about. I would be willing to bet you will find that on the other side of nobody can tell you what to do.

Nobody owns you. You and your family are free. And here's what's cool. In 60 days, if you hate it, if you hate the idea that no matter what happens in the economy, nobody can come take your house away, no matter who's president, they can't come take your house away.

If you don't like that feeling, go on day 61 and take out a $400,000 HELOC against your house and spend away, brother. And take out $24,000 of student loans. Go buy another car. Go buy another car. I bet you won't. Yeah. You see what I'm saying?

So if you hate this life and we're wrong, then go take out a huge mortgage on, go take out a HELOC on your house and call it good, man. Do you get what I'm saying? Like you have the opportunity now to see what it feels like on the other side of the ledger that most people never get to experience because they either a won't sacrifice for the two, three, five, seven years it takes to get there,

or they don't have a windfall like you're about to get. The funny thing is, and I, I, I get it. What we're talking about, David is an unknown for you you because most people have never felt what it feels like to pay off a home.

Most people have been in some form of debt all their life. So what we're talking about is something that most people have never experienced and the people around them have never experienced. It's not like you can look at your dad or your best friend and go, oh, well, they're doing it. Most people don't have that and haven't seen it. And so we're kind of talking about this thing that for a lot of people feels like a mirage or something that's not real, but it actually is.

And I love what John said. He's basically saying, listen, try it. Test it out and see, and you'll see that it's real. And I've never heard anybody call into the show. Not one person has ever paid their house off and said, ah, I screwed that up. Yeah, like, why did you guys tell me to get debt-free? This is the worst thing ever. No one's ever said it. They never said it.

No, no, yeah. And the fear is, I think where the fear comes from, because I know it's irrational, and in my heart, it doesn't feel right. My brain, it says, like, hey, this makes all the sense, but, you know, growing up in poverty, growing up poor,

you know, like, I really don't want to screw this up. You what i mean and that's where and that's why i want to can i tell you something just yeah you're not going to okay you're not going to that's i mean that's what this that's that's you're gonna have to practice um and it sounds nuts to somebody who is listening to this that didn't grow up in a in a kinetic scared household like you did okay you're gonna have to practice what it feels like to have peace in your life because because peace is gonna feel like stress to you like another shoes about to drop like another hands about to come across the back your head like about somebody like they're gonna cut the lights off again right and you're gonna have to practice peace as, I've done it all right. And if you

ever need to, you can pull up your EveryDollar app and you can see it. And I got $140,000 in my high yield savings account. We're good. And then what's going to happen is you're going to get a check on the first day of that 60 day challenge I'm giving you. And you're going to realize I have $3,600 left. And you're just going to roll that over to that high-yield savings account. And then the next month, you're going to have $3,600 more, and you're going to roll that over. And then you're going to sneeze, and you're going to be up $12,000, $15,000, $18,000,

and you're going to realize, oh, this is how it happens. You get what I'm saying? Yep, absolutely. And listen, drink your coffee, man. Drink your coffee. Take your wife out on a nice date. Get your kids good shoes. Do those things you couldn't do. Just plan for it, man. Just make a plan. The plan is your friend. It's the crutches you're going to walk on as you're practicing this new thing called freedom and peace. I'm proud of you, brother. Congratulations, dude. Way to go. This is The Ramsey Show.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. We've got your scripture and quote of the day. Jesus said to them, no one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of god luke 962 that's strong then alexander graham bell said when one door closes another opens but we often look so regretfully upon the closed door that we don't see the one that is opened for us boo yeah all right that's good you know what the show needs a good booyah a good booyah i haven't said that in a really long time. You know who says that? Kelly Daniels in there because James Childs needs to take six to seven weeks off for the holidays. And Kelly's in here.

And dude, talk about someone who says booyah all the time. Really? Kelly Daniels. Dude, she drops more booyahs than anybody I know. Do you also say put that in your pipe and smoke it? No, she raises the roof a lot and she says boo-yah a lot. I do none of that. I raised the roof like during this three-hour episode.

I saw it. I'm with you on that. She raised it. Kelly's always raising the roof. Oh my gosh. There's nothing wrong with it, John. You just wish that you could do it with the same panache that we do. Okay.

Let's go to the phone lines and talk about things that really matter with Jaden in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Jaden? Hey guys. Super big fan. And I'm glad you guys took my call. Yeah. We're happy to help. What can we do today? All right. So I'll try to make this sweet. So my girlfriend and i are looking to buy a house and i know i've seen before that you guys say oh girlfriend and it's not permanent be careful the reason why we're buying this house is we're doing things out of order but it's it's she's more than just my girlfriend um what is she except she's just your girlfriend yeah what is she if she's more than

just your girlfriend i would the step was to engaged, but then this offer came up, and so now we're kind of changing priorities. But that was the next thing on our agenda. What's the offer that came up? This is easily my favorite call of the day. Keep going. Listen, I'm going to take you to task all day long on this. This is so good. Okay, so what came up that is more important than getting married?

So we've been dating for five years, so anyways, yeah. So we are looking to buy a house. We wanted to travel. We wanted to get married. All a bunch of stuff in 2025. But she works for a home building company where they build giant neighborhoods. And one of the deals she gets is an employee discount. So we were looking at like we

were looking at travel but like hey we should buy a house so that we're not just throwing away rent and we looked at one of the communities and the house was the house of the week they're trying to sell they sold like 60 others they're almost sold out so they had a house of the week which was $25,000 discount and then on on top of that, we get a 6% discount. Okay. And there's never going to be a deal ever again? There's never ever going to be any more deals on homes ever again? Because if that's the case, I got to notify the public.

Do you see what I'm saying? Well, yeah. Is it a $500,000 house or is it a $100,000 house? It was originally $550,000. Okay. Then my next question would be, my next question could be, can she buy the house?

Or can you buy the house? Can one of you buy the house and not buy it together? If you're really in a position to buy. Well, so that was the, I mean, that's really if you're really in a position to buy well so that was the well i mean that's the situation so we we make a combined 130 just about okay um and we were obviously saving we didn't we like we didn't know that we were going to want to buy so soon but the opportunity the location and the discounts and the deals, it all just lined up to where... Right.

But what John and I are trying to tell you... Let me break through the static on this. What John and I are trying to tell you is it's not smart, nor safe, nor wise to do this. I get what you're saying. You got love goggles on. You love her. You want to marry her. And you want a huge half. You got love goggles on, you love her, you want to marry her. And you want a huge half a million dollar house. Yeah. Everybody wants that. But

so there's nothing wrong with wanting something, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. And there's a good, better and best way to do things. And in this case, this is literally the worst way to do this. And by the way, mathematically, you can't afford this house. You'll make 130 combined. You can't afford a $500,000 house. You really can't. You don't have the cash flow to make that thing work. Have you gotten the mortgage, like what the proposed mortgage payment would be on this house?

Yeah. The drafted letter was $3,600. And then what's your take home every month? After taxes, we bring home about $82,000. Okay. What do you do for a living? I'm an engineer. What does she do?

She works at the company. I know, but does she like, is she a marketing person? Like, what does she do for it? Oh, purchasing. Purchasing. here's my fear her job is is your job is pretty stable her job is not having a purchasing job with a builder some builders come some builders go some builders stay forever all i have to say is this man i dude i'm just telling you you're how much is that is that that 35, 40% of their take home? Yeah. What did you tell me the payment was going to be? Did you say 3,600? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So what we, I'm just telling

you what we teach. You're going to go home and you're going to go off this call and you're going to do what you want. And you're going to decide if you're going to do something wise or if you're going to do something foolish. Okay. And I want you to have those two paths in your head. There's a wise way and there's a foolish way. And you just had two. You're having two experts tell you, here's the wise way. Here's the foolish way. What we teach and what I do and what John does in our own personal lives is we say,

OK, if we have a mortgage, which is the only debt that we don't yell at folks about, it needs to be no more than 25% of your take home for your home. That's the payment, taxes, insurance, all of it, HOA fees, all of it included. You're just, my guess is you're just looking at the mortgage here, probably no HOA, whatever. And you're at, you're already over the 25% because for you, 25% would be around $2,050 and you're already at $3,600. So that's strike one in the category of not wise. Strike two in the category of not wise is you're about to buy the biggest financial asset that most people will ever purchase. And you're going to buy it on the worst possible legal terms because you're going to buy it with someone that you're not married to. Which means if the worst

were to happen, I'm not saying this is going to happen. But I wouldn't have a means if the worst were to happen i'm not saying this is going to happen but i wouldn't have a job if the worst doesn't happen regularly okay let's put the show exists exactly like things were i mean best laid plans things don't always go according to plan so if something but just were to happen and you guys decide you know what that's not the one for me you go travel in europe and you realize she loves french food you hate it and she loves the opera you hate it and you break up you're in a mortgage together and she can French food, you hate it. And she loves the opera, you hate it. And you break up. You're in a mortgage together. And she can decide, I just don't want to pay my part anymore. And now your credit's in it, her credit's in it, or something happens to her. And now, I don't know, part of it is going to her mom. You never know. I'm just telling you,

don't do this. This is not what you want. You want to do this the right way. Now, if you decide, hey, I'm not in debt. I'd like to buy a house and I'd like to pick something that I can afford that's 25% of my take home pay, more power to you. Or if she were to decide that, more power to you. I'm not saying that you can't have a house. I'm saying there is a right and a wrong way to do it. Do you hear that? Absolutely. Yeah, I guess I just thought because, you know, obviously I didn't realize the actual percentage of our take-home,

but I was thinking we follow all the other steps, like no credit card debt. My student loans are just about paid off. My minimum, my payment is $200 a month. And we were trying to follow all the way. Then go all the way. Don't do it. Kind of don't do it. Almost do it all the way because the plan works when you do it all the way. And if you're saying, Hey, we've been doing it and it's been working for you, then keep doing it. And dude, this is the hardest pill to swallow

when you're successful. And you guys are very successful. You're doing well. The hardest pill to swallow when you're successful and you guys are very successful you're doing well the hardest pill to swallow is when somebody says hey my neighbor is selling this rare high-end lexus and she's gonna give me uh twenty five thousand dollars off and that brings the total price of the car to a hundred grand that's an amazing deal good point that's a good it's an amazing deal but it's not an amazing deal for y'all because you can't afford it. And so a half million dollar house that gets an insider hookup of 25 grand off. Dude, that's awesome. $525,000 house. Great.

Maybe you're walking in with instant equity. Y'all can't afford it. And man, five years. Go marry this person. Go marry her this weekend. Just go to the courthouse and call it, dude. Or have the hard conversation. Why are we still scared to get married after five years together? Y'all need to have that conversation before you go buy a half million dollar house together. Go have those hard conversations. Houses will come and houses will go. Jade and I have both lived in our share of houses.

They'll come and go. This is a cool deal. It's just not the right deal for y'all right now. That does it for this hour of the show. Thank you, John. Thank you, folks in the booth for making it happen. Happy New Year. This is The Ramsey Show.