The Ramsey Show - App - You Can Now Go Into Debt for a Dog Wedding

Episode Date: April 7, 2022

George Kamel & Dr. John Delony discuss: Why you should never get a 30yr mortgage, Trying to support a husband who constantly procrastinates, Should you charge your adult son rent for living with you? Working for a company without a 401(k) match. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined today by the effervescent Dr. John Deloney. Right next to me, best-selling author and host of The Dr. John Deloney Show. You were not expecting effervescent. Where are you, John? That's one of, besides stable and relaxing, that's the other word that people used to describe me. Yeah, you're like a Tums, you know?

I'm like a walking Xanax. A bomb to the soul. That's exactly right. Well, we are here to take your calls about life, money, like a Tums, you know? I'm like a walking Xanax. A bomb to the soul. That's exactly right. Well, we are here to take your calls about life, money, mental health, relationships, boundaries, lack thereof. We are here to help you take the right next step for your life. Wherever you might find yourself, whatever is keeping you up at night, we want to help. So give us a call, 888-825-5225.

Chris is kicking off this hour. He's in Los Angeles, California. Chris, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. My question is, is there ever a time when a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage loan would make more sense than a 15-year? Great question.

Is this a personal situation you're walking through right now? It is. So my wife and I, we have about 200K gross income. Our debt is about $10,000 on one car. We have a two and a half year old daughter. We're maxing out our Roth IRAs. We're contributing to our 529. And I believe, well, with interest rates going up, we don't know, you know, where they'll be in a few months, but I believe we could afford a 15 year mortgage loan, it'll probably be right at about 25% of our take-home income. Okay. But it doesn't really leave us much margin for anything else. Chris, what's your car payment?

Car payment is $340 a month. Would you have more margin if you had 340 a month extra we would so why don't we go ahead and pay off that car uh should we just go ahead so we do have six months emergency savings and then we probably have a little bit additional um but we're thinking about doing uh a renovation in the house. We're not going to go overboard, but it is somewhat of a fixer-upper. So, you know, we want to do the renovation. And also to answer your question, our financial advisor said, you know, a car, well, this was advice he gave us a few years ago before COVID.

He said a car appreciates the value, so there's no point in paying it all off at once. Fire your financial advisor today. Yeah, and instead of that financial advisor, just go find somebody who's sitting at a coffee shop and just ask them. They're going to be better advised than that advice. This is moronic. So, Chris, here's the deal. You're doing Chris's plan. I'm not mad at you.

You're doing some great things. You're maxing out the Roth, the 529. You guys have a great income, but you're not doing the Ramsey plan, and that's okay. But if you want to do our plan, you've got to pay off all of your debt before we get on the emergency fund, before we go to investing. And you can save up and pay for the – put a good down payment on this house and do it on a 15-year fixed. The 30-year loan is really a shortcut that leads to you paying a whole bunch more in interest. How old are you, Chris? My wife and I, we're 38. You're 38. If you get a 30-year mortgage today, you're buying a coffin. And if you do a 15-year, what I found, and this is based on actual data,

the people following the Ramsey plan end up paying off their house in about seven years. Now think about that. You are then 45 years old with a paid-for house, and you still have another 20 years of your working life where you have all of your income back at your disposal, your greatest wealth-building tool. Hey, I want to circle back. Walk me through your financial advisor's advice here. Help me with this. He was saying, so our interest on the car is, I don't know, it's like 3%. I think he was saying-

Oh, invest the difference and I can make you millions. Right. Like the market's going to earn you 12%, so you're just throwing 9% down the toilet. John, you'd be a great financial advisor. You sound just like him. Here's where that's insane. You're paying a monthly payment against a depreciating asset.

See what I'm saying? So every month... It's just nuts.'s just you're paying more interest while the car is worth less and less and you're holding the exposure so if you get fired he's made his money on that gap by being able to sell more of his product to you and you're the one holding the car note that you now watch get towed away out of your driveway and so it's easy for him to say, well, that's stupid. You should float this because he doesn't hold the other end of the bag. If

something goes sideways and it's easy to say, nothing goes sideways. Our whole job exists because things go sideways. Um, I hate to tell you this, but it doesn't sound like y'all are in a position to buy a car. I mean, to buy a home. if your mortgage, if you can only do it at this, you're going to be so leveraged that you can't breathe. Don't do it, man. It's not worth it. Keep renting. And I know that stings. Yeah. Okay. So a couple of things. With a 30-year mortgage, if we do have margin and then we have bonuses and whatnot come in end of the year, couldn't we apply that towards the principal? Absolutely, you could.

100% you could. Our data tells us that 97% of people don't. They can't. Something comes up. Every month a thing comes up, or I want a thing, or we need to go somewhere. And the bonus becomes a vacation and a new car instead of going towards the principal. And so this is where this is less of a math problem.

I mean, there is a math problem. You're going to pay infinitely more in interest on a 30-year note. But this is a psychology problem, and this is just the human condition problem. That's why all these YouTube scammers who are like, bro, all you can do, note down, they can do some mathematical gymnastics to make it work. But what we do is we sit with people that the wheels have completely fallen off, which is millions and millions and millions and millions of Americans.

And we say, hey, I know the math looks good. That's just not how we're wired. And the companies know this. They wouldn't offer it if it wasn't going to make them a ton more money. And so, yeah, you could in theory. You're exactly right. 97% of people will not.

One more thing. Let me just play devil's advocate. Absolutely. We do a 30-year, and so we have a little bit more margin, assuming that we'll go ahead and pay off our car. Just a recommended advice.

30-year, and then we have a margin. We might think about having another kid, or the other car that's paid off it's got 150,000 miles on it we don't know how much longer it's going to last I mean so here's what you're doing

you are paying for those other things with debt you're just rearranging it so it's mortgage debt not car note debt see what I'm doing? you're paying another $100,000, $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 on your mortgage to have a little bit of flexibility

so you can buy a car in the right now. You're just trading debt for debt. See what I'm saying? It doesn't sound like you're in a place where you can afford a house right now. Chris, you guys make $200,000. Let's do a budget. Let's figure out where all this money is going and that will will help you create the margin, not a 30 year loan. You got this,

man. This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years.

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We are here for you. Liz joins us up next. She's in Great Falls, Montana. Liz, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We are doing great. How can we help today? My husband owns a business, and every year around this time and stuff,

it just takes a little bit of time to get his tax paperwork sorted and everything. I'm just really trying to help, but I kind of am starting to feel like I'm nagging him weekly, daily. You're kind of feeling like you're starting to nag him, or you're nagging the crap out of him? I feel like I'm nagging the crap out of him. Okay, all right. Yeah, I'm just trying to remind him to stay on top of it so it's not a big headache. So I'm just reading into the sound of your voice that this is not just about this business, that you are tired of being his mother.

That too. Do you nag him in other areas of life, or is it just his business and taxes? It's mostly just more of the background business stuff. Does he do his own taxes? No, we've got somebody that will do them for us every year. Oh, so he won't even get the receipts together and the paperwork together. Yeah, it's just doing that stuff. So what's the holdup?

I think procrastination and adding to what we already owe or making that debt number grow. Is he scared of what the numbers are going to be and what he's going to owe? Yeah, maybe. I think so because we already owe some, which we fully understand that we're working on. So a lot of people think procrastination, and this is, I am, if you look up the dictionary, you don't even know what a dictionary is, do you, George?

There are these thick books that used to have definitions in them. I Google it now, John. Yeah, just Google it. If you Google the word procrastination, my face shows up, okay? So this is me talking from experience here. Most people think that procrastination is about avoiding doing something, about avoiding doing the thing, the taxes, and it's not. It's about avoiding the emotions that the action is going to kick back on you. Okay. And so it usually in my experience, working with people and

experiencing myself, it's an anxiety response. It is a, I don't want to feel what I'm going to feel when I get into this. And it could be, I don't want to get into writing this paper because it's going to pull me away from my kids. I don't want to get into these taxes because these numbers are going to reveal that my business is failing. And that means I'm a loser and I'm shameful, et cetera. So procrastination often for the person who's procrastinating isn't the problem. It's the solution to the problem. It's a way to avoid those, that negativity. And that doesn't help your, the wife cause you're drowning, right? You're trying to prop this whole thing up. Um, is your business, your, your husband's business failing? Is it struggling? No. Okay. So what do you think he's hiding from? What do you think he's avoiding? What feelings? I think the anxiety of adding to what we already have.

Do you guys have a lot of debt outside of that or business debt? As far as IRS, yes. And then we've got some other debt, but we're already working the snowballs. So I also have to remind us that it's more of a process and it's not going to happen or be done tomorrow. So you guys already have IRS debt in your life? Mm-hmm. And so he's scared of a process, and it's not going to happen or be done tomorrow. So you guys already have IRS debt in your life. Mm-hmm. And so he's scared of adding to that.

Yes. And so the head is in the sand just going, la, la, la, la, la. Let's just ignore it. It'll eventually go away. I'll deal with it another time, but not today. Mm-hmm. So here's a magic sentence that my wife and I sat down and had this conversation years ago. I did not understand the stress that my procrastinating things, and this is procrastinating getting ready for church

on Sunday mornings. This is procrastinating getting the garden done so that we can get stuff planted. I just figured stuff's going to be fine. It'll be fine. We'll get there. We'll get there. I didn't understand that when she walks into church 15 minutes late, she feels completely exposed. I had no idea. I didn't understand that two weeks after planting season has a dramatic effect six months later when the stuff grows up. I didn't understand that because I just was kind of la la on my way through life. And so it took my wife sitting down and having a hard conversation and direct conversation about her needs. When you do this, I feel disrespected. When you won't sit down and get this thing done, I feel like you're choosing to watch YouTube videos and just go for a jog over the financial stability of our family.

And here's a line she came up to help with that we both developed to help me, okay? Here's the line. Don't forget to remember. Here's the deal. I will get out of my truck, and I'll have the lunch wrapper, and I'll have my water bottle that I've always got with me,

my little Yeti here, and I'll have my CDs, because I still drive a car from the 1400s and i'll have all my stuff and i'll just leave it there i'll start to get out of the car and she i'll start to go inside and she will be on the front porch and she'll say hey don't forget to remember and what she's telling me is not hey pick up all your crap because then i take that as a um as as an attack what she's saying is hey don't forget to remember how good it feels to get into a clean car on your way to work.

Don't forget how good it feels when the taxes are finally done and you can stare at that number and then have a problem to attack. And so that number, that phrase has been a gift in our home, but she could only do that when she sat down

and told me your needs and I said, hey man, I'm tired of hurting you. I didn't understand that my actions were affecting you in this way. Let's work on healing this thing, right? So procrastination is no longer a solution in my house. It's become the problem because I've identified it as the problem. And now I'm going to jump, I'm going to swan dive into these problems and just get them

done. And man, my professional life has benefited. My marriage is better. My parenting is better. All this stuff's better. But that's the best you can do is have a conversation about how this affects you using I statements. Okay? Mm-hmm. And that's heavy and hard, and I know that's hard. And I don't hear in your voice that you think this is going to work. There's been, I guess I feel like we've had a lot of those.

Okay. But I mean, I'm keeping at it, just trying to just maybe articulate my words a little bit differently to see if that will help. So I think that can be a problem. Don't dance on this one. Okay. Tell them, use I statements. This is how I feel.

Not what you're doing. This is how this affects me. And let that be a, don't dance. Don't try to soft pedal. This is a hard conversation because here's what's going to happen. You're going to be one inch away and it's going to turn into two inches away. And then you're going to run into somebody at the office and they're going to pay attention to you. And they're going to grab coffee for you when they're grabbing theirs and you're going to

slowly go that person gets it and then you're going to respond to the text you can respond to the phone call and all of a sudden you're going to find yourself in a mess it happens gradually bit by bit have the hard conversation jump right in the middle of this thing and don't back down from it. This is how this feels to me. I'm asking you as your wife, stop hurting me. Stop hurting the kids. Stop hurting the household operation. Can you please make a commitment to not forget to remember? That's hard, George, when you're having these need conversations with your spouse, man. The antidote to procrastination, I found, is discipline.

You just do it even when you don't want to. You jump swan dive into it. You pay off the debt even when you don't want to. Swan dive. And so the IRS, you're not going to get them off their back. This is the worst type of debt. We put at the top of the debt snowball for a reason. So you guys need to have some urgency here. Get rid of this IRS debt once and for all.

Work with a good tax pro who can help you avoid ever going into IRS debt again. Maybe that's quarterly estimated payments, whatever you guys aren't doing right now. Pay off your consumer debt. Never look back. It's going to change your marriage and your relationship. I promise you that. Thanks so much for the call. Join us, 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney. Listen up, teachers. You guys are heroes. Every single day you give your students hope for their futures.

And because of you, over 5 million students have gone through our foundations and personal finance curriculum in 48% of schools all over the country. And you guys deserve to be recognized, and that's why we're celebrating you and teachers like you during National Financial Literacy Month with our Teacher Appreciation Giveaway, sponsored by Borrowed Future, our hit documentary about the dark side of the student loan industry. So teachers can enter the giveaway today to win some incredible prizes, and two lucky teachers will win $5,000 cash each to use however they want.

And three more teachers will win $1,000 cash, and there's more prizes where that came from. So don't miss out, teachers. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash teacher for your chance to win, and tell any teacher in your life that you know and love. That's RamseySolutions.com slash teacher. All right, John. So occasionally, as I'm on the internet, I stumble upon an article that I love.

You live on the internet. I do live there. That is my zip code. And occasionally, I find articles that I love that I think would make you angry. And so those are the ones I want to read on air. Great. You ready for the headline, John?

This sounds fun. Just so America knows, John does not know what's about to hit him. I have absolutely no idea what's coming. Bring it. Here's the title. Love is in the air, so? This sounds fun. Just so America knows, John does not know what's about to hit him. I have absolutely no idea what's coming. Bring it. Here's the title. Love is in the air, so is dander.

On December 4th, 2021, Twixie and Cowboy, both two-year-old Brussels Griffins, were married at the Dallas home of the bride, Twixie, in the backyard.

She wore an appliqued lace bodice with a ruffle of layered tulle at the waist. George, are these dogs? The groom, I'm not done, John.

The groom donned a handmade silk cotton tuxedo and top hat. Later, four-legged guests enjoyed a meal of puppy chow from Vestal's Catering in Dallas as well, get this, John, as a puppuccino bar and activities including a ball pit. The nuptials cost about $25,000. What community was this in? Dallas. Your home state, John.

Be proud. No. The two and their canines met at a Brussels Griffin hangout in February 2021. The dogs soon became boyfriend and girlfriend. Nope, they didn't. Miss Wilson, who handled the guest list, said that she and Mrs. Hellwig intended to throw the most epic dog wedding. You know what I guarantee you is in that community?

Hungry people. And dogs. Hungry dogs. Which Puppy Chow was provided. We have entered a tiny little vortex that we're not going to be in much longer, George. Where we have more money and access to capital than we have since. I wish this was an April Fool's joke, but this is from March 16th from the New York Times. Oh, gosh.

So, how do you feel about dog weddings, John? I think we need to put that out there because I think we're going to see more of them happen. I think this show needs to be sponsored by Preparation H because I've got hemorrhoids now. I cannot believe. I just don't have the words for it. I don't even have the words for it. Do you not believe in love for dogs? I love my dogs.

Can dogs find love? Nope. They can't. They mate. They mate, George. You want to, can I add insult to injury? They have the primorphism here. Like, this is somebody living out a fantasy that clearly didn't happen in their life.

And they are putting it on their poor dog. You know what that dog was thinking the whole time? Treat, treat, treat. And they said, sit. And the dog was not thinking, wow, she looks beautiful coming down the dog aisle. He was just thinking, treat, treat, treat. Don't pee, don't pee, don't pee, treat. That was it.

That was all that was in that dog's head. And at one point when he was being squeezed in the tuxedo, he thought, I don't like my owner but treat treat right that's it you're telling me you don't want to see those instagram pics nope okay i you know i'd rather see i'd rather see people uh giving money to a food bank i'd rather don't be that guy john just enjoy life man can't people have some fun you're gonna get your uh your little mutant dogs married aren't you that? That's right. I've got two French Bulldogs, but technically they're related, I feel like. I don't know.

I'm not going to get them married. They're super not related. A, because they're dogs. And B, they came from different litters. Can I make you even angrier? We saw this ad that popped up. Someone sent it to me from Afterpay. Here's what it said.

Let your fur baby say, I do me from Afterpay. Here's what it said. Let your fur baby say I do with Afterpay, which means you can now, it's right there on the screen, from matching outfits to snacks at the dog park reception, you can now pay off your pet wedding in four interest-free installments with Afterpay. There's no such thing as a pet wedding. Here's the thing. It's not a thing. I don't know if that was an April Fool's joke, but I'm scared that it will become reality if not. No, listen, there's no such thing. There's no such thing. There's no such thing as pet parents. You're pet owners.

And listen, I love my dog. My wife had to have a talk with me about when we got married. And I told her, that dog was in my bed long before you were. Right? Like, I loved my dog. I love my dog. The dog I have now,

my dog Stella, is my ride or die, dude. I get it. But I'm a pet owner. I'm not a pet dad. I am, though, a human dad because I have human kids. And when they have weddings, you know what we're going to do? We're going to take human wedding photos. And we're going to throw human wedding rice. I don't know what we're going to do, but whatever they want to do. We're not going to throw... So I'm guessing my dogs are not invited to your kids weddings

And there will be no puppuccino bar There will not That's offensive John You know what's offensive? Puppuccino The people at Starbucks are sad about that What is a puppuccino? It's fun

They just called it a puppuccino If you go to Starbucks Fun fact You have your dog Or if you don't You ask for a puppuccino And they give you a little cup of whipped cream And it's a little treat for the dog

And it's called a puppuccino I can get behind that That's cup of whipped cream, and it's a little treat for the dog, and it's called a puppuccino. I can get behind that. That's all it is. I can get behind that. There's no need to get angry. I don't think we need a puppuccino bar if it's just a can of Ready Whip. That's true. Spray it.

Wow. Well, the only insult to injury there, John, is not only are dog weddings a thing, but now you can go into debt with buy now, pay later for a dog wedding. So I'm kind of this eternal optimist. I just think things are going to work out. People are going to come together. And I get these shards of apocalyptic sightings. And these are one of those moments.

Where do you go? It could all just come crumbling down. I think it's coming crumbling down. And then by this afternoon, I'll be good to go. And then I'll see some young kid texting and driving, and I'll think, nah, it's probably going to come all down. Wow. And then somebody will send me a clip of this actual conversation that you and I are having

about dog weddings. It's all coming up. I'm pretty sure it's in Revelation. Sign of the end times. Dog weddings. No, it's the puppuccino. That's what it is. Chapter four, verse 11.

Wow. Good times there, John. Well, I'm glad I upset you. Mission accomplished. And thank you to Producer James. You didn't actually. It's America. It's America, George.

Everything's upsetting you. No, just don't. I don't understand you. It's fine, John. Let's get to the phones, man. No one wants to hear about dog weddings anymore. You started it. Okay, poor Danny.

Danny is in Minneapolis. What's up, Danny? Hi, how are you guys? Doing great. How can we help? So I'm currently reading the book Everyday Millionaires, and it sounds like a lot of these millionaires have built their wealth by contributing to their company's 401k plan. Correct, 79%. And yes, and I just received a job offer from a company who states that they have a wide variety of investment options available through the company's 401k plan, but they don't have a match.

However, they have an ESOP, which is the company contribution of stock annually to my personal ESOP account. And they state that this ESOP is more valuable over time, the longer I'm with the company. So I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on having a company have an ESOP instead of a 401k match, if I should look into that more before accepting the job offer. Well, I wouldn't decline the offer because there's no match. You can still become a millionaire through your 401k with a 0% match. That's okay. The match is fun. It's a great bonus, but it sounds like you've got some stock options with the company as well on top of that. That could be beneficial. They usually give it to you at a deal, right? Maybe 80% of cost. Right. Something like that. And then you can cash that out every year.

You can invest that money. I wouldn't hang on to the company stock just as its own investment because I don't like single stocks. If this company goes under, John knows all about Enron. He can tell you about that. My mom worked at Enron, Danny, where one of their great things was how much company stock they gave back. And everyone's like, wow, wow, until they all woke up one morning and it didn't exist anymore. Right. So putting all your eggs in one basket is just never a good investment strategy. So invest your 15% into your 401k, and that's where I would start. And you don't need to worry about the match at this point.

Now, can I ask you this, Dani? Yes. Is there something else about this company that you're not interested in? I'm just trying to weigh the options there you go so usually when we say what about this little thing that's a signal that the bigger picture

is giving us indigestion so go with your gut on this one if it's not a place you want to work then don't work there but don't not work there just because of the match yeah good call there John this is the Ramsey Show. you're listening to the ramsey show i I'm George Camel, Ramsey personality, joined today by Dr. John Deloney.

We are taking your calls about life, money, mental health, relationships, you name it. We are here to help. Mary joins us up next. She is in Fort Worth, Texas. Mary, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Absolutely.

How can John and I help? Well, I have a question, and I hope it's a simple answer. So I have two boys. One is already in his second year in college away from home, and my second one is going to be graduating in May. He has decided to attend community college to avoid debt. I love that. With that said, I totally support him with that.

With that said, I'm recently remarried for about a year. So my new husband feels that I sort of baby him. And he feels that once he graduates in May, that I should be starting to charge him rent. I'm not totally in agreement with that. But I don't know if that's just the mom in me saying that. Or does he have, I guess, a good side of it that I'm not seeing. I think we're conflating two separate conversations here. Okay.

So one is the skin in the game, the kids going to college, the, hey, you're an adult now and making adult decisions. Let's have adult conversations that are going to be different than we had when you were in high school. The other is your husband, your new husband saying, hey, I think you are babying this young man. And so those – it looks like they're the same conversation. They're not. One of these is a – I want our household to look a little bit different, and I want these boys to begin to grow up, and then the other is a business conversation. Do you get the difference there? So anytime somebody tells me that their romantic partner

gives them this kind of feedback, my first question is always, are they right? Do you, has your son, let me put it this way, how long were you um were you divorced previously your husband passed away yes okay no i was divorced for about nine years okay can i ask you a really hard question sure did um one or both of those boys help fill that gap that space um as far as not having like a partner during that time that's right um i i really would like to say no i i like to say that i treated them both of the boys very

equally um my older one is a little bit more like i want to go do my thing make my own decisions and i supported him to do that um i i did you know give give him the suggestion as far as the school debt, but at the end of the day, I did let him make his own decision. So sometimes what I've seen over the years is when there's a home with divorce, let's say, and I'm just picking that out of the blue because you and I are talking. I'm using that example because you and I are talking. There's some sort of parental guilt that they will try to extricate from the relationship by over-helping with one of the children

or both of the children. I'm going to give you what you need. Sure, you can do this. Sure, I'll be there for you. Sure, I'm not going to miss any games. I'm going to try to backfill this hurt with all this other stuff. And I'm wondering,

is that what your new husband is calling out? Um, to be honest, I'm not sure. Um, sometimes he'll make comments as far as like the chores he does, or as far as me asking my son to, um, contribute. Um, I'll be honest. I, um, I, my son works. Um, so I, I do provide I do provide him an allowance until he graduates. But as far as him asking me for expensive things, he doesn't really ask me for anything. So I don't know if I'm missing something. I don't know if it has to do with the route he had as far as his childhood, or am I just really babying my son? Well, so I think that's two different conversations. So I think you tell your husband, hey, you said that I really babying my son? Well, so I think there's two different conversations. So I think you tell your husband,

hey, you said that I'm babying him and this is going to be a boundary conversation for your new marriage. Tell me more. What are you seeing that I'm not seeing? Because over the last decade, I've been by myself on my own. I've been doing my best to try to love these two boys

and I'd love your feedback because you're a grown man. I'd love your feedback. Now we're entering into a tell me more conversation that's not going to be, to try to love these two boys, and I'd love your feedback because you're a grown man. I'd love your feedback. Now we're entering into a tell me more conversation that's not going to be, no, I'm not, yes, you are, no, I'm not, right? So that's number one. Number two, in fact, before this call came in,

George and I just happened to be talking about this earlier today off air. I think there's several ways to approach the rent conversation. Should you pay into it? My friend Mike,, Mike, his dad had a great thing that a suggestion that I loved. He just sat down when Mike graduated college and said, Hey, you get six months rent free. You, you can cash it in over the course of your adult life. And he was like, all right, cool. And so he lived the first month after he graduated and his dad came in and he, five left. And he's like, oh, oh. You mean like – and he's like, yep. I mean – so here's the important thing.

It's setting boundaries. It's setting very, very clear. Here's my expectations. You can live rent-free for one year, and then we're going to charge you $500 a month. You've got to get a job. Or we're going to charge you rent out of the gate. I think all – however you all do that, the important thing is that you have very clear boundaries with time deadlines on them, with responsibilities, with if you're going to live in this house, you still have to come home

at midnight. Whatever y'all want to do, it's the messiness and the all over the placeness that just wrecks relationships. George, what do you think? Yeah. I just think having those ground rules in place is going to be key. Whether or not you charge them rent or not, I still want ground rules and I want to know what the exit strategy looks like. Is this 10 years or is it six months? It can't be extended high school. Exactly. So I think as long as he's working, he's working a job, I think there's nothing wrong if you want to charge him a little bit of rent, give him a taste of what adult life is going to be because he's going to have a payment like that to factor into his budget. So maybe you say,

hey, what are your financial goals? Great. Here's the agreement. You're going to live here, but you're going to build the emergency fund. You're going to start investing. You're going to save up that down payment, whatever that looks like. Let's have a goal for why we're doing this. And here's what else I love. I would love your new husband to be a part of this because this is half his house too. And so I want him to be a part of setting the ground rules for the home that your son is going to choose to live in after he graduates high school. So he's going to talk to both of you. This isn't going to be the side

deal between son and mom that you're going to try to go pitch to your new husband. Everybody's going to be in the room so that your new husband can say, my expectation is fine. I'm going to give you a year rent free here. You will do the yard. You will help with the light bill. Whatever those are going to be. And again, that's a separate, it's almost a business transaction, if you would. Of course, it's your son and all that. But this is a, how would we approach this from a business angle? The other conversation is, hey, this is a broader picture you see of me and how I interact with my loved ones.

It's going to impact your marriage. That's a different conversation that I really want y'all to have. But thank you so, so much for that call. Yeah. How does that sit with you, Mary? It is another way to look at it, to be honest. I really didn't think about having a meeting with all three of us and really seeing. And I like the part that you shared where it's part of being an adult.

So that is a good way to definitely look at it. Thank you for the feedback. You got it. Thank you so much for loving your son, man. That's fantastic. Congrats on your new marriage. Yeah. This is a big one, John. Parents are dealing with this, and especially millennials. There's a sandwich generation who's dealing with the kids are still at home, but I'm also trying to take care of my elderly parents. And when you add debt to all of that, it creates a mess. And so the best thing you can do is have the financial discipline in place. And it sounds like he went to community college to avoid debt, which I love. Now, if he was strapped with debt and he was like, Mom, I'm broke and I've got to live here, it's a different situation.

Well, and sometimes kids do the math and they're great at it, right? They'll sit down. He probably sat down with a spreadsheet and said, I can go to this community college, I can get these classes, do this much, it's going to cost me this great but they don't factor in the cost of being alive right being alive is expensive the cost of being alive sounds like a great book title it's expensive right yeah and so the cost of being alive right now is rent and insurance and cell phone and all these other things and so all of

every family does it differently a friend of ours their their oldest daughters got married and was like hey i'm gonna buy a new car and he's like good this is a good time for you to call the insurance company right and by the way what you do with that cell phone now that you're gonna be married some people wait till then some people as they're graduating high school sit down and say all right here's what's gonna look like the next five years you're gonna go to college we're covering tuition you're gonna pay but it's all about that hard conversation you got to have it otherwise it ends in messy you don't love me you never and you're like i gave you ever it's just stop all that yeah have the hard conversation and the worst thing you can do as a parent is you let them go into adulthood because you were you know

trying to take care of them and cover every single bill and they go wait i get how much is insurance what does get oh my goodness i had no idea how much life costs. And so the sooner our kids can learn that, the better. And that's why I'm excited about a personal finance curriculum that's in high schools. Kids are going, oh, I learned this stuff now before it's too late. Right. Or before I got thrown into the deep end of the pool, right? Yeah.

Good stuff there. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my co-host, Dr. John Deloney, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you, America. We appreciate you tuning in. We'll be back with you before you know it. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.