The Ramsey Show - App - You Have To Be Intentional With Your Money! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods of Moving and Storage Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual actual amazing relationships. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

It is a free call, and we are glad you are with us. Justin is starting off this hour. He's in Knoxville. Hi, Justin. Welcome to the show. Hey, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's up?

Long story short, I've been put in charge of my mom's finances, and I have to decide on what to do, and I came up between, um, a few different options. Um, I don't really know what the best thing to do at this time would be. Um, basically, um, it's 325,000 and, um, I don't know if it's best to, um into real estate like a rental home or I guess also commercial real estate for maybe a storage thing or something like that, or if the stock market is the best thing. I've been kind of told both, and I didn't really know which one would be best.

How old is your mom? Um, if I do the math, I think it was 53, but she's been saying 32 for a couple of decades now. How do you end up in charge of a 53 year old? My, um, dad passed, uh dad passed suddenly a couple months ago. And so it was a, and he didn't have any retirement. He had cancer. That's not what he passed away of, but he had cancer. And so all of his retirement and savings and all of that was wiped out a long time ago. So

I was in banking for about five years before I got to where I'm at now. Why is your mom not able to take care of her own money at 53 years old? I think it's just more that since I had more experience with it and um she's also kind of going through um some physical issues right now that um she thought it'd be best to just ask me um so we're actually working on it um together it's not like um you know the way you were describing it initially it sounded like she was 89 and had dementia or something. Is she working and everything else is going along like normal? She was working, but she had a couple medical issues come up.

How is she going to eat? Well, as far as it goes, they had a home and um they're renting that out um so she has been so she has that um and she's been living with her parents um but yeah so as far as it goes i was just trying to figure out what to do with kind of, um, well, it affects, it affects what to do longterm if we don't have short term covered and short term, you have a 53 year old living with her parents now and, her only income is the income off of one rental property. What is that income?

Um, almost exactly000 a month. Okay. Wow. All right. Are you married? Yes. Okay. Your wife's going to get tired of this.

Well, they're best friends, so maybe it will take a while. Yeah. It's going to take, you know, over the next 30 years, this is it will take a while yeah it's gonna take a you know over the next 30 years this is going to take a toll so i'm really going to suggest that you're that you assist your mom creating an emotionally uh sustainable situation where she's like a grown-up yeah um well it doesn't sound like it right now it sounds like everyone's taking care of her you her parents everyone else and she's sitting over here living on two thousand dollars a month doesn't have a job doesn't have a career doesn't have any aspirations i know you just lost your

dad and i'm sorry for that i'm not trying to be insensitive but i want your mom to create an emotionally sustainable and prospering flourishing life herself, where she is an amazing woman to be reckoned with, not a kept woman whose daughter-in-law secretly resents her all the time her husband spends with his mother. And so this could happen. It may not, but it could happen. And I just, I want better things for your mom than this. So to answer your basic question, though, of what would I do? No, you don't take $325,000 and put this lady in a rental property. The last thing she needs is to be dealing with renters. She can't deal with life. And so, no, and you don't need to be taking on rental property for her.

You don't need to add to your burden. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to sit down with a good smart investor pro. There's several of them there in Knoxville with your mother and lay out a game plan that she approves of and understands where that money is invested and left alone. If she will leave it alone in good growth stock mutual funds, it will double every seven years or so. So she's 54. At 61, she will have $750,000. At 68, she will have $1.5 million.

So she'll be just fine with that and the rental property, but she needs to create a sustainable life that is good for her mental health where she's prospering and growing and engaging and getting traction in life again. I mean, reasonable amounts of time to grieve. Obviously, we lost your dad. And again, I want her to grieve all that. But the way you're setting this up is a sustained caretaking of someone that shouldn't need caretaking. That's the way your voice is.

When he first started talking about her, I thought she was in a nursing home, 89 years old. caretaking of someone that shouldn't need caretaking that's the way your voice is when he first started talking about her i thought she was in a nursing home yeah 89 years old yeah yeah and that's the words you're using justin and i don't want those words for your mom at 53 she's got a lot of life to live it's a bright sunshiny day outside you know i really i want her to i want her to feel all of that again. And I mean, she may go meet some amazing man and get married and really throw you off at some point. So, I mean, I hope she does. Yeah, really. I mean, I don't know, but I just want her to have a lot more than, well, she's going to live with her mother. Yeah. She's going to, because he's

managing that rental property.,000 last year i mean invest it and keep her hands off of it help her do that that's the answer to your question but you as as usual when you call in here you get more than you ask for every time they know what they're getting into dave be careful what you ask because i'm going to ask you things about what you ask beware because a personal finance is as much personal as it is finance and dealing with the relational things is there so yeah that was different yeah uh yeah yeah that hey man thank you for calling and thank you for being a son that steps up and helps his mom yeah i appreciate you doing that. Let's define help.

When you say I'm helping my mom, let's define help very carefully. Very carefully. Help includes encouragement to go be somebody. Not enabling. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer,

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slash store Ray's in Miami. Hi, Ray. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. How are you? Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up? So I just started listening to the show about two weeks ago,

and I had a good amount of savings, a combination of savings, along with a property that I sold, and I wanted to invest it. But after listening to the show, I realized that I should pay off my cars first. Good for you. I paid off my cars first. So good for you. I paid off my cars yesterday. I paid off both my cars. How's that feel? Does that feel weird?

Oh, man. You know what? It's just a little weight off my shoulders, but it felt so good. Yeah. How much did you owe on your cars? I owed for both cars combined about $39,000. Oh, yeah. Yeah, good for you.

That's a big stroke after just two weeks of listening to this weird stuff. Mm-hmm. It's because it made sense to them. All on board. So I did that yesterday, and I basically moved from baby step six, I mean two, all the way to six. Nice. Because I have done everything else in between. So I had a little over $ hundred thousand saved. I put the 40

towards that roughly. And I want to know what to do next. Do I, how aggressively do I go against paying off my home? I'm already paying more than I'm supposed to, but how aggressively do I attack it to pay it off in the next four and a half to five years if I throw everything at it or do I take some of that money and invest it like I originally wanted to do because I'm already saving 10% to my 401k plus my company's mattress of 6% so a total of 16% okay um my wife saves about 3% plus she's gonna have a pension if were you, you said your wife is 3% plus a pension? Yeah, she saves, she has that 403B, and then she also has her pension that she'll have to teach for about another eight or nine years.

Yeah. And then she'll get her pension. So that's good. I think that with the matches, I wouldn't really count those towards your 15% total. I would just keep that's good. I think that with the matches, I wouldn't really count those towards your 15% total. I would just keep that as gravy. But with your wife, so she's got her 3%, so maybe just a 2% more, I think, to get that up to 15% without the matches. And then what I would do, most people after they pay off their debt, they're paying off their home within seven to ten years that's kind of like the the benchmark that's the average if you're looking to go at a four or five year rate if your wife is cool with that and you both feel good with that that's very

intentional i think that's a good rate you don't have to be so intense that it's like oh we're sacrificing everything to pay off our home you're beyond point, and now is the time to live a little, be intentional about paying off the house. I would not start investing more than 15% at this point. I would wait until the house is paid off, and then you can start putting extra into your investment accounts. Not counting the $60,000, do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses? That $60,000 leftover is part of my emergency fund so i would probably so what

part of what's the other part i was going to invest 30 000 leave 30 000 for emergency okay okay and then and then i was going to either take whatever's left towards more investing or paying off the house. Wait a minute, there's only 60. You did 30 and 30 already. Do you have more than 60 somewhere else? No, I have 60 left. That's it, period. To your name, you have $60,000 cash.

Yeah. Okay, let's say 70. I have another $10,000 in account. Maybe 80 because I have another $10,000 in my account. I don't count that. Well, I count that. That's money. Count all the money. If you give it to me i'll count it so let's count it okay so all right so we've got we've got 80 000 we need to set how much should your emergency fund to be about 30 okay so we're going to take those two tens that are hanging out there like loose strings

and drop them in an account that you never touch we're going to add those two tens that are hanging out there like loose strings and drop them in an account that you never touch. We're going to add ten from your 60 in there, and that gives you 30 in an account that you never touch except for emergencies, a separate account. The stuff kind of hanging out there in the periphery is how it ends up getting spent on a couch. Okay? And so if you want to spend on a couch couch you save up and do that separate from your emergency fund couches by definition are never in an emergency so uh so that you set that aside we got that cleaned up so part of what we're doing here is we're cleaning up you've been doing a good job overall ray you were investing for retirement you had this piece of ground you sold you made

some money you paid off the car i mean you're really on track overall. All I'm doing is fine-tuning. I'm just polishing a couple of little rough notches off, okay? So let's get a total of 30 out of the 80 in a separate account, not to be touched, only for emergencies. And if I woke up in your shoes, I would not invest that. I would throw that at your house. What's the balance on your home today? About $290,000. Okay, so that gets us to $240,000 and your household income is what?

Take home is about $15,000 a month. Okay, so you're going to pay off $240,000 in about four years probably without breaking a sweat. Right. Yeah. I could. I love it. Yes. So I'm throwing $50,000 at it with that in mind. The reason I'm doing that is then you're sitting there with this fabulous $15,000 a month income and not a payment in the world four years from today. You will become extremely wealthy starting to invest some of that in addition to your, you know, then you go back, you max out every account you can max out, 401K3bs put them all in mutual funds and then once you max that out you do some side investing as well and you're going to look up with 10 or 15 million dollars in a few years because you're killing it well my my concern is we're in our late 40s

i'll be i'm 47 next month my wife just told you in 10 or 15 years you're going to have $10 million. Yeah, well. I think you're going to be okay. I mean, you're really doing good. You're really doing good. And one of the key elements people find is if you don't give your money to the bank, you have it to invest. So by clearing this mortgage and including throwing this 50K at it, the faster you clear it, the faster you don't have that mortgage mortgage payment the faster you start investing the equivalent of a mortgage payment boom that turns into millions of dollars in and of itself guys just those of you out there listening to this just go to one of these financial calculators at there's one in every dollar okay there is you can use it in every dollar and just plug in the simple thing what if i take my house payment let's say your house

payment's 2200 okay let's round it's say your house payment's 2200 okay let's round it up after your house payment's gone 2500 a month going in a mutual fund at your age how fast does that become a million dollars really fast just your house payment yeah just your house payment alone really fast i love looking at an investment calculator and plugging in some numbers if you want to get motivated, do that. Yeah. Do that right there. I tell you, it's exactly what Sharon and I did.

After we went bankrupt, the first liquid million dollars, not counting our home, that we had came so quick because, and it caught me off guard because I was playing a math game in my head and I just wanted to see what it would do so I took opened up a separate mutual fund nothing to do with my retirement after I was maxing out retirement but the house is paid off and I put $2,500 a month that's what it was it is an old house payment in there and I want just to see what that one account it didn't have anything else just the house how fast does the house payment turn into a million dollars and i didn't look at it again and i looked up it felt like in two blinks and it was a million dollars wow it was it's amazing it's just amazing just amazing

how we could possibly retire broke in america today it's amazing that you have to this is the ramsey show yeah really thanks for joining us america jade walsh shaw ramsey personality is my co-host on the stage the debt-free stage in the lobby of ramsey solutions ryan and kate are with us hey guys how are you hey dave how are you welcome where Dave, how are you? Welcome. Where do you guys live? Just outside of Boston, Massachusetts. Bit of a haul to Nashville. Welcome down here. Thank you. Good to have you. I hope you have a good time while you're here.

How much debt did you guys pay off? We paid off just under $128,000. $127,997. That's $128,000. Yeah, that's good. I like it. How long did this take? Almost exactly four years. Way to go. Okay, good for you.

And your range of income during that time? We started at 85,000 a year, and now we are sitting at about 230. Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo! Nice. Nice change. So what do you all do for a living? So I'm retired Air Force.

A year ago, now I do contractor work. Okay, very cool. I've been running a daycare in our home for the last four years. Okay, so what caused the jump from 85 to 230? Ryan's retirement. The contract. You got great military retirement. That's a nice chunk.

And you go make a bunch of money as a contractor. Yes, sir. Okay. Wow. All right. That just kind of double tripled up yeah and she also too uh she was hustling too obviously doing daycare stuff uh not just monday through friday but um on the weekends as well she does uh respite care for families that have special needs oh wow wow so she does that and um yeah it we make a lot of money doing doing that stuff so that's amazing

we've been we've been busy four years yeah i can tell what kind of debt was the 128 uh it was a lot of student loans yeah about 95 000 with student loans some car loans in there so credit cards so you used this uh three years of no interest time to get out of debt yes sir rather than standing around and watching hoping somebody was going to do it for you you're part of the one percent you realize that right yeah the less than one percent we we heard the uh you know the uh government coming out saying oh you know biden's gonna do this and gonna forgive all that and we're like head down keep working love uh yeah just no interest the noise that's right yeah because before that um i've i've also been in i've been in college since 2018 so before the pandemic and the zero percent

interest we were kind of just paying minimums and um the balances were just growing and growing and growing because the the interest rate was there and then we just kept on taking out more loans for my school until we started your program so wow good for you guys congratulations guys so what makes you start this four years ago um christmas of 2018 my parents gave all four of us kids um your book the total money makeover for christmas and so ho ho ho i read it right away. And then I asked Ryan to read it and he did. And I wanted to jump right on board and he was a little hesitant. I think he was comfortable where we were at. And we were kind of going back and forth about it for a couple months. And then it just so happened that our base was offering Financial Peace University

at the chapel. So I said, why don't we just take the class and see what happens? And that was February 2019. We took your class. Wow. And that's when we started. She knew what was going to happen when you went into that class. Well, it just kept popping up. It seems like first there's the book and then here's the class that you can run, but can't hide it sounds like it wasn't going away so I might as well just give in just get weird right that's right give in and be weird very very cool so oh go ahead Dave you're fine I was gonna say so what was the thing that was like okay we have not been doing this before we need to start now Was it getting your income up? Was it the budget? Talk to that piece that really had to change within your lifestyle. I think for us, it was just staring at the dollar figure, just a mountain

of debt in front of us and not knowing how we're going to get out of it. And we really needed to get on the same page with money in general. It was kind of, we were just kind of coasting through life, not really focusing on our finances. And we both knew that this like big student loan number was like hanging over our heads and we were just kind of pretending that it wasn't there. Cool. Very good. Good for you guys.

I'm proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. How long have you been married? 12 years. 12 years. Have you ever been debt free other than this? No. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. How long have you been married? 12 years. 12 years. Have you ever been debt-free other than this? No.

No, sir. Wow. Brought the student loans in and kept them around. Yes. Yeah. How does it feel to be free? Fantastic. Free.

Fantastic. There's like an air of peace in our house and in our lives. We've been able to do so much along the way um our oldest graduated high school we were able to purchase her first car for her um help her pay after after the pandemic yeah she went to college for a little bit but then um with her we were intentional about saying you know hey look if you don't know what you want to do and you don't have a reason to be in school don't go to school you don't have to be like everybody else and for god's sakes don't know what you want to do and you don't have a reason to be in school don't go to school you don't have to be like everybody else and for god's sakes don't wreck up student loans well that's what got that's what got me in trouble was you know everybody said oh just

go to college it's going to be fine you'll work out you're going to figure out what you want to do and i never did and i had all this debt and um yeah it was a big burden to carry around and then our two little boys um we ended up pulling them out of public school, and now we homeschool them. Oh, wow. So that's kind of part of our journey as far as post-pandemic homeschooling jumped on that bandwagon. That's good. Well, you have options when you pay off that debt.

The world kind of starts to open up, and you start to see, man, I could try this. I can do this. You're no longer working just to pay off debt right yes this is a hard four years though it was yeah it's very hard i mean you this is you you bear down i mean these numbers you you were you were cutting in yeah and we also we also cash flowed my college degree so i'm about to graduate with a graduate degree in um clinical mental health counseling wow good for you. And so we've

been able to, you know, when we started your program, we were like, okay, that's it. We're not taking on any more student loans. So in addition to paying off all the debt, we've been paying cash for my college, which was another, you know, $30,000 bill. That's excellent. Wow, way to go, guys. Congratulations. Thank you. So very proud of you all very very well done all right what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is don't get into it in the first place there's that but if you must um trust the process yeah probably stay the course i think we've we've had a longer road than some um 48 months is real yeah and it's been hard on our kids as far as you know they see their friends going on fun trips and taking vacations and um you know doing day trips to

the city and going out to lunch and dinner for no reason and we weren't doing any of that and you know it's hard to look your child in the face and say no I understand your friend gets to go do all this fun stuff but we're not and this is why um and so just it was hard to stay the course that worked out for her she got a car well I see I see your daughter is this your daughter to the left she's shaking her head like yes we did not do any of that yes but I got a car but I got a car she did yeah note to self I got a car that's pretty cool and she's and she's doing great too she you know she works full-time and she's saving all her money and yeah she'll pay cash for her next car and so that's you know that's the biggest gift that we can give our kids is just a different future that's right then what we had amen amen well hey i'm so proud of you you changed everything yes you changed your marriage everything. Yes. You changed your marriage. You changed your future.

You changed your kids' lives. This is very cool. It took a lot of courage and a lot of hard work. Thank you. Very well done. We've got a copy of the Baby Steps Millionaires book for you in the Live and Give box because that's your next step for sure. And, of course, Total Money Makeover so you can give it away and interrupt somebody's

life like happened to you. Yep. Yeah. I'd love to give a shout out to my parents.'re the reason that we are on your program they are baby steps millionaires um and so they're a huge inspiration for us um my brother is also on your on your plan and um my sister too doesn't have any any debt so our whole family you've changed our whole family tree and it's really thanks to them they They started when I was in my 20s. I love it.

Good for them. Way to go. Proud of them, too. Good stuff. Very well done. All right. It's Ryan and Kate, Boston, Mass. And $128,000 paid off in 48 months, making $85,000 to $230,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! I love that. Yeah! Man, how fun.

Never gets old. Never gets old. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 2 Chronicles 15, 7. But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded. Mary Kay Ash says, it's far better to be exhausted from success than to be rested from failure. Ooh, I got to chill. That one's good.

All right, Carrie is with us in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Carrie, how are you? Hi, Dave. Oh, my goodness, it's an honor to be on your show. Honored to have you. How can we help? So I'm really just looking for debt advice. We are struggling to pay back an SBA loan, payments for my husband's franchise that is now closed. Ouch. Yeah. So you borrowed how much on an SBA loan to buy a

franchise? It was a total of $223,000. Okay. What kind of franchise? It was a moving company. He kind of bought it at a premium because it was already in existence and we really were under the impression it would be successful. And unfortunately, I don't know

if it was just due to the market at the time, but it was really obvious after about a year that it was not going to be profitable anytime soon. And so he made the decision to close it, and it was a big risk to begin with. But we decided to go ahead and just close it and move on. He does have a great job now that he loves. What does he make? About $70,000 now. What do you make?

I make $48,000. Do you guys have any other debt? Well, we have a very small car loan remaining and our house payment. We have about $200,000 left on our house. Are there any assets at all left over from the business? From the business, no. You sold them or what? Yes, everything was sold and wiped out.

The actual franchise itself, is the brand still open? Yes. Can you not sell that franchise to someone? No, it wasn't going to be an option. They couldn't help us with that. Why? That's a good question. We asked the question at the time, and it was going to be a a very very long process to even try to find a buyer and

i don't know honestly it just i assume the franchisor has approval over any buyer but even if you could sell the thing for 10 000 bucks to somebody that just wanted that franchise, because they're probably selling that franchise to a brand-new franchisee for a good deal more than that, correct? It's possible. They kind of just dissolved it in our territory, and it was picked up by somebody else who's further away. So you've lost your rights to it by now then probably. Yes, it was closed. We closed it in February.

Now closing it is different than the actual franchise. A franchise is an element that is actually a right that you have that you paid for. Right. Sorry. So it has expired. It's default. All right. Man.

Well, so you got $233,000 on $110,000. Yeah. $23,000 a year is 10 years. $50,000 a year is five years. What are you going to do to get your income up so it goes faster? I'm not sure. We're hoping that his job so far it's going well but

what did he do before this? He's in operations and logistics management. He's worked for Amazon for a few years and he worked for another company for a few years. What did he make before he quit and started the franchise?

He was making about $109,000. That sounds more like logistics than $70,000. Yes, yes. And he lost that job in January 2021. They had a restructuring in the business. Yeah, but the logistics world, if he knows supply chain and he knows how to lay that out, that's a six-figure income. Yes, you would think that. No, I wouldn't think, I know.

Right, right. And you live in Tampa, freaking Florida. There's logistics there for sure. Let me tell you, Carrie, here's what's going on. You guys got the crap beat out of you and your husband's lost his confidence and you have too. And he doesn't feel like he's worth

what he's actually worth because of this failure. I need you guys for your sake to go get him a job making 110. He needs to get back in the marketplace with his shoulders thrown back and a little swagger in his step again. He's not a bad guy. You guys just made a mistake and bought a business that you didn't know how to run

and ran it in the ground, and you've lost your butts. But that doesn't mean you're horrible people or you're dumb people or that suddenly he's not worth 110 10 when he probably actually is at least one of the things I had to recover from when I went broke and mine was a lot more dramatic uh although there's you know what is major surgery surgery that happens to you what's minor surgery surgery happens to somebody else right so um yours is very dramatic for you I'm sure and traumatic but one of the things I had to recover from was I felt like an idiot. I felt like, nope, why should anybody trust anything I ever think again? Because I was so stinking arrogant before it knocked me completely out of the saddle.

And I don't think your husband was that guy, but it's normal when you go through this. It's the death of a dream. And part of your soul dies when you close that door and lock, turn the key for the last time and walk away. That definitely sounds fair. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I want to give you permission to grieve that. But I also want you to keep perspective on it and him to keep perspective on it because I think he took just something to get a job,

and he's just kind of curled up in the corner wounded right now. We definitely went through that. We are hopeful for this job. I mean, he applied for jobs for almost a year before he decided to open a franchise. We're on the outskirts of Tampa. We're not really in Tampa. So we weren't finding anything at all. And so when this opportunity currently that he's working for came along, he's really, really enjoying the job, and we're hoping that he'll be able to work his way up.

Well, I'm glad, but you have $223,000 worth of debt, and he needs to make a lot more. Yeah, well, my— Okay, that's how it's going to be done kiddo i'm not gonna argue with you anymore okay the thing is i understand where you are i've been where you are i and i'm sorry that you've been through all this pain um but yeah we we you know you've got a the big math says you need to put fifty thousand dollars a year on it and you can do that with your current income if you live on beans and rice, and it's going to take you five years.

Or you can increase your income by $40,000 and do this in three or four years and not have to live on beans and rice while you're doing it. And I really think that there's a tie-in here. When you get hit this hard, you look for a safe place to hide. Human nature does that. You want to go back to something where I'm, you know. No risk. No, like.

I don't want to stick my head up. I'll get it knocked off again. You know, I don't want to do that. So thank you for your call. That's the answer. You take the 223 and you divide it into the number of years you want to fool with this. And what have you got to do? What has to be true to make that happen?

And part of that is healing from this the rest of the way and um you're making excuses you are and part of that tells me you haven't healed from this the rest of the way so you shouldn't have asked if you didn't want me to tell you that's true and guys let me just tell you those of you in business out there well business debt doesn't count business debt is good debt tell that to carry all right you go take out a two hundred thousand dollar loan to buy a business you're in stupid land and you do that with an sba loan you're in super stupid land because sba is forever they do not go away they're like a student loan and I'm not saying Carrie's stupid I'm just saying any of you that are thinking about doing this you need to listen to her call because oh well I we're not getting it well right debt only works when debt

works and that's never you get your butt bit off here man people you got to stop it you got to stop it ouch Bless their hearts. What a horrible thing to go through. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade. Look, if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click the Get Started button.

We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.