The Ramsey Show - App - You Can't Out-Earn Stupidity! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and a paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Mitch in Rockford, Illinois starts off this hour. Hi, Mitch. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Chris. Great to be here. Thanks, man. Good to have you. How can we help? Well, my wife and I are really excited. We just hit baby steps four, five, and six this month.

So we're really happy about that. Really thankful for your wisdom. We actually have kind of a personal goal. We want to pay off our mortgage in a couple of years. So by 2023, we want to be fully debt-free. The interesting thing is this month, actually last week, we actually got a surprise gift. It's kind of an early inheritance money from our grandparents. And we're kind of just wondering, it's $20,000. We have $63,000 left on our mortgage. And we're kind of wondering, what do you think we should use it for? Should we put the whole lump sum towards the house and pay off our debt sooner? Or we have kind of an older car.

It's got about 205,000 miles on it. It's in the shop a lot more than we would like, but I think we can make it last another year or two. Also, my wife really wants to remodel our kitchen on the cheap. It would be about two or $3,000. So I kind of see we either put it towards the house fully or maybe put it towards a cheaper car and a kitchen remodel and then use whatever's left over on the house as two options or maybe a third option I'm not thinking about. So just figure to give you a call. Love the show. Long-time listener.

And see if you had any. Yeah. All of those fit within the baby steps. You know, you can, in baby steps four, five, and six is when you would upgrade a car if you want, when you could do a little small remodel if you want. And obviously anything you can find extra you throw on the house. And sometimes people are more hardcore than others about getting the house paid off. So how expensive a car are you talking about?

Sure. It would just be a used car, maybe spend $8,000 on it, something like that. Our car is worth about $2,000. What's your household income? We're about $50,000 to $60,000 net. So $10,000 to the kitchen and the car and $10,000 on the house? Is that one plan, right? Well, it would probably only take about $3,000 for the kitchen.

We wouldn't do a full remodel. Well, you said $2,000 and you said $8,000 on the car. That's $10,000. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. Yep. Yeah. And looking at this, Mitch, I'm going to tell you something that Dave taught me many years ago. And it's kind of the pie graph approach, which is what he was just kind of walking you through.

Whenever you have money coming in that wasn't expected or it's a bonus, you want to look at it and say, what can I use? Right. And then what do I what do I put toward my future. And so in looking at this, if you did eight on the car and you did three on the kitchen remodel, that's still going to leave you, right, $9,000 that you could throw at the mortgage. Now, you look at that and you think you've hit three areas and made progress instead of just picking one. Right.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's really helpful. Here's the danger. You've got to set a serious dollar amount on the car, right? So if you're looking to spend eight, you're buying a car for five to six grand because you've got tax tags and title. That's first. Number two, this kitchen remodel. You and your wife need to pinky swear that we're only spending three.

We don't need any uh bracket creep here yeah that's right you may need to talk to her more than me but scope creep yeah well what i might do is um uh well you know you just need to budget out all three of them and you need to have a real adult conversation about we're not doing this. Or we can do nothing now and put it all on the mortgage, and then we'll just, as soon as this mortgage gets done, then we'll do the remodel. There's nothing wrong with that idea either, by the way. Sure. The $10,000 throws your mortgage repayment off by about a year, probably.

You're debt-free on the mortgage a year later if you do the car and the kitchen, right? Right. That's kind of what we were projecting. Yeah. That's what I would guess with your income. So, you know, none of these are dumb, but I think Chris has hit the Achilles heel of the discussion, and it is scope creep on the car and on the kitchen. Because a a three thousand dollar kitchen remodel can be six and about an eye blink oh yes and a car purchase uh oh it's just a little bit more and then all of a sudden you got nothing going towards the mortgage

now that i would not recommend right i'm going to put you in the hot seat you're in mitch's position this twenty thousand came in what does dave ramsey do when we were at that stage it would have been 100 on the mortgage i know it that's exactly me too because because we were just more hardcore we so desperately wanted to be rid of any debt we didn't want to be slave to anyone anymore but jesus we were so over these freaking banks i hated them i still hate them i mean to this day i'm still pissed you know and it just so it was that it was that level of uh ferociousness right that would have driven that on through but i again i i uh uh that's an honest answer an authentic answer of what i would have done and probably what I would do today. Right.

Because I know the joy of being debt-free more than I know the joy of remodeling a kitchen or buying a car. And I'm a car guy. Right. You know, I love my cars. But the – and again, but that's – but I'm not going to impugn that upon her. Right. Or him. Right.

They're fitting within the guidelines that we use and our guidelines are hey this is the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy right and sometimes folks need that a little relief in the car front they need a little relief in the kitchen yeah they do in order to get the energy to plow on through the finish line right now let me ask you this do you give more weight to the person whose side of the family had the loss meaning if it was their life you never do no okay i always wondered that do you give a little bit more credence to where the inheritance came from no okay no if it's going to come into our house it's our hours it's our money and so if i get an inheritance it's me and sharon make the decision together sharon gets an

inheritance we make the decision together get a gift from a family member we make the decision together uh if we get a found money which you know honestly sharon has not worked outside the home and earned any income personally for 35 years so you know we have had an income for 35 years that i earned that's right so but so we've had to be real careful about well i make all dadgum money so i'll do what i want you know i could go there real easy yeah uh and be a little bit justified except that that's the wrong way to live a marriage it's the wrong way to live a life it's the wrong way to build wealth it's the wrong way to view it once it comes into my house it's ours it's ours that's good and that's and again i think that's important for people out there to really begin to think and go yeah it's us don't have that pronoun problem it's dangerous

yeah i and your nah speak french we we we we that's it oh i love it chris hogan ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book everyday millionaires if you don't have a copy of it you probably ought to pick one up. It'll change your life. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses,

and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I we have discovered among the Ramsey tribe, the Ramsey listeners out there, that about half of you, when it comes to tax time, have a very simple return. And you should not pay $200 or $300 to an ELP, a a tax elp to have your taxes prepared you should pay someone that or more if you have a complicated return because you're going to make that back now i have a very complicated return and so i pay a lot more than that but it makes me money back every year

because i've got a guy looking over my shoulders and i don't know anything about taxes i know a little bit but it's just enough to be dangerous and that's a good way to lose it. But if you're just filing a simple return to get your refund, the electronic file is the best way to do it. It really is, Dave. And unfortunately, out there, you can get overcharged and upsold. And here's what I mean. If you end up owing money, you've got companies that will come after you trying to sell you a credit card, trying to give you a loan, trying to hit you with all these things. And that's how they make their money. And it's actually really kind of a bounty on your head.

So I love what we've got this year. We've got a top-notch. We've got a choice. You have a choice. Basically, TurboTax is about 70% of the e-file market. Is it really? Yeah. They own tens of millions of people use TurboTax to file.

And in general, the thing operates very well. It operates very well. But as you dig into it and what they're doing with TurboTax, they just paid $8 billion to buy Credit Karma. And they're pairing that together with TurboTax. So, basically, they're using TurboTax not as a product line but as a funnel to get you into their system because they want to sell you debt. Yes. And they literally, in their own corporate presentation, said we put a bounty when the customer signs up for a credit card.

We get a bounty. Now, you know what a bounty is? Oh, yes, I do. That's when you capture or kill a person or an animal. And get paid. And you get, for that coyote hide, you get I do. That's when you capture or kill a person or an animal. And get paid. And you get, for that coyote hide, you get a bounty. So if you want to put your hide on the block. No, no thank you.

No thank you. Yeah, that's what's going on. And that's the way these companies look at it. And so you just, you know, again, the actual product itself, there's nothing wrong with it. And the company's not evil. They're just in the business not of taxes. They're in the business of selling you debt. Well, and that's the difference between them and us.

At Ramsey Solutions, our goal is to help you with money to help you be able to build wealth. And so what we want to do is invite you to come over, check out Ramsey Smart Tax. The other guys charge, it's half of what other guys charge. You can file your taxes for $17. That's going to beat the other guys charge it's half of what other guys charge uh you can file your taxes for 17 dollars that's going to beat the other guys prices hands down and then if you need a little support you can upgrade to the premium version for 37 and get live access right where you are which is amazing uh so and if you've got a complicated return you go to one of our eops definitely have a full-on review complete return that's. That's right. Done that way.

But if you've got a simple return, $17 is the way to go. Now, Ramsey Smart Tax is brand new this year. It's brand new. We put it out just for beta testing and everything last year and ran about 5,000 folks through it. But this year, we'll have millions in it. And it's powered by TaxSlayer. It's a family-owned company down in Augusta, Georgia. Yes.

And we've been working with them for a year and a half. They're wonderful people. The product, it looks, acts, and feels like Ramsey because it is. But the guts down under the hood is those guys. Yeah. And they've got 50 years of experience. So you've got two ways to do your taxes that we would recommend. And it's where I will send all of my friends.

And it's not to jump into the hoop and get set up for a bounty on your head, okay? But it's go to SmartTax, and that's the $17 file or an upgraded file for $35. But there's not a bunch of add-ons. There's not a bunch of gotchas. We don't have another agenda. Just going to help you get your taxes filed. It's real simple. That's right.

Real simple, real clean. And I know it's kind of a hassle if you've used one of the other people like h&r and their software is the same as turbo they're trying to set you know look at what they're really doing yeah they're big on the refund loans and those refund loans are dadgum payday lenders yes they are i mean the rate on these refund loans is ridiculous it is so be careful if your hand if you've been if you've been playing with snakes you're gonna get bet and you could get away from them it takes a little trouble the first year to move it all over to something else i know that yeah but it's only 17 that's right and do the trouble once

and not and nobody's gonna put a bounty on you that's right and dave and you don't get hit with unnecessary emails those mailers the phone calls again there's no reason to be in that environment get in an environment that's trusted and protected. Ramsey Smart Tax will help you get it done. Yeah, and so here's what we do. It's real simple. You're either going to go with an ELP and have a complicated return filed and do it properly, or you're going to use a simple Ramsey Smart Tax software, $17.

You really can't beat this. Text the word TAX to 33789 and we're going to hook you up with the help you need. That's TAX to 33789 and I will make you a solemn promise. Not a single soul will ask you to take

out a credit card as a result of doing this. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. guaranteed yes not a single soul there's not a chance you know it's interesting so many companies have discovered how wealthy they can become how much money they can make off of the consumer if they go in the debt business the credit card business and so it's not unusual to look at one of these retailers pre-pandemic and say, why does Target have the Target card? Why does whoever, Macy's, have a Macy's card?

Why do they have a store card? Why does Best Buy have a Best Buy card? Because at the end of the day, they make more money on the credit and the issuing of debt. 90 days, same as cash? That's right. They make more money on the debt than they do on the actual sale of the clothing or the television or the whatever. And so, you know, all of these retail operations are a credit card operation with some stuff out front.

I mean, Victoria's Secret, you pay, you know, you think they're in the business of selling tiny underwear. They're really not. They're really in the business of credit. If you work at Victoria's Secret and you do not put out a certain number of credit cards every shift, they don't care how many thongs you sold. They want to know how many credit cards you put out because they make their money on the credit cards. Oh, Dave, that was one of the things that ended up chasing me out of the banking industry because it was one of those.

It was all about the ancillary things that you added on to that. And so they kept track of the number of credit cards each day, the day. And if your branch wasn't on the list, it was an issue. Yeah. They know what business they're in because they know where the money is that's right and so you know it's you know yeah we've got all this stuff out front you can have a savings account a checking account or you can you know you can buy your underwear here or you can get you a suit of clothes over here you can

get your television over here but really if you peel back their financials yeah they make more money on the sale of debt than they do on the other stuff and turbo tax is exactly the same way but uh i could here's the thing about ramsey it's uh you may not like it you may not want to do it seventeen dollars may sound like a lot of money to you i don't know but 100 of the time you are not going to get offered a debt product as a result of using one of our products. So we don't put bounties on the heads of our customers. They're not coyotes. I cannot believe they use that name, that word bounty, corporately like that.

That's unbelievable. So that's scary. Don't go there. You can do it a better way, a safer way. Bounty, bonus. I could have come up with a lot of other words, but bounty. I feel like a coyote. Bounty hunter.

You guys all howl out there. You got a bounty on your head. No, thank you. You feel like a beaver pelt? Come on. Step it up. Come on, man. You feel like a rabbit?

A little scared rabbit? No, thank you. Rascally a rabbit? A little scared rabbit? No, thank you. Rascally a rabbit. Poor TurboTax. Yeah. They actually have a good product, but they just got sidetracked with trying to screw you guys with that. And it just messed them up.

And so along comes little old Ramsey, and we won't have 40 million people use Ramsey SmartTax this year like they did. We know that. But if we can save just a few of you from a bounty. That's a good thing. That is a good thing. The things you learn on the Dave Ramsey Show. Text TAX to 33789 and you can learn about Ramsey Smart Tax or our tax ELPs. Tax 233-789. Arrrr! We'll be right back. Jeremy and Heather are with us from Dallas, Texas.

It says on my screen, you guys are debt-free. Congratulations. Thank you. Well done. How much have you paid off? $46,854 in 20 months. Love it. And your range of income during that time?

We're 90 to $143,000. Wow. what do y'all do for a living well i'm in hr and jeremy drove an ice cream truck that'll work that'll work so what kind of debt was your 47 000 um so we had medical debt credit cards two cars a loan to pay off some taxes we were just pretty normal yeah we had uh two student loans as well yep yeah debt everywhere then wow and so you guys have the audacity to become debt free while we're in a pandemic yeah like how'd you do that how did you do it? We were extremely blessed.

Yeah, like you went out and killed something drug at home. Yeah, yeah. Like you're driving an ice cream truck during a pandemic. I love this guy. Yeah. You're my hero, man, because I want some ice cream, too. But anyway, so what got all this started 20 months ago? So we actually started because I was working for a major pharmacy retailer as a store manager, and I was actually working the counter.

And this gentleman comes up with his daughter, and they're arguing over ice cream and Reese's peanut butter cups and which one has the coupon. So I asked them if that was their envelope system because I'd heard about you, and we hadn't really done anything with it. And he said yes, and that he taught financial peace at a church plant that they had just started. So we actually ended up going to their church and attending FPU. Wow.

So it was kind of crazy. That's unbelievable. So it all started with a conversation. It's amazing. It's amazing what can happen. You said you had heard of Dave and that seed got planted, but she needed to get to that point, you know, and I love to hear people having that story of, no, you know what, we're going to do it.

So, Jeremy, what'd you learn about your wife throughout this process? Well, I learned that she's pretty on point with whatever she has in mind. She is ready to do. And Heather, what did you learn about Jeremy? He is just there ready to back it up. And if he thinks that my idea is crazy, he'll sit down and be like, let's talk about this. But together we make a pretty perfect team. We just dove into it head first, and he's been amazing. That's fantastic.

So, Jeremy, she comes home from the store and says a guy with an envelope system invited us to church, to his class. What did you say? Well, I said, well, let's get to know the church a little bit better. So we went to the church, and we got into it a little bit better. I got introduced to Kevin Brown and his family, and they were really, really great people. Just the church is all around just filled with great people. And so we were like, okay, let's sign up for the class.

And sure enough, about three or four other families were in there with us, and we followed it pretty much to the T. Yep. Well, that's the secret. I'm telling you, when you have a recipe that works, I tell people all the time, don't mess with the ingredients. Just follow that thing. And that's exactly what you all did.

So for families out there that are right now up to their eyeballs in debt, what motivation, what would you tell them? Is it possible for them to get out of debt? Absolutely. It's the freedom. It's the freedom that you feel after you get out of debt that you're not locked down to anybody else except for maybe your mortgage or whatever you have left. But, yeah, that's it. You're really free of financial tie-down to anybody. How long have you guys been married?

16 years. You ever been debt you guys been married? 16 years. You ever been debt free before now? No, not really. No. Pretty incredible. How's it feel? It's amazing.

Um, Jeremy's in his off season and we've been able to live on our savings and still able to help and do the things that help people during the pandemic. So that has been such a blessing to us. It's so freeing knowing that you're able to help people in their worst time. Yeah, because we've been those people that we've had to go to like the church or to our friends for help. And they've, you know, luckily been helpful to us with finances.

And so now we can return the favor tenfold. And it's just an amazing feeling. Absolutely. Well done, guys. So proud of you. Yes. Who are your biggest cheerleaders? August and Clinton from our support group, Kevin Brown and his family, and our families.

And my friend Patty, my husband's family. Did anybody tell you you were crazy? Anybody look at you side-eyed? You know, no. We had so many people who were more like yes you're going to do this and we actually had two of our friends now start the total money makeover and are doing their own debt-free journey i love it that's fantastic you motivated other people to get started i want you all to keep telling people about it keep keep shining the light of hope so others can get started as well

very proud of you too very proud i can all start with an argument over the envelope at the counter that's so fun that is so fun i love that and the irony is like a commercial Reese's or ice cream and the irony is is Jeremy drives an ice cream truck so ice cream yeah is in this this is an ice cream story right here and my mouth is watering you guys are incredible. We got a copy of Chris's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is definitely the next chapter in your story. We're so proud of you guys.

Heather and Jeremy and Micah in Dallas, Texas. $47,000 paid off in 20 months, making $90,000 to $143,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream all right one three two one we're debt-free yeah way to go that's how that works oh man you gotta love it unbelievable people we are in a pandemic how in the world do you pay off debt in the middle of a pandemic i'm gonna tell you it ain't an accident it's intentional you get your heart right you get your focus right and you just commit you go you don't

need anyone's permission you don't need anyone's vote you get to decide for you and your future and that's exactly what they did you don't need any likes on facebook nope don't need a retweet thumbs up thank god yeah all them little goofy things i don't need to be influenced nope you just got to go get up off your butt get up off your assumptions and go do it i mean you just got to do this man and it And it's really, it is a series of choices. It really is. I've never heard get off your assumptions. I like that. I'm going to use that one.

Well. But we get to, Dave, and that's the thing that I want people to understand and hear. You know what's interesting about that couple? Did you just feel that they were both smiling and happy the whole time? Now, oftentimes when people are doing their debt-free scream, they're smiling and happy, but you kind of got the feeling that they're those people anyway. Yeah, they are. Yep.

And so this was just like, okay, let's do something fun. Yep. It wasn't like, oh, God, this is going to be so hard. I don't know if we're going to, I'm going to die if I don't get to go to a restaurant or get a new pair of shoes. Dave is channeling his inner Eeyore. Oh. Oh. Yeah.

Well, I mean, this is what people do. They figure out a way. We figure out a way to sabotage ourselves. Yeah, we do. And instead, these guys are like, hey, let's skip right through this. Yep. And the thing that I heard. 20 months.

We're done. And the thing that I heard also, Dave, was the team. The team. You could hear they together on this thing. And I'm going to tell you, boy, you get locked arms, moving in the right direction, you're going to make some stuff happen. And there's not a marriage that works together on money that is not a good marriage. It is very, very rare to hear somebody that has a great partnership on getting out of debt and wealth building that doesn't have a great marriage. Now, sometimes the marriage grows while you're doing that.

That's right. It's better. Yeah. Because you've got those communication lines open. This is the Dave Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Lawrence is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Lawrence. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you?

Great, man. What's up? So I had a question, and I wanted to see your two cents on this. I'm 27, no kids, no debt, and I live in Los Angeles. I'd like to purchase a house soon with a 20% down payment, preferably, but houses in like a nice, safe suburban area are roughly $800 to a mil. Sure. And I wanted to see if you recommend that I focus on an aggressive down payment with my savings or prioritize retirement investing first and whatever excess that I have after that go to the down payment on the house.

But in turn, that'll delay how soon I could purchase this property. We have folks do it both ways. Once you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund in place, that's baby step three. Then sometimes we call it baby step 3B, and people just pause right there and pile up cash for a down payment, which is what you're saying. Be intentional about that.

You don't have to get to 20% down on your first home. The benefit of doing that, though, is, of course, you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance. And so as young as you are, that might be the best route to go. I wouldn't not do retirement for more than about three years. Can you get what you want to do done in three years? So I basically have been in my career for about four years uh i just started putting money into my rough recently last year uh so that's basically how uh where i'm at with retirement so now i'm saying if you stop retirement and you pile up cash for three years for a down payment can you

get where you want to be yes okay what's your what's your household income lawrence uh you know i'm in commission sales right so on a bad year like 150 to 200 on a good year 300 plus wow yeah that's yeah you can definitely get where you are you can yeah i would do that and you said you're what you said you're 23 27 27 i wish i was. I wish I was 23. That would be better. Well, I mean, if you start saving for retirement at age 30 and you go from age 30 to age 65 and you save, you know, 15% of your income through that whole period of time, you're going to be very, very wealthy. Yes, you are.

And so take three years with an emergency fund in place first and save up your down payment and then kick in once you buy the house. Then from then on, you you're putting 15 aside for retirement and beginning to pay the house off early with anything above that you can find in the budget that's right and lawrence i'm going to tell you the things that will block you from getting to that is you going to look at stupid and what i mean is the car or the truck or the boat so what you really want to do is really commit to buying this home and having that down payment and making that job number one and avoiding and blocking out anything else that leads you down the path toward debt, buddy. You're like a unicorn to be 27, making a great income

and as focused as you are. You're doing really good. He really is. Very well done. And the other warning is those of us that are great salespeople, me included uh most of us have kind of an abundance mentality versus a scarcity mentality that rachel talks about and know yourself know your money and um the tendency i had for a long time was i could always make money uh and and the mistake i made was i always thought i could out earnearn my stupidity. I need to. Gosh. You can't out-earn your stupidity. So you've got to really get, like Chris said, get dialed in on what the goal is,

just like when you've got a sales goal or anything else. What is the goal? And anything else is, nope, I'm in training. And you know the other stupid idea before I got connected with you is I kept saying when my income gets higher, I'll get more serious. i'll give more than my generosity will go up yeah i'll i'll i'll pay a full tithe it's not true i'll pull a pay a full tithe when my income goes right and it just never seems to get there no chris is with us in fort walton beach hi chris welcome to the day ramsey show good morning how are you guys doing today? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Got a question. So, I'm 59. I've got about 315 in my 401k. I've been putting the max and the make-up contribution in there for the last three years. Good. I just sold a piece of property, so I'm going to have some income from that. Now, I have a 160 note on the house at 2.25, 15 years left on the note. I'm debating on whether to pay the house off, then I would totally be able to howl like the rest of you guys and say I'm totally debt-free. There you go. Of course. Or I could take that money and invest it, because my rate of return from my people that are doing it right now has been averaging about 22% each year.

What's your house worth? It's about $260,000. Okay. Well, if you're not going to pay the house off, you should refinance the house and borrow as much against it as you possibly can and invest all of it okay that not feel weird when i said that well no and because it's the best low interest loan you're ever gonna get but didn't that feel weird to you it felt weird to me to say it didn't it feel like you're going backward didn't it feel like you're going backward what sort of but i mean at the end here's what i would do how much proceeds you get from the rental property when you sold it 200 okay if i woke up in your shoes is how i answer questions

on this show doing this for 30 years i'd write a check it's i jump online as soon as i got off the phone i pay your house off now if you really hate being debt free down in the summer the interest rates are still going to be low and um just go get you another mortgage okay you're not gonna hate it i mean that's what I've been struggling with, because like I said, I am totally debt-free. I took your Financial Peace program years ago. I've had zero credit card debt. I've maintained that.

Yep. And all of that, in spite of the fact that some of the things we taught you in Financial Peace don't feel mathematically correct, all of that has led to you prospering. Mm-hmm. That's correct. And this is one more of them. That's correct.

That's one more of them. Because what is not factored into the spread between what your mortgage interest rate is and the rate of return on your investments is risk. And the sense of well-being that you get with a paid-for home that's going to launch you into the last chapters of your extreme wealth building. So you are going to be 70 years old, and you're going to have $5 million in a paid-for house. That's the trajectory you are on right now. Right.

I think you're going to be okay, man. I do, too. And, buddy, I want you, Chris, to continue to be weird. You see, weird is what caused you to get out of debt. Being weird is what caused you to be willing to sacrifice and let go of that property because you knew that, hey, you can move forward. Continue the path of being weird and pay off that house. Take what you were paying on the mortgage to the home,

and then you can start to kind of build that back up. It was a great question. It is a great question. So here's what we're pushing against, folks. Chris is, and I am, and you are out there. The culture has taught us for two generations that we're always going to owe money to the man. And it's almost like I was watching the movie with Harriet Tubman the other night. And she would go up, and some of the slaves wouldn't leave.

She would come all the way to the south, great danger, great personal danger to herself to get people, you know, to get the slaves on the Underground Railroad. And some of them would say, no, I can't leave. The devil I know is more comfortable than what freedom looks like. And she's right. I'm right here. I can take you to freedom.

I can take you to freedom. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. And, you know, and sometimes it takes the form of an intellectual analysis. Oh, well, you know, you don't want to lose that low interest rate on the mortgage. Or I get points back on my card. But it still is, I'm going to just stay here, Harriet, even though you came south for me.

I'm going to stay. The master's not too mean. He's not too mean. He doesn't whip me that often. And, man, that's exactly what's going on here. It's a spiritual thing, isn't it? It a broken spirit it is who doesn't run when you have a chance to run you have a chance it's a broken spirit that's a good and you and this culture has broken john john and suzy public's spirit out here yeah with these debts and it's just a way of life

you're always going to have a car payment. What kind of fool doesn't have a credit card? You're so weird, Ramsey. I'm a very wealthy weirdo. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.