The Ramsey Show - App - You Don't Have to Go to a Private School to Build Wealth! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality,

is my co-host today here on the show. This is the Dave Ramsey Show, where we talk about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jerry's in Oregon. Hi, Jerry. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys.

Great to talk to you today. First thing I've got to tell you, it's my wife's birthday today, and the one thing she wanted to do was talk to you guys, so here we are. All right. Well, happy birthday. What's your name? Yeah. This is Shelby. It's my wife. Happy birthday, Shelby. Cool. Yeah. So our question for you guys today, so we have some money set aside to buy a house.

Some of it's in a mutual fund that's non-retirement that we were earmarking for a house. And then we have some in an inherited Roth IRA. And we were wondering what you guys thought about using that in addition to our non-retirement mutual fund to purchase a house since it will grow tax-free until the end of time. So what are your guys' thoughts? Well, it's 50-50. If it was a regular Roth, I would say no. Never touch retirement plans for buying a house, okay? But this is not a regular.

It's an inherited. Right. And so you'll pay taxes on it when you pull the money out, right? Yep. And on the growth, anyway. Oh, no. On the growth. Yeah.

On the growth, you will. If it's an inherited IRA. Well, if it's a Roth, it probably doesn't. No. I don't think I just screwed that up. Our investor professional told us it wouldn't. Yeah, no taxes. No taxes.

How much is in there? $65,000. How much you got saved in your other mutual fund for your down payment? About $170,000. So you're just going to pay cash for a house? Well, we were hoping to. We live in a pretty expensive area, but we figure if we save for... So we think we can pay cash if we use both the regular mutual fund and the inherited Roth. Yeah. If we save for the next like five years, then if we don't use the inherited Roth, it might be more like seven. Wow.

Until we can buy a house with cash. Why don't you buy a little house for cash and just live in it while you're saving up? Well, I mean, we've looked. We live in Bend. So, I mean, if you want a mobile home, you can get something for under about $290, but $325 seems to be about where we have to start.

Jerry, you know you've got to drive out a little further. Okay. No, you know, you get my point. We're not putting you in a mobile home. Yeah, we're not going to do that. They go down in value. But, yeah, yes, I would cash out the Roth, especially if it allowed you to pay cash. And our recommendation would be to buy an inexpensive home.

And it's been a while since I've been to Bend, Oregon, but it's hard for me to believe that the average household price in Bend, Oregon, is double the national average. Right. Because the national average is 220 right now. Right. And here's the thing, Dave. As you know, you are the real estate guru.

You've got to go in smart with a game plan and what you're going to buy. Right. And be very intentional and be clear on that. It's not an emotional decision. This is a business decision. And if you can go in and pay cash for a home, that is definitely the way to go and be intentional about what you're going to do as far as furnishing this thing as you move along. Yeah. Use your income without a house payment to furnish it and then use your income without a house payment to build up and move up in house

later with cash. That's right. That would be my favorite plan. And I would use the Roth for that, the inherited Roth. I would not use a regular Roth ever to buy a house. And ever is like... Ever. Ever. People will call in to challenge you, Dave. Well, just to make sure they're not the exception. Drew's in Massachusetts.

Hey, Drew, how can Chris and I help? Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I just graduated in May, and I started a full-time job. I'm 23 years old, and I have to start saving for my 401K next month. So I was wondering what you recommend. My parents want me to invest with the 15% that you recommend,

and they match 6%, so I just didn't know. Wow. Drew, how old are you? I'm 23. 23 years old, and you're going to start investing soon. I love to I love hearing this. Have your parents always taught you about money? Are you self taught? They started listening to Dave a couple years ago, so they kind of got me listening too. So everything kind of changed a few years ago. That is fantastic. So do you have any debt at all? Um, I've paid off about half of my loans already, so I have about 11,000 left. Okay. You got 11,000 left in student loans? Yeah. Okay. And do you have an emergency fund? Yep. Okay. How much do you have in your emergency? How much? I just have just $1,000 in an emergency. And then I have a couple thousand

that I've been saving for my loan. Okay. See, I love this. The mindset. But here's what I'm going to do, because the key to being successful is to not only follow a plan, but follow it in order. The recipe I'm about to lay out for you is one that's helped over 7 million families. So hear me with this. What I would advise you do before you start trying to invest is I would attack the rest of that 11,000 in the student loans that you have. And once you get that out of your life, I want you to build up a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And you're going to put that in a money market account. Now, once that's there, now you're going to put that in a money market account. Now, once that's there, now you're ready to start investing and saving for the future.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So, but people have been recommending that because they're matching the 6%, that I should at least do that before I even finish. People are wrong. Yeah. Did your parents tell you this no okay most people

are broke yeah so don't listen to people yeah don't don't listen to that and i again that mindset because we don't want these student loans hanging around like it's a family friend it's not you're 23 yeah it's not going to take you long to knock out the 11 000 when that's gone you build that emergency fund then you start your 401. You take advantage of that match. You're not going to miss the match for very long. It's going to be like a year. And it's not going to keep you from being a millionaire. What will keep you from being a millionaire is if you cash out your 401K when your car transmission goes out

because you've got debt and don't have an emergency fund. And that's the mistake that everybody makes when they think, oh, I have to go do the match. I have to go do the match. I have to go do the match. And then they step off the edge of the cliff. No, they really do, Dave. And again, it is following the plan. It's the recipe. And I can remember, Dave, I got out of grad school, and they had taught me dumb stuff, OPM, other people's money, and leverage, and all this stuff.

And I thought I was ready to go, and I did more stupid than the law would allow. And, you know, without a plan, you can make more and earn more and make more, but you don't get anywhere. And it's a treadmill. And I know people are out there are tired of being on that treadmill. And I want to talk to the old, the younger Hogan's out there that say, you know, I'm going to wait till I start making X to get serious. Do me a favor. Don't believe in that fantasy. Don't start waiting until anything. Start today and get serious and manage whatever it is you're making today very well. It prepares you to be ready for more later. Absolutely.

Chris Hogan, my co-host this day on The Dave Ramsey Show. James Child sitting in the booth with Madison. We are here to help you. This is called The Dave Ramsey Show. James Child sitting in the booth with Madison. We are here to help you. This is called The Dave Ramsey Show. folks i love telling you about well-made well-thought-out products today i'm talking about grip six belts i don't know about you but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right and they're uncomfortable. Grip6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern minimalist belt made of high quality materials with no holes, no flap, and no bulk. And the buckles come in really cool designs and are interchangeable. I personally own these belts in different styles.

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Well, so I'm single. I'm in the military and will be in for the next 10 years, and I'll probably be moving like you probably know pretty frequently during that time. I am debt free. I have a fully funded emergency fund and I'm already saving 15% to my retirement. I was doing the math and I'm going to have over $20,000 a year to give, have fun, and build wealth. My question is, what do I do about the build wealth part? Because I've heard you say many times, like, don't buy rental properties because then you'll end up being a long-distance landlord with the situation I am with the military.

So what do I do? Wow, you've got a great opportunity, Rachel. So you go in 10 more years. How many years in the military would that give you all total? Um, it'll be about 10. Um, I'm trained to be a pilot. Okay. Make a sign along contract. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. And so as you look at this, you start to realize you've got options ahead of you. Um, I would tell you, you know, you don't have debt. You've got an emergency fund. You know, you've got an opportunity to do giving right here and right now.

But as far as wealth building, you know, you've got your TSP, the Thrift Savings Plan, which is the military's version of the 401k. But I'm going to tell you something else. You also have options of saving using growth stock mutual funds outside of retirement. And so that comes with no limits. You can put as much in as you want. And so that's something I would talk to a smart investor pro about, because for you long term, you're eventually going to want to buy a home. And so that would be a great place to put some money. Absolutely. Thanks for your service, Rachel. Appreciate you. And congratulations on your pilot's career. That's going to be a great career inside the military and outside. Done a

really good job. You've obviously laid our stuff out line item by line item. Very well done. And so for wealth building beyond that, Chris is exactly right. I would just get with a smart investor pro and just start some mutual funds and just let them build up. And, you know, one of your first goals in that might be to have enough to pay cash for a house at the end of your military career. Maybe one of your other goals would be to be on that. I want to pay cash when I do settle in somewhere for some real estate at that 10 year mark. But you can definitely have a lot of money piled up by then. And you've done it and still will have had a great life traveling and enjoying things and, of course, being generous like Chris was suggesting. Very, very good.

Great job. Yes. Wow. Seth is with us in Virginia. Hi, Seth. How are you? Hi, gentlemen. Good afternoon.

Hey, what's up? So, relatively new listener. So, I had a question and wanted some advice if you could help me in regards to my wife's student loan. Her student loans are roughly about $190,000. Good Lord. And it's an income-based repayment plan. Well, that's what you've got it on. What is she, a doctor or a lawyer? She's actually, she has her master's in social work.

$200,000. Yeah, yeah. And what does she make a year? Well, that's the thing. She's been a stay-at-home mom for the last seven years with our kids, and she's slowly kind of getting back into work. Well, that's the thing. She's been a stay-at-home mom for the last seven years with our kids, and she's slowly kind of getting back into work. And my plan has always been to allow her to start working and basically take all the income that she would make from whatever job she has and to put that towards the loan.

What is your household income? What do you make? I make about $175 a year. Okay. No, I would not do that. I would just pay the loan. I'd just pay the loan off. You make $175,000 a year.

Let's get this mess cleaned up. This is your wife. For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health. Unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge, says in the old wedding vows in the Book of Common Prayer. They don't say that anymore, but that was the old days. And so that's what you did. It's not her loan now.

I know it's got her name on it, and technically it is her loan. But I'm saying relationally and everything else, you make $175,000 a year. This is hanging around your neck and income based repayment is just going to drag it out for 40 freaking years. Um, knock it in the head, be done with it in about two years, a hundred thousand dollars a year for two years of clean this mess up. Yeah. Goodness. Great. I mean, you know what, Dave? I get riled up when I hear that because. But still, if she hadn't married him, she'd be screwed. Oh, yeah. She's working two jobs trying to make payments.

And it's just, you know, people have sold the bill of goods that you've got to go to some fancy school. You got to go to this high price university if you're going to make anything of yourselves. And again, people hear me. We did the largest study of millionaires that's ever been done, talked to over 10,000 of them. Okay, over 10,000. And it was unbelievable because 62% of them went to public state universities. These are people that are millionaires. 8% went to community college. So you do not have to go to a hundred thousand dollar a year private school in order to be able to have and build wealth. Gosh. Well, the good news is that Seth, you guys are in a

position to clean this up. And so our recommendation would be to clean it up very, very quickly. Now, then the sidebar is for everyone listening. If you're going to get a degree in something before you spend money to get a degree, something before you spend money to get a degree before you spend a dollar to get a degree find out what that field of study pays yes and if you're going to be a forty thousand dollar a year social worker don't go two hundred thousand dollars in debt to get that degree because that's mathematically unpalatable it may in other, it'll throw up in the back of your mouth when you start talking about that kind of number. And so it's just the return.

It doesn't work. And social work is a noble, good profession, and it is a good thing to help families and hold them together and that kind of thing, but not when yours is falling apart. And so good news is in Seth's case that they can clean it up very, very quickly. And he's a new listener and he's trying to guide his way through this. But you've got this great income, dude. If I'm you, I'm just going to punch this thing in the nose and knock it out.

The rest of you get Anthony O'Neill's book, Debt-Free Degree, and figure out a way to go to school and study something that the income based on what you study makes sense based on what you spent to get the degree. So don't become a professional and spend your whole professional life paying off your degree. No, you're right, Dave. But you mentioned this. I mean, I'm thinking back, if you've got somebody that was single and he's dating someone, can you imagine the shock if you've never talked about money together? And all of a sudden you find out they've got two, three hundred thousand in student loan debt. Yeah. And, you know, it's so normal now that

people don't think anything about it. But, you know, and again, he obviously has a wonderful career. Yes. He's making a lot of money. So that probably came into the decision-making. It would make sense that it does. And that's all fair. That's all fair. But parents, and for those of you that are raised by wolves or something, listen up. Do not, you know, really think about what your return on investment is on education. All education is not bad, but all education is not worth the money.

That's right. And some of it isn't worth the money because mathematically, it's not a matter, it's not a moral call, it's not a judgment call. It's not like, oh, what is too expensive? Let me tell you what too expensive is. Too expensive is when you pay out a gazillion dollars more than you're ever going to get back that's too expensive that's right or then you'll get back as a result of your choice right then that's too expensive you can't do it so it's not a matter of it's two hundred thousand dollars i'm morally wrong, it's not. It's not at all.

But it doesn't make good, it's not logical to do that. Especially if you're paying cash for it, you wouldn't do it. No, you wouldn't. For a $40,000 a year job. Uh-uh. Learn to count. We're always going to have a job this is the dave ramsey show My co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show, Ramsey personality Chris Hogan is with me. Open phones at 888-825-5225. On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Jason and Valita are with us. Hey guys,

how are you? Thanks. Doing well. Thank you for allowing us to be here. Well, we're honored to have you. Where do you guys live? Burnsville, North Carolina. Which is near? Asheville. Asheville. Okay, cool. Beautiful area. Yes, sir. Yeah, very nice. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you very much. Good to have you guys all the way over here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? $100,220.

I love it. How long did this take? 25 months. Good. And your range of income during that time? From $73,000 to $110,000. Nice jump in two years. So cool. What do you guys do for a living?

I am a professional services consultant for architects, BIM, building information modeling software. I work for Graphisoft. Oh, cool. I'm a North Carolina State Home Inspector. Oh, very good. Good for you. Both great fields. And related.

Yeah. Good. So what kind of debt's the $100K? What's the $100K? Cars, student loans, and actually some land that went into foreclosure next to us that we wanted to make sure to control who our neighbors were. So we invested in that. So you made yourself your neighbor. Yes.

I like that. That's a plan. Okay. So congratulations. You were kind of normal just going along. So what happened 25 months ago? What lit you guys on fire? So actually, if you back up to 2006, the church I was attending, I went through the Financial Peace University, but I was always ish.

And then I met Jason, who was like baby steps. I don't even have debt. So and and so it was actually my, my best friend who, uh, 25 months ago had said, you know, I need to get out of debt. I'm doing the Dave Ramsey. And I'm like, yeah, but I like the last chapter first. So I'm jumping to Chris Hogan and I went to retired inspired and then I realized wow I'm way behind and and so that's uh what kind of made us realize actually made me get on the same page as my husband. Ah okay I got you. So how long have y'all been married? Almost five years. Okay well congratulations guys. Thank you. Yeah what was the hardest part about getting out of debt for you all well when we met um i had uh just finished building a house and had uh done it step by

step took me five years did most of the work by myself wow uh i'd work as a tool and die maker 50 plus hours a week and then work in the evenings, weekend vacation, finishing the house. And, uh, probably the biggest problem we had in our marriage was when the land became available and we were trying to figure out how to afford that. And, uh, when it was mentioned, maybe we mortgage the house. And I said, no, no, that's, that's not going to happen. There's a lot of blood and a lot of sweat and a lot of tears in this house I'm not putting it up yeah so coming up with the finances to do that was our our biggest challenge and to actually the hardest thing for me was actually go back in debt amen so but she was in debt when you married her then correct with two cars uh

student loan debt as well okay and you brought two cars into the marriage and um no it was one car and then i had persuaded him to get into debt with another car oh you did so then uh then she comes to you and says uh we want to do this dave ramsey thing and so jason what'd you say thank you jesus? Yes. I'm all on it. So she actually taught the course at church and gave her testimony at church. And so we've had a lot of cheering from that point. Yeah, that's very cool. Well, congratulations, you guys.

Thank you. I know for Jason it feels great. And really for you, Valita, I mean, you've kind of done a full transformation. So it's got to feel great for you yes it does now all that land that house those cars are all yours correct yes it's a different feeling isn't it it is especially with the way the world is right now oh yeah especially are you going to go back no no absolutely not no yeah you work too hard correct you know you work too hard and that. You know, you work too hard. And that little cute girl out there with you, who's that?

That's Paisley. She is a doll. Thank you. Very cool. That's amazing. Proud of you guys. So when you're teaching the class now, Valita, and somebody says, how do I get my wife on board? Because you were that wife he was trying to get to do this stuff, although he didn't really call it this stuff, just the way he lived.

Yeah. But what do you tell them the answer is to get somebody like you, so to speak, on board? Does that make sense? Absolutely. For me, and I think the connection is we all have debt, and it's a number, but when you actually sit down on paper and you see what you're paying in interest every month and i like to call that the debt membership um that is what has really been my message and connecting with those people is you're giving away a thousand dollars plus a month

to just be in debt ah okay good for you that's good i like it i like it, when people ask what the key to getting out of debt is, you too did it. You paid off $100,000 in just a little over two years. That's pretty impressive. How'd you do that? What's the key? One of the things I always tell is we'll have young people come up and they're like, well, it must be nice to live in this house and have this and this. And I said, well, you know, it didn't happen uh when you're so lucky

20 years old just smack them yep i do born of the silver spoon in my mouth yeah uh and i said while you're working a full job and driving nails at night exactly you're lucky yep yeah so i tell them that you know it doesn't happen when you're 20 years old that i was in my mid-40s before i lived in a house so yeah yeah um and know, just being able to keep the momentum. Anytime we had any extra money, we would apply that towards debt. Student loan debt, we sold our camper. We sold the Tahoe. And thankfully, I have a husband that can do almost anything.

And so he started flipping cars as well. And so that brought in extra revenue, doing construction as well. Oh, so extra work. A lot of extra work. Yeah, very cool. Not afraid of work around your place. I'm proud of you guys. Thank you.

You're very fun people. You're heroes. And Paisley's whole life has changed, and she doesn't even know it completely. She doesn't know. Pretty amazing. Yep. Pretty amazing. Her whole world is completely different from here on out.

Well done. We've got a copy of Chris's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is the next chapter in your story for sure. All that land and that house, you might almost be there now. That's pretty cool. Congratulations. Thank you. Very, very well done.

All right. Paisley, you've been practicing your debt-free scream? All right. Here we go. Jason, Valita, and Paisley, Asheville, North Carolina area. $100,000 paid off in 25 months, making $73,000 to $110,000. go jason valita and paisley ashville north carolina area a hundred thousand dollars paid off in 25 months making 73 to 110 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one way to go, you guys.

You know, what he did when he was a single guy is the way people, that's a throwback a few generations. That's the way people my grandpa's age would have done. You know, you work, my grandpa built a lake house that way. You know, they wanted a lake house. We called it they they wanted a they wanted a lake house we called it the cabin we called it but basically you know he would go after work and build that thing go down and it took two he'd drive 30 minutes over there and build and till it's too dark to build and um drove every nail put the thing together still still there wow still a nice house and um but there wasn't any way he was going into that to do it he just he just he just you know brought Still there. Wow. Still a nice house. But there wasn't any way he was going into that to do it.

He just brought it up with his hands, and that's what Jason did. And, you know, there's a lesson to be learned from that. Those are timeless principles. That required a lot of hard work, a lot of sacrifice, and a delayed pleasure. It took him a few years to build the house. That's right. It wasn't a 90-day build. No, and that sacrifice, that's time away build the house. That's right. It wasn't a 90-day build. No, and that sacrifice,

that's time away from your family, that's a lack of sleep. And let me tell you, when you do that, too, do you notice what happened? She says, let's borrow money on this house. He's like, no! Absolutely not. You know, that's... You got those calluses in your hand from having swung that hammer. No!

No! No. No way you're going to put it up to risk. And once you get out of debt, they've done it now in their whole lives. They ain't going back. Neither one of them will go back. No, they won't. Changed everything. I'm so proud of y'all.

Very well done. Very well done. You need people. Love it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our question of the day from blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your blinds for free.

Can't beat that. That's how you screw up and they fix it anyway. Guarantee. That's right. Free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos every month, you save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey. Chris, our question.

Yes, this comes from Kylie in Kentucky. She goes, my company offers a 401k plan, and I believe a small contribution. Do I put the full 15% into my 401k or only up to what they match? If it's the second part, what do I do with the difference? For example, if they only match up to 2%, do I contribute 2% and what do I do with other 13%? Kylie, this is a great question. And here's what you want to do. You want to contribute up to the match in your 401k, then go over to the Roth IRA to do the remainder.

If that doesn't get you to 15%, then go back to your 401k for what's remaining. That is if you don't have a Roth option in your 401k. That is correct. You got a Roth option in your 401k and you got great selectable. The mutual funds you can select from are really strong. You could just do it all right there. Right there. That's right.

Either one's fine. But you know, our rule of thumb is match beats Roth beats traditional. Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors. So, sort of. But it just goes one way. But the, yeah, so always take the match, then do all the Roth, and then do traditional until you get to 15% of your household income going to retirement.

She's got that part dialed in because she was using the 15% number to baseline everything on her baby step four. Absolutely. She's listening. And listen, everyone out there, the financial world has all kinds of terms. If you go to my website, ChrisHogan360.com, I've got a free investing guide that will break it down and explain. It talks about how the way Dave teaches to invest and how you can make sure your future isn't a dream, that you can make it become a reality. If you mess up on a home purchase, it is not a small thing.

There are no homes with small prices compared to other things that we do in our lives. And when you screw this up, it's stupid with zeros. So you want to get someone in your corner that really knows what they're doing and never again buy a house without the facts. Our team has created a one-stop shop for everything home buyers need to know go to Dave Ramsey dot com slash home buying it's free get the answers you need to make the decisions on that and again you can check out for these financial terms that Chris mentioned at Chris Hogan 360.com again free lots and lots and lots of content on all of our sites uh that's there to just simply answer your question and help you and uh i think we were doing a inventory of our website the other

day i think there's 4200 pages on our website of articles wow and so um you know there's stuff there is what it amounts to and whether it's your your site or Rachel Cruz's site or whoever, certainly the DaveRamsey.com, there is a lot of stuff that we've poured in over the years, and that library has just gotten really thick. That's what it amounts to. All right. Ann is with us in Virginia. Hi, Ann.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you both for answering my question. I'll make it quick. We're in baby step two and we're on the last two debts. Great. One is a home equity line of credit and the other is the iceberg Fed loan. The reason I'm calling is when I look at FedLoan, we never consolidated. So we have like all these little loans that are less than the home equity line. So my question is, do I still, which is $10,300, and then when you add up all of them, it's a big FedLoan. Do you recommend still going from least to most no matter what the big pile is, or should I look at the individual loans? Now, we don't go by category, but we go by individual loans on your debt snowball.

Okay. Because I just want you to see the yaha moment, the woo-hoo, you know, every so often when you knock one of those puppies out. Yep. So how much is your home equity loan? $10,000. Oh, so the whole thing's not but $20,000, the whole pile. No, no, no, no,000. Oh, so the whole thing's not but $20,000, the whole pile. No, no, no, no, no.

The home equity loan is $10,000, but the Fed loan altogether, all those little loans, is $42,000. Oh, okay. So $50,000 gets you out. What's your household income? $100,000. Okay. So when are you going to be out? I hope.

Well, it won't be by the end of this year. It won't be by the end of this year. It won't be by the end of this year. 12, 14 months? I hope so. That would be $50,000 out of $100,000, right? Yeah. And did you feel that nudge from Dave? I heard him.

You heard that? And see, that's the difference. And I heard your brain clicking. See, that's the difference between hoping and planning. See, when you start planning, baby, you you start planning it gets real and you get serious so let's ask one more time when you're going to do this thing in a year we had a girl that's good you can do it i mean if you lay it out you lay it out lay out the math with your husband and just sit down and you said we right there's two of you oh yeah yeah yeah he's on board yeah. Yeah, lay it out.

And then if it comes out 13 or 14 months, it's okay. It's not a bad thing. But it's just really good to have that laid out real clear. And then you kind of go, hey, I'm ahead of schedule. Or, hey, I'm a little behind schedule. I've got to turn something up. That's what I need to be ahead of schedule. Yeah.

I want to be ahead of schedule. Yeah, but you've got to have a schedule in order to do that. Right. That's the thing. Okay, I just didn't know, because Fed i understand i hate them all too yeah so go ahead and knock out the go ahead and knock out the little ones are any of your forty thousand dollars of student loans are any single loans greater than ten thousand no okay so you're gonna the home equity loan will be last and the debt snowball then and you're gonna just you're just gonna run

the table on these little ones and dave here's one of the things she said and and you know she said you know i didn't have she didn't have a plan a schedule and a schedule but she also needs to be able to track and to also not do it alone and that's exactly what we have available for people in ramsey plus you're going to have access to tools to be able to see exactly where you are in the debt snowball but you also have people in your corner cheering you on and i think you know that to have access to tools to be able to see exactly where you are in the debt snowball, but you also have people in your corner cheering you on. And I think, you know, that to me is going to be the absolute game changer for that program. Yeah. You know, you've got to have people.

What we found years ago when we first started teaching Financial Peace University, I taught it with an overhead projector and a bad suit. And we figured out real quick that personal finance is 80 behavior and the people sitting in small groups after i finished teaching and um encouraging each other when they were scared yeah and busting each other when they were being a little bit prideful uh that accountability like that broke through more than my teaching did. It's kind of distressing because I like to think of myself as a good teacher, but the groups were much more magical in changing people's lives than I was standing up there with an overhead projector. And it's still true today.

I mean, you and I are world-class communicators, but we're not as good as people sitting kneecap to kneecap, looking you in the eye and saying, you can do this. I know you're scared, but you can do this. Yep. No, you're absolutely right. Or don't go do that. Stupid's lurking around that corner. Yep. You know, and that's powerful in anything to have a group of people around you, lifting

you up and keeping you between the guardrails is just, man, anything you want to do. No, it really does. And I'm going to tell you, Dave, I figured out fear and worry want you to be isolated. And hope wants you to be connected. And community, I tell you, it just, when you let down that guard and you go, here's where I am and here's where I want to be. Now, how do I get there? Who do I need in my life?

What do I need in my life? And what's the direction I'm going? And when you would get past that pride moment and you reach out and you grab onto something that can get you there, you'll start to make changes in your life. Well, and sometimes you need to turn loose of some stuff and you got to have people loving you enough to help you do that. That's right. That's right.

Sometimes trying to lose the stuff is harder than adding things, you know, adding elements. And, um, you know, in our, in our case with financial peace, it's usually some stuff. Right. You know, amputate the Tahoe, baby. You know, there's some stuff to happen here. But you just need somebody to say, you know, I did the same thing. It's okay. You'll be all right.

Yeah. You're going to live through it. Yeah. And you're going to get out of debt faster and you're going to be glad you did it. But it helps having somebody in your corner like that so that's what the show ends up being too for some people this show where people just listen to other people call in with their problems they go yeah i kind of feel that i kind of get that other people are just entertained by the craziness that calls in here i get that too but but this this community around the Dave Ramsey Show and around the Ramsey Solutions Group that is this tribal thing that is happening out there,

if you guys will plug into it in a positive way, not try to tear everything down, you'll find it'll lift you up. Yeah, it will. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Madison, filling in for Kelly today. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top four most popular podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration from the Ramsey Network, subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.