The Ramsey Show - App - You Can’t Be Dramatic & Win at Investing

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: How to convince friends and family that they should pay off their house, Why you can't win at investing if you're too dramatic about the market, How to handle a surprise pregnancy financially. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about building wealth, doing work that you love, creating amazing high-quality relationships. This is The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Deb starts off this hour in Des Moines, Iowa.

Hi, Deb. How are you? Hi, Dave. Yes yes this is deb my husband and i were basic followers of the dave ramsey way um we always had one difference he kept wanting in his 40s and 50s to sock money away for retirement i wanted to pay the mortgage off our mortgage was at a very low rate so he thought we'd be better off paying the mortgage off. Our mortgage was at a very low rate. So he thought we'd be better off paying the mortgage and earning that retirement money, getting it in those IRAs and stuff at a higher interest rate. So my one concession was, okay, before you retire then at age 60, and he retired at 62, we're going to pay off that home mortgage, which we did. So he retired at 62. We're, you know, everyday millionaires. I'm going to retire this year at 63. My 40 year old son is getting

married for the first time. I told him and his fiance, my one regret was we did not pay off our mortgage sooner. And my son's coming back at me with that same argument. Mom, why would I pay off the mortgage when I have a low interest rate if I can make more money putting the money into investment? So, Dave, what can I tell him? It's going to be hard to convince him against his will. I mean, you can give him some tools, resources. Does he know about the Ramsey plan?

Basically, he does. And beyond his home mortgage, he has no other debt. Okay. Yeah, we hear this argument a lot, and it looks good on paper. But we found that when you actually do this stuff and when you survey all these millionaires with paid-for homes, none of them are going, you know what? I kind of miss my mortgage.

I want to go back into debt. And when he frees up that mortgage payment, guess what he can do now? Invest way more than he was. So does your husband think that he is now an everyday baby steps millionaire because he didn't pay off the house and invested the money? Does he think that's how he became a millionaire? That's a good question. I've never asked him. Yeah.

Because I think he would tell you that's not how he became a millionaire. The way he became a millionaire was he steadily invested and he controlled his expenses, and that enabled him to not only became a millionaire was he steadily invested and he controlled his expenses, and that enabled him to not only become a millionaire but also pay off the house, which added to the process. So the answer to the question is, number one, you're not going to tell a 40-year-old anything. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. So George is right. My grandmother's saying applies.

Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. If he actually does want to engage a conversation, which it doesn't sound like he does, it sounds like you do. But if he does. Except his girlfriend or his fiance agreed. She kind of took my side. She did. So maybe. So we're having a good, healthy, fun family argument like the ramsays do

every meal okay yeah i probably did we all we all argue with rachel about her conspiracy theories at every meal so okay all right so you gotta have some fun right so uh well the answer to the question or the answer to the argument is several fold okay I have approached it in my life from about three or four different angles, and every one of those angles has led me to pay off the house. The first angle I approached it from, once I went broke with borrowed money on real estate, I was a baby Christian, and I couldn't find anything in the Bible that said anything good about debt. You're a fool. You're a slave.

It's unwise. It's not a salvation issue spiritually, and it's certainly not even a sin biblically, but every mention of debt in the Bible is negative. So as a person of faith, I had to say to say okay my heavenly father says this is a dumb idea biblically speaking debt is stupid okay why would he say that because he loves me if the best way to become wealthy is to borrow on your house and then take that money and invest it in the stock market okay so that first step is i entered it through that argument then the next argument i entered into was this idea of risk debt equals risk i think we can all agree to that more debt equals more risk less debt equals less risk no

debt equals virtually no risk and so and you can tell that by when you say okay if borrowing against your house at three percent or five percent and investing it in the market in a mutual fund at a 10% rate of return, 12% rate of return, whatever, I'm making that spread. If that is an accurate mathematical formula, why would you not borrow $300,000 on a $100,000 house? You would borrow all you can up to your eyeballs if you're always going to make a seven or an eight percent spread right right but when you ask somebody well why don't you borrow two million dollars that way then that put that puts them in freak out mode because when you put the absurd on the table it makes your emotions kick in and your emotions are where you experience risk not in your intellect

so your heart is where you feel risk. Your head is where you do math. And so your heart starts beating like, oh, God, no. Well, that's because now suddenly you're equating risk with debt. And in his discussion, he's got the debt small enough in his mind that he doesn't equate it to risk. Follow me? Right.

So all of that to say that in sophisticated financial circles, which your son doesn't run in, we actually are taught to adjust a risky investment with an unrisky investment or a low-risk investment with a high-risk investment, which is actually a mathematical process for adjusting those two for risk to where you can compare them apples to apples. So the high-risk investment after adjusted for risk, the rate of return would come down. The low-risk investment after adjusted for risk would come up, and then you could compare them apples to apples. And there's a statistical measure of risk called a beta, which is the measure of the

hill and the valley and the frequency of the hill and the valley when you put it on a chart that measures risk. If you entered that and you actually used a real math formula for your son's naive math formula that's incorrect, then you said, okay, we're taking on more risk, so we can't really count the entire spread from the mortgage rate up to the market rate as spread because we have to adjust for risk and we adjust for risk it neutralizes the benefit of the borrowed money there's your academic answer

i gave you a spiritual answer academic answer okay now let me give you one more the borrower is slave to the lender so that must mean slaves think differently they have different relationships because they're not in control of their lives they keep a job they wouldn't keep otherwise i can't quit this job i have a house payment i can't tell the boss to take this job and shove it in a toxic low integrity situation i have to keep the job because i have a house payment so you keep a bad job with a bad boss until it ends up quite caving in on your head and you end up making less in your life because you're forced into stuff, like slaves are. You make more money, you have better relationships, you take less risk,

and you make money faster if you don't have a mortgage. Your son is so wrong, it's unbelievable. This is the Ramsey Show. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever. While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

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Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash wheelsquiz. Wheelsquiz. And that's not with an apostrophe because wheel didn't do the quiz. But it's a wheelsquiz to check it out for yourself. RamseySolutions.com slash wheelsquiz. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color,

they'll remake your blinds for free. You'll get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Debbie in Los Angeles. She said, my husband and I have $230,000 in our 401k. We switched to a money market plan about seven years ago because we're both in our mid-50s. Good lord. The CFO at his work is now trying to convince him to go back

into mutual funds. He went as far as to tell him that we missed out on $59,000 in 2021. He's right. I'm not buying it. You're wrong. We lost almost all of our 401k in 2008, with this man telling us it would go back up and to stop watching it. I don't want to ever watch that train wreck again. Why would the CFO be pushing for us to risk our retirement fund? Oh, boy. Where to start with Debbie? Sweet Debbie.

Sweet Debbie. Little Debbie. Little Debbie. All right, well. Little Debbie's got a cake. I'm with the CFO on this one. I think he's trying to help you retire with dignity and not lose out big because you jumped off the roller coaster mid-ride. And clearly, they're spooked, Dave, from 2008, which is understandable.

But to be in a money market account, which means it's just sitting in cash for seven years, losing against inflation, making 0%, that's a bad plan if you want to retire ever all right debbie you can't win at investing being drama debbie and you're being drama debbie you did not lose your entire 401k in 2008 the stock market did not go to zero it went in half and so if you took out if you had four hundred thousand dollars at the beginning and you moved it to money markets at the very bottom which makes you the world's worst timing then you've got 230 000 so that means you lost half of your money you can't say we lost almost all no you did not not if you were in a mutual fund it's actually mathematically impossible that you would have lost almost all of it there mutual fund it's actually mathematically impossible that you would

have lost almost all of it there is not a group of mutual funds that suck that bad that it went down 90 while the market went down 50 it went from the dow went from 13 000 to 6500 i know i was there my investments did the exact same thing i was here on the radio sounding just exactly like your CFO. Don't jump off the train. No one gets hurt except those that jump off in the middle of a roller coaster. Ride the ride to the end. Now, if you had not jumped off the train at the bottom, you would not have lost half of your money

because in just a few months, the Dow was back to where it was pre-2008. Oh, and by the way, it was at 13,000. Then it went to 6,500. You know it's over 30,000 today, Debbie. And so you would have had not 200,000. You would have had 1.2 million right now. If you had 230,000 at the bottom in 2008 and you had left it in there, you'd have 1.2 million right now if you had 230 000 at the bottom in 2008 and you had left it in there

you'd have 1.2 million right now you didn't lose 59 000 debbie you lost a million dollars ouch you're being a debbie downer dave i want you to know that i'm downing debbie that's me debbie we're just having some fun here we're picking on you but anyway that's the math i mean it's true that's exactly people are scared to invest i don't know um with this man telling us it would go back up and to stop watching it well i don't think he has any ulterior motives went back up debbie um the cfo is not making money from you being in a mutual fund. Or in the 401K.

CFOs don't get commissions on 401Ks. None whatsoever. He's just trying to help. And the way that he's trying to give you the essence and the nuances of the market. And then the market's back down. It's trashed right now. It's horrible right this second. And, I mean yeah yeah you everybody's employed and nobody's making money in the stock market biden could screw up christmas but um the um yeah but but doesn't matter you know what i'm

doing this month i'm not taking it out it's on sale debbie ukraine uh elon mus Musk is buying the world. What else is going wrong with the world? Oh, inflation. Oh, that's right. Gas, housing market, you name it. President can't string a sentence together. Yeah, I mean, these are the things that are happening out there. And so the stock market's going, I'm so scared, and it's going down, right? So you know what I'm doing?'m doing investing you know what i do when it goes up invest you know what i do when it goes down i invest why because the worst movement in the stock market's history other than the great depression was 2008 and debbie apparently if i'm reading this right you managed to take your money out at the exact worst time. I mean, you really hit it amazingly bad.

So you panicked at exactly the wrong time. You should have panicked earlier or later or something. But, oh, my gosh. What's the quote? It's not about timing the market. It's time in the market. It's consistency. Yeah, exactly.

Just leave it alone. Keep investing. Yeah, you lost out on $59,000 in 2021. But you probably lost close to a million dollars if you took this out at the bottom of the crash after 2008 and moved it to money markets, and have made no money on it since. Meanwhile, my money's gone up 5X. 5X since the bottom of the 2008 crash.

Really, almost 6X, technically. I mean, the Dow's down a little bit right now, but it was up to $38,000, which would have been 6X. Oh, yeah. So that's why, Debbie. That's why. Because you're not really risking your retirement fund if you quit taking it out at the bottom.

You're risking not being able to retire. You get $200,000 at retirement. Yeah. I mean, look at this. Okay. Here's another thing. This is for everybody. We're using Debbie as an example.

Bless her heart. But you walked into it, Debbie. So if the analysis I gave you is exactly half wrong, in my case, I i'm half i'm off by 50 in the little math formula i just did on the air okay which i'm not but let's just say i'm off by that much and you didn't have a million two i'm off by 50 you'd have 600 000 it's still almost three times more than you've got today. So your CFO would have had to have been dramatically, drastically wrong, like wrong by thousands of percent for you to end up with less than you do now. Yeah. That's why he would be pushing for you to risk your retirement fund.

You are perceiving more risk with your emotions than is actually mathematically there. That's what we're saying. That's the summary. And if I'm Debbie, I'm sitting down with a smart investor pro to educate myself on what would have happened if I left my money there, ride the ride, educate myself on what I'm actually investing in so I can make that decision. Right now, she needs that kind of coach. She's freaked out. Yeah, and, you know, George, that thing we were talking about the other day, there is a mutual fund that opened in 1934.

It has averaged, since 1934, 12.25% interest, a rate of return. The number of years, 87 years it's been open, the number of times it's been down, 16. Wow. 16 years out of 87 it was down. The other 71 years it was up. So that's the type of thing that should be in your mutual funds in your 401k. And that's even safer than the market. Yeah. You got to have a long-term mindset.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Tony and Brandi are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hey, doing well. Good, how you doing? Better than I deserve. Welcome, so good to have you guys. So how much debt have you two paid off? $34,000. All right.

How long did this take? About five months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $150,000. Wow. Good. What do you all do for a living?

I'm a UPS driver. And I'm a nurse. I work in outpatient surgery. Cool. What kind of debt was your $34,000? My student loans. Yay! How long? I'm sorry and let's see here so where do you guys live we're from wilmington north carolina oh yeah fun okay cool

so what starts this journey five months ago what happened well it really started um like three years ago my organization offered smart dollar and was like, I'm the free spirit. So I was like, well, I'll look at it. I don't know anything about financial stuff anyways. And then I was like, I'll tell Tony about it. And I got into the first video where it was saying like sell all your stuff and gazelle intensity. And I was like, that's not going to work for me, but I'll tell Tony anyways and we'll just see. So I was like, have you ever heard about this guy?

And he was like, oh, yeah, I know Dave Ramsey yeah yeah yeah and I was like well I mean he has a lot of point but um it sounds like it's more for like the destitute which we are not but we went ahead and listed all of our debts out and we paid off a right good bit so I think all together we've paid about $71,000 off in the last three years but then five months ago, he's the one that really got intense about it. Yeah, no, I mean, I just felt like we were making that type of money and just kind of never getting ahead. You'd have money and then something would come up and it was gone. And I think the biggest thing is we hadn't combined our finances. And once we combined our finances, it was just a complete game changer

um you know we were on the same page and we started started making moves together and instead of you know saving up four grand and then spending three you know we just we just went through this whole process and you know thirty four thousand dollars in five months it was incredible boom just like that how long you been married nine Nine years. Okay. And in nine years, you just combined finances when you started this journey five months ago? Mm-hmm. Yes. Wow. We had two separate checking accounts, two separate savings accounts, and one joint checking account that we put all of our bills in.

And then based on our income, Tony put in a bigger percentage than me because he makes more than me. And then we all just kind of – well, I just like spent all my money because i don't ever save anything hardly until now and he saved it all so if something came up and he would have to pay for it he would be resentful because he's like i've saved up all this money and then i would be like you also make more money so it was always a fight back and forth and since we combined everything we have an account yeah and now we have an income yeah and now we have an account. Yeah. And now we have an income. Yeah. And now we have savings and we do spending. Yep. Yeah. Okay, so I certainly have a theory about this, but I'm curious.

Why do you think the combining accounts caused such an increase in efficiency and lowered the resentment, you said? Well, I mean, I think that it just puts you on the same page. So instead of working in different directions, you're working in one solid direction. I think just everything just seems to fit that way. When you're doing things separately, you're, you know, I'm buying something, she's buying something, and you, you know, you never know what one side's doing and the other side's doing. So you're just never on the same page that way. But also, I mean mean i think it just helps your marriage and helps you become a stronger grouping instead of just two individuals running through life together

so brandy you were would have been the one most resistant to that because you just kind of had you had it made i mean you spent your old check right so uh i mean why give that up right i mean so what would you say the benefits are now that you guys combined them from your perspective? Well, I think it was now both of ours, both of our money. So I wasn't feeling like I was getting like nickel. I used to joke and I would say, man, you've been nickel and diamond me since we were dating. Like we always split it. It was 50-50, 100%, 50-50 the whole time out of my account and his account.

And so then it wasn't like we weren't like oh i paid for this you know you owe me this it was just like okay well we got to pay for this and this is what we're doing and um since i'm a nurse and i'm really love to chart so the every dollar app it was like real fun to like chart everything and um was really, I didn't realize how much money, like, we actually had left over after we budgeted. And you get to do spending because you got to vote, right? Yeah. I mean, you're not like you're living on beans and rice or something. You didn't have to do that.

No. Just knock this out. I mean, you make a lot of money, so you just popped it in the head, right? Just reach over. Now, I like that charting thing with the every dollar. Of course, a nurse would mention it. It's like charting. I like that. I've never heard that analogy, but it's perfect. Yeah, budgeting is like charting. I like that. I love this story, though, because we get this all the time. People go, well, Dave,

I'm not going to combine finances. Guy got, you know, a thousand reasons, trust issues, fear, selfishness, financial infidelity. But when you guys combined this, there was an accountability there. There was a connection that could not be broken and it obviously caused you guys to win financially yeah that's awesome man yeah we actually had planned for us to pay our that 34 000 off by this april but we paid it off in november so now we're four five and six so we already got our emergency fund and now we're on to four five and six now So we already got our emergency funding now. We're on to four, five, and six now. So we finished it like seven months early. Look at the spender all up in the knowledge here.

I know. I'm very impressed. She knows exactly where she is. I love this. She's charting the budget. She's got her spending under control. And shout out to your employer for having SmartDollar as a benefit. Very cool.

For those that don't know, that is our financial wellness program that we offer to businesses organizations to help their employees get control of their money so very cool employee benefit program uh that teaches our class is what it amounts to and so very cool yeah and the husband or the spouse could actually get involved and then it turned oh my gosh then it goes wow we encourage that that. That's awesome. Be careful if you get Tony involved because it will get implemented. Well done, you guys. You're fun. It was good to talk to you. You've got a real healthy outlook on this whole thing.

You're comfortable in your own skin to talk about it. And that's a positive for everybody listening. And so it sounds like you were doing fine. You could just do better. And now you did better, and now you're free. How does it feel to have zero debt? Did you notice a change? Yeah, no, it's like the tension in your shoulders just drops.

You're like, you don't know anybody. Now it's time to go tackle the house and start moving in that direction. In our mid-40s we could we could have no debt period house everything so and brandy you said that was student loans from you yes so how does that feel for that all to be gone did you notice something when it left or you're just kind of a course of business okay check well i mean i was happy i don't i'm not i don't get like super really like worked up about stuff i guess that's the nurse in me too. Stay calm.

Yeah, but I was like, man, we paid it off. That's great. It was actually from my undergrad. When I got my bachelor's, I paid my job pay for it, and now I'm getting my doctorate, and we're actually cash flowing that too. So we were paying for my doctorate and paying all of the debt off and doing all the other stuff.

Good for you. Good for stuff. Good for you. Good for you. Good for you. Well done, you guys. You're a power couple. That's awesome stuff. Now, you bring the kiddo with you to do a debt-free scream? How old is he and what's his name?

He's five. This is Reed. Reed. Has Reed been involved in all this? You know what's going on? Oh, yes. Yeah, he listens to the Ramsey Show quite a lot with us. Oh, I'm sorry, Reed. We should get you some good music to listen to. Childhood right there. you know what's going on oh yes yeah he listens to the ramsey show quite a lot with us oh i'm

sorry reed we should get you some good music that's a scarred childhood right there well we got a copy of the baby steps millionaires book for you that's definitely the next chapter in your story as well as a total money makeover book for you to give away to someone and stir up a holy ruckus with that thing somewhere. Tell them what you did. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. Very well done. You're a great couple. Tony and Brandy and Reed from North Carolina, $34,000 paid off due mainly to combining their accounts

and their goals and their values. Did it in five months, making $150,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Look at Reed. He stepped up.

He was in it, man. Yeah, go Reed. He understood the assignment. Way to go, buddy. That's awesome. Oh, man. It's amazing how people can share a bed, share DNA, share a child, but they won't share a bank account, Dave. That's just too personal.

Wow. I love a story like that. Oh, man. That's awesome. Way to go, Smart Dollar Team. Good work. Yes. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Our scripture of the day, 1 Thessalonians 5, 16, and 18.

Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. G.K. Chesterton said, I would maintain that thanks are the highest form of thought, and that gratitude is happiness doubled by wonder. Ooh, that's good. I like that. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Ashley is with us in Dallas. Hi, Ashley. How are you? Hi. Okay. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up, kiddo?

Good. Thank you. So, I am calling. calling i'm gonna try to keep this as clear as i can i'm in a bit of a complicated situation um but i just found out that about three weeks ago um that i am expecting a child yay this would be my first. Thank you. Um, however it is, um, I, the person that, you know, that would be the father would be my ex-husband. Um, and, um, I'm not sure at this moment if he will be around um it's you know he's being very um unclear about that um apparently he was around recently yeah yeah definitely yeah um yeah it's crazy um but i mean he says that he i mean i'm not getting that he's opposed to it.

He says he's okay with it. At the same time, he's not really talking to me. How old are you two? I'm just confused. I am 34. He is 42. Does he have a job? Does he have a job?

Yes. Do you have other children from the marriage? No, no. Okay. No. How long have you been divorced? About three and a half years. Okay.

Yeah. And how much do you make a year, honey? Me? me um well i have a disability so i'm doing like maybe 17 000 before taxes a year because i can't really work too much what is the nature of your disability um so i have multiple sclerosis so i have some mobility issues and um vision a little bit i'm just kind of a myriad of things. You got family in the area? I have my adoptive mom. She's kind of close-ish. She's about an hour away from me.

So that's all I really have in that regard. But I'm just kind of lost because I don't know how to prepare for this financially. I understand I'm going to probably need to change some things living situation-wise because I live in a very small apartment that's only 324 square feet. I have a very small car. It's like a smart car. And I just got told it probably will need a new engine. So I'm going to have to replace that. And I just don't know how I'm going to do all of this financial wise, especially with the rent being like it is and the car prices being the way that they are. Um, I just don't know how I'm going to do this and prepare for this child financially, especially if I may have to do it alone. And I don't really know exactly yet, but I'm trying to plan.

There's so much going on here. I'm so sorry. That's a scary, scary situation you find yourself in. Okay. Okay, so what I would tell my best friend, if they called and told me the exact thing you told me, is I would tell them that you need to get people in your corner as much as possible. That's why I was asking about friend or family. I would definitely start working on the career side of your equation. Find something that you're able to do that makes a lot more money that is within the tolerance of your ms uh ms is as i understand is aggravated by stress so you can't

be in a high stress scenario but you're getting ready to be in a stress you're getting ready to be in a stressful financial situation if you don't create some more income so you're going to create some more income i would uh uh do you do you belong to or have you visited or are you aware of a local church in your area that you respect? Well, I've been going to a church online. Which one? It's not really in my area. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's in Oklahoma.

But I know of one that's in the area that i couldn't you know get connected with i want you to get connected so you've got emotional support and when they know what you're going through maybe even some financial support temporarily while you get your income up and you make a transition to different living in different vehicle but don't do any of it with debt because that's going to bring you down further. We've got to get your income up and make these moves. Right, yeah, yeah. But you're going to have to have some people around you

that are walking with you and are supporting you emotionally, financially, relationally, everything, because you're kind of by yourself out here on a limb and you're scared. Right, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what i feel right now i'm like i feel like i was you know i'm almost basically out of debt i only have like 150 dollars left on a medical loan my student loan was discharged so that's another thing that is kind of hindering me on the income side but that's good um well it can of hindering me on the income side. That's good. Well, it can still be discharged. You've been permanently, you've been declared permanently disabled.

The student loan is gone. It doesn't come back. If you go get a job, it doesn't come back. And so you've got the rest of your life to live and create an income, and $17,000 isn't a good life. So we need to work on this income side of the equation long term for you and for the baby. Lastly, while you're at that church, ask the folks there if there is an attorney there that could give you some advice. I'm not an expert on the law in Texas, but in most states, your ex-husband is going to be responsible for child support,

whether he wants to be involved or not, legally. In most states, a percentage of his income will go to raise the child that he calls to come into the world. And I don't really care whether he likes it or not. I'm not really taking a poll here of his feelings. I'm worried about one thing, and that's the child. Yeah. No, thank you.

I appreciate that, because I was like, I don't know what my rights are, since, you know, this is new, you know. I'm not sure what your rights are either but i suspect you're due child support that's my suspicion yeah and so i would you know and i think you're probably going to have to get someone to help you at least coach you a little bit on the legal side so you can have this discussion with him and he can do this voluntarily or we'll have a judge instruct him to do it whichever he prefers. Yeah. Yeah.

I hope that we can work that out. But no, thank you. Yeah. I think you, so here's what I think I'm saying. I think if you have some family support, some community and church support, and some money coming from the father, and you start to adjust your income and your living situation and your car situation by the time you make all those adjustments this is all going to be okay but you're going to need

all of those things bringing to bear on the problem yeah i'm so sorry you're going through this actually let us know if we can help down the line as you sort through this and figure out what the next steps are but uh that's a real tough thing to be walking through and you've got to have those people in your corner so i love the idea of you plugging into a local church. Yeah. So hang on, Kelly will pick up, and we're going to get you signed up for Financial Peace University online so you can go through the class and get in the EveryDollar app. That'll help you manage the money as you increase your income from child support and from a changed career. You'll be able to manage that because your

income is getting ready to double or triple by the time we finish with all these things here um should anyway and so we got to get you to 34 maybe to 45 000 by the time all the smoke clears on this and um you know you've also got to investigate uh you know what your uh medical insurance situation is uh for the labor and delivery and start preparing for that as well. But we'll walk with you. We're here in your corner. If you get scared and you need some more help, you call us anytime, hon. Wow.

It's heartbreaking. George, good show today. Good show, George and James and Ben and Kelly in the booth. Kelly celebrating 10 years with Ramsey today. And so her 10-year Ramseyversary. Yeah, good stuff. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus. do you love a good day friend want to see the latest ramsey show videos going viral check out your favorite moments from the ramsey show on youtube go watch and subscribe to the ramsey show channel on youtube