The Ramsey Show - App - You Don't Have To Trade Money for Happiness! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: September 1, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. He is the host of a brand-new book that will be coming out in just about a month here,

From Paycheck to Purpose. It is on sale now, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. It's in pre-sale. You can check it out at RamseySolutions.com. We were just talking, going on the air, it's breaking all kinds of records. From paycheck to purpose, the clear path to doing work you love. So if you want to talk about career, you want to talk about getting a job, you want to talk about your money, your life, we are here to help.

The call is free, and some say it's worth exactly what you pay for it. 888-825-5225. John is in Milwaukee. Hey, John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, so good to be here. I'm a longtime listener, first-time caller. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? Oh, yeah, this is a question really for Ken. So for the past year, I've been working as a freelance photographer. I really thought I was clear about what I wanted to do, but I'm really having some doubts here. What are you doubting specifically? So I work in freelance as a real estate photographer. And so the past maybe six

months have been really challenging because essentially the market, of course, is so hot and crazy and, you know, you could sell a house in your sleep essentially. And so I've really been struggling to kind of make it happen. And I think just really dealing with like imposter syndrome as well, just like, man, there's so many other photographers in the area and things like that. And I really thought I was clear. So when you say you're struggling to make it happen, meaning because houses are moving so quickly, people don't need photographers and your work is dried up.

Is that what I'm hearing? Correct. Yeah. Well, so let's just remove that for a second. And I know that's hard, but suspend some reality for just a moment. If you were rocking and rolling right now, as I'm assuming at least you've been much busier than you are now, would you be calling me with doubt and imposter syndrome?

Probably not. No. So what we have to look at is it is your circumstances, it is your current season that is causing all of the doubt. And by the way, that's very natural. So give yourself a break. There's nothing wrong with you. You shouldn't feel bad about it. current season that is causing all of the doubt. And by the way, that's very natural. So give yourself a break. There's nothing wrong with you.

You shouldn't feel bad about it. But you're just facing some good old tough times. And when times get tough, we start to doubt ourselves because we start looking at all of the other things instead of the reality, which is because of these circumstances in this market, you're having a tougher time. But the reality is, is when you got into photography and picked up a camera for the first time, you wanted to take pictures. And you haven't lost that juice for being artistic and creative in that way. True or false? True.

Okay, so great. So what we do is we say, is it always going to be this way? Are these real estate circumstances in this current market, are they always going to be this way? Yes or no? No. No. circumstances in this current market are they always going to be this way yes or no no no uh are you still creative whether or not you're shooting real estate pictures or not yes or no oh yeah of course yes so uh photographers have to hustle you got to get out there so my overall advice to you is understand that what you're experiencing right now is good

old-fashioned uh tough times that create doubt, get clear. And I just helped you kind of reestablish for a moment what you believe about photography and what you love to do and why you love to do it. So start taking pictures of everything else. There's a lot of things you can take pictures of. If you've got to go work a side hustle for a season just to stay in the game, then that's what you do. But do not quit this. You will regret it if you walk away from being a photographer. I got lost in your story arc just a second ago. then that's what you do. But do not quit this. You will regret it if you walk away from being a photographer.

I got lost in your story arc just a second ago. Did you ever make a living doing this? No, it's a side hustle that I decided to make full-time last year. At exactly the wrong time. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, not your fault, but that's just the way it worked out. Thank you to pandemics and so forth the um um so when you were in the side hustle what kind of money were you making um it was less than 20 000 uh and what have you made now that it's full time and times are

tough uh even less than that i'd say yeah all right yeah so it's still a side hustle but we don't quit i mean we do so you got one of two options you can backfill the hard times with a uh and make it a side hustle again with a new with a new gig that's a temporary gig it's going to be two years three years you're going to work a job while you build this thing back up you get back get your feet back under you because you got the wind knocked out of you um because you jumped at exactly the wrong time like they moved the freaking boat right as you jumped you know i mean somebody hit the gas on it and you know that kind of thing it wasn't your fault but it's like a bad trick you know a cosmic jokester so uh the and the other option is that you can look at it your business model and go

okay real estate is and i hey i got my real estate license in 1978 john wow this is the weirdest market i have ever seen i'm telling you i mean it's a weird it's got so many components to it elements to it that are just strange. So, you know, is it going to last that way? Absolutely not. It's just an anomaly. And so it's not status quo. It's not projectable into the future.

It's not that kind of stuff. So having said that, you either backfill with a full-time gig like you used to do and go get a similar job like you used to have just as a, you know, and say, I'm going to do this for two, three years, get my feet back under me let this market stabilize and then re-enter or you pivot with the photography and go i'm going to take pictures of stuff other than houses and try to add some things to your product line that is happening right now uh kids sports i had a friend that made a bazillion dollars taking little league sport pictures easiest sale in the history of the world sport picture hey parents you want a picture with your kid and his soccer jersey the only problem you got is there's other people doing

it but i mean it's just yes sure it is i mean and action photos of a six-year-old playing soccer i mean it's amazing so So I don't know. I'm just making stuff up here. But that camera can point at things other than just houses. Yeah, you've got to diversify. But the big thing is you don't quit. You know, it's like he called and said, I thought I was clear. No, you didn't.

You were clear. You're absolutely still clear. You just had, you know, just like some of the stuff I launched last year, my timing sucked. Your timing sucks, okay? I got some stuff that stuff I launched last year, my timing sucked. Your timing sucks. Okay. I got some stuff that I just assumed last year hadn't occurred. I'm trying to forget it. As Dr. John Deloney would say, I'm recovering from trauma.

Yeah. So thank you very much. All right. Yeah. Stephen is with us. Stephen's in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Stephen. How are you?

Hey, Dave. It's an honor to talk with you. You too. How can we help? Well, Buddy and I are students, and we're thinking to start a small consulting business together until we're done with school. And, well, the more I've looked into it, it seems like starting a business with someone can involve some challenges, you know, kind of like getting married. Yep. So my question for you guys is what are some things that the two of us need to discuss ahead of schedule to make sure we're a good fit and on the same page to do this together?

It's a wonderful question, and I've got a pretty thorough answer that I want to give you in more than 10 seconds because I have a commercial bearing down on me. I have to make money around here because Ken Coleman likes to get paid. It's all my fault. It's all your fault. So there you go. Anyway, we'll be back from this commercial break and we will make sure that we talk you through

how to deal with this idea this is the Ramsey Show You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries or CHM for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Trusted Provider.

From Paycheck to Purpose is Ken Coleman's new book, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. There's a Get Hired Bonus Pack, a Get Promoted Bonus Pack. You can choose between the two, all for $20. You get over $100 worth of stuff. It's on pre-sale right now at RamseySolutions.com. We're talking to Steven in Albuquerque, New Mexico, coming out of school, got his buddy. They want to

both be consultants. They're talking about doing it together, and he heard a rumor that that might be troubling like a bad marriage. So, what kind of consulting are you going to do steven uh we're thinking of partnering with local high schools and helping students apply for scholarships okay either one have you ever done that well we both uh have a lot of experience applying for scholarships and successfully getting them um so we think we're a good fit for uh for helping people that are kind of new to that sort of thing.

Okay. All right. What's the business model? How's that going to – have you guys figured out how you're going to charge? Is it parents? Is it school systems paying you? What's the model? So the basic model is going to be two tiers.

We're going to have one opening tier where we provide introductory videos where parents or schools can pay to access the videos where we provide basic stuff. And then if folks want to move up and meet with us one-on-one, we'll offer that too if they're in our region. Okay. All right. Well, let me start with the premise that i operate on and that is the only ship that won't sail as a partnership so i would urge you to try to figure out a way to do this as a joint venture rather than a partnership because what typically happens in all the years I've done business coaching, I find almost zero.

I mean, it's not quite, but it's almost zero businesses one decade later are still partners. The exception is by far the notable exception is medical partnerships and law firms. But short of that, the typical two guys that go start into doing something and what normally happens is one of you works harder than the other one of you has better ideas than the other one of you makes more sales than the other one of you is more personable more talented than the other and it can be you it can be switching places like one of you is more talented and the other one works harder and so they you end up there there's this resentment thing that builds up and you don't feel like the other guy's carrying his weight,

and it runs into all kinds of crap. If you are going to, and so I would try to figure out a way to say, okay, I'm going to go over here and do this set of schools. You go over here and do that set of schools. We'll compare notes. We'll help each other. We'll encourage each other. But that set of schools is your money.

This set of schools is my money. And even if we create a video product together that we share the cost on, when I sell the videos in my schools, I make money. When you sell the videos in your school, you make money. And just kind of keep it very separate like a joint venture rather than a full-on partnership. I'm going to challenge you to do that. That's what I want you to do because I think you're going to make a mess if you don't. But if you ignore that, here's still some guidelines, all right?

You need to get an attorney, believe it or not. I don't want to tell you to do that, but you need to draw up a detailed partnership agreement, and it has to address all of the evil Ds. Everything that's bad is going to happen just about begins with a D. Drug use. Disinterest. Default. One of you walks away and wants to own half of it while the other one keeps working.

That's default, right? Disability. Death. What happens then? You now own half of a scholarship business with his mom and dad because that's his heirs because he's not married. What a dadgum mess, you know? And so you've got to address every one of the possible negative Ds,

disability, death, divorce, drug use, default, disinterest. I just don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to walk away and go, I'm going to go get a job. We're not making enough money, but I'm still going to be pissed at you when you're successful later. And so all of that kind of crap. And so you've got to deal with every possible exit scenario, and most of them begin with a D, and you need to do that in writing in a partnership agreement before you begin. And I probably would not put it in the form of a general partnership,

which leaves you open to all kinds of financial liability. I'd put it in the form of an LLC, but it still functions as a partnership, and I'm still going to tell you to figure out a different way to do it. Yeah, and I would add, too, that I think that's absolutely brilliant advice. I would not even think about starting a business. I liked your idea. I'm going to edit it a little bit on the idea of you take one school system in this county, you take the other. Let's see if we can prove this thing before actually either one of us thinks about a business. Let's prove this model first.

I like that approach. And then the other thing is I'm curious to know if you've got a situation where maybe Stephen's more the sales guy, more the, you know, okay, this is the handbook on how to get scholarships. And maybe the other guy's more video related, and we don't know that. But in that situation, instead of a true partnership, maybe one of you is like, okay, you're the video producer. I pay you, and they work together, but it's not even a joint venture. That's a way to do it as well. And the other option is um just one of you own it that's right and you pay the other one hey and the other one can make

a percentage of profits as their income that's right but they're not the owner that's right when i sell anything with two heads is a monster i agree so if one was the video specialist the idea here is is that he gets paid a percentage on every course you sell, but it's your company, and he's your production. It's like a contractor. Yeah. There's something that we seek out, Stephen, that I want you to avoid because it's mythology. It's a lie.

And there's comfort in doing things with other people and not feeling like the Lone Ranger. There's comfort in you and your buddy doing locking arms and working on stuff together. There's comfort when Ken and I work together on launching Ken's book. And then when we add to that an entire team around us, there's a lot more comfort to that because it's not good that man be alone. And so you feel more invincible, more strong, more courageous when you have your guy next to you. And you confuse that comfort with the need to do a partnership. It can be an employee-employer relationship. Yes, absolutely.

And you can pay him zero salary, only a percentage of profits, and the part that he brings to the table is X, Y, and Z, and you bring A, B, and a C. And one of you probably had more of this idea of turning this into a business than the other one did. That's right. And just because you both want to win, that's what Dave's saying. It's so beautiful. Just because you both want to win doesn't mean we have to both be in it together in the same exact role.

Yeah. I think you're right, Dave. That comfort can turn into contention pretty quickly if they don't focus on those Ds. Almost always. Almost always. Yeah. Yeah. You should.

All right. Let's see here. Damon is in Topeka, Kansas. Hey, Damon. What's up? How are you, Dave? Great, man. How can we help?

It's an honor to speak with you. Dave, I will be brief. I basically want to know what you would do in my situation. I want to know what Dave Ramsey would do. Dave, March of this year, I became completely debt-free. I paid off my house after living in it nine years and ten months. Good for you. So I have no debt.

Thank you. And I became engaged. Well, I got engaged in April. And the situational circumstance is my girlfriend or fiancé has a daughter who's a sophomore in high school, and she's heavily involved with activities. So transferring to another school is not an option. The distance from my house to her high school is about 15 to 20 miles. I made a suggestion to my fiancée, give me a year.

She has some debt also. She bought her house three years ago, and she has $16,000 in debt. So I made a suggestion to her to give me a year to get my house ready to sell, save up enough money. That way when she marries, while we get married, excuse me, I'd pay off the debt because that becomes our debt. Does it take a year to fix up your house? Is it that dumpy? No, it's not. But I was wanting to save up enough money to pay off her debt. Oh, what's your house worth?

$200,000. Well, what would be wrong with just selling it? I can sell it. Yeah? And then move over in that other neighborhood and buy one and pay cash for it. Okay. You could do that, couldn't you? Okay.

What year of school is this kid in? A sophomore. Yeah. I mean, you're making a lot of decisions here for two years of this kid's life. But you may be moving again. But, I mean, you can sell it and sell her house and pay off all her debt and put the money together that's left and buy a house with it for cash. I think that's probably what we're doing.

It's just starting over. Let's wipe the slate clean and get a fresh start. Dave here. We just launched a brand new listener survey. We want to know what you think about the show. You'll be entered to win a $100 Amazon gift card. No purchase necessary. Take the survey at RamseySolutions.com free stage brock andellie are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Dave, it's great to be here. Well, we're honored to have you. Where do you all live? Well, we're on the go. We just left Bethel, Connecticut. We just sold our house, and we're on the move. Where are you moving?

We're going to Vancouver. What? For about a year. Yeah, new job. By way of Nashville. All right. I like it. Got some family here, so we're hanging out.

Just swing by and see us. Well, thank you, man. so how much debt have you guys paid off 100 000 all right love it how long did that take 34 months it's a little interesting 32 months if you count when we got uh severance i lost my job oh that's sweet we held on to the severance for a little bit and then uh we kind of considered that our debt-free moment but we waited till we paid which is about two months later wow 34 yeah oh so in the last two months you lost your job not the first two uh we had lost it in what after 32 months of doing it 32 months is when we got the notice and then we just okay until i got a new job is at the end of the story not the beginning okay yeah all right yeah And so what was your range of income? Not counting all that mess, but I mean, through it from during the 34 months. Started off with your program at around $83,000 and then started side hustling. I got a second job teaching animation.

And so now we're around $106,000. All right. Very good. And so today you're an animator. Yeah. And a teacher of animation. That's correct. And what do you do, Nellie?

I am a stay-at-home mom and also a homeschool mom. I love it. Very good. Good for you guys. Well done. So what kind of debt was the $100,000? Student loans. Yes.

Oh. All student loans. No, some credit cards, little ones. We had one bank loan and a second mortgage loan like a down payment loan yeah okay pretty normal all right wow wow wow wow wow wow well what got you started on this almost three years ago actually uh i had observed a really close friend of mine uh tyler kakak at my studio where i worked as an animator he was an animator too and him and his wife samantha were working really hard on your baby steps.

And I remember specifically a meal where all of us went out to eat and he pulled out his little lunch and it was like a PBJ or something. I'm spending 22 bucks on like a pizza.

Yeah. And I just watched him and watched their hard work, their sacrifice, their obedience and I wanted that. And so when... Watching disciplined people is inspiring oh yeah

i don't care what it is whether somebody's losing weight you know or whatever somebody's you know they're finishing their degree whatever it's inspiring to watch somebody pay a price to win so that that was it and then the tipping point for us when we decided it was time uh is when i was sitting in the car and i had a tax return check. And it was the same as baby step one plus our smallest loan. And I was like, I want this to last. Because it just disappears so quick.

I'm just tired of it. So I turned on your show and I reached out to Tyler, my friend. Who's here? They're here today. They're supporting us right there. I reached out to him and started asking questions and they lent us your book, The Total Money Makeover. And that was... There it is.

It just took off. Game on. Yep. And so you're busting all the way along. You got the finish line in sight. You can see the yellow tape, and the job goes. Yeah. We were getting so close.

We were on track, and then the job went. And this is the cool part of the story is I told my wife, I was like, my plan's not working for our family. I can't, I'm not doing this right. So I want to see what God's going to do. And so he's a bit of a show off. He is. If you go back to when I was 19. The whole thing, he thinks he's God and all.

We went back to when I was 19 and I had started working for a company. That parent company I ended up working for again later. So when I lost my job, they counted all those years of service. So my severance was the amount we needed to pay off our debt. Oh my gosh. It was just like that. And then you held on to it until you get the next gig. Which is what you should do. You should push pause

in the middle of a storm. COVID. And then you get the next gig and here we go. And we sold the house. Oh, there's that, too. So, you know, we lost a lot. It was a year of change and loss. But it was the best time to sell the house, too.

So there's some silver lining in there. Some other blessings as well. Yeah. So we're trying to look at those. Well, and it's all up from here, man. That's so cool. Well done. That's impressive. It is impressive.

So I got to know, since your buddy's here, did you start eating PB&J once you committed to this? Oh, yeah. I started. I created my own. And I lost a lot of weight. And I was like, you know, I made these pizzas out of tortilla shells. And I ate them like every day. Yes, every day.

Aldi's. Three years of tortilla shell pizza. Oh, yeah. Aldi's was our main place. We discovered how great it was for our budget and every dollar and groceries

is what killed us. So that saved us when we switched. Way to go, guys. That was awesome. Way to go. That's so fun. How's it feel

now that you're free? I have a cool story about that. I didn't know it had happened. We had received the payment for the house, the money we got from the sale and I was telling Tyler over the phone, I was like, I just didn't know it had happened. We had received the payment for the house, the money we got from the sale.

And I was telling Tyler over the phone, I was like, I just didn't... I saw the number and I was like, cool. But if you had gone back three years ago, I would have been like, thank the Lord. I need this. And so I was like, I think I don't care. And he goes, no, no, no. You have peace. I was like, oh, man.

This was good. I like this. That's what it is. We're not desperate. I haven't had that feeling before. I didn't know what it was. We believe we can make everything work on small numbers because we've done it. And God has given us everything we need. So everything else is meant to overflow to others. And so that's where we're headed.

Nellie, what was the hardest part for you? I'm the free spirit in this relationship. So knowing that we're going to have a budget was really hard for me in the beginning. But in my gut, I knew that the Lord was pressing something upon our lives and I should just trust him and follow that. So I think trusting and knowing that a budget is a good thing was really hard for me. Did you get a voice in the budget and that gave you more comfort or did he just tell you what it was no he actually gave me a little bit of spending it's called miscellaneous sink fund okay every month just for mama to stay sane just for a little bit okay nelly sanity fund yeah it's a good one you need to have a line item for that yeah i like

it like you know why do this debt-free journey with your spouse if they're not going to be there at the end that's a good that's a really that's an interesting insight yeah wise wise man so nelly i gotta ask you because i think this is really great a great relationship story here how long did it take for you to then acclimate to this and go okay now i'm. I've got the sanity part. Now I'm convicted and I'm all in. I think after our first vacation, we were two weeks before our Key West, Florida vacation. I dropped the bomb. And he dropped the bomb, but we needed to have a budget for this vacation.

And I was like, you did not. But he did. And during this vacation, I realized we did not have a financial fight. Not one. I could get macarons, and we have a budget for that. You know, that was nice. Yeah.

For the first time, I didn't feel any tension after purchasing something. So having that freedom was... Saw sounds like Rachel. I've heard a story about Rachel and her vacation by the pool. It's that permission to spend. Yeah, it's what a budget is. We've never done that before. I never thought of it that way.

So that was probably the biggest thing for us was discovering we're actually very free with a budget. Very good. That was cool. Good for you guys. I'm very, very proud of you. Thank you. Well done. Congratulations.

And you brought the kiddos with you. What are their names and ages? Go ahead. Layla, seven. Lincoln, six. And Leona, kiddos with you. What are their names and ages? Good. Layla, seven. Lincoln, six. And Leona, who's three. All right. Very fun.

Ready? Good, good. We've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. You've obviously changed your legacy and your whole family tree. Congratulations. Thank you. And another copy of the Total Money Makeover, because time to give that to somebody so they can get started. And that way you can pay can get started and that way

you can pay it forward and we'll we'll start that for you so congratulations you guys very proud of you good looking family it's awesome stuff a hundred thousand dollars paid off in 34 months making 83 to 106 brocknelly leila lincoln and leona count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one Lincoln and Leona, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! I love it! Woo! You know who the second happiest guy in the room is?

His friend who got him to do it. Oh, no question. Beating over there. Great legacy there. Way to go, man. That's pretty cool. How about the kiddos, Dave? They crushed it.

Yeah, they were practicing. Yeah. That had been rehearsed. Well done. And you know what? They may remember it, too. The day their family changed their life. This is the Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Homeschool parents, we know that preparing your teen for the real world can feel like a really big job. It does for all parents. And teaching them complicated money topics like compound interest, taxes, insurance, and don't get in debt, but you can do it. Our homeschool curriculum can help foundations in personal finance. It's helped over 5 million students learn the money lessons that they need to thrive now and down the road. This homeschool curriculum has all of the lesson plans, video content, and activities already created, giving you some well-needed time back in your day. Text HOMESCHOOL to 33789 to learn more about our life-changing personal finance curriculum for middle and high schoolers.

Text HOMESCHOOL to 33789. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Melissa in Alabama. I'm 35 years old, have worked at a major corporation for 10 years,

and advanced my career to a very comfortable financial spot. However, this role has been physically and mentally draining since COVID. I'm grateful for the job and the benefits. However, I'm extremely unhappy. My husband is also starting up a side hustle, and I'm building my own business doing something that fills my cup. We are selling a rental home, and I plan on taking a 12-month sabbatical from my job to build our businesses. We would rely on the profit from the rental sale to offset my income. Should we be investing the sale proceeds instead of using them this way, or does happiness and quality of life outweigh investing? Oh, brother.

The way this question is set up, it's almost impossible for me. Drama queen question. So here's the deal. Does happiness matter? brother the way this question is set up it's almost impossible for drama queen yeah question does happiness matter yeah no come on the baby steps in the financial plan that we teach at ramsey solutions is what matters so assuming the sabbatical means you can return to the job in 12 months and that you do regardless of how much you grow this business, and you don't go backwards in the financial plan that we teach, the baby steps, then sure. But there's so much in here that's unknown and up for opinion and up for emotion. It's really, really hard to delineate an answer there with all that's being presented. But don't go backwards financially.

Not for me, it's not. I can cut right through this crap. Here's the deal. When you were doing just fine until you couch it at the end, does happiness and quality of life outweigh investing? They are not mutually exclusive, kiddo. You can actually do both. And so here's the thing.

You are just sick and tired of this job. Well, so suck it up until you can get your side hustle up and running. You keep working until you get your side hustle up and running. You get it up and running. When you get it up and running and get some money coming in, then you can afford to quit. You quit. But you don't burn off the rental property on the false doctrine,

the fatalistic premise that somehow you have to trade money for happiness. That's absolute horse crap. Okay, you're just pissed off. You're scared. You're tired. Whatever's going on over at this place you're working, and you do need to exit that place, but you need to tap the brakes and exit it a little bit slower

and get your dadgum side hustle up and running. But you just put too much drama on here. You just really did. You're not going to die. Nobody's trying to kill you. You're okay. You just don't like it anymore. You've been there 10 years, and suddenly you have to hit eject and shoot into the stratosphere.

Just calm down a little bit get your side hustle going use all of the dissatisfaction that you have as fuel for your energy to work a lot of extra hours on this side hustle work like a maniac for 6 to 12 months get that side hustle money coming in and uh then uh then you can quit and you don't have to sell the rental to pull that off. If you want to sell the rental, that's fine, but don't sell the rental and then burn the money at the altar of happiness. That's absolute BS. It's overplayed. Sorry.

I've been in situations where I'm disgusted, too, and it took me a while to dig out of the manure, but it takes a while to shovel when there's a full truckload of it. So just shovel, kid. Shovel. You'll be all right. God, I'm getting old and angry. It's just grouchy.

No, I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think there's so much more I'd love to know on this particular question, but I agree with what you're saying. That's definitely an option. I just don't want to see somebody go backwards financially because they want to grow the side hustle faster. There's no reason to. There's no reason to. And the side hustle is unproven.

Oh, well, yeah. We don't even know what it is. I mean, my goodness. Would 12 months even grow it? That's what I mean. Jump and go. Hope you hit. There's no guarantee that a 12-month sabbatical gets the business where you want it to.

There's no guarantee the business ever gets there. Exactly. So that's why there's a very interesting question. Yeah. But it's just what happens is that people, they build up. We all do this. But it requires some adult maturity to work our way past it. I do it, too.

Sure. I'm not any different than her. I'm a drama queen too and so you you build up this apex this frustration and it reaches a boiling point and then when you hit that top a switch flips and you're just ready to do anything to get away from it you just like you know it was a slow climb to get there but once you're there it's like whatever it takes i got to get away from this situation because this situation is driving me bananas and unless you're in danger yes you know or or there's an ethics problem or i mean something extreme you know all it is is just frustration reach the bowling point yes i agree and i do it all the time i do too i i you know i

go along go along go along go along go along go, and then all of a sudden I'm done. Yes. And I have to stop and go, wait a minute, that didn't happen suddenly. That's right. That's in my head. I love your analogy of the eject button. That's really strong because it's like we only hit eject when death is certain if we don't get out, right, or extreme financial harm is what you're pointing. And so sometimes we feel eject, but it's not really eject.

Yeah. But, I mean, it's, yeah. Okay. Rob is with us. Rob is going to help me get out of this. Rob's in Orlando. Hey, Rob, how are you? I'm good.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my wife and I, we're currently in baby step six with the goal to pay off our mortgage. Good for you. Getting ready to thanks my Mary way up for sure. We're getting ready to celebrate our 60th anniversary this weekend. We currently have about $213,000 left on the mortgage.

It's got an interest rate of 4.375%. And we are paying extra to do that. But we've also got some non-retirement investments, some about $12,000 in individual mutual funds and about $32.5 in individual stocks from my wife's employee stock purchase program that goes back about 20 years that she bought at the beginning of her career with the company she's with. Where did you learn the baby steps? From my wife and from you. Okay.

But starting with her. The essence of the baby steps begins at baby step one, and that is where you sell everything that is non-retirement and you apply it to the baby steps. Baby step one is $1,000. Two is debt-free. Three is three to six months of expenses. Four is you start putting 15% of your income into retirement.

Five is kids' college, and six is pay off the house. And so until you have done those things, you wouldn't have these other investments still intact. And so I would have had you sell them when you started the whole process, so you're late in the game, but let's go ahead and sell them now and apply them to the house. So the challenge that we have on the employee stock purchase shares is they're so long ago that we moved it all to

our SmartVestor Pro, but the base price, the purchase price for those shares didn't transfer over because something about the company that was holding them before, it was before the date that they're required. You're just going to have to get some kind of a ruling to establish a basis. You have to establish a basis, but that doesn't mean you can't sell them. You've got to somehow establish a basis for tax purposes because you're going to have some taxes on it is what you're saying. But, oh, well, do it anyway. Let's get the house paid off as quick as we can.

All non-retirement investments apply to the baby steps all the way up. I'm not sitting there with $200,000 worth of stock or $10,000 worth of stock while I got a mortgage. Should have been put on the mortgage. That's what I'm doing with it. This is the Ramsey Show. Dave here. We just launched a brand new listener survey. We want to know what you think about the show. You'll be entered to win a $100 Amazon gift card. No purchase necessary. Take the survey at RamseySolutions.com slash survey or text survey to 33789.