The Ramsey Show - App - You Can’t Help People by Enabling Them (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze discuss: Do we need a consultant for our business, Being proactive with money, Family that always asks for money. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help folks build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Graham in Richmond, Virginia starts this hour off. Hey, Graham, how are you? I'm doing well, Dave and Rachel. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Hey, so me and my wife, we're exploring. We're just in the early stages of exploring starting an ice cream business.

Maybe having like a seasonal to start with ice cream stand in the summer. And so there is a business nearby that kind of does something that we had in mind, you know, a similar business model. And I went on their website just to kind of explore, you know, what they're all about and found that the owner actually does consulting. And so my question for you was, do you think it's worth it? And I can give you the prices and things. Do you think it's worth it to do this consulting before starting a business,

or is it better off to put that money just into the business and go for it? You know what I mean? Well, I think it has everything to do with how expensive he is. Of course. It's worth it to get to do with how expensive he is. Of course. It's worth it to get knowledge from an operator, for sure. But if it costs more than the stupid ice cream, then no. So what's he charging?

So there's three packages. There's two that I think would be, you know, that I'm on the fence about. The first one is $350. And so it's a one, two hour meeting and one, uh, hour follow-up phone call. And so it's just basically getting an overview of how this person, um, went from, you know, the idea to opening their business over in the course of nine weeks. Um, the second one is, uh, $1,050. It says they go deeper, help you create a game plan for your business launch, includes three two-hour meetings, three one-hour follow-up phone calls, and a one-hour walkthrough of the operation that they have going. And what will you invest into the business, do you think?

So we're trying to look right now. It's essentially the business model is kind of having a trailer and then renting out a parking lot area and having the trailer parked there, and that's the location, and then, you know. So, I mean, what are you going to spend? Yeah, so probably about $3,000 to get a pretty handy. So we're looking at getting, like, a camper and then renovating it. I would do all the renovating. And, you know, I'm not entirely sure how much the cost of, you know.

So let's say you're going to spend $10,000 to get this thing open. Sure, sure. Okay. Then, yeah, either one of these makes sense to me what do you think uh yeah and graham honestly because of the size of the operation if i were you i wouldn't go to this ice cream guy because he's going to be your competition but if there's a guy an hour to out to find two different people doing it and be like hey i'll come buy you dinner uh and can i just pick your brain for two hours they honestly may have more real world experience in the ice cream world than the consultant i mean no the consultant owns a business he owns one oh you're literally going to the ice cream guy or he no i think the ice cream guy hired a consultant and you're going to that guy no no no no this is the actual owner no, this is the actual owner of the business. Oh, I misunderstood you.

I'm sorry. I'd pay $350 for that in a heartbeat. Yes, I'm sorry. I thought it was just some random consultant that this guy used. Okay, yes, then I would do that. This is the actual owner. I apologize. I misunderstood you.

I would not spend over $1,000 on a $10,000 business, but I would spend the $350 in a heartbeat, and I might spend the $1,000. Okay. What I might do is ask him, if I did the $350, could I upgrade the difference, give him another $750 later if we wanted to add on more time? Sure, that makes sense.

See how the first $350 does. Because I've got a feeling this guy doesn't make his living out of consulting with those fees. Yeah, yeah, I doubt it. And I don't know necessarily if this, you know, pays their bills, you know, throughout the year. I'd love to ask them that and kind of, you know. The consulting is just enough people have asked him about it that he got tired of giving away his info for free. That's all it is. He's not charging enough.

So, yeah, it's worth every penny of that from an actual operator. Yes. Now, around here at Ramsey, we will bring in people like that when we're in a space that we're going into a space that we don't know. It's a new space for us, like we did the Borrowed Future documentary. We'd never done a documentary before, so what did we do? We called everybody we knew that had ever done a documentary, and everybody we didn't know, but we knew they'd done a documentary. And some of them were very generous with their time and helpful.

For instance, our friends, the Minimalists, have done two very successful documentaries, and they shared everything as friends with us that they had done and what to do, what not to do. You know, this won't work. When you try that, don't even bother. Don't call that guy at Netflix. He won't even talk to you. And that's worth the money.

If you were to pay it. If you paid $350 for all that, that would have been a deal. Yeah. You know, but that's what we always do. We try to get people in the business that are. Now, sometimes there are, then there are two other kinds of consultants. There are other kinds of consultants who used to do it, and they used to do marketing for somebody. Now they do marketing consulting.

And they've got a lot of experience, and they really know what they're doing. Maybe SEO is an example, and they do SEO consulting on the side. And they actually know what they're doing because they've had hands-on doing it, and they're valuable, and they're probably worth it. Sometimes, though, consultant means unemployed. That's all it means. It's like life coach, right? If you're a 23-year-old life coach, you haven't had enough life to coach, okay? So, you know, I love you. I hope it works for you, but I'm not hiring you to be my life to coach okay so you know i don't you know i love you i hope it works

for you but i'm not hiring you it'll be my life coach okay i got socks older than you so um you know that that's that's that's the kind of thing you're looking for so in the radio business for instance there are consultants all over the radio business and most of them they just were people that didn't make it on the air that's all they are they're just unemployed there's a few of them they're legitimate consultants and they're friends of mine and they're good people and some of them, they just were people that didn't make it on the air. That's all they are. They're just unemployed. There's a few of them that are legitimate consultants, and they're friends of mine, and they're good people. And some of them just run around popping their gums, and they couldn't cut it on the air. They never could get a show that got ratings.

And so now they tell everybody else how to do it, which is hilarious if you think about it. So the key is that they were successful at some point or another in what they're consulting. No, no, no. They just took conviction. But for people listening, if you're going to hire a consultant, make sure that it's someone. Oh, the key is, yes. That has, the key is. Yeah, they actually know, they've got some, some track record in doing something.

Yeah. And, and in this case, the guy's an actual operator, which is like the best of the best. A hundred percent. Yes. You know, that's, that's what you want. You want somebody who's actually got, that's one of the reasons people love our Entree Leadership material, because it's how we run our business. And by God, the stuff we teach you to do in Entree Leadership, I did it this morning in a meeting.

You know, I mean, it's our playbook. It's what we do around here. We're operators. We're not somebody that – you know, a tenured college professor who's never made payroll and has an opinion on business. So, no, we actually freaking do it. And so that's what you're looking for is people with some common sense hands-on experience i love that question graham very nice that's exciting too graham yeah it's kind of fun i know get the hammer out and take

a trailer and pop it into a little ice cream stand you never know man you might be ben and jerry's before we know it probably not you might be better this Jerry's before we know it. Probably not. to tell you about the newest product from Ramsey. It's called Gazelle, and it's a digital banking experience that will help you spend and save the Ramsey way with banking services provided by Pathword NA. You'll get a single spending account with no monthly fees, and it's FDIC-insured through Pathword NA. We're offering early access to our beta customers, so you can help us make it the best experience it can be. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash gazelle to sign up my co-host today. Hey, folks, put your dang phones down. Over the years, we've substituted having deep and meaningful conversations

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Shop at RamseySolutions.com. Me and Courtney Dexterhouse, we were doing some the other day. One was, how long can you survive in the wild? So you're just dropped in the middle of nowhere. How long would you survive? I guess I would just survive. How long? How long?

The rest of my life? Stop! Oh, my gosh. It's not like, I'm going to make it. I mean, you know. See, this is why he's not fun to play with sometimes. I know. But I mean, what do you want?

Two years? I'm 62. 28 years. Oh, you know. See, this is why he's not fun to play with sometimes. I know. But I mean, what do you want? Two years? I'm 62. 28 years. Oh, my God. I said 72 hours. Really? Then I wave my flag. I could last three days.

Oh, you have the option of waving a flag. I didn't know this. Yeah, like how long would you be like a flag? If you wave the flag, is that when you die? You said survive. Yeah. I'm going to die. So, yeah.

I'm going to kill something else and eat it. One of my favorite questions, not from Questions of Humans, I'm sure it survive. Yeah. I'm going to fight. I'm not going to die. So, yeah. I'm going to kill something else and eat it. One of my favorite questions, not from questions you use, I'm sure it's in there, is like if you could just like wake up tomorrow, the movie The Family Man with Nicolas Cage, where he like woke up and he had married his high school sweetheart and like what his whole life would have been totally different. He was like this like stockbroker in New York City. And then he woke up the next morning and he had married a kid. Yeah, I remember that.

That was a weird movie. So that's a fun. No, I think it's fascinating. So it's always a fun question if you were to wake up the next morning and he had married kids. I remember that. That was a weird movie. No, I think it's fascinating. So it's always a fun question if you were to wake up the next day and be anything you want. So we always ask, like we were asking Phelan. Winston was going to be like a secret agent, right? Yeah, like Winston would be like a sniper or something, you know what I mean?

He would be too. He'd be a good sniper. Bill would go and be a fly fisherman in Colorado. Dave's like, I'd just be me. I'd be me. Well, I mean, why would I want to be anything else? Come on, I've got a great life. You're like, you're not fun.

If I wasn't me, I'd want to be me. That's what I'm saying. How long would you survive in the wild, Dave? I don't know, until I died. I'm like, this isn't fun. Apparently, what you're saying is these conversation cards don't work on me. They don't work on you, no. We got in one of those. Daniel pulled them out in a board, operating board meeting, and I don't remember what the question was but it ended up being who

got the most ticket tickets uh speeding tickets speeding tickets and we totaled them up there was like eight people in the room and i had more speeding tickets than all of them combined i believe it speaks breaks the law a law breaker every day next to me every day it's it's um laws don't apply i don't wear a mask and i don't follow and i don't why how did that go there how did that go there anyways don't follow the speed limit you're a speed Ian get me out of this please god Ian is in Miami hey Ian what's up and how long would you survive in the wild ian oh um i don't know maybe like a week i would say nice i'm not sure good for you okay he's scared to answer you so uh you're scary so you don't answer the way you want it's a

problem all right ian what's up what's up how can we help you? How can we help you? Well, thanks for the time. I appreciate it. My question is trying to figure out how I can best or more effectively save money. So my goal right now is to eventually buy a home. I recently graduated from college, so I graduated last May from college. Congratulations. What's your degree in? Thank you. I studied Spanish and chemistry good good okay um and so right now i'm living at home i'm saving on rent obviously since i'm not paying for rent uh you're cutting out you cut out and all

we heard was your stuff you're at home saving on rent. What do you make a year? I make $60,000 a year. Okay. Move out. Okay. Okay. Right now, I'm basically pocketing about $2,000 a month and putting that in a savings account.

But I wanted to know if there's a more effective way for saving. I've got some side hustles that I do, you know, dog sitting and photography. That's, you know, some nice chump change, but I'm looking to expand that further if possible. Good. And I wanted to see if you had any sort of tips. I mean, right now it feels like I'm living more reactively, financially speaking, and I want to figure out if there's a way to be more proactive. I think you're more proactive than you give yourself credit for. You're out there.

You've got side hustles. You have a savings game plan. You know exactly where your money is. You're telling your money what to do. You're not wondering where it went. I mean, it sounds like you're pretty proactive to me. What do you feel like you're reacting to that you're out of control on? I guess it feels like if you're familiar with Miami,

there's the whole scene of, you know, you've got like crypto and there's all this other stuff blowing up, which I typically don't pay much attention to. But I figured there must be another way, maybe. There's not a shortcut, dude. The stock market. There's not a shortcut. I don't know.

Are you investing at all, Ian, though? Are you investing in anything? Um, I mean, not necessarily. I mean, I've got like, uh, you know, my 401k and I've got, you know, um, I think a money market, um, that I share with my twin sister. We kind of figured a couple of years ago, we'd want it to save some money together when we both set aside some money there. But why besides that i'm sorry why do you save money with your sister you're a grown-up well we figured we've we've always you know grown up together and we're like why not you know this was during the pandemic and we were just

kind of sitting at home and figured how much is in that account um i don't know off the top of my head i think it's probably around three3,000 to $5,000. Okay. And how much is in your other savings? $40,000. Way to go. Very well done. Okay.

Here's what I'm going to advise you to do. The wife that you meet in the future is not going to be fond of sharing a savings account with your sister. So I'd break that up today, not because I'm mad at your sister. I'm not. I think she's sweet, and it's wonderful that you're twins and you do this together. But I would break that up today, not because I'm mad at your sister. I'm not. I think she's sweet, and it's wonderful that you're twins and you do this together. But I would break that up today. And so now you have $41,500 in your account, and I would go get you an inexpensive apartment and set you up a grown-up life.

Okay. And I wouldn't worry about investing and looking for a shortcut. I'd start saving, like continue to save like crazy towards buying a house sooner rather than later. There's no panic. There's no rush. But sometime in the next year or two, try to buy a house. Do you have any debt, Ian? I have no debt.

And so that is also huge. Yeah, that's right. That's what I kind of figured. You know, I want to figure out if there's a way to just, obviously you said there's no way to make money fast, and I've definitely realized that. But, you know, just trying to kind of leverage all of the opportunity that I have now. Let me give you an opportunity you haven't considered, okay, from 30 years of doing what I do. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20 20 head knowledge you are a very controlled and disciplined and

mature young man well done sir well done now what i have found is that people when they move out of their parents house and buy their own milk and their own bread and get their own clothes cleaned and that kind of thing it does something inside of them that causes them to make more money and it's it's a little bit it's a little bit hard to calculate with a math formula but it's uh it's like the last stage of growing up, and that's what you need to do. If you were my son, I would love you so much that I would kick you out. But I would do it gently and kindly, and we would help you get something set up, and we did that with our kids.

We weren't mean to them. But the last stage, you're at it, baby. You're a year out of college. You've got $40,000 in the bank. It's not financially efficient for you to live at home because you're at it, baby. You're a year out of college. You got $40,000 in the bank. It's not financially efficient for you to live at home because you're limiting your personal growth. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

And that's what I'm going to encourage you to do. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Brock and Jenny are with us. Hey, guys, welcome. Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you all live? We live in Colorado Springs. Oh, very nice.

Welcome to Nashville. And here to do a debt-free scream, how much did you pay off? We paid off $374,000 in about one and a half years. Way to go. Wow. And your range of income during that time? From $240,000 to start and we ended about $350,000. Excellent. What do you guys do for a living? Well, I have a waxing boutique in Colorado Springs and I started that about six and a half years ago with my daughter when she was about six months old or so.

And I'm a digital product manager at a financial institution. Ah, okay. Very well done. Very nice, y'all. Well, you guys are killing it. Well done. And decided to take this fabulous income and just knock the debt out. What kind of debt was it?

We paid off the house. Woo! Oh, nice. All right. Looking at weird people. And that's a nice house too. How much is it worth? Now? About $950,000.

Amazing, y'all. So I'm looking at Baby Steps Millionaires as well. Well done, you guys. At least a lot more. So how much is in retirement accounts? About $900,000. So a couple million dollar net worth. Well done, guys.

Thank you. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. How old are you millionaires? I just turned 40 this year. I'm 36. Amazing, you guys. You killed it. A lot of people make a great income and completely screw it up,

and you guys made a great income and killed it. Way to go, y'all. Thank you. Well done. Very well done. Excellent, excellent job. All right all right year and a half ago you say you look up and you go uh we can reach over and smack the house and knock it out it's doable you can see the numbers and uh what made you do that um it actually started uh when we moved to colorado springs um we've been there going on eight years now and And one thing that I came across was

your podcast. When my son was little, I didn't know a whole lot of people. And so to put him to sleep when he would nap, I would just find a neighborhood to drive around and I would listen to you. And I loved everything that you taught. And I'm good for putting him to sleep and i ended up mentioning it more and more and more to brock and to the point that brock got tired of hearing it yeah and then it was just like you know what let's let's just like hammer this down and for me it was when we paid off our cars, we were like, oh, well, why don't we just take that amount, that set amount that we would be paying every month for a car payment and add that to the mortgage? And it just sort of kind of went ahead from there. We had a general approach for avoiding debt and how to save money, our own four-step process that we had. However, when I learned more about your process, which is more sophisticated

than what we were doing at the time, and we were also willing to play with fire to have benefits, but those benefits really are ancillary versus the risk. And then we fully adopted your plan and fully stopped putting money into an excess emergency savings or investing it.

We decided to redirect that to the house and now we have no fire in place and now we can redirect that money fully to investing. And it's it's it's far more comfortable and your approach about the snowball and really how you begin to fire it individual objectives really helps you to achieve it a lot faster and i think that one half year period we paid off our house was it was a whirlwind when we look back on it you look at it as like an insurmountable task, something that would be very difficult.

And looking back on it, you go, it was a breeze. But it's not something I want to revisit, so certainly going back in and off the table. Yeah. But you're done forever. I mean, you're sitting on a million-dollar house, and you're not even 40 years old, and it's paid for, and you've got all this margin now. You can do anything you want to do. Yeah.

The goal is from how we grew up in our experience as children and very fortunate to be where we're at and very fortunate with our two children that we get a chance to give them a different life and build upon that. A very different life than what we grew up with. So we didn't talk about money or anything like that. Sorry, Rachel. No, no, no, no. You're great.

You're great. I was going to just say, though, Brock, you sound like a very process oriented guy. You have your processes and all that. Tell me the emotional side of being debt free. We've taken a call even last segment and the guy was like, I don't know. Should I pay off my house? It's only

3% interest. He's kind of toiling because of the math. It didn't feel like it. You probably, I would assume, can fall in that bucket. The idea of paying everything off, how does it just, how does it feel? Both of you want to know, but it feels great. Like when you guys ask questions about sort of what's the, how do you do this? I think you can focus a lot on the tools for how to do something, but I think really you focus on the behavior components and the prior guests talked about discipline equals freedom. And I'm a very big Jocko Willing fan. And if you have the discipline to do something, you will get the freedom from it

if you're willing to dedicate the time and the focus to that. And a real big habit of mine is to break habits. You can break most habits in the middle of a week. And so I really try and find things that are sacred to us or things that I shouldn't be doing and try and break those, whether it's through exercise or diet or paying off the house, which is another habit that we broke is like it's only, you know, $2,000 plus a month. Not a big deal, right? But the behavior and how you engage that, that stuff that really challenges me and that stuff that I really embrace overall myself. It's awesome, you guys. Incredible. What did it do for your marriage, walking this journey?

I think we're really good team players to begin with. And so I feel like we're just so much stronger, especially now. I mean, when you can get a marriage that really coincides on the financial aspect of it, it really strengthens so many other aspects of the relationship. And everything else seems kind of trivial after that. Early on in our relationship, we had a situation where we first started dating and I took out a credit card and built up $1,000 in debt. I was 19, she was 24, and I wanted to impress her. And one night, we couldn't pay for ice cream. And it led to a really honest conversation the first year of us dating. We've been together for nearly 17 years of really hard learnings.

And I look at this as like a ladder. Every ladder, you get to a plateau of where you get a better view and a better view. And so us saving our first $1,000 or us having our large emergency fund or us paying off our house, now our view is more and more broad. So those controls that we had on money get looser and looser as we get more control and a better vision for where we're going in the future. And so things get a lot easier

when you start letting go of that. And a great example of that, I know this is funny here, but I don't care about her getting her nails done now at this point. I used to, now I don't. It seems like a trivial amount, but that goes back to, I know this is funny here, but I don't care about her getting her nails done now at this point. I used to, and now I don't. It seems like a trivial amount, but that goes back to, I think, discipline. And behavior.

Discipline equals freedom. Oh, it's only this. It's fine. It's not a problem. Jocko and I have been trading ideas back and forth for many years, and it's the same thing. The way we say discipline equals freedom is if you live like no one else later you get to live and get your nails done like no one else right

yeah when I recommend books I always recommend his books and your books because they're life changing thank you

thank you I'm not near as big or tough as he is but yeah actually he's a big softy really if you get right down to it

but doesn't pull it off well but he is he's a great guy alright guys congratulations we got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's where you are.

You are one. And a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away and help somebody move along this journey. And, of course, we've got a Financial Peace University membership for a year, and that's the new videos with George Camel, Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, and me, and the best financial peace university we've ever done right now going out there. So give all that away.

Help somebody out. You guys are incredible. You've got a real grasp on the things it takes to win, not only in finance but in everything else. You're a pretty impressive couple. Very, very well done. Thank you so much. Very well done.

And let's bring the kiddos up. What are their names and ages? Liam is nine, and Harper is six. All right. Good-looking guys. I like it. Well done. All right.

So Brock and Jenny, Liam and Harper from Colorado Springs, $374,000 paid off, 40 years old and less. They did all this in a year and a half. They make good money, $350,000, but they have a million-dollar house that's paid for and a million dollars in their retirement are just under in both cases. Count it down. Let's hear a great debt-free scream. One, two, three. We're debt-free! We're debt-free!

So sweet. Wow. That's incredible. Talk about a family tree being changed. They did it with an exclamation point. Boom! So fast. Wow.

Fabulous. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Our scripture today, Proverbs 9.9, Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still. Teach the righteous and they will add to their learning. Thomas Jefferson said, Honesty is the first book of wisdom. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ruth is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Ruth. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thank you for Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Well, my husband and I have been married for 29 years, but we've always had one problem, extended family. You're the only ones. Well, my husband came from welfare and got his college education, and then I came from the opposite side of the track.

But both sides of the family has always had money problems. And we've been having problems understanding what our biblical responsibilities are to family. And it got so bad at one point when we were 45, we looked around and discovered that we had less than $100,000 in our 401k. We had $80,000 on credit card debts and a big mortgage. So we said to our family, this has got to stop. We're being ruined. And so we spent a lot of years. We've had $700,000 in our 401k,

we're down to the last 4,000 on a credit card, and we have 11,000 emergency funds. So we were going to be debt free this year, and our mortgage was paid off. Then we said, we're doing great. Then the family emergencies happened again. His parents are in their mid-70s, very bad health, and Ray, his sister, and her two daughters all ended up homeless at the end of the year. So we grabbed a $30,000 loan out of our 401k, bought a manufactured home for them, a three-bedroom, threw them all in it, and got our name off of it because we didn't want to be legally drowned with them. And then just other emergencies happened, and our $11,000 emergency fund drained also. Part of that was us.

We had a basement leak, so that was $6,000 for waterproofing. How old are you? I'm 55, and that's what has... How old is your husband? 55. So when are y'all going to stop this? Exactly, but how can we walk away from family? Isn't biblically...

No, it's not. Especially as parents. No, it's not. Biblically, there is no mandate for you to support misbehavior. If your mother is doing cocaine, you are not biblically obligated to buy it. True. If your mother is misbehaving and won't work, you're not biblically obligated to buy her food.

Not biblically. Absolutely not biblically. Those that won won't work don't let them eat paul said have you remember reading that yes but now his parents are too old to work and they're very sick yeah that's not what i'm talking about you said biblically let's solve that first because you got to quit blaming the bible for your lack of boundaries okay it's not the bible's fault you can honor the position of father honor your father and mother remember ten commandments okay you honor the office of father and mother but not the misbehavior of father and mother okay if your father raped someone you wouldn't honor that oh no okay you don't so you honor you but you can still honor the office of fatherhood

okay you follow me in the office of father the office of mother so we can honor your mom and dad even though they have misbehaved even though they're now let's move past the bible then and say okay from an emotional standpoint, they need some food. Am I going to go buy them some food if I have $700,000? Yes, I am. Okay? Right. No question.

Am I going to give them a house? Probably not. Am I going to make them get on a budget and live within their Social Security income? As a part of me loving them well? If I'm going to give you money, you're going to do what I say with this stuff. But you're just giving a drunk a drink for 25 years. You're enablers. stuff but you're just throwing you're just giving a drunk a drink for 25 years you're an abler's well we thought we were saving families like when we paid the property taxes for his brother so that he and his four children actually his brother did get out of everything and now he's

a truck driver and they're doing well okay Okay, so you did help them. Yes. You enabled them to do better instead of enabling their misbehavior. Right, but no one else is doing better. Okay. So the reason is you require, if you give someone that has an alcohol problem, that you have a process in place that they don't spend it on alcohol. I'm using that as a metaphor, you understand. Right, right, yes, I do.

All right. So you're sweet people. You're kind people. And, by the way, Ramses are kind people. We just understand boundaries. And, Ruth, it's taking you and your husband, your heart, for wanting to help, right? You've done it in a misdirected way, but still taking that spirit of helping and whether that's through teaching, whether that's through, hey, you're going to go through this class,

whatever you put up, there's a way to still help and love them by not just funneling the money constantly. So who else are you guys, who is dependent upon you right now in your family? My husband's parents, his sister, her two 20-year-old daughters. Why don't they work? They are emotionally damaged or get counseling and too shy to interview yeah they need to get a job now yeah honestly we would have been okay not helping them but on it we because we did say stop when we turned 45 but then when his parents became too ill we're like well we can't leave them

out on the street being that ill. But if I'm going to help them, the other people don't get to live with them. We were hoping that they would take care of his parents. No, you weren't. You didn't have no intelligent person. I already know these people well enough to know they're not going to do that. And you know them a lot better than i do true they're too shy and they're too deep into counseling to go out of the house and get a job and you thought they were going to take

care of someone you didn't really think that no we thought if we threw them all together they could kind of help each other oh darling that was bad hypothesis we're gonna put a bunch of broken things together and it's gonna make one fixed thing i don't think so okay so you guys have got listen i'm gonna send you a book called boundaries by dr henry cloud and i want you to lovingly kindly and firmly start helping people not throwing money at them and helping them means you move them like you did the one brother-in-law to sustainability every move that you make with money has to move them towards standing on their own all right and some people that may mean not giving money to and just letting them be what comes yeah yeah

magically 20 year olds magically 20 year olds who get hungry will go get a job it's magical true very true they'll bust through their trauma and it'll be amazing or they'll end up in an institution or something because they truly have a mental illness at a level that they don't need to be living down with broken down 75 year olds right right that actually is true too yeah so one of the two they need to get up get they need a to get off the ladder. They're 20. And they're parasites. They're parasites. So it's time. It's not good for them.

What has been modeled. And our future, too. What his dysfunctional family, it's his family. What his dysfunctional family has modeled to these two 20-year-olds is horrible. Yes. It's done them a disservice. That's what enabling always does. It's a diss Yes. It's done them a disservice. That's what enabling always does. It's a disservice.

Yeah. And now that their problems aren't real and all of that, but you have to, I mean. I want you to love them. I just want you to love them well and thoroughly and with wisdom and kindness and firmness. And all you've done is just kindness only. And it hasn't resulted in what you wanted. That's why you called. The book is Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. Hold on, we'll send it to you. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial

peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.