The Ramsey Show - App - You Can Make Good Money While Following Your Dream (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 22, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate your call. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Jody starts off this hour in Minnesota. Hi, Jody. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I am calling because my husband and i are working on baby step two great

um and we recently started um fostering my niece and nephew um and we will be fostering them for an indefinite amount of time um so we will be receiving money from the county for fostering them. Good. And so what our original plan was to put that money into a separate account to use just for those two kids and just to meet their needs and anything that they need. And then anything beyond that, we were just going to kind of hold it into that account. And if they did end up going back to their mom, we were going to invest that money for them and give it to them like when they graduate high school, that sort of thing. But then it occurred to us, should we actually be using that money to pay off our debt instead? Yes.

I guess we're just not sure the right thing to be doing with that money. Yeah. What you were attempting to do was noble. I mean, the whole thing you're doing is unbelievably noble. You're taking care of these kids. Thank you. But you're trying to do something that felt right with the money because getting money to take care of family member kids feels a little icky to you.

And you're trying to go, go well i want to push it over there towards them because i don't feel like i should be doing that there's a little bit of that under the surface here and that's kind of a normal awkward feeling but here's the thing you are going to write whatever checks are necessary while those children are there to take care of them aren't't you? Yes. Okay. So it's just coming out of one pocket or the other. You know, you can't set the money aside to take care of them. You're taking care of them.

It's all in one pocket. You know, you're going to care for them. And so, and as far as their future goes, the other things, the best way for you to help them big time in their future, if you want to do that, if they go back to their parents or whatever, with the excess money you're talking about, is for you to get out of debt and you to have an emergency fund and you to build wealth. And then if you've got a pile of wealth over here and you look over and have a niece and nephew, you can just write a check.

Sure. You know, I talked to a guy the other day that's a friend of mine. He's a multimillionaire. And he was so excited. He had run a spreadsheet. And he said, did you know what a million dollars will do? And I went, no, what will a million dollars do? And he said, I can put a million dollars in a mutual fund,

and the income off of that mutual fund will pay for all of my nieces and nephews to go to college. Wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah. That's pretty cool. that's pretty cool and that's just a million dollars you know and so you're going to be millionaires you're on your way you're doing the stuff we're teaching you're going to get out of debt you're going to be millionaires and by the time these kids are how old 7 and 14 okay and so you know 10 years from now um what well not quite seven years from now you're gonna have one of them in school probably uh but the you know you're gonna be in a much better position by the time they get to

college than you are today to do something for them and part of that is the result of just directing this money to cleaning up your mess because that's the shortest path to you being wealth which wealthy which is the shortest path to you helping them overall right so what do you think the probability is what do you think the probability is you end up adopting them? I'm not sure at this point. Their mom's still going through treatment and things, and so I don't know. I really honestly don't know. It kind of feels like a 50-50 shot at this point.

What's she addicted to? Meth. Okay. Yeah, you probably got these kids. I hope she makes it, but you probably got these kids. Right. Yeah, and I'm so glad you're there. I mean, what a great thing.

And you can do it. You can do it. What's your household income? We are right around $80,000 right now. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, so we just moved, and my husband just graduated college and just started a full-time job all, like, in the last couple weeks. So we're going through a lot of changes.

I'm sure, a lot of stress. And this is his family? Yeah. My family. Your family. Okay. How old are you two? 38 and 39.

Okay, cool. And you have kids of your own? Yes, we have a one and a three-year-old. Wow, what a house full. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, here's the other good news.

If that occurs, if you end up adopting them out of foster eventually, There's no cost for college. The state will pay for the college. Oh, I guess they didn't realize that. Yeah. So adopting out of foster care is not only an inexpensive thing to do for people that want to do an adoption, zero to $2,500 on average, most of the time zero cost to adopt,

but also then the state jumps in and does all kinds of stuff, including paying for their college. So you can verify that in Minnesota, but in all the states that I'm aware of, they do it. And it's just a very, very cool thing that you've been able to do here. I hope for the sake of your family member, your sister, that she turns it around and it turns out okay. But meth is just tough. It's just tough.

That's heroin and meth are two of the toughest ones, recidivism rate-wise, percentage-wise. But, I mean, God can do anything, and the human spirit's powerful, and I hope she turns it around. Yeah, me too. I actually do have one more question about it. Okay. Speaking of God, should we be tithing on this money?

It's up to you. I don't care. Okay. And by the way, God doesn't either. He's not sitting up there with a school card. He's not sitting up there a little chicken scratch going, one, two, three, four, cross five. Right?

He's just not doing that. It's not like performance um you know you're taking care of orphans which is a biblical mandate and in effect for at least temporarily they're orphans right right and so um the money you're receiving to take care of those kids is you know you can't out give god so if you want to add on it fine but if you don't tithe on it i could probably make you a real good bible study on why you don't need to but i don't worry about all that stuff it's just um i always have giving way at the top of my list and it never it never disappoints me okay all right you're by way, you're giving. Your whole freaking home is open to a 14-year-old.

A 14-year-old. Woo! Yeah, that's giving right there. Hey, you're incredible. You're heroes. Way to go. Very well done. Guys, the foster care system, you know, we just finished doing a little bit of research on it.

A couple of friends of mine are working in that space a lot. And I was just helping them brainstorm with fundraising and stuff for some of it. There's only 108,000 kids in the foster care system eligible for adoption nationwide. I mean, if we just, like, thought about it for a minute in America, we could just do away with that need. There's only 108,000. That's nothing. I mean, and it costs nothing to adopt somebody out of the foster care system or virtually nothing. Something to think about.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills.

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It is doing extremely well. Thank you, America, for your reaction. He is a Ramsey personality teaching on career. And the book is The Proximity Principle, The Proven Strategy That Will Lead to the Career You Love. Proximity Principle by Ken Coleman. You can get it at our website at DaveRamsey.com or KenColeman.com. Or you can get it at anywhere great books are sold. He is in L.A. today doing media. Had a huge signing in Mesa, Phoenix last night.

Thank you to our KTAR listening audience for turning out the way you did to support Ken. We appreciate it. Almost 200 folks there. It was quite an evening. And then he'll be signing books in Sacramento this coming Friday night. And so make plans to come out and attend that. We'd love to have you show up at the Arden Fair, Barnes & Noble, this coming Friday night in Sacramento at 6 o'clock

for the Ken Coleman Proximity Principal signing. We'll be giving away $450 cash and a $50 gift card to buy some coffee so you can get in proximity with someone that will help you along the way on your career. Good stuff. Frank is in Washington, D.C. Hey, Frank. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave.

I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. I'm a little nervous. It's okay. Forgive me if I make a mistake deciding what my problems are here. I basically have a lot of debt, and I'm trying to figure out which way to go. Okay. I have a property that I have as a rental property, and I live in another house. So basically the rental property is making me income above and beyond the mortgage.

I also rent out some rooms in the current house I live in, and I have about $30,000 in credit card debt. I'm trying to figure out the best way to go, and I've been knocking out the credit card debt, but I've been thinking maybe it's just time to sell the rental property and uh so what is your what's your income what do you make at your job um so my take home is uh roughly uh ninety four hundred dollars a month okay and uh and your And your only debt other than your house is $30,000 in credit card debt. No student loan, no car payment. I paid off the car. I paid off the student loan.

And now I'm just trying to get focused and make sure I pay off the credit card. But I want to get to a place where I can start knocking out the homes. Yeah, I agree. So how long is it going to take you to knock this $30,000 out? I believe I can do it within the next eight months. Good. That's how focused I believe I can get on it, the way I've got things mapped out here.

Sounds like a good plan. Now tell me about the rental property. What do you get on it. The way I've got things mapped out here. Sounds like a good plan. Now, tell me about the rental property. What do you owe on it? I owe $193,000. And what is it worth? Valued at $300,000. Okay. All right.

So it's not making you a ton of money, not after you pay the payment and you have expenses and you have some vacancy and repairs and stuff. You're probably making a little bit, but not much, right? No, not much. About $350,000. Gross. And then I also rent out rooms in the place I live in now for another $700,000. Yeah, but that decision is independent of the rental property.

The rental property basically is, you know, it's cash flowing, but it's not like you're coming home with, you're not getting home with $10,000 a year even out of this thing. No. Which you make $10,000 a month at your job. So this rental property is not setting the world on fire. It's the best thing since sliced bread. But it's okay. It's okay.

It's not killing you so if you want to knock the credit card debt out and then turn around and knock out either your house or the credit card or the rental property next and you don't have a plan to do all the mortgages and everything in about seven or eight years that's fine it's okay but rental property is kind of like um college degrees people say, oh, everyone should have one. No, you really shouldn't. You shouldn't get a stupid college degree in left-handed puppetry. And no, you shouldn't buy rental property that barely makes money or loses money.

Because all real estate is not good. Real estate that makes money is good. So this real estate is kind of medium. It's nothing super exciting, but it's not so. Real estate that makes money is good. So this real estate's kind of medium. It's nothing super exciting, but it's not so over the line that I'm going, why do you even have it? Because if you were losing money on it, I'd be dropping it. You know, it'd be that simple. And so your choice, man.

But I think you can hold on to it and work your way through it if you particularly like that property. And in a sense you're you know you're coming up with 200 000 bucks to keep it to pay that mortgage off now you get the paid off it'll cash flow like a bandit but it's not you know with a hundred thousand dollars in equity on that property i mean you might be making net net net after all expenses and vacancies and everything else you're're probably making between $5,000 and $10,000 net. You're not killing it.

So it's okay, but it's just not changing your life or something like that, positively or negatively. Thanks for the call. Courtney's with us in Twin Falls. Hi, Courtney. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. My pleasure.

How can I help? So I now have two kids, and we're going all out on dave ramsey solutions and i just want to know how to develop like the right chores to pay for work versus the ones that you should like the kids should already be helping for okay it's just your choice however you want to do it we picked out a couple of things per kid like five things that we could try to create the illusion that they were earning money and so we put them on commission and you know and then some things we said you do because you're part of the family and because you love your mother which means your dad is going to make you do it and so you know like you're going to carry your own dishes to the dome and scrape

them off and put them in the dishwasher, depending on your age. I mean, stuff's age-appropriate here. We're not sending a 3-year-old to the salt mines. But I don't want 14-year-olds sitting there looking at their mother like she's their waitress. Yeah. I have a 3-year-old, and I'm just trying to figure out what's age-appropriate for my 3-year-old. Real lightweight. Real lightweight. is appropriate for my three-year-old real lightweight real lightweight and when a three-year-old cleans

up their room what that generally means is you cleaned up most of it and they were around and picked up two of the toys yeah they're not like hardcore room cleaners at three yeah you wouldn't want to pay them for cleaning up their toys though would you yeah i would i did when they were three just because i wanted them to go hey let's go do some work let's clean up the room i'll help and you and me are going to do it together and we make a game out of it and a song or whatever right clean up clean up put your toys away all that garbage right and you go through all that stuff and it's just like and it's kind of a fun thing and then I give them a dollar because I want them to associate emotionally work with money. Work is where money comes from. But it's real grace-filled and fun because they're three.

Now, when they're 13, they need to be able to execute a complex job without me singing a song to them. Okay? Just do the thing, right? And so that by the, you know, you progress the complexity of the job and other things. But sometimes we just were all hands on deck. We got to get the, you know, we got to get the yard cleaned up. So we're all coming out here and picking up sticks, everybody out there, you know. Or we had a thing, we had a deck that would always get pollen on it.

We had to get all the stuff out in the dadgum backyard and pressure wash everything off right so that was just an everybody help job that wasn't a uh because you're part of the family but but some of the other stuff just start real real lightweight when they're little but and um and here's what you'll find some kids are just wired for this they just love oh gosh i mean a little entrepreneur, and all of a sudden they're turning everything into a contract labor negotiation. And so you have to be careful with that because we don't want to do that. So it's just this combination. A lot of grace

when they're young. Nothing very complicated. Everything's real visual. And put your hands on that. I'll send you a copy of our number one bestseller called Smart Money, Smart Kids by Rachel Cruz and I. It was the first book she had that was a number one. It was a number one on the Times and number one bestseller called Smart Money, Smart Kids by Rachel Cruz and I. It was the first book she had that was a number one. It was a number one on the Times and number one everywhere. And I'll send you a copy of that. And it gives you a really good outline on what to do

with kids age appropriately on all the different subjects around money. Good stuff. That's available, by the way, in our $10 sale, in our $10 sale online. I'll tell you a little bit about that later on. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Jim is in Orlando. Hey, Jim, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call, and thanks for all you do for us out here. I'm going to get a little emotional here.

My wife and I and my kids have been following your plan for quite some time, and it's really, like you said, changed our family tree. Cool. Anyway, my question today is regarding long-term care insurance. My wife and I are looking into it now, and I'm finding two main policies available. The first is a traditional long-term care policy where you can either elect a monthly benefit or a lump sum payout, and you just eat that up. And the second is what they're calling a hybrid. It looks to me like a whole life policy with some sort of conversion aspect to it.

You have a good eye. Stay away from that. That's a snake. Okay. You know a poisonous snake when you see one, sir. I thought that was the case. It smelled a lot like that, and, you know, the agent was pushing it fairly hard, which made me think that, you know, that might be the one to avoid.

Yeah, that would also mean I need to avoid that agent. Yep. So my next question would be of the two options available in a traditional, what are your thoughts? I just do the monthly payout, and most of them only cover about three years, some of them five years. But there's very, very few people percentage-wise that stay in a nursing home longer than three years. The average time is 2.4 years nationally. Okay. And so you can just kind of, that's the benefit.

So sometimes you can get a three-year coverage or four-year coverage maybe a five-year coverage for ladies is out there but um 70 of the people over 65 will spend some time with some kind of long-term care assistance the one thing i would always want in it is two things are two the one thing is two things but two things look for an inflation uh kicker so that every year you can up your coverage because the cost the cost of nursing homes goes up pretty substantially and then the second thing is look for a uh uh a an in-home care provision so that they take care of you in the home, which is less expensive, by the

way, but also better quality of care in most cases. Thanks for calling in, dude. In the lobby in Ramsey Solutions, Brian and Leslie are with us. Hey, guys, where are y'all from? Davenport, Iowa. Love it. And here to do a debt-free screen. Yep.

How much have you paid off? We paid off $145,644. Love it. How long did this take? Three years and four months. Love it. And your range of income during that time? We started out at 60 and we ended at 180. Wow. Very nice jump. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a hairstylist and I'm an outside sales rep for a cleaning and janitorial supply company. So how do you explain your income tripling in three years? I think both of us, we were pretty new in our careers. Obviously, being in sales, there was the opportunity to make quite a bit.

And her being her own boss, she was able to almost double and triple her clientele. So your career has matured rapidly. Yes, very much. Very good. What kind of debt was the $146,000? That was our home mortgage wow i'm looking at weird people how old are you two i'm 29 and i'm 31 and a paid for house baby yeah what's this house worth uh roughly 200

you're 30 years old with a pay for you'review. You're so weird. You are so weird. I love it. You're heroes, guys. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. How fun. What in the world made you think you should pay off your house by the time you're 30? It actually started about six years ago. When we first started dating, I actually, I had a Dave car before I knew what a Dave car was. And I was two years into a job. I was knew what a Dave car was. And I was, you know, two years into a job. I was ready to get a new car. And I'd actually contacted my cousin who, he knows a lot about cars. He buys a lot of cars.

So I figured I would, you know, get some advice from him on what he would do. And I was talking to him and said, hey, I've got $4,000 looking to do either like a three-year or a six-year car loan. And here's what I'm looking at. And here's the kind of car I'm looking at, and I'm asking, what do you think? And he's like, well, I think that's a stupid plan. I think you should take the $4,000 and buy a car with cash

and then save that monthly payment every month. And I don't know what about it, but it just clicked. Yeah, good for your cousin. Yeah, so he's been one of our number one cheerleaders because he's been on the plan. So, yeah, it all worked out. I actually bought my grandma's 2000 Buick Century. It had 30,000 miles on it. Grandma's Buick, man, that's classic.

So, yeah, so getting a new car was, I guess, the start of everything. I hear you. And then I was gazelle intense as we were dating with my student loans. And then after we got married, I think she was on the same page of wanting to just nail the house. Well, there wasn't any slowing you down, for sure. No. So how did you guys all get connected to us? My cousin.

Oh. Yeah, so he had told me. Oh, that's why he said it was a stupid idea. Yeah, he said our plan was stupid. Dave Ramsey would kill you. Okay, so he had told me. Oh, that's why he said it was a stupid idea. Yeah, he said our plan was stupid. Dave Ramsey would kill you. Okay, I got you. All right. So he had told us about the Total Money Makeover.

I got the book. I read it fairly quickly. I gave her the book. She read it. Like I said, that was the start of it. So, Leslie, you've walked this whole crazy thing out with this guy where you're dating him and marrying him and everything else. But here you sit at 30 years old with a paid for $200,000 house, and you're making $180,000 household income.

Y'all are rocking it. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is, Leslie? You've just got to be on the same page. We obviously had our rough patches. We had a lot of come-to-Jesus talks. But sticking to your plan and your budget and reaching your goals, like, you'll get there. I never thought we'd be here as fast as we are, and here we are. So, yeah.

It is surprisingly quick. Yeah. Of course, your income shot way up, and that helped. But it's how, you know, when you start this, it feels like you're climbing Mount Everest backwards. You know, I mean, and yet then all of a sudden you look up and I'm standing on the thing. And here you are. Look at you guys. You're going to be worth so much money.

It's going to be ridiculous. That's the plan. I love it. I love it. Way to go. Way to go. So your cousin was your cheerleader. Who else?

My best friend, Courtney and Alex. They're here today. Oh, they came with you on the road trip. Yeah. We're hoping to be back here with them in a couple of years. There we go. And our friend, Greg. Spread the disease.

Spread the infection around. Yeah. I like it. Good. Yeah. We do have family and friends, too. Like I said, our cousin, some other family members that are on the plan, too. So we've had a good amount of people in our corner.

Yeah. Well, I'm sure you guys are rock stars. It's absolutely fabulous. You paid off your house at the party. And with the money you're making, I'm doing the math in my head. It's just going to be crazy. You're going to be outrageously generous, outrageously. Your life is going to be amazing. Wow. going to be outrageously generous, outrageously. Your life is going to be amazing.

Wow. Well done, you guys. Very well done. And how deep was the sacrifice? How deep did you cut? Like your friends making fun of you? I think at the beginning, I treated baby step six like baby step two. And you were a little too intense.

I would have lived out in a tent and rented our house out to pay it off quicker if it was up to me. But that was where our balance came into play as we were going Baby Step 2, Baby Step 2 for probably a year of it. And then she kind of had told me, we need to live. We need to go on trips. We need to save up this money. And you should at those baby steps. Yeah, absolutely. And so it was a good balance because I just wanted to get it done.

But then I've heard you a couple times on the radio, and you say, what's the difference if it takes three years and three months compared to three years? So I had one of those, you know, what's the difference in three or four months when we can go on a couple vacations, enjoy our life. And that's how we tell people to do baby step four, five, six is right there. So, yeah. Well, good job, guys. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, The Everyday Millionaire's Book.

That is the next chapter in your story. I love it. Brian and Leslie from Davenport, Iowa, paid off their house and everything, 30 years old, 146,port, Iowa. Paid off their house and everything. 30 years old. $146,000 in three years and four months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready?

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Boom! Love it! Wow! well our famous ten dollar sale ends soon our lowest prices of the year on books in the online store at daveramsey.com you can go there you can call ramsey concierge at 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223. We've got over 50 different products at $10 each. Our most popular books, audio books, e-books, envelope systems, all for just $10, including the Total Money Makeover or Smart Money Smart Kids or Business Boutique or Retire Inspired or Entree Leadership, all $10 each.

And while you're there, enter to win our Fuel Your Summer giveaway. We're giving away a $5,000 Ultimate Summer Road Trip to one lucky winner. And we're also giving away $250 in gas money to five lucky winners every week in May. So enter to win every day. No purchase is necessary. Must be 18 years old or older to win. Tricia is in New York. Hi, Tricia.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. So exciting to talk to you. My husband and I are both 60 this year. We took your class twice. I think we flunked it the first time, and this time we're really putting it into gear. We have

a mortgage to still pay off. We took care of our sick parents for a couple of years and ended up having to take out a second mortgage and a car payment. I'm wondering, my husband's 401k is sitting, not doing too much. Is it, after 60, ever

worth it to use that money to pay off your mortgage yeah i would consider that how big is the 401k is it too much tax consequence you're gonna pay taxes but no penalties so how much is the balance in the 401k um like 400,000 okay is there any other nest egg um i have a TBA $100,000 right now, and I still work making about $100,000 to $120,000 a year, and it's guaranteed 7% interest in a city savings. And how much is the car loan? $20,000. Okay. And how much is the second mortgage?

It's $180,000. Okay. And how much is the second mortgage? It's $180,000. Okay. All right. And we do have a second home that we've rent out. That's paid for? Yes. Okay. And is there a first mortgage in front of the second mortgage? No. We had no mortgage. Oh, so it's a home equity loan, but it's a first mortgage.

It's like a first mortgage, yeah. Okay, so $200,000 makes you debt-free. You have $500,000, right? Yes, yep. And, yeah, I would go ahead and do that. You're going to pay taxes on it, so it's going to use up more than 200 000 to do that and then you're going to use your income to build back as rapidly as you all can does your husband still work he's out of work um injured right now so it's just my income but i've been working a lot of overtime so i'm trying to see what's the best use of that and And what's his prognosis on getting back to work?

What's the prognosis on him getting back to work? He's feeling a lot better, so we're hoping soon. Okay. What's he do? He was a supervisor of facilities at our church. Oh, okay. All right, cool. Making what kind of money?

70. Okay. All right. making uh what kind of money um 70 okay all right so so you guys can cook along from 60 to 70 somewhere in there making a couple hundred a year with no debt at all correct and pile up cash for retirement so you should retire millionaires so we should do that okay that sounds wonderful yeah but i'm going to clean up in other words when we pay off the house and the car, all those payments that we used to have now go in your retirement account. Correct. Right.

Because they're not going to the mortgage company and the car company anymore. And don't you buy anything else on debt. I'll find you and box your ears. You don't have another time to get this done. The good news is you got a really good income, and you had a pretty good nest egg there. It's not awesome, but it's good, above average. And so you can knock this stuff out and be completely free at 60,

but that doesn't mean you kick back and put your heels up on the desk. We still tear into this and, you know, make a couple hundred and save a hundred a year for 10 years. You know, that kind of thing. That's where I invest a hundred a year for 10 years, that kind of thing thing that's where i invest 100 a year for 10 years that kind of thing let's go let's go crazy on the investment side here hey thanks for the call zach is in los angeles hi zach welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave thank you so much for taking my call how are you better than i deserve what's up uh so i actually uh started listening to you a couple years ago and i was I was $20,000 in credit card debt,

and I actually was able to get completely out of debt, lived on beans and rice, rice and beans, and now I have about $75,000 in savings. Wow. And so right now I am in the education space in Los Angeles, and I'm kind of thinking about a career change, and I'm just kind of figuring out the best way to go about it. I've already thought about going into more sales jobs because with my part-time job, I'm a scuba instructor. And I've been really adapted, like kind of working with people and just kind of

had a really good sales mentality about it. And I just kind of want your advice on like how to go about that, if that makes sense. And I have with the savings like uh how much of a pay cut can i take uh what do you make now like uh right now i make seventy six thousand dollars a year why couldn't you make that in sales right and so i guess it's just more like you know i've been in the education space and just making the jump. Yeah, but you don't always have to jump down. Sometimes you could jump up.

That is absolutely true. I mean, pharmaceutical salespeople make $150 to $200 a year. I did not know that. As an example, okay? They're on the road a lot, but it's a great sales job as an example. So I don't know what it is you want to sell. Right. You might be a great scuba equipment rep. I've actually, you know, already looked into that and sent my resume out and kind of figuring out what I need to do in order to just kind of make the best career choice possible.

But it was just more like, you know, making the jump into it, like finding the right career path. I also have two master's degrees, one in education and then one in American studies. So unfortunately, those don't really pan out into sales jobs or anything like that. Yeah, but you've got critical thinking skills and you have great communication skills. And some of that comes from the level of academic rigor that you've been through. So that's okay. You're going to be fine um but yeah i think the thing is it's a little vague and you're like you know i want to jump onto a boat and i hear one out there splashing around but it's in the fog

so let's clarify what kind of boat it is you want to jump in and let's get it closer to the dock and uh don't start with the assumption that it has to be a cut in pay start with the assumption you're going up in pay absolutely and then let's start start fishing around and going okay what is it i think you've identified that you're you love people and serving people uh into the process of purchasing something that is fun for them good for them whatever right and and so you know you you've figured that part out as is the way you're you're wired and that's a good thing now you've just kind of got to figure out okay what is it i've got a passion about that i would want everyone to own one of them

and then you're not really selling anymore you're just serving yeah absolutely yeah so fantastic advice yeah I'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book. I think it'll help you with this, the proximity principle, the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love and jump on and listen to Ken's podcast. He's got a lot of insight on identifying where your passions and talents intersect. He calls that the sweet spot. And the Ken Coleman Show podcast, or you can listen to it on SiriusXM, and, of course, the Proximity Principle book. We'll send you a copy of the book. It just came out last week, so going to Zoom Zoom right now without a doubt.

So good stuff. Hey, good discussion, man. Thanks for the call. One of the things out there that we were talking about there with Zach a little bit, but I hear too often from you guys, is this idea that if you're going to work your passion, it means you make less. Or if you're going to do something that's good for humanity, you have to work for a non-profit and make less.

Those are both false premises. Lots of people do lots of wonderful things for other people and for-profit organizations and get paid very well doing it. For instance, doctors save lives, okay, and get paid very well doing it. So this idea that you have to make less to follow your passion or to be in a holy endeavor is just a false premise. So don't start with that premise when you're looking at these things, folks. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. ramsay show this is james childs producer of the dave ramsay show did you know you can now listen to the dave ramsay show on pandora and spotify for all the ways to watch and listen check out

our showcase at daveramsey.com slash show.