The Ramsey Show - App - You Guys Are Broke, You've Gotta Get to Work!

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

George Kamel & Ken Coleman discuss: Why you need to get to work when you're broke, Saving on utilities during inflation, The mistake of talking yourself into debt, Having longevity in your career. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your mind. I'm Ramsey personality, George Gamble, joined today by the inimitable Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show, bestselling author. And we are here to take your calls, take your questions. Maybe it's about money. Maybe it's about work, your purpose, a toxic boss. You're looking to change jobs.

You're looking to move, sell a house, buy a car. There's a thousand things rattling around in your brain, and we want to help you take the right next step for your future. So phone lines are open. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. That's 888-825-5225. Jeremy's kicking us off in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Jeremy, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey there. How are you doing? Great. Great. How can we help today? Well, I just wanted to get some advice.

We recently sold our home. We're selling our home. We haven't closed yet. And we're going to get a pretty good chunk of proceeds back. Some of that is allocated already to paying off a Chapter 13 in full. And the rest of it, I'm kind of trying to figure out what the best thing to do is. When we get the proceeds will be harps on debt free cars will be paid for chapter 13 be

paid back in full and then the only thing left hanging out there would be a 401k loan that we use as a result payment through my work and if we don't pay off the check excuse me if we don't pay off the 401k loan, we're going to come out with about $80,000 in proceeds left to us at the end of the day. The 401k loan is like $25,000. Okay, so what are the proceeds from this home sale? The entire proceeds are $185,000. $185,000? Yes.

Okay, and what's the total debt, including the 401k loan, to pay off the Chapter 13? $101,000 plus the $25,000, so $125,000. Okay, so even after paying off everything, you still have another $60,000? Correct. That is a good spot to be in after going through what you guys have been through. Where are you going? You sold the house, so you're in the process. Where were you planning to go?

Buying another house? Renting? What's going on? We're renting right now. We're ultimately going to build a new home. Sorry, Jeremy. Speak directly into your phone for us. Sorry.

We're renting right now. We'll plan to build a new home, hopefully, in the next couple of years. Okay, so you're going to rent for a while and you get 60 grand? Correct. Yeah, that's a good spot to be in. Yeah, I would rent for a while. I don't know the stipulations as far as when you're going to be able to get a mortgage again. Have you looked into that? I have, and that's kind of part of why I'm unsure if we take the 401k loan and pay that off right away or we wait because we'll need 20% down. So if we did find something in the next six months to a year, we would not be able to move on it.

That thing is gone. We've got to start building for the future. And right now you're trying to pay for the past while building for the future, and it's going to leave you in a risky spot. So I would pay off all of your debt. I would have a fully funded emergency fund. Will you guys have that? Obviously, with the 60, part of that will become the emergency fund if you don't. Sure. So what's the emergency fund? It's like three months expenses, right? Three to six. Three to six. Okay. How stable is your income and your family's income? Very stable. Okay. Yeah, I mean, if you want to lean towards six, after what you guys have been through, I'd have some whiplash.

I'd want to have as much financial peace and as much foundational security as possible. Okay. So then would that kind of start back at, we would essentially be at your step number three, correct? Yes, and then you'd be saving up for the down payment, which, yes, it may take a little while, but I'm okay with that because, man, you clearly have been rushing into some financial decisions that led you to where you of just math and what's going to work for the down payment i don't care if it takes you two three four five years to save that down payment right now we've got to focus be focused on intentional decisions over a long period of time jeremy what's the income household income uh take home or annual just give me the annual 150k a year.

Awesome. Yeah, I mean, so you guys are going to have a fully funded emergency fund, and then you've got a good, decent chunk started towards a 20% down payment. But listen, I don't hear on you the joy that I would like to hear on you, because you're like, well, the down payment. No, get rid of all that debt, man. You are free. You are clear. You are clear.

You want to talk about a fresh start. And honestly, not just a fresh start, but a healthy start. A fully funded emergency fund and a percentage toward the 20%. You can rent. You're renting anyway. You're not wasting money. Jeremy, I'd like to hear a little more juice out of you, man. This is awesome.

Yeah, thank you. It's a little nerve-wracking, I guess, just trying to make sure that we don't get ourselves into the same... Exactly. That's why I want you to move slow. What would have to be true for you to get yourself back into the mess you just are about to clean up? What would have to be true?

Probably just not making a strongly educated decision. Yeah, so are we going to ever take out another 401k loan yes or no no are we going to take out any kind of debt at all ever again no okay great news there was too much hesitation there i wanted a fast and hard no. Yeah. I mean, look, dude. There's nothing for you to be nervous about. Nothing. At all. When the time comes. George, let's finish this out.

You've paid off your house. Yeah. You have zero credit score. You teach people all the time you can buy a house without. Oh, yeah. With no debt, with no credit, nothing. You can buy a house. Tell him how he's going to be able to do it in two or three years.

Manual underwriting or a no-score loan is what you want to look for. Our friends at Churchill Mortgage, they do these all day, every day. And this is the right way to do it because you're not playing the credit score game, which, let me remind you, involves playing the debt game. You've got to get into debt, pay it off perfectly, don't add too much, don't pay too much off too quickly. That's the most insane part. People get mad because they pay off debt and their credit score goes down. And we go, yeah,

the system is rigged, man. So Jeremy, you can rise above this entire system once and for all. And I know you guys have been through this bankruptcy and that's got to be heart-wrenching. And I want you to look at that as your never again moment. And that is why I want you to do this slow. Pay off all the debt, get the emergency fund to a healthy place. Then we can focus on getting the down payment. You'll get there. You guys have a fantastic income. You've got your whole life ahead of you. How old are you? I'm 38. Oh my gosh.

30-ish. This is a great do-over. And you still have an incredible life to live. You got a family? Yep. I do. A wife and two kids. I want those two kids to be the reason you get up every day and bust your butt to make that money to put yourself in a place where you have financial peace. And if you do that the low and slow way, man, you're going to be in a totally different place just a few months from now, a few years from now, where you never have to hear from a collector again.

You never have to deal with a bankruptcy judge again. You never have to play the credit score game again. That's what this plan is all about, simplicity and freedom. Are you on board with that, Jeremy? Sure. Yes, sir. Amen. There it is. I feel like that's as much as we're going to get from Jeremy. He gave us all the juice that he could. He gave it to us. He's excited. We appreciate it, man. Hey, listen, if you want to learn more about bankruptcy, we did a whole episode on the fine print, our podcast on the Ramsey Network. Episode 8, Is Bankruptcy a Quick Fix for Struggling Americans? It was eye-opening. Go check it out.

Pop your popcorn. It's actually entertaining. Thank you, Ken. Appreciate that. Hey, more of the Ramsey Show coming up. Imagine a world where people never have to worry about money ever again. At Ramsey Solutions, our mission is to teach people how to get out of debt and build lasting wealth. And if that means we have to take on the toxic money culture that says you need debt to get ahead,

then we're okay with that. We've seen millions of lives changed, and we will continue to create digital products and services to help people transform their lives. If you want to join me and over 1,000 other team members on this crusade, we're currently on the hunt for web developers, UX designers, and SEO and content marketing specialists. To find out about these positions and more here at Ramsey Solutions, visit ramsesolutions.com slash careers. That's ramsSolutions.com.

Together, we will disrupt the toxic money culture in America and change lives. Visit RamseySolutions I'm George Campbell, joined today by my co-host, Ken Coleman. We are taking your calls, 888-825-5225. So this week, we announced that our Building Wealth live event is coming to both Las Vegas and Orlando this May. And Building Wealth is a hot topic right now. Everyone and their brother and their mother-in-law has an opinion on how to do it, whether it's crypto, single stocks, or zero down real estate. On top of that, inflation has everyone freaking out and so they're looking for some get-rich-quick schemes to combat it. So we're going to walk you through what's going on today and teach you how to build real wealth. The financial principles we teach are the only principles that work in prosperous times and in hard times. It is the quickest and surest way to become what we call a baby steps millionaire.

So join me, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Dr. John Deloney, and Ken Coleman as we unpack these principles and hot topics. So Las Vegas, we're coming to you on Thursday, May 5th. Orlando, we're coming your way on Thursday, May 19th. And stay tuned because we're going to have more events coming this fall. We're back, folks. We're back on the road. Me and Kenny Boy on the road. Oh, watch out. And I'm going to talk to Pete, our VP of live events.

I think we should get a tiger for the stage in Vegas. Hey. Feels right. I won't be on that stage. I'll tell you that much. Me and a tiger don't mix. Well, hey, tiger or not, for just $25, you can attend this event, and we've got a really cool deal.

You can get a four-pack for only $60. For those of you doing the math, that brings it down to $15 a ticket if you can find three friends. By the way, we should point out right here, I think there's potential confusion with these talking points. Some of these Ramsey folks, all right, they're budget conscious. They hear four-pack. That is not chicken tenders. That is tickets. That's fair.

Four-pack of tickets. I just want to point out the difference. A bundle. A ticket bundle, if you will. Yeah, yeah. You start talking about a four-pack and people start looking for fries and a Coke with that. Producer James got hungry there. A bundle. A ticket bundle, if you will. Yeah, yeah. You start talking about a four-pack, and people start looking for fries and a Coke with that. Producer James got hungry there. He did.

He was. This is a four-pack. This is a great deal. So don't wait on this, because the tickets are selling super fast. These events will sell out. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash events if you want to learn more. Let's go to the phones. Kaylee joins us up next.

She's in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Kaylee. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can Ken and I help today? So I'm just calling because my husband and I recently got into a position where we are struggling to pay for our phone walls. So I just wanted to kind of get some advice from you guys oh i'm so sorry kaylee what happened yeah um so well basically um my i am a financial analyst um in edison and johnson and i'm making 60 000 a year and i also received a 3 000 bonus this year um My husband is a real estate agent here and with the housing market it's been just you know a little rough. We also have three kids so right now we're paying like two thousand dollars a month in child care. So basically after am wondering what we should do to change. I have

a 2019 Honda Pilot with 34,000 miles on it. So I bought it for $36,000 and I can sell it for probably like $35,000. We also were gifted the mutual funds last year, $106,000, so quite a bit of money. So we have some things to fall back on. Kaylee, let me ask you this real quick. George will walk you through all of this, but we need to find out a little bit more. So how much money is your husband making as a real estate agent? Well, it totally depends on, like, the month. You know, he made, like, $40,000 in a couple months,

and then it was, like, just offers. No, listen, I totally understand. But, I mean, if you look at last year, the year before, what's he making? What's the average? Well, we just did our 2021 taxes, and our taxable income was $80,000. Okay, but you make $60,000. Yeah, after taxes, like after health care and dental and my Roth IRA. What kind of debt do you guys have?

How much? Well, in December, we just paid off all of our debt. So you're debt-free? Yes. Yeah, we paid off our house, our car, and $79,000. Wow. Way to go. Yeah, we've been working really hard, but I feel like we just hit a wall.

Well, Kaylee, I want to just encourage you that you guys are not in a dire situation. I know it feels like that because of the child care, and there's not a lot of margin in your budget, but you don't have any payments to anyone except the mortgage, right? We paid our house off, so it's literally just like hold on you guys have no payments in the world even making 60k in madison there's no money left over to eat and put food on the table and get gas in the car um so after um like my take-home pay is 343,400 a month, and child care is $2,000 a month. Utilities are, on average, like $250 a month. Our car insurance, maintenance, gas, around $214 a month.

And then it's just, you know, $50 for my phone, $75 for Internet, and then $250 we have our kids in some sports right now. So it's like $300 some dollars for groceries. It's like it's pretty tight. Okay. Where is this emotion coming from? Is it because of the stress of the very little margin? Okay.

Yeah. We just don't know when the next paycheck's coming on his side. So like we used our emergency fund the last three months, so it's gone. Where is it going towards? What's, yeah. Well, okay. So we were, we had, we were basically, we were overspending. We were spending more than my income made and like pulling from his income. Like his income should just be savings, but we were pulling from it to pay for child care and anything else. Like we were eating out, so we're not eating out anymore. I canceled like Apple Music, Audible.

Is he on board? Is he on board with all this? Because what I'm trying to piece together is, okay, so you guys walked the baby steps out, except for the fact that you didn't really adhere to the budget. You paid off debt, but you didn't really have a budget, and so you got yourself in trouble. Is that what I'm hearing?

Yes. Okay. Can I? Okay. So, George, I don't know if this is money advice. I've got to tell you, your husband needs to stink and put his big boy pants on and step up. And I don't know why he's not selling houses in Madison, Wisconsin. It's not like you're in the slums.

I don't have the real estate data in front of me. But if the housing market is so slow that he can't sell houses in Madison, he needs to get a better job. This is an income issue. I mean, you guys need to get your budget in place. But what is he doing? Well, he's with the kids. Wait a second. You're spending $2,000 a month on child care.

Yeah, $18 a week is what we can afford. That's with our kids. Their school, they go to private school, so they're in their tuition plus child care for our youngest, and then during the summer, it's all three of them. So the monthly average is $2,000. All right. Okay. So here's the deal. I'm not picking on your husband. I'm not trying to be unkind. Do you agree that this is an income issue with him? He can be and should be making more money, yes or no? Yeah.

Oh, we both think we should be making more. Well, then he needs to get busy. He needs to get busy. We are looking. We are looking right now, both of us, but we just like... Kaylee, I'm going to give you a gift here. I want you and your husband to go watch all the videos in Financial Peace University. I'm going to give you a year to Ramsey Plus,

and I want you to get on a written budget every month. I want to know where every single penny is going from your income. You make well above the average household income in America, and you don't have a payment in the world. You don't have debt. You don't have a mortgage. There's no excuse that you guys can't live don't have a payment in the world. You don't have debt. You don't have a mortgage. There's no excuse that you guys can't live your life with a little bit of margin. Hey, George, I've got to throw this in here, a practical thing.

You've got to sit down and be real about maybe pulling those kids out of private school for a season. A season. Here's the four walls. Food, utilities, housing, transportation. If you get those basic needs covered, everything else can go away. Every subscription, every private school, every sport. I don't care. Right now, we've got to get above water, and we've got to figure out what the root of this is. And if it's overspending, we're buckling down on this budget because we can't live like this.

You can't live with this much anxiety. You guys work too hard to be this broke. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, Ramsey personality and host of The Fine Print. Joined today by Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show. He's co-piloting today, and we are taking your calls. And, Ken, we just took an interesting call from Kaylee in Madison, Wisconsin. And she was very emotional, very stressed out, a lot of anxiety,

trying to keep up with their budget, their bills, their four walls. But the shocking part is, completely debt-free, home is paid for, and they make $80,000 a year. And it gets better, have over $100,000 in mutual fund gifts that were recently given to them. And they just burned through their emergency fund, burned through it for living expenses. Which pointed us back to there's an issue here. And she admitted there's been some overspending. Overspending, so that's the budget, right?

Don't have a budget. That's one issue. The other issue is I'm just going to tell you. I am old school. I think when you have an income problem, you go get your stinking fanny to work, and the guy doesn't need to be home with the kids. And the other thing we identified is the four walls is what matters most. So what gets cut?

$2,000 a month in private school. On top of the child care, on top of kids' sports. Over half of their income has been eaten up by this. And I'm sure most of America, they're like, yeah, that's how much child care costs, Ken. Tell you what, man, pay my taxes. I'm sending my kids to the old publicly funded child care. I'm telling Sparky to get his butt out and sell some houses in the hottest real estate market maybe in the history of the United States, or go get a better job. That's what needs

to happen. I think people get stressed and they back themselves into a corner and they feel stuck. And the best thing to do when you feel stuck is to go get busy, get to action, grab a shovel, man. So with that, though, I wanted to talk about this idea of protecting your four walls. Everyone's experiencing the pain of inflation right now. What are the four walls, George, for people who have never heard that? Food, utilities, housing, and transportation. If you have those four things, you're going to be okay. If you have food on the table, you can pay your light bill, your water bill. You've got shelter, somewhere to live, and you can pay to get

to work, A and B. And we're not talking Maseratis here. This is just basic needs. Then you're going to be okay. And that's the first thing we tell you to cover before you cover anything else when you start our plan. So our team just published a great article called How to Combat Inflation and Protect Your Four Walls. And we're doing a series here. We just did one on food recently, and we're moving into utilities today to give you some quick tips. Again, none of these are life-changing. You're going to roll your eyes and say, okay, George, shut the lights off. Big whoop. That's going to save me big money. But I wanted to walk through some of this because it really is interesting. So inflation is the highest rate it's been in 40 years, about 8%.

And since February 2021, energy prices have gone up by 25.6%. So we've got a few quick tips here on how to save when it comes to utilities. Number one, don't run appliances unless they're full. Ah, not only is that great advice for money, it irritates the stew out of me when kids are doing that. There's three things in the laundry, two things in the dishwasher. Yeah, let's pack it out, man. And what's interesting, Ken, pre-rinsing, waste of time, waste of water. The dishwashers today are made to get the gunk off.

All right, now I've got to tell you something. Tell that to Stacy. Stepping on my toes, I'm going to take that home with me. I'm not even kidding right now. This was not a dig at Stacy. I am a pre-rinse. In fact, I'm the guy that not only do I pre-rinse, I give it a little bit of a scrub before I put it in there.

Why am I doing this now? You own a dishwasher, Ken. You're telling me that I can put it in there with the caked pasta that was overcooked in the microwave? I have teenagers. Do you live on Little House on the Prairie? What's going on here, man? Use the dishwasher. It's there for you.

No, you didn't answer my question. Will it? Kelly knows. I mean, come on. Don't look at Kelly. Teenagers, they overcook stuff in the microwave. So the pasta and the cheese is embedded into the plate. You're telling me that the modern dishwasher will get that off?

Listen, Ken, I'm not here to be the ShamWow Pitchman to tell you how your dishwasher is going to change your life. Until I know, folks, I'm going to continue with the rinse and light scrub before I put it in the dishwasher. Sounds like a parenting problem. Sounds like a control issue. All right. Moving on.

Number two, program your thermostat. I'm one of those millennials. I've got the smart thermostat. This is big. So if you're not going to be home all day, the heat doesn't have to be pumping through the house. You can save as much as 10% a year if you drop that thermostat down. And I know my wife is one of those who's just constantly cold.

So we've got to have the heat blasting. But if you put on a few layers, you'll be okay. What do you have it on in the winter, George? I'm a 70 in the winter. We are 66 degrees at night in the winter. 66. Chilly. I get up in the morning and my feet hit the tile in the bathroom.

It's like, ho, welcome world. I'm willing to pay a premium. You're waking up fast. I'm willing to pay that premium, too. Not me. You sleep better when it's colder, by the way. Look it up. Sleep studies show.

Sure, at night. I drop it down to 67. I said at night. Oh, okay. I thought you meant during the day. You said 70. We're on the same page. Why are we fighting, Ken?

You don't need to be doing this in front of the kids, in front of America. All right. So that's a big one, though. And smart thermostats can help with this. I've got one of those at home. Yeah, it's brilliant. Super easy. Can control it from my phone.

By the way, don't let the kids operate it. Keep them away from it. Get a lockbox on it. When I was growing up, my dad used to threaten a beating. You can't say that anymore, but like a real beating if I ever touched a thermostat. It was a no-go. You were not allowed. No touch.

That's smart. We need to get back to those days. We do. All right, lastly, this is a no-brainer. Use less. So if energy costs are busting your budget, one of the best things you can try to do is use less of it. And that means being intentional. Even those little things, it all adds up.

Turn off the lights. Turn off the water while you brush your teeth. All of that stuff matters. Get LED light bulbs. There's all these little things. You skipped over the light thing, and that should have been a major point, George. Thank you. Credit to you.

Thank you. First of all, LED lights, game changer. You wouldn't believe the energy savings. They last longer on top of that. And here's the other thing. Turn the dang-um lights off. Can't wait until all my teenagers are married and in their own homes. I'm going to go to their house, walk in every room, turn every light on.

We're just like the old curmudgeon guys on Sesame Street in the balcony, just telling the kids to turn the lights off and get off our lawns. I'm just telling you, I'm going to take great pleasure turning every light on, leaving the refrigerator door open. To that end, check your insulation. Make sure there's no drafts coming in. Make sure things are insulated well. That's going to be big.

Energy windows. Change your filters. That's a big one. You want to make sure all your appliances are running efficiently. So do a little audit this weekend and see what happens next month. See if you don't save a few bucks. Yeah. A lot of people just tuned in for the first time ever, and they think they're listening to a home improvement show. Listen, I'm Tim the Toolman Taylor.

Yeah, you wish. So you can check out the blog at RamseySolutions.com. It's called How to Combat Inflation and Protect Your Four Walls. We're going to be going through some other areas like housing and transportation coming up on the show, so stay tuned for that. All right, let's go to the phones. Joel joins us in Portland, Oregon. Joel, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you, and good afternoon, gentlemen.

How can we help? I am 35 years old. I have never been in debt in my life. I've discovered this channel on YouTube. It's been pretty entertaining to watch. And I'm thinking about going in debt for the first time in my life. So I'm hoping you guys

will either endorse me or maybe talk me off the edge. You know we're not going to endorse you, Joel. How long have you been watching? Well, hear me out. Alright, let's hear him out. Let's hear him out. Give him a shot. No, I don't want to hear this out it'll be entertaining all right very least you 30 seconds you have 30 seconds 30 seconds as to why you should get debt for the first time in your life go

okay so my my wife and i are stable educated good income household take-home pay of about 130 000 a year we own a home valued probably around 750 000 which we bought from my mother and for a very very good price and now we've got this home and we want to start building a dividend uh snowball we want to start building something that's going to start compounding and building up. Now, we can do what we're doing and save and pay with cash and do it little by little, but we've got this valuable thing we're living in called a house, and my wife said, well, what if we borrowed against the house? You continue to work, pay the bank for the payments, but we can get some cash right away to put in and get a big snowball started

rather than start with a small snowball. And some of these dividends are paying much higher rates than the interest rate that the bank would be charging us. So is the math not working out? What am I missing? You've just got a little starry-eyed about the money you could be making when right in front of you, you've got a fantastic income. You have some great wealth-building tools at your disposal, a 401k, an IRA,

good growth stock mutual funds. Don't try to play a shortcut game, man. It's going to end with you getting burnt, and I don't want that for you. You guys have done so well. There's no reason to go into debt. You guys have this amazing house, a great income.

You're doing great. You're not behind. I think this is the message if I could share with your wife. You guys aren't behind. You're ahead of the game. Relax. Stay the course, man. Your greatest wealth building tool is your income. And when you pay it to lenders, you don't get to keep it and you don't get to build wealth. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back, America. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined today by Ken Coleman.

Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color, like Ken and I would probably do. I've done that. They will remake your blinds for free. True story. Mismeasured because I'm an idiot. You're not an idiot. When it comes to these kind of things, I'm an idiot.

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Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Brian in Missouri. He asks, I'm 27 years old and I have been working in the natural gas industry since I was 20. I don't have a degree, and I make very good money and enjoy the work. The last few years, it has seemed that our country is moving away from my industry. I have a fear that later in my career, I could be out of a job. Is this a rational fear, or am I paranoid? Should I be looking into other careers? Okay, Brian. First of all, I think it's a good question, right?

It's a forward-thinking question. What's going on in the natural gas industry? Are these real trends that we need to be worried about? Or is it just kind of the ups and downs as we see new types of energy become available for consumers? Two things on this. I'm not a natural gas expert, but I have a hard time believing that the natural gas industry is going to completely go away. I just don't see that going away. It is still cost effective, and I think it's very viable. However, you are in the industry, and you need to talk to real industry experts in your company, do your homework, and figure out, is this something that over time is going to go completely away? That would be the first question. So I don't think that you need to be fearful.

I think that you need to be vigilant. There's a difference. I'm looking, I'm watching, I'm scanning the future, kind of seeing what's moving, but I'm not going to be fearful. Now, the second thing, George, that I would say to Brian is you do a certain type of work in the natural gas industry, right? So you aren't someone who is only capable of working in that industry. You are in, let's call it the energy industry. So therefore, whatever you do in your day-to-day work and the skill set that you've developed, plus the experience that you've developed, is all going to allow you to move into multiple different industries. So from that standpoint, I wouldn't be afraid at all. Yeah, I think these skills are going to transfer to whatever industry, if it even does go away, Ken, like you're talking about. I don't know that it will in our lifetime. I honestly can't see it unless natural gas just becomes almost like an extinct resource.

But I've got to tell you, I use it all the time. I've got a world-class griddle, George. It's huge. And it connects right to the old gas line. Natural gas. People love it. People love to cook on it. Chefs all over the country.

It's fantastic. I don't see it going away anytime soon, but I think he does have a right to stay afoot with the trends. He's a smart guy. I would get the facts. Unless I start seeing other natural gas companies shut down, layoffs are happening all around me, I see the writing on the wall, but let's not lose sleep

over that right now. That could be 30, 40, 100 years from now. Here's the key, and I want other people to hear this because this is a relevant question for a large portion of our audience. Your skill set and your experience is transferable. I'm going to say it again.

Your skill set and your experience is transferable. You might need to get a certification here or there, but the bottom line is you are not stuck in one industry. And I get this call all the time on the Ken Coleman Show. Ken, I'm a teacher.

I want to get out. Ken, I'm a nurse. I want to get out. Or whatever it is, we hear this the most from our military men and women. They feel like because they've only had a career in the military that they can't get a job in the private sector. And I say, wait a second. You work for one of the great organizations in the world. And you have skills, yes or no, and you have experience. And then where is that transferable in the private sector? And the reality is in today's world, our military men

and women are just premium because of their discipline, because of their character and commitment. So don't get too scared. Just start looking into it. Good encouragement for Brian there. Thanks for the question. All right, open phones this hour. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. Leanne joins us in Macon, Georgia. Leanne, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, how are y'all doing? Great.

How can we help? Okay, so me and my husband are on baby step two. We should be finished September 2023. Nice. My husband makes about $5,000 a month. That covers our four walls and our minimum debt payment. My income is commission-based, but that's what we're doing our snowball off of. My mother, my mother-in-law, and my father-in-law all live on our property.

None of them have any retirement or any savings. They're all in their 60s and subpar health. And I'm trying to figure out if we need to fix our budget to be able to afford long-term care insurance for them because they can't, or if it should just be because they would qualify for, you know, well care or welfare, whatever you call that. But I know that's not the best option. So I'm trying to figure out which route we need to take. That's a great question. And you sound like just an incredible woman for taking this on. Mom, mother-in-law and father-in-law,

and they're broke. They're unable to work? My father-in-law has an amputation, so he has a disability. My mother-in-law just lost her job two weeks ago. She was laid off. My mom currently works, but she has a ton of debt, student loans, medical bills, consumer debt, just the whole nine yards. Well, they need to pay off their debts. They need to be working if they're able to work. I don't want you to take on the burden of these three folks who have not done a good job taking care of themselves because that's going to put both of you guys in a hole.

You've got your own path, your own financial journey you're on. I think it's great that you're letting them live on the property, but they need to get to work if they can, and she needs to get this debt, the medical debt negotiated, the student loans paid off, and get back to work. And I know there's been some setbacks. It sounds like they're just a little bit downtrodden, it sounds like. Yeah. What was your mother-in-law doing before she was laid off? She worked in a medical office doing billing.

Yeah. Yeah, I got to tell you, I mean, she replaces that job, and now if they have some discipline, I think George is right. I think you're kind enough to let them live there, and I think if you sit down with them and go, hey, we can help you, but here's the only way we can help right now beyond what we're doing, and that is helping you understand budgeting, you know? George, let's give them some financial resources for the in-laws and mom here. Oh, absolutely. We can definitely do that.

So, Leanne, are they paying you guys anything to live on the property? They help pay the electric bill because our well is together and things of that nature. And we have cows and chickens, and they pay for the feed. So we're talking like $50 a month. This isn't a lot. It's not, Okay. So therefore, any income they do have can be put to use because they don't really have living expenses. And so I think they've gotten a little comfortable living on your property, to be honest, and they don't feel like there's any real rush to get themselves in financial order. Therefore, you

shouldn't be in a rush to get them in financial order. They have to care more than you do. Bingo, bingo, bingo. Leanne, I want to make sure you heard what George has said. I think he just dropped some absolute truth on you. And I'm not trying to be unkind to your in-laws and your mom. There's no urgency. They don't, it doesn't, and I'm going to tell you why. And I get it.

I'm not knocking on them. It's just this is the human condition. There's no urgency because their four walls are essentially taken care of. George has been talking about the four walls all week. And so there's no urgency for them to dig themselves out. You've already done them a big kindness. You do not need to enable them financially by paying for long-term care, paying for any of their debt. That is not on you.

Those are decisions they made. They are grown adults, and they have to deal with the consequences of that. And that's not unkind, but you guys have your own journey ahead of you. So you've got to put your mask on first before we go helping them out. So should they get long-term care? Yes. If they can't afford it, tough cookies. They're going to have to deal with some really terrible health care in their old age.

And I don't want that for them. But it's not on you to spend half of your income trying to make sure that they're taken care of while your family suffers financially. You're doing great. That's what I needed to hear. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. And Leanne, listen. Listen, Leanne, you're doing great.

You and your husband are doing awesome. You're going to be out of Baby Step 2 before you know it. And you're going to get in Baby Step 3. And you guys are going to be able to model this to them. You just keep doing what you're doing. You're crushing it. Here's a gift for you, Leanne. We're going to give you one year of Ramsey Plus. Hang on, Kelly's going to

pick up. I want you to all watch the Financial Peace University videos together as a family. Nine videos and get every single person on a budget. This is going to be a fun family financial affair. Three F's in there. Leanne, I'm okay with you buying the popcorn. Buy the popcorn for the videos. Other than that, they got it.

I like this. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.