The Ramsey Show - App - You Don’t Have to Stay Broke

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

🎟️ ⁠The Ramsey Show Live Tour: Tell us where we should go next!⁠ Rachel Cruze and Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "I'm broke and overextended on my home," "What shoul...d I do with a life insurance payout?" "How do I overcome my anxiety around renting?" "We're newly married and behind on our bills. How do we catch up?" "My fiancé wants me to use my savings to renovate his parents' home," "Why do you encourage kids to move out at a young age?" "Should I focus on my or my wife's debt first?" "In our situation, can we combine finances before we get married?" Next Steps: ✔️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠send us an email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 📱 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get episodes early in the free Ramsey Network app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💵⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⛓️‍💥 ⁠Tired of debt? Grab Breaking Free From Broke now!⁠ 📚 ⁠Set and actually reach your goals with the NEW 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner! Hurry—they sell out every year!⁠ 📈⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Stop paying more and start shopping smarter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ALDI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ BetterHelp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more. For more information, go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SimpliSafe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Nokbox⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY. Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for your free instant quote today!  Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💡 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rachel Cruze Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🪑 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 This is the Ransy Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us today. Triple-8-8-25-5-2-2-25 is the phone number, AAA 825-25-2-25. Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. You ready to go, partner? I'm ready, partner. What a good day. It's a good day.
Starting point is 00:00:39 Lacey joins us first in Jacksonville, Florida. Lacey, how can we help? Yes, I'm just trying to get advice. I'm kind of stuck financially. I purchased my home about $400,000 beginning of 2024 with the interest rates. it's not really affordable I thought that I could refinance but it's really I make the good salary but I'm kind of living paycheck to paycheck unable to pay the debt that I have it's kind of just there hanging around not going anywhere and I just want to get out of this
Starting point is 00:01:20 house or I don't really have a solution to remedy this poor, financial decision that I made for myself. Okay. Lacey, how much is your house payment every month? 3,100. 3,100. And how much are you bringing home? After taxes, I bring home about, let's see, 56. Oh, my gosh.
Starting point is 00:01:52 $100. Yeah, yeah, you can't afford this house. I mean, that leaves you, yeah, I mean, that leaves you, yeah, $2,000-ish dollars per month. How much are your debt payments on everything else? Usually over $1,000, my car note is about $400 because I put down about $15,000 on my car, so I owe about $19. And then slowly, you know, throughout the last couple years, I used credit cards here and there. But when I initially purchased the home, I didn't have any credit. card debt.
Starting point is 00:02:27 I did do an FHA mortgage, so I do have PMI. But, yeah, it was definitely a poor financial. I just, I wanted a newer home and wanted a private office space. And I don't know, you know, I've looked at foreclosure, short sale, but the homes kind of, you know, a lot hasn't been taken off of, you know, besides my down payment because of how much is going towards interest. So, you know, it's still about 365. For sure. Well, and I'm just wondering, even with your car payment and other debt,
Starting point is 00:03:06 I mean, you probably only have $1,000 to do everything, Lacey, to eat and to pay your bills. I mean, electricity and all of it. Are you going into credit card debt every month to keep just your basics afloat? Yeah, basically. And then I, the cycle is vicious because, you know, know, I pay the payments, and then, you know, I'm broke, you know, within a week or less after I'm paid. I just want to ask the obvious. Are you single? I am single.
Starting point is 00:03:40 I am. Why did you pause? Is there something else we don't know? Yeah, that's something there. What were you pausing about? Well, I do have my boyfriend. I let him move in with me, but I don't know how. long-term that's going to be, and I don't really rely upon that, and his income is substantially
Starting point is 00:04:00 less, so I don't really count on his... Is he paying anything? He does pay, you know, about 25 to 30 percent, but it's not enough to give me reprieve or to really make a dent in the, you know, what's on my plate. Everything's in my name. And... No, no, I get that. We would never suggest otherwise. I just, I don't know why I decided to ask that. I had an inkling, but the point is, is he needs to be, if he's the roommate, I don't care what your relationship status is, he needs to be doing more than that, Rachel. Am I right? Yeah, I mean, 25%?
Starting point is 00:04:38 In the short term, but, I mean, I would get out of this house. Yeah, I would put this house up for sale. Yeah, that's the, that's the play. Take whatever lumps you're going to take on this, but you've got to remove this. Yeah, and I would just go rent, Lacey. I would not be a homeowner right now because your finances are all over the place. You have, so you have a $19,000 car loan. What credit card debt do you have?
Starting point is 00:04:57 How much? About $20,000 total. I added it up. Okay. What other debt is there? Well, there's student loan debt. How much is that? It's about $100,000 total.
Starting point is 00:05:14 What did you get your degree in? Nursing. Is that what you do now? Is that what you do now? Yes. Okay. Why aren't she doing overtime? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:05:25 Well, I work for a private sector right now, but I do have, I'm about to start a second job to do outside nursing. Great. But by the way, that's what you've got to do. I just want to throw that in real quick. Rachel, I know interrupted. But with your nursing skill, you have got to be working like a crazy woman right now to get the rest of this step. Forget the house part, but we've got to clean up the house. and then the rest of the stuff, but you've got to, there's no life for you.
Starting point is 00:05:55 You are using a very valuable skill to be making as much money as possible. And by the way, we've had, I remember a debt-free scream, Rachel, it was probably over a year ago, and it was a travel nurse, and she paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. And she just worked like an absolute maniac. So I just want to give you that lacy. Sorry, Rachel. No, no.
Starting point is 00:06:16 What's that? For how long. She did it for about two and a half years. It was a short amount of time. yeah i mean i would be looking into some creative solutions just to get your head above water lacy if you do you know how much the house is worth right now you that's the thing is it's it's worth about 385 and i owe about one 370 on it because like much hasn't gone away so i think that i'm going to come out of negative yeah it may be a little bit negative um but i would rather do
Starting point is 00:06:45 that and free up 3100 a month now you'll have to pay rent somewhere uh but even if you can find the place for 1800 right i mean like it just this starts to free up well if you're shacking up with a boyfriend he needs to pay half am i wrong about that no no you're okay i just want to make sure it may not be long term because it's not really that beneficial to me yeah what he's not yeah yeah well kick him to the curb why do we you have no life right now you're working so hard we don't have time for a boyfriend yeah i'd kick him to the curb he's a listen he's a he's a He's a financial deadbeat anyway. I know.
Starting point is 00:07:26 I mean, come on. Let's be honest. Any dude worth his weight in salt would have said, I'm going to pay half, babe, right? But no, he's free-loading off of you to the tune to 25%. Did you say major turn off? Yeah. Yes, I love that.
Starting point is 00:07:41 That's great. Yeah, so Lacey, yeah, this house is killing you. Okay. And I know you know that. But that's exactly what I would do. I would sell it. Hopefully as soon as possible. I mean, obviously you don't want to be, you don't want to be too urgent because you don't want to, like, sell low, but get a great real estate agent.
Starting point is 00:07:57 If you go to Ramsey Solutions.com and check out our ELPs, we have real estate agents all across the country, and get someone who is good at this. This is what they do. They sell houses. They sell a lot of houses. And you may take a small loss, but that is going to be so worth it because it's going to free up your income. And then you have to start attacking this debt. But in the meantime, Lacey, make sure food, shelter, utilities, transportation. is current. Don't get behind on the house. Make sure those things are current. And then you've got to step up with the income and you got to pay the set off. Yeah, you have a good two, three, four-year journey ahead of you. But I think it's bright. I think your future's bright and you can do this. It's just some hard, big decisions you have to make with the house and Ken's advice, the boyfriend. I'm going to sum it up. Two big decisions. We're kicking the boyfriend out and then we're listing the house. Very simple. Life's going to get better immediately. All right, let's go to Angela, who's joining us in Illinois.
Starting point is 00:08:57 Angela, how can we help today? Hi, thank you so much for taking my phone call. So I'll give a short scenario of kind of what happened. So I'm a 36-year-old female, and my fiancé passed on a motorcycle accident about a month and a half ago or so. Angela. I'm so sorry. My goodness.
Starting point is 00:09:17 Thank you. That's so tragic. How long have you guys? Were you guys together for? About eight years. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and so being three weeks from us getting married, we set ourselves up for, like, a very strong financial future, just like if anything were to ever happen.
Starting point is 00:09:36 So I received his life insurance policy, and so I'm kind of in this, like, I didn't expect him to lose them this early in our journey together. And so I'm trying to find out at 36 years old, and his life insurance policy was 301,000 and some change of that. And after all of our debt is paid, I'm sitting on a chunk of about $120,000. Okay. I make about $71,000 before taxes. I'm going to be getting a Social Security check for my son that we had together for essentially. you know his social security and then what's that amount I have not had a conclusive amount yet but I
Starting point is 00:10:25 they had estimated somewhere between 900 to 2100 dollars estimated per month and because we weren't married I don't get like a you know a part of that but I like I said to be 36 years old I find myself in a position that I never really anticipated right um and in terms of like he's five Okay. So my heart is kind of telling me I'd like to build a generational wealth for us and then for him. And so I've been looking at like compound interest of that type of thing. And then everybody else has kind of like persuaded this idea of estates and what I should be doing with it. And I feel like at this point, my taxes are relatively cheap, like right around $2,100 a year.
Starting point is 00:11:14 electric gas. I have also the amenities, but my house value, I would say right around like $170,000, $180,000 with two acres, five bedrooms. We just bought during COVID at a really great time. And so I just feel like my net worth has been, you know, post all of this, I just feel like, I'm just really in a position that I don't want to be, I don't want to be weak in this $120,000. I feel like it's given an opportunity. Can I ask you something, Angela, because it goes from 301 to 120. Is that paying off the house?
Starting point is 00:11:55 That's paying off our house. Okay. All of both vehicles that we have, a camper. Have you already done all that? I'm in the midst of, I just paid off the camper because I had a higher interest rate than what I We were planning on moving it over to a lower interest rate with my work because I had a better credit union. And then the motorcycle that he passed on, he only held that debt. So that essentially is not part of this life insurance policy concept.
Starting point is 00:12:28 Well, the reason I asked, I didn't mean to rabbit trail you, but we want to make sure that you actually do this. This is great because that's going to get you there to where you got 120 left. So the question is, what do you do with the 120? So with all the debt gone, you're going to need an emergency fund. Do you have, did you already have an emergency fund for you because you guys were not married? Do you have any of that at all? Yeah, and I think that's where I'm kind of stuck in that is that what is an emergency? I mean, for me, like, you know, three months' worth of bills was where I was sitting with an emergency fund that we fit with cash inside of our safe.
Starting point is 00:13:03 So that was just the idea of anybody took anything out of our bank accounts that was there. That's not what we would tell you to do. And you know what three months expenses are. You already have done that. How much is it? How much would three months be? Well, prior to all of the debt being paid off, it's right around $13,000. And you're saying you already have that set aside in cash, correct?
Starting point is 00:13:26 Yeah. Okay. We were always worried about the digital part, right, of something being stolen. so just having it here. Yeah, well, okay, yeah, you can just put it in a high-yield savings account. It's FDIC insured. You are safe.
Starting point is 00:13:41 Yeah, you'll be good with that. And I would bump it up to 20 because you have a son. And, again, just as some cushion. So I would put 20 grand, which you already have 13, so it's an extra 7 coming out. So that leaves you with a, yeah, 113,000.
Starting point is 00:13:56 And, you know, Angela, you could, with this amount of money, I would, I would spread it over three different ways. And if you feel like you don't need to spend any of it and you just want to put it aside, you can totally do that. You could put the whole chunk of it
Starting point is 00:14:12 just in an index fund and it would grow to probably $2, $3 million by the time you're $65 without even touching it. So that in itself would be a life-changing account, right? That you could just put away and not even look at. You barely even have to manage it. and so that's an option you could also use some of this money and open up a 529 for your son
Starting point is 00:14:37 and put a chunk of money in there and let that grow for him so when it's time for college that he has a hundred thousand dollars you know 120 sitting in there for college you know there's some things you can definitely do but i will say 113 it'll go fast like when you start to actually kind of divvy it out but i i the the amount of intentionality with it I feel from you because it's from him, right? I'm like, you want this legacy of him of your fiancé, the love of your life, the father of your son, to live on well. And so there's different ways you could do that from giving, saving, and even spending some
Starting point is 00:15:16 of it. Yeah, I agree with Rachel. What do you have as far as 401K or any type of retirement accounts? Yeah. So when we purchased my house, I did pull a little bit of money from my 401K. But right now, I mean, my 401K is gross. I apologize I did not look before the circumstance, but I mean, I do plan on continuing to work just because I just, there's just, you know, intentionality of just having health insurance for my son. And then also I would like, my idea of this compound interest is where my brain sort of caught on to.
Starting point is 00:15:49 I think Rachel's advice is great. Here's what I would add. I would tell you, too, if you don't have a true smart investor pro in your life, go to Ramsey'syslutions.com and go interview three or four or five. find out which one you click with the most. This is just all about some basic likeability chemistry thing and then get their opinions. Have them, because we've told you, and we'll recap what we would do with the 113.
Starting point is 00:16:13 I'm with Rachel. That's the number I've got because the 7's going to get your emergency fund up to where I think is the right number. So let's say you've got 113 to work with. I would get a smart investor, I get multiple to tell them what they would do with it and explain it to where you get it. But I'm with Rachel.
Starting point is 00:16:27 I would, what I would do is I would ask a SmartVestor pro, okay, I got a five-year-old. How much money of the 113 would catch them up, assuming I was, let's say $100,000 was our goal. You can talk through this. Okay, well, he's five. I'm five years behind. So how much of the 113 do I put in that would catch him up? They can give you that number. And then what do I need to put in, you know, monthly or do I take a lump sum here and go, all right, because you got the $900.
Starting point is 00:16:53 Let's say the minimum Social Security payments, $900. You said it was between $9 or $2,100. I'd talk to them about that too and go, do I put in a lump sum out of the 113, Rachel, into the 529, and then take the entire or a good portion of the Social Security check and put that in because that's for him. And then you take the rest of the, let's say it's 100, just for conversation. I'm with Rachel. I would invest that and let that just build because we don't have to run the investment calculator,
Starting point is 00:17:22 but I'm telling you that's going to double every seven years. That's what the historical return is. and so you're a young lady, and so that $100,000 boost you and get you really going, above and beyond what you're already doing with the 15% as we teach here in Baby Step 4. But I think you've got a clear-cut strategy, but I think you should sit down with a professional and get them to partner with you, and let's use this wisely. And not to, you know, Ken just said this, and I don't think we've said it in the call, Angela, but consistently now I want you investing 15% of your income into retirement above and beyond this 113, okay?
Starting point is 00:17:54 So that's going to be Roth IRAs, your 401K. And if you're doing that through your income and you have a jump start, maybe take some of this. And the SmartVistR program would say, hey, yeah, take, you know, 7,000,000 of it and let's fund your 401 or your Roth for the year. And, you know, you can find some smart ways to move it around. But I do think your initial reaction of investing in this compound interest, I think is really wise. And that's where, that's probably where I would lean for sure, whether investing for your son's future part of it with college, you for retirement in the future. and also for that emergency fund. So, gosh, Angela, I'm so sorry that this money came and how it came,
Starting point is 00:18:30 but I appreciate your diligence. All right, folks, the 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner is here. I feel like Roger Goodell announcing the NFL draft. Very exciting. The 2026. Let me get this. Oh, my gosh. It's heavy.
Starting point is 00:18:52 This is not a one-arm planner. It's a heavy, heavy. Note to those of you who love planners, this is going to require you doing some basic weightlifting. This is unbelievable, and I guess we're offering it at 3597. It's a curious price. A little bit less than $36. Yep. And I'm telling you, folks, you could hurt a person with this. And I think this is the lowest price. So you moms out there could use this as a paddle. Does anybody do that anymore? I don't think so. I was thinking of more self-defense. I know. I'm old school. Someone comes, if you're in a dark alley, ladies, this bring out this spiral thing here. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:19:29 That'll cut a man. Well, and we're, because it's launching now, it is the lowest price. Lowest price. And it will continue to go up because these are very, they're very valuable planners. But we do a quick, we do a quick launch early on with lowest price. You know what I like? A little ruler right here on the inside. It takes me back to the trapper keeper days.
Starting point is 00:19:47 Yes. I wish I had some Velcro. A little Velcro that's going to say, too. You know what, 2027? Does a throwback? trap or keeper option. Oh, yes. I'll talk to the team. But now, Rachel's right. If you don't get this before Labor Day, the price is going up. In fact, it's going up so much that it's not even on my notes here. So that tells me, it's going up. Yeah, that's right. So you better get it right now
Starting point is 00:20:06 for $35.97. So it has content in it from John. John Deloney, myself, and Jade Warshall, relationship, spirituality, your money. And then there's also obviously all the calendars from like the month outlook to a lot of tabs to the weekly all of it but the planner world can it's a world out there there are women that live in this world can you detect and it is I can't stand my wife still uses one of these she loves this I know when we do dates yeah I'm on my phone she's over here with this flipping her calendar open oh I know but I do get it my wife loves this Stacy's going to be thrilled it's beautiful I might take this one James can I take this one home surprise daisy you may not okay james says no that's show prop you can buy your own i love it
Starting point is 00:20:57 it was so polite and at the lowest price ever 35 dollars and 97 cents only at ramsysolutions dot com slash store ramsysolutions dot com slash store maybe kelly the associate producer will get a free one maybe i don't know i don't know if it's a perk you have to talk to james all right lorry's up next in canada lori how can we help well hi ken hi rachel thank you so much for taking my call. Rachel, it's nice to talk to you again. I was on the phone with you and Jade about a month or so ago.
Starting point is 00:21:30 And so I'm hoping to expand a little bit on my question a little bit. I did follow your advice. My question was whether to get a mobile home or rent. Yes, I remember this, yes. And what did Rachel tell you? To get around to it,
Starting point is 00:21:45 but I am following your advice. And now my question comes, there's a new question that comes up actually. So I'm 27 years old. I have about $28,000 in student debt. I earn about $4,000 a month after tax. And so I'll be relocating three hours away for a job, currently living with family rent-free, and now with that move, I'll be renting. I was going to be done Baby Step 2 in March of 2026, but now with this
Starting point is 00:22:20 move, I'm going to be delaying my debt-free date by 12 to 14 months, just based on the numbers I've crunched. You're making less money? No, well, I'll be renting now and right now I'm not renting at all. That's right, you're living free. That's right. Okay, so we have a $1,200 increase.
Starting point is 00:22:41 What about the income increase? I'm not increasing income. yet. There's a few variables that are still unknown, but I should know soon if I will be getting an increase in income in a few months. But, like, I have a part-time job right now. I'll be losing that. It's just creating a lot of anxiety and fear around paying off debt. I feel really demoralized about this way. So hold on. What's demoralizing you? Is it the increase in cost, because you're living for free now and is it also that you're losing this part-time job is that are those the
Starting point is 00:23:20 sources of feeling demoralized because I'm going backwards um it's more so just a debt-free date that's being pushed back by so much like if those are the two reasons are more are those the two primary reasons here I'm setting you up those are the two primary reasons why you're moving the date right yes okay so let's let's look at how we would maybe not move the date okay first of all we don't know yet what your increase in income is going to be. True or false? True. True. And there are part-time jobs where you're moving, true or false? True. It has been very difficult, though. I've been applying actually prematurely just in hopes to get some responses, but I have yet to receive anything. How much? Okay. I get it. But let's
Starting point is 00:24:07 have a mindset here that it is possible. Isn't it true that it's possible that you can find a part-time job at some point upon moving. Is that possible? It is. Okay, great. Now, tell Rachel and I, how much money of that income that you're bringing home that you told us, how much of that is from the part-time job? It's not, actually. So with the part-time job, I get an additional, like, $500 to $1,000 a month. I don't work a lot of hours where I'm currently working in my part-time job. And also, we're in the low season right now. Okay. So what I would tell you, Lori, is to find something that you make $1,200 a month. Mm-hmm. And that's part of this Baby Step 2 process.
Starting point is 00:24:50 It's cutting all expenses and bringing in extra income, and it's scorched earth. So instead of it extending an additional 12 months, because you are going to be out by March, which is pretty soon. I mean, that's, you know, six months. Yeah. Is that right? Eight months, eight months. I love to count on the week. That's fun. I had to count the months real quick. make sure that was correct.
Starting point is 00:25:11 So, yeah, so eight months, and now you're saying it's going to be an additional year because of you don't have a part-time job right now and the rent. So what I would make it a goal is to say, it may not be March, but it's going to be June. Like, it's not going to be another year and work like crazy. That's all you have to do for eight months. Eight months, all you got to do is just spend nothing, you know, take your expenses all the way down. And then that extra income is what is key for a lot of people that get out of debts. That's what we find.
Starting point is 00:25:44 And again, it's not forever. Yeah. But it's literally just through the Christmas season, into the spring, and then you have your end date and you're good. And Lori, what about a roommate? I've considered those options. I've asked around friends and things like that. There hasn't been anybody interested. Lori, listen, let me tell you what's going on.
Starting point is 00:26:05 And I'm saying, can I be a big brother here? you have the spirit of I can't do it it's so hard and I love that you called back and I love that you're being honest with us but you're every time we present a solution to you and the way you set the entire call up is I'm overwhelmed which means and I've talked to a lot of overwhelmed people in my time at Ramsey Solutions and the reason they're overwhelmed is because they don't believe they don't believe okay so What we've been attempting to do is to go, wait a second, is it possible? And that was my little game that I did with you a little bit early because the thing that's
Starting point is 00:26:43 going on with you is you've actually done so well, you're committed, and now you've had a change of life, and it has thrown you off. But this is all mindset. This is not some like kumbaya technique. I'm trying to tell you, you've got to go, wait a second. This is how I feel. That's real. And I don't in any way want to minimize your emotions.
Starting point is 00:27:02 However, you feel that way because you've not allowed your mind. mind to actually look for solutions. You just saw roadblock. I got to move now. Now I'm not getting rent free. I'm actually paying rent. Well, welcome to the real world. You've been living in la la land with no rent. Good for you. But this is real life. This is not the end of the world. Okay. So Rachel and I've walked you through these scenarios. And I'm telling you, I want to encourage you, you can find a roommate. You can find a part-time job. And if you do those things, as Rachel said, you won't have to push back the timeline. And dare I say, if you get a roommate, I think you can beat the debt-free payoff.
Starting point is 00:27:42 Go even earlier. Let's cut it from 1,200 to 600. Yep. Yeah. And Lori, I want you to know that this is possible. You know, you're not trying to find $10,000 a month. It's a thousand bucks. You can do it.
Starting point is 00:27:55 You can do it. And we believe in you. Yes. So go. You know, take this situation and say, I'm going to have. happen to it not let it happen to me we believe in you you got this all right if you uh not sure how you're doing on staying in step with the baby steps we have a quick quiz that allow you to check your progress and get a personalized plan go to the show notes if you're listening to
Starting point is 00:28:24 be a podcast and youtube click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps quick little quiz and that'll let you know where you stand. It's very important that you understand in any kind of process-oriented goal, okay? I'm on this path that there are going to be just times in life
Starting point is 00:28:45 where you just feel like you're off-step and seeing where you stand, knowing where you stand is really huge to mentally getting back on track so you can keep going. So that's a fabulous little quiz. We'd love for you to join us there. Leo is up in San Diego, California.
Starting point is 00:28:58 Leo, how can we help today? Uh, how you doing? Uh, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. Um, so, um, me and my wife were newlyweds, been married and got married, uh, February 14th. Congratulations. Oh, a little Valentine's Day wedding. Nice. Yeah, yeah, it was, was good. Um, we've been together, a total about three and a half years. Uh, we've been, we got our own apartment about a little, about two years ago. And our mother-in-law, well, she wasn't my mother-law. first but she decided she offered to help us with rent um so we took her up on the offer and everything was going good until we got married a couple of months after we got married she started harassing my wife like through text message like just all kinds of just mean and dirty just vile things just like um just me things and then um that's fun so she uh we basically decided to just you know um she kind of just decline her help because she was um kind of putting stipulations on it like one where she called and said if you want our rent if you want my half of the rent this month
Starting point is 00:30:10 you had to prove to me x y z which was no problem because we proved it to her but it would that you know it was just like out of nowhere you know well she out of nowhere started harassing her own daughter. This woman's Craig Craig. Yes. Did you know she was crazy before you married? Yes. Well, what are you? Okay. Quick life lesson. I tried. Don't ever, ever, ever
Starting point is 00:30:33 fight your instinct on relationship stuff with family members. Because if crazy is in the family, there's more crazy he's going to show up. So let's move forward on this. Put up a boundary. Put up a boundary. Yeah. can't yeah yes we our boundary was blocking her um so that was that's that's that but ever since ever since before before we decided to um stop taking her help we were doing great with staying up on
Starting point is 00:31:02 our our bills were paid on time everything was good um but we didn't save we didn't save anything my wife was saying hey we need to save but me being bad with money we made i made very bad decisions and we ended up in a situation where we didn't have an any, we weren't ready for this situation that we were in. You weren't ready for a period, because I'm just going to rewind real quick. You got, you've said twice now that you guys were great at paying everything while she was giving you money, which means you weren't ever great because you didn't have enough money to pay your bills.
Starting point is 00:31:34 So, exactly, exactly. All right, so where do we stand today? Her money's gone. Thank goodness. How short are you? Okay, so we are paying the rent, but we are late every month. So every check, we're, we're coming. up with the like we're catching up so this next month first of the month we're going to be short
Starting point is 00:31:54 the next check after that we'll catch up okay how much how much you guys make per month what do you both bring in between us we bring probably oh i don't know the month between us i just did the yearly um a yearly between both of us is 50k between the both of you is 50k yes what do you guys do for a living Aerospace Manufacturing, and she's a barista in a hotel. Okay. I love that you said you do aerospace manufacturing, but let's get real. What is your job? You're only making $25,000 a year average between the two of you.
Starting point is 00:32:31 What are you doing? I do deburring, which is like the lowest. I am currently in training. Like, I do have C&C experience. I'm in training. Like, within the next year, I do plan on moving up. I'm in the process of moving out to a two C&C position. How much would you make?
Starting point is 00:32:47 Which will come with a raise. Probably about $2 or $3 or more. Probably about $25, 28 at the max, I'm guessing. That's after, you know, I get some schooling and more training. Leo, how old are you guys? I am 39. We're both 39. Okay.
Starting point is 00:33:03 39. You guys, you don't even know what you make. So it's really hard for Rachel to coach you up on. You don't even know how much you make. You've just given us, we got a $50,000 figure. So what debt did you? Here's what's going to happen, Leo. I'm going to be really honest with you, okay?
Starting point is 00:33:16 If Ken and I were out to drinks with you and you're newly wed wife. This is what I like this. This is what I would say to you. Cocktail wisdom. Here comes. I would say everything you've known and thought and done with money, we're going to do the complete opposite. Good decision. Okay. Meaning you don't really know where your money's going. You don't really know how much you make or bring in a month. That's going to change. You're going to know to the scent because you are going to be so detailed, so intense, so OCD about your money and where every dollar is going that you're going to be able to rattle off
Starting point is 00:33:51 what you guys spend at the grocery store every week, okay? Because you guys are going to have a very, very detailed budget. And we're going to give you some stuff, Leo, to help you help this happen, okay? But that's the thing is... And I'm going to be honest, too, Leo, you guys, you know, your jobs, what you're making, you guys need to be making double.
Starting point is 00:34:10 So she's working as a barista. If I were her, I would be applying to be receptionist somewhere right go be an assistant to someone like go you have to be in this position because you're both adults now and and if you want to have a family and you guys want to you know extend your lives these incomes have to go up which means probably a change of career probably more for her yours sounds like it hopefully has some well taking off it's taking off she has kids so we already have kids in the like they're her kids they're my step kids okay um so we Their kids are definitely in the – they're not full-time with us.
Starting point is 00:34:48 Sure. Leo, Leo, Leo. It's a – okay. Hold on. We have limited – no, no, you're great. We're trying to help you. How much do you make per hour? Okay.
Starting point is 00:34:54 Do you know that? I make $21 an hour. Okay. So a year from now, you think or believe you're going to get a $2 to $3 an hour raise. Yes. That's not a career that's – Yeah, but that's not a career that's taken off. Yes.
Starting point is 00:35:12 You're not taken off. You're on the doorstep of 40. and you've got to get serious. I'm not beating up on you. I'm just going, dude, like, you've got to have a plan that moves you forward, not a year from now to a $2 to $3 raise. Okay? Yes, you're right.
Starting point is 00:35:32 So we need to collectively get together and say, what do we want for our lives? What's a target? Exactly. What must be true for us to make $100,000 combined? And you guys, listen, time is moving, bro. Yes, you're right. You're right. You're right. We don't have time at 39 to wait a year to make a $2 to $3 bump. And Leo, what do you guys go on your cars? What are y'all on your cars? So, okay, so I own my vehicle that I just purchased under a year ago, but it's given me issues.
Starting point is 00:36:07 So getting a second job has been, it's a possibility, but just you're having a car. No, no, no, no. See, that's the problem. What is, what is she, what is she own hers? Her, she owes 1500 on her car. Oh, okay, okay. Okay, what, uh, what other debt do you guys have? Credit card? We have, wait, $1,500 total is what she owes.
Starting point is 00:36:26 That's what's left on her loan for her car. Yes. Great, yes. Great, great, great. Our debt and credit is all, we only have are credit card debt, which is $8,000. Okay, okay. Okay, so tonight. And that's all our debt.
Starting point is 00:36:39 All your debt. That's great. That's awesome. Okay. So I would cut up the credit cards. Don't even make it a temptation. your goal for next month is what that's great we'll cut them up anyways I don't well you have a balance you got $8,000 yeah yeah I mean like we don't have a thing available to spend on it so you're right like
Starting point is 00:36:56 oh it's maxed out okay perfect you say you say it's not a good thing no I'm embarrassed about it no Leo okay so no you're doing this is great okay so here's what I want you to do when you get off this call okay you both need to apply for second jobs your goal is to get a thousand emergency funds, okay, in the next 60 days, 30 days, 40 days, and catching up on rent. Those are your two goals, emergency fund and catching up on rent. With the second job should help free up some of that cash. And then once that happens, you guys start paying off this debt. Smallest, the largest, the car, and then the credit cards.
Starting point is 00:37:36 You can do this, Leo. Stay on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll give you some stuff. This is The Ramsey Show, where we. help you win with your money, winning your work, and winning your relationships alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman.
Starting point is 00:37:50 Happy to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is AAA 825-5-2-25. Meg is up next in Utah. Meg, how can we help today? Hi. My fiancé is asking me to spend my life-saving from before I met him into renovating his parent's home. Have you asked him if he's lost his ever-loving mind?
Starting point is 00:38:18 Well, I save the money for a car, and we had a baby, so we live in SED home. We plan on purchasing said home, but we haven't done any of those things yet. You just rolled right by my very pertinent and relevant question, Meg. Your life savings, how much is that? That's 30K. Okay. And you just blitzed right by my question. I'm serious. What emotion, what thoughts entered your mind when this guy said this to you? Next emotions, one, I feel like, if I appreciate the home first, I'd feel better about spending my life savings on it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I thought it was your,
Starting point is 00:39:03 I thought it was his parents' home. Yes, but then she said they're going to buy it. When are y'all going to buy it? Well, we're looking at doing that last year than his parents were feeling bad about the fact that it would cost me $30K to essentially buy the loan once, you know, everybody's paid. Do you all like the house? Why are y'all doing this deal? I don't understand. Why don't you else go buy a house? So where I live, $30K does not really get you anywhere to purchase a home. The average home in the neighborhood is probably...
Starting point is 00:39:37 Are they giving you the home? No. Okay. Essentially giving us equity on the home? No. No, no, no, no, no. First of all, you guys are not married, so that's your money, not his money. And in no situation, should you give your money to his parents to renovate a home that you may or may not have been, this is going to turn into an absolute nightmare.
Starting point is 00:40:00 What about the car? You've been saving up for a car that you need. Yes? yes like like how bad do you need this car not super bad i work remote um but is your current car failing is what i'm getting at uh no i have the lease and my lease ends in december and i'm not willing to purchase do you have okay this 30 000 is your money full stop period you need to use it for your stuff now the day that he puts a ring on your finger and you guys get married you join finances when are you getting married
Starting point is 00:40:35 it's your fiance I don't know I have a six months old at home so one day when I'd be to sleep at night one day when you can sleep at night and I'm assuming that's his baby correct he is yes
Starting point is 00:40:50 why doesn't he have any money it does now so well why does he need your money well he does now but it has a lot of credit card debt that he needs to take care
Starting point is 00:41:05 of. I was helping with that when I had a whole lot more money, but I stopped working free jobs when I had a baby, so now we make about the same. Okay. You called to ask us what we thought about this, correct? Yes. Okay. I know what you thought about it. You gave me the mixed emotions. Why don't you just tell us what you really felt? What did you feel when he hit you with that. I felt like this is a dumb idea. Great. You are correct.
Starting point is 00:41:39 Ding, ding. That's what Rachel and I think. Oddly enough. Meg wins. Let me pull the audience out here. We've got about 50 people out there. If you think this is a dumb idea, raise your hand. Everybody in the audience.
Starting point is 00:41:51 We got a lot of hands raised, Meg. There's your focus group. Okay, so number one, Meg, we do not combine finances. We do not share finances. We do not pay on each. other's debts and or homes or future in-law homes. We do nothing combining until we are married. You have no financial obligation to help him and you have no protection. If you guys were married and something happens, then we can get Utah State involved and we can figure that out with assets
Starting point is 00:42:22 and everything. But you have no protection, Meg. Okay. So number one, no combining finances. Number two, it's, I would go this weekend, Meg, if you love him and you think he's the one, you got a six-month-old together, you're living together, I think you just go get a marriage license. Y'all need to get married. You need to start this life. You're in, you're acting married. Just go do it. Do a wedding later, whatever the celebration is.
Starting point is 00:42:45 Like, you guys need to start actually living in the reality of which you live. And so if I were you, and if you love him, right, you want to marry him, right? I love him. I don't love how he handles money. Okay. Well, then there's a red flag. This is a great reason not to marry him. Yes.
Starting point is 00:43:02 Yes, because then his debt is my debt, and I've lived debt three in my life. Well, is he on board of trying to get out of debt? Because you said you were trying to help him pay off debt and you gave him some money to pay off debt. Is he working his way out of debt? It has some, what's the nice way to say it? Interesting ideas on how to get out of debt. He has a philosophy of my goal in life is, that in one year we don't have to have this conversation about money because I'll be making
Starting point is 00:43:32 so much more that we don't have to worry about money. Money magna. This is what I thought in high school. I thought that one day I would be able to dunk a basketball. Just kind of thought I would happen. Never happened, Rachel. And money magnifies the situation. You're not going to have to not talk about it because you make money.
Starting point is 00:43:48 Yeah. This guy, this is a tough situation. You need to define the relationship. That's what needs to happen here. number one, no, I'm not giving you money. This is crazy. I don't feel comfortable marrying you until we get on the same page with money. So therefore, putting money into a future thing, no, no, no. Definitely not. I love you. No. Did I mention that I love you? No. All right, that's first thing. And I'm not kidding. I actually don't want you to go down to the courthouse.
Starting point is 00:44:20 And Rachel doesn't either now. No, I don't. But I hate that you guys have a six-month-old. I mean, like, you know, my hope is that this. We don't want to further complicated. No, we don't. But I do. hope that you guys work to mend this for the sake of the six-month-old and for your for your futures together. I agree. Well, if I had him on the phone, I go, do you love this woman? And hopefully he'd say yes. And I go, why don't you throw out all your cockamamie ideas that don't require you to do hard work and work for a while to get successful? And why don't you ask your fiancé what she thinks about money and why she thinks about it. Because she has $30,000. Because she's doing it better than you, Sparky. Yeah, 100%. And so, you know, that's what needs to happen. He needs to man up. You know,
Starting point is 00:44:58 Yeah. And for the most part, he's okay. I mentioned I can just manage money. I'm great at managing money. I'm great at saving money. I can get us wherever we want. Well, then tell him if he wants to marry you that you're going to manage the money and he's going to be in the budget meeting, but he's going to sit there and he's going to learn. Right? Like if he's willing to let you, if he's willing to marry you and we now adopt your money principles, if this guy's really willing to do it, which by the way, he would need to show that to you. If you were my sister, I'd go, don't you even dare marry this clown until he shows you that he is willing to get on board with you and then live his life that way for a minimum of six months. So, Meg, I'm sorry. Yeah, I tried to have this conversation. Yeah. Well, maybe he needs to know that you're not going to stick around. You know, defying the relationship.
Starting point is 00:45:54 Rachel, what do you think? Don't give him money. No. That's my number one, Meg. You're not crazy or mean by not putting your $30,000 into his parents' home. You know, I was going to ask James if I should get ordained so I could marry couples on the spot for future situations like this. It would not have married Meg. Now I would have said no, Meg.
Starting point is 00:46:11 We would have not. No marriage. Our question of the day is brought to you by our friends at YREFI. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life does happen. but Y-R-R-E-F-I is not going to shame you. They're going to help you explore a real plan to get back on track. You can head to Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey to find out how they can help you. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey.
Starting point is 00:46:40 It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Renee in New York. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young? Isn't it better for them to work, live at home and save their money so they can buy a place to live when they move? why move out to pay a landlord for a place to live? How will they ever achieve the American dream of home ownership? If kids are working hard and saving, what's the advantage of moving out? There are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence than throwing money away at rent every month. Oh, boy. Well, are you sure your name's not Karen? Because that sounds a little
Starting point is 00:47:18 woke to me. I mean, this is why we have so many snowflakes because of this woman has raised snowflakes. That's my part of the answer. I think that's it. What do you think? Okay. So, all right. So, okay.
Starting point is 00:47:38 Okay. So, because it's not a math. At that point, it's not a math issue. Because there's something about, and she says there's other ways to have dignity and independence, maybe to a degree. But there's also something about being a full, full adult. They're cleaning their room. You know, when our maid service came in, they commented about our oldest son.
Starting point is 00:47:55 Jimmy about his toilet was spotless. Jimmy, he's doing great, mom. Way to go. I mean, this whole question is so, listen, this is pathetic. And questions, plural. Questions. She's very mad. All right, I'll break this.
Starting point is 00:48:11 Oh, well, she's getting me mad. Okay, here we go. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young? At any point on the show, has any one of us ever recommended that some kid move out in their teens? the answer to that is no pull the archives we're talking about people that are out of college
Starting point is 00:48:32 and are old enough to live on their own and they have a job and we say for a season and they don't have a job they need to move out and for a season it's okay we're not like hardcore about it but there is a point that that people that live with their parents
Starting point is 00:48:46 for an endless amount of time to quote unquote just save money you lose the life lessons you lose life you lose and the dating thing too can I always go back to that. Could you imagine? 26-year-old guy.
Starting point is 00:48:59 And you're like, okay, where should we go after dinner? You want to go see a movie? You got to go to my parents' house. There was a movie about this with Matthew McConaughey and Sarah Jessica Parker, one of my all-time favorite rom-coms, incidentally. Matthew McConaughey, what a chum. And the whole thing is that the parents didn't want him to leave. And let me tell you something about Renee.
Starting point is 00:49:19 Renee doesn't want her kids to leave. And so it's all in here. Let me go with this one. This is my favorite one here. Why move out only to pay a landlord for a place to live? Because that's what every other freaking American does until they can afford a home. And it's called personal responsibility. But no, there are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence.
Starting point is 00:49:42 I mean, this has got a little bit of like Ben Franklin to it. Like she's really pinning this away. And then throwing your money away on rent every month. And I'm going to let you, because you're so much nicer than me. we think that renting is not throwing money on it. I know, I want you to say more. You're buying time. You don't own it so you're not like responsible for every expense and home ownership is
Starting point is 00:50:06 expensive. So rent for a little bit. Yeah. There's no dignity or independence if you can afford to move out and you got a job and just come on. I'm so tired of all of this. For a short period of time, I'm okay with it. Right?
Starting point is 00:50:22 Like if you graduate college, you need six months at home to figure out a place to live and like I get that like that is fine it's not we're not that legalistic about it but this endless amount to just save money and I'm going to go live and my parents till I'm 26 27 and by the way Renee says it and she goes until they have enough for a down payment well okay let's run the numbers on that that's not a two-year play no just if you look at housing so that's why some of you who are hearing me and you're now offended by me one I don't care and two, I'm actually basing on real numbers. Based on this woman's question, you do not have a one year or a year and a half or two year scenario. This is going to be years in the making
Starting point is 00:51:06 with them living in the nest. And this is the real issue. A lot of parents don't want their kids to leave. Yeah. Because they don't now really go. Oh, I can't wait. You know why? Codependence? What? It's a form of codependence, but they do not like the life that they will have when the kids are gone. They're holding on for their own sake. They are worried. about what life is like with their spouse when the kiddos are gone they have they have I'm just telling you that's what it is and those little moms which I'm a mom of a little boy I get it you want Charles living with you when he's 24 well not for his sake but I do help him a lot more than my girls like that why is that I don't know he's just so sweet you I put y'all
Starting point is 00:51:46 your girls are darling but why do you why do you Prince Charles I don't know it's a mother son thing I don't know but I will I will go above and beyond for him more said than the girls. But. Bottom lies, we don't kick people out. It's not our decision. We're just hosting a show that you listen to. You do what you want. But we don't, we don't tell people to kick their kids out. And I think one of the top three for me, besides the, it's the, it's the romantic relationships. I'm not going to lie. That it's one of the, I think it's a very unattractive thing. What do you mean? If you were, if I was single in dating. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And the dude's living with his parents? Yeah. Yeah. And vice. I don't know. You might as well
Starting point is 00:52:22 have a giant sweatshirt that says loser on. Which, by the way, based on the last call, I'm going to circle back to this. Because there are people that are watching and listen. I'm going to be serious for a moment, okay? There are people that are watching and listen to us, and we are blown away that you let us into your ears and give you advice. But I want to say this just because I'm now, I'm that guy. I love it.
Starting point is 00:52:46 Go, Ken. I'm 51. If you are a woman and you are single right now and you are dating a dude who you are attracted to, I don't care what the reasons are, but you know somewhere in your gut that he doesn't have his act together. Would you please have the dignity to press pause and put it on the line for him and go, I'm concerned because if you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut and you marry a loser or you have a baby with a loser because you're not responsible enough to protect that romantic moment, you are going to pay big time financial and emotional consequences. So we just don't say it
Starting point is 00:53:29 enough. I just want to go, listen, ladies, listen to your heart. Get some guys into your gut and get some people in your life who'll go, he's a really attractive, charismatic loser. But it's the last word that's the operating word. Rachel, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not angry, I'm not really, but I mean, please, these romantic decisions lead to massive relationship and financial decisions. Yes, yes. Please. 100%.
Starting point is 00:54:00 Don't hop in a sack with a loser. This is a great life rule. It's all he wanted to say. Is it not a good rule to live by? Yeah. By the way, it goes for guys too. I'm probably very old school in that scenario. Guys, don't hop in a sack with a woman that's crazy.
Starting point is 00:54:17 Because then you procreate, create crazy. And then you're stuck with it. I mean, it's like this show's about winning with money. Here's one of the rules. Don't procreate with crazy. Don't live with somebody who's a loser. You would be a surprise at how wealthy you could become. But I do think you, what?
Starting point is 00:54:37 Am I right? Well, yes, because we get these calls a lot from the relational side. Yeah, and it's all back to those two rules. And they tell us scenarios and we're like, what are you doing with them? Or her? Like, she sounds terrible or he sounds terrible. And I think either, number one, you just don't have people in your life that are going to say it or there's not enough, you're so deep in it that there's no mirror.
Starting point is 00:55:01 You can't see out of it. You don't see a difference. You need someone else, which is why they're calling two strangers, right? Which we appreciate to be able to, yeah. You hear it in their voice. You go, why are you with them? And they're kind of like, hmm, and here's what happens. When you sell your dignity for companionship, you sell your gut, you sell your voice.
Starting point is 00:55:20 You sell your values, any of those scenarios. When you sell that for that emotional feelings that person provides, you are setting yourself up for relational and financial disaster. So somebody had to say it. I think this is Life Skills 101. What I just said there is not new, nor is it that deep. But boy, oh boy, is it right. Common sense.
Starting point is 00:55:42 Not so common anymore. Not anymore. Hey, if you are tired of living paycheck to paycheck, I'm feeling like you can't get ahead. We'd love for you to join one of our free, every dollar trainings, new trainings every week this month, and they're hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. They're going to show you out to stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth, and you get to ask questions. So this isn't just like a webinar where they're talking at you.
Starting point is 00:56:14 to talk with you, sign up for free at ramsysolutions.com slash webinar, ramsysolutions.com slash webinar. Mark is joining us now in Birmingham. Mark, how can we help? Hey, I appreciate you guys taking my call. How's it going? We're doing well, sir. How are you today?
Starting point is 00:56:33 Pretty good, pretty good. So just to get right into it, I'm preparing to get my big snowball rolling. and um i have a i have roughly like 10 to 11 000 a day it's not credit cards or vehicle payments um like just personal debt how much did you say how much between 10 and 11 000 okay and i have a pay a 9600 of it is is is is it um it's the irs i have a payment already oh okay okay and the rest is like personal debt okay um my wife has student student loans like 23 000 i pay pay all the bills. I take home like 4,300 a month. And I take care of everything. Her money is
Starting point is 00:57:17 her money to me. And so my question is, do I focus on just my debt and then, like, move on to the baby steps and, you know, start investing in the emergency fund and then, like, you know, trying to stay for home? Or do I include her debt with mine all at once? You get what I'm saying? Yep, I do know what you're saying. Um, my question to you is, why don't you guys combine finances and have a checking account where all of your money goes in and you guys decide how to best use the household money? Uh, just, I mean, just being honest, it's because of the IRS. Like, when we got married, um, I was a, I was a owner operator for, for, for, like, I was driving trucks. I still drive trucks, but at the time I was an owner operator. And I told her, I was being
Starting point is 00:58:06 straight up with her, like, look, uh, you know, I got this. the issue with the IRS. So she didn't want to file jointly because of that. She didn't want to, you know, kind of, I guess jammed herself up. But I do, like, we do have a joint account where I deposit all the money, like, and then, like, she can pay bills out of and stuff like that. Okay. Well, if you guys combine a checking account, that doesn't affect the IRS.
Starting point is 00:58:27 That's, is it more of a trust issue with her from you that you didn't do what you said you were going to do or you got behind on taxes and she doesn't trust you with her money? Right. It was, it was just me being irresponsible. I mean, it wasn't her money. Yeah. No, I know, I know. But that's what I'm saying, though, is if you guys combined finances into a checking
Starting point is 00:58:44 account and saw it as a household budget, the IRS isn't affected by that. That doesn't change your taxes. So I'm just curious if, yeah, if everything's in the same checking account, that doesn't change your taxes. So. Oh, so even if we file, like, even when we're doing it, well, how you file your taxes would be one thing. But you guys, where your income goes, your paychecks, where they go when you're paid, the
Starting point is 00:59:08 IRS doesn't care about that. So if you guys are in one account, you're a household account. Now, how you file your taxes, whether individual or married filing jointly, that's, you know, that's different. So what I would suggest you guys do, Mark, just from a, from a relational standpoint, what we have found is that couples who combine everything, what that shows is, number one, that we are a team. And this household that we are running together as a married couple, you get further with your financial goals faster and you actually end up having a better marriage because of it because you lean on each other you trust each other communications opened and you see yourselves as one so there's a financial benefit to it but there's also a relational emotional
Starting point is 00:59:54 benefit to say yeah we're we're married like when we said yes and i do and put rings on and created this covenant between us we're sharing our lives like this is everything you know we are all in this together. So that may take some conversations to kind of get her around to that idea, but that would be the ultimate goal for me for you guys, Mark, is to say, yes, we are one. And so if that was the case, you bring home 43 a month. What does she bring home? She has a small business. She makes and produce her own skincare products. I don't know how much she makes a month. I just know, like, a year is like 5, between 5 and 10,000. Like I said, I take care of everything
Starting point is 01:00:34 So I just kind of like stay out her How much does she make? She makes 10,000 a year? 10 to 25,000? No, no, no, between 5 and 10,000 A year? Yeah, for her, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's not a lot of money.
Starting point is 01:00:48 Yeah, why is she not working? Because we have, we have three years and another one on the way. Okay, so she's more of a stay-at-home. Right, right, right. Okay, well, then that means, I mean, I mean, honestly, Mark, at that point, it's like $800 a month. So it's not even that much that she's going to have to, quote, unquote, merge with you.
Starting point is 01:01:09 It's not, you know what I mean? Like, it's you guys together. It's not like she's got a job making $80,000. And she's like, this is mine. This is yours. And there's kind of a harder emotional. That's why I just kind of leave it. You know, I just take care of.
Starting point is 01:01:19 I just leave it. So you, okay. So that's kind of like her phone. Okay. Yep. Well, that $800 that she makes a month, eight, eight to $1,000 could be very beneficial in this, in these baby steps, right? So you guys could look at that to say people go and try to find an extra job to get $1,000 a month.
Starting point is 01:01:37 And as a stay-at-home mom, that's what she's doing, which is awesome. $9,600 right there. So what I would do is I would, the IRS debt needs to be cleaned up first. So the $9,600 from the IRS, I would clean that out. We usually say, mark smallest to largest debt, but the IRS gets a pass to the front because we put them out of your lives. So the $9,600, I would, yep, pay that off. And again, if you guys can work together, you could have this paid off in seven to eight months,
Starting point is 01:02:06 just even with what she's bringing in. But that gets knocked out. And then I would be, and then you have probably about 400 left. Is that what you said? Because it was 9,600 and you have 10,000? Right, right, just personal debt. Okay, so get that 400 cleaned up.
Starting point is 01:02:23 And then, yes, and then you guys together attack that 23,000 of her student loans. So I want your household debt-free. and then we will move on to a household emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. So, um, okay, so for you, Mark, how much, so you, you bring home 4,300. How much is rent or mortgage? How much are you guys paying in that a month? Yeah, I'm renting right now and it's 1320. 1320. Okay. Um, all right, that's good. Yep. So yeah, this is, um, and honestly, too, Mark, I mean, it, this idea of getting out of debt and getting this emergency fund in place,
Starting point is 01:03:00 if you've been listening to us any amount of time I mean it is it is scorched earth it is extra jobs it is like getting this done ASAP really really really really really fast
Starting point is 01:03:12 on that point what do you do for a living I drive trucks okay is that skill is there a way for you to pick up a decent amount of hours where it's actually
Starting point is 01:03:23 going to make a difference just with the truck driving skill I mean not at this job I do something on the side but it's not something I report. I didn't really include it in my, you know, my overall. Okay. What do you do on the side?
Starting point is 01:03:38 What are you do on the side? And how much? It's like waste management, something like, you know, like jump removal. Mm-hmm. Like stuff, I have a pickup truck. Yeah. If I'm hustling like I should, then I can make like $2,000 easy a month. Oh, that's great, Mark.
Starting point is 01:03:54 Mark, buddy, that's the play. Because you're, listen, your wife's busy, man. She got two and one on the way. and, you know, there's just not a whole lot of margin there, and that's something you all decided, love that. $2,000 a month could turn into $4,000 a month if you're hustling, then you figure out a way to scale yourself. I like that play.
Starting point is 01:04:14 A lot. You know? Yeah, for sure. Like, Mark, I'm telling you, that's a great opportunity. See, not, look. And you're a hard worker. I appreciate that about you, Mark. I mean, you're not scared of hard work.
Starting point is 01:04:29 Love it. mark get after it man and then scale yourself you know him like own his own thing one day that's what i'm getting at mark may be surprised where this could go you know yeah you're making 4300 driving trucks and like ken saying if you can make 4,000 doing doing this i mean i'd find some high school guys some college guys in the summer that want some good money hourly and you're just loading them up yeah pun intended that could be fun that's a fun dream sit down with your wife tonight mark we're going to give you every dollar oh and you guys create a house budget, both of your incomes go in and just start to dream.
Starting point is 01:05:04 Seriously, dream how fast can we get out of your debt? What would it look like for Mark to own his own business? I like it. All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. Susan, how can we help? Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show today. My boyfriend and I are going to be starting FPU soon, and we're both really excited. When we start this, my boyfriend's going to be able to knock out
Starting point is 01:05:30 the very little debt he has just right out of his checking account and probably be in about 75% into a six-month emergency fund. Wow. Great. Yeah, he's doing wonderful. Me, unfortunately, not that great. I got divorced about eight years ago, and I, just in a bad place, I relied heavily on debt and credit cards, and I've got about $90,000 in debt.
Starting point is 01:05:55 Okay. Fifty-seven of that student loans. I've got a vehicle loan for 17, and the rest is like a personal loan, and I got about $5,000 on a credit card I'm still working on. Okay. We've got some short-term and long-term goals together. Our short-term goal is we want me to be able to stay at home with a baby someday. And given my age, we are actually seeing a fertility doctor now for some help with conceiving.
Starting point is 01:06:22 And my boyfriend wants to help me pay off my debt and make sure we're in the place for me to stay at home when our prayers are answered. And I know we aren't married yet, but it's definitely happening soon. Sooner than later, he asked me my ring size. Like, it's going to happen. So I didn't know with our given situation, would this be okay? No. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:06:43 Can you explain? I tried to explain it to him last night, and I, and I know I can't articulate it good enough. Okay, so wait a second. This is his idea? Yes, he wants to help me. And he's been, I mean, he's been such a blessing to my daughter and I, like, I have a 12-year-old. Get it. So, let me ask you.
Starting point is 01:07:03 What did you say to him? I want to know what Susan tried to explain. So you knew we were going to say no, didn't you? Oh, oh, I definitely knew you guys to say no. I'm very glad I'm actually talking to you all in that days. Tell us why. We are so nice. I'm kidding.
Starting point is 01:07:18 Susan. No. But I love his advice. I love it all. I know. So, Rachel, she's gone. Okay. So what was your explanation? Give us the summary of how you explained why the answer is no.
Starting point is 01:07:33 The data shows that, you know, when you're married, the data just shows that. I can't articulate it very well. And just biblically. But then also on my side, I did all the right things that first marriage, and it still didn't work. And I'm, like, I'm happy, I'm safe, I'm secure. Like, I don't want to push it too much. I mean, I'm mentioning it every once in a while. Like, hey, we've been together three and a half years. Well, yeah, and y'all are seeing a fertility specialist, Susan. I'm like, you guys are about to start a family.
Starting point is 01:08:07 So, like. We got the cart literally before the horse. You're not, like, out of the blue. I feel like marriage is a good next step. I would have married him last year with a bread tie. There you go. Okay. So I, you know.
Starting point is 01:08:19 Yeah. So. like that. So there's a couple of big events happening in your lives and you called us. So we'll give you our thoughts. Ken, I'll give you mine. I already said no. And if you disagree with what I'm about to say, my order of events. I like this. I don't mind you seeing a fertility specialist and be talking through, but I would not be going forward with anything big decision wise until you're married. And so because we've talked to already one person on the show that has a six month old with a fiance who she's about to break up with, I think, because Ken was like, he's a loser. He's
Starting point is 01:08:52 terrible. He's not great. And I know your fiance, your boyfriend is different. But I'm just saying, life happens. Things happen. We get calls on this show all the time. And it's just, it's relationships that end up. Why are you okay? I'm sorry. It's quick. I thought I was going to agree with you. I'm not sure I'm on board with her going through the fertility doctor conversation without a ring on her finger. I'm okay with it. I'm dying. I know. No, so he needs to step up. Tell him that. I know.
Starting point is 01:09:20 Well, I'm okay with, I'm okay with them, like, I'm not, I'm okay with them interviewing doctors and, like, asking the question because they're about to be engaged. I wouldn't go, I wouldn't go forward. If she wants to freeze her eggs, she can. But I wouldn't actually do anything fertility-wise until they're married. My concern is, if you go do that, it's a slippery slope. It could be. So, y'all need to get married, Susan.
Starting point is 01:09:40 So married, baby, and then, well, married, combined finances, baby. And the baby finance thing can happen right away, okay? So what I would do, if I were you guys, is to say, and hopefully out loud y'all are saying, yes, we're going to get married, right? Like, that's a conversation that's being said. And do you know, I know he asks for a ring, but did you guys say, like, oh, yeah, by the end of the year we'll be married? Like, do you all have a timeline?
Starting point is 01:10:08 No, not really. I mean, we need a timeline. We talked the other night, and we don't need anything big. It's great. So we need a timeline. I could marry you guys on the show. This is why I should get ordained. Ken really wants to marry someone.
Starting point is 01:10:19 I kind of do. Okay, so y'all need to make it. We're already in Nashville now. So number one, I would do timeline of wedding. End of the year. I don't know. It's August. By December, we're getting married, okay?
Starting point is 01:10:30 Yeah. And then in December, financially, where's everyone at? In December, he has paid off his debt. In December, he's going to have, I'm making this up, Susan, $30,000 of debt. Or I'm sorry, of cash. $40,000 in his emergency, but I don't know. He's going to have this.
Starting point is 01:10:45 Susan's going to have this. who have worked, and Susan is going to pay off her credit card debt by December. Yeah, $5K in credit card debt. Susan's going to be kind of working through the next debt. Like, you know, where are you going to be, Susan, in December? And then when you guys get married, now how much of the money that he has saved? Because he's going to go right back to Baby Step 2, once you guys say I do. And you guys are going to work to pay off the rest of your debt.
Starting point is 01:11:09 But he will use his savings to do that after you're married. How much does he have? Okay. He's probably got 20, 25,000 saved up now. Okay, so by December. What's your car worth? I know you owe 17. Well, I don't know.
Starting point is 01:11:25 It's probably worth about as much as I owe now. Okay. And what do you guys make a year combined? He actually just had to take a pay cut with a promotion, which is crappy, but it's okay. That's not a promotion. Do what? Yeah. 95.
Starting point is 01:11:43 He makes that 95. Okay, what do you make? And then I'm going to be making probably around 45 if I get to keep the overtime I've been putting in. If not, maybe 40. What do you do? I'm actually working at just like a manufacturing plant making brackets right now. It pays better than anything. I went to school, got a bachelor's degree, but I have no idea what to do with it.
Starting point is 01:12:04 What did you get a bachelor's degree? Yeah, well, I got you. I'm going to give you. I wanted to be a teacher. And then last minute, I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And so I asked my advisor, what can I do with the credits I have to still graduate? And so I have inter-disciplinary studies. The biggest crock or crap in the history of education.
Starting point is 01:12:26 Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Okay. I should have just never went to college. Hey, can I give you a pre-wedding gift? I'm going to give you my book, find the work you're wired to do. It has the get-clear assessment. And it only takes about 18 and 20 minutes.
Starting point is 01:12:37 Please take it. I promise you. I promise you it will give you some clarity going forward. And if we got to get you back on the show another time to talk about your results, that's fine. But you need to be figuring out what can I do? And I think there's a lot more that you could do than you realize. I love, by the way, I want to applaud you. I love that you're in a manufacturing plant and you're putting brackets together.
Starting point is 01:13:01 I've never done this before, but I'm killing it. I actually like it. You know what? And that's made my day, actually. There's no shame in that. No, and she wants to stay home eventually with a baby. so I hope you guys get married in December. I hope you get pregnant and I hope by a year from now.
Starting point is 01:13:16 Make some more brackets and then make some babies. There we go. And I want y'all debt-free and you can do it all. And that's what I hope for you, Susan. But again, the order is really important and where people screw up, not just from like a biblical sense, right? I mean, that's totally fair. But from the data, like what you're saying, when people mess up this order, it gets really difficult from a financial standpoint to start to win. because things happen in life and we want to just safeguard and be wise.
Starting point is 01:13:44 Susan, this is just being wise. I think some of his, I think some of his hesitation is, like, he just recently kind of got his life together. He's always had amazing work ethic, made six figures, if not close to. But he struggled with addiction. And so, I mean, up until about two and a half years ago, he was spending anywhere from 800 to $1,000 a week on his addiction. And so he's been two and a half years clean.
Starting point is 01:14:07 He's like, I just want to get better. Yeah. Which is admirable. Are you all doing premarital counseling? I mean, we're going to. We went to some counseling when he was struggling, and I told him, hey, get clean or I'm gone. Yeah. And he did.
Starting point is 01:14:24 And it's great. Yeah. So you guys can take your time, but don't jump the baby before the wedding either, okay? Uh-huh. So be wise. Thank you so much. Be wise. Yeah, appreciate you.
Starting point is 01:14:35 Wow. This is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, the lovely, the talented. Rachel Cruz joins me, AAA 825-5-2-25. We're here for you. Let's get going. We've got Gary, I hope I'm saying that right, in California. Gary, how can we help?
Starting point is 01:15:01 Yes, you did say that right. Well, you know, I'm hooked on phonics. A lot of people don't know this, but a lot of hard work there, Rachel. How can we help today? Um, so I think we're going to continue the same with marriage, um, but it's not my, it's not your. It's not a result of my marriage. No.
Starting point is 01:15:18 It's good. My mom. So, yeah, yeah. So, um, I'm going to try to make it very clear because it's kind of a messy situation, but my mom remarried when I was 10 and they broke up within, um, the same year. And they've kept this on and off relationship of like, I help you, you help me, but totally no benefits. and that just bled in over the last 30 years.
Starting point is 01:15:42 Can you tell us real quick? What does that mean? They help each other no benefit. Like financially? Financially. Like my mom's co-signed for cars, filled out forms for him. He'll give her rights, places. So everything but.
Starting point is 01:16:02 Oh, everything but. And they fight cats and dogs. I see. I got you. Okay. Friends, no benefit. That's what you're saying. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:16:10 Ah. Well, and then he went and adopted a son when I was 20 years old, so that was about 20 years ago, and she became the babysitter. And just this is just a absolutely zero boundaries weird situation. We got it. Yes. Okay. So I decided, my mom did too, but for her own reasons,
Starting point is 01:16:33 but I decided about a year and a half ago to no longer be active in their lives. because there's no boundaries. And, you know, my husband and I worked through the baby steps years ago when we've worked hard to get to where we're at. We're not wealthy, but we're very comfortable. Good. And I don't know. I mean, they've never asked me for money,
Starting point is 01:16:54 but they, you know, just gave you a snapshot of their financial picture. They're on my stepdad's on disability, and they live in housing. And they don't want to help themselves. Not together, correct? Are they living together? Yeah, yeah, because it's his son, but... So they live together? Not my mom, not my mom.
Starting point is 01:17:14 Oh, okay, the stepdad in the son. Okay, I'm sorry. Oh, okay, all right, sorry. I was in the same confusion. Okay, all right. Yeah, sorry. You're good, you're good. So...
Starting point is 01:17:23 Yeah, but she's recently just not deciding to help him with stuff and... Yep, so she's put up a boundary, and so what's the question for you? So his stepson, who considers me, his big sister, which I feel really bad about because I don't feel the same, reaches out every so often, wants that relationship begs us to call and speak with him. And for me, I'm just, their financial storm, their emotional storm keeps bleeding over into our lives. And I just, I can't carry it anymore. And I don't know, as a Christian, like, that's really hard for me to accept that it's okay,
Starting point is 01:18:03 but it feels mean. Okay. I love your heart. Let me ask this. How is it, how is the, your stepdad and the steps and his son, how is their financial situation bleeding over into your life, you and your husband? How is that specifically happening? So one big, and what made me really make the decision just to at least take a break at the very least, I, I helped them find housing, a place that accepts housing. And I got it through a friend's mom. They broke the rules and they got evicted. And this is in the middle of tax season. I'm a preparer. He's demanding that I go find him and you. And I said, that's not my problem. You broke the rules. Yeah. I don't even have time even if I wanted to right now. Got it. Right. I'm in the busiest season of my entire career. Yeah. Now, okay. I just wanted to know, yeah, I, I, um, and this is the stepdad that did this. And not technically even your stepdad, right? I mean, like there's not even like a legal
Starting point is 01:19:05 I mean, they haven't even been together for 20, 30 years. And when they were, it wasn't even, it was within a year. Yeah. It sounds like your mom's unhealthy relationship with him has now become your unhealthy relationship with this man. You know what I mean? It's not even like it's. But now the stepdad, or whatever this dude, whatever we're going to call him, he is honored the boundary, but it sounds like his son is the one that's just calling you just relationally. How old is he, the son?
Starting point is 01:19:31 He's now 19. Does he ask for money? No, no. Is he manipulative in the middle? Yeah, but is he manipulative in any way? I think emotionally because he's like, can you call and talk to them? He really want to talk to you. He's sad.
Starting point is 01:19:49 Yeah, he's throwing to be party over at the triangle. I knew there was a reason. And he probably isn't meaning to. He didn't know. He's a 19-year-old kid. He's stuck with his dad, right? I'm like, he doesn't know any better. Exactly.
Starting point is 01:20:00 Well, Rachel's probably better at this, so I'll get out of her way. Well, I just, here's the thing. I think it's okay for you to tell the young man why you want to put a boundary up. And I think you just, I don't think you smooth talk it. I think you just go, hey, you're stuck in the middle. And I'm sorry. This is not your fault. But, and I don't want to say anything that makes your, your dad look bad for my reasons.
Starting point is 01:20:28 It has nothing to do with you. I need a boundary of separation in talking. to you about the family stuff. Because if he were to just call you and probably say, hey, how's everybody doing? And it was just relational. I have a hunch that you might be okay with that. Correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you might. No, I don't think she really care. I mean, I don't think she cares. Okay, great. And that doesn't make you a bad person. I just think it's this random guy that your mom's attached. She adopts this guy, this kid. And now, Jerry's like, What is happening?
Starting point is 01:21:05 This is not my life. I can't have a relationship with you. Just say, I can't have a relationship with you. And I'm really sorry for where I'm at my life. You don't have to explain it, by the way. Is he not going to like it? That's why I was mining to see. Is it that you just don't like when he talks about the dad stuff?
Starting point is 01:21:21 Right. That's right. But if it's just, I don't need this relationship, you tell him. There's a great book. I don't know if we have it. Do we have boundaries by Henry Cloud on site? We do not. You need to get the book boundaries.
Starting point is 01:21:34 by our good friend, Dr. Henry Cloud. I'll tell you what, while you're at it, by necessary endings. Read both of those books together, and he will literally, in that book, coach you through it. Jared, do you and your husband have kids? Yeah, we have a 10-year-old or a 4-year-old. Okay. Man. What do you think?
Starting point is 01:21:53 Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's too harsh. No, I don't think it's too harsh. I mean, I think there has to be a conversation. I think it would be cruel to just ghost him, right? I mean, I think you do have to tell him and just tell him the situation, Jerry, of like, hey, listen, I, and just, you know, and it's going to be awkward. It's going to be hard. Write it out if you have to to just kind of stick to a script because you feel bad for the kid, right? And you may, Jerry, and I probably wouldn't make this promise, but in your heart, you know, you may come around in two to three years and who knows what his story unfolds.
Starting point is 01:22:26 And you guys may end up having a relationship and you guys may be able to help them and show him what a, what a healthy life looks like, you know, between two married people and kids. I mean, I don't know, but that's not your responsibility. So hear me say that. You don't have responsibility in this. This is strings from your moms. Yes, from your mom's unhealthy relationships that have woven into your life. And to cut those is totally fair.
Starting point is 01:22:54 But I think, too, having the heart and the spirit to say, you know, God, if there is a place in the future and if I'm supposed to be, in his life, continue to open doors, soften my heart. And you may have a change of heart later in life. But right now, you've got two kids. You're both working full-time. And, yeah, I think that that's fair. It's going to be an awkward, hard conversation. I would say it.
Starting point is 01:23:15 You're a good person. Do what's right for you. Okay, folks, big news. Just, boy, I guess it was Tuesday earlier this week. We launched the Ramsey Show Live. we're going out on the road, taking the show to Chicago and Orlando. And I've got right here, fresh off the presses, this is real paper. It's my favorite thing to do.
Starting point is 01:23:43 It's my favorite sound of all the time. Team hates it. The listeners hate it, but Ken does it. The listeners don't. Yeah, they do. They comment, Ken. Do they really? I think someone said they comment about the noise.
Starting point is 01:23:56 Is this true? I'm not going to do it. I'm sorry. Rush Limbaugh made it famous. I don't care. I like it. But Orlando and Chicago both sold out. Oh, they're done.
Starting point is 01:24:06 We're going two cities, and they are sold out. So if you wanted to see us in Chicago on the 30th of September, sold out, Orlando sold out. So here's what we want to know. And when we posted George and you and I are in Chicago together, George John Jade in Orlando, and when we posted our social media thing, it was fun. People were jumping in the comments telling us what city they wanted to. to come to. So here it is. Where do you want us to come to next? Where do you want? You got to tell us.
Starting point is 01:24:37 Give us some feedback. New York City. You want us to come to the Big Apple? We'll go. We'll like it. Start spreading the news. I'm leaving today. A little. No bugs in San Diego. I like San Diego. We'll go San Diego. Dallas. We'll go Phoenix. Oh, I love Phoenix. We can go Phoenix. Listen, get a good football team. Maybe I go to Dallas. All right. Sorry, that was, that was unnecessary. Vegas? We can see the Backstreet, boys. Backstreet's back all right. They launched more dates in February.
Starting point is 01:25:06 Of all the shows to see in Vegas, that's not one I would choose. It will change your life. I remember that era. It was a good era. It was a good era. But I don't know that I'd want to see that one. But I don't know. I'll play you some videos at the break.
Starting point is 01:25:21 Okay. Yeah, Rachel just returned. I'll bring you in. By the way, girls trip. So go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash events and click on the link or click on the link, the show notes. and we want you to tell us this is your chance to vote America do you want us to come to your city
Starting point is 01:25:38 and who wouldn't want me and Rachel and George to come do what we do it's just going to be so much fun I can't wait by the way fun story we posted that we were coming to Chicago and I put on there bring the deep dish in the video and can I tell you Malnades is bringing deep dish pizza
Starting point is 01:25:59 to the Chicago show They reached out. So this could turn into a thing where we go to a city and I basically beg for free food. Because I'm not above it. I like free food. Ken likes free stuff. I do like the free stuff. I can be bought.
Starting point is 01:26:16 If anybody's wondering, I can. So there you go. It's going to be a lot of fun. What cities, is there a city you would like to go to? If Rachel, what would be your top three? Vegas. I'll go back to Vegas. Vegas is one.
Starting point is 01:26:27 Give me two more. Give me Vegas. I'll go New York, New York City I like that And let's go Kansas City I get a little tailor spotting Really?
Starting point is 01:26:39 I don't know With Travis I don't know Nobody wants to go to Kansas City Kansas City's a great city It's a great city It's a great city I just wanted to create some fake controversy
Starting point is 01:26:49 I love Kansas City Barbecues amazing Love Kansas City Love to go there Everybody don't get offended I was just kidding Oh Packers Oh they want us to go
Starting point is 01:26:56 Green Bay Now that one I might have to actually say no to who is green bay there's like one thing to do in green bay i know i'm giving him a hard time absolutely i'm giving him a hard time absolutely offensive to people sitting right there i kid i kid but it's not a top five right i'm going to go it be my fourth i'm going to go uh new york i'm going to go miami ah great and um let's go northeast i love boston that's my three just to mix it up we're already in new york we're kind of already northeast dude now you're getting in hot water you don't tell bostonians that new york and boston are two they're just very different cities
Starting point is 01:27:37 why know they're different cities but you the region is the same what's easier to get there we do new york one night going up to boston they have some chowda okay what oh i'm telling us to go to callers come on you're talking too long i'm really not it's the end of the week it's fine america loves it andrew is up in jacksonville Andrew how can we help Um, my father is, uh, in bad health and he has a vehicle loan. Um, he, he is not driven in a few months and he is now confirmed that he's probably never going to drive again. Hmm. I'm sorry, Andrew. Thank you. Um, he owes 168 on it. Uh, I've taken it to a few lots. CarMax offered like nine, nine thousand. Um, my mother, who is in good health is a code. borrower on it, but she has her own vehicle that's working fine. And so in situations like this, what do you do with this vehicle? Well, I wonder what, have you Kelly Blue booked it? Because your
Starting point is 01:28:40 car max and all those other places and mostly dealers, they'll try to buy it at wholesale. Yeah. Have you Kelly Blue booked it? I have not. Okay. I would do that next. You're probably still going to be underwater for it. He probably will. Does he have any other assets? What kind of money do your parents have um they're well off i would say i mean i don't really know their financial situation but okay so i would retired um he has a really good life insurance policy um the medical team told us you know he has three to six months oh my gosh andrew i'm sorry i guess in this case i would just choose the least amount of effort like at this point you just don't want him, your mom burning any calories of effort on something like that.
Starting point is 01:29:32 You know, with three to six months to go. For sure. If they've got cash. Yeah. So I would just, I mean, if they have $5,000, $6,000, I would just pay the difference and get rid of the car and just be done. Gotcha. Be done with it. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:29:43 Okay. Because after he passes, I mean, that debt will be still owed, right? Like, it's going to have to true up with his estate and everything. So you'll have to deal with it one way or the other. So if they do have the cash, Um, but I would go private sale. And again, Andrew, I would probably, to Ken's point, put that maybe on you or one of your siblings to help sell. Yeah. Sure. Private party. Yeah. Um, and then yeah, just take some of their cash and just do the difference.
Starting point is 01:30:14 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Because again, I, I, this is all, like, this is a new up, so. But he has, he has life insurance in place. How old is he? 76 okay and your mom are they do you as their son and family do you guys know you said you don't really know their financial situation have you guys had any conversations just i just know with working with families after someone passes and dealing with the estate and dealing with passwords and i mean it's just there's a lot of information that happens and i just want to make sure you guys are as well informed just so that the grieving process um right goes to as simple as possible without muddying with money and financial issues. Right. Thank you for that. So our next step is we have scheduled some time with an attorney next week. I do know that there is a trust, but we can't find dad's will. So we're kind of going to that process. But I know that his life insurance policy will pretty much take care of my mother and everything for the remainder of her life.
Starting point is 01:31:22 but, you know, I mean, like this, like, again, this vehicle thing is kind of small, small things, but it's a detail, and I just didn't know what to do with it. Yep, yep. So, yeah, that's what I would do. And if you guys can't find the will, if there has to be another one put in place, I would, because just going through probate and everything, it just makes that, that whole situation smoother as much documentation as you guys can have. But I hate that this even has to be a conversation for you all. I'm so sorry. I understand, but you know what? I hope this conversation that we're having right now helps somebody else is listening.
Starting point is 01:31:57 Yep. Amen. I appreciate that. Andrew, you're a strong young man. So sorry. I think at this stage it's getting all the ducks lined up like we've been talking about. And then you and family handle as much as that as you can so that quality of life is as good as it can be. And let's celebrate. I hate that you're going through this. I really do. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for coming. Because he's a beast. That's a gift.
Starting point is 01:32:25 That's good to know. That's good to know. Wow. Thank you for calling and sharing that. All right. Let's go to the debt-free stage in the lobby, and we've got Michael and Stacey joining us. Hi, guys. How are you?
Starting point is 01:32:44 Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How are you? Where are you guys from? Maryland. We're from Calvert County, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. Okay. Very nice.
Starting point is 01:32:52 Right there in. inside the Beltway. That's right. Okay, very nice. Okay, well, tell us you're here to do debt-free scream, so give us the stats. How much did you pay off? We paid off $651,000. Oh, my gosh.
Starting point is 01:33:05 Whoa. In about seven years. Wow. Okay. All right. And what was the range of income? We started around $200,000, and then what was it? We went up to $3.46.
Starting point is 01:33:19 And then when we paid off the house, back down back down to 223 oh my gosh so the house was part of it we had a feeling you gave away the well I know
Starting point is 01:33:30 no I know I was getting there if you said you had $600,000 of credit card debt I would have I've heard that on the show before you know it's true I'm kidding
Starting point is 01:33:39 I'm kidding um okay but the house you guys unbelievable is that all the house or was there any consumer debt in that number so we had a paid for a rental or no I'm sorry
Starting point is 01:33:49 we didn't have a paid for rent we had a rental for renter we had a rental for $220,000. We had student loans for $20,000. Okay. Credit card $11,000. Second mortgage for $60,000. The home was $340,000. Okay. Yeah, but you got, but half of it was, yeah, everything else. Look at you. How incredible. And seven years. Dave normally says, I'm looking at weird people, but I don't think you're weird. I actually think you guys look very, very well adjusted. Oh, he's weird. That's funny. Stacey's like, I'm the nerd. Michael's a little weird. I was the nerd. Yeah. Well, you look fantastic. So what do you guys do for a living? Because this income, this is interesting, 200 to 346, back down to 223. What do you guys do?
Starting point is 01:34:28 Yeah, so I'm a retired cop of 27 years. Okay. I got an encore job, so I had the pension coming in, plus my encore job. And Stacey was... I was a VP of Communications and Marketing for an association. Nice. So what sort of happened was, you know, we had three incomes. So we had a pension coming in.
Starting point is 01:34:48 We had my encore job, right currently I still have it. I'm a fraud investigator with the federal government. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. And then, you know, her job. So we had three jobs, three incomes coming in. But once we paid off the house, she got to quit her toxic job. Yay, Stacey.
Starting point is 01:35:09 Oh, man. How long ago was that? I left, my last day was May 6th. Okay, so this is fresh. Yeah. That's why you look like you're levitating. Very. I'm still not, it feels odd, like I still haven't.
Starting point is 01:35:22 Yeah, you're debt-free and toxic company-free. That's a double-wammy. That's a double-win. Yeah. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with myself. So I just bought your book because I'm like, well, now I'm going to see what else I'm wired for. I'll read. I'll read.
Starting point is 01:35:35 I can tell you. What happened seven years ago that caused you guys to think, we want to pay all of us off plus the house, which is crazy. I literally was laying in bed one night and, like, we make all this money. where is it all going, you know, and we're in debt, what's going to happen to us in retirement? And I literally, it was having like heart palpitations. And I got on the internet, like how to get out of debt and guess whose face shows up as your dad? Oh, Papa Dave. That's right.
Starting point is 01:36:04 Papa Dave showed up from the Google. He's winning the algorithm. So he was yelling at somebody about, you know, having a car. You know, I like the old Dave when he's yelling at people. But anyways, he's nice now. You should be sitting next to me when he does it. a lot of fun you started watching like YouTube clips is that what
Starting point is 01:36:21 or just got hooked on YouTube okay um and then uh so I had a long commute to work I worked in Baltimore from you know Calvert County to Baltimore was like an hour and 15 minutes and I did that for you know quite a long time by the way that's literally the highway to hell can we agree that that area is just
Starting point is 01:36:38 I mean it's not you know it's not my favorite area right I know you're being very sad well that's a whole other story but that commute Yeah, you have a different perspective on that statement. Listen, I could tell you stories, but I'm going to go past the nine minutes. Keep going. Yeah, but I mean, during that drive, I was introduced to the podcast.
Starting point is 01:36:58 I listened to the podcast, and Dave was like on my podcast every day for to work and from work. Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. And that got you fired up. And that was seven years ago. So, yeah, we're talking like 2018-ish. Do you come home and tell Stacey about this guy who's yelling at people? and Stacey, what was your reaction to this?
Starting point is 01:37:21 He kind of got into it before I did. He kind of had to convince me, because I was like, oh, who is this? And what is this guy? What? But DeMori started listening to it. I was like, oh, God, this makes sense, right? Like, this really makes sense. And so I kind of got on board.
Starting point is 01:37:38 So he was the instigator. I was a little bit hesitant at first, but then I was like, well, yeah, this makes total sense. And once you started to see the progress, right? Yeah. And the good things happening, it's like, oh, man, we could do this. It's actually, yeah, it's working. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:37:53 It's working. Yeah. So what do you tell people from your journey is the key to getting out of debt? You know, people come up and say, you know, the budget, yes, the budget is important. And yes, you know, lifestyle changes and sacrifice is important. But one key thing I think is like people say, oh, obsession, you're obsessed with this. It's a obsession is not a bad thing. As long as you don't put it before God and your things.
Starting point is 01:38:16 family. You can get obsessed and focused on something to get it done. Like, baby steps one, two, and three was like, you know, my hair was on fire. Oh, that's what happened. Hold on. That might be a bad analogy. Me and Dave have a lot of comment in there. But steps one, two, and three, like super focused, super conscious, concentrated on, but steps four, five, and six, it's more like a, like a long distance run. Yeah. Yeah. And finally it's over. You know, this marathon's over. Okay. So how many years was paying off the house because you guys paid off I mean close to what 200 300 of consumer and then you went into the house so how long how long was that what was the journey honestly we got we got into we got rid of consumer debt fairly quickly like 18 months or something like that you know yeah yeah
Starting point is 01:38:59 and then um the rest of it was all house okay so about the last five years or so was just throwing and what and how did you guys do it because people ask this a lot yeah because people do it different ways Did you guys do a specific, you know, extra mortgage payments, like a goal per year or per month? Like, what did that look like? So, essentially, any extra money, like Dave says, you have extra money coming in and throw it at the house, throw it at the house. So any overtime money and also, remember, I got another job with the pension coming in. We didn't even touch the pension. We just, whatever check came in at the beginning of the month, you just went straight to the house.
Starting point is 01:39:33 Straight to the house. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And we took our foot off the gas. I mean, baby steps four, five, and six, we took our foot off the gas, went to, like, vacation and stuff like that.
Starting point is 01:39:44 Yep, which you should do. Treated ourselves a little bit. Yeah, which is great, yes. Okay, and daughter over here, I see, yes. She's been part of it. How old is she? She is 14. 14, yes.
Starting point is 01:39:54 Come on up. You're beautiful. I know. Beautiful, taller than me. Who is this? Quinn. Quinn, okay. How old is Quinn?
Starting point is 01:40:02 Quinn's 14 years old. Oh, my. Okay, she doesn't have a mic, so it's going to be hard, but I'll have your parents. What was the problem? process. Having a teenager in the house, how did all that work? Was all that, how did the family dynamic work? She was really kind of on board. I mean, she's still a teen. She still love shopping and everything. But we all kind of gave up a little bit and sacrificed a little. And she definitely did her fair share of sacrificing clothing. She understood the budget. Yes. Nails. And you all talked
Starting point is 01:40:34 about it. It was open. And as a family, this was the goal. And as a, a family were doing this. And it was easier to talk about like giving her the perspective of this is why it's going to be worth it in the future. We are baby step millionaires, multi-millionaires now. Congratulations on that. Well, you've set a great legacy and a great example for Quinn and hopefully she'll find a debt-free guy. Oh, she already knows, yeah. I'm with you, dad. I feel you, man. I got it. All right. Well, that is so cool. Well, you guys ready? Is she like the cool teenager? I've got a 16-year-old. Are you going to really scream here or is this going to be cool, Quinn? They're asking if you're going to scream or you'd be too cool to scream. Oh, I'm going to scream.
Starting point is 01:41:15 Yes, Quinn. I love it. Okay. We love a dedicated team. Let's do it. So we've got Michael, Stacy, and Quinn in the Annapolis Beltway area of Maryland paid off $651,000 over seven years, making from 200 up to 346, back down to 223, and they are free. Let's hear your. You're debt-free screen? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! All right.
Starting point is 01:41:46 Well, done. Very nice. She joined in. So great. How fun. Oh, my gosh. That's a lot of money. A lot of money.
Starting point is 01:41:55 And that's a long time. Long time. That's some perseverance right there. Yes. And the obsession, it's what you got to do. You got to stay focused. So great. Oh, and it's what they did.
Starting point is 01:42:05 Incredible family. Absolutely incredible. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17, verse 17. A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity. And our quote of the day, I think was hijacked by Rachel Cruz, a well-known, Swifty. This is from her boyfriend, Travis Kelsey. Oh, from Trav. One of the greatest tidings of all time.
Starting point is 01:42:34 Got to give him some love. He's not just her boyfriend. if you don't care about the guy next to you, he says. One, you're a terrible teammate, teammate, actually. Two, you're never going to win. There we go. Travis, way to go. Pretty life-changing quote.
Starting point is 01:42:51 Thanks, Travis. Maybe Travis should stick to football and not quotes. I don't know. But it was good. There's a nugget of truth there. Melanie from Connecticut has joined us. Melody, how can we help? Hi, how are you?
Starting point is 01:43:09 We're doing well. What's going on with you today? Good. So I have a concern. I have a situation I've been dealing with for a few years now. And I'm at a point where I don't know. I don't think I'm okay with it continuing, and I think it will continue. And the basics of it is, you know, how...
Starting point is 01:43:35 Can I get my husband to get our older son to pay for his own bill? How old is your son? He just turned 21. I've been asking my husband to, you know, get him to pay for his own bills. Nothing else. His own bills since he was 18. He's been fully employed since he was 16, you know, doesn't really manage his money very well, gets into unnecessary debt, you know, has been.
Starting point is 01:44:05 having trouble keeping a job, will not do, you know, my husband and I both have a full time and then do part-in gigs, and he just cannot handle that. He's not a student. And so because the bills are not under his name, when he doesn't have a job or he's underemployed, it doesn't face them because they're under our names. What bills does he have? car insurance and cell phone. Does he live with you all? He does. Okay.
Starting point is 01:44:40 And he's been full-time, so he starts at 16. I feel like it's relevant. So give me a little latitude here. Why is he full-time work at 16 and not in high school? No, no, no, no. He had his part-time job when he was 16. He graduated and had a full-time thing. Gotcha.
Starting point is 01:44:59 Because that sounds responsible. I mean, you know what I mean? Like the trajectory sounds good. What kind of work has he been doing? He started with, you know, like coffee shops and mechanic work. That part is okay. The issue I find is that because the bills are now under his name, the actual papers that are coming under his name,
Starting point is 01:45:19 he doesn't have the willingness or need to pay them. And my husband, you know, ask him to pay it. I remind him, we fight about it. Nothing happens. All right. So let me ask you this. if they're in his name, if he did not pay a cell phone bill, then they would turn the cell service off, yes? Correct.
Starting point is 01:45:39 So why don't we just let that happen? Because it's one of those family plans, and so it affects me. Right, but what can we not get him on his own, like he doesn't, he's not on the family plan, he's on his own plan, he's 21. First of all, he shouldn't be living at home anymore, and I know what's going on here. This is a marriage issue because your husband is just not, willing to make this kid what's your husband's reasons what does he say you know what i i have a lot of compassion for my husband um we took a trip to his home country a few years back and i know where he he comes from you know he comes from a lot of need and poverty and um you know part of i think it has
Starting point is 01:46:25 made him the man he is he's a lovely man sure worker he just wants to take care of his family because he's able to now and so there's yeah so yeah that makes sense so I think realizing yeah and I will say Melanie I'll give you like a little bit of just like breathing room and he's 21 if he was 30 you know what I mean like like from an age perspective he's young he's 21 I agree he doesn't have his feet up under him from a from a job standpoint he didn't go to school is that right no degree which is fine I just clarifying so yeah so we need a fine so so so so so As parents, and I don't have a 21-year-old, so I will say that. As parents, I would think stepping in and helping him find himself learning, what am I good at? A lot of Kins material
Starting point is 01:47:15 is so good at this. But being an assistant to help him long-term figure out a career path that's going to help him instead of him jumping from coffee shop to coffee shop, let's actually sit down and create a game plan together. So he has some stability and direction. And then when that happens that's good for him from a dignity standpoint and then we're going to fly and we're going to have to learn how to be an adult right but um i don't know i is he racking up debt with credit cards or anything like that nothing crazy the biggest thing that he has is his car payment which is pretty high so a little bit of backstory uh both of our kids we gave them a car when they were 16 a beat up card like i think we spend more than a thousand dollars on the cards
Starting point is 01:47:59 for them to be able to do the part-time job and school, all that stuff. And so he wanted to buy the flashy card, and I said no. I said, absolutely not. My husband was going to go sign for it. I said no. And so then he still went on and did it when he was about 19. And my husband said, because he was so young, the car insurance was going to be up to the roof. Sure.
Starting point is 01:48:24 My husband kind of, like, agree to put him under our car insurance, so it will be a lower rate. And, you know, that's fine for a little while until he gets some, you know, credit X, but he hasn't missed your name. Yeah, I get it. You'll need some time frames. You'll need to put a plan in place. This is just floating around. I agree, but you cannot put a plan in place if you guys aren't in agreement on. the plan and the fundamentals of this plan are you're very nice he seems like a very good man but you guys
Starting point is 01:49:02 are not operating from the same system on this situation with this kid your kid so you you have one view i think it needs to be this i think he needs to be doing this your husband has a completely different view and it's understandable rachel wrote a great best-selling book of looking at it right now know yourself know your money in fact i'm going to give you rachel's book because i'm I actually want both of you to read this. I think it is actually one of a, it's a fundamental book for couples who aren't on the same page about money. Before you get on the same page, you've got to be able to understand each other. He comes from a scarcity view. She wrote a book on it. I'm going to give you the book. I'll let her speak to it, but actually I'll segue
Starting point is 01:49:43 to Rachel, but here's what I'm getting at. This is a marriage problem. In other words, we're just not communicating well and aligned in this particular part of marriage, which is our 21-year-old son. I think getting with a professional therapist where it's safe, everybody's psychologically safe, and we can get to the root of this so that you understand your husband and you do, you have compassion for him, but you need to understand. And then he needs to understand how you feel. Yeah. And then let a professional who's unbiased walk you through where the boundaries need to be here. And then and only then, Rachel, do I think we establish a plan. Yeah. And I think, you know, sitting down and you guys figuring out what's the
Starting point is 01:50:26 end goal. And my assumption is, I could be wrong, is that we want our son to be successful in life, right? Be on his own. Like I think every parent, I think, you know, that's the end goal. And so how do we get there? And to Ken's point, how we get there is navigating two totally different routes. And we don't want that. And so for you and your husband, yeah, to sit down. And if you need a third party, bringing someone in? Yes, do that. But figuring out, okay, what is the best way to get him from where he is now, not very responsible, not really holding down a job, he's 21, how do we help assist in helping him flourish as an adult? And I think what Rachel said is so smart. I want to applaud you because I think it's a mix between total tough love and total grace. The husband is all
Starting point is 01:51:12 grace and mercy and you're like, get him out. He's working at 16. Right. He needs me paying his insurance. It's at 19. And so I think there is a balance there, Rachel. Yep. I agree with you. Absolutely. But yeah, you and your husband get on that same page. And I think your hearts are both in a good spot. But remember, we wanting to help him not harm him is the goal. And if you go your husband's route all the way, I think that's more harm than good. So hang on the line. Kelly's going to get you a copy of Rachel's number one bestseller, know yourself, know your money. Each of you read it. And I share it with your son. Let him read it. Figure this thing out. Then we're all on the same page as a family.
Starting point is 01:51:48 No matter what you want to do with your money, you need a budget. Start budgeting for free today with the Every Dollar app, the easiest way to budget. Track your expenses and reach your goals faster. Go to Everydollar.com today. Hey

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.