The Ramsey Show - App - You Can Never "Afford" to Go Into Debt (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 3, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas to you, America.

Thanks for hanging out with us. Eric is with us. Eric's in Idaho. How are you, Eric? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Eric's in Idaho. How are you, Eric? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Good to be out. It's a pleasure to visit with you. My wife and I have been debt-free other than our home for the past 12 years because of the principles you teach, and so we really appreciate that. I not only got my bachelor's degree but also my master's degree while supporting a family of seven people total. Good for you. Without having to do any student loans because of the principles you teach,

and so it works. Cool. But so I got my nurse practitioner degree and license last year. And this last summer, my wife and I spontaneously, well, kind of spontaneously bought a camp trailer and a pickup truck to go along with it to tow it. We had to borrow some money to do that. And the question is, our goal is we want to get it paid off by the end of this next year, by the end of 2020. We're able to do about two and a half times what the payments, the minimum payments are. But my question is, do we tackle it full force and turn it up a notch and take the money that we're putting,

that 50% of our income that we're putting into our retirement, do we stop doing that and put it towards the debt to get that paid off and then go back to saving for retirement, or do we just kind of plug along with what we're doing now? Well, I don't know. Do you want to work our plan or yours? That's true, and I had a feeling you would say that. This is straight-up stupid, dude.

I mean, that was just dumb. You worked all this time. you did all these wonderful things you pulled them all off and and then you just go step and cow stuff up to your knees um i got that doc itis that you talk about yeah and then some so um you know i i if you want to apply our principles to this process, which you would go back to baby step two. So you would stop all retirement. You'd clean out all savings down to $1,000, and you would apply it to the stupid camper. Right?

Yes. And once then, then you apply everything out of your life, no vacations, no eating out, you're back on beans and rice. You're back on baby step two. You regressed all the way back. I mean, this is do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail. Right? This is the penalty step in the game.

And so, yeah, you just step back. If you're going to do our stuff, I mean, but, you know, the problem was you fell into the trap of saying I can afford it. Very much so, yes. And you forgot that you can never afford debt so anyway the um you know i i i other than possibly just selling this crap uh i guess i would just go back to baby step two clean that stop all retirement stop everything and clean out any money you have in savings down to a thousand dollars and no vacations and no eating out until you get this done and work

overtime and beans and rice rice and beans and scorched earth on the lifestyle and and attack again um i somehow don't believe you would do that so i don't know what to tell you. Because I think you are under the illusion you can afford this, and you're just going to diddy-bop along with it. So I don't know. I'm sad for you. I really am. All right. Angel's with us in Kansas.

Hi, Angel. How are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Thank you. Dave, I'm 27. I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I'm actually tired of it.

I need to go back to school. I'm about $30,000 in debt. And I actually just joined the service to go back to school. So I'm leaving in January. And I have no idea where to start, what to do. I need to get back in my seat. You joined the military and you're leaving to go to boot camp? Correct. When? Late January.

Okay. Well, thank you for your service to the country. So what are you going to be making? What's your income going to be at the military? For basic training, I'll make about $2,000 a month. Yeah, and then what? And then it's just going to be along the weekend, so I'll have to get a job after that. Oh, so you did the National Guard?

Correct. Oh, okay. All right, so you're making $2,000 a month for basic training, which lasts how long? Five months and a half. Okay. And then when you get out of that, you're on the weekend plan and they're going to pay for, they'll pay for what? Up to $10,000 in school, right? Correct. And you're going to go get a job to eat with after that, right? And you told me you got how much debt again? About $30,000.

On what? I've got two cars, a student loan, and that particular car. You're married? Yes. And how much does she make? About $20,000. Okay. All right.

So what we do is we put our incomes together, and we say how are we going to attack this debt as fast as we possibly can, and whatever schooling you choose needs to be within the National Guard's budget. No debt for school. Did you hear me? Yes. So what are you thinking about studying and why? It's going to be sports management.

I really like the sport soccer. I want to get involved with it. I want to get back to sports management. Okay. And so what would your job be and what will it pay? It'll be anything to do with the business side of the sport, and it'll be between $40,000, $60,000, $80,000 to start. Okay, all right, cool.

Well, let's be sure you do the degree within the budget that the National Guard's giving you, and they're very generous to help people with their educations. And so, yeah, you lay that budget out. And so that's doing no harm to your get-out-of-debt plan. And then you've got a job. Your wife's got a job. We're on a tight budget. And we're attacking these debts straight down the line from there. And that's how I would do it.

So, hey, thanks for the call. And, again, thanks for your service to the country. Hey, hold on. I'm going to send you a copy of the book total money makeover is my christmas gift to you this is the dave ramsey show Support a small business this holiday season that does business right. I'm talking about Grip6 Belts. It's the only belt you can get online with no holes, no flap, and no bulk. And the buckles come in really cool designs and are interchangeable.

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to get 35 or more off grip6 products grip6.com Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. David is with us in Missouri. Merry Christmas to you, David. Merry Christmas to you. How can I help today, sir? Well, sir, on your good advice, even though it was a whole life policy, I kept it on my wife and she passed in September. Oh, I'm sorry. Because, well, she had Alzheimer's, and so that worked out. My question now is debt-free except for the home and another home that I ended up with. And we tried to, four siblings bailed out a brother. And after several years of trying to deal with that, that didn't work.

So I bought my sisters out. So I have $41,000 left on my brother, where my brother still lives. And I've got $171,000 on my existing house, which I've agreed with the kids that I'm going to wait at least six months before I decide what I'm doing with my home. But now I have over and above my emergency fund, I've got about $80,000. And so, but I'm 65.

I only have $23,000 in a Roth IRA. So how much do I pay on the debt? Do I throw some money back? How much came in the insurance policy? After funeral cost and so forth, $88,000. Oh, that's the $80,000 you have in cash? Exactly. Okay.

And you owe $171,000, so you don't have the money to pay it off. I don't have the money to pay off my home. What is your income? $63,000. And I'm hoping to work another two or three years. I will start drawing survivor benefits next year because I'll turn 66. I can do that without. How long have you lived in that home?

33 years. How long you were married? 30. Yeah. Well, waiting six months is probably wise because you make clearer decisions after letting some of the grief clear away. Because I know if something happened to Sharon, we've been married 38 years, I wouldn't be able to think clear for about that period of time.

So waiting a little bit to, you know, let the fog kind of lift before you make a major decision is a good idea. It sounds like an awful lot of house considering you have virtually no nest egg. So I don't know if you end up keeping it. What's the house worth that your brother's living in? 65. And you're furnishing him free housing?

No. No. uh 65 and you're furnishing him free housing no no what he is he is he is paying uh i i've got like a 39 dollar uh a month that i am uh over and above the the payment on the house. Oh, there's debt on that house. There is a debt on that house. I owe $40,000, $41,000 on that house. And he basically pays the payment. He basically pays the payment. Does he do all the maintenance? No. That's one of the reasons why I took it over,

because I've been doing all the maintenance. So you lose money on that house every year? Yes, sir. What's wrong with him? Had polio when he was young and been disabled all his life, never drove. And basically he found credit cards and lottery 10 years ago and lost his home. And my sisters and I bailed him out and took over the home. I'm sorry.

It's kind of you to take care of him. All right. So, well, I mean, after the smoke clears, after the fog clears on this, you know, you've got to decide two things in the next five years while you're working and receiving the survivor benefits, and that is how can I build a nest egg, number one, and number two, how can I clear all these debts? You do not want to go into your retirement years with mortgage debt and no nest egg.

And so what is the home you're living in worth? Probably right around $ 000 i i did refinance it uh to pay off medical debt and so forth for my wife before she ended up in a nursing home okay so the only money you have for the nest egg would be this 80 000 that's left from the life insurance policy right right? Yes, plus the 23 and my Roth. Right, okay. All right. Well, we've got to, you know, really concentrate and focus to, in the next five years, clear these mortgages

because they destabilize your retirement big time. And... My question is, you know, do I save some of this back for my nest egg, or do I throw everything at paying off the mortgages? That's what I've been saying a lot too, Dave. Well, to start with, I would say let's do nothing for six months with the $80,000, and let's do nothing with the house for six months. At the end of that time, what I'm probably going to do is I'm going to start cleaning up debt with it,

and certainly I'm going to pay off the little house where your brother lives, and he can just keep paying you the payment as rent. He doesn't even need to know it's paid off, right? Oh, absolutely. That house is in your name. Can I go ahead and do that now? If you want to know it's paid off right and um oh absolutely that house is in your name go ahead and do that now if you want to that's okay it's not the end of the world because you're not going to move him and you are going to care for him that's not really an option for you and i get that um and um you know then you've got to decide if this house is too much house, if it's going to eat your lunch, the one you're living in after six months.

And I think it may be. I agree. It may be that you're going to have to move to something cheaper in order to be able to aggressively build a nest egg. And that's what it sounds like to me, given your income versus a $171,000 mortgage, and we just don't have the money to pay it all off. I'm so sorry you're going through all this.

It's a horrible thing to face right now, especially in the holidays. Horrible thing to face any time, but it's certainly right now. But as you come through that six-month period of time, if you want to call and talk again, I'll talk to you again. You can remind me what I said. I'm pretty consistent. But I think I'd pay off the brothers today, and I think you're probably going to move after six months in order to free up cash flow to be able to build a nest egg over the next five years before you're 70 years old.

And hopefully you can put $200,000 or $300,000 together and, you know, get you a smaller home that's paid off that takes you into retirement. And that's the goal I would have for you because those are the two keys to creating a solid plan, a solid existence in your retirement years. So, hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America.

We are so glad you're with us. You'll find our absolute lowest prices going on right now. It's Cyber Monday Week, whatever that means. I thought it was Cyber Monday, but it's Cyber Monday Week. So we're going to just rename it. Apparently everyone is doing this stuff, but I don't know how that works because I'm stupid. I thought Monday was one day. But Cyber Monday week.

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Merry Christmas to you. How much have you paid off? $116,000 in three years and 11 months. We paid it off on our five-year wedding anniversary. So most people go off and get like an upgraded ring or something on their anniversary and we decided to get a paid off house instead. That works for me. I like it. And what was your range of income during the three years and 11 months? $85,000 to $98,000 and then now back down to $84,000. Wow, very cool. What do y'all do for a living? I started in social work, went to sales, and now I'm back in social work. Okay. Cool.

And what kind of debt was the $116,000? Yes, that was during that time. Okay. I'm sorry, Jeff, what do you do? I forgot. I talked over you. I'm sorry. No problem.

I was in distribution, and now I'm in sales. Okay, cool. So what kind of debt was the $116,000? We paid off our house. Our mortgage. Woo! Weird people! Yes! I love it! I love it! And you guys have only been married five years?

Yes. What's this house worth? About $165,000. Very cool. Well, tell me the story. What happened three years and 11 months ago that lit you on fire? Well, Dave, many years ago, probably back when I was a kid, I was always actually pretty money conscious. But then over time, I got bombarded with, you'll always have a car payment, you'll always have a mortgage payment and stuff.

So then in my 20s, most of my 20s, I tried that out, and it never really worked too well. And then over time, I went through a divorce, and I started back with nothing. And I was living at my parents' house, and God bless them for taking us in and letting us live there. And I was actually in my old bedroom that I grew up in, and I had a Scarlett O'Hara moment where I said, as God is my witness, I'm going to put me and my kids in a position

where this is never an issue again. Amen. Yeah. The official I've had it moment, yeah. I've had it, correct. So I saved up lots of money, met Christy, and started explaining my philosophies of wanting to do things differently financially and things, and it started from there.

And my wife has more to say now. Yeah, when we started dating, I had a lot of debt. I had always grown up thinking that debt was okay. That's just how it's always going to be. That's life. You're going to have a mortgage. You're going to have student loans. And then Jeff told me about his financial goals and his plans.

And I thought, wow, I love that. That's great. Let's do it. Let's be weird. Okay. So you dove in. Let's do it. Let's be weird. Okay. So you dove in. Yeah. Head deep.

We tackled my student loan, got that out of the way, got my medical bills paid off, and we started building up a nest egg while we were renting an apartment. And then we were able to buy a car with cash because we needed to upgrade my car. And then we just kept putting money into savings. We built up, put a huge down payment on our house, and then we bought another car with cash during that process. And then I got pregnant with our little one, and we started saving a lot more money into an emergency fund

just in case we needed it at that point. But once I and the baby came home healthy and safe, we put that big lump of money down on the house and just kept tackling it. Wow. Very cool. How does it feel to be completely out of debt? No house payment. Yeah. Amazing. It's an awesome feeling. I came home right away and I took my shoes off and went in the backyard and felt the grass. It felt better. And it allowed us to free up. We still follow the same lifestyle pretty much, but I was able to take a calculated risk on a complete career change. Wow. And I feel a lot more comfortable now being able to do that.

I'm only one month in and it's a big learning curve, but I really don't have any fears about it because we don't have debt. Yeah. You got this covered. Yeah. Very cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Working together, being on the same page, having a strict budget and saying no to things, celebrating the small successes. So, yeah, so while we were going through this process, we had a chart, our get out of debt chart, and every $10,000 above the mortgage payment that went towards principal, we would fill the chart in and then we would go and have a celebration out to dinner, some event just to do a mini celebration of, hey, we hit that.

Now let's keep going. And we just kept doing that every few months. And that gave us that momentum to win. And it really worked. Yeah. And the most important part that we always tell everybody is this is a lifestyle change. it's not just to get that next bill paid off it's your whole life that you're changing yeah you're gonna be in control from now on amen amen just like you said in the bedroom that time this is it right at it we're not living like this anymore yeah very cool well congratulations, congratulations, you guys. Very well done. We're proud of you. Got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story.

And so very cool. House and everything. Jeff and Christy, Madison, Wisconsin, $116,000 paid off, three years and 11 months, making $85,000 to $98,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free!

That's what it sounds like when your house is paid for by God. Woo! I love it. Yeah! Well done, you guys. Very, very very very well done absolutely fabulous open phones at 888-825-5225 bj is with us in georgia hi bj how are you hi i'm good thanks for taking my call dave sure what's up um well my question is about Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. My husband and I recently finished Baby Step 3, and so we're ready to get our investing up to 15%. Cool. But I have a question

about that. Yes. We met with a SmartVestor Pro last week, and currently I'm a teacher so I have six percent of my income going into the teacher retirement system automatically um and then I also have two and a half percent going into a 403b but it's mandatory my question is how to get in um no it's not I can reduce that so um the smart investor pro suggested that because of, um, because my husband and I are a little bit late getting to the investing stage that we should be doing more than 15%. Um, but we're still, we still have our house to pay off. So I wasn't quite sure about that. Okay. That's what I kind of figured as well. Um, and so then i guess my question for you is how how would you recommend that we get to that 15 percent he recommended doing i'm 45 and my husband's 51 lord jesus okay um no 15 percent

and what you do is just take your annual household income what's your total household income before taxes about 95 000 okay so $15,000 is what we've got to get in there, right? You're putting 6% of your income automatically into teacher. You can count that or not count it in the 15 if you want. If you counted it, then you would reduce that. Take your salary times 6%, reduce the $15,000 by that much. And then we simply do rock, paper, scissors. Match is first, Roth is second, and non-matching non-Roth is third. Okay? Okay.

So do you have any matching available? No. Neither one of you. Okay. So then do you have Roths available, either one of you? Not through my employer, no. Does your husband? No.

Okay. Then you do a couple of Roth IRAs, and that's still not going to get you there quite. That's $12,000. Well, if you count the $6,000, you can do it with two Roth IRAs, and you'd be there. Hang on. I want Kelly to pick up, and I want to learn the name of the SmartVestor Pro, please, so we can teach him to correctly do this. our scripture of the day psalm 73 26 my flesh and my heart may fail but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Truman Capote said, failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

Ooh, that's good. It really is. There's spice. There's spice, there's contentment, there's a sense of accomplishment, there is a sense of gratitude for the journey when you reach some of the milestones that someone might label as quote-unquote being successful. And there's all kinds of those things you could be successful at. You've been married 10 years. You celebrate your 10-year anniversary. That's saying, gosh, for 10 years I've been married.

That's a successful marriage so far, right? I mean, your kid graduates from college and doesn't move in your basement. That's successful, right? I mean, you just look at these different things and you say, wow. And in every case, you go back and you go, well, there was some moments. There were some problems. There were some issues. There were some failures along the way. But you didn quit you kept going you persevered and so failure is not permanent right because you didn't stop

and that's that's why these debt-free screams are so visceral because they you know they had they had moments along the way they had setbacks along the way they did some dumb things along the way. They had setbacks along the way. They did some dumb things along the way. We all do. No one's different in that regard. And so if you think you've got it figured out, that just means you don't have it figured out. That's all that means. So everybody has messed it up.

So, wow. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Kirsten is with us in Minnesota. Hi, Kirsten. How are you? Hi, Dave. Great. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? So my husband and I are on baby step two. We have a total of $91,000 in our debt snowball. And the good news is that I definitely have a fire. I've won a student loan payment left to pay off my student loans. We still have his, of course. And we both got new positions this year, which has really light the fire and excitement to get this paid

off. I think we can do it in a year. But my question is, we have four kids, we have a blended family, and our oldest is actually a junior in high school, and unfortunately, just due to this rocky financial history that I have, we haven't started saving for her college, and I just want to make sure that I'm following your steps, and that we should continue this debt snowball, because I think we can do it hopefully in a year, and then work on cash flowing her college. Okay. Yeah, I would be clear of that, and then work on cash flowing her college. Okay. Yeah, I would be clear of debt and then work on cash flowing her college. And this also means you're going to need to read Anthony O'Neill's debt-free degree,

which I'll send you. And so it's going to be very, very important for her to concentrate on her GPA, her ACT score when she takes it, and read books on how to take the ACT, take a class on how to take the ACT so she qualifies for more scholarships. Go to Anthony O'Neill's website. Start applying for scholarships soon because it's not going to be long before she's going to be needing them. And, you know, start learning how to do the essays and make application for hundreds of scholarships. You'll get turned down for most of them. She will. She's going to do the essays and make application for hundreds of scholarships. You'll get turned down for most of them. She will.

She's going to do the work. But scholarships, where you go to school, good ACT scores and GPAs, these are the things that line you up. And choose a school she can afford. Her mom and dad don't have $2 million to send her anywhere she wants. Exactly. And so she's going to choose a good school there in Minnesota. All right.

So we should not pause and start putting money away now. We should just keep putting money away. No, I would not pause. I would clean up the debt. Okay, perfect. You can get through school if you have zero money, but you've got to work towards a plan and start aiming at that and you guys with her and thinking through it and let's just start let's lay out a budget

let's start looking at the schools let's start talking about what it takes talking about where she what work she's going to do she's going to be working when she's in school and all of these things are fine it doesn't mean you're a child abuser. Did you go to college? I did. Did you work while you were in college? I did. I did, too. I paid for a lot of it. I did, too.

I worked all the time, like 40 to 60 hours. 40 to 60 hours a week. I worked my butt off. You know, I didn't get to do some of the, you know, the, quote, college experiences. And I'm not bitter about that. I would never borrow money to get to not work so I can go to a frat party. So this is just ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

So this is the situation this kid's in, and it's not going to kill her. She can get the education, which is all that matters in this scenario. Absolutely. We want her to have skin in the game game and we just want to be able to help oh she's going to have skin in it you're going to have skin in it everybody's going to have skin in this game so hold on i'll put a little skin in it we'll send you a copy of anthony o'neill's debt free degree book number one bestseller to show you how to go to college debt-free. And it can be done. It absolutely can be done. And, you know, it's hilarious to me. Some of you work so hard at being victims.

Social media is full of trolling victims. Dave Ramsey has no idea. He's just out of touch with the real world. No, I'm not. i actually know this freaking statistics the freaking statistics say that you can go to the average in-state college for right around ten thousand dollars a year tuition live your butt in your mother's basement and go to the in-state school ten thousand dollars is000 is $833 a month. The average person delivering pizzas four nights a week can make $1,500 a month. Now, can you do the math? Of course you can go to college debt-free, but you have to go to a college you can afford, and you're not going to have, you know, be living

in an apartment with a skylight and a jacuzzi and a racquetball court. Well, wah. Call the wah-ambulance. All right, Jim is with us in Tennessee. Merry Christmas, Jim. Merry Christmas. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

How can I help? I'm 29 years old. About 10 years ago, became a convicted felon due to some stupidity. And because of that, having a very difficult time finding a job. The only job I've been able to find is in carpentry, making $10 an hour, and I'm lucky to bring in about $300 a week. And currently, about $40,000, a little over $40,000 in debt, and just had my vehicle repoed. And other than bankruptcy, I'm having a very hard time seeing any way out.

And I actually found one of your videos on YouTube the other day, and that was the first one I'd gotten to, you know, that I'd seen or anything. And, you know, I started watching more and more, and I said, well, if there's anybody, based off what I've heard so far, if there's anybody that can help point me in the right direction, I felt like it would be you. Man, you've had a tough decade. Well, the good news is you're not bankrupt. You have a crummy job.

Correct. And so simply increasing your income, you could dig out of this mess pretty quick, mathematically, right? Right. And so somehow we've got to get you moving in a career direction that doesn't care if you have a felony record from 10 years ago. And that could be all kinds of self-employed things. There's all kinds of things that don't care about that. As long as you're a good person now, that's all they care about. You know, so it doesn't prevent you from working most places.

I mean, we would hire someone here that had a 10-year-ago felony thing as long as they were qualified in all the other positions, you know, and they interviewed well and all that kind of stuff. So it doesn't keep you. Now, some corporate jobs, they just turn you down automatically, right? But here's what I'll do. Let's help you on that side, and I'll help you on the money side, too, because I've been in trouble myself. Not that kind of trouble, but I've been down on my luck, you know. So hold on. Kelly's going to put you through Financial Peace University and I'm going to

send you Ken Coleman's book on careers. Read it immediately called The Proximity Principle because we've got to work on your career side of the equation, Jim. I hope all that helps you and you call me anytime. I'll try to help you more. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

We'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus if you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show make sure you visit daveramsey.com slash show and register we would love love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.