The Ramsey Show - App - You Don't Have to Be in Debt to Learn Lessons About Debt (Hour 1)

Episode Date: May 15, 2020

Relationships, Debt Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ramsey personality John Deloney, Dr. John Deloneyoney is my co-host today and we'll he'll be taking questions from you about relational iq issues so if you're having a relationship issue of any kind a stress issue a an anxiety issue maybe the person in your mirror is bothering you he's bothering me earlier this morning mine's been bothering me too that guy is a problem listen evidently i have to also sleep and eat well and treat other people nice or i don't like that guy

either in the mirror there you go man we all have to uh practice the things we were supposed to have learned by kindergarten only uh we do not learn them why is it so hard? Relational IQ questions along with money questions here all day long. The phone number, 888-825-5225. Starting the hour off is Brian in Arizona. Hey, Brian, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks. Thanks for taking my call. Love your show.

Thank you, sir. Absolute pleasure to talk to you today, sir. You too. How can Dr. John and I help? Hey, I'm 52, divorced, good career, baby step seven. But recently I started dating again, and I've met a few nice people that have a ton of personal debt. And I just wanted to get your take on, I just feel a little bit shallow for my first instinct is wanting to cut and run, and I just wanted to get your take on that when you meet somebody new.

Well, I don't think it's shallow. I mean, you're saying this is a value of mine that this person doesn't share. It's not that you wouldn't be be willing to for the right person come alongside them i assume um right but but it's just like uh if this is how they live then that says something about them that i don't like um that's not shallow that's that's being observant now i i will tell you that um of course i i know absolutely nothing about dating because I haven't dated in 40 years other than one hillbilly woman. But, you know, what we've advised people in this category, and John can jump in as well, is I don't tell you to not marry someone who has debt or to not have a relationship with someone that has debt. What I would tell you is to make sure your values are aligned.

Otherwise, you're going to have a long life and so if for instance uh they're in debt and they don't give a rip about that and it looks like they're going to stay in debt the rest of their life uh that's not a match for you because you're a guy that doesn't go that way right right but if she's uh everything you want uh but she's got thirty thousand dollars in student loan and she's peddling hard as she can to get rid of that student loan debt or something, then joining her in that after marriage and finishing to pay that off, now you've got shared directions. And so the mathematics of she has to be debt-free to be dateable, no. But she has to be heading that way, not because of the math or the money,

but because the shared values. That's what we teach people, have taught people over the years. John? I think I would love the fact that you're labeling your values. I think being out of debt and living this life is so countercultural, it's at least worth a conversation. It's not like it may feel to you like drug use or, hey, we don't murder in this new family, like some kind of like core value but for folks i find out in the community it's so countercultural they've never

even heard it before and sometimes you talk to you talk to them about it and they are all in all i mean all jumping in full boat with you so it may be a great way for you guys to have a conversation together and start talking about the values but dave's right if i mean if it took three years of both of your combined income after marriage to clear up her debt and everything else about the relational picture was clean, including the fact that she wants to be debt-free, that's a conversation starter. Well, and you'll have a great joint small win to start your marriage with. That's a great way to get your journey going together is to be on the same page

and to slay a small dragon on the way out yeah i even tell like young kids you know that are like 20 years old you know well do i do i not date someone with with the student loan debt no that's i don't i don't think it's a deal breaker i want to continually stay in debt the rest of my life that would be a deal breaker because it's not congruent with your values but it gives somebody an opportunity to have a values conversation that evidently people don't have anymore before they start dating and so i think this is a great way to say hey by the way here's here's some things i believe in just things i believe in strongly and here's who whoever i decide to spend the rest of my life with here's the journey we're going to take together i love that yeah have you seen

anthony o'neill's little video that's gone viral? Yeah. I mean, it's gone like millions and millions and millions of views. This girl wouldn't go out with him because he wouldn't take her to a $500 restaurant for a second date. Because he told her, he said, I'm on a budget. And she's like, well, I don't want to date a guy on a budget. And he has made her famous, although he's never named her but um that that that is a hated woman now all over youtube except for the women who are like i agree with him i agree with her i agree with her i wouldn't date him either and i'm like zero five hundred anthony you're just cheap but yeah he no he the 500 bucks second date? My wife loves her some Arby's. I must have married well then.

$500? That's my first car, man. I'm out on that one. Well, I mean, but the point is, I mean, she said, I'm not dating a guy on a budget, which is, Anthony's like, well, I don't want to date a girl that won't date a guy on a budget. Right. So that's probably date a guy on a budget so that's a it's probably a not a match and so what we're saying here is is the number one cause of divorce in north america today and

and and disarg and arguments inside marriage is money and money fights and money stress and if that's if you know what the number one thing is and you can argue you can find other pieces of research say it's number two okay but if the number one thing is haircuts you'd be real concerned about haircuts have the haircut conversation yeah if the if the number one thing was the types of blue jeans you'd have the blue jean conversation you know and so the money being in alignment on the money the direction not the moment in time but the direction is a it should be for a person that's wise a deal breaker it's not shallow no but it also leaves a moment so day people will say your name and it it makes them beam light

they get excited because you told them you give them some information you give them some tools to get out of debt and i don't want to get to the end of that journey and then turn around and start judging everybody who hasn't made that journey yet. And so this guy's got an opportunity to become Dave Ramsey for some lucky woman down the line, right, to say. As long as we're together. You know, we just don't do missionary dating. We don't do missionary. Oh, that's right.

That's right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a losing proposition for everybody. I'll meet you right up there until. Until, okay. There's no missionary dating. I'm not going to. If I have to talk you into this. I'll come. I'll come. I'll come. I'll come. I'll come. I'll come. I'll come. I'll meet you right up there until. Until. Okay. There's no missionary dating. I'm not going to. If I have to talk you into this.

Nope. No, that's not it. But if you're brand new to it and you see the light and your skills are still primitive and new, you're learning how to do this for the first time, but you've got the direction, I can meet you there. Love it. But if you're heading the other direction, you need to just keep going. I love it.

You need to head on off, baby. Have the conversation. Yeah. Have the haircut conversation, too. Hey, shut up. It's going to grow. It's going to grow. It's going to grow, yeah.

So Sharon knew she was going to sign up for this. That's right. Four years ago. You should have had the haircut. Yeah, you should have had the haircut. You should have looked at the parental baldness on the other side. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders now more than ever, we need people with the right skills to support our communities, especially the frontline workers who provide resources and care for those

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Or if you're in another industry and have hiring needs, visit linkedin.com slash Ramsey. LinkedIn.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney, my co-host this hour. The phone number, 888-825-5225. Trent's in Tennessee. Hey, Trent, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Thank you for taking my call.

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yes, sir. I just want to get your advice on if I should sell my car or not. Both my wife and I would tell you it is the worst decision we've ever made. I believe we got it back in 2014, and it's an 07 Acura MDX. It was already seven years old.

And we got it for $20,000 at the time, and right now we owe about $8,000 on it. What's it worth today? Around $4,000 or $5,000. Okay. And what's your household income? Take-home after taxes is $60,000. So what's your reason for selling a $4,000 car? Honestly, just when I look at it, it just reminds me of the worst decision we've ever made.

Honestly, at the time we were in an argument, and so what do you do when you are in an argument? You go out and take out a car loan. Yeah, it works for me you know what i've worked with a lot of people in a lot of challenges and i've never heard that in my life till just now it is rare that my mind is blown so really what it amounts to is it's not the financial it's just you every time you look at the thing you feel stupid yes sir okay i don't mind i've i've some stuff like that, and I got rid of it for the exact same reason. I'm with you. But there's not a financial reason to get rid of a $4,000 car when you're making $60,000. It doesn't solve any problems for you.

And so what are you going to get? You're going to get another $4,000 or $5,000 car, right? Right, yes, sir. Because you've got other debts you're working off, right? Yes, sir, $15,000, sir. Because you've got other debts you're working off, right? Yes, sir, $15,000. Okay. Yeah, I mean, if you want to trade cars even, you don't come out with a $4,000 or $5,000 car or something like that.

I don't want you going further in debt and using the fact that this car makes you feel stupid to go do something stupid. Yes, sir. Okay, so let's just say at a break even if you bought a four or your budget is no more than $5,000 if that car is a $4,000 or $5,000 car, and you want to trade around a little bit on that, and you move some of this negative equity on this thing over to a personal loan in the process, you end up with the exact same amount of debt in a different car,

then, yeah, if you want to go that route, I'm okay with that plan. You may want to do it just towards the end of this thing. And go ahead. I mean, $19,000 making $65,000, you ought to be debt-free in a year anyway. You might drive it until that and then just sell it after it's paid off. It would be easier to do. But, you know, it's just a matter of how much this thing's a thorn in your side. Man, I've had those where you just want to, every time you see it, man.

Well, I mean, it's not only the thing sitting in the driveway staring at you going, you're stupid, but every time you write a check every month, it says you're stupid again. You know, and what do you say, 2014? So this is six, seven years he's been going with this. So it's a 15-year-old car they still owe money on. Yeah, yeah. God almighty. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Isn't that great? All right, let's go to Scarlett in Texas. Hey, Scarlett, how are you? Hi, Dave and Dr. John. I'm doing all right. How are you guys? Great. How can we help?

Well, first, I just wanted to thank you for taking time to help me today. I am on baby step four and six with my husband. We are 34. We have three kids and my oldest is seven. So I omitted baby step five because we're actually feeling pretty resistant to starting baby step five. And I'm pretty sure I probably have some holes in my thinking and I'd love to get your thoughts on this. Okay. So you don't want to save for your children's college. Why? Because we could, at the point that we are right now with our income, we could cash flow college right now and we have a seven-year-old. So I don't see our income dropping more than it is

and that we would be able to just cash flow college. The other reason why I'm resistant to saving for my kids' college is because I'm afraid it will create a moral hazard for them. Like, oh, well, mom and dad already have a bunch of money set up for me. I don't have to be creative. I don't have to try to get college credits in high school or I don't have to work. I don't have to do this stuff. That would only occur if you suck as a parent. Yeah, I guess that's true.

I'm really trying hard not to suck as a parent. I'm giving you a hard time. So all three Ramsey kids, we saved for their college and then we cash floated and didn't use the savings and handed them those mutual funds after they graduated. However, their part in this was to not exhibit signs of having become a moral hazard to themselves. got to go to college and have me pay for it was you were going to live the value system that we teach and live at the Ramseys. You're going to be walking with God. You're going to be working. You're going to be saving. You're not going to be engaging in extreme levels of misbehavior like your dad did when he was in college. You're not going to, you know, live with your boyfriend while you're in college. That's a value we don't do at the Ramseys.

And so if you want my money, you're going to be living the system that I taught you for living as you grew up in our home. You don't get to go get a degree in beer pong um and so you're you're going to have to actually oh and by the way we're actually going to get the syllabus out um because all four-year degrees are designed to uh the classes are offered if you take them to graduate in four years not graduating in four years it's just lazy i graduated in three years from college because i knew that my parents weren't going to pay for it we came from large families and my parents were like we can't do it and so i had to develop these critical thinking skills and really game the system and look at you know like you're saying the college syllabus is in my major plan so that i could get out even sooner and college would cost me less

so i'm yeah i guess it's just it kind of comes back to the thing of do you ever do you have to have been deeply in debt to have learned the lesson about debt the answer is no you have to go through what you went through and what i went through the same thing trying to get through school on our own in order to become a whole person. The fact that my three kids graduated in four years, walk in with God, married excellent spouses, and live very, very phenomenal, their model lives, says that it can be done. Are we perfect at it? Oh, no, they'll tell you the Ramseys aren't perfect if you ask them. But, John, you've been in higher ed for a bazillion years.

Can this be done? I mean, can you send a kid to school and pay for it and then not become a brat? Absolutely. And I think it goes back to what you just said. Training a boxer isn't just hitting them in the head with a stick. That's not going to help them, right? And so if you've got the means to help out your kids through college i think that's a great gift you can hand them but like dave said you don't just hand money over without um value attachments to it and yes you can you can grow a brat or you can

help grow model citizens and i wish it wasn't that easy but you can and so no you're not going to be hampering your kid unless you raise a brat. You're not going to hurt your kids by helping them through college. If you don't save for college, by the way, I don't think you've done something morally wrong. If you choose to go the direction you're going, you just wanted to have a discussion, so we're giving you one. But I also don't want to leave you with the idea that you have to do this. I've got a friend that's in the NFL, and he grew up in a blue-collar family, broke,

and he obviously got a football scholarship to a major university and graduated in four years with a degree in finance, played pro ball after that, and really bright guy. But he is saving nothing for his kids. He's bound and determined because he's a blue-collar dude all the way through to his bones and just says they're going to work. Screw it. They've got to figure it out, and it's good for them to figure it out.

So he's kind of in your camp in that regard. But I think that it can be done. As a matter of fact, I've got a model that shows that it has been done. I've done it. But it doesn't mean that that's can be done. As a matter of fact, I've got a model that shows that it has been done. I've done it. But it doesn't mean that that's the only way. I put enough other things on my kids without putting the financial on them. I mean, just being my kid is a thing. But, you know, I mean.

And what you did is harder than making them work. How? The moral values you attached to your kids and had them live into, they had to become full human beings. Yeah. Yeah, they couldn't live, they couldn't,

they couldn't do whatever they wanted to do. Yeah. You know, until you have self-discipline, you have parent discipline.

And once you have self-discipline, you don't need parent discipline anymore. Right. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders make your life easier with FreshBooks. Whether you're starting a business or you've been at it a long time,

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and this building was a ghost town with about 15 or 20 of us in a building that holds 1,000-plus people for four or five weeks, and then had a week where people could come back to work voluntarily after the governor said it was okay. And now we're in our second full week of everyone being here, with the exception of those that have health issues and so on. But we're back at the building and this monday this last monday five days ago we opened the doors to the public again to come into the lobby and we're not allowing you guys to wander through and infect our entire team because

we know how you public people are but um but we let you in the lobby i'm kidding it's we're glad to see you guys and and part of that is debt-free screams are back on the debt-free stage and that includes nick and audrey from orlando florida standing on the debt-free stage with we are debt-free t-shirts on they made way to go guys thank you thank you so awesome how much have you paid off uh twenty two thousand four hundred and sixty four dollars and six cents excellent and how long did this take five months well you got it Uh, $22,464.06. Excellent. And how long did this take? Five months.

Well, you got it. And your range of income during that time? $75,000. Okay, cool. What do you guys do for a living? Um, I'm a special education teacher. Ah. And I am a Christian financial advisor.

Very cool. Very cool. And how long have you been married? Um, it'll be one year on monday oh wow okay so one of the first orders of business in the new marriage is the christian financial you said christian financial advisor advisor to say uh we're gonna get on the same page in our family or somebody said it and uh we're gonna get out of debt in five months way to go tell me the story what happened yeah so um i i had listened to you before um but audrey definitely had more of a

journey in in being a dave kid i like to talk about that a little bit so my uh dad and my sister my dad is the reason why we're standing here today and uh we used to listen to you at our kitchen table and your financial peace baby yeah and you married a christian financial advisor yeah this is just like cult like or something you guys are this is amazing i'm so proud of you very cool so your dad's with you yeah and uh so he got my little sister hooked she's eight years younger than me so my at the time she was like i don't know 10 years old and she's like audrey you gotta do this with your money you gotta do that i'm like why is my sister who's eight years younger than me so my at the time she was like I don't know 10 years old and she's like Audrey you got to do this with your money you got to do that I'm like why is my sister who's eight years younger than me telling me how to handle my money so I was like fine I'm gonna jump on board and that's

how my journey started and when I met Nick I was like we're doing the Dave thing and you don't have a choice and he's like I'm a financial. I might know something about this. I might not need Dave. So how did that conversation go, Nick? I mean, it went well. I was completely on board. We had a crazy month of May. We graduated May 11th of last year. Got married the 18th.

Honeymoon for a week and a half. Moved to Orlando as soon as we were done our honeymoon. And then I started work the next Monday. So we knocked everything out as quickly as we were done our honeymoon, and then I started work the next Monday. Wow. So we knocked everything out as quickly as possible. Wow. And then we quickly figured out that we could pretty much live off of my income and just use Audrey's when she started teaching to just throw out the debt. Yeah.

So what was the $22,400? What kind of debt? That was just student loans. Sally Mae is gone. Yes. Give the ugly woman her eviction notice. Uh-huh. Get out of my house yeah we were putting like 35 to 40 percent of our monthly income towards man the debt you're

well i mean five months yeah you hammered this i mean you hammered it this is so good you guys lots of people thought we were weird yeah well You are. You're amazingly weird in a wonderful way. Very cool. Very cool. How's it feel? It felt really weird at first. The first couple months, we're like, we just have extra money. We don't have to pay it to anybody. But it feels amazing.

We're reaching the goals that we wanted to reach and quickly moving forward. We already are done baby step three. We're working on 3b now and about to start four next month when i can put into my 401k i love it that's so fun you guys are incredible so obviously dad was a big cheerleader once you started doing this who were your other cheerleaders um my mom and her husband mike and nick's parents and um our our friends Zach and Carla who are watching. Hey, guys. They're like our first friends in Florida.

Oh, that's fun. So you really had a good support group. I mean, you didn't have family going, you know, you're not supposed to be out of that. You don't have family members doing that. No. That made it a lot easier. They're like, yes, yes, I wish I'd done this when I was your age. How old are you two?

23. 23 years old. Man, you're going to be so unbelievably wealthy and so unbelievably generous. You're going to be so poised to do anything you want to do. So proud of y'all. Impressive. If you keep wearing the same T-shirt, too, you're going to stay married a long time. Whose idea was that?

Of course it was hers. And I had no hand in designing it either. Well, good, because they look great. You have figured out, though, that you wear the t-shirt when you're told to. That was good. Good move, my man. Good move.

Takes some guys a decade to figure that out, right? Very good. Very cool. Way to go, y'all. I'm excited for y'all. Yeah. I would say the hardest part of our journey was Nick's car, Maxine. She was... Maxine? Yeah.

The crazy car? Yeah. Whenever you name a car, you know it's awful. No, but I mean, and Maxine's the one from the horror movie, right? Isn't that the one? Wasn't that the car that was, like, demon-possessed? Yeah, it was a nissan maxima and we actually broke down in the middle of the road and our friends zach and carla they actually came

and they towed us four miles with a chain attached to it so that we could fix it and still drive it a little bit longer until we paid off the debt nerd if your friends are calling your car with a log chain yeah yes yes i love I love it. This is so great. So cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? We have a few. One of them, of course, is to get on a budget and stick to it. I think that's true for everybody.

And one that was really big for us, and specifically for people coming out of school, is to take advantage of the grace period and pay on top of your loans as much as you can before you have to start minimum payments. And I think that was a really cool part of our story because we actually didn't make a minimum payment. Yeah. You got it done before the grace period. Well, our grace period would have ended in November. And we had paid so much at that point. I think we were just over halfway done. But they pushed it back. And they deferred the next payment to January. And I'm like,

we're not even going to have to make a minimum payment. That's so great. Yeah. So it was... Year one. Do you realize that? So we had it in our budget, but we were like,

oh, this month we don't have to have the minimum payment. And I was like very confused as to why they pushed it back. And I was like, I guess this is how they keep people in debt. You paid so much. Let's just keep dragging it out. Exactly right. We're going to make this easy so much. Let's just keep dragging it out. Exactly right. We're going to make this easy for you.

That's exactly what they're doing. Very well done, you guys. So well done. Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Every Day Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story. And I know this because I had daughters and son sitting at our kitchen table that probably one of the most rewarding things for a dad is to watch you guys becoming who you've become.

And so if you wanted to say thank you to your dad, you've done it by the people you've become. So very well done. That's his reward. And I can speak as a dad you've done it by the people you've become so very well done that's his reward and i can speak as a dad that's done the same thing so very cool times this is what he had in mind when you were eight years old and your sister was eight years old and y'all were talking about this at the kitchen table this is why he did this so set you up for life you've got the skills and the tools now to completely win. Very well done. Very well done. I love it. Alright, Nick and Audrey,

Orlando, Florida, $22,400 in five months. Newly married, doing it at $75,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Yeah! Yeah! Ha, ha, ha, ha, one. We're dead free! Yeah! That's why I come down here every day still. You want to change your family tree? That's what the sound, that's what it sounds like. That story, that's the sound of a family tree being changed. And don't tell me, well, our family. Change it. If Eeyore is the spirit animal of your family, it's time to change your family.

And you pointed it out, but I want to see one dad, one mom said no more, and they've created another branch on the tree, and they're going to raise kids that changed another branch on the tree, and you're talking about a legacy is different because a couple of parents said no more. Yep. Never again. Never again.

Not me and mine. As for me and my house, we're done. We're no more. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. folks i love telling you about well-made well-thought-out products today i'm talking about grip six belts i don't know about you but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern, minimalist belt made of high-quality materials with no holes, no flap, and no bulk. And the buckles come in really cool designs and are interchangeable. I personally own these belts

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So that's generational as well. And, you know, there's nothing like a global pandemic to kick you in the butt and get your priorities set straight. This is the perfect time to refocus your goals. And after hearing a call like that, the 14 day free trial for financial peace membership is that we're giving you for the first time in the history of financial peace. After hearing that call, if you don't go try that, your brain's not plugged in good really you get all of our digital content including all nine lessons of our proven plan that's helped nearly six million people like them like that whole family tree being changed not only get out of debt not only build wealth but be outrageously generous

build wealth and be outrageously generous. Did you hear that part? And the EveryDollarPlus app is in there, our newest app, the Baby Steps app is in there. All of it's free in the 14-day trial. You can reset your priorities, you can get on a plan, go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope or DaveRamsey.com slash FPU. Either one for the 14-day free trial. This is not going to last forever. This is something we've done special during this time because some of you have reached that moment where you said, as for me and mine, never again.

Changes everything. Got to have that moment where you say no more. There's something that happens to the human psyche when, for whatever reason, you've had enough. I want to say this, Dave. My wife and I, we didn't go through a class. We got the book 20 years ago, however long ago. It was 15 years ago. We went through it.

We've been debt-free. But when I joined here, I joined a class. And hearing the lessons again together with my wife in a new season. We've got kids now. We've got different parties and plans. So even if you think you already know all the baby steps and you think you've been through it again, I want to recommend to folks

to go do it again. It's a 14-day free trial. Go do it again. Hear it again. Hear the lessons again. Because you're going to hear it with a new lens and a new voice. Especially if you're doing it with someone you've been married to for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. It's never hurts. It's a whole new, it can, it can almost feel like it's all new again. Yeah. Melina is with us in New York. Hey, Melina, your question for Dr. John. Yes. Hi. I'm actually calling because I had some concerns with everything that's going on.

So my grandma passed away, but my family wasn't really didn't have a plan in regards to how they wanted to do a funeral. So it was basically everything was such a mess just because she didn't have life insurance. And then a few months ago, my father also passed away and he had everything planned to a T. But now my issue is with my mother and every time we talk to her in regards to getting a life insurance, it's more of a, she just closes it and doesn't want to speak about it um she doesn't she'd rather not even go into that detail and she basically doesn't have um any savings and the job that she does have she does she has is basically paying her only three hundred dollars

probably a week or less so i don't know how to go about helping her or my siblings helping her in the long run so that way we're not going through this financial issue that how my other parents basically dealt with my grandma passing so what's your concern with paying for her funeral someday. Correct. Okay. All right. And what do you make? I make $70,000. What do your siblings make? Oh, well, one of them is a police officer. I'm not too sure about his rate at the moment. And then the oldest one is a physical therapist. I want to say he makes $67,000, $70,000. So all of you make a lot more money than your mom? Correct. Okay.

Well, I mean, $10,000 would cover a funeral. So why don't each of you chip in three grand and let's just have a funeral fund built? Okay, and what... Okay, so for my grandma, it was six of them. It's six siblings, my mother, my. No, I'm talking about you three. You're worried about burying your mother, and there's three kids.

Correct. Mm-hmm. Now, your grandmother's a different subject. Let's stay on subject with your mother. $3,000 apiece from your three, from you and your two siblings is $9,000. That'll take care of a funeral. Okay. And if they're all in debt as well, then?

Well, I mean, if everybody just agrees that I'm in for $3,000 now or later, you know, then you've got that taken care of, and you don't have to put that burden on your mother, who's basically living hand-to-mouth is what you're telling me. Correct. And then also the other thing that we're kind of worried about is if we, because she currently lives with us. So if we decide to move out, how do we have somebody take care of her? And I was fortunate enough to watch my dad and his brothers and sister have a hard conversation about here's what's coming down the road and here's who's going to be in charge of what. My brother and my sister have had that conversation. That's just a conversation that siblings have to be adults, have to be grownups, and they have to have that hard conversation.

Because the reality is you're not going to change – your mom's not going to change her heart and mind right now. And so you're going to be faced with some hard realities you're all going to have to figure that out um but a shared a shared cost on where your mom's going to go if she if you all decide she's not living with us anymore then that's a conversation you need to have with your siblings and you're going to have to have it with her there's not an easy way to have that conversation other than to just plan it and then have it how old is your mom uh 56 okay so she still could do a lot of things if she chose to. Correct. Yeah.

Okay. If she chose to, yes. Yeah. So I think that's another conversation that's hard, but I think it's one I'm going to have. I mean, Mom, what are you going to do if we move out? How are you going to make it? Mm-hmm. Don't just throw up your hands and say that you don't know. Let's develop a plan.

Mm-hmm. You know, what are we going to do with this career? Because the one you've got sucks. You're only 56. She's younger than me. And that's old. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a fairly low bar to be younger than me. Shut up, John.

Hey, I think what you're asking for is a silver bullet, and there's not one. This is going to be a couple of hard conversations that you're going to have to have, and you can lead your brothers and sisters by getting everybody together, whether that's on a Zoom call or that's over dinner or lunch or whatever that's going to be like. I think the stress that your uncles and aunts have been under due to your grandmother's passing with no plan gives you an open door to have the conversation. Absolutely. And so you and your brothers and sisters sit down with mom.

If they're in the area, let's just call a family meeting and say, Mom, we're concerned about two or three things here. One, we're concerned that you don't make any money and how you're going to live if we move out or we move, how you're going to make it. And we really think you could do better with the money you've got. You could do better to confront her about her career choice and so forth, and gently and lovingly.

And it's not because you need money from her or something like that. And then the second part of the conversation is, okay, we're not going to go through what uncles and aunts just went through, so we're all going to chip in and take care of your burial. But in return, we need you to um this next 20 years of your life to be more productive financially and um i mean you can be as direct or indirect about that as you want uh and and you can you know again you can bathe these kinds of conversations in a lot of i love you and that's why we're talking about this i love you and that's why we're talking about

this she may not hear it she may just get mad but you you know you owe it to her to have said the stuff out loud and the fact that all this the emotions are in the air right now because of the loss of your grandmother and the situation she was in when she passed and so we're going okay we should all learn something from this we loved granny but there's a part of her life that was not well lived. And we, there should be some takeaways from this moment in time. And so we're all going to sit down and talk it through. Yeah. And I love the idea of having this in a non-emotional setting, like setting a plan, making sure that everybody's on the same page and not waiting until something blows up or not surprising somebody with, Hey, we're moving out. Um, but just being able to sit

down and put pen to paper and then have some loving conversations. Yeah, we'll participate in helping you. If you want to go take some classes, maybe the kids jump in and pay for mom to do that. I don't know. But, I mean, there's ways you can help her, but just not addressing. Avoidance isn't solving anything.

Avoidance is not a technique. Well, it is, but it's not a successful technique. It's a successful one, that's right. Yeah. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, joining me today on The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.