The Ramsey Show - App - You Can’t Ignore Math in the Name of “Wellness” (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

George Campbell, Ramsey personality, host of The Fine Print. The 10th episode for Season 1 dropped today, The Fine Print Podcast. Be sure and check it out. This one's all about Robin Hood. And we're not talking about a guy with a band of merry men. We're talking about an app here that has been quite controversial and has pretty much been ripped to shreds by a whole bunch of people and is in real serious trouble. Yeah.

And we actually talked to Kate Rooney from CNBC, a tech reporter, and she really unpacked this for us along with Jerry Walsh at FINRA because they fined them $70 million, the biggest fine ever levied against anyone. And it was for good reason. And so we unpack what's going on with Robinhood and if you should be putting your money there and what your options are when it comes to DIY investing. Merry Band of Thieves, is that what it is? That sounds right.

It's been a while. Robinhood's old school. Yeah. There you go. Check it out? That sounds right. It's been a while. Robin Hood's old school. Yeah. There you go. Check it out. Check it out. Be sure and do that. Call us here.

We'll talk to you today about your life and your money. Alexandria is with us in Canada. Hi, Alexandria. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my question for you is around housing. I'm willing to move, but having a difficult time deciding what to do. I'm 28 years old. I'm from Vancouver, Canada. I recently graduated with my degree, so I make $40 an hour now. I've been living on my own for 10 years, but before now, I've never made more than $35,000. I live in a very small, dark basement suite. There's no natural lighting, but it's what I could afford while I was in school. My rent was 50% of my income before, $25,000. But my housing situation is having a negative impact on my mental health. Again, it's just very dark and small, and it's really negatively impacting me, but I am not able to find anything else that seems like a smart choice financially.

The cheapest basement suite I can find right now is $1,300. I currently pay $980. Moving to a different town seems silly because I make as much as you can make with my degree. And so if I moved somewhere else, I'm likely to make less money. I tried to get pre-approved for a mortgage, but my finances weren't high enough. I haven't made enough money. And so I just don't really know what to do. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I can't find a rental that's feasible. I can't buy. Where I'm living right now is really making my mental health suffer. And yeah, I just don't know what to do.

So why are you looking at basement suites? Have you looked at just an apartment? She lives in a basement suite. Yeah, but you said you looked at another one, and there are 1,300. Yeah, I mean, it's all the same. I would live anywhere. Okay. Well, you've made $40 an hour. Do you have any debt? So I have student loans taken out and I have $31,000, but I also have the full amount sitting in an investment right now. Like in a brokerage account? It's non-retirement? Yeah. So I have $35,595 in my investment right now and I owe $31,681 in student loans. So I have like $4,000 technically that's mine.

If you actually, you're going to cash out and pay those student loans off today? I know that's what you would teach, but the investment's doing really well. But you're broke. I'm confused. Why did you call us for help if you don't do what we teach? Because I'm really interested in your advice about my housing situation specifically. Well, the housing situation gets tied into your debt and how much money you have and how much margin you have. Could you afford this $1,300 in rent if you didn't have any debt? No, even if I paid the student loan back, I think I'd still be

in the same position because I'm just basing it off my income only. Would you be willing to get a roommate? I've had roommates before until the last year. I've lived on my own for 10 years, and I'm just really feeling like at this point in my life, I need to prioritize living on my own to ensure that i prioritize my wellness i've lived with over like 40 let me help you being broke is going to mess with your wellness too yeah it is so something's got to give here you can't just make up your own rules and call it wellness um you know you can't you get you if you want to move out of the basement i don't really blame you for that uh but you're probably going to have a roommate or you're want to move out of the basement, I don't really blame you for that.

But you're probably going to have a roommate. Or you're going to move to a different city, and you're going to investigate what you can make in a different city where there's a lower market with real estate, but probably a lower market on wages is not necessarily wrong. What's your degree in? Child and youth care counseling. So it's similar to social work. Yeah.

Well, it probably will not be dramatically different if you move to a real estate market that is way cheaper i don't let's say 25 cheaper i doubt your wages drop 25 in that marketplace so i think you investigate working in a different city that's less expensive vancouver is one of the more expensive cities in the world i mean you're talking like new york city here chicago miami these are these are you know la san francisco vancouver it's on the list toronto right these are major metropolitan centers in the world and very very expensive to live in and child care and social work area is probably very difficult to make a go with that so you get to decide which of these things you're not going to do but you can't do all of them just because you want to so i'm not going to live in the basement i am going to have a roommate and i am going to move or i'm not going to live in the basement and i'm not going to have

a roommate and i'm going to move even further out you get to decide but you don't get to make math up because you have and call it wellness because being broke is also going to affect your wellness your mental health uh it's stressful it's unbelievably anxiety ridden there's all kinds of problems around it so you know i don't blame you for wanting to move out of the basement but you can't put 73 boundaries on all this decision and still end up with a smart decision. That's what your pinch is. And you called up wanting our advice on stuff when you already don't take our advice, which is also illogical. So I don't know why our advice on real estate works when it doesn't work on the other stuff.

So pay your stupid student loan off, get a roommate, and move to a rural community. But you're probably not going to do any of those. Yeah, and I'm doing the math here, Dave. And if she's making $40 an hour and she's working full-time, it's about $76,000 a year. So even after taxes, she can afford a $1,300 apartment if she got out of debt and if she had her money back with her. But she's doing it her way with her own plan, and I wish her the best. But it's not going to work out and the wellness part like you're mentioning the best thing you can do for self-care is get yourself

debt-free well and and start putting reasonable boundaries in your life that are doable uh you know open loops are what bring anxiety meaning un decisions that are not made, decisions where you leave things hanging in your brain that you don't have a loop on, you haven't closed the loop on, you haven't made the call, the ambivalence is much more stressful than actual hard times. So pick your pain. You're going to have a roommate. You're going to move to a rural area. You're going to live in a basement. Pick your pain. You're going to have a roommate. You're going to move to a rural area. You're going to live in a basement.

Pick your pain. Because one of them is coming, darling. Oh, the third one is financial problems. Pick your pain. One of those four is coming to you. You probably ought to decide that on purpose. That's what I would do. It's a lot less stressful, a lot better for your wellness.

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Today's question comes from Jamie in Florida. My husband and I have been saving for a down payment on our first home. We've almost reached your recommended 20% amount and we'll start house shopping soon. We're so excited about this next chapter in our marriage, but everyone we talk to says that now is the worst time to buy a house. Should we wait until prices start going down before we buy it's a good question jamie what makes you think house prices are going to go down in florida i think the market will calm down and i think it will quit shooting up as fast as it's been shooting up but i don't think they're going to go down

i got my real estate license in 1978 the number of times i've seen real estate prices go down uh is like once 2008 for a little while and not always and not in every market they got soft a few places a few individual houses. Some of the markets had bigger bubbles than others that burst when the 2008 mess hit. But really, I've seen house prices shoot up faster at times than others. I've seen them sit still or go up so little that it felt like they really weren't going up. But go down? Nah, not Florida. I don't going up. But go down? Nah, not Florida.

I don't think so. Now, California, yeah, they go up, they go down. I haven't seen California go down because it's a wicked, weird real estate market. But not Florida. I mean, go back, ask a real estate agent to give you a 50-year, back to the 70s, a 50-year look on Florida real estate and see how many times it actually went down. Now, resort property in Florida might have gone down because you get the, you know, you get the overbuild at Destin and then the crash at Destin and then the overbuild at Destin

and then the crash at Destin. So resort properties do have some volatility. But I'm talking about traditional single-family homes that you're talking about buying, Jamie. I don't think they're going to go down. No, and I think the key here is if you're financially ready, it's going to be a good purchase. Because over time, it will appreciate, like you're saying, Dave. But the key here is most people are not doing this. They're not saving 20% down.

They're not doing the 15-year mortgage, and they're overbuying. They're house poor, and that's the bigger issue I'm seeing here. So if you've got the money, you've got 20% down, and you found that right house for you guys, go for it. Don't wait. When I was a little kid, and they're coming back. You probably go to one. We have these things called barbershops. Oh, yeah.

You go to a barbershop, and you're like a hot. You go to these nice. It's like a cool millennial thing to do. Yeah, it's a bougie barbershop. But hey, Blake Thompson goes there. Yeah, that settles it. That's bougie for sure. But I mean, when I was a little kid, it was more like something like out of Mayberry RFD, right? You know, like Andy and Opie might have wandered in.

And it was like, but all the old men sit around the barbershop with an opinion. And I'll never forget my dad. We were coming out of there one day, and he said, they said I heard are two of the biggest liars on the planet. They said and I heard. And I always thought about that. They're a financial planning firm, too. They said and I heard.

Everyone. But everyone we talked to, everyone is stupid. They said and I heard are, they're just liars, and they're dumb. Everyone's broke. You don't want everyone's opinion on stuff. So I'm with George. If you're ready to go buy a house, go buy a house. Now, take your time.

You don't have to get house fever. You don't have to overpay. You don't have to be rash. You don't have to make an unwise decision. Go slow and steady. There's no huge rush but the uh um you know it time to do it you know if you're ready to do it step on it let's get her done but uh but yeah everyone they said and i heard they're bad folk they're they're bad folk there you go all All right. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're with us. All right. Up next is going to be Matt in Knoxville. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? About seven years ago, my father passed away, and he left an inheritance to me and my sister. Of that, he gave me a lot more than what he had given her. My sister has never been very responsible with money, and what she did end up doing was around $70,000, and it's all gone, and she has nothing to show for it and that type of thing. However, five years before my father died, my mother also died,

and she told me her intention was to split the money between me and my sister 50-50. She didn't tell my sister this, and my sister doesn't know about it. I've been holding on to the money with the intention of being able to do that, and she doesn't ask for anything. See, it's not something where she keeps coming in asking for money, and, you know, I'm telling her no. But I don't want to, I feel like on an ethical level, I'm just not doing the right thing.

Recently, about two months ago, because it's been seven years and I've been sitting on this for a while, I used part of the money that I've been saving for her to get her a car just so I can say I got something. I didn't tell her that it was money that's designated for her because I want to give her a good deal. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop.

Okay, I don't understand. Who was the money left to in the will? It was left to me. That was my father's intention, but my mother had different ideas. So your mother changed your father's will after he died? No, no, no. My mother told me the intentions back in 2009 when she passed away. Okay, intentions are not law.

No, no. I'm asking about the legal title to the money. It's your money, right? Yes. But your mom asked you to give half of it to your sister, but she left it to you. No, well, she left it to my father. So she passed, and then your father left it to you. Yeah, changed my intentions because my sister is not very good with money.

So your father died second? Yes. And what did his will say? His will said to put it exactly how it was. She got about $70,000. In order to make it 50-50, I'd have to give her around another $120,000. And I don't want to give that to her because she's... I don't care what you want. That's not what I'm asking.

What you want is irrelevant. You're breaking the freaking law. You're going to get yourself in trouble. That's not your money. If the will states that it was left to your sister and you are the executor of the will and you've not dispersed to her she's going to sue your butt and take you to the not what i'm saying at all okay not after my mother died my father died second he left the world the way that it was. All I'm saying is the poor woman left the will. Well, what did the will say?

The will gave the money to me in the proportions that I described. So it's all yours? Other than $70,000, yes. So it's not all to you. So it's all except $70,000 to you. Well, the $70,000 was already gone. She already gave it to her. Now, the $70,000, okay.

So it was all left to you. So anything you do for your sister because it was your mother's intention, not because of law, but because it was your mother's intention, is called a gift from you. And you're not obligated to do that at all if it's bringing harm to her. So there's not an ethical quandary at all. Your mother's intention is irrelevant. Your father left a will and left the money to you.

And that's his will, and it was his money because she died first. And so your ethical is to manage the money for you. Now, if you want to be kind to your sister, there's nothing wrong with that. But you don't have an ethical quandary, Matt. That's what I was trying to get to the bottom of. And you don't have a legal quandary. I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. Whew, what a mess.

This is The Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Beth is with us. Hi, Beth. How are you? Hello, Dave Ramsey. It's a pleasure to be here. Good to have you. Where do you live? Iowa City, Iowa. Awesome. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt has Beth paid off?

I paid off $103,000. Good for you. And how long did that take? About six and a half years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Between $58,000 and $84,000. Cool. What kind of debt was the $103,000? It was my mortgage. Yay! Look at it, weird people!

You got it. House is paid for! What's it worth? It's worth around $300,000. Awesome. And it all belongs to Beth. Completely mine. How's that feel? It is unbelievable. It is just

an amazing feeling. Don't have a payment in the stinking world. Don't have a care in the world. Not anybody telling you what to do and make an $84,000. Life is good. Well done. Thank you Not anybody telling you what to do and making 84 grand life is good. Well done. Thank you. What do you do for a living? I'm a physical therapist.

Oh, good. Okay. Good for you. We've got quite a PT business going. That's good. Yeah. Good for you. Awesomeness.

So what started you on this Ramsey journey six and a half years ago? Well, it goes back a little bit further. In 2008, my husband wanted me to um do the dave ramsey uh financial peace class at our church and i said no i don't want to do that that's stupid um so he got really smart and in the summer as our kids were playing outside he would turn on his truck and turn on the dave ramsey show so all summer evenings i spent hours outside with my kids listening to you on the Dave Ramsey show and by that fall I was all in so we took it in the 2008 right before the crash which I'm so thankful for

he was a painting contractor it really probably saved us quite a bit of heartache at that time because we were on that path and we knew how to budget my life had a little bit of a hiccup. He and I separated in 2014. I had three kids, and I moved into a house into town. And we took the equity from the house. I took my equity from the house and put it in my current house, and I had $90,000 left to pay, and then a house would be mine. So my goal was to do it in 10 years. I did it in six and a half. So I have a house completely paid off. I

am completely debt free. And life is good. I love it. Well, congratulations. That's amazing. Wow. Very, very well done. You had a lot of life transition happen. I did. And then you went, we're doing this thing. What was that catalyst that really made you go, you know what, I don't want to have a mortgage for 15 or 30 years. I'm doing it way sooner. I think I was, you know, when the divorce happened, I had some of your financial planners who I'd had been working with and he kind of said, just take two years off and just figure out your new normal. And I really appreciate him for doing that because it did take me a while to find my new normal. And then when I came out of that new normal, I just kind of each year met with him and we just set goals up. And I just finally said, you know what? I just

really want to be debt free it just is going to free me up it's going to allow me to do things with my kids and my life that I can't you know and then when COVID hit it really showed me even more so single income lost part of my income because of COVID I work in health care so it really just fired me up I made the goal of 2020 paying off $20,000 on my loan. Of course, in February, my income dropped. But through God's grace and budgeting and my kids' support, I actually paid off $21,000 that year. And so I am just thankful for that.

I struggled. You know, we pinched pennies. I just really did it. And it just kind of showed me I could do it. And at that point, it was like, you know what, I'm all in. I kind of scraped and found money. And in May of this year, I just threw it all in and I said I was done. Finished it.

Yeah. Boom. Just like that. Yes, like that. You're a hero, girl. Thank you. Well done. Very well done.

Thank you. So who were your biggest cheerleaders? You know, Mike, I did it for my kids as well as for myself. Early on, I didn't really tell them about it probably the last three years i really brought them on board they're old enough to kind of understand that um they all were required to get a's in your personal finance class that they said that they had to go through in high school it didn't matter about grades except for that class they all had to have an a so they've seen me live it so bringing them on and just sharing them what my goal was,

I think kind of brought us closer together and made it real real for me. So they were my biggest supporters. And they came down with you to cheer you on for the debt-free screen. I couldn't do it without them. I love it. Yeah. It sounds like they were your why, too, along with being cheerleaders. Most definitely.

You know, they say that kids are things you're not taught them. They caught it. My kids have watched me do this. They know where my envelopes are. They know what my envelopes are for. They know we don't go beyond our envelopes. They know I budget every single month. They come up and say, yep, we can live for another month.

I got the budget going. So they have seen me do it. And that's really what I wanted to impart to them is just financial wisdom and financial peace for them because it makes all the world's difference. And as a result, you have a paid for $300 thousand dollar house yeah boom let's go beth i like it well done very well done all right so when people ask you you're weird you have a paid for house i wish i could do that you're so lucky how How do you tell them that they can do it? If they want to get out of debt, if they want to be you when they grow up, how do you tell them to

get out of debt? It's really the budget. And I really hated that B word when I first started this journey, but it is just freedom that way. Once I set the budget, I know where the money's going. And then it's the discipline too. It does take discipline as a single parent, making those decisions. You know, you're in control of the money. You're not necessarily accountable to anyone. It did take a lot of discipline. But I look long-term, you know, that's what life's about is what do I want long-term? I want to be financially secure. I want to travel. I want to make sure my kids have that same foundation. So those are the kind of things that motivated me to stay on this journey. Very good.

Incredible. And the kids are here. They are. They made the journey with you. Yeah. All right. Well, let's get them up here and let them do the scream with you. How old are they?

What are the names and ages? I have Nicole here. She's 22 years old. I have Aaron. He's 20 years old. And Megan, my youngest, she's 18. All right. Very cool.

What a great start. Very, very, very well done. Good stuff. Well, we've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. That's the next chapter in your story because you're going to be a Baby Steps millionaire before you know it. You are on your way, kiddo. Well done.

And a copy of the Total Money Makeover to give away and help somebody get paid forward and get started on their journey. And very good. Way to go, you guys. I love it. Proud of you. stuff beth thank you all right it's beth in iowa city iowa 103 000 paid off house and everything six and a half years making 58 to 84 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free!

Woo! Woo! Woo! That's how it's done right there. Ants trade A's in personal finance class. There you go. Mom of the year. That's it.

Well, yeah, that means they won't be living in her basement. That's very important. That's the secret why that's amazing i love it so well done such a hero that is pretty incredible uh some paid for houses today on the debt-free screen i think we're going to see this trend yeah i think people one of the things people learn from covet is i don't want to be vulnerable i don't want to be um vulnerable weird, wacky stuff that's out of my control out there. And if I'm the third pig in the brick house, not the first pig with the straw, then when the big bad wolf comes by, whatever version of big bad wolf comes by, and there's one comes by about every four or five years, some kind or another, he just huffs and puffs and

you just smile at him and go you silly old wolf you just wave as they pass by the next house house is paid for dude wrong house and uh that this one's not going to fall in we're going to be okay in here and covid was the last one and then there was 2008 and then there was 9-1-1 and then there was whatever i mean there's always something right there's always some pestilence upon the land. And you just need to be ready for the locusts, baby, because they're out there. They're real. The plague's coming.

It is. It is. And it's not that we're not positive. We're just positive that there's a plague coming. It's a different thing. You just got to be ready. These are the only principles that work in wonderful times and good times, and they're the only principles that work in down times.

The only other ones work in one or the other. They work in only down times or they work in only up times. Yeah. And these common sense biblical principles work all the time, and Beth is living proof of that. Very, very, very well done. I love it. I love it.

I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 128.2, you will eat the fruit of your labor. Blessings and prosperity will be yours. Careers are a jungle gem, not a ladder, Sheryl Sandberg said. This is The Ramsey Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. We're talking about your life and your money.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Mackenzie is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Mackenzie. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. Hi, George, as well. I'm very honored and nervous to talk to you both, so go easy on me. How can we help? So my husband and I are celebrating our one-year anniversary today. Yay! Yes, very fun. Thank you. But in this last year, we haven't fully been on the same page as far as debt payoffs. Different mentalities, so we did what we both understood with our money and put it in a savings account.

Because of that, we have $130,000 in savings. And the unfortunate thing is our student loan amount is our only debt. And combined, it is almost $340,000. He is a chiropractor, so the majority of that is from him. And what I know you know about chiropractors is they only really make good money whenever they open their own office. So that's what we're looking to do. But to do that, it's a good chunk of money for all of the equipment, including x-rays, outputting the office to be able to handle the x-ray unit, all of those things. And so part of what we're concerned about is should we take our own personal money to open

that office to prevent going into further debt with a business loan? But also, how do we protect our liability and assets? As well as we are also in a transition where I'm losing my job at the end of the year and would be looking for a career change that's not necessarily stable. So we're just kind of in this weird place where we don't necessarily know what to do with this money now that he's a little bit more on board with paying off debt, but all these transitions make him nervous. So what does he make this year as a chiropractor?

He makes $70,000 now. I make $60,000, and we both are a real estate team and we made around 50 to 60 for the years. I've been just around 200 for the year. You did what with real estate? What? Oh, we are a real estate team and so we're going to make around 60,000 doing that part-time. That's your side job? He makes 70 by himself. Yes. He made 70 as a000 as a chiropractor. You all made $60,000 doing real estate, and you made... $60,000. $60,000 in addition to that. Yes, sir.

So... $190,000, did I do that right? Yes. Okay. And you guys are how old? I'm 28. He's 31. Okay.

And how long have you all been listening to this show? I've been a long-time listener. He's very new. We just finished FPU, which has really gotten him on board with debt payoff. Well, I don't think right now is the time to start a business. I'm going to be honest. I mean, you guys have done well with your savings, but you've got a pile of debt to clean up here. And the good news is

you have a huge shovel. And so if I'm you guys, this debt is going to be gone in three years. I'm going to throw so much money at this thing, clear out the savings other than your three to six months emergency fund. And you guys got to be on the baby steps and get rid of this thing before we go start our own practice okay our system didn't change all that has changed in the equation is that now he has seen our system that you knew ahead of time and our system is of course avoid debt and pay cash for things as you go and you knew that right i know that yes yeah and so the chances of me telling you to open a chiropractic office and go in debt to do it are zero i would never do that ever under any circumstance what about using our own money i wouldn't do it until you get the debt paid off because you can be debt free in three years you just got married you ain't married a whole year you have time and you've already put

130 000 away already so i would use the same energy to just finish up the debt and then save up the money to open the chiropractic office with cash. Okay. So from that, like pivoting from there, with me losing my job and changing career fields, how do we approach our savings account? So it wasn't necessarily for all of us to protect ourselves with that? Well, listen, you made $60,000 and $70,000. You made $130,000 without you having a job.

Right? Right. Okay. I think you can probably skip by. He said sarcastically. Okay. Well, you can struggle through on $130,000 while you look for a job. So set aside a standard emergency fund.

You got $130,000 in savings? Right. Okay. So you're calling to ask what we would do if I woke up in your shoes. Where I want you to be is to own a debt-free chiropractic office and be making $200,000 a year on that, and I want you to have your career blossoming and be making another $200,000 when you're 30.

How old are you now? 28. Okay, well, when you're 34 then, okay? It's going to take you a couple years to do all of this, right? And that's where I want you to be. But between now and then, what you're doing will feel foolish to idiots in the world and idiots in the chiropractic world in particular because they're all about how much

debt they can go in and there's this endless pool of debt because they have this endless desire to go and do something that they're not yet ready to do and i work with them all the time broke chiropractors are everywhere they're everywhere and because they pay so much for a degree that is not a medical degree, and they don't earn the income of a medical doctor. And right, wrong, or indifferent, that's the realities economically. And so $70,000 to $100,000 is a chiropractor unless they own their own office, and then they can get their income up to $200 doing the stuff.

But otherwise, you're making less than that, and you paid as much as you would have paid to get an M.D., to get the chiropractic degree. And so that's the world you all live in and so in other words his contemporaries or what his contemporaries or peer group does is not a good indicator of wise you follow me yeah he definitely wouldn't redo it if he could go back yeah but we're there now i'm not picking on you for there i'm just my point is that the group that is, you don't do it the way the group he knows does it. That's a bad idea. The way you do it is you pay cash for the opening of the office

after you knock out this debt. So I would put $30,000 aside as my emergency fund. I'd throw $100,000 at the $300,000. Now I've got $200,000 to go. Let's be done with that in about two more years, year and a half or two to two and a two to three years you're 100 debt free then you throw another 100 grand aside and open his office and you will open it with different equipment than if you did with borrowed

money and you can make a good living and you can reinvest back into it as you go and grow your equipment list and grow your office and even grow other chiropractors working for him and begin to build a sizable practice layer upon layer cumulative effect of this and you're going to be in really good shape but you need to be the tortoise and not the hare you cannot borrow your way into prosperity in this setting you're going to create yourself a mess and you already knew that i'm just saying out loud what you already knew mckinsey so i'm giving you permission to be you you already knew that. I'm just saying out loud what you already knew, Mackenzie. So I'm giving you permission to be you. You already knew all this. And the thing is, this is a four-year journey,

and it might not be exciting as, hey, in three months we could go start our own practice. But the problem is you're still going to be broke because now you're going to go into debt for the practice, have $340,000 in student loans, and no income is going to feel like enough. And it changes how you manage the practice. And it changes the equipment you buy because it's all done with borrowed money and under stress. And it sets you up for failure. It sets you up for a longer term to become financially free as a result of all this work.

So you can make a really good living as a chiropractor, but you've got to do it smart, and you've got to do it a different way than most of all this work. So you can make a really good living as a chiropractor, but you've got to do it smart, and you've got to do it a different way than most of them do it. And it sounds like you've got a knack for real estate between the two of you, too. So I can push on that button for sure and then continue to work your other career, Mackenzie. Be patient. You've been married one whole year. You've got time. You've got time.

You've got time. You're going to be okay. Do it smart and do it gradual and do it slow, please. George, good show today. Fun times. Good job, James and Kelly in the booth. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.