The Ramsey Show - App - You Don't Earn It Unless You Can Pay Cash for It (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 16, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and a paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Mike is with us in Raleigh, North Carolina, starting off this hour.

Hey, Mike, welcome to the show. Hey, Dave, really great to talk to you you too sir what's up i wanted to get your perspective on what you think is a good ratio or balance between owning traditional investments and owning real estate i think that depends on how much you love real estate. A lot. I love it. Me too. I'm a real estate guy. Mom and Daddy were in the business when I was growing up.

I got my license when I turned 18. My portfolio is probably out of balance, and it's partly because I love real estate. And I'm set up to manage a bunch of it with my son-in-law running our property management operation and my love of it. And I bought a whole bunch of real estate in 08, 09 for 10, 15 cents, 20 cents on the dollar. And then it shot way up in value, obviously. So all of those things have caused me to have way more in real estate than I do in mutual funds. But I've more steadily do in mutual funds uh but i've more steadily invested in mutual funds oddly enough so um uh real estate's been more sporadic

and honestly my real estate as i as i topped out over certain net worth things i was able to do real estate more quickly um and that's just a personal observation. So all that to say, I wouldn't want you to be, well, I don't know. I don't care if you're 100% real estate. Fair. As long as you're smart, as long as you're good at it, you know. We're pretty good at it. It's kind of my business. It's kind of funny your

last caller is quite literally how we start our business a 1500 junker truck you know one guy doing construction work and you know we do over 15 million dollars a year in revenue now so wow pretty sizable you know disposable income wow so you're killing it yeah so you're in that that's the kind of thing that you know i I mean, we're running a $200 million business, so I've got disposable income to throw at real estate, you know. Lately, it's all been going into one building because we built this huge building to put Ramsey in, you know. But before that, I just had, you know, the portion of my income that I set aside that wasn't giving and that wasn't, you know, the portion of my income that i set aside that wasn't giving and that wasn't you know maxed out retirement and uh thus we spend a small portion on lifestyle percentage wise um the

rest of it went into real estate you know i didn't just you know i'd see a piece of property and i had the money and it was an income producing property and i would buy it you know it's that simple so um and i'll you know was actually looking over stuff with our cfo this morning we get this these buildings built on this property we've got now then i'm kind of looking forward to the day when i can do that again because for about five years now four years i've been plowing everything into this other project but anyway all nothing about dave but yes you're in a position to do that i don't mind you being in that you're doing it debt-free i assume yes sir okay and how much do you already own uh about maybe 400,000 in real estate and probably 300,000 in mutual funds yeah okay all right well i mean because your business is on a curve, you're higher.

You'll make more this year than you made the first six years combined kind of thing, right? Absolutely. Yeah, because you're on that kind of curve, you're going to be in a position to where that's going to get oblonged real quick, unless you just plow into mutual funds, which is okay to do if you love mutual funds. I don't mind mutual funds. I just like real estate better. It's more of an imperfect market. I make more money on it.

Right. Yeah. I tend to agree with that. Mutual funds really doesn't get me excited. Real estate does. Yeah. Because I have enough people around me telling me, you know, don't have too much into it. It's too risky, et cetera, et cetera.

I think it's less risky. I think it's less risky i think it's less risky than than mutual funds except but it has a higher hassle factor yes you got to screw with it you know and uh so i'm you know i'm always getting a report on some stupid window that's got to be fixed or a tree that fell or something you know and so there's just a hassle factor i don't get that on mutual funds i just get a check in the mailbox. But if you buy it right, you manage it well, you maintain the property, you do a good job with the tenant management, real estate should make you considerably more than mutual funds, but it's considerably more hassle.

Fair enough? That's absolutely. Thank you. Have fun with it. Eric is with us in Denver, Colorado. Hi, Eric. How are you? Hi, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Yeah, a quick background. I'm 28. I'm married with a daughter. I'm just now starting my fourth year of medical school. And we just recently started Baby Steps 4.

My question to you is should we pause the Baby Steps and save a bunch of cash because we have expenses coming up at the end of this year. It's an unknown amount of expenses. There's a lot of travel during the fourth year of medical school, and we were just wondering if we should pause our business and start the batch. Yes. I don't mind if you don't do anything

in four, five, and six until you finish residency. Especially if you're plowing all that towards doing debt-free. Why is there travel in the fourth year? Are you doing some kind of fellowship? So, I'm doing out-of-state rotations at different universities.

For what purpose? I'm applying into orthopedic surgery. Oh, okay. It's a specialization. Yeah. Okay. I think we lost you, but yeah, I get it. Okay. Sure. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah. You know, what you're doing is you're investing in Eric, and Eric is a really good investment. That's what it amounts to. But pay cash for everything. Manage the expenses. Don't take on debt. And yeah, I'm definitely pausing everything to cause that to happen

while you're in the middle of your education process. But you're not buying anything either. Don't tell me you need a new car and do all this. No, no, you're, you know, this is all we're doing is Eric right now. And later on, there'll be plenty of money to do the other stuff that you want to do if you follow through on this degree field and the specialization you're thinking of so excellent job man very cool open phones at 888-825-5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life your money uh laz is on facebook i'm a long time listener new follower to your podcast with term life insurance how does it affect the life insurance policy I have with my full-time employer?

Should I only have one policy or more? Oh, you can have more than one. Nothing wrong with that at all. I wouldn't have all of my life insurance at my employer because it stays there if you leave. And if you got a diabetes diagnosis, a cancer, heart diagnosis or something, and you weren't insurable and you left, you might not be able to get insurance out there in the cold world. So I don't just have it at the employer.

I always have some on my own as well. And that way, if I end up in an insurable situation, you'd be okay. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is big news, guys. You need to stop and listen. The Fed decided not to raise interest rates. That means you've got a small window of time before rates rise again. Here's the deal. Most people are paying too much interest on their largest expense, their home. So you're freaking crazy if you don't take 10 minutes to call Churchill Mortgage right now and see if they can save you money before rates rise again.

A mortgage through Churchill could save you thousands, or better yet, reduce the time until you're debt-free. Can you imagine how it would feel to no longer have that payment looming over your head every month? Just go to ChurchillMortgage.com or call 888-LOAN-200. Their team of experts will give you more clarity about your options and more peace knowing you're saving significant money in the long run. Call 888-LOAN-200. That's 888-562-6200 or churchillmortgage.com. Mike's in Lansing, Michigan. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, how are you doing, Dave?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Hey, real quick, just want to say thank you for everything that you do. You've changed my personal and the way that we run our business. But I've got a question for you. I own a lawn and a landscape company and a snow company up here in Michigan. And, you know, I'm really having trouble. I've been doing this for about 11 years. I'm having trouble with the caliber employee that we, you know, typically see.

And just how do we find a thoroughbred in a sea of donkeys, if you will? Yeah. um well you have to create a couple of things that are different than all the other lawn care guys um you have to create a different environment and why would someone want to work there okay and part of its pay it's just straight up the more you pay the better person you have a chance to get you know it's that simple. But we were having a discussion the other day when we did an Entree Leadership Theme Hour, Daniel Tardy and I were, he's the executive vice president of that area, with a guy on the air that had an ice cream shop.

And we were thinking of places like Southwestern Books and Chick-fil-A, where what they do is they employ college students. And the reason a high-quality college student wants to do those work, or high school students want to do that work, is the environment that they're in. They're being trained. It's almost as if if you find someone that has sold books for Southwest, you have found someone that can survive in a sales job and prosper in a sales job. It's like a boot camp for selling and so an example might be that if um if families of high character in the lansing area knew mike's landscaping business was a place that their son would work and would be taught how to be a man a man of high character, and a man of work, and the environment was clean

in terms of the character cleanliness. Obviously, you get dirty mowing grass. I'm not talking about that. We get real dirty, yeah. Yeah, I'm not talking about that. But I'm talking about it's not a bunch of filthy mouth, filthy stuff, filthy people doing filthy habits that your kid is running with. And if young men knew that they could come to work for you and be mentored on business principles and on character that would set them up to succeed later in life, you would have a constant turnover because as they grew up or go back to college,

you lose them, but you'd have a constant feeder of every parent, not every parent, a lot of parents want their kid to work at Chick-fil-A. Not because they want to teach them to do chicken, but because of what they learn about life and customer service, and it's a clean and safe environment in terms of character and the way the young person is treated. And, you know, you meet some of the most sparkling, wonderful teenagers in the world when you walk into one of those places as a consequence. And so you create a brand differentiation rather than uh we cut grass and we pay minimum wage

you know we pay good but you're gonna have an experience here i mean we i don't you know i'm a person of faith and so if it were me doing it i'd be going hey we have a bible study it's not mandatory but we have a bible study on wed mornings, you know, or Wednesday evenings when we finish up work or whatever. And, you know, there's not a bunch of drunkards working on this team and not a bunch of pot smokers working on this team. You know, we're going to be these are men, young men of valor, young men of character. And that's who you get to run with. And you will become a better man, a young man as a result of having worked here. That's how I would present it.

And then, you know, reach out, and you'll get some older guys that want to stay with you forever and participate in that, and they want to be mentors to these younger guys. Something like that, or you could go a different way, but that's just an example of you build a cultural differentiator that makes you attractive not because of the exact work you're doing or the pay. Of course, the other thing you can do is you can say, hey, we pay X number of dollars and we pay bonuses on production and bonuses on profit or whatever so we've we've done a performance bonus at 50 cents per hour for your pay period you know if we get good performance and also attendance bonus so you have the ability to earn an extra dollar an hour on top of your base pay that's

great but if i were doing it would it be dependent upon their emotional position, that they emotionally act like they own the place. Which tells me how they cut the grass, how they interact with the owner, how they treat the equipment, you know, how they shop for the best price on fuel to go in the equipment, whatever. I mean, they're going to act like they own this place, and the more they do that, the more you can afford to pay them. Right. And the less hassle you got running the business. But one of our core values on the wall is we are all self-employed. And it's just typed on them. It's big old letters on the back wall of our meeting room, you know.

And we remind our folks all the time, you technically work on someone else's team, but everyone in this world is self-employed. But when you work for somebody else, you just happen to have one client, you know. But you just get that kind of vibe going, and then it's still a dogfight to this day one of our biggest things we spend time money and effort on is the finding of thoroughbreds and we're in a you know we're in a white collar highly appealing situation so we have all these other advantages you know but it's still we have to get people in here that care uh that have talent and smarts and that care and that have character and that care you know it's just a lot of people just want to come to work and mail it in you know and so you know they end up they end up leaving this place because they don't fit in around here. So it just takes – it's a constant thing.

The human resource in a business is the most expensive line item on your P&L in almost every business. It's the thing you invest the most in. It's the thing that gives you the most return, that is the most rewarding emotionally, spiritually, and psychologically, and is the most draining financially, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. It's the thing that makes me cry for joy the most often, and the thing that makes me cry tears of terror the most often. And it's just, it's the sweet and sour salsa business, baby. It ain't for sissies.

So I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's new book, The Proximity Principle, because you're not looking for a job, but you get your business and the people inside your business in the proximity, and you get yourself in the proximity of these thoroughbreds, and that's how you find them. So I would use this book is about the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love. It's about someone looking for a job. But I think you could use these exact same principles, turn them on their head,

and use them to look for people to hire. And I think it's something to think about. So just a good discussion. Thanks for calling in with that. We discuss this kind of stuff, folks, all the time with small business people all over America. The whole Entrez Leadership brand, the all-access membership for Entrez Leadership, the whole process of plugging in with them, with the team

there and coming to the events, but also the online coaching and online mastermind groups and everything else we've got with that. It's a constant thing. We coach small businesses because people like Mike right there, that's how America works. The guy calling a little bit earlier in the hour started with a $1,500 truck. Now, I did $15 million. Did you hear him? Yeah.

I mean, those men and women like that, they're what make America great, man, as far as the economy goes. They are the backbone of the economy. This is the DaveRamsey.com. Choose from over 50 of our most popular books, audio books, e-books, envelope systems, all just $10 each, including the number one bestseller, The Total Money Makeover. Seven million of those books sold almost. Wow. Teach your kids where money comes from and the value of hard work.

Smart money, smart kids. Pick up a starter envelope system. Both of Rachel Cruz's number one bestsellers. Retire Inspired, number one bestseller by Chris Hogan. Lots of deals for $10 at davramsey.com and while you're there enter to win our fuel your summer giveaway we are giving away a five thousand dollar ultimate summer road trip to one lucky winner we're also giving away 250 in gas money to five lucky winners every week in May. Enter to win daily. No purchase necessary.

Must be 18 years old or older to win. Be sure and check it out. Nancy's in New York. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Nancy. Oh, Dave, I'm so glad to talk to you. You too. Thanks for taking my call. I'm at a crossroads in my life, and I really need your help.

Okay. I'm 65 years old. I inherited $200,000. Cool. I do not have enough money in my retirement, and that's kind of an understatement. I have about $50,000 in retirement. I have about $96,000 on my mortgage.

That's two mortgages together, a primary and secondary. Those are variable rates. One is at $3,500. The other is at $5,500. What's the house worth? High eights. I'm in real estate. $900, high eights. No, I'm in real estate, so I would say... Like $900,000?

Yeah. Okay, $900,000, you only owe $96,000, okay? Yeah. And you're in real estate. You sell real estate? I do, yeah. I sell real estate. My husband's a contractor.

Great. What's your household income? It's about $150,000. And why do you not have any money saved for retirement? That's a good question. It's a combination of things. Obviously, some of it is living beyond our means. Some of it is I have a chronic health condition,

and we've spent about $25,000 a year for health insurance and insurance, frankly, mortgage comp, liability, property insurance. I mean, this is New York. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. You make $150,000. You still should have saved some money.

You're right. Yeah. Okay. I can't argue with you. All right. But right now, I've got to figure out where I'm going. So you've got $200,000 and you've got a $96,000, you still should have saved some money. You're right. Yeah. Okay. I can't argue with you. All right. But right now, I've got to figure out where I'm going. So you've got $200,000 and you've got a $96,000 mortgage. What other kind of debt have you got?

I have two vehicles that we bought last year, and hindsight's 20-20. We shouldn't have bought them. One was a new truck for my husband, which he actually has earned. He's been driving, you know, secondhand stuff all his life. And we bought a secondhand Jeep for me. So the combined debt between the two of them is about $50,000. Okay. He did not earn the truck.

That's a lie. Okay. You earned the truck when you had the money to pay for it. All right. You guys have to stop this. You're 65 years old and you're broke. Well, why i'm calling yeah i know and 200 000 is not going to help you if you don't stop the bleeding here right so what do you owe on this truck uh the truck is about 30 000 the jeep is about um 20 yeah yeah about 20. Right, exactly.

Well, the shortest distance between where you are and wealth is debt-free, mathematically. But that's not going to help you guys. I know. If you don't stop this other stuff. I'm thinking about investing some of the $200 with a hard money. It's not going to be enough. You have to get the body of your income under control. You guys have just spent everything you've made your whole life. Basically.

You basically have to stop that now. We have. I mean, 200 is not i mean you know no you haven't you just bought a 30 000 truck yeah i mean maybe after that you stopped i don't know when you stopped but you know you guys you you that's what scares me so if i knew you had stopped if i knew the two of you would never say something like you earned the right to go into debt thirty thousand dollars that's not that's a punishment that's not a that's not a reward um you know you can't say stuff like that anymore you can't think that way anymore you've got to live on less than you make and plow money back into retirement aggressively

then if i knew that was all true i'd write a check and pay off every debt. That'd be the first thing I'd do. House, cars, everything. Which is not going to leave you with about $50,000. I know. That's what I don't want to do. I don't want to spend all of it. I don't want to see it all go away.

You've already spent it all. Yeah. You're just admitting it when you pay off the debt. So either do that or sell the truck. And you're going to have to get yourself on a budget, and the two of you need to go through Financial Peace University. I'll pay for it. I want you to win.

I want you to retire with dignity. If you two will go to the class, I'll give it to you. It's nine weeks long, and then you have a one-year participation in the online. But you guys, it is time for some old dogs to learn some new tricks here. I actually looked for a financial peace class in my area, and I'd like to have to go to some part of New Jersey. Okay. Well, I'll sign you up, and you can do it online, or you can start a class in your area. Thank you.

But I'll give it to you free. Thank you. I want you to go. But you guys have got to make the decision to never again spend money you don't have. And so what we're going to do is we're going to take you to baby step three instantaneously with this money. And then you are to baby step four. And then you're going to but seven your house is paid off okay so you're millionaires but you're broke millionaires you've paid for nine hundred

thousand dollar house paid for hundred thousand dollars worth of vehicles paid for everything and now we're going to take all of your cash flow and build wealth with it in a nest egg as fast and aggressively as you can. And that's what I would do. And if you can build a half million to a million dollars in mutual funds before you two quit working, and I think you can, then you will probably be able to keep this house. If you can't, then the house is probably gone because it's the only asset you have and you've got to have some money for food at retirement so if you don't want to spend all of this money the only way i can see to avoid that is to sell the truck and somehow i

don't think you're going to do that hold on i'll have kelly pick up we'll get you signed up for financial peace you call me if i can cheer you on i want you to be on the winning side of some of these equations for the first time in your life lewis is with us in greenville south carolina hi lewis welcome to the dave ramsey show uh yes sir i had a quick question uh if i should uh sell my house i'm currently in or to buy a new one um i'm debt free and i have an emergency front i already saved up uh the current house that i'm in is a modular home that has a foundation and i was 68 000 on that and i make 65 000 a year okay cool and well the deal with a modular home is if you can walk up to it if i can walk up to it and i'm walking up the driveway and i can look at it and go uh that's a modular home if if i if it looks like a trailer or a modified trailer is what i'm saying it's going to go down in value.

Now, there's all kinds of things when you say modular home that that can possibly mean. But if it appears to be, legitimately appears to be stick built as you're walking up to it, then you'll probably see increases in value, and that would be something you'd consider. But if you can honestly assess it and look at it and go oh this is a glorified trailer well it's going down in value then and you wouldn't remodel that you'd sell that and you'd buy something that's going to go up in value long term this is the dave ramsey show Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13, 16, And do not forget to do good and share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Kobe Bryant said, The most important thing is to try and inspire people so they can be great in whatever they want to do. Jennifer is with us in Boston, Mass. Hey, Jennifer, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So a little over 10 years ago, I found myself homeless with my four kids. Whoa. Yeah. And I was on every government program to get back on my feet, put myself in nursing school. Did have to take out student loans for that, about $35,000. I just paid those off, and I managed to kind of squirrel away $15,000 in cash that I have. Good for you. And I have a $14,000 note on my car, and I have a $1,300 bank loan. So I could be out of debt, but I'm having, it's almost like major anxiety that the money's

there and I know I can do it, but I can't pull the trigger on putting the money. I can't, you know what I mean? Have no money ever again in my life. Gotcha. How long ago were you homeless? About, well, 11 years ago. And I have managed to, like I said, go through nursing school. I'm a registered nurse now and I work in a hospital and kids are great. And I have managed to, like I said, go through nursing school. I'm a registered nurse now, and I work in a hospital. And kids are great. And how old are your kids? They range in age now from 14 to 25.

The 25-year-old moved out, so the other three are still with me. Okay. And you're working 40 hours. Well, I'm budgeted for 32, but I manage to pick up all the time. You know, overtime is not hard to get as a nurse. I know, I know. And so you're an RN? Yes.

And so you make what? About $80,000 a year. Good for you. What a great story you are. You are a hero, lady. Well done. Very well done. Well, you know, the insecurity of dumping that money the last the

only money you've got on this debt and being broke after your story would make you a normal human who wouldn't have that insecurity of course you have a wound there of course this touches a soft spot, right? Yes. I mean, that just makes that, you'd be weird if it didn't. It touches a soft spot in everyone, by the way. But, I mean, you have a pretty deep thing there because it activates, you know, I'll give you an example at the Ramsey house, okay? After bankruptcy, after us going through bankruptcy, bankruptcy sharing with me and us about killing each other during that time um if i even go near the drawer where we keep the paperwork for the emergency fund sharon breaks out in hives she cannot imagine us being without an emergency fund after having been through what we went through and uh and or

if i do anything habit wise or even body language wise that activates the way i used to act when i was in my 20s now i'm in my 50s it's been 30 years it still activates her. And, you know, and so and certain things activate me still, you know, I cannot, you know, I cannot handle someone saying Dave Ramsey doesn't pay his bills. I don't merely become offended. I go into a rage because Dave Ramsey didn't pay his bills 30 years ago. And I have always paid them since. And it's like a thing, you know? So I have a different visceral reaction like you do because of my past wounds, okay? So that just makes us normal human beings.

We need to acknowledge those things. Now, having said all of that, I also can look at things and go, well, I'm a multi-gazillionaire. I don't have any trouble paying my bills. If somebody says I don't pay my bills, they're obviously full of crap. I really probably don't need to melt down. You know, and you probably don't need to melt down. You make $80,000 a year.

You can pick up all the overtime you want to pick up. How quick mathematically are you going to put $15,000 back in this account, especially since you're a little bit worried and afraid about it? You're going to put it back in about four months. Right? So pay off your car. Does that make sense? In other words, we're using our intellect and act of our will to do the logical, proper

thing in spite of the fact that we've got feelings due to our past. So I just saw your program a few months ago, and I've been putting 15%. You know, we live pretty frugally. You know, once you've been on government assistance, you kind of figure that out real quick. So you don't ever stop that. Sticks with you the rest of your life, yeah. Yeah, it sure does. So, you know, I've been still putting 15%.

Should I stop that? Yes. And then, yeah, stop that. Okay, because I didn't. Temporarily. Temporarily, because we've got to rebuild this emergency fund. Because you just paid off your car, and you don't have any money. Okay.

And so you've got to rebuild your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Then you'll start 15%. Okay. And, by the way you are a hero and you have overcome a lot but you are no longer defined by that let me tell you who you are you're a lady that makes 80 000 a year and has successfully broken the back of poverty and walked away from it you probably are going to be a multi-millionaire that's where you're headed so let's not talk about once i was on government assistance and once you're on that you never know hey you're a rock star kiddo you have an unbelievable future

i want to send you a copy of chris hogan's, Everyday Millionaires. We studied 10,000 millionaires. And when you read the stories of the millionaires in this book, you're going to find your story in there. There's a lot of people just like you that become millionaires. Because they're going to do whatever it takes to keep that past in the rearview mirror. And that's you. You are never going back. I am never going back. You and me are cut.

We had something happen to us that was life transforming, and we are never going back. But I'm also not defined by that. I'm not a guy who filed bankruptcy. I'm a multimillionaire because I changed my habits and transformed my life after I filed bankruptcy. So I'm looking at the future, and I've changed my whole family tree, and you are too. I'm so proud of you. I'm so honored to talk to you. What a neat lady.

Hold on. We're going to have Kelly pick up, send you a copy of that book. Pay off your car. Work this system. You're going to be okay. You have what it takes to do this. You you have what it takes to do this oh you definitely have what it takes to do this i love it thanks you thank you lord for that call today somebody out there needed to hear that i know i did that's awesome stuff hey guys the point is this. You can do it. I don't know who you are, and I don't know where you are,

but I've met somebody probably just about like you in the 30 years of me doing this. I don't know what's stacked against you. I don't know how bad you've been hurt, lied to, kicked, beat down, lied about. 23-year marriage just ended. took off he took off i don't know where you are but i do know this you can start making choices today to control your destiny you can control the controllables you can't control the things that you don't control but the things you control you can control them and the vast majority of the quality of your future is from your choices not from someone else's choices you are not a victim of your circumstances boy jennifer just told you that

didn't she what a cool lady you are not a victim of your circumstances, your upbringing. That thing that happened to you in the past is not your defining moment. It's your transforming moment. And that's not BS. That's how life works when you become successful. And it's how you become successful. It's what causes you to persevere. It's what causes you to say, I'm never going to do the things that cost me everything.

I'm never going to be back there again. Never. No matter what. You get to decide those things. Isn't that the coolest thing ever? I think it is. It's why I keep doing this show after 30 years. And it's why some of you are still listening after 30 years. And we appreciate you being there. That puts us out of

the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.