The Ramsey Show - App - You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions

Starting point is 00:00:00 normal is broken common sense is weird so we're here to help you transform your life from the ramsay network and the fair wins credit union studio this is the ramsie show i'm dave ramsie your host dr john deloney host of the Dr. John Deloney show, one of our more popular properties on the Ramsey Network, number one best-selling author, Ramsey Personality, PhD and counseling, by the way, and after Thanksgiving, some of you probably need a little of that. Yeah, open phones here at AAA 825-5-225. I'm not saying your family's crazy. I'm just saying somebody in your family is crazy. Yeah, that's our standing joke around here.

Starting point is 00:00:54 If you think there's crazy in every family, and if you think there's not yours, that means it's you. So, yeah, welcome. to Thanksgiving, and here we go to Christmas, baby. Yeah, just keep it rolling. The hits, they keep on coming. Bonnie's in Las Vegas. Hey, Bonnie, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Starting point is 00:01:11 How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Amen. Well, we've been longstanding huge fans of years, and we just appreciate everything you do. And we have our 19-year-old. We adopted her when she was 16, and so we did the best

Starting point is 00:01:30 we could, you know, for the few years that we had where she was living under our roof, just teaching her, you know, how to, how to save money, just be wise, you know, with financial decisions. And ultimately, it just was not, you know, received well. And, you know, so I, my husband and I think are at, are at odds because, you know, one thing led to another and she just wasn't really making wise choices in any area and it just kind of was a better situation for her to leave the home, you know, because we have five little ones at our house as well that, you know, she was ultimately an example too as well. But she's, you know, living with another family member is safe and good, but she's in a situation now where, you know, she doesn't have car insurance

Starting point is 00:02:23 because she can't afford it. And so she's because she's not working. and now she's, you know, not working because she doesn't have a car to get to work. And so my mama heart wants to come in and, you know, kind of save her and help her out. You know, I don't necessarily know what that looks like, but, you know, my husband kind of says, well, she's kind of got to, you know, maybe hit rock bottom, hit, you know, a low so that, you know, she can kind of wake up a little bit. And, you know, she wants help, she can come and ask us. And I'm kind of like, well, maybe she doesn't know that she can, you know, that she can ask us for help. So we're kind of, you know, at odds there.

Starting point is 00:03:07 And I was just wondering if you had any suggestions. You guys have got big hearts and you're sweet people. And you're really trying to make up 16 years of mess in just three years. Yeah. And you did not get to enter into the development stage. of her child development. You didn't get to lay any groundwork there. So basically you're taking a quasi adult at 16 and trying to fill her up with 16 years worth of stuff she didn't get before and it didn't work. Right? Yeah. So this is a lot bigger than car insurance for her, isn't it? Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I hear the pain in your voice. I'm sorry. But the... Yeah, thank you. Yeah. So I'll let John pick it up, but the thing I run into with the money piece is the nicest people on the planet, and you're one of them, have, and the one day a year that I'm the nicest person, and the other, I'm not. But that one day I am, I can fall into the same bucket. We become enablers.

Starting point is 00:04:16 Right. Right. And we say things like Mama's heart. It's not Mama's heart. So what I want you to do is I want you to define the word help To be not something that temporarily takes away her pain But something that helps her be a better 30-year-old Yeah And this and you just caving and running over And throwing money on her While she's misbehaving, rebelling

Starting point is 00:04:39 And doing a whole bunch of other stuff She shouldn't be doing for her own sake It's not really help is it It's giving a drunk a drink Yeah So John Yeah it's been my experience working with teenagers and young adults who were adopted, especially late, that I don't think this is a conscious thing at all, but there's always going to be a push to see, are you going to leave me to?

Starting point is 00:05:07 And it's a recurring limit to how far can I push you? How far can I stretch these boundaries, stretch this rope you're giving me so I can prove to myself that it's me that's me that's the problem. problem. And so the challenge for you is how do you constantly stay in communication to this young person that you adopted and let them know I will never leave you and that's different than I'm going to always give you whatever you want whenever you want it? Sure. And where I've seen families be successful is it's a little bitty things like a recurring breakfast together. it's a anytime i'm going to call you once a week i'm going to call you twice a week we're going to meet at the local waffle house there in Vegas once a week on tuesday mornings i'm going to be there at

Starting point is 00:06:01 seven o'clock in the morning or i'll be in front of your house to pick you up because you don't have a car um i want to see you and i'm going to continue to not just talk but i'm going to do these small steps to prove to you that i'm in this for the long haul i'll be your cheerleader and your coach I won't be your bank I'll be your number one fan but I'm not your bank that's right and like Dave said we're aiming here for a 30 year old that believes in themselves not a happy 19 year old those those are two very different things right and there's that means you're going to have to weather a storm and you've weathered one for the last three years is that fair yeah yeah it's I know it's been messy and ugly and there's going to be days you sit

Starting point is 00:06:45 outside and she doesn't show up there's going to be days you're sitting at a diner by yourself and so take other work you got to do or whatever but you want to constantly be showing yourself until she says i don't want a relationship with you um but like dave said but if a relationship is based on you writing her checks that's not a relationship it was never a relationship to begin with and purchased relationship has another name yeah and and and you there may come a moment when you have to exhale you and your husband and say we did the best we could for three years in this person's life and this person's an adult now and they don't want anything to do with us and that'll be heartbreaking and all that but like dave said what is a way that we can be

Starting point is 00:07:24 supportive so you get a job and i will help you for four months with car insurance until you're on your feet or i'll match you you save up part of that's my favorite part is the match something like that but i'm going to call you up and pay for it and call that mother's heart no that's just giving a drunk a drink yeah that's enabling Sure. Right. And so it's you and your husband getting clear together. What are ways we can partner with a young adult who has never had any sort of modeling up until 16 years old? That's just tough.

Starting point is 00:08:00 It's tough for that for your 19-year-old. It's tough for you all. It's tough for everybody because there's going to be a lot of hurt involved. Right. Yeah, their husband. Yeah. Yeah, and you had to get her out of the house away from the kids. So this kid's out of control for sure.

Starting point is 00:08:14 Yeah. I'm sorry. I hate that for you. But you're a good person. You're sweet. You're trying. And just don't get confused about the definition of help. Real help helps her when she's 30, not when she's 19. Some 19-year-olds, real help is unlimited beer.

Starting point is 00:08:30 No, that's not what we're talking about. Yeah. Ask yourself, who do you want this 30-year-old to be when they're 30 and reverse engineer that? Gary is in Riverside, California. Hey, Gary, what's up? Hey, good morning, Dave, and John. Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling on behalf of my mother-in-law.

Starting point is 00:08:56 She's 85 years old. She's on a fixed income through Social Security, and she's a widow. We just recently learned that she's racked up $38,000 in debt on credit cards through QVC, JTV, things like that. She's gone into a debt consolidation company without our knowledge. And then she's still spending using her ATM card through QV, JTV, HSN. And every purchase is the five easy payments. So she's got money coming out of her ATM now daily that's drawing her into the negative.

Starting point is 00:09:36 And on top of that, she was just starting to find out she was trying to refinance her home that would take her mortgage up to. to about 55% of her income. So we're looking for suggestions, one, with the debt that's in collections, and two, how to stop the ongoing money that's coming out of her account, literally on a daily basis. Doesn't matter if she goes back and does it again next week. We think we finally got her to the point where she realizes that she's got a problem and she can't do it.

Starting point is 00:10:08 Will she sign it over to you? Because right now you don't have a legal claim to tell her to stop. So she does have a living trust, and I am her financial power of attorney there, but she has not been declared incompetent or anything like that. We don't know whether or not. I want her to shut down all of her checking accounts, and she has no spending available to her except what you give her and you operate her account as if she's incompetent.

Starting point is 00:10:36 That's one of the things that my wife and I were discussing was whether she shut down that account and... For her own good. Not because you need her money, but I mean, she ain't got any, you start with. But the bottom line is, is I don't believe her. This is a lonely lady that is getting someone on the phone who's talking to her on the shopping channel. And she's figured out a way to have a conversation when she's sitting there by herself. And she's going to do it again and again and again and again and again.

Starting point is 00:11:09 Until you take all manner of payment out of her control. And the only way to do that right now since she's not deemed incompetent is voluntarily. She has to give that to you. Yeah. Look, look, this is, I've heard this story a bunch of times in 35 years, okay? And it's a classic. And so the, I'm not just jumping to conclusions here about this unique situation. I'm telling you what I would do if it was my mother-in-law.

Starting point is 00:11:41 I would say, I really can't help you unless I help you. And here's how I can best help you. I will make sure you have food and your house, and I will get these bills paid off for you, but we're going to stop all spending, and I'm going to control the account and make sure you have stuff. And until you can get the other side of this, and then we'll look at whether we want you to do it or not. But we're going to take the Social Security check, put it in a different bank, and we're going to open up an account, and I'm going to be in control of that account. going to close the other account okay and then you can jump on the phone with the

Starting point is 00:12:17 miscellaneous payment people and just go good luck she's 85 she's on social security she's got nothing um a matter of fact if i can scrape together a few dollars of hers i'll settle it with you i've got full power of attorney i'll send that to you and so what you did was prey on old people and took advantage of them and sold them stuff they couldn't afford so you're going to get what you deserve which is nothing honey so i'm going to totally mess with them bloody their nose i'll pay them something but um they can be cleared up you're just going to have to bully them for what they and that's what they deserve yeah but you can't do it if she's doing ten more tomorrow right right and she will do don't you think that's our number one concern yeah

Starting point is 00:13:01 yeah larry bricette used to say financial problems are not the problem they're the symptom if these problems are the symptom then what's the real problem i think it's loneliness part of it, but some of it she's clicking through things on Facebook and they're signing her up for things that she's not even realizing that she's signing up for. Yeah, okay. She's being preyed upon as an elder that doesn't

Starting point is 00:13:22 understand the technology and she's lonely. 100%. Yeah. And so, you know, I've got to build a system that brings that into consideration to help her. And that's what I'm outlining.

Starting point is 00:13:38 will she turn it over to you you think she'll do it it depends on the day yeah at time she seems like she's wanting to help and then at others she gets stubborn and is like I know what I'm doing just leave me alone it's your wife's mom yes your wife got siblings two of them yeah she means to make sure they're in the loop they are yeah we've let I mean they're in the loop with you taking this over because then they're not be calling me and go my brother-in-law stole all my mother's money that's right yeah and then you're setting up another war when she passes away because then it will be like where's the money what'd you do and we didn't know you were doing this just keep a real clear ledger so you know

Starting point is 00:14:26 exactly where every bit of it went so you can handle an audit and you just send them the audit and go good luck figure it out you weren't there you weren't helping so but that's coming up too but I would, I'd send them a report once a month, let them see exactly what's going on once you take it over so that they don't come back at you later. They don't have any legal basis, but I'm just talking about relationally. Yeah. Understood. And I have a personal rule of thumb. It's not ironclad, but it's just a, just seems to work better.

Starting point is 00:14:58 Does your mother-in-law listen to you more than her own daughter? Or is this a conversation that your wife and her siblings can have? we've tried that so her the siblings are out of state my wife and I have been over there a couple times over the last couple weeks and we have the conversations together my wife is standing right here with me now as we're discussing this okay sometimes a third party is helps and sometimes third party being you and sometimes it makes it more convoluted and so y'all know your family dynamics better than anybody but that's always where I want somebody to start and for some reason sometimes people can't hear from their adult kids, but they can hear from somebody

Starting point is 00:15:39 else. And so if you're that somebody else, that's great. Yeah, I had a family member of my wife Sharon's that asked me a detailed question about an estate thing. And I said, oh, that's easy. You need to do this, this, this, this, and this. And if you don't do it, you're going to create these problems and you need to do it this week. Do this, this, this and this. You got it? Yeah. Okay. You know what they did? Nothing. Not that. Nothing. It was freaking Dave Ramsey that said it. Okay. I mean, this isn't like the other brother-in-law. This is me, you know? So, you know, I got a mighty.

Starting point is 00:16:11 Nothing. So, yeah, John's right. Sometimes it's the blood that's got a, the blood kin that's got to make the message go through. It doesn't matter who it is. So you sound very credible, Gary. I like what you're saying. And I think you're going to have to, a partial is going to create a partial door open to Facebook scams to shopping channel scams. And she's going to sign up for all.

Starting point is 00:16:33 of them and she's going to end up and refinancing the house obviously is ridiculous no don't do that i would rather just put all these other bills in collections just let them go to collections and ruin her credit that'd be awesome yeah so she can't get anymore Dave so i hear this only because um i'm on this show but if i read the headlines all the headlines say is there's this bigillions of trillions of dollars of wealth in aging populations But I have to believe that's concentrated because the more I'm on this show, I'm hearing more and more of what I would call the other untold story of aging populations that are increasingly falling for internet scams, letting princes over in somewhere in Africa borrow money. The Nigerian prince has a Bitcoin. Yeah, all kinds.

Starting point is 00:17:26 But it's becoming like really significant. And I don't know if there's a broader conversation needs to happen, but people need to sit down with their aging parents, especially the ones that are not the ones that have millions of dollars at the disposal as much as these folks who are on Social Security, they got nothing. And they're mortgaging their souls for this stuff. Well, I've been hearing the shopping channel thing with aging for 30 years.

Starting point is 00:17:50 Forever. That's been going on forever. Okay. What I will tell you has increased is two things. Buy Now pay later. The four easy payments for a freaking T-shirt. a $9 t-shirt you get four payments on it okay it's a problem here people and uh then then the other thing is just technology has uh you know increase the size the scale the speed at which people

Starting point is 00:18:15 get screwed yeah and it gives you a picture of it too exactly you know Facebook gives you access to some good things but also some that aren't yeah I get so confused by these sales and these sale holidays. So apparently we have Cyber Monday Week. This is so oxymoronic. It's fantastic, Dave. We have Cyber Monday week, but it goes on all week. This is America.

Starting point is 00:18:52 Nothing's real, not even days and weeks and months. We just convolut whatever the crap we want so we can sell some stuff. That's what we do. and we're hey at ramsie we are the same way we're going to do the exact same thing so we have cyber monday week and the deals they are in full swing got hardcover books audio books assessments all with prices as low as six dollars in 99 cents shut up you can't get stuff for six dollars yeah you can hear don't wait these deals end sunday sunday the 12 the 7th of december now i'm so confused that's the lord's day and go to ramsysolutions dot com slash store

Starting point is 00:19:29 or if you're watching on YouTube and so forth, click in the show notes. I'm so caught up in this. Sherry's in Dallas. Hey, Sherry, how are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 00:19:44 So honored to speak to you guys today. I really need your advice. We'll try. I fell for the annuity scam and didn't know it was a scam until after I did it. And after my 20-day window was over. In October, we rolled $689,000 with my husband's 401k into a fixed annuity. And they gave us a 5% bonus, so the value today is 724. The problem is the insurance company, as I'm sure you know, keeps 22% of that.

Starting point is 00:20:15 And the first year's surrender charges 13%. So my question is, do we stay until the surrender charges drop, especially given I mean this is 30 days old this is 30 days old it's it's over that it was in October

Starting point is 00:20:35 well okay I mean it's 45 days old yeah he told me it's too late he told me I had a 20 day window this is the insurance agent that told you this this sold you this crap correct okay good all right

Starting point is 00:20:48 I don't know is the answer but I want more information because I don't believe the person who sold me something that's bad to start with. It's not a good source of information. Fair and fair enough. So go to ramsysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and get one of our SmartVestor pros there in your area that you can talk to and tell them what you've got and see if

Starting point is 00:21:16 the insurance commissioner in Texas will grant you a little more leeway than that and you get a hundred cents in the dollar back. Okay. And then get back out of it. So, yeah, and then get this into some good investments that aren't so front-loaded and crappy in performance. Right. So do you recommend an index fund?

Starting point is 00:21:45 I recommend a fruit jar before you do this, but the, yeah, an index fund is fine. It was a 401k, and so you've got, you need to roll it into an IRA, and based on the fact that it's in an IRA, I'm probably going to put it in the four types of mutual funds that mine are in, which is a fourth in growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international with long track records. That's what mine are in, and I'm 65. How old are you? I'm 62. Okay. My husband is about $2.60.

Starting point is 00:22:23 Okay. So, yeah, same category. And that's what mine are in, because I'm going to leave it alone, and then you've got to start talking about moving some of it out of there before you get to 73 and a half because you're going to have RMD's required minimum distributions on your 401K. You're going to have that in the annuity as well, by the way, because it's probably a qualified plan, too. So, meaning it's an... What do I do if they won't move it? And we're stuck with the 13%. Get the, I would take 13% hit and move it, because you may make 13% in Q1.

Starting point is 00:22:55 One quarter of the, of the stock market might be 13%. You know, it's certainly going to, you know, you're going to make your money back quick enough. But I'm going to, I'm not going to accept Joe Bob's answer, okay? I want your, I want somebody that knows the laws and the tolerance for this with the Texas. insurance commission to put their hands on this. It may be, but if I'm you and it's going to cost me 13% in stupid text to get this moved, you'll make that back up in good investments rather than being stuck in this thing. And the other thing is every day you wake up and you see the company name,

Starting point is 00:23:36 you're pissed again. I don't want to live like that. Yeah. Now, let's recap, let me learn from my mistake. No, it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. You were hoodwinked. So let me tell people what happened to you and you tell me.

Starting point is 00:23:49 me if I'm right. A person contacted you in your 60s about helping you create a very stable, predictable investment that would grow without taxes. And they are an investment advisor. They're a financial advisor. And the company name is a insurance company name, not an investment company name, but they posed as and sell themselves as an investment advisor. Does that what happen? Close. I actually reached out to them because they were promoted by a person in the church that's well known that I trust and follow. Yeah, there you go.

Starting point is 00:24:32 And then they drop some big names of people that they've helped and whose money they manage. And so that's what got me hooked. Yeah, but you did not place your money with an investment company. You placed your money with an insurance company. Correct. And going in, you were not planning on doing that. that's not what you signed up for you signed up for to do some investing correct and then they but they insurance agents are licensed only to sell insurance products annuities or insurance products

Starting point is 00:25:01 they cannot sell mutual funds and so this is what they sell is this crap and um and and they put people in and they can even sell a decent product which is a variable annuity but i wouldn't even to put you in that because you're getting double feed so it's just a it's just a it's It's up, yeah, man, it's awful. I'm sorry you're having that. But if it only lose 13%, I would be in good investments versus a fixed annuity. Fixed annuity is like a high yield savings account rate. It's going to pay you 4% or 5%.

Starting point is 00:25:32 If you make 12 or 14 on something, in two years you made your money back. If that's all you make. And you ought to make more than that if you watch what you're doing and get some real help. So as a possibility anyway, depending on what the markets are doing. So, yeah, I'm out of there. Wow. That infuriates me, John. Well, it's somebody else getting preyed on in their 60s, right?

Starting point is 00:25:54 We talked about earlier. Yeah. Tell me this. So when she says 13%, is that of the growth since this thing was moved? Or is that over the 13% of the entire portfolio? The entire portfolio. Good gosh. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:08 Yeah, because they're going to get their blankety blank commission no matter what. That's a crazy amount. Yeah, well, the insurance business is all front-loaded. They all get their money on the front end up and everything. and so these are frustrated life insurance agents is what they are they're not real and so sometimes you i can see these things okay the whales jumping on the pacific life yeah and we'll help you and you got people walking and they're holding hands in a rose garden and they're retiring and all this bullcrap it's it's stupid butt life insurance stuff my daughter you're not going to believe me

Starting point is 00:26:42 my daughter yesterday and her and i i wouldn't watch one of one of bluey or whatever she wanted to watch I wanted to watch football games, so she curled up on the couch next to me. And they had a commercial, and she said, what does that have to do with whatever it is they're selling? She's nine. And I was like, not a lot, Josephine, not a lot. It's called branding. It's called branding. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:03 And so if the name of the company you're getting ready to do your investment in air quotes with has insurance in the name, you're about to get screwed. That's a good way to remember it. Okay. Done. So, I mean, if you don't do, you don't get your muffler fixed at the transmission store. You don't do investments with insurance. Okay? It's that simple.

Starting point is 00:27:28 We go, you know, we go qualified people who have securities licenses, not insurance licenses, to help you do real investing. I just can't believe a penalty on anything would be 13% of the total of your portfolio. Well, and how about this? 20 day or 26 days. with a 20-day cut-off. Oh, no, ma'am, we can't do that now. What business does that? Yes, someone who is...

Starting point is 00:27:54 Home Depot will take your lawnmower back two years after you bought it and give you a full refund. But not these bozos. It's that time of year. We're going to be doing our special giving edition. of the Ramsey show up here in December. It's one of our most popular shows ever. If you've ever been involved in giving,

Starting point is 00:28:23 some kind of generosity, it could be an outrageous tip that you gave or received. It could be all kinds of different things that happen. We want to hear from you. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash ask, put giving in the subject line, and tell us your inspiring story of giving, giving and receiving both.

Starting point is 00:28:40 Either one of those will be great. And we'll put you on December 18th with us, and we're going to do that annual giving show. It's one of our most popular shows. Very inspiring stories, always coming in. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash ask, put giving in the subject line. Caleb is in Canada. Hi, Caleb.

Starting point is 00:28:57 How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Looks like you've had a, I had a month and a half longer to burn off that Thanksgiving turkey here in Canada, but I'm doing good. Good.

Starting point is 00:29:09 Good. My wife and I are wondering how we can go from being, um, intense to intentional. We have never really had any debt, no student loans, no car loans. We do have a house mortgage that we want to pay off aggressively. The only thing is standing in our way is we want to, my wife wants to travel. I want to pay down the house faster. I guess we're kind of at a standstill there on just what approach we should take

Starting point is 00:29:41 of finding a good balance between enjoying our lives. continuing to be aggressive with getting our house paid off. Okay, so when you do the budget, you have X number of dollars extra that we could either throw at the house or at travel, correct? Correct, yep. Why don't you just try and experiment, split it? Okay. Half towards the house, half towards travel.

Starting point is 00:30:06 And just see how that works for a little while. And then you may want to reset the percentages later, the two of you agreeing on them, not you persuading her that 100% needs to go towards house, or her persuading you that 100% needs to go towards travel. Right. You just have some conflicting goals, both of which are good goals. Yeah, yeah, we obviously want to enjoy. We're pretty young.

Starting point is 00:30:28 We want to enjoy our lives, but we also would like that burden off of our shoulders of having the mortgage. They're both really good goals. What's your household income, sir? Combined, we bring about net. We bring around one and home. Mm-hmm. Good. What's a balance on the mortgage? 419,000.

Starting point is 00:30:51 Okay. So I'll run out some scenarios because you're the math nerd. You're going to want to do this and go, okay. The money that we have left in a budget is X. And if I put half of it towards the debt on the house, will be done by year Y. And then you go, okay, that's, I don't know, I'll make up a number. $2,000 a month we can put towards travel. That's $24,000 a year.

Starting point is 00:31:12 That's, dadgum, couple nice trips right there. I mean, I made that number up. I don't know if you got 4,000 disposable or not. But whatever the number is, right? Y'all work on it. But I would just try something. And as John says, just, you know, it's a muscle that's been undeveloped, underdeveloped, and now you're developing the travel muscle.

Starting point is 00:31:31 And both of you, you know, she's getting some of her thing. You're getting some of yours. And if it's a smaller item that you're trying to decide, like, buying a car versus a trip, you know what we always do is just try to put which one's first not which one yeah and the thing about that Caleb what you're describing here I would want to know is there a place she wants to go or is this an identity we want to be people who go travel because if it's a place we want to go let's put a dollar amount on it let's do our research and let's let's like you said let's split it until we've saved up for that I've always wanted to go on a dot dot dot to Costa Rica or to Australia or whatever

Starting point is 00:32:11 Let's save up and do that. If she is saying, no, no, no, I want to be somebody who always has a trip on the calendar, somewhere I'm always planning. That's what I was doing. Then that's a different, that's an identity. Yeah. And let's be honest about what that's going to cost. Because it might be camping or it might be, no, I want to go to, you know, wherever, go to France.

Starting point is 00:32:28 And so getting to the brass tax of what that actually means. That's good. That's good. Because, yeah, I think you're right. My wife and I, she would say, I want to travel. And I would say, okay, where do you want to go and how much is I going to cost? And I missed what she was saying, which is, John, you're kind of boring and you like to go to bed and just sit at the house. And I want to be, I want to go out and see the world. And that was a different conversation. I just missed it. Right. Yeah. But that is different than I've always wanted to see fill in the blank. A thing. Yeah. Yeah. And you can budget that one. That was easy. Yeah. That's a trip versus a car versus a couch versus a whatever purchase. So again, all we're doing is every dollar still has an assignment. We just don't have to live on beans and rice. We can do some. travel we can buy a couch we can upgrade the car we can pay down on the house we can do all of

Starting point is 00:33:16 these and just as long as we're together and we're doing a little bit on all of it a little bit on the house extra i don't want to do zero on the house extra but but um or you can turn it up and turn it down i'm going to turn it way down because we need to get a car we need to upgrade this car mom's car is bad you know that kind of thing and then you can after we get the car we'll turn it back up you can give and go a little versus and that's if you've got identified targets well and in beneath those targets is when I think um the beauty of I don't have a different I don't have a good word for it other than that's where true marital intimacy comes from because you get beneath the hey I want to pay this house off because I I have this thing in my soul I hate owning somebody money um or I want to be someone who

Starting point is 00:34:04 travels I never got to travel as a kid and there's so much in this amazing world. I want to go see some of it. You get to have those rich conversations and they get off the spreadsheet and into your spirit, which I think is a great conversation that many couples don't ever get to. They stop at the spreadsheet and then they have a fight and then they both go their separate ways. And I love those deeper conversations. And that's good that he's calling. Absolutely. My wife and I are we're juggling this. We're arguing about this. And so that's good. But tell her why you want what it would mean did not have a house payment as a husband. right i would know my wife is always taking care of if something were to happen to me that's a

Starting point is 00:34:41 different conversation and i just want to pay this off because it's the next baby step or you know the travel so it's getting to that deeper level and i think those make for great rich conversations agreed chris is in tampa florida hey chris how are you better than i deserve dave good how can we help i have a situation coming up i have always had to pay uh well for the last three years flood insurance because I've had a loan on my house, and I was required to carry it. I've recently paid off my house, and now I'm looking at my flood insurance is going to be about somewhere between $45,000 and $4,800 for $250,000 worth of coverage with a $5,000 deductible. Are you on the coast or on a waterway?

Starting point is 00:35:27 I am. I'm flood don't ache. I'm a moron. I'm nothing wrong with that. That's not a moron. If you want to live on the beach, you want to live on the beach. But you're just, and floods happen because of hurricanes. Exactly. And hurricanes happen in Tampa. Yeah, y'all got a doozy a year or two ago, right? Yeah, we sure did two of them back to back.

Starting point is 00:35:48 In that case, in that case, I'm keeping it. Absolutely. Okay. Even if I had money, like for $250,000, I have $200 that we've been using to save up the move out of a flood zone in another area. How many years you've got to go through? like 40 or 50 years or something to break even 5,000, 5,000 and 250, right?

Starting point is 00:36:12 Yeah, I was just looking if I could park that money in an account that would grow. Not that fast. So you would maintain your flood insurance at that. I would. Just call it a sleep tax, dude. If it was me, I would. And here's why, okay. You guys remember Katrina, and we were talking about it earlier.

Starting point is 00:36:31 and just destroyed New Orleans and the houses all got destroyed but they didn't get destroyed by the hurricane they got destroyed because the hurricane destroyed the levees everybody got wiped out by floods State Farm paid nothing they paid no one anything on hurricane insurance because they declared it all to be floods

Starting point is 00:36:53 and they were taken to court time and time and time again and they won every one of them same thing in Mississippi same exact thing happened going Gulf Coast of Alabama, same exact thing. And because what happens is storm surge is considered a flood, even though it's caused by a hurricane. That's so crazy.

Starting point is 00:37:13 People don't pay their claims. And so State Farm just walked away, Scott Free. They led the charge because they're the largest, and then all the other goobers followed them. And, but yeah, they won the court cases. It wasn't a hurricane, knocked the house down as a flood. that was caused by her cane, but that seems to be irrelevant. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:37:35 Pisses me off every time I say it out. Dude, you're making my blood boil, man. I'm not a state farm fan anyway. You know that, so there you go. All right, that just sealed it for me. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney show on the Ramsey Networks.

Starting point is 00:38:05 He's my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 825-5-2-2-25. Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey, a big fan of the show. Me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it.

Starting point is 00:38:23 Well, sorry, sorry, we have been dating for four years, and we'd like to move in together. and potentially, well, we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what you thought were. The data is not in your favor. Yeah, I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project, and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income.

Starting point is 00:38:52 And something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. mentioned the statistics around the relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating? Four years. Four years? Why not just pull the trigger? What are waiting on? I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for six months to a year prior. I would like to do it. It's just that I'm also heeding their advices. How old are you? My parents. I'm 25, 26 in a month. Okay. So if you already have your, if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents, even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

Starting point is 00:39:38 I was just curious what your guys' opinions was. You already knew. Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, yeah, I already knew that. Right. We both think we're very like financially found. We've saved up a bunch of money. So I'm just curious if that changes anything or no.

Starting point is 00:39:59 No. John, how old were you when you got married? Me? Yeah. 24. Okay. I was 22. Yeah. I've been married 43 years. I'm 23 and a half. I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

Starting point is 00:40:15 I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes. Yeah. We disagree all the time. Not really. And I'm usually right. Not really. That's even hard. Not really. Let me take it this.

Starting point is 00:40:33 Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl? Yes, sir. Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, as for me and my household. Your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son. They can only advise you. Right. So my next question would be we got about.

Starting point is 00:40:54 And neither do podcasts just get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do. Yes, sir. So we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for engagement ring or rings. In our area for like New York City and Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. We've traveled to a few cities. Other than like we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses,

Starting point is 00:41:27 Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry-level positions. We graduated together with associates' degrees. Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions, separate from what you called about, right? Yes, sir. Okay.

Starting point is 00:41:46 All right. So, yes, one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. And yes, one-fourth of your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent, because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money, your house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you.

Starting point is 00:42:20 But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take home, You got a bad formula. It's not, you're going to struggle with that one. Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents can be free from now on. But they're going to be good. Yeah. No, too soon. Plus or minus the rats, yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:39 Oh, yeah. Okay. And I'm not talking about the rodents, but, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. No, Daniel, the math still has to math, even in New York. And so, yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business,

Starting point is 00:43:01 if you can't move up quickly enough with your associate's degrees into sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began, people have done that until they can afford to do it. And so, you know, in New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So, literally, New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco, I mean, these are, this is the list, right? Paris, these are very uber expensive to live in, not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but just stinking expensive, period.

Starting point is 00:43:48 And so try renting a flat in London. That'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Starting point is 00:44:01 My wife and I, we are almost done with Baby Sub 2. I'm 49 years old. And I was approached today at work to purchase a long-term care policy. It's a nursing home care. Yeah. Yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term. You don't need it. You don't need it.

Starting point is 00:44:26 That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main? The main deal is this. Long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. The percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero. Okay. So we don't recommend buying it until you're 60.

Starting point is 00:44:43 And if you're 60 and you've got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure. Just pay for the nursing home or pay for in-home care or whatever you're going to do. Okay. but if you're, you know, you've got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old, and the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically the guy dies before the lady, 75% of the time.

Starting point is 00:45:07 And so Papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money and then dies, leaves Mama broke. That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40. 49. 49. You don't need it until you're 60. I'm 65. I got plenty of money I didn't buy it.

Starting point is 00:45:23 that's where I was I was a little hesitant and I have a I have a life insurance policy you know a term life that's done I guess until I'm yeah it's at 75 it ends I also have insurance through through the military should I be purchasing any other type of life insurance you need if about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die, and that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown. Hopefully they'll be gone. And so that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And so you're with some financial planning. You outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need

Starting point is 00:46:13 some life insurance. John's in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Hey, John, how are you? Good morning. Hey, what's up? I've got a bit of a situation. We were actually starting to think about it. I know you're always getting it, so I want to hear what your point to view on this is.

Starting point is 00:46:49 I've got a daughter, 32 years old, who, became a little and a single mom. And we've got a, right now, she's working one day a week from the office and four days a week at home, and that's kind of working out. But they want to move her back to the office, and that's kind of unsustainable. So we're kind of thinking about trying to get her off the workforce for a couple of years until the kids get still a little bit bigger. How old are those kids?

Starting point is 00:47:18 one is about 20 this month and the other one is about 33 months yeah okay okay so two years and three years yeah that's right okay I thought you were getting ready to say 20 years I was about to freak out okay what happened to her husband oh gosh man I'm sorry what she do for a living She works in the education system She helps disabled kids do exams Obviously no life insurance Well his debts pretty much were insured

Starting point is 00:48:00 The house is paid for And most of his debts were covered She doesn't have monthly income from it But quite a bit The debts were covered Okay But he didn't have life insurance to provide for her or just to cover the debts, okay.

Starting point is 00:48:19 Yes. Some of them. Okay. Yeah. So it was like a couple, Ms. Lane is filled in the house insurance or the house mortgage was the biggest one. Is she asking to leave the workforce because my gut tells me this is not a great idea? No, no.

Starting point is 00:48:36 Me and my wife have come up with that idea. We're kind of seeing this is when she has to go back four or five days a week to the office. it's too long and the dates for the kids to be gone that long like on the day she works

Starting point is 00:48:49 we go and take care of the kids later in the day is but I mean you're talking about a two or three year challenge

Starting point is 00:48:56 here until the kids are in school age right? Great. Yeah I mean I would sit down and have that conversation

Starting point is 00:49:05 with her but I A I wouldn't put myself at financial risk that she might have to clean up someday

Starting point is 00:49:11 number one but number two two, it feels like you guys are watching your daughter grieve deeply, this sudden and unfathomably traumatic loss, and y'all are itching to do something

Starting point is 00:49:25 to help and support, but it's something that she isn't even asked to do. Yeah, well, I know she won't ask. No, that doesn't matter. Taking her out of any, taking her out of any support or any social circle and work especially as a teacher is your friends are there like other adults are

Starting point is 00:49:49 there taking her out of a purpose outside of these two years with the kids what what does she do again she works with um disabled kids yeah kids with special needs okay she works with special needs kids from her home four days a week how does she do that it's all online and most of the tests are done online with COVID they tried to move as much as they could to there's not COVID No, I know, but... Oh, this is Canada. I forgot. Yeah, I know, I know.

Starting point is 00:50:19 And our money is spent off the money, too. Jeez. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend it, especially with our conversation with her. It feels like a temporary solution for a permanent problem, or a permanent solution for a temporary problem. I said it backwards. Yes, that's all right.

Starting point is 00:50:37 And so does she live in your community? We're about 45. it's apart. Okay. Can you keep the kids? Oh, she went and part of their kids. No, and she goes back to work full time. Well, she's working during the day instead of daycare. That would put us five days a week instead of what we're doing now, two or three. And she likes dropping them off in the morning. And then we pick up in the afternoon on the day she's not home. Here's what y'all aren't metabolizing though. How long ago did her husband pass away? 13 months. Okay. It feels like there's still a pause on every single solitary thing has changed.

Starting point is 00:51:23 Yes. And I say this with as big a heart as I could possibly say it, but I spent my career sitting with folks who's the worst thing has happened to him. Like what you want is different now. I want to drop these kids off. I I don't want their life to change that much. I want to be able to keep this job in this town and this house. I want all those things and all that is good to want that, but every single thing is different now. And so what we want, especially for the next couple of years until those kids get into school age, is got to go out the window to what do we have to do. So before I put my personal home at risk in my retirement years, I would babysit the children. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:52:07 All day, every day. for five days a week for two years. I would rather give that up than give up and you can step into a reverse mortgage and screw up your home mortgage heading into retirement. Or one or both of you all move into the house

Starting point is 00:52:21 for five days a week and you'll go home to your house on the weekends for the next 24 months or something. Just say for 24 months we're going to step in and help you get this done and look for another job. Right.

Starting point is 00:52:31 Or possibly you have to move closer now. We have to sell this house because everything is different now. Yeah. And that sounds so callous and ugly. I'm not trying to be ugly at all, but everything's different now. And what we want, it comes second to the reality that we're faced with. Yeah, so she's not going to get her perfect life back.

Starting point is 00:52:49 Everything's not going to be back together by you throwing some money at it. Yes, and her stepping out of the workforce, all of the adults in her life, all of her support network, and just staying at home for two years. And the meaning that serving special needs kids is giving her. Right. All that's gone. Yeah. And she needs that right now. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:07 So, no, I'm keeping her in the workforce and figuring out how. That's what I would do. And it could be a change of jobs. It could be a change of location. It could be helping with the babysitting, all those kinds of things. But subsidizing her doing nothing is not a good plan. No. No.

Starting point is 00:53:24 That's, we're both in agreement on that. Hey, thank you for the call. I'm so sorry y'all have been through this. I hate all this, what a horrible, horrible thing. Okay, folks, I'm a sidebar, and it's going to sound really callous. But here's the thing. when you're 30 years old, even in Canada, you can buy half million dollars in life insurance for the cost of a pizza.

Starting point is 00:53:48 So go to Xander insurance right now and make sure you have your term life insurance in place. Yeah, they did a commercial. You can tell you whatever you want to say. I've been endorsing this company because I think you need to go to Zander insurance for 30 freaking years. So for the dadgum cost of a pizza, I don't have this conversation I just had. So we had a young lady in Financial Peace University. We videoed it and put it in the video with her permission, put it in the old class that we used to have,

Starting point is 00:54:18 that she and her husband were 23 years old. They went through Financial Peace University. He went and bought a million dollars worth of life insurance. And he got by a car three weeks later. Good grief. And she gave birth to their new baby for like a month and a half after he died. Yeah. And she comes on the video and says,

Starting point is 00:54:37 this is what having a million dollars where the life insurance means to me right now. I'm 23-year-old widow with a baby. And I can't get my husband back. I can't do any of those things. But for just a few dollars, I'm, you know, this is an act of love. I'm set up.

Starting point is 00:54:56 Yeah. I'm set up. And, yeah, that's the problem because we don't know when we're going to go. and you might get old and ugly like me or you might go out on a motorcycle like him early that's not you know so and it's not to

Starting point is 00:55:13 smirch that young man at all obviously had some insurance took care of the debts for the family she's got to paid for how he did a lot of good stuff there there's no question about that but I'm just kind of saying guys this is an opportunity to remind you all that it just doesn't take a lot

Starting point is 00:55:28 to to completely say a whole different conversation up yeah it is no good conversations when someone dies or gets killed in their 20s there's no good conversations when they got little kids a little wife little husband left at home and they're sitting there with a half million dollars or a million dollars or they're sitting there with nothing gives you a lot and having these conversations about how to come out of the workplace to take care of two two littles uh man it's incredible Okay, if you're going to win with money, you have to tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Starting point is 00:56:13 If you don't know where all your money went in 2025, that's normal, but normal sucks. We don't want to be normal. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading every dollar. The app, every dollar helps you build a personalized plan so you can work the Ramsey principles, coaches you to find extra money, and put it all to work to beat debt. and become wealthy. Answer a few questions.

Starting point is 00:56:35 Many people find thousands of dollars on average in just the first 15 minutes. Every dollar still has the same great budgeting features, but it's also going to help you work the Ramsey plan now, new and improved. Don't go into the year feeling broken stress, start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play right now. James is in Rhode Island. Hi, James. How are you?

Starting point is 00:56:55 Good, Dave. How are you guys doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I'm a 40-year-old guy. I got a fiancé and a baby who turned two in July. And my fiance and I, we have three Airbnbs that are doing really well.

Starting point is 00:57:09 Four years into it, last year we grossed about 102,000. This year we're forecasting to do about 127,000 gross on the three Airbnbs, with a 62% profit margin. Day job is hospitality sales. I make about 100,000, 120,000 a year. she is a psychologist. She makes about 110. So our issue is

Starting point is 00:57:35 there are these micro-loughs and another one is available but it's in a super historic old building. And I'm thinking about getting a fourth Airbnb. But the banks are telling me that I got to put 40% down. They're going for about two and a quarter.

Starting point is 00:57:52 So I want to hear your take if I should get another profitable Airbnb and have it under the same roof as all my other ones, or is that considered maybe too high risk? Okay. Well, I'm not sure you called the right show.

Starting point is 00:58:17 I'm not sure that you know what we do. But the – so I own several hundred million dollars in real estate. Okay. I love real estate. as an investment. I went broke in the real estate business in my 20s, if you haven't heard the story. And the way I did that was I borrowed too much money.

Starting point is 00:58:40 And the banks called our notes because we were in a high-risk scenario. The Airbnb business is basically the hotel business. It's a very high labor intense, you know, a lot. of hassle. So the money that you're earning on those Airbnbs, you're working your heinie off to get that money. And you're probably working some other people's heiny off because it's a lot of hassle. I'm the maintenance man. I'm the housekeeper. I'm the guy checking him in. Yep. Yeah. And you have a two-year-old. So yeah. Won't you pick up golf too? Oh my God. You know, I mean, you ain't got time

Starting point is 00:59:23 to do nothing. Um, so, uh, I don't know that you. I don't know that you. you have the bandwidth to add another one on your personal, number one. Number two, the risk with Airbnb's is, as you probably know, and I don't know where it stands in Providence in Rhode Island, but many HOA's, many neighborhoods, many entire municipalities are passing zoning to stop it because they're disruptive to the neighborhood. And so I know a lot of people that have lost the ability to run an AB, Airbnb on a property they bought for an Airbnb.

Starting point is 01:00:01 And in a historic setting, that's very possible. Right. It's in a unique building. It's the oldest mall in America where there is retail on the first floor, and the second and third floor was repurposed to Airbnb. So it is in a commercial zone. So that means the risk of them rezoning it and keeping you from doing it is less? To my understanding, yes.

Starting point is 01:00:24 Or it's going to take one new tenant downstairs that's a business. big tenant that says, I don't want people living upstairs. Well, we're all on the board. No, they're already got residential in there. It's just a matter whether it's nightly rental residential because it's a hotel in a sense. So, I don't know, you're doing some things I don't want to do, and I don't recommend people do things I don't want to do. So number one thing you're doing is you're buying property with someone you're not married

Starting point is 01:00:52 to. Very dangerous. Number two, you're going in debt to do it. very dangerous number three you have a high risk business model that's dependent upon someone else called Airbnb very dangerous number four you have to do all the freaking work and you're getting ready to add 25 percent of the workload going from three to four and you have a two year old very dangerous so that's what I meant by I don't know if you've been around as much and I'm not trying to be mean to you I just think I think that all you have seen in this is the

Starting point is 01:01:27 you've not considered any of the downsides, and that's the way I was in my 20s, and it's what caused me to go broke. And so now I'm always looking, I'm not negative thinker. I buy, I mean, like I said, I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. I love real estate, but I have low hassle real estate. I don't own a single Airbnb, and we've got enough residential. I easily could do that, but we don't want to screw with it. It's just too, dead gum, much work for the money, too much drama for the money.

Starting point is 01:01:55 And so we'd rather make the money, you know, a little slower and with a lot less hassle factor. And we don't borrow money. A hundred percent of our real estate is paid for. I don't borrow money to buy real estate. So I'm a fan of the category of real estate. But after that, I've kind of given you some things to think about. So until you've thought through all of those things and make sure that you've decided how you're going to own, what ownership vehicle you're going to own this in with someone.

Starting point is 01:02:25 that you're not married to, oh, real dangerous. You know, that, you get yourself into all kinds of messes here. And I think that's what the bank is smelling, and that's why they're wanting a huge downstroke. But, you know, a good way to look at any business opportunity, too, James, is to scale it in your mind, and if it doesn't scale, then don't grow it. Meaning, if it works for 40 Airbnbs, we might do four. four. If it works for four, but not five or not ten, then maybe we shouldn't do four.

Starting point is 01:03:04 Why is that? Well, because it's going to, the, the idea is not scalable to where you get out of being the maintenance man. You just have to keep absorbing more work and more work and more work. And pretty soon you're going to go, I want to quit my job and be Mr. Airbnb. Right. And that's not scaling. your one Airbnb app change or one Airbnb municipality change or your one. Yeah. Apple decides they're not going to support the app anymore. That's right.

Starting point is 01:03:34 With 13 point whatever. Oh, my crap. You know, I mean, all kinds of people. I mean, that call it that little move right there cost us about $20 million two years ago. So, you know, just because Apple decided to cough. And so, you know, all that stuff. So these are things you can anticipate. and you leave yourself vulnerable to it when you're just living right on the wire,

Starting point is 01:03:58 when you're right on the edge, and then you just keep adding to it. Keep adding to the plate until the food falls off. And that's what I heard here is a really super busy guy, ambitious guy. You said this, and man, this has become increasingly, I felt it heavier and heavier. I have a very real lived experience being in the workforce during 2008, 2009, and there seems to be a lot of folks who have entered into, 2010 to 2025 and it's been seemingly mostly upside it's just been win after win after win after

Starting point is 01:04:31 win closer minus COVID and yeah plus or minus COVID and there's the assumption that's just going to keep going that way and there's no I mean it's tough to tell somebody hey you have to be prepared for when this thing goes south a little bit or when the roller coaster takes a you know goes down and man people don't don't have the psychology for it right now yeah I mean if you've got your thing based on the Airbnb income before and suddenly they don't rent for four months, you're in bankruptcy. Whereas if you own them all in cash, you're annoyed. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:05:03 Or you put renters in. Yeah. And you get it out of the Airbnb business and you move on, you know. And that's, it's not a big deal. Right. You know, but yeah, this is a problem. Yeah. So, no, I'm, I like James because he's ambitious and he's going after it.

Starting point is 01:05:20 He's going for it. um i want to support that but i i believe in being a nightmare killer not a dream killer the ramsay show question of the day is sponsored by why refi you can't change the past but you can change your next move why refi helps people with defaulted private student loans refinance to a payment that fits their budget. Visit Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-W or that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey, not in all states. Today's question comes from Amy in Mississippi. Amy writes, I have been dating a kind, loving man for the last three years. We've begun talking about marriage and moving in together. We both like the idea of keeping my house in my name in his house and

Starting point is 01:06:21 his name and living the next 10 years in my house and then the last 10 years of our lives in his house this is all assuming we both live to be 80 and we can live independently. I've been thinking about our wills and trust and currently I have all of my assets to be left to my two adult children and he has all of his assets to be left to his two adult children. Considering we're getting married so late in our lives is it wrong to leave everything to our children and not to each other especially if we're on the same page about doing it this way? No, I That's perfectly fun. Just make sure you've taken care of the one left behind.

Starting point is 01:06:56 I mean, you know, so we've heard the stories of, okay, you're in his house. He dies and leaves it to his kids, and they want you to move out in three days. Because they want that money. They want that house. And so, you know, you need to kind of figure out a way, well, they wouldn't do it. Oh, yeah, they will. Oh, yeah, they will. Yes, they will, too.

Starting point is 01:07:17 So you have no idea. So I'm fine with y'all leaving everything, but just figure out a way that he is cared for if he happens to be living in your home, that he gets to live there a year or something, and that there's some, and then make sure he's going to have enough money to eat if you die before him, and vice versa. As long as you've made sure the other one's in good shape financially and is going to be okay. But if you've got enough money that you're independent, if he dies, you're fine, you die, he's fine. then that's perfectly fine to do this. But just make some clear communications and some clear things in the will to make sure that you don't get tossed out of the house on short notice or something. I don't want you living there 10 years, but after he dies,

Starting point is 01:08:04 but if the intent was for the kids to get the house, but 10 minutes is not okay either. So you've got to kind of think about this stuff. And don't just assume everybody's going to be nice. Write it down and tell everyone what it all says. and then tell them they're going to do that. And then they will, that's what they have to do. So they might as well be nice. Yeah, but I don't have any problem with that.

Starting point is 01:08:25 Do you? Now, would you recommend, I've never even thought about this question. Let's say two 65-year-olds, two 70-year-olds in this situation, financially established or getting remarried, is this a situation where you'd still have both people put their money in one checking account? Or are we living pretty independently at this point? I would operate the household off of one checking account. account um because we're not talking about the incomes we're talking about the i mean that i would

Starting point is 01:08:53 combine my incomes yeah and live as one household but then if one of you dies then that the other other one's income is going to go away either because the investments were left of the kid or the pension dies with the person there you go right so you're back to your half or your portion to live on and and you know just make sure you're able to live on your part he's able to live on his part when something happens if you are then this is very clean and you could even this is a situation where you can even do a pre-nup. Yeah. And it'd be fine.

Starting point is 01:09:22 I'm thinking about this in real time. I like the idea of us. Sounds like they're 60. Joining our, yes, joining our money together and saying, we have two light bills. We have two water bills because we have two houses together. Yeah, what are they doing with the other house during the 10 years they're not living here? I guess they're going to rent it out. It would be my guess.

Starting point is 01:09:39 Somebody's up for a renovation. Yeah. So you got to have time to renovate the house that you weren't living in before you have to move back into it because you've been. renting it for 10 years yeah yeah that's a decade that's something to think about so yeah but that that's the only part of this just just have a real clear cut and think through the details and write them all out as a part of the plan as a part of the will and then talk about it with both your kids you're getting everything but she gets to stay here for six months yeah and you know this and so on so

Starting point is 01:10:12 you can you know you that all of that is possible and if one of these houses appreciates 200% if we have like what happened in your name that's in your name that's right yeah you win yeah your investments appreciate 200% his don't or one of yours falls off a cliff that's yeah that's what happens that's how it worked out elisha is with us in knoxville hi elisha how are you um good can you guys hear me yes sir what's up hi um i'm calling about the question my inlaws want us to pay them back for the money they spent on my wife unfinished college one semester? Yes.

Starting point is 01:10:52 Why? Well, I don't really know where to start with this, but I started dating, we got married a couple months ago. When I started dating her, she was in college for engineering, and I pretty quickly found out that she absolutely hated it. She was miserable, and it also made me miserable. She also has a heart condition. inappropriate sinus tachycardia, and it was making that way worse.

Starting point is 01:11:21 She also got really sick in the spring semester of 25. She came down with double pneumonia and was just unable to keep up with classes. So she dropped, she dropped the semester. And currently, she's a bottom dance teacher. She doesn't have plans to go back. We've got married since then. Her college up until that point has been paid for by a fund left by her grandfather. but her parents say that they were unable to get the money for that.

Starting point is 01:11:50 And from what I am told, that's about $6,000 that they want us to pay them back. And it's not a lot of money, but it's a lot of money for us. No. Are they objectively not good people, or do they not like her marrying you? They're really not happy that you got married. Correct, correct. This first came up actually as a way to stop us from getting. getting married.

Starting point is 01:12:18 Yeah. And the main reason that they were against us getting married is they, since she was like 10, they really pushed her to go to engineering. And when I was talking to them to get permission to propose, her mom specifically asked me that I need to tell her that her degree is the most important thing in the world to me. And I couldn't do that.

Starting point is 01:12:40 I got permission from her dad, but not her mom. And the mom really doesn't like me. and we haven't heard anything about this since we got married. How long have you been married, did you say? We've been married since August the 2nd. And how old are you? 21.

Starting point is 01:12:58 Okay. All right. Honey, this is not going to go well. Yeah. Sorry, man. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I just, I want, I want to do everything.

Starting point is 01:13:08 This is not, this is not about tuition. This is about control. Yeah. I know. This is a flex. the ultimate flex. And so you just have to look at them and smile and say, you know, I'm sorry, we can't do that.

Starting point is 01:13:24 Or really her, their daughter needs to do that. Yeah. Just tell mom, sorry, we can't do that. Well, what, what, what, I'm sorry we can't do that. Don't, don't get into an argument. Don't try to explain it. Don't try to get into some kind of moral construct because there's not one. This has nothing to do with moral constructs.

Starting point is 01:13:42 And by the way, is her parents, um, the, in charge of this money from this fund, or could your wife go back to school in five years if she wants to go be a therapist or something? So her aunt is managing the fund. I don't know how much money there is left in it. To be honest, they recently told my brother-in-law that he has to stop going to the school

Starting point is 01:14:07 he's currently going to and go to the community college near them because there isn't enough money for him to go there. Okay. Okay, that's why they didn't get their $6,000 because there's not any money in there. Let me say this as blunt as I can. The relationship that you think you're trying to preserve for your wife and you has never been there. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:32 If you repay this, these are still two very unhappy parents. Yes. And then there'll be another flex and another flex. Do you anything at all? No, no. It just kicks the can down the road. It will come up when you have your first kid or we'll come up in another... There's nothing to do.

Starting point is 01:14:47 No. And you don't have $6,000. I'm sorry we can't do that. I would not say why. I would not say when. I would not put terms to it. It's a simple, closed-ended, one-sentence reaction. Mom, I know you'd like for us to do this.

Starting point is 01:15:03 I'm sorry we can't. That's it. It's over. And it's not going to go well, dude. These guys are going to go off like rockets. because this is a flex. It's a boundaryless power play. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Starting point is 01:15:26 Dr. John Deloney, Ph.D. in counseling, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. He's my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 8255-225. Warren is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Warren. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 01:15:46 So we make a decent income, but we're living paycheck to paycheck, and I've got to get us figured out. So I was calling for help. Okay, cool. So what's a decent living? What do you all make? Well, now we're making about $140,000 a year collectively. I was laid off for, I'm not laid off for three years. I was out of full-time work for about three years and was doing part-time work. I recently took a full-time job as a town job. She makes around $9,000, and I make around $50,000, right at $50,000.

Starting point is 01:16:27 So that brings us to $140. Okay. The challenge is we make a mortgage, we make a car payment, and... How much is your mortgage? At the time we pay, everything... Mortgage is 2187, and that's with an adjustable rate mortgage of a 5.6. And what's the car payment? Car payment is $4.65.

Starting point is 01:16:53 What's the other car payment? We don't have another car payment. I drive a 2003 carola. Gotcha, okay. So what do you owe on the car that's $465? $29,000. Okay. and what other debt have you got um we have one credit card of $4,000 and then we have my daughter's

Starting point is 01:17:21 college loan which is $50,000 you have a parent plus loan or what yes parent plus long okay and you're paying on that now we just started that's 316 so she's graduated Yes, she's working. Okay. And what else? We have a water treatment system, that's 109, that we owe $6,000 on that. Mm-hmm. And outside of that, that's it.

Starting point is 01:18:01 Okay. From a debt perspective. Yeah. Do you have any money saved? we have about 4,000 in savings and we have a little over 500,000 in retirement good good for you okay all right well what you've described Warren is normal the only thing is around here we say normal sucks because all the money comes in all the money goes out and only names are changed to protect the innocent you make freaking

Starting point is 01:18:29 $140,000 a year and you feel broke yeah true Yeah. I'm 56, she's 54, and we're now to the point, well, you know, we want to retire when we're 67. How long have you been back to work? A month. Okay. I get my first paycheck next week. Good, good.

Starting point is 01:18:52 Okay. All right, good. So now you're like, okay, we've got to fix this. We've been kind of treading water for a while. Now I'm back in the saddle, and let's tear into this. Now what do we do? if that's what you're asking, we can help you. The prescription is rather, the, you know,

Starting point is 01:19:10 the prescription that the doctor's going to give you is rather painful, though. We're going to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else. And so what I will tell you to do is for the two of you to sit down tonight, open up the app every dollar, and start filling out what you're going to do with this month's money, and the two of you be in agreement on what you're going to do with this much money. you stop all retirement savings temporarily you stop eating out you stop going on vacation

Starting point is 01:19:42 you're broke and deeply in debt and you have a mess to clean up so that you don't retire and have to eat dog food because that's where you're headed if you don't fix this mess house is okay the rest of this debt has got to get paid off and you know you've got 85,000 dollars worth of debt and you got to quit buying crap on credit you need to get the credit cards out and cut them up it lists your debts smallest to largest pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one like your life depends on it but part of what you're going to have to go through emotionally is you're still recovering emotionally from the time that you didn't work for a while which took a little bit of your confidence away I hear it in your

Starting point is 01:20:25 voice yeah you're right and so I want you to get like your 18 again, stick your chest out, throw your shoulders back, and get after it again, okay? Okay. Because I can do that. The fact that you didn't work for a little while is not the end of the world. You're working now. You're a good man. You're calling.

Starting point is 01:20:43 How can I take care of my family? I've got to clean up this mess from my daughter's college tuition. I got a car that's expensive. We've been spending some money on a credit cards, and we bought a water treatment thing. We couldn't afford. And because we didn't pay for it, that's how I know we couldn't afford it. So now we've got to stop all that crap and get in attack mode. clean up this debt. So making 140, if you paid 40 on your debts, you'd be debt free other than

Starting point is 01:21:07 the house in two years. So you ought to be debt free in 18 months. But you're going to have no life during that 18 months. And you and your wife got to lock arms and go, we're fighting this like the devil is at the door. Right. And if you fight it with an intensity, yeah, she'll go side by side with you. She stuck with you through this last patch. and let's get it man and that that's the thing so it's a reset of your emotions after the unemployment thing so i went broke in my 20s and uh lost everything because i was stupid and it one of the things i lost with it was a bunch of my confidence and my self-esteem and i had to rebuild it in a different way that wasn't just arrogance and cockiness but instead i rebuilt it

Starting point is 01:21:53 just based on solid wisdom gradually and uh so i ended up becoming a different man the other side of going broke and that's how i can hear that in your voice because i had it in mind i recognize it so you're a good man i appreciate it you're a good man you're a good dad you're a good husband you're not afraid of work and you can do you can do hard stuff you drive an o3 corolla man bro i've been there it's got 300,000 miles on it and you know the problem with that corolla it's got it's going to go another 600 000 miles before it dies on you man The only thing I have to pay for is to paint to paint it. And that's great paint.

Starting point is 01:22:35 So, yeah, you're in it. But I know it's mine in the parking lot. I never leave. Will your wife sell that car? Her expensive one? Yeah, she will. Okay. You may want to do that to accelerate this process to get your life back.

Starting point is 01:22:46 Because if you didn't have any payments but a house payment and you two were together doing a budget every month before the month begins, giving every dollar an assignment, you're going to see margin in there. And that margin will allow you to build wealth after you get out of debt. and that margin will allow you to increase your generosity. And I'll guarantee you that in your late 60s, you could be a millionaire if you'll follow through on this. We'll do it.

Starting point is 01:23:10 Our conversation this weekend was being a good steward on what God has given us. Well, here's what's cool. You're calling here in the beginning of December. Here's the way the cosmos is going to call your bluff. Instead of doing Christmas presents for you this year, I want you to get that $4,000 credit card gone. I can do it And that can be the great gift y'all give each other

Starting point is 01:23:32 Is full commitment And that's going to be better than any trinket Or any knick-knack you're going to get under the tree Amen, the two adults, that is The two grown-ups, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah Hey, hang on, we'll get you signed up For the every dollar premium

Starting point is 01:23:43 We'll give it to you as our gift We want to be part of your story Because you're going to turn this around I can feel it You ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere like you're on a treadmill. Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, getting nowhere. You're not alone.

Starting point is 01:24:09 Maybe you've made the changes and you've had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It isn't because money is just math. it's because money is also emotional. That emotional fight can quietly sabotage your progress or, on the other hand, propel it because you get to be the hero in this story, boys and girls. That's exactly what Jade Washaw's new book,

Starting point is 01:24:31 what no one tells you about money is all about. It's the first Ramsey book takes an honest, in-depth look at the emotional side of money, and it gives you the tools to win your battle. You can do this. It gives you practical tools to make progress. for good. Pre-order right now for 2499. Get over $100 in free bonus items, including the enhanced audio book, which is amazing. The early access to the e-book, instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Warshall, and book exclusive three-week

Starting point is 01:25:05 online book club and live Q&A with Jade. All of this. If you pre-order, pre-order today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click in the description. John, this book is absolutely amazing. I am so proud of Jade. It is the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. She just speaks from the authority of experience. Dude, I had her on my show, and it's one of my favorite episodes of all time. It hasn't been released yet. But I've traveled a country with her. I've shared meals with her and her husband, Sam. They're good friends of ours, and I did not know the depth of the story behind the money. And if you are... And she tells it all, baby.

Starting point is 01:25:45 If you are one of those families across the country that is struggling with the math part and you're also dealing with the guilt part and the shame part, man, she unravels that in this book. You got to get it. It's next level. It's so good, man, it's so good. Yeah, I agree. Gifted, gifted writer and storyteller.

Starting point is 01:26:05 Yes, she is. Yes, she is. And you're going to find out that she understands right where you are, but also to show you how to go win. And that's one of our specialties around here. So very, very good stuff. Good tools to win. Casey's with us in Birmingham, Alabama.

Starting point is 01:26:19 Hey, Casey, what's up? Hey, how are you, Dave? Great. How can we help? I appreciate you taking my call. So my wife and I just recently found out that she was pregnant. It's not like we were necessarily trying to avoid it, but we were not planning on it happening this fast.

Starting point is 01:26:37 My question is, I have an emergency fund that's about six months, a little over six months. We both drive old cars that neither one of us have had to have any car payments on. We're completely debt-free other than our house. And we've been throwing all of our extra money towards our house to get it paid off quickly. So I don't necessarily have a ton of extra money to just pay for cash out of a car. So should I pull my money out of my emergency fund to buy her a safe, you know, family-friendly car? Or would you think that it would be okay for me to finance the car, but pull all the money,

Starting point is 01:27:14 that I've been thrown at the mortgage, get the car paid off within the next year to avoid a ton of interest payments. Isn't it fun how a baby on the way just makes you grow up? Man, I'm telling you. So as if you would put your wife in an unsafe car where she's going to die, your wife is not driving a car in which she is going to die. You would not have done to that to her before she was pregnant. you love her well to be fair she's had this car for

Starting point is 01:27:47 to be fair if you thought she was going to die because this car is unsafe you would not let her drive it have you ever have you ever seen a newborn yes you know pretty much as big as the palm of my hand exactly that baby will do great in this car for six months for a year

Starting point is 01:28:09 yeah what do you what do you really worried about Are you just trying to be like the best possible husband and father you can be, and you're just looking for every possible way where you can make this thing world class? I just want, if you saw her car, she's in a 2009 Scion XD, it's a little box car with the door panels. All right, you had me a box car. I may be with you on this one, dude. So the thing is, I mean, I can afford to save up and pay for it a year from now,

Starting point is 01:28:38 but again, she'll be giving birth and be severely pregnant within the next. four to six months seven months you'll be given birth yeah all right honey the baby can ride in that car that you have it's not a pretty car it will not hurt the baby it did not hurt your wife it's a safe enough car is it an ideal car absolutely not it's a piece of crap but babies have ridden in pieces of crap since time began and your baby's not going to die from re and you're not a bad dad and no this is not an emergency you just got pregnant and you're thrilled and scared and hyper responsible all of the sudden and that's very cool so what i want you to do is um you do you do you have any debt except your home it sounds like you don't no we don't have any debt

Starting point is 01:29:25 good for you and don't ever call me and ask me to get a car payment again i'll kill you all right now once we got that out of the way because i love you all right and i'll kill you so that's it so now so the uh the uh the uh so what we're going to do is we're going to just save and so the baby is due do you do you have a due date yet uh July next year so you know we got some time so you got eight months yeah about seven okay how much money can you save by July um um about 15 to 20 thousand dollars if we really just buckled down and I work a bunch of overtime. Okay.

Starting point is 01:30:09 So the car she's driving is worth, the car she's driving is worth, what, $2,000 or $3,000? Yeah, at the most. Okay. So go ahead and pick out the car that she would like that is $15,000. And the month before the baby comes, go buy it and pay cash for it. Okay. And don't touch your emergency fund.

Starting point is 01:30:34 okay save the 15,000 between now and then that's a very nice car by the way especially when we compare it to the piece of crap she's driving today we mention anything is a luxury a rickshaw would be nicer than what she's got one of those new electric bikes yeah but yeah but yeah the um man and by the way you don't have to go from a 2009 to a tricked out 2025 yeah no absolutely not A $15,000 will buy a lot of car if you watch what you're doing. It's a great. The reason why I called today and asked is I was planning on doing the saving for the next six months

Starting point is 01:31:17 and then shelling all that money out for a car in cash. But I saw a car that is essentially what we want, and it has a really good engine transmission reliable. It's a decent price, low mileage, one owner. And I said, man, I could get this car now and not have to worry. about it in six months. I don't know if that car is going to be available in six months. Oh, believe me, there's another car. There will be.

Starting point is 01:31:40 There will be. Can I paint you the other side of this? And I hate to even put this in the ether, but I'm doing this because I love you. Is that cool? Mm-hmm. All right. You buy this car on a car note and then your baby is born and there's some complications

Starting point is 01:32:01 and your baby's in NICU for two months. or for one month. Yeah. And things get real complicated, real fast, but this car note keeps showing up at your door. I would much rather you have $15,000 in cash about to pull the trigger on a car and you've gone into what we call store commode around here and you've got some margin to take care of everything until you're holding a nice, wonderful, healthy baby,

Starting point is 01:32:26 which I'm confident what's going to be, but what I don't want you to do is to get so excited right this second six or seven months early that you jump the gun and then you chain yourself to something and take away all the freedom that you've worked so hard for up until this point. Yeah. So listen, all that happened is you got really excited and hyper-responsible because you're going to be a daddy, and that means you're going to be a great daddy, and you're a good husband,

Starting point is 01:32:54 and you care about everything that's involved here, and you want to make sure your family's taken care of, and that's caused you to jump the gun, and all we're doing is saying, down boy, you're okay, down boy. Stay the course, man, you've done so good, so good. You're going to be great. You're going to be a good dad, but just don't get pregnancy brain. only one is allowed to have that and that's her so you have to just chill let's ride this out everything's going to be okay you could wait or she comes home with the baby before you buy the car yeah bring it bring the baby home in your car yeah and um baby's not going anywhere for a little while

Starting point is 01:33:28 anyway and then everything's fine and then you go out buy a car that she looks at on the internet and you go buy it and everything's good and the meta lesson here is stop buying box cars Henry is with us in Atlanta. Hey, Henry, how are you? Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Starting point is 01:33:55 So I work as a personal assistant for a client, and it's a great job, and I love working for her. I've done it for the last two years, and over the last two years, the scope has creeped quite a bit. I used to work like nine to two, and now it's more like eight to five, and my pay hasn't changed. and I just don't know how to have that conversation of I feel like I'm on call 24-7 I got a call on Thanksgiving to book a flight and I just need my salary to reflect the value that I bring to my client's life

Starting point is 01:34:22 and I don't know how to do that. What do you make? 4,500 a month as a flat rate. That's low, yeah, for that... It is low. For a 40-hour week, I mean, yeah, for that position. And that's not including the weekend calls. Like, I get calls.

Starting point is 01:34:40 I got to call at 2 a.m. to come get the dog to go to the emergency vet. That was a few months ago. It's just, I love my client, and I love not having, like, a corporate job, but I need, I'm in baby step two. I paid off a ton of debt this year, and I'm facing down the last 10K, and baby step three and four just seem further and further without side hustles, and that's not the point in those steps.

Starting point is 01:35:01 Exactly. Are you looking for more money to stay with this client? Are you looking to not have weekend on-call 2 a.m. vet run? I would rather have more money and work more. I love to work, and I love that I have this very privileged job. Okay. But it needs to be reflected in my pay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:21 Okay. All right. So the easiest way to remember to do this is just flip the script. As they say, let's walk a mile in the client's moccasins. If you were the client and you had someone that was taking good care of you and describe, you know, and you probably are aware that you've increased their hours. that you've started to add some weekend stuff. You're probably aware of all that, but you hadn't thought much about it.

Starting point is 01:35:46 How would you want to be approached? Well, I'm an employer. I have a thousand folks working for us, okay, close to 1,100, all right? And so how do I want our leaders to be approached when someone wants to talk about their compensation? Well, number one, with gratitude, with honor, definitely, not belligerence, and not entitlement and I didn't hear any of those in your voice by the way I'm not correcting you I'm just helping you so I think you have a very I think your your your voice tone and the way you're

Starting point is 01:36:19 approaching this does not have any tinge of spoiled brat or victim in it which is really what I don't want to hear okay so you're you're really already on a good foot so I would just sit down and just up front just say hey I'm really enjoying this I love working with you my hours have expanded and you seem to be using me more on off hours and um and i'm working to get out of debt and i'd like to figure out what i can do for that to end up being reflected in my paycheck can we talk about that can i had one wrinkle to that sure so in september i went through a pretty bad health scare i was diagnosed with diabetes and i had to course correct everything very fast or I would probably not be here December 1st. And I had asked, I said, you know, can I get a small

Starting point is 01:37:10 raise? And to me, it was $500 because that would cover all my supplies. And her reaction was, oh, I can't afford that. And then today, we were just kind of talking. She had a meeting with her financial folks. And they literally said, you need to spend more. So I just, I don't know. I feel like the person is a little bit tight. And I don't want to rock the boat too much because, again, I don't want to go back to the corporate world. Well, I think you could go do this for some else and make twice as much you're in Atlanta you're in Atlanta so jump on jump on line and see what what personal assistance working for someone make in Atlanta Georgia I think you're going to find it's more than you're getting paid okay great and let me let me

Starting point is 01:37:55 say this if you have the kind of supervisor or you have a supervisor slash boss slash CEO you've got one person who's over everything in your life right um right if that's the kind of person that you can't sit down and have this type of conversation with that's a person who lacks integrity and just basic kindness and i don't know that i'd want to work i trust my weekends and two a ms with that person regardless like i've sat down with dave and we've discussed things or i've sat down with my leader and we've discussed things and i haven't got what i wanted sometimes and i trust them we got heard I got hurt and there was good reasons given and I didn't get fired not I can't afford it right you know you what I'm saying so uh if they're if they're illogical about this so from an employer's standpoint in

Starting point is 01:38:44 general a position is worth what you can hire the next one for right so if you're a personal assistant at Ramsey and you're making 4,500 and the next one's going to cost us 6,000 then that's the marketplace for that position and that's what that becomes worth that's very impersonal but that's one way to look at a comp model then beyond that that position is worth how long you've been there my personal assistant patty has been with me 23 years she can finish my sentences so her worth is worth is much greater than what the next person in to replace her and she's retiring and I'm going to have to do that so which is driving me crazy but yeah but I'm available.

Starting point is 01:39:32 Yeah, there you go. You see what I'm saying. But the point being, I mean, she works here in the building and has for all this time. But her longevity here and her knowledge base inside this organization makes her more valuable than someone in the marketplace, not less valuable. And so whatever it takes to hire the CEO of an organization like this, a personal assistant, an executive assistant, then. Patty's worth more than that, 23 years worth, okay, and gets paid more than that, by the way, which is good. She should.

Starting point is 01:40:07 I'm happy to do that. So in your case, you know, you're providing extra beyond the normal 40-hour work week because this is a very residential kind of an arrangement, and that's cool. I like that. I think it's a cool service you're providing. And I think your client may be a bit unsophisticated in their analysis of what this costs. So you might have to even provide, go, hey, look, I'm not trying to leave or anything, but I looked it up, and here's what some other people are making doing this. And it kind of made me think, what do I need to do better to be able to be worth that to you?

Starting point is 01:40:43 And because this is what, you know, if you hire somebody else, this is what you'd have to pay. And just help your client's level of knowledge base, but not in a belligerent way, not a threatening way, and be very, very careful. And, but that approach it like you would want to be approached where the shoes reversed. treat other people like you don't be treated Jesus called that the golden rule and let me let me throw this out there Henry prepare yourself for her to look at you and say no and then you're going to have um most people I don't say most people many people will head online and talk about about their boss and they don't do this they don't do that I would call you to a higher form of character which is to say all right cool I have a grown-up

Starting point is 01:41:26 decision to make do I want to stay in this job at this pay, at this pay, because my boss has been clear, or do I want to look for another person like this CEO, because I like this work, or I don't want to go back to corporate America, but right now I have some financial needs. And so for the next two to three to five years, I'm going to go do that. But it's you looking in the mirror and saying, okay, here's what I can control, and I'm not going to be a complainer, I'm not going to be a whiner. I'm going to say, okay, I shot my shot, and she said no, and then I've got to make some grown-up decisions now. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's good.

Starting point is 01:42:00 good input and um so that that's very good henry and i i i you know my hope is is that you can provide some facts in the type of voice tone that you used with us and um and those facts also would give you some confidence to have the conversation and make it very serious conversation not a threat uh but this is what's going on and so you know if one of our developers comes in and goes, a developer that's a, you know, a dev, dev three, you know, they make $220,000 in the market right now. You guys are paying me $180. We go, oh my gosh, let's look at that. We must have messed up something. Let me, let me ask you this, Dave, over the years when an employee has come to you and said, I have this thing in my life and I need more money versus, hey, here's what the

Starting point is 01:42:48 market is. I don't, their need for money is, oh, that's a ministry. There we do that. That's just generosity, but I'm not changing your comp. There you go. That's what I was getting But when someone comes and says, hey, my hours have increased, my responsibilities have increased, this is the market, now we're having a business conversation. And that's a reasonable conversation. That's a job. Yeah. But beyond that, it's me taking care of somebody that I love. There you go.

Starting point is 01:43:09 That's generosity, but that's not a comp discussion. Scripture of the day, Job 17.9, the righteous will hold to their ways, and those with clean hands will grow stronger. James Clear says you don't have to be the victim of your environment. You can also be the architect of your environment. There it is. I like that. Alyssa's in Chicago. Hi, Alyssa. How are you? I'm good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? so I had a question regarding rent I was wondering if you recommend to stay living at home which is in the current situation at my parents' house paying a thousand dollars towards my parents rent or moving out I'm taking it since you're calling it's not a good living

Starting point is 01:44:21 environment? You know, I'm the oldest of four kids. So I'm 30 years old and the youngest is 19. And so we get in a bit of tips here and there. Why are you back living at home? Why are you living at home at 30 years old? So I did move out a couple years ago in the city with my ex-boyfriend and things didn't work out. So I've decided to move back home and hammered down paying off a debt. I paid off $10K in the student loan debt, so we cleared that out. What do you make? Saved up. $70,000 in your 30 years old.

Starting point is 01:45:10 Okay. And what do you do for a living? I am a visual content specialist, but I'm looking to pivot into UI and UX design. You're looking to pivot into what? UI and UX design. These are experience design. It's like well, like development and like app design. Okay.

Starting point is 01:45:32 And that would pay more? Yeah, significantly. So if you're at home cleaning up like I'm 30, I've got so, I made some choices that dug me a hole. I've got to clear myself out. How long have you been back? Then that's one thing, but. I want to say like two or three years,

Starting point is 01:45:54 and I was able to save up an emergency fund of, I think, like, three to six months. I forget exactly, but like a 12K emergency fund. And then I also saved up 15K for a car that I would eventually buy. And then I'm saving up for, like, furniture. Okay. All right, I'll just stop. At 30 years old, if you're not sick and you haven't been abused, there's no reason for you to be at home. You need to be like a grown-up woman and stuff and go have a life.

Starting point is 01:46:30 You're freaking 30 years old. You make $70,000 a year. What the heck are you doing in your mother's basement? Yes, move out. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Buy your own milk, girl.

Starting point is 01:46:41 buy your own electricity yeah you do not need to be living under mommy's roof at 30 freaking years old you've stunted your development yeah stand up square your shoulders go be somebody it's time it's past time like three years past time you know if someone goes through a let's say that she went through an abusive thing with a boyfriend and she goes back home to heal a little bit six months or something like that so we want to provide a safety net for a our grown kids but not a hammock this is ridiculous you need to get out of here yeah well and you said it best there's a there's a safe place to be let me say this like it's like going to the hospital when you're sick but you got to leave the hospital or you're never going to get stronger again and you got

Starting point is 01:47:27 to go back out and let your immune system do its work you got to let your bones do its work let your muscles do its work you got to get back out there and it's uncomfortable but you got to get back out there um so yeah it's unless there's something you're not telling us which i have in my gut that you are but yeah it's time for you to go get your own place and get back out there and join a bowling league or go join a book club join go do something but get back around other adults your age um and don't hang around neither of which go bowling but yeah no dude they're coming back bowling leagues are coming back is it really it's zooming back it's ironic it's like james and his tight shorts and fender guitars like these guys are bowling again it's coming back man the cool

Starting point is 01:48:05 the cool kids are bowling i don't i wouldn't call it yes you just made all that up no i'm serious I'm serious. I've read about it. They're coming back. Because here's the thing. Kids' lives are awful on screens. And they're like, we've got to start doing something. And bowling was the answer? One of many answers. Wow. I like a good bowl. You do? I'm terrible at it. I'm the worst. I'm the worst. I'm worse at bowling than I am at golf. And you know how bad I am at that. Yeah, you're happy Gilmore for sure. I'm not good at that. Yeah. Teeing it up in the fair way. Yes, he did. He did do that, boys and girls. I watched it happen. All right. So yeah, honey, you need to move out. That's no question. Okay, next is Tristan in San Francisco. Hey, Tristan, what's up?

Starting point is 01:48:46 Hey, Dave, hey, John. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help? So I'm going to be proposing to my girlfriend, and we agree on most financial things. I've been talking about not using credit cards or building a credit score like Dave teaches, but I struggle to explain how people get approved for things like apartments without a credit score. when landlords check it and so my question really is how do people practically live without a credit

Starting point is 01:49:15 score and how can I explain that to her they do all the time there's a few landlords that check it but we did we've had George got on his YouTube show and called a whole bunch of apartments and every one of them took him in the he just said hey I'm moving to town I don't have a credit score I just got out of school you rent to me and they went yeah no you know you have a month two months deposit whatever and yeah we'll rent to you just proof you need proof of employment but I think I think two out of like 20 like 10% of them said they wanted a credit score or they wouldn't rent the rest of them said sure that's mythology that everybody spreads it's absolute freaking lie when you actually do when you actually start calling apartments they rent to you yeah the same thing with housing yeah yeah some mortgage companies don't know how to do a no credit score loan but again George and you know it's George and his wife got Whitney they got married met here got married here and well they're both working here, and they went and bought a home with no credit score from Churchill

Starting point is 01:50:13 Mortgage, and somebody else did. I did. I did. They did manual underwriting. It's called manual underwriting. You do it with no credit score all the time. You just got to, but not all mortgage companies know how to do it, so you can't just walk into any old mortgage company, because a lot of them are dumb.

Starting point is 01:50:29 They just look at the numbers. It's like a monkey. They look at the number. Who, who. Number's big enough. Who, who. Number's not big enough. That's credit score lending.

Starting point is 01:50:36 There's no brain involved. They just could depend on a hundred. 100% on the algorithm. But it's mythology because it's not a measure of financial health. Yeah, if I gave you $10 million, your credit score wouldn't change. So it has nothing to do with your wealth. It's not a wealth score. It's like a dating app for how well you've dated debt in the past.

Starting point is 01:50:59 Yeah. Yeah. I tried to explain that to her one time, but I didn't really have the words to tell her. She's really good at paying out for credit cards. Oh, well. She uses them, but she... Let me tell you what, I am, too, because I don't have any. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:51:13 I'm really good at it, too. I'm not good at it, so I've been... Hey, how old are you, Tristan? I'm rid of them now. I'm 24. All right. I learned this lesson in an embarrassing way in front of a college president at the age of 28. Okay?

Starting point is 01:51:27 So you've got to fore your head start on me. You ready for this advice? Yes. Never enter into a persuasive argument without knowing your facts and figures. Mm-hmm. so if you think you shouldn't have a credit score and she says why and you go uh i heard on radio because there's this podcaster he's awesome and then you're going to lose that so do your homework on that and that'll be work in your marriage and at your workplace yeah and just you know

Starting point is 01:51:55 you can jump online there's plenty of our clips and things you can get on it explains how the whole algorithm works and everything on the credit score it's a complete charade 100% of the math in in the algorithm to build your credit score has to do with how you interface with debt. It is not your income. It is not your net worth. It is not anything to do with health or wealth when it comes to anything. All it is is, did you borrow money? Did you pay it back?

Starting point is 01:52:21 What kind did you borrow? How much did you borrow? It's an I love debt score. And if you don't love debt, you get a real low one. I've had a zero credit score for decades. It's not determinable. That's what they call it. N.D.

Starting point is 01:52:37 That's what I am. I'm an ND. I like it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before. You know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - App - You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions

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