The Ramsey Show - App - You Can’t Borrow Your Way to Freedom

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Music From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by number one bestselling author Rachel Cruz, who's also my cohost on Smart Money Happy Hour, another Sean Ramsay network, and we're taking your calls at triple 8, 825-5225. Amanda's gonna kick us off in Tampa, Florida.

Amanda, welcome to the show. Hey, good afternoon. Good afternoon to you. How can we help today? Okay, so I have one of them huge car payments. It's about $900 a month. I owe $34,000 on it. It is a 2022 BMW. So my question is, it's only valued at $34,000. The auto trader value is $25,000. I would get about $2,000 back in warranty. Warranties if I fold it back to the BMW dealer. I have $10,000 in my savings account. So my question is, should I get rid of the car? Because it's

kind of hurting us financially paying a car payment that high. Yeah for sure. I mean $900 bucks. That'd be nice to have, right? Versus it going to a car payment that high. Yeah, for sure. I mean, 900 bucks, that'd be nice to have, right? Versus it going to a car payment. Okay, so you said it's valued at, I think you said it's valued at 34,000, but then you looked on auto trader and it's at 25,000. Yes, so I owed 34,000. Oh, okay, I'm sorry, I gotcha.

I owe 34,000, it's valued at 25,000. Oh, sorry, I owe 34. It's valued at 25. Is that like trade-in? Have you? Yeah. Okay, you don't want trade-in value. You want like a private party value. You can check on Kelley Blue Book for that. That's gonna be much higher.

And that might get you closer to where you're not underwater on this thing. Yeah, so let's say it gives you like 5,000 more just for the fun of it, okay? So that means we'll just say 30,000, you owe 34. So yeah, I would take 4,000 out of your savings so that it's, you know, you can like after you sell it right, that you can pay off the remaining of the debt, get the title to the new people and you're done free and clear. And then just, I mean, I would just go buy like a, um,

$5,000 car. The rest of your savings? Leave a thousand bucks in there? Okay. I actually have an extra car. Oh, perfect. That's like my luxury car. So I do have a beater. Well, there you go. God bless America.

Amanda, God bless America. Our cars have cars in America. Well, then there you go. Well, so now you don't have to, yeah, so you don't have to spend it and you guys have 10 grand. What other debt do you have? Okay, so I'm pretty, the past month, like I've canceled, like I've changed phone services, I got rid of the internet, I got rid of streaming.

Wow, good for you. I changed homeowners insurance, I paid my car insurance for six months. So I have 190 in a home and my home is worth about 650. Nice. And then I do have, what I'm trying to work on is my 14,000 in credit card debt. Okay, perfect.

Well, what's crazy about this, all of this math that you have, yeah, you'll only have $5,000 of credit card debt left because you'll put nine of your savings towards it. Okay. And yeah, you'll be doing great. Oh, well, you're not over water. That's right.

You will have to put, yeah, yeah, yeah. You may have to put 4,000. But if you could sell exactly what you owe, if you check Kelly Blue Book and you can get private party value, 34 grand, I would do that. Get as much as you can, get top dollar for it so that you're not having to dip into savings.

Okay. And then use nine of the 10 to knock down your credit card debt and then you're gonna be debt free in a few months. What's your household income? So I just took a lower paying job as a school teacher. So our household income now is 5,000. That's not.

A month. It used to be about, yes, it used to be eight and now it's five. And is that after taxes and everything? Yes. Okay, that's what you're bringing up. And is this two of you? Is there another person involved here? Yes.

Okay, and what are they doing for work? My husband's a contractor, but as of right now with the changing market, he may have to actually look for more work. There's not enough contract to work for him? No, due to interest rates, he builds homes for a living. So people aren't building homes right now with the interest rates being so high in our area.

Are there other contracting gigs he could do? Does he work for a builder? Actually, right now he's working for a small mom and pop builder. And his trailer park this afternoon doing like carpentry work. So he has been trying to find other little side hustles. I just feel like contractors are in high demand. You can't find enough of them that do quality work and show up on time and charge a reasonable rate. And so he should be able to find stuff

outside of the new build world to keep him plenty busy to get this income up. Cause he should be making 5K a month on his own. Yeah. Without your salary. Are you guys able to live on the 5K, Amanda? Yes, because I've cut, like I said, I've cut so much like the car wash and... Well for him, I mean he needs to be working 40 hours somewhere to be bringing in money

for you guys to pay off the set and get a good emergency fund in place. So even if it's not contracting, he doesn't need to be just sitting and waiting on jobs. I mean, go do something. You know what I mean? Well, he's listening, so you tell him. Oh, good. Okay. He's pretty handy, right? What's his name? Ray.

Hey, Ray. Ray, listen, I pay handymen really good money. I'm talking they can charge now anywhere from 50 to a hundred bucks an hour. And George doesn't know how to do anything. And there's lots of Georges in America. They don't know how to fix anything. The only squats I'm doing are diddly.

And so he can get out there in your neighborhood, get in the Facebook page and just say, hey, I'm doing handyman work. My rate is 75 an hour. And that's equivalent to 150 grand a year if he's doing that full time. Yeah. And so I believe in Ray. I think he needs a little pep in his step.

And now's the time to really put your foot on the gas, clean up the debt, get a fully funded emergency fund. Then we have the luxury to choose what kind of jobs we take. But now's the time to really put your foot on the gas, clean up the debt, get a fully funded emergency fund. Then we have the luxury to choose what kind of jobs we take. But right now we need money coming in. Yeah, and getting rid of this car, Amanda,

is gonna free you guys up a lot. I mean, $900, that's a fourth of your take home pay is going on a car payment. Woo. No, it's the same as my home mortgage. Wow. What an American story, George. You pay as much for our car payments as we do mortgage. So. Wow. What an American story, George. You pay as much for our car payments

as we do our mortgage payment. Well, Amanda, well, I'm glad you called. I hope that helps just to kind of get this ball moving for you guys. And again, any extra income is going to help, but you guys are doing well. I mean, the car's got to get out of here. And then $900 is freed up to put on the debt.

And then if Ray is the best handyman in town, he's gonna be making good money. I just feel like it's an untapped market. No, it is. You know, it's wild though, Amanda and Ray, if you're listening. So even in our neighborhood, there is a recommendations group me,

like a specific group just for recommendations just within our neighborhood. And the amount of recommendations we get for plumbers, electric, I mean, you go through the list of things that people are asking, hey, do you know someone that does this? Like it's out there. People are willing to pay for it, so.

I have a really embarrassing story I'll share, Rachel. This happened this week. Yes, yes. That my, the lights and plugs in our master bedroom just would not work anymore. And I tried everything. You flipped the breaker? I flipped the breaker.

Good for you, George, I'm proud of you. I was Googling things, I was texting, so finally I had an electrician come out and I said, what's your rate? I always ask them the rate ahead of time. They said 125 an hour. They show up to the house. These two guys.

Oh, I got to swallow my tea, make sure I don't spit it out. Is it the? Five minutes later, they go, all right, we fixed it. I said, what'd you do? They said, we just flipped the breaker. I said, I flipped the breaker. They said, yeah, you got to do it harder. I was like, how hard can you flip a breaker switch? This is insane. I don't know.

So you didn't turn it off all the way, basically with the... I flipped that thing dad gum 17 times back and forth. I was angry with it. Do you sometimes have to let it pause and let it sit there for a little bit? They had, I don't know, Excalibur's magic sword. I don't know what happened, Rachel, but anyways. Ray, are you listening? I got the invoice.

There's Georges out there. 120 dollars. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it.

I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go get it. They had, I don't know, Excalibur's magic sword. I don't know what happened, Rachel. But anyways. Ray, are you listening? I got the invoice. There's Georges out there. $125.

Don't flip the breakers. These guys are making $1,000 an hour at this rate. They spent five minutes at my house. Yeah, then they're going to the next George, George Camel going to the house. Let's go flip some more breakers. Trying to become Baby Steps millionaires off of idiots like this.

This is the Ramsay Show. Welcome back to The Ramsay Show. Tonight, this is April the 21st, John Delaney and Dave Ramsey are kicking off the Money and Relationships Tour. Is this the first night? The first night. For the tour. We've been talking about this forever

and it's finally happening. So if you're in Louisville, they're happening tonight. April 21st, go check it out. Durham is happening this Wednesday, April 23rd. Atlanta this Friday, April 25th. And here's what they're doing. They're going to be doing some improv, talking about money and relationships,

helping you break patterns that have left you stuck, breaking the cycle, and you get to choose the content before the event begins. And then they'll be riffing on it all night long, unfiltered and it's gonna be a great time. So check it out, Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, that's this week. And then they'll be coming to Phoenix, Fort Worth

and Kansas City, the first and second week of May. Kansas City sold out, Fort Worth is not far behind. So get your tickets today to see Dave and John live, ramsysolutions.com slash tour, or click the link in the show notes and description. Jessica is up next in Milwaukee. What's going on Jessica? Hey, how are you both doing? Doing great. How can we help? So my husband and I just started financial peace university a couple weeks ago. Awesome. How's it going? It's going really well. We are a

one-income family so realized our income wasn't quite where I needed it. So I did pick up a side gig as well. Good. What is it? My question, I am driving food delivery. Oh good. That's great. Through one of the apps like an Uber Eats or DoorDash, one of those? Through DoorDash. Okay. So it's my first time being a 1099 employee. And my question is, how do I budget so that I'm not setting myself up for failure

come next tax season? Great question. The easiest way to do this this to just kind of muscle memory is just force yourself to put a third of whatever you make into a savings account and that way you'll have the money set aside for taxes. Okay. So if you made let's say a hundred dollars, you're going to take 33 bucks and just transfer it to savings. Okay. And then what you'll do on top of that to make it even easier and avoid stress and avoid a big tax bill is make quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website.

That's what I used to do when I would do side hustles. And basically you're just estimating what you're going to owe in taxes and paying the IRS ahead of time so that when the end of the year comes, you've already paid most of your taxes, if not all. Does that affect my full-time employment? Would that make, would that change that at all or would you still do the quarterly payment? You'd still do quarterly payments because you're not being taxed on that 1099 income versus your full-time employment.

They're taking taxes out already. They're withholding. Okay. They're taking taxes out already. They're withholding. Okay. So that's the big difference with 1099 folks is no one's paying the taxes for you. No one's withholding for you. You've got to do it all yourself. And that's where this kind of savings account

quarterly estimated payments plan comes into place. Sounds good. That's what I needed to know. Awesome. Thank you so much for the call. Way to go doing whatever it takes. I know. I shared. Thank you so much for the call. Way to go. Doing whatever it takes. I know. I shared on Smart Money Happy Hour my Instacart side hustle.

Yes, you did for a weekend. What a struggle that was. They're hard workers. I think I did seven trips and it felt like a thousand. Just so much. Will this ever end? So God bless all of you out there side hustling. Tip your people well. If you're out there using these apps. That's why I was shocked. You're coming back and saying people didn't tip.

I went to some real wealthy neighborhoods man around this part of town, Rachel, $3 tip. I mean, that's, that's pretty unbelievable. I had gallons of waters and delivering to the door, three trips back and forth from the trunk. What a physical labor. All for $3 tip. I don't think that's right.

In the trips, they don't pay you much in these apps. They'll tell you ahead of time, Hey, you're going to get $6 for this trip plus tips. Yeah, so yeah, make it worth it. Yeah, an hour of my time for $9? Yep. Get out of here. Get out of here. All right, next up we've got Rachel in Milwaukee.

Rachel, meet Rachel. Hello. Hi, Rachel. Hey, you're breaking up on us, can we hear you? Can you hear me? There we go. There you are. What's going on? Can we hear you? Can you hear me?

There we go. There you are. What's going on? I have just over $250,000 in debt and I recently received a summons for medical debt. So I did speak to a few attorneys and they're all suggesting bankruptcy. I've listened to you guys long enough to know

that that's usually not a suggestion. I'm just kind of curious as to where I go from here. Is all 250 in medical debt? No, about 61,000 is medical debt. Is medical. What's the rest of it? I have about 27,000 in credit cards. I have 6,500 in a car loan, 13,000 in a personal loan, I got

78,000 in private student loans and 65,000 in federal loans. In federal loans, okay. So over what, 14- so 140 of its student loans? Correct. Pretty much. Oh man, Rachel, okay. How much are you making a year? I would say I make around 78, so I can check probably like 60, maybe 59. Okay, you're kind of breaking up, Rachel. Yeah, I wanna make sure we get these numbers right.

Okay, so after taxes- You're bringing home about five grand a month. I'm so sorry, we're having a hard time hearing you. That's a shameful one. We'll see if we can clean up your line and get you back on, Rachel. But looking at these numbers, bringing home 5,000 a month, I don't know that you'll even be able to make your payments on these debts.

And the only one that you could really clean up fast is getting rid of the car loan if you're not underwater on it and you can use the proceeds to get something else. But that only cleans up six grand out of 250. I know, out of the whole thing. So it may not even be worth it. The medical debt, I'm wondering if they'll,

they'd be willing to settle. You'd probably need to get on some sort of payment plan. And same with the credit cards. I mean, the $27,000 in credit cards, I would, if you are defaulted on any, Rachel or behind, call those first and ask them for a settlement. Or if you are defaulted on any, Rachel or behind, call those first and ask them for settlement. Or if you have any extra, like if you had a bill,

you know, a $6,000 credit card, just pretend that you were behind on and I don't know what your savings situation is, but even if you had three grand, half of it, call them and say, hey, I can settle today. And as you do that and save up a little bit, most of these credit card companies, especially if it's in default, they actually would settle.

Sometimes pennies on the dollar, depending on how long it's been not paid. But so yeah, the medical and the credit card is probably where you can do the most negotiating. Gosh, the student loan, 140,000, I almost would put that on hardship deferred, I wonder with the medical stuff, if you're able to do anything there.

I'm just trying to get you to a place where you can get at least stability. Yeah, of just the payments before even looking to attack it. Cause to your point with all of this, I don't even know if she's making enough for that. Let's see if your lines clean up. Rachel, are you still with us? I am.

Okay, do you have anything in savings? I have about 1200 in savings. Okay, so that's your baby step one. You've got that covered. And you're just solo, right? You're not married? Correct. Okay.

And what are you doing for a job? Like, what was your degree in? I'm a nurse. You're a nurse. Okay, what type of nurse are you? I'm an LPN. Okay. Could you of nursery are you? I'm an LPN. Okay. Could you do like travel nursing?

I could, but according to like their ads in terms of pay, it's not much different. Oh no. Every travel nurse that calls the show is making like $250,000. Yeah, I mean, they're making insane money, insane money. So Rachel, I would be doing your research hardcore into that because-

In the meantime, take as many shifts as you can. Yes, because I'm so glad you're a nurse because that gives such a range of possibilities of what you can be making. And I'm thankful that that's the case because yeah, some of these travel nurses, man, they do it for two to three years and they make so much money.

It's wild. So no, I would be researching into that heavily because that's gonna be the biggest thing, Rachel, to get you out of this is the income side. And again, that's the positive of your situation is I think that it is out there, whether it's working overtime, like you're saying, George, or just finding a new line of work

within nursing that pays more. Yeah. But that's gonna're saying, George, or just finding a new line of work within nursing that pays more. Yeah. But that's going to be your, yeah, I mean, that you're going to find more money doing that, Rachel, figuring out how to work overtime than doing like Instacart shopping, like what we were just saying. So you are qualified to make a lot of money in extra time. So if you're working an extra few shifts, yeah, that's going to bring it up. And so that's going to be it, Rachel.

And so it's going to be knocking out this debt, smallest to largest. And again, seeing where you can settle. And you'll probably be able to settle the most with the medical and the credit cards. And the longer they've been in collections, the more willing they will be to negotiate and settle. But first, cover your four walls, food, utilities,

your housing, your transportation. You pay those before you pay anybody else. If there's money left over, we can throw some payments their way. I'm gonna set you up with a financial coach on us, Rachel, to walk you through all of this. So hang on the line, we're gonna get you connected

to a Ramsey-preferred financial coach who can walk with you. So sorry you're going through this. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, if you're enjoying the show, do us a quick favor. Hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're enjoying the show, do us a quick favor, hit the subscribe or follow button, wherever you're listening or watching, leave us a kind review, share it with a friend. All of that helps us reach more people with this message. We appreciate you guys. Ben is up next in Cleveland, Ohio.

Ben, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi guys. How are you guys doing? Doing well. What's going on with you? So my wife and I just purchased our second home and we have closing in about 30 days and we have the means to pay cash for it but our financial advisor is telling us not to and I've been listening to you guys for a while and I'm leaning towards the side of

paying cash for it but my wife isn't there yet so I was wondering if you guys have any advice for us on that. What's the financial I'm I think I know the answer I just want to hear it from you what is the financial advisor saying why you shouldn't be paying cash? So his main reason he says is taxes and the interest that we're earning on the money is more than the interest rate that we'd be paying on a loan. Yeah. Yeah. What's the taxes?

What was he saying? Taking money out, you'll have to pay taxes on the money you have invested? Yeah. Yeah. But you're going to have to do that at some point. Yeah. And I realized that. I think the problem that I'm struggling with is the disconnect between my Yeah and I realized that I think the the problem that I'm

struggling with is the disconnect between my wife and I. How do I help her understand I like I like I realize and like we've done the math and I've showed her the numbers of like you know what we'd be paying for the mortgage. So the house is $575,000. We're selling the one that we have now. We have that. We did a loan on that because that's kind of what she wanted to do and I was okay with that at that point. And this one, I think there's a disconnect between her and I and I'm not sure how to get over that. Yeah, from a relational standpoint is what that ends up being.

So I think one of the things that's hard, that's not so black and white when it comes to this argument of the investment and the interest rate and all of it is what you can't put into an Excel file in a formula is peace of mind and autonomy of just having the ability, right? To own everything you have, including your largest asset, probably the one nearest to a family's heart of safety and security is your home, right?

Like it's literally the roof that you go under to live and raise your family. Like it is such a personal part of your life and to have that and have such peace with knowing that there is no money owed on it that you have the ability to, you just can't put that into a financial formula. And then the other thing I would say, Ben is, you know, we've done the largest study of millionaires ever done. And one of the number one things that people say in order to get them to a place of millionaire status

and to continue to build wealth to change their family tree is to pay off their home. So people are looking to do this. This is a goal people have. And it's such a outlandish goal because so many people don't have the ability to do it right now. So it's a seven year goal, right? So the fact that you all can do that today, it just puts you so ahead, so ahead of where you are. And what's wild too is just running the formula of, okay, let's just say you, let's pretend that, yeah, you invested the mortgage payment every year or every month, right? And how quickly you could build back up your savings even by just doing that. And so, yeah, I think it is scary because it is a lot of

money that you're just putting out there, but you're putting it into an asset that continues to go up in value. And the market right now, I mean, if you have the money, it's a great time to buy because it's so volatile, right? Even in the last, with all the tariffs stuff, even in the last like two weeks, it's just up and down. It's just crazy. And so if anything, I would want more stability in my life and having it paid off home gives you a huge level of that. And so that's the hard thing is you can't, where a financial advisor usually is looking at the math and the numbers and the percentages,

you can't put the emotional part of money into that. And so that's the point that I feel like is always a hard turn for people to understand. But you know what I would tell her too, Ben, if she would, which I know this is a big deal, but I would ask her like, hey, since we did the mortgage on the last house, can we do the paid off home, pay for cash this,

and let's give it nine to 12 months? And if we hate it, if we hate having a paid off home, pay for cash this, and let's give it nine to 12 months. And if we hate it, if we hate having a paid for house, like it's just the worst thing in the whole world, go take a mortgage out on it. Like you can do that. You can always go backwards and do that. And I'm telling you, he's gonna be like, no, this is great.

I'm with Rachel on this. And Ben, I'm curious, do you have all this money invested with your financial advisor? Yes. Okay, so let's answer another question. There you go. Is the financial advisor incentivized to keep your money with him

instead of having it in the equity of your home? Yeah, so can I give you guys a little bit of a backstory here? Sure. And I think it has somewhat to do with why my wife is feeling the way that she is. So this money, um, we're, we're 25 and 27 and this money came from her parents being killed when she was a, uh, when she was a baby and there's a lawsuit. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. So, and then it's been invested for 20 years.

So there's a larger sum of money than that. But for her, it's like this, I think it's been her security. It's this emotional tie still. Yeah, it's a- And like an emotional tie to that. Yeah, totally. And she wanted the house, like we're purchasing it. Um, but like seeing that money leave the account is, is what's I think hard on

her. Yeah. Um, and, and yeah, like, uh, George, what you were saying about is this investor incentivize to keep the money in his account. Like I, I understand that, that but like I don't how do I tell my wife that in a way that she understands. Like I don't want to that almost sounds like because of the the attachment to the money that that she has. I don't know if that makes any sense. No it does. So I think to George's

point I think your wife can understand that regardless of how the money came to be. And we don't know the heart of this financial advisor either. I don't think they're a bad person. I don't think they're malicious. It's just the nature of their job. Yeah, there's a nature of the job that is very understandable

that I think anyone can kind of grasp and understand. So there's that piece. And then for her, I mean, I would say that the legacy of continuing her parents' legacy, this is a beautiful way to do it. I mean, it's almost like- You're really redeeming a terrible situation. It's almost like they purchased this home for you all,

right, in a sense, that you get to raise your family in. Like there's something beautiful in that. And the fact that if you guys continue down this road and continue to invest and be smart about it, like maybe you all can pass that legacy on to your kids. Right? Like you can continue this snowball effect of something that was so horrific and so terrible to be able then to do something beautiful

and redemptive about it. And in my head, I'm like, as a parent, I would want my kids to have the least stressful life financially if they can. And that's partly making smart decisions with money on your day-to-day basis, but it's also when you go and purchase really large items, cars, houses, to do it in the wisest way

that becomes a blessing and not a curse. And this is doing that for you all. Do you know what I mean? Like, so I see it as a beautiful tool. And for her, I can't imagine her story and the fact that it was, you know, as a child and growing up without your biological parents and ending in such a tragic way.

I mean, all of that, there's so much there. And so the grief and the attachment is a tragic way. I mean, all of that, there's so much there. And so the grief and the attachment is totally understandable emotionally. And this is gonna sound harsh, Ben, but I am gonna just say it. Sometimes our emotions are the worst drivers when it comes to financial decisions too. And so we don't want our emotions driving things.

Sometimes it is leaning back on looking at, okay, what's better overall for our entire financial picture? Cause people do a lot of things out of fear, grief, stress, right? We look at these emotions and they don't always, they're not, there are indicators and you know, they're the lights on our dashboard of saying, hey, this thing is lighting up and that's something to be curious about and dig into on your own personal story and

what's going on with you. I think that's important, but we don't want it to be the only thing driving our financial decisions. Cause usually it's's not we've said fear is A terrible financial advisor. Yeah, so Ben what what would the mortgage payment be? Give me just a ballpark. I Believe it'd be 3500 a month. Okay. Here's the good news. I just popped it in this investment calculator 3500 a month from 25 to 65 You'd have 22 million in there. So if the fear of security- By when, by when, by when? By 65. Okay, 22 million.

22 million, which is more than you got now. She just invested the mortgage payment bit. Exactly, so there's a piece of this we have to tackle it with the emotion, the pain point she's experiencing, then you can use the logic and math to go, it's gonna be okay, here's the real facts. We're rooting for you guys, this is The Ramsey Show.

The Ramsey Show Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you wanna join the conversation. And let's see, Rachel, I think we have a question of the day here from YRefi. If you've got defaulted student loans that don't let you gain any momentum, we get it.

No judgment here, but also nobody's coming to bail you out. So take charge today, yreffi.com slash Ramsey. They offer refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. That's the letter Y, refy.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. And today's question comes from Michael in North Carolina. Is it wise to open up a 0% interest credit card

to handle a big expense with the intention of paying it down before the interest kicks in. My partner can't understand why this is a horrible decision. We need chimney repairs and it's gonna cost up $4,500. We have enough saved to pay with cash. She doesn't want to use that money because she thinks it's the emergency fund should be able to be used,

only can be used in case of a job loss. How can I convince her that it can also be used for repairs like our leaking chimney? Oh boy. There we go. We're using the wrong tool for the job. I think that's, this is one of those

where it feels like a smart idea and then it becomes a slippery slope where you just stay in debt your whole life thinking that you're winning the game. So the 0% interest credit card, you have a big expense. Here's what happens. You end up going into debt to cover this big expense that you couldn't save up for.

You stay in debt, you can't pay it off in the terms that were laid out of you need to pay this off within six months before interest kicks in. And then you call the Ramsey show and you've got payments all over your life going well we got the 0% card and it all started there. Yeah. So the solution here is an emergency fund not another credit card. Yeah, which you guys have. So we have enough save to pay with cash she doesn't want to use it she thinks the emergency fund should only be used in case of a

job loss. That's not the case. Yeah, emergency fund is for things that are, what's our four things? Urgence. Unexpected. Unexpected, urgent. Necessary. And necessary. And I would say a chimney, I'm gonna say is necessary.

I feel like there could be a lot of house fires if this thing goes wrong. And then for the future, set up a sinking fund for maintenance and repairs, knowing, hey, you know what, the chimney is pretty old, probably gonna need some repairs in the next few years, let's go ahead and put a few hundred bucks away in a savings account just because we know

what's going to happen. But for now, use the cash, don't open a 0% card, you're not doing yourself any favors, you're just playing games with snakes. You're gonna get bit eventually. So I don't know how you can convince her, that's up to you. You decided to marry her. You figure it out.

But it's gonna take a little bit of a persuasion. Because right now she's thinking, this is my security blanket. I don't wanna touch the emergency fund. It's there to protect us while putting yourself at risk with this. With the other thing. That's it.

That's the illusion that debt can cause is that we are okay because we may have some money, cash in the bank, but you're at risk when you owe people money. Like there is still a level of risk involved that if something were to happen, and let's say you had to use your emergency fund because there actually was a job loss

and you hadn't paid off the credit card. Now there's a job loss with no emergency fund and a credit. You know what I mean? So just like, just start it. Start a claim. Don't do it. Just stay away. Your life's gonna be better.

You just pay for your life with cash. Only have a debit card. Don't even have the credit card open just in case. Just close it. Shut the door. Keep out the devil. That's what, remember that song back in the day? No.

Country song? I don't know. I grew up Arabic Baptist. We sang that song a lot. I got you. I know what it is. Keep the devil out? Is it a hymn?

I wouldn't call it a hymn. It's like a Sunday school song. Yeah, a Sunday school song. Rachel, a Sunday school song, Rachel. Wow, fine. Just leaving me in the dust. And I grew up charismatic. The comment section will back me up on this. They're gonna be like.

For fair. Oh my gosh, all right. All right, go to Julie. Let's go to Julia in Sacramento. How can we help, Julia? Hi, guys, thank you for taking the call. I'm calling because, and I had spoken, I think it was with Jonathan, I think, and they wanted me to call back, but I never got through.

That's alright. You're here today. I'm struggling with my husband, okay? I'm ready to divorce again. Oh gosh. Refuses to think about retirement. I don't know what to do. We're 66, 67. I have a teaching credential in Michigan, also in Texas, and applying even to Tennessee. But

the thing is, he says that we're stuck in this house, that if we move, it'll cost money. We're in California, so the house is worth a little bit of money because it's California. But we still owe, it's five something, but we still owe $325 or more on it. And I don't know what to do with all this. So what is his plan? He doesn't have a plan. Well you're in retirement age, so the idea of refusing to plan, you're Well, you're in retirement age. So the idea of refusing to plan, you're here, you're in it.

So what's he gonna do? What's he thinking? Do you have a big nest egg? Do you have a pension from teaching? Do you guys have 401k? No. So how are you guys paying bills right now? And he has a loss. Okay, how much is in that?

I don't know. Okay. He hasn't, he said zero. He said zero? Zero dollars a roll. Is he with you right now? He doesn't want to speak. Okay. That's fine.

I'm not trying to get him on the phone. I just, you were saying he said he has zero. That was a current- Right. Are you, how are you guys paying for food right now in the mortgage? Well, he's working. He's a service director of the dealership, so he has a good job. Okay, how much is he making a year?

I don't know, maybe $130, $135. Okay, and are you working, Julia? Right now, no. Okay. I'd like to get teaching again, but I'm not certified in California. We have two girls we adopted out of foster care so I get a little over a thousand for them. Sure, sure.

Almost two thousand, yeah. How old are they? One is ten, one is twelve. Oh wow, y'all are amazing. That would give me one reason to plan for retirement. That's right. Maybe two, two great reasons. How long is he wanting to plan for retirement. One, that's right. Maybe two, two great reasons. How long is he wanting to work for?

He's just, I don't know, he just thinks he's going to keep working and work. Here's the thing, even if you love your job, at some point your body's going to say, I can't do this anymore. Okay. That's how we're built as humans. We're not meant to last forever. So as much as he wants to work forever, what happens if there's a health issue at 70 and now this 130,000 income is gone and there's nothing to live off of and we got to take care of these girls? I don't know. That's why I'm calling you. Okay. So Julia, what I would say- I'm not sure if we should move out of state to somewhere cheaper than California.

I don't know. And then he's afraid that he won't get a job if we move. Yeah, which is a, I don't know, but he's a service tech? Is that what you said? No, he's a service manager. Service manager, okay. Okay, well, number one problem, Julia, is you guys, some of the questions I was asking of how much is in the Roth, how much does he make a year?

You said, I don't know, and you would just guess. I don't know, 130, I don't know, I think you're saying zero. Like, you guys haven't really talked about specifics of money, have you? A little bit, and I know he makes about 135, 130. Okay, so. But no, like I said, he just. Okay, well, we're to the point that.

I think it's he doesn't know what to do, you know? Sure. And I don't know what to do. Yeah, totally, okay, so, number one, we have to get on the same page of just saying, Julia is in a place where she's scared. She doesn't know what's gonna happen. You guys still owe $325,000 on your house.

You have nothing safe for retirement. You're in your late 60s, like lots of red flags, risk, risk, risk, scared, scared, scared. And so- Lots of red flags is right. Yeah, so there has to be, okay, so that's where you're at. We need to figure out, and you need to figure out, as his wife, where is he at?

Is it that there's a level of not knowing, and that's very intimidating, of what to do at retirement, whatever that is, but he needs to be honest with himself on what is causing him not to think about it because there's a reason why. Some people don't wanna think about it because they don't wanna think about death. So they don't wanna do wills

and they don't wanna do a state plan. There's a reason why people don't do things. So understanding that. And then you guys have to come together to say, we are both adults and guys have to come together to say, we are both adults and we have to plan. It is part of, it's part of society. We want to be able to eat when we're 80 years old

and not have to work our whole lives. So what do we need to do to get into place? Yeah, so we need to probably get with a financial advisor and get with someone who knows what they're doing. They live and breathe this stuff to be able to say, hey, let's map out how much you guys need to be putting away per month to get you to a place that is comfortable with retirement.

But the truth is you guys are going to have to work another 10 years to even probably get that. So I would be doing that, Julia. And you can't change him, OK? So if he won't not get on board on any of this, Julia, that's when we always say, separate the finances at that point. And then there's a point that you have to get a job and you on any of this, Julia. That's when we always say, separate the finances at that point. And then there's a point that you have to get a job

and you have to retire yourself, Julia. I mean, yeah, it's hard. Which we don't want. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm working out of state because I'm not certified in California. Yeah, you might need to lower your lifestyle, move to a lower cost living area and get the income up.

It might be all of the above, but I want him working because he wants to, not because he has to. And right now, he has to. This is The Ramsay Show. Live from the Ramsay Network, this is The Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour, and we're taking your calls at

triple 8, 825 5 2 2 5. Jamie is going to kick us off in Louisville, Kentucky. What's going on, Jamie? Hi, I'm just wondering at what point do you start adding fun money into your budget? What a great question for Rachel Cruz. Nobody loves fun money more than Rachel. Nobody loves to spend more like Rachel. At what point do you put it into the budget?

I mean, I would be okay having a little bit, a little bit of breathing room of, I don't know. I feel like here's my take and you can react. On baby steps two. How about that? My take is if you're in baby steps one, two or three, as little as possible to survive. Yes.

What's just gonna keep you just say, okay, I'm gonna as little as possible to survive. What's just gonna keep you just say, okay, I'm gonna make it another day to fight. And then once you're in baby step four, then I can ratchet that up to a reasonable amount and make sure I'm on track for other financial goals. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I would say with baby step two, there's a little bit of that, like,

I think the longer you're in debt, probably the more lenient I am of having some fun money. Cause if you're doing this for eight years, seven years, like Jade, right? Jade and Sam were seven. You know, people that are five years, like there's a reality. Plus the six months. Yes, exactly. There's a reality of life. Like if this is gonna be a long thing, like when are the times we just need to come up for air in order to go back down to stay longer down, you know, in the grind. But yeah, if you're able to get out of debt in like six months, I'd say

nothing for six months. So you can do anything. We've been in and out of debt. Well, there's a problem, Jamie. Why? Yeah. I have a mental health disorder that causes impulse control. Okay. And so that's a neat thing. Okay. We've gotten it under control. This time we learned what actually was the issue when I had my first daughter. And we learned it about halfway in between the first and second. And now we've gotten on medication. I've been able to round down my spending and keep everything within. And I've been, my husband's great.

I've been watching the Dave Ramsey stuff and in the background he's just doing validation. Um, because those are principal teams lived his entire life. That's it wasn't anything new to him. So where are you guys at right now? So we have paid off all the debt. Good. Good. We only have our mortgage left,

which I think we have about 70,000 left on. Great. Do you have an emergency fund? So we have the thousand, about fifteen hundred almost. We're trying to figure out when to start adding in and he's down to start. We make where we have about three to four hundred quote unquote extras to go into savings. A month? Every month as long as nothing happens. What's your household income? I know after taxes on both of his jobs since I'm a stay at home mom right now, after taxes

and healthcare and everything, we have about $51,000 each year. Okay. So a little over four grand coming in. Is he doing any investing right now? No. We don't know much about that, so we're not investing until we know. Okay, that's a good principle. Yeah, so for now Jamie, your next big financial goal is to get that $1,500 up to three, I would probably lean more that five to six month, which will take you guys longer of

an emergency fund versus the three. Just because of the kids, there's, you know, one person is the one making the income, and I don't know, there's just a little bit of that, kind of, anything that's a volatility or a level of risk, not that we say our children are risk, George, we would never say that. But you know what I mean?

There's a level of, yes, if something were to happen, we have other people that we need to take care of, not just ourselves. So I would go up more to that five to six month and then from there, yes, start thinking about investing and to say, okay, where can we put some of this money, 15% of our income? And that will be probably sitting down

with a SmartVestor Pro and just looking at Roth IRAs, 401Ks, like kind of just, I mean, I would just start at the basics and you guys can understand that pretty quickly. It's not too confusing, but having someone help you in that arena, I think is really smart. But for now, for you guys,

when you're still on baby step three, is what we would say from the baby steps. So I probably wouldn't have a ton of fun money. I mean, I would have some just to be able to live and enjoy. Well, the fact there's only 300 bucks of margin tells me you guys are running real tight. Cause at this point, it's gonna take you years to get this emergency fund in place.

That's not okay with me. If I was your coach I'd say we need to do some things with our income and expenses. So are your expenses 3,600 bucks a month? 3,900 a month, what are they? Our expenses I think added up after everything to about 26 to 28. Okay, but you're saying he's bringing in

over four grand a month, so there should be 1200 bucks laying around. Yeah, that's the, I gotta remember where we've had a lot of emergencies recently, and that's gone into the budget of like a car breaking down and things. And I believe that's where the rest has gone the past couple of months. Okay.

I would be aiming to try to save at least a thousand bucks a month to this emergency fund so that you guys can be done before the year's over. Okay. Or maybe by early 2026 because beyond that it's just too long. Baby step three is already a slog. It's not fun like paying off debt where you see momentum and progress. You're just stacking up, trying to build some foundation

before you can start building for the future. So I would work on that. What is he doing for a job, Jamie? You said he's working two different jobs. Yeah, so he works at a retail mattress store in one of the malls as his second job. Okay. And then he works for UPS in a paper desk job now. Okay.

As something or another. That's full time? As his main full time. Okay. Is UPS 40 hours and the mattress is stores on top of that? So is he working like how many hours a week would you say 50, 60? It really just kind of depends. So is he working like how many hours a week would you say 50 60? It really just kind of depends. Um, he, because

the mattress one is not going to be forever. Yeah. They've already showed that they are not trustworthy to keep us around. There's been maybe some layoff here and there. Oh wait, we need you back. So we're not going to. I'm shocked there's any mattress retailers still around. So I think he can, if he has skills in sales and people, he can probably find a better side job. Yeah, no, we're working on it and he's up for a raise soon, hopefully,

but if not, we're gonna be looking at completely switching careers soon. Yeah, I think that's a good idea, because ideally, especially when you're past baby step three, a sustainable 40 hour a week to support your life, that's going to be, for a long term perspective, what you're shooting for. Not working 60 hours a week just to make ends meet.

Yeah, we don't want that. And so we're in that in between. And Heath talked about letting me have some fun money. I'm scared to death of, I don't want to cause any more issues I want to get us through this and if I have fun money yes are you are you are you saying like a counselor or therapist for everything yeah that's okay I would ask them about it because you're right you're like I don't want to open up something psychological that makes me go off the rails. Right? You know, you don't want that,

but to have the safety of a licensed therapist or counselor to kind of be the one to help. They know about your story and what would be a trigger point for you when it comes to spending. Yeah, I would be curious what they would say about it. Okay. But one thing I would do is freeze your credits.

You have no option to go into debt, even if you wanted to. And you can do that for free. You can unplug all the card information from every site that you use. All of that stuff, adding more friction in is gonna help you just create more guardrails, more boundaries so that you don't slip back into debt.

Yeah, and Jamie, hold on the line and we'll get your husband, King Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, because in the back there's a great assessment that's fantastic about where your skills and your passions, everything, it kind of lines up. So if you stay on to do, because in the back there's a great assessment that's fantastic about where your skills and your passions, everything that kind of lines up. So if you stay on the call, Christian will pick up and we guys will give you guys a copy of that as he kind of starts looking at a holistic picture of his career. And you know what?

I'm going to send you Breaking Free from Broke. Read the Spending is Self-Controlled chapter. I hope it just helps you heal from this and create some good habits moving forward. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Hey, our Every Dollar team has multiple free trainings for you this month. So join them live to learn how to break the paycheck to paycheck cycle in 90 days. You're going to get a step-by-step walkthrough of the Every Dollar budgeting app.

Plus get your biggest budgeting questions answered live in the Q&A. Over 160,000 people have already joined. Spots are limited, so go sign up for free, everydollar.com slash webinar. Robin is up next in Orlando, Florida. How can we help, Robin? Hi, yes. How are you guys? Doing well. Hi, yes. How are you guys? Doing well. Okay, great. So my question is, I am $230,000 in debt with me and my husband are and... Say it again. Sorry, what was the number? 234?

$234,368.58. Perfect. You know your numbers. That's a start. Yes. I follow the EveryDollars app and I go see my family twice a year in Texas. And I feel guilty if I do because I'm trying to pay off my debt, but I feel guilty if I don't because my kids want to see my family. So I'm trying to figure out how to get out of that guilt thing. We put a lot towards our debt every month. We put between $2,000 to two to five thousand towards it every month. That's great. My husband makes a decent amount.

So is it okay that I go see them or like? Yeah, I mean, I don't yeah the thing with these kind of scenarios, I never say like is it okay? Yes or no to go see family. I think it's just a moral issue. No, it's just how fast do we want to get out of debt? I mean how much money are you guys spending on these trips? Like one trip to see your family, how much would that be? Five grand, two grand, one grand?

Like a grand. A thousand dollars? You left the most. Okay. And you're doing that twice a year. So we're talking two to $3,000 a year. And you're not going into debt for these trips? No, I put it in my budget. I do the Every Dollar app. I put it in my budget to plan it out for that trip. Yeah. And I

just pay a little less on my debt that month. Yeah, I mean again, I think it's one of these things with any level of, and I would probably put this in the category of like a luxury, because is there anyone sick? Like, is there like a, oh my gosh, like, you know, we're gonna go visit. Like we only don't know how many more years

we have with grandma, or is it just that this is a tradition, we always go see them for these holidays? It's more of a, I miss my family, I get homesick, and I like to go see them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is totally fine. So yes, I think it's one of these things, if you and your husband agree that two grand a year

is gonna put us back, you know, what, two months probably in a debt payoff in general, like is that, is that trade off worth it? And I mean, I would probably say, yeah, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like we've said, like if people are getting married out of state or like there's a destination wedding or there's a funeral, right? There's reasons to travel and it's usually for more of a celebration or an event that

is once in a, you know, something is happening. Can they come to you or are they too old? They come to us twice a year as well. So we see each other four times a year but they come to us and then we come to them. Last year we didn't go see them at all. Because why? But this year. Why didn't you go last year? We were opening a business and I had to really focus on that last year. And so it was very hard on our mental capacity. And I just had a newborn son. Okay, yeah.

So, okay, so Robin, I feel like you guys are very detail oriented. You know your numbers really well. What is the, when do you think you guys are going to be completely debt free? And does the 234 includes your mortgage or is that all consumer? That is all consumer. I also have a mortgage of 430,000. Okay and how much are you guys making a year? So my husband makes between 15 and 20,000 a month. Okay. About two to three years.

Why can you only put two grand a month towards your debt? Now I'm mad. No she said five thousand, two to five thousand. She said five thousand. Yeah, but he's making 20. Why do you guys have $15,000 of expenses every month? Well, we have a pretty high mortgage and then my son is in school, which that is about to change. So that number will go up.

That number is going to go down because he's about to be in pre-K. How much is the mortgage a month? 3,500 a month. Okay. And how much is the school a month? $1,500 a month. Okay.

So there's $10,000 left, Robin. At least. Where is that? And $5,000 we'll say is going to the debt. So they're living on five. Yeah, we're on five. George isn't happy. I'm not happy. Robin, here's on five. Yeah, George isn't happy.

Robin, George is not happy. That's just the extra. It's gonna take you guys six years to get out of debt. Do you hear that? It's gonna take you five or six years at this rate. That's at the minimum. So I calculated everything to the minimum and then anything extra goes straight towards the debt.

Like this month we put seven K towards our debt. Okay. Okay, that's good. Okay, so then they're living on three. But can I do the math for you? I try to. Average debt payoff for someone following the steps with gazelle intensity is 18 to 24 months.

Now you guys have a lot of consumer debts, that's just the average. You guys might lean to two, two and a half years, three years, but that still means you need to be putting seven to 10 grand per month consistently towards this debt to knock it out in two to three years. And I want that to be like come hell or high water, we are putting seven to 10 grand a month.

You understand? That is our plan, yes. The day in the summer months, my husband doesn't get as much extra work. So he works two full-time jobs and then he's a wedding photographer and he does a bunch of side gigs and makes him a lot of money.

But day in the summer, that slows down. So I lowered the number, the amount that we put towards the debt because we are making the minimum of 15,000 at that point. Okay. But do you see what I'm saying? I want you to have a fire. And right now I feel like you guys are fairly comfortable. The way you're talking and the lifestyle, I want you to cut this down

to nothing. You can still do the trip. The trip is not what's causing this. I think there's a lot of other leaks happening as well. And that's where this budget will reveal it to you very quickly. Hey, we made 20 grand this month. Where did it all go? But you're doing the every dollar budget, right? Yes. So you're seeing it. A lot of it recently has been going to the business. Okay, and what's the business? Is the business profitable? We're just now starting to make, uh, break even. Okay, what's the trajectory? Is this thing going to be making money in the next two months? Uh, it's a franchise and I'm hoping it will but we are currently breaking even. How much of this debt is tied to the business?

None of that. We have... How much of it is cars? Only $40,000. Only? I don't know what part of town you grew up in but that's a lot of debt. It's a lot but we have really good interest rates. We pay $ 500 per car.

You're so lucky Rachel Cruz is here to be a good cop. Oh no, Robin. Robin, I'm just telling you right now, call me back when you're serious and you actually want to get out of this mess, not when you want to tell me you have a great interest rate on your debt. I mean, you guys make a quarter million dollars a year. Do you understand how insane this is? Yes, yes I do.

That is why I am. How much is the, hey, hey Robin, how much could you get for the car right now? If you Kelly Blue booked it, what do you think? Have you Kelly Blue booked it? Probably not. I have actually. For my car, I would get about 10

and I owe 20 on it for my husband's car. I would get about 10 and I owe 20 on it for my husband's car. I would get about 20 and he owes 21 on it. Wait, hold on. The $40,000 car. Say that again. You would only get 20 for it? For my car I would get about 10 on my car. And you owe $40,000 on it? And I owe 20,000. Oh, okay. I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. I have two cars for 20 each.

I hear you. Okay. So 10 for yours and then what would he? And 20 for his. And 20 for his. And we have 21 on his. Okay. So the way you could look at this is the 40,000, which you'd have to put 10 because you're underwater 10,

but that's $30,000, which George, to your math of what you're saying, would be, the way she's going at five grand a month, you would save six months by just selling the cars. You could save six months of being in debt. So let's do that, Robin. And that would show, George, that you are serious. I need some skin in the game.

Robin, if y'all sold these cars in the next 10 days, then you're serious, okay? That would be like, yes, we are, we are scorched earth. We are doing anything and everything to get out of debt. And that would be the move to make that six. That's saving six months of your time of being in debt. It's just from cars. So that has to be your mindset. That's what George, how you feeling? You okay over there? I'm doing better. It's a little heat. Breathe, George, breathe. Just breathe.

Take some deep breaths, George, breathe. Just breathe. Take some deep breaths, George. So that's Robin, that's the kind of stuff we're talking about. And then from there, and if you can get out of this franchise, it's feeling like it's sucking up money and your husband's already working like four jobs, what you're saying.

So you guys have a lot of busyness and clutter in your life. So I would simplify everything and live a peaceful life. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, we have Jacques and Jennifer here to do a debt-free scream. Welcome, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Where are you guys from? Cincinnati, Ohio. Love it. Thanks for coming by to do your debt-free scream. How much did you guys pay off? $203,000. Oh my gosh. How long?

52 months. Yep. And making what kind of money during that time? Not enough. We started out about 160 and ended 230. Wow, what was the jump? Just some job changes, emotions. She got a new job.

Great, what do you guys do? I'm in, I'm a marketing director, property management. I'm a state trooper in Ohio. Okay, wonderful you guys. I'll remember you if I'm ever driving through Ohio and I get pulled over. You need someone. Well, we work on commissions, so.

Oh no, not gonna get George. I love it. And what did the $203,000 consist of, of debt? It was our house. Oh my gosh, completely debt free. We are weirdos. Oh, how does it feel? Unbelievable.

Yep, it was great. I can finally buy the things I want. There you go. There you go. It's funny you say that because we talk about in my book, Know Yourself Know Your Money, about why we want to win with money. And for some people, it's pure safety. It's like, I just want to feel safe.

And then for some people, it is more of this, I say status. It's not a bad thing, but it's like, I want to win so that I can enjoy my life and do things with that money. So I feel ya, I feel ya Jacques on that. That's great. I love it. Well she's making fun of me because I call it the summer of Jacques.

I'm doing all the things I've wanted to do. Now we can't. Going to NASCAR races, Formula One. The summer of Jacques. Oh, I love it. Yeah, was there like a big carrot you were dangling of like, this is the big thing I wanna do? Or was it like a habits, what are your hobbies?

What are the things that you were looking forward to doing once the house was paid off? Just to finally buy stuff that we want, upgrade the house. Buy experiences. More experience. I wanna go and see and do things. I love it.

That's amazing, you guys. Okay, so what happened 52 months ago that caused this whole journey of being weird people? I drank the juice or the lemonade or whatever it was called. And I just started just. And I followed. Yeah, yeah, I just started watching. Was it watching clips?

So how'd you guys get connected to us? She started. She. That was an accusatory. Yeah, that's right. That was an aggressive point. I'm good at that. She started on listening to the podcasts on the Ramsey Network and then when we were exercising

we would listen to stuff and she got hooked. And then you looked at your own numbers. So I followed her. So then you looked down and you went, here's a book. He's like, I'm hooked to her so I gotta get, no, there was a level that you were probably like, this sounds great. Well, I do like having the security. I'm a security person

Okay, you know now that you don't it's not fun knowing people money. Yes. Yeah, so the autonomy feels great That's just like you're on your own. There's no banks attached that you're like and I think it was kovat Yeah, kovat hit at the time. We had a mortgage. We were able to refi it like super low We took it down to 15 years, cause Dave said so. Yes. And then she just was like, let's hammer it out. Yeah.

And y'all did it together. Now Jacques says so. Yeah. He's his own man. I've been saying so for a long time, but you know, with an asterisk. Yeah. I love it.

Yes, yes. Oh, that's great you guys. So you just looked down and you went, all right, 203,000, we can knock. How quickly could we knock this out? Did you guys set a goal? We didn't. I mean, we cashflowed quite a bit of things.

Kind of. She did the ring thing. Yeah, and then that stopped. And you rip off a ring. Yeah. Oh, yes. A little chain. Yeah, but then that fell off the wall.

And so then we had a- Your arts and crafts project didn't work out. We were terrible. We didn't have tape, we didn't have the money for it. So. Whatever. Well, did you guys decide, hey, we can knock this out in five years or less?

Like, was there a sort of a, all right, this is doable in the foreseeable future? We just knew last year we wanted to pay it off by the end of the year. So 2024 was the year we were paying off our house. It was the big year. Okay. And you did it.

And we did it. And in that 52 months, was there consumer debt that you guys paid off first? We actually just, no, before we started, we paid off, I wrote a check for my car in 2019, and then we cash flowed a newer car, a bike for you, and then finished our basement. So we did other things and had great vacations. Incredible, yeah.

We didn't do rice and beans, we did ramen and popcorn. That was kinda mean. Actually, I like that diet better. That was completely. Yeah, actually I like that diet better. That sounds better. That's an upgrade I think. Ramen's pretty cheap. Maybe not an upgrade health-wise, but at least excitement-wise.

Okay, did you guys tell people what you were doing during this time? Were there people on the journey that were kind of cheering you on? Did you kind of keep it to yourself? I mean, you know, family members were cheering us on. I really just think that it was attributed to just listening to this pod, you know, the show

and just listening to everyone, their debt-free screams. Because honestly, everyone thought we were weird and we knew we were weird and we wanted to be weird. So, not a bad thing. Confidently weird, no insecurity here. Oh my gosh. And now they're gonna be going, can you guys tell me how you did that exactly?

Absolutely. You know, along the way, I told a lot of people how to do it or not what I thought what we thought you know and told them what we were doing and all that and they would listen and I think now that you've done it and they see what the results are maybe now they tune in a little bit more and they go yeah maybe it does work. Well they want a magic trick when you're telling them they're wanting some complicated cool strategy instead you're just like uh yeah just pay extra on the principal. Yeah

Tell me something stick with it. I think we didn't miss a month You know if we wanted something we stuck with that we didn't miss a month on next or payments Wow So that's a lot of it and we've also became millionaires in the process Millionaires, what's the house worth so about 550 ish? We also became millionaires in the process too. Woo! Baby steps millionaire. So what's the house worth? So about $550-ish to take and then just with other things.

Investments, everything. Yes. Retirement, cars. About $1.5 almost. Yeah, $1.5. Oh my goodness. We are on a roll to retire with some money maybe. So proud of you guys.

Get to go so many races, right? Mass car races. He can't. I. Get to go so many races, right? NASCAR races. He can't. He has all the beach. I might have to work a couple more years. I know. Yeah.

That's incredible you guys, absolutely amazing. Thank you, thank you. We are excited. What do you tell people the key is, if there was one thing that you need to become debt free? Go ahead, hon, I know. You're eager. There was a SNL skit,

and it was don't spend the money unless you have it. Yes, with Z Martin and Amy Poehler. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. If I don't have it, can I, no. So just live on less than you make. Absolutely. Don't go into debt to buy stuff. That's right.

And you're gonna be okay. You'll be okay. I love it. Isn't that funny? It's the satire of America though, right? That skit of like, if I have the money, can I buy it? Like, yes, if I don't have the money, can I still get it? No, you can't, yeah, it is. It's only one page. Only one page. If you if I have the money, can I buy it? Like yes, if I don't have the money, can I still get it?

No, you can't, yeah, it is. It's only one page. Only one page, if you don't have the money, don't buy it. And so living that mantra. I would read that book. There you go, yeah, that mantra. Sign me up for that one. Oh my gosh, and you guys, I mean, this is really,

when we talk about changing your family tree, this is the big one. I mean, Baby Step 7 is where you really see it without a house payment, starting to set you guys up well for the future and your kids. You guys have two, we met them earlier in another break, two beautiful girls. So bring them up.

Come on, girls. What's the names and ages? Come on up, stand on either side. We have Izzy, who is, how old? You're 11. All right, then we have Avery, who is eight. Eight. Eight. Yes.

I'm sure they were very helpful along the way, keeping you guys motivated, accountable, where they were like, hey mom, we're not going through the drive-through, mom, we gotta pay this house off. I know, I know, I was like, sorry, sorry, no Chick-fil-A today. There was a lot of, they know Dave Ramsey

probably just as good as most people. Oh, I love it, I love it. That bodes well for their financial future. And this was a big thing for them too. You guys have beautiful, beautiful family. Thank you. Well done, you guys, well done. Have they been practicing the debt free screen?

I think so, yeah. Oh yeah, a couple of times. We're about to find out. My ears tell me they were. We've got a parting gift for you guys. We have two one-year subscriptions to EveryDollar Premiums, so you can use those or pass them along to someone else who you want to encourage on the journey.

And let's get to it. It's Jock and Jennifer from Cincinnati, Ohio with Izzy and Avery. $203,000 paid off, mortgage and everything. Complete weirdos in 52 months, making 160 all the way up to 250. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Okay. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Woo! Woo! Woo! Oh, we got a dance. We got a celebratory debt free dance. As she should. That was special.

As she should. Oh, incredible. Absolutely incredible. I don't know, something about the kids that gets me every time, Rachel, when they join in. I know. I mean, it's just wild. You know, we had a call that we're like, oh, should we pay cash for our house?

We have the money, but we kind of just want to take it out because of the interest rates. And people just talk around this stuff. And when you do it, I bet you anything, they don't want to go back into debt, right? I mean, it's like, once you do it, you taste that freedom and autonomy. Once you get the weight off you, no one's going,

hey, I'd love to get that backpack full of bricks in it. Bring that back over. And they're free, absolutely free. I love it. And Baby Steps Millionaires in the process. Look at that. Incredible. Intentionality, focus, it's what it takes.

Discipline, live on lesson you make. You heard it here, it's so simple and yet very few people actually do it. But they did it, we're so proud of you guys. This is The Ramsey Show. ["The Ramsey Show Theme"] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. You know, a lot of what we teach, Rachel, is about getting your income up. We say your greatest wealth building tool is your income.

And a lot of people go, okay, well, that's nice, but how do I just go make more without asking my boss for a raise and making it awkward? Well, there's this thing called side hustles and there's a gig economy out there now where you can just download an app and get out there and start making money tonight. And so what I did was create a side hustle quiz with our team that can help people figure out based on your time and your target

of what you're trying to do, how much money you're trying to make and your talent, we can actually serve up some side hustle options for you to make it easier. Yeah, which are actually gonna be great at and enjoy, right? Yes. Because sometimes you do a side hustle and it's kind of miserable. You're doing it just to make some extra money Yeah, which you're actually gonna be great at and enjoy, right? Yes. Because sometimes you do a side hustle and it's kind of miserable,

you're doing it just to make some extra money to pay off the debt. And there's a reason for it. But if you can enjoy it in the process, how much better is that? Exactly. So I took it, George. You took the quiz.

I heard George had a quiz and I said, I'm gonna be a good friend and I am gonna- What a friend you are. I'm gonna go through this quiz. It gave me like when I was a teen, we'd have like 17 magazine and they'd always have quizzes in the back. I love a good quiz.

You know what I mean? Tiger Beat? Yeah, it was just like, you know, what kind of dream man do you like or whatever, right? Or like, what's your, I don't know. It would be all these like teen type quizzes. So gave that energy, George. A little bit more professional.

Thank you. Yeah, Tiger Beat but with a little bit more professional. Thank you. Yeah, Tiger beat but with a master's degree. That's what the side hustle quiz is. All right, let's, I have your results on the screen. So walk us through this, Rachel. Okay, so my best side hustles, are you ready for this? Well, what is your, we have like personality archetypes. So what is yours called?

In-person side hustles. Nope, further up. Oh, oh, ooh, professional. Nope, is that you? You're the- RC? Oh. Did we switch it, limited edition? Maybe.

Now I don't know, James. I guess they're accurate, right? Yeah. No, this is mine. I guess Rachel's the professional. No, this is mine. I was shocked as well. I am a professional.

Your question. Okay, so I have it up on the screen. No, this was mine. Follow along if you're watching on YouTube or the Ranging Network app or Spotify, you can see this. So you got some options. What are your in-person side hustle options as the professional?

Okay, is consulting. So this is using your skills. That's why we call it the professional. Yes. You're refining skills. So business consulting, career coaching, financial coaching, investment, counseling. That sounds right, huh?

Nannying, and I'm a mom of three. Sounds right, I'd be a great nanny. Event planning. You would do great with that. Y'all, this is literally my, this is my world. Bar mitzvahs, quinceaneras, you would crush. Yes, working part-time, exploring a new career path. So just in general. Nice.

Okay, and then my at-home side hustles would be teaching English. Okay. I know English well. And just in general. Nice. Okay. And then my at home side hustles would be teaching English. Okay. I know English well and then freelancing. So just finding something that I can do, but this was great. And I am a professional George. What are you? Are you a professional? No, you're not.

No, I didn't. What I got was the limited edition. Which means what? Well, it's because I'm busy, Rachel. I don't have a lot of time throughout the week. Oh, I put, I had more time to do my side hustles than you. As the dad of a toddler and one on the way, it's just a lot, you know? Wow.

So I said, I don't have a lot of time. What can I do based on my skills? And here's what it spit out, in-person side hustles, indoor and outdoor home maintenance and repair. Stop it. You know me. Stop it. That's what I do best. This is a good quiz, George.

Why do you feel like this quiz is failing America? Honestly, if it was home organizing, I could crush with my OCD. But repairs, why do they give you repairs? I think it's just something you can look into. If you, you know, these are just options. It's not saying this is- Yeah, it's just flipping a breaker.

Yeah. You know, that's George isn't even great at that. But you know what a great one that showed up was photography. That was my past life in media world, film, photo. I used to do, you know, do wedding videography. And so that's a good one. And skateboard videos. That's right. And then at home side hust life, media world, film, photo. I used to do wedding videography. And so that's a good one. And skateboard videos.

That's right. And then at home side hustles, freelancing, which is something I actually did as a side hustle for a long time. Building websites, taking the skills I have, branding, whatever it may be, tutoring, and then transcribing, which I'm a great typist, as you know. Oh, a transcriber.

So I could sign up for a website where I can transcribe videos and just type out what they're saying. Love it. So there you go. Just some options. And if you guys want to take this at home, it's completely free.

Jump onto ramsysolutions.com slash side hustle. Take the quiz. We'll also link it in the description and show notes wherever you're listening. But here's the goal. Find out the things that you can do to make extra money and then add up what you could make per week, what that does per month, what that does per year.

And this might be for a season while you get out of debt or get the emergency fund in place. I'm not advocating for you to have a side hustle for your whole life. But for a season, do what it takes to get to a place financially where you're stable, you have some foundation so that you can build wealth for the future.

It's good. I'm so distracted because Transcriber, are you a Friends fan? You're Seinfeld. Yeah, I mean, I know of good. I'm so distracted because transcriber, are you a friends fan? You're Seinfeld. Yeah, I mean, I know of friends. I haven't seen every episode. When they played the game, boys against girls, and one of the questions was,

what is Chandler being due for a living? And they couldn't remember. And Rachel was like, he's a trans, he's a trans, and I think, I thought she said he's a transcriber, but it wasn't because like, that's not even a word. Transcriptionist maybe? No. Okay. I'll find it. But anyways. Someone will let us know. When you said transcriber, but it wasn't because like, that's not even a word. Transcriptionist maybe? No. Okay. I'll find it.

But anyways, when you said transcriber, I just went and played that entire friends episode through my head as you were talking. I could tell you were in another world. I was like, what was that answer that Rachel gave? I'm hearing transponster. Transponster, transponster. A transponster.

And then Monica's like, that's not even a word. If you guys ever wanted to know what it's like being inside the mind of Rachel Cruz, that summed it up right there. Me saying one word and her completely going somewhere else in her mind for the next three minutes. You're doing great though. Send the people to your quiz.

Send the people to the quiz. Go check it out. No, but it is great. It is awesome, George. Well done. Thank you. And I'm a professional. So professional. All right, Brian is up next in Annapolis, Maryland.

What's going on, Brian? How can we help today? Hello, how are you guys doing today? Doing well. Is that Rachel Cruz on there as well? That's her. Hello. In living colors. The Rachel Cruz? Get out. The professional Rachel Cruz. Possibly the event planner Rachel Cruz, but that is me. Yes, Brian, how can we help today? I got a little sidetracked with the side hustle. I had my question prepared, but

the side hustle Ramsey quiz, is that a thing? Like, is that somewhere I can go? Go to ramsesolutions.com slash side hustle and it'll take you right there. Okay, thank you so much. I appreciate that. People are gonna think that this was a planned call for you to talk about this.

I promise it wasn't. Do you have a real financial question for us? Yes, I'm so sorry. No, you're great. I just wanna make, we're running out of time, so. My mom at age 80 has no retirement. I am her dedicated financial person. Dementia comes and goes.

Luckily, yeah, thank you. Luckily, she came into a small windfall of money. It was 20 grand. It's now down to 12, and that's why I'm helping. So the question is what investment vehicles are left at her age? What does an 80 year old person do? I've heard CDs, I've heard money markets,

and I'm like, okay, well, you guys. Does she have an income right now? Yes, sir. How much does she bring in every month? $3,144. Okay. And what are her bills every month? Okay, so her bills, she has a single. Just total, what is the total for a month?

Is it less than $3,100? Yes, it is. Okay. How much is left over? $700. So essentially she has $ bucks a month to invest. From her income. Yeah.

That's 12,000 sitting there. I would just park all of that in a high yield savings account. High yield savings account. She doesn't need to be investing with that money. She needs that money to protect her in case of emergencies. Yeah. What's her housing situation, Brian? Is she renting? Does she own? She just got out of a bad situation with my brother.

He's in jail. We'll leave it there. Oh gosh, I'm sorry. My sister and I got her in a 55 and over retirement community. She has a single bedroom apartment. Okay. She's renting?

And now life is good. Yes, sir. Okay, what's her rent every month? Uh, 14. Okay. So, yeah. And what is she doing for a job? What is she with the dementia kind of going in and out? What's her job? There is no job. Oh, it's social security? All of it? Yes, ma'am. Okay, I gotcha. Yes, ma'am.

So it's half social and half VA benefits. Okay. My dad was a Marine. Oh, wow. Okay, okay. And what's her health, Brian? I mean, I know with dementia it can vary, but do you guys, do you think she has another 10 years or do you think she's not doing well?

We're on a 10 year plan. My sister and I are. So I heard Dave Ramsey say, if you make it to 64, you have a good chance of making it to 90. Is that something close there about? Yep, yep, yep, exactly. So we're just like, okay,

she's gonna make it to 90, 95. And are you and your sister in a good place financially to help in the meantime if she needs it? I'm on baby step two. She is sort of on baby steps one. Okay, we're gonna say no on that one. But I would just stack that cash in the high yield savings and even that 700 a month,

just keep adding it to the high yield savings. I don't think I'd worry about investing for the next 30 years right now. Just let's just try to survive and get a nice cushion. This is the Ramsey Show. From the Ramsey Network, This is the Ramsey show From the Ramsey Network This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm here with my co-host Rachel Cruz

I'm George Campbell if you want to hear more of us for any reason check out smart money happy hour also on the Ramsey Network And wherever you enjoy your show as We co-host that as well. The number to call is 888-825-5225. If you want to jump in with your question about life and money, Brock is going to kick us off in New York, New York. What's going on Brock? How can we help? Hey guys, how are you guys doing?

Great. What's your question? So I'm 15 and I'm going to get a job over the summer and probably through my sophomore year high school. Mike, what I want to do with the money is I want to put into a custodial Roth IRA because if you put in the money now, you don't really have any expenses when you're my age. But my parents are in a lot of credit card debt and I feel like I owe it to them to help them to pay it off.

So my question is, what do I do with my money that I'm about to earn? Wow. Well, you are a very astute 15 year old, man. You're talking about custodial Roth IRAs over here. I thought I was gonna say when you say the word even custodial. What happened to video games, Rachel?

That's what the kids used to, no, I'm proud of you, man. So are you, have you dove into finances because you saw your parents struggle with it and you went, I never want that to happen to me. Yeah, that's basically it, yeah. Wow. And have they talked to you about it, Brock? How much of this is you observing them

or them being like, hey, as a family, this is where we're at and mom and dad are gonna get out of credit card debt because we're in it. How open are they about their situation with you? They're pretty open. I mean, um when I look at it, they're always really complaining about their credit card debt They do have a mortgage, but they they say to me that their mortgage is pretty under control The credit card debt's the main issue and they've always been pretty transparent

Part of it has been me. I've researched about the investing and all that stuff, but with the debt and their situation, they've been pretty open with us. Are they working their way out of debt? Are they like on a plan that they're changing what they're doing or is it kind of just the same old thing and you are the one that's kind of changing? They are doing the baby steps. I would not be surprised if they're listening to this show right now. Do they know you're calling in? I told them about maybe you wanna call in, so yeah.

Brock, that's awesome. So how much credit card debt are they in? Do you know the exact number? I don't know the exact number, but if I had to guess, it would be around 10 to 15,000. Okay. Okay, that's great. Well, I'll tell you, Brock, no, this credit card debt is not your problem. This is that's great. Well, I'll tell you, Brock, no, this is not, this credit card debt is not your problem.

This is not your responsibility. You're a 15 year old and your job, if you earn any extra money, in my opinion, goes to Brock. Your parents have created, you know, some credit card debt, but they can create a plan to get out. I do not think that is your responsibility by any means. So I would just put it in the custodial Roth IRA or the other two things I would kind of challenge you on

a little bit is you live in, I don't know what part of New Yorker, if you're in the city, but a car at some point is gonna be great to have. And then for college or what are your plans after graduation? Yeah, my plans after graduation are to go to college. I'm not 100% sure on a graduate degree yet.

Okay. But yes, my plan is to go to college. Okay. So personally, Brock, I would invest in Brock and not into a custodial Roth because the next, let's call it eight years of your life are going to get very expensive. And what happens is you go,

well, I have this money invested, but I have no money for college. I guess I'll take out 150,000 in student loan debt because my parents are broke, they can't help save. And so I don't want this to be a surprise. At this age with your work ethic and your knowledge of finances, you can definitely go to school debt free.

And if you get a bunch of scholarships and you have money left over, great, we have a big pile of money to start investing. But I don't think you need to start now. I would start building up for your foreseeable future. You're gonna have plenty of time to build wealth. Yeah, so I think that's, you know, people, we have a chart, I think it's Blake and Jack,

and it shows if you start investing, I think it's at, is it 18? I think one just started a lot sooner. Yeah, so, but it's basically this age. So then people take that chart literally and they're like, okay, if I start investing literally $2,000 at 18, all the way up, this is what I'll have. And so the chart is not a,

it's not supposed to be a literal roadmap to do this because in this case, for instance, there's still college. There's still things that you wanna put your money towards, but it just shows an example of this is what happens with compound interest. So that principle of compound interest to George's point, Brock, can still apply to you at 15, as it will at 21. And by the time you cash out a Roth IRA at 59 and a half, you're going to be fine, right? Like, I mean, the difference would be, oh my gosh, I might have to go into debt for college and that's gonna put me back a few years because I have to pay off this debt.

So we would rather you cashflow your life moving forward. And then once you're out of college, Brock. Working full time. Working full time, you kind of have some stability. And if this money you're saving now wasn't used for college and after moving expenses and all the things, you could take a chunk of that money and invest it then, you know, at 21, 22 years old.

But for now on, I would probably just do a high yield savings account and be putting all your money in there. That makes perfect sense. Thank you guys so much. Yeah, thanks, Brock. I love the spirit of this question. And one thing, Brock, you can do, and I would do,

is limit the expenses you add onto the pile. And that is something that is in your control. So if there's something you wanna do or buy, maybe just go, hey, I'm gonna work for it and just pay for it myself. I know my parents are on this journey. And that's your way of contributing in a sense. So instead of going, hey, I need 500 bucks for this trip,

or I need 100 bucks to get clothes for school. Man, if you're able and willing to work and you can cashflow at all, that's really gonna help them speed up their own debt-free journey. But I love your heart to help them. And the fact that they're open and honest about where they're at financially.

Yeah, I mean, that's what I love. I'm like, man, these parents are talking about it. I mean, to the point that he's like, woo, maybe I can help, you know, which is a great spirit to have. But yeah, at 15, I think you're good. Yeah, we've talked about age-appropriate money conversations.

And you talk about this a lot in your book, Smart Money, Smart Kids, about, okay, what is the right time to introduce things to the kids? And how do you, I mean, I bet even the last 10 years, you've changed your mind about what is the right time for parents to talk to their kids and how much information do they share? What is your current thoughts on that?

Yeah, the dollar amount. I mean, I think at 15, Brock's example, I think is great. I mean, I would be comfortable sharing, like, here's how much debt we have to a teenager, because if you think about it in just three years, two and a half years, he's going to be out on his own anyway. So it's like, yeah, to bring them in, because his parents are working a plan. So yes, they're complaining about it, but yet they're doing something about it, which I think is, is key for him to see that example. And then, yeah, I mean, some people,

I hear households, which I kind of, I, I mean, some people, I hear households, which I kinda, I think I like, and I think we probably will start doing it with the girls as they get older, is to show exactly like, here's how much internet is, here's how much Netflix is, Disney Plus, here's all of our expenses added up per month, and that's how much our life costs.

And it's not a burden on them, right? You're not doing it to like shame them of like, oh my gosh, how much it costs to like have a family. But it's like, hey, here's the reality. But they need to know that as teenagers, the reality of how much it is for a light bill, right? So that some people debate with the income idea of how much, if you tell your kids.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. That feels a dicier. I probably wouldn't do that until they're older, maybe out of college or something, I don't know. I just wonder if it creates an unhealthy bar that is set by the parents, whether they don't make a lot or they make an astounding amount

for the kids to be like, okay, well, that's what I need to, if I can get there, I'm doing as well as my parents. Okay. You know? Like a competitive thing almost? Almost competitive, but almost like a- I think that's a dude thing. Did I make it?

I don't think I'd ever think about that. Let's say you find out your dad makes $100,000. Well, now the bar is if I can make $100,000, I'll be doing as well as dad. My dad, yeah. He'll be proud of me. Okay, man, you just went to a therapy session, George. I think that's why guys buy trucks.

There it is. I think we've come full circle. I'm just saying. It's an interesting conversation. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Oh my gosh. But I think healthy communication is at the heart of it. Yes, healthy communication, I think, is great. And what is your motive my gosh. But I think healthy communication is at the heart of it. Yes, healthy communication I think is great.

And what is your motive for sharing? And how healthy and emotionally mature are the kids? Yes, yes. And if you're a person of faith, I do think that extra level of like this idea of managing and stewarding what God's given you versus it's all ours too, takes a different approach, which I like. Beautifully said. This is The Ramsey Show. Beautifully said. This is The Ramsay Show. Welcome back to The Ramsay Show. I'm here with Rachel Cruz and a special guest you may not recognize because he's

incognito with a hat on today. This is Mr. Ken Coleman, fellow Ramsay personality. Look at that. We needed to phone a friend. Yeah. When he was in the booth and we were like, Ken, come do a segment with us. Work a little, Ken. I know. You know, pull your weight. Rachel just pulled me from the bullpen. She's like, let's get the righty in.

I said, come on. And so hat today, because honestly today's like a real meeting day for me. I wasn't planning to be on the air, but you look great. Getting outside my comfort zone with a hat. I love it. I love it. Not everyone can pull off a hat, Ken, and you can. I think that's absolutely right. You give Little League coach vibes, and I mean that in I love it. Not everyone can pull off a hat, Ken, and you can. I think that's absolutely right.

You give Little League coach vibes, and I mean that in the best way. Really? Yeah, I'd want him coaching my kids Little League. You would, actually. That's all I'm saying. Because I'll tell you why. They're going to get the fundamentals, number one,

and number two, they're going to feel positive about it. They're going to feel good. They're going to get a lot of encouragement. Yeah, they're not yelling, none of that. But you're going to learn how to play the game. Well, let's see how good you are as a coach, Ken. We're gonna talk to Eric from Dallas and see if we can help.

What's going on, Eric? Hey everyone, how you doing? Good. You got three of us here, so if we can't solve this, America has no hope. That's true. I feel lucky. All right, so I'll cut straight to the point.

Yeah, so I'm Eric. My wife and I, we live in Texas. We actually moved here during the height of the pandemic. Both of our roles for our jobs work for the same company was deemed remote and we moved here. We had two littles. Our family was expanding. It just made sense for us to move from Connecticut to Texas. And now our company is looking for us to be back into the office. They've offered me to move back to Connecticut. They've offered relocation, and we are considering living with our in-laws who just retired in order to save some money and purchase a home cash when the time is right. So I just wanted your opinion on that.

How long? How long have we been in Texas? No, how long would you live with the parents? So we're thinking two years, two, no more than three years. But you're saying you could save up enough cash in two years to pay for that home with no mortgage? I believe so. And the in-laws are in Connecticut? Yes, they are.

That you're moving back to. Okay. Do you like them? Oh, we love them. My mother-in-law is actually here right now in Texas and my father-in-law is hiking the Appalachian Trail. Wow. He just retired last month.

That's a cool father-in-law. That's pretty awesome. And you guys want to be back in Connecticut too? We love Texas. However, our jobs has been really good to us and we don't want to sacrifice our careers. We've both been with the company since we actually met as interns and we've been with the company for the last 11 years.

Totally. Okay. I just, so, but your quality of life, kids, school, everything will still be good. You will enjoy life in Connecticut, correct? I can't speak for my wife, but yes, I think, I think we would enjoy life for the most part. I saw a video on Instagram, it just popped up like yesterday

and I saved it, so that was interesting. And it was the top five states people move out of the fastest. And I hate to say five states people move out of the fastest. And I hate to say it, Eric, Connecticut was number two. Oh yeah. New Jersey was number one. California was number three. Taxes, taxes, taxes.

Well, actually Tennessee was the happiest place of satisfaction. No income tax. That's right. But Texas was the same. So I was just pushing that you weren't moving because you felt obligated to this job and your whole quality of life is gonna change.

Right, I was just double checking that you're good, but you're gonna be happy in Connecticut. So quality of life is good. What about the financial picture? Are you guys gonna be making more based on all the margin or less? Yes, yeah. So with moving to Connecticut,

there is a promise of a promotion. For myself, my wife's job is a little bit more flexible. She can kind of work anywhere. I think as we transition back, we're going to have to figure out how our finances will kind of work. Not having right now we own our home in Texas. So without having a home to own or pay a mortgage and childcare, obviously we'd be able to save a lot. So we'll have to do the math on on what that will equate to month over month. And then obviously see housing, we can move into our own place. Okay, quick couple quick questions on the money stuff. Okay. So how much is your house worth in Texas? How much will you walk away with if you sell it? So right now with the market,

we would break even. Our home is worth about 380 and,000 and we would sell for about $380,000. So no equity. Okay, so what would be the difference if we don't live with mom and dad in Connecticut? How much longer are you projecting it would take to save up the money to buy a home there if you didn't live with them? Yeah, combined my wife and I make $335,000 a year. I'm thinking it should take no more than three years for us to put at least put down a huge down payment if not pay cash for the type of home that we want.

So 12 months difference two years if you live with your in-laws three years if you don't. Correct. I wouldn't live with them then that's only 12 months. I just I just think. I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question. If we stayed in Texas, if we stayed in Texas and we play and we paid a mortgage, um, that we're paying right now, um, it would take us, I mean, we would have to, we wouldn't be able to save nearly as much money as we could if we stayed with

our in-laws. So we haven't done the math yet. What would it cost to rent in Connecticut? I think is what Ken was asking. Yeah, Connecticut, depending, we've seen rent anywhere between $1,700 to $3,000 a month. Yeah, okay. So even top end, that's 36 grand a year is what you'd be losing by renting, compared to living with the in-laws, plus utilities and all that stuff. Correct. Correct. Okay, so it slows you down by about 30 grand in order to rent, but I think your quality of life,

I think that's what Ken was getting at, I think your quality of life would be better if you guys had your own place, even if it slowed down your home, or just pick up a 15 year mortgage and knock it out in two years. Well, or do, and yeah, you could do that for sure. And Eric, would you guys have,

what would the housing situation be if you did live with the in-laws? Do they have like an in-law suite kind of thing that it's like your own entry and all of that? Or would you guys be like so co-mingled? Yeah, no, that's a great question. Yeah, they've redone their entire basement. So we'll pretty much have our own space.

Okay. I don't know y'all. That's why I was asking all the questions, Eric. I'm trying to go, there's a trade-off. Saving money, that's great. But there's also a trade-off in every other area. There is, but the only reason I would say that I would be okay with this situation

is they have a plan. Yeah, that's true. They know their numbers. They have an amazing income. You know, cause we do talk, Eric, to, not to stereotype, but we talk to 25 year olds. Like, well, I'm at my, I live with my parents because I'm saving money.

And we're like, okay, what are you saving money for? I don't know. Well, how much are you saving? I don't know. And you're like, you're just living there, right? Like there's not, there's not an intentional plan, but this feels intentional. You enjoy them, which I think is big,

and you're the in-law, Eric, right? So I think that's, that's a plus. Yeah. And you guys are debt-free? And for two years. We have a right or wrong on this one. I have no problem with it. Yeah you guys are debt free? And for two years. There's no right or wrong on this one. I have no problem with it. Yeah, there's not a right or wrong.

I'm just thinking emotionally and relationally is the only thing that I'm walking you through and see what the trade-off is, because let's just say it gets a little uncomfortable a year in. The reason I was asking the questions I was asking is I think you've got to get those answers upfront to go, I'm doing this for a reason,

my attitude's gonna be good no matter what happens. Well, you know what? And that's a great, I've talked to your wife and you guys have like, like if, if Winston and I are at a party and we like, one of us needs to go. Do you have a word? It's like the mistletoe word at that. A secret?

What's the movie? Four Christmases. Four Christmases. Mistletoe, we got to get out of here. Winston and I have that totally. So maybe with your wife, you have the rip cord pull, like we're done. I can't do this anymore.

And she has that with you. Maybe she gets tired of the parents and she starts to feel tension. She's like, we gotta go rent. Like you guys need an out and you both need to be okay if you decide that we need an out out of the situation too from a relational standpoint. Yeah, yeah.

And I think we just wanted a sanity check. I mean, honestly, we do have enough money for a down payment today if we wanted to move to Connecticut, but... How much do you have? I feel like we have over 150 saved. Wow. Can I jump in real super fast here? You said if I take the job in Connecticut, there's a promise of a promotion. Is there any way to get the promotion before we move? No, it's kind of contingent.

But it's a done deal. As soon as you move. As soon as you move. It's not like, well, we'll talk six months later? No, yeah, it's as soon as I move. Okay. And how big of a bump is that? It should be about 10% bump. Okay.

What say you, George? I'm nervous about it relationally. You guys buying the house? I would rent to give myself some peace of mind. And personally, you got 150 grand. I might just live with them for six months as we search for a home to buy and then just pay it off quick.

That feels like the best of both worlds. Rachel. I'm kind of feeling that. I'm feeling George's. It gives you the most flexibility. You guys have an amazing income. The house is getting knocked off quick. You don't need to save up and pay cash. And let grandparents be grandparents

and not the roommate situation. I like it. I'm with you, George. All right. And you, Rachel. And we can do visitation instead of slumber parties. We have consensus here. Consensus. I think we did. Gosh, put us in Congress, Ken. We could get some stuff done.

Supreme Court could use us. Big shout out to Ken Coleman for joining us this segment. He made all the difference. This is The Ramsay Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Rachel Cruz and Ken Coleman. We begged him to stay for one more segment. So I can't get out of here.

Can't get out of here. Later, before we get to another call, hey, buying or selling your home, it's a big deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsey Trusted program is the way to find a top agent you can trust who will make this easy. So find a local Ramsey Trusted real estate pro for free, ramseysolutions.com slash agent, or click the link in the description.

Nathaniel's up next in Lexington, Kentucky. What's going on Nathaniel? Hi there. So I just got a pretty significant raise at my job and I was made aware that a dream car I've always wanted to buy is getting discontinued this year and I was just curious if it makes financial sense for me to buy the car or truck it all into savings like I've been doing. Wow I hope it's a truck. George is gonna be a big

fan of that. What are they discontinuing these days? It's a it's a golf GTI Volkswagen Golf but they're stopping making it in a manual transmission. Pull one up, George. Is that it? Yeah, you've seen them. Give me an image. Is it like the hatchback? I thought I was the only one that actually knew what it was. Oh.

I know Rachel does it. Yeah, there's sporty hatchbacks. Oh, look at that. Very European. Is it like souped up? What's this thing going to cost you? It'll be right in the neighborhood of probably after taxes and title and fees and everything, probably about 35 to $36,000. All right, how much do you make a year, Nathaniel?

I make about $125,000 a year. What kind of debt do you have? I have no debt. I rent and I own my car outright and I have about 15,000 in savings. Amazing. What is your car worth that you own outright? Probably $13,000 to $15,000.

Okay, so half of it. So you basically have almost all this ready to go. Yeah, I would be getting a loan. I want to buy a house here pretty soon. And so I'd be getting a loan on the car to build my credit. I'm 18, so my credit score is... We were doing so well, Nathaniel.

Now George is breaking out in a rash. Oh man, George breathes. Just have another deep breath, George. Just calm down. Alright, explain to him why he doesn't need... Just meditate on the present where you are. Are you new to the show, Nathaniel? That helps me understand where you're coming from. I've been listening to the show for a couple years. That's why I'm actually calling in is just because I can completely easily afford this car. I'd be looking to probably pay it off in about four months.

You can't easily afford the car if you have to go into debt for it. That is true. I would just, it's something that I'm looking at is I've had a lifelong dream of this. Dude, you've been alive for four days. What do you mean lifelong? George. How old are you? George. I am 18 and...

Get him the credit of who he is. Well, his life is a lot shorter than ours. But yes, it's been lifelong. You know, if you were 68 and you're like, I just, this has been my lifelong dream. I'd be like, okay, 18, you haven't been able to drive. Well, while we're piling on, if I might, can I be the dad in this? Cause Nathaniel, I'm old enough to be your dad.

I was just so proud of Nathaniel. I would get a different dream. I don't think this car is worthy of a dream. And at this stage, You thought I was bad. No, no, there's a guy, the guy in the audience is with me. Old at this stage, I don't know. You thought I was bad. No, no, there's a guy, the guy in the audience is with me. Old guy's bald, he's gray, he gets it.

He gets it. Thank you, old dudes. Yeah, I mean, listen. All right, Rachel's a good cop. Give Nathaniel a break. No, no, it's too much money at this stage of his life. It is, well Nathaniel, you don't have the cash for it.

You have $15,000. We consider that your fully funded emergency fund. So I would not take money out of that to buy a brand new car. We of that to buy a brand new car. We say not to buy a brand new car unless you have a million dollar net worth, which you do not have. So I would look at a used golf GT and-

GTI. GTI and- Yeah. And figure out how to cashflow a used version, which would be probably what, maybe 25,000? So you'd only need to save up 10,000 more for that. Would you agree, Nathaniel? Yeah, I mean, that would work.

Yeah, so- It's not the newer generation of it, the eighth generation here, is pretty rare in the manual. So it's relatively hard to find examples of the one that I would want used, which is the only reason I was looking at new. But yeah, let's see this, what you're saying is what I feel myself. Yes, yeah, you can't afford it. You can't do it. I do make quite a bit, but I also just, I hate ever spending money on anything. So this car is gonna be around in two or three years. Someone's gonna I do make quite a bit, but I also just, I hate ever spending money on anything, so.

This car's gonna be around in two or three years. Someone's gonna get rid of it. It's not a dream for somebody else. And it's not gonna be more, it's not like a vintage vehicle that's going to be, oh, these are 50 grand now to get one. Yeah, so I think to just listening to kind of what you've been saying, Nathaniel,

and if you can take this advice from a bunch of old people who, to Georgia's point of view, married. I'm sorry. Double the life of you, is that whenever you pin yourself in a corner and you're like, this is the only option, that's true with a job.

That's true with the house. That's true with the car where it's like, this is it, this is it. If I don't get this, it's done. If I don't get this, it's done. And that's just not true. And you make really bad decisions. We have people call the show Nathaniel for houses. Like we found the dream house and this is it. And that's just not true. And you make really bad decisions. We have people call the show, Nathaniel, for houses.

Like, we found the dream house and this is it. And we have to do it, but it's half of our annual income, you know, for the mortgage every month. And we're like, okay, it's not it. You pin yourself in a corner with that. So, I love the dream. I do too. And can I also say I love that he wants to buy

a manual transmission car at 18? Yeah. That's a big deal. That's great. So, keep the dream alive, Nathaniel. You need to buy a used transmission car at 18. Yeah. That's a big deal. That's great. So keep the dream alive, Nathaniel. You need to buy a used one here in probably three years when someone's selling it and you need to pay cash for it. So those were our two no-go's.

No brand new car for Nathaniel because you're not a multi-millionaire. Do they have like a 2021 model, Nathaniel? They do. I'm a little particular. It's just the one specific model that I'm looking at. They don't make too many of. What years did they make them? They didn't make it the last one.

It's just 2024 is the one that has the option of what I want. It's basically what it is, is I've had a lot of Volkswagen's in my life I used to have my own business repairing them and I I'm a classic performance model and this is yeah, I have I still I currently have I don't consider it an asset because I'm never ever gonna sell it But I have in 1976 Volkswagen's scirocco that I completely restored and it's perfect and immaculate.

Nathan, I have a 1972 convertible Carmen Ghia that I'm restoring right now. That is wonderful. I had a couple of Carmen Ghias and they're beautiful, wonderful cars. Gorgeous cars, if I do say so myself. Love it. Can I ask what you do, Nathaniel? Because 18 years old making $125,000 is not normal. That's true. No, so I do technical support and cybersecurity for the banking industry.

So I work on ATMs and servers and networking for banks. Did you go to any kind of school for this? How'd you learn? I have a general associates degree that's just, I can't remember what the specific degree is. It's just whatever they had at the community college i went to but uh... no i have anything certifications and i'll have been doing this

uh... about a year i'm about to turn nineteen here and i got the job uh... shortly after i turned eighteen this is the american dreamer i think he's part of those i think he's one of the. I was gonna say, you were a little sassy with him. He might be hacking your account. Oh boy. The way you talk to him out of the gates. I'm never gonna financially recover from this.

And be a little nervous. I feel like a couple clicks and a move of a mouse and you're in big trouble. Nathaniel is actually in your bank account as we speak. George is wiped out. I'm actually nervous now. Well, here's the good news, Nathaniel. You have an incredible income, an incredible future.

I just want to change your language from I can afford meaning a payment to I can afford meaning in full in cash. And with your income, you're gonna be able to save up 50 grand a year if you keep on living less than you make. Yeah, I don't. I shop at Goodwill for food or for clothes. I have my workplace for most food.

And you don't need to do that. Don't do that. I'd like to see you step your game up in that area. Yeah, enjoy your life a for food or for clothes. I, my work is food. And you don't need to do that. Most food. Don't do that. I'd like to see you step your game up in that area. Yeah, enjoy your life a little bit for sure. So yes, enjoy. One thing is I don't really, I don't enjoy, a lot of my friends enjoy going out

and getting new clothes and getting other things. And that's not really what I enjoy. I like seeing the money I have in savings continue to go up. The reason that I don't have nearly as much in savings right now as I used to is because I used to flip cars as a side hustle when I was younger and I would put them in my parents name and recently my parents and I had a disagreement around my 18th birthday where they decided that they didn't, they didn't enjoy interacting with me anymore and they refused to give me possession of the cars that I had.

So you kind of lost a lot of your net worth right there. And yeah that was not that ideal. That's a tough tough lesson in a broken relationship. Well I'm proud of you. You're doing great. I pray for that to mend over everything for the rest of us. Yes. We have a long life to live and I hope that that changes course, so I'm sorry about that.

Thanks for the call, Nathanael. We're rooting for you, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 9, 8. And God is able to bless you abundantly so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. Vera Wang once said, when you have a passion for something, then you tend not only to be better at it, but you work harder at it too. Love that. That's good. That's why Rachel's good at spending. You work hard at it, you're good at it, you got a passion for it.

She's the best. Probably on Vera Wang. I have way more fun. There we go. On Vera, no, I don't have any Vera Wang. You know, she's a great story of someone that started, she didn't start designing wedding dresses until like maybe her 40s or something.

Wow, one of those like late start. I love those stories. All right, Rochelle is up next in Des Moines. What's awesome. Yeah. All right. Rachelle is up next in Des Moines. What's going on, Rachelle? Hi there. Did I say that right? You did.

Yes, that's correct. Okay. Crisis averted. How can we help? Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Hi there. I just had a quick question.

My husband and I own a painting business, and recently he has been offered to sell his business and become an employee of the business. Okay. I am kind of, we're both open to either however one of us leans one way and the other leans the other way. Um, he is pretty tired. Um, we've had it for eight years. Uh, and he's kind of wants to sell and I don't as much. Why don't you? Well, because we heard, we, we heard the deal basically. Um, because we heard the deal basically. Well, I'd hope so.

It's not as tantalizing to me. He would be offered a 10% profit share, which he wouldn't see though within the first year because they have to market our business or their business now, but but and hire people and all that stuff. So we really get that in addition to a $57,000 annual salary. We have people ahead that have signed contracts with us. So we have money that will be coming in and that totals about $46,000. And so I am having a hard time giving that up for a $57,000 salary, annual salary for that. What is the business being purchased for? What's the sale price here? Well, the sale price, I mean, he's basically taken all of our assets and he's

wants to buy it for $10,000. What? Now that is because, I mean, our business is very, very small. My husband has been the sole employee and owner. What does the business make a year? Well, this past year, we grossed about 114 or 115, and then we netted, I believe it was 65 or something like that. Okay. So why-

Because usually the sale of the business is- It'd be valued at like 3X of the revenue. So why is it valued at $10,000? I think he just took our tools basically and- Who's he? The guy that's gonna be buying it? Yes. Okay, well he can't do math.

That's not how you buy a business. That's not how you value a business. That's not how you value a business So no, I would not sell my business for 10 000 dollars and then have to be contracted as an employee and make less Yeah, that makes no sense. Where's the upside? That's a terrible deal. Why why is he even contemplating this? Uh, well, I think he's my husband is just tired He's a tired guy because he's not he's, my husband is just tired. He's just a tired guy, cause he's not, he's more of an applications person. And then go do something else.

Or hire other people to do the work if he doesn't wanna do it and keep running the business side. What's he tired of? Is he doing the physical painting? Wearing all the hats. Oh, yep, yep. He's a one man show, right?

He's extremely talented, yes, correct. We've had somebody, we've had people in and out trying to, you know, try them on, see if they work. It's just the risk factor makes them a little nervous of doing all the hiring and the investing of the time and training and all that stuff. Um, makes him a bit nervous as far as taking on the risk. But we're eight years in, we have kind of grown organically. We haven't done much marketing and yeah, it's exhausting because he's wearing all the hat.

How many hours is he working? Oh gosh, he, I mean, he works six days a week. We really try to keep Sundays off, but he has. What if he went and worked for a commercial type company as a painter, what would he be making a year? He could, I don't think he's as interested in that. He does wood refinishing. So like, like our sweet spot is like kitchen and cabinets

and stairwells and refinishing wood. Yeah, is there a high end builder that would hire him? I'm just curious what he can make out in the marketplace instead of having to do this all himself and having to work 70 hours a week making 65,000. Like that doesn't equate, right? Like could he go work 40 hours a week and make a hundred grand high-end, you know what I mean,

as a contractor with a high-end builder? Yeah, and I don't, I'm not sure what that number would be. We haven't looked fully into that option because we were just hoping that this business would grow and you know, we know a lot of people. Yeah, and it's been slower than you guys expected. Yeah, we know a lot of people. Yeah, and it's been slower than you guys expected. Yeah, we know a lot of people that, they quit, it's hard. Growing your own business isn't easy by any means.

And it's all a learning process. We have learned so much and there's still probably so much we need to learn. There is, and we're gonna help with that. I'm gonna send you Dave Ramsey's brand new book called Build a Business You Love, and it hits exactly this problem. I don't know how I got into this

because I'm good at a thing, but now what? And he would be the treadmill operator. He's just keeping up barely, and he needs to get to that next level. He's gotta get good at hiring. He's gotta get good at firing. He's gotta get good at all the leadership stuff, the business stuff,

or he needs to delegate it to someone who is good at it in order to keep this afloat. But I would not sell this. And I would say this too, you know, I mean, which I come from an entrepreneur, you know, dad. So that's how I grew up. So I love the idea of running your own thing and being your own boss.

But I will say this, Rochelle, you know, in a very humble way, there's some people that it's not worth it to them. And that's not a bad, that's not wrong. So it's almost like, I think I would rather go work for someone, get my insurance, make good money, work normal hours. Do just the thing you wanna do.

And I'm good and I'm happy. You know what I mean? So like owning a business is not equal happiness and it doesn't equal everybody needs to do it. Now it's an amazing option if you guys can figure out how to do it better and scale it so that he's not exhausted and working insane hours for eight years. That's not sustainable long-term.

You can't do that. You guys can't keep doing this. So. Are you working as well? No, I'm a stay at home mom. Okay. And what does the future look like? Are the kids at the spot where you could help out

with the business at this point? Well, yes. They are in elementary school. Yeah, I do the bookkeeping and you know, I run errands and stuff, you know, when I'm not able to move. I think it's bigger than that for you guys. I don't know like how, we're not sure how to market better. That's probably one thing that we are weak in. And yeah, we're not sure how to level up, if you will. Well, there's a lot of ways to do it. And part of that might be delegating and hiring

and getting people who know how to do marketing. Maybe you delegate the bookkeeping. Maybe you get a few more painters underneath him who can do a lot of the work so that he is focused 40 hours a week and it's sustainable and it's growing. If you can do all of that over the next six to 12 months, this thing can work.

And I'll say this too, this may be a little bit of a Pollyanna viewpoint, but what's crazy, Rochelle, is like, even from marketing today is so much easier than it was. Before you had to run ads in a paper, you had to get a billboard, it was all this stuff. Social media, doing some reels, getting stuff out there. I'm like, there's a-

And just word of mouth, you get in a Facebook group and just you become a painter who did a good job. I bet you guys can find some young kid, 25 year old, who's brilliant at social media and marketing and online marketing. And he could probably work 15 hours a week for you guys and get your business out there. You know what I mean? Like there's easy ways and avenues these days to get the word out.

You don't need to spend $50,000 on a billboard. Yeah, that's right. So I don't know. I'm hopeful that you guys can grow it if you want, but I would not, from what you gave us on this call, I would not take the current deal on the table. I think that's a bad move. Walk away. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you, build a business you love from Dave Ramsey. I hope it encourages you guys and equips you with some new knowledge and some hope that this thing can survive and it can even thrive and you can have a better life and breathe a little easier. That puts this Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.