The Ramsey Show - App - You Have to Forgive Yourself to Move Forward (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 9, 2019

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Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Joseph starts off this hour in Kentucky. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I've got a little bit of issue. I've got some problems with my finances, and I'm just trying to figure out.

I've been listening to your program. I'm trying to fit my situation into your solutions, and I'm just curious as to whether your program would actually work for me or if I need some different advice. Okay, cool. Welcome aboard. We appreciate you joining us so uh how much how much debt do you have not counting your home uh not counting my home let's it was about 198 so let's go 103 okay and what kind of debt is that? I've got about $58,000 to the IRS, and I've got about $25,000 in credit cards, and about $24,000 in car loans. Okay.

One or two cars? One loan, two cars. One's paid off. So one $24,000 car loan. And what's your household income? Right at 90, 90 to 95. It would vary between there. Gotcha.

How old are you? 58. Okay. All right. And you're married? I am. Okay, cool. Good, good. All right. Well, the good news is am. Okay, cool. Good, good.

All right. Well, the good news is you don't owe a lot on your house. How'd you end up in the hock to the IRS? Was out on the road a lot and just passed taxes, not getting filed. If I could get rid of the tax bill or the credit cards, either one, I believe I could see my way through this. But with everything, it's kind of getting me. It's doable, but it's painful.

So are you paying the IRS anything currently, or are you on an installment plan? I am not yet. I have spoke with them and kind of got some numbers on what it would take over the next seven years, I believe, to clear it up. At the same time, when I'm trying to commit to them, I've got some of these credit cards that are slowly coming in and garnishing on my wife's wages. Okay. How many have actually garnished her wages?

Two or three at this point. Okay. So you've got a bunch of them are way behind. Oh, yeah. So you haven't been paying the IRS. You're paying the car payment. You haven't been paying the credit cards, and you make $90,000 a year, and you only have a $95,000 mortgage.

Those numbers tell me you guys have been pretty disorganized. Not pretty, totally. Okay, fair enough. I mean, we're going to say what it is. You're going to look at the dog and go, what's eating him, you know? All right, you're good. You're good. Life's good.

Hey, because most of fixing a problem is realizing there is one. All right, so listen, you've lived long enough, and you have enough life experience, and dumb people don't have a ninety thousand dollar income so and talking to you you know uh you if i hired you and you were not caught up in all the emotion of this and i said your new job for a hundred thousand dollars a year is walk in and straighten this mess out you could do it the first thing you do is you do what i just did you'd lay out exactly what the details of the problem are. Then you would come up with a game plan to attack those details. And you would take the $90,000 that's there as the shovel,

and you'd sharpen the end of it and make it really, really efficient, meaning we're going to get organized. Oh, we're going to get beyond organized. We're going to get plain anal. I mean, we're going to get just completely freaked out, OCD, every detail. And we're going to put you on a beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched earth budget. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there, and you're not going on vacation.

You're broken, deeply in debt to the IRS. Does that sound fair? Oh, yeah. This is doable. I haven't been on vacation in 10 years now. This is doable. So are you doing anything now that's going to cause more IRS problems, or have you stopped that? I have stopped that.

Okay. Are the taxes all filed? Yes. Okay. All right. I'm going to give you four or five things to do, and you can begin turning this around. And if you'll follow through on those, then, you know, I think you can do this. Number one, jump online at DaveRamsey.com, click on ELP for taxes, get with one of the people we recommend for taxes,

and let them negotiate an installment plan with the IRS. You will not do well negotiating with the KGB, I mean the IRS, by yourself. Okay. You've got to have somebody sit down and talk to them. It doesn't cost a lot of money, but a couple of hundred dollars, and they can cut you an installment plan. This is not a big deal. A few hundred dollars a month will put this wolf away from the door.

Okay. Then we're going to sit down, and we're going to make a list in detail of all these credit cards, and you make $90,000 a year, and we're going to do a budget. Jump on everydollar.com and no better than that. I'm just going to put you through our class, Financial Peace University, and give you the one-year membership to the whole thing and that's going to hook you up with Every Dollar Budgeting app and the class on how to handle money. And you and your wife are going to go to the class and I'm going to pay for it, okay?

I've already ordered that. Oh, well, there you go. Okay. to go to the class and i'm going to pay for it okay i've already ordered that oh well there you go okay anyway so yeah when it comes in get the every dollar budget app out and you and your wife sit down together and give every dollar of your income a name before the month begins stop all investing of any kind all saving of any kind temporarily we have the irs at the door and garnishments at the door. We're not ready to do investing. We've got to get those cleaned up.

So let's just do some quick math, okay? Right. $30,000 out of $90,000 means you could live on $60,000. $30,000 towards debt in three years makes you 100% debt-free except your home, three years from today. Okay. I think you'll do it faster than that because I think you can cut deeper than that, and I think you guys will look for ways to increase your income during this time.

That's if you keep the car. You might even sell the car, and that would help, too. That's up to you guys. You can look at that. The car is not killing you. The disorganization has been killing you. Right. It's your number.

And I'll be able to pay off the taxes in three years. Okay, wait a minute. Listen to me. $100,000, $103,000, right, is everything but the house, isn't it? Divided by $30,000, divided by $33,000, $ 34,000 is three years. $34,000 a year off of 90,000 income means you're living on 56. You can do that. Well, that's before taxes.

I know. I know. But 56 before taxes. I'm putting you on beans and rice, man. I wasn't kidding. Okay. You ain't buying nothing. You're getting these people out of your life.

They're taking your life. They're stressing you out. They're freaking you out. They're affecting your marriage. And, you know, this is a radical situation, and it's going to require a radical right turn. Ready, set, go. You can do this. Financial Peace University is going to help you.

You call me if you need some more help, but I can see the numbers. I'm outside the mess, but I can see the numbers, and you can do this. You call me if you need some more help. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. has over 100,000 followers. That's over 100,000 potential like-minded people our team communicates our current openings to. We also post on LinkedIn Jobs because we know the right person will have an impact on our company for years to come.

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Terms and conditions apply. Randy is with us. Randy's in Oregon. Hey, Randy, how are you doing? Hi, Dave. I am so excited to talk to you. I just want to give a little thank you to Dollar Car Rental before we start because they just saved our bacon in Tacoma. So I appreciate them. What, did you get stuck or something or what?

We had a vehicle breakdown. It was a pretty traumatic thing, but they actually were the only people that would come out and pick us up, gave us a great deal. They were fantastic. And the guy who helped me was actually working the baby steps. So it was really cool. Very cool. Yeah. A bunch of their staff's going through our stuff right now too. So, and they take debit cards and we're just loving them. They're great folks. Thanks for saying that. They were fantastic. How can I help today? My question is, is that I need to know when I should quit my regular job to help my husband run the business that we co-own together.

And my concern on this one is a little bit different, I think, because I'm actually an I should quit my regular job to help my husband run the business that we co-own together. And my concern on this one is a little bit different, I think, because I'm actually an expense to the company. I'm an office manager and I do the same job for another company professionally. But part of one of the reasons that we're in Baby Step 2 and in debt is because I was working so much full time that we got into debt debt with the business with IRS. Quarterly is not being filed on time, and I was just overwhelmed and behind and had to file tax extensions and things like that. And I'm really nervous coming up on the fourth quarter with year-end and just not sure when should I call it, you know? When should I step out so I don't cause us more issues by being disorganized? Do you have a television? Yes.

Throw a brick through it. It doesn't take that long to do a quarterly tax return. Well, it's more than that. It's also just making sure that I do his monthly bills, that I'm there to answer the office phone, that I'm there to help schedule appointments. So what are you paid at your day job now? So right now I'm making $29 an hour, and my arrangement with them is to only work.

I can either work five days a week or four days a week. What are you making now a month income? About, with only working the four days a week, which is what I've been doing recently to try to stay on top of things, it's about $4,000 a month. Okay. Yeah. Are you going to increase the business bottom line net profits by four thousand dollars when you go to work for

your husband i think we can my concern is just if i don't know based on what well just being able to schedule him more jobs and potentially because i will be able to help him manage more employees so that he can um get jobs done a little bit more quickly. So he has more work than he can do. Yeah, he's scheduled well through the end of December, and we haven't even done any marketing. We have everything turned off, so he's not getting calls. What's his gross revenues a year on that business right now?

So he took one year off last year just to see if he still wanted to. Just how much are his gross revenues a year? About $250,000 to $280,000. Okay. So increasing it $48,000 is not that big a stretch? I don't think so, no. I don't either. Right now he's on a job, and it's charging $125,000 an hour.

What kind of business? Construction, and that's also the same type of business I'm working for on the regular job. So it's just a bigger company. And how many hours a month are you working in a typical month now for the other company? I'm trying to keep it only to 32 so I don't drop balls for him. 32? You're trying to stay at 32 a week? Yeah, just so I don't If you walked in and said I quit

but you can listen to me. You can rehire me for 20 hours a week. What would they say? They might do it but I feel like he actually probably needs me more than what I asked.

I just asked if they would do it okay so let's do that for one quarter q1 work for them 20 hours a week q1 okay improve your theory that you can increase the top line by more than you cost by leaving the other job okay Okay. Instead of just going, Geronimo, I think this will work. For sure, and that's what we've, you know, I did this once before where I stayed home for a year but not knowing anything about it. You're not staying home now. You're going to be at the office. Right, and I have child care to cover, too,

so that's also part of it is that, know don't you have child care now i have child care now but if i if i dropped it i could not pay for the after-school care of the kindergartner i think i could get it done in the time that um i'm more concerned that you increase his revenues by four thousand dollars a month forty eight thousand dollars a year then I am all that. Okay. And I want you to prove that to yourself on a 20-hour work week, Q1, and then drop the other job and go full-time or quasi-full-time with your husband once you've proven that you can replace the loss to the household of your $4,000 a month

that you're now creating independent of his thing. But the problem in business, especially small business, like you're in a situation like that, is it feels like there is pent-up demand. It feels like he's got more jobs than he can do until you get it all booked out, and then you hire three people, and some of them are sitting around twiddling their thumbs because you weren't right. And so you walk into these things with tests and gradually and incremental rather than just jumping off the cliff and trying to grow wings on the way down.

So don't do that. Test the wings. Test the flight pattern. Test, test, test the theory. Test the theory without putting your family in jeopardy. And I know you're doing that. I know you're putting your family in jeopardy. And I know you're doing that. I know you're putting the family in jeopardy. I know you're assuming things here because some of your statements are drama-based.

You know, as if you working a full-time job keeps you from filing quarterly estimates. Not even close. Not even close. It's four hours on a Saturdayurday morning and you can knock out quarterly estimates on a quarter million dollar business it ain't rocket science okay if you're if you're capable of doing them you're capable of doing it in four hours on a saturday morning and if there's some other bookkeeping it can be done it can be done the other times around that too so you may miss some television shows you might not know what's cool on Netflix.

That's what I meant earlier. But when you take stuff like that and try to use that as your case, as your proof text for making this economic move that is not proven, that tells me you hadn't thought this all the way through. And so let's prove it out. Let's prove it out for Q1. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. Hey, thanks for the call. Bree is with us. Bree's in it out for Q1. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. Hey, thanks for the call.

Bree is with us. Bree's in Arizona. Hi, Bree. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up in your world? Oh, a lot. So I actually just want to thank you. I really appreciate the fact that you're addressing this student loan crisis. I'm a marriage and family therapist. I completely cash rolled my doctorate. Wow. How'd you do that? You know, it was supposed to be about $250,000. And, you know, as I'm sitting here listening to parents now, the biggest way that I was able to do it was that I actually

had parents, not friends who were my personal bank, who just encouraged me to go to college for an experience. My parents made an agreement with me that, hey, we'll give you $25,000 for college and then you're done. And so when that $25,000 ran out during my first year in undergrad, my jaw hit the floor and I said, well, what am I going to do now? So I transferred back home. I was at Penn State. Out-of-state tuition was twenty five thousand per year. And my mom said, well, that was it. What are you going to do now? And I said, well, crap, I have to move home. So they let me move home. I transferred back to a state college, cashrolled my undergraduate degree,

and then decided, well, I really want to be a marriage and family therapist. I have to have my master's. How did you cash flow that? Oh, I worked. Okay. What did you do? What were you working at? So I had a variety of jobs.

I was a behavioral health technician, things that you could do with your bachelor's, just trying to get into the helping field. So kind of in and around your potential field while you started your PhD. Right, right. So then in my master's at Purdue, I waitressed at a country club for three years, and I cashrolled that, and I did receive a very large scholarship from Purdue. It was about $100,000 because I worked my behind off in undergrad. You're a rock star. Thank you for sharing this story. Ha!

$250,000 and got her doctorate. Cash flowed every bit of it except the first 25, and that 25 went to learning a lesson. Ouch. Well done, ma'am. Well done. Anthony O'Neill's book, Debt-Free Degree, is all about people like you. And we want a whole lot more people like you instead of $1.6 trillion of student loan debt out there. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Well, it's frustrating when you're giving it your all to get out of debt and build wealth, and then you discover your insurance company bumped your rate for no freaking reason well you don't have to sit back and take it get with one of our endorsed local provider insurance agents they are brokers which means they don't work for one company they represent a bunch of different companies and they can make them compete against each other fight for you and get you the best deal most people who work with an endorsed local provider

save around 700 bucks on their car and homeowners a year again these because these guys are independent and they play these companies against each other and they know who is going to give you in your particular situation the best deal they work for you go DaveRamsey.com slash ELP and click on insurance and you can get started right now. TJ's with us in D.C. Hi, TJ. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my wife and I got married last year. I just learned about you about two weeks ago from a coworker that's sitting next to me at work. Her and her husband teach the financial peace class at their church. Cool. So I've decided, well, my wife and I need to get on board. So again, we just got married last year

and we've kind of just been winging it. I mean, I kind of had my own independent budget. She kind of had hers, and obviously that's not working. And so we've started a budget now, and I haven't taken any of your classes or read your books yet, but we're almost done with Baby Step One. Good. But my question is, you know, my wife has a lot of student debt. And so listening to the podcast and everything, I'm like, well, we need to go pedal to the metal and Giselle intense and get out of debt. So the problem is my stepdaughter, we pay about $3,000 a year for her to play volleyball. And she's really good. It's the only sport she plays. And then my daughter, who's 10, we're paying $800 a month for her to go to a Christian school, which she's doing very well in. But I'm wondering if we should stop that to kind of put the pedal to the metal to pay down my wife's student loan.

What's your household income? Gross, we gross $154,000. Okay. And how much has your wife's student loan debt? $95,000. What do you guys do for a living? I work in a classified room, and my wife is an administrative specialist for county government. Okay, cool.

Good for you guys well um 90 i mean some large percentage of winning with money is recognizing that what you've been doing hasn't been working and starting to do new things you are doing all of that and you are a person who um lives by principles long before you met me and when you identify that a principle works you just apply the principle for you that's kind of who lives by principles long before you met me, and when you identify that a principle works, you just apply the principle. For you, that's kind of a no-brainer. Other people don't necessarily function that way, but that's a huge advantage to you. That's how your brain works, isn't it?

Yes, sir. For you, when you're analyzing something in your career field, you're looking at that going, well, that's either working or it's not working. And we're either going to do it or we're not. It's a fairly simple on off switch thing. And we're going to go that way. And what we've been doing isn't working, continuing to do what doesn't work is the definition of insanity. Right?

So, so you, you, you've kind of made that call and that, and your $150,000 income are huge assets towards you having a good end to this story. Okay? Okay. Now, you may choose to do away with the volleyball or the Christian school next year, but I wouldn't do it now.

And here's why. Okay. It's $13,000 as a percentage of $150,000. Okay. Three in ten. You said $800 a month and you said $3,000 for the volleyball, right? Yes, sir. That's $13,000 a year.

And so for today, those haven't been your problem. It's the lack of focus and the lack of alignment between you and your new wife, which is not abnormal. But you've kind of went, hey, I just found a system. I'm working the system. I'm doing this. And when you submit yourself to a proven system, you get the positive results from it. And you know that before you met me. You've done that in other situations in your life.

I know that because of how easily you just stepped in and said, game on. Yes, sir. Am I right about the way you analyze things? Oh, yes, sir. Okay. That's what I do on my day job. I thought so. It's hard to turn it off.

Well, the principles are good critical thinking skills is what they are, but a lot of people have to go through a lot more emotion than you went through to get here. You went, that wasn't working, that over there is working, we're doing that over there. It's pretty simple for you. So you're going to do great because of that and because you have a good income and your lack of alignment, your lack of actually knowing these principles existed were your biggest problems. It wasn't the $13,000.

So I wouldn't start there. I wouldn't start disrupting their little lives. Let's disrupt the big people's lives first. Okay, and she does. We owe, on my wife's car, she owes $13,000 left on her car. And I have $2,400 left on a personal loan. And then we have our home, which we got into two years ago, well, I got into two years ago, and it's $360,000.

So we're just stepping into the house. Yeah. You're okay. You're okay. The thing is, I take the $95,000 and the $13,000 and the $2,400, and I add them together, and I get $110,000 on $150,000 income. And so I say, let's do it in two years. That'd be $55,000 a year.

Out of $150,000, you'd be debt-free. Okay. It's just big number math, but that's where you'll be. Yeah. I'm deploying soon to a combat zone, so that'd be tax-free money that I also want to throw everything at. Absolutely. And all the more reason for you to be organized and aligned with your new wife.

And does your pay increase in addition to being tax-free, or is it just tax-free portion? It does increase, but not much. I mean, with the tax-free, it increases a good bit. Yeah. But the base salary of it increases only slightly. Okay. Yeah. But the base salary of it increases only slightly. Okay. Okay. So, see, what we're going to do is we're going to take every one of those dollars,

and we're going to crack the whip on them and make them all behave. Okay. To a plan that you, to a tune, they're going to dance to a tune that you and your wife are in agreement on. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put you into Financial Peace University to say thank you for your service to the country. I want you to go to the class that your friend's teaching. I'll pay for it. Included

in that is the EveryDollar app connectivity to your bank for budgeting. Now, that's important when you're overseas or deployed. If you've got internet access, you and your wife can still be doing a budget together because you've both got it on your phone. You're seeing everything that's going on. She's seeing everything that's going on she's seeing everything that's going on and we're still in alignment just like you'll stay in alignment in your relationship using email and skype and whatever else you can use depending on how tightly the screws are down on where you're located but um that's you know this will help you when you're deployed we love having the military on every dollar because they're when they're deployed because their spouse back, and then they can work together.

Or for those of you that travel for a living, you can work with your spouse with your budget together, and that's a big deal. So you hold on, man. We'll get you signed up for all of that. It's my gift. And again, thank you for your service. I suspect you're doing some things there that might be a little dangerous, and we'll keep you in our prayers and we appreciate men like you women like you that keep this country free so people like me considering yak and safety this is the dave ramsey show Thank you. randy is with us in maryland hi randy welcome to the dave ramsey show

hi dave nice to talk to you. You too. What's up? So I wanted your advice because I have an appointment at 145 tomorrow to meet with a lawyer for filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy because I feel like that's my only way out at this point. Tough times, huh? Yeah, you could say that. You single? No, I'm married and I have four children under the age of five. So you and your husband are filing bankruptcy? No, I'm filing individually because where we're at right now,

basically I've owned up and said that the debt that I've occurred or just made is my fault because I was keeping it a secret from my husband for a few years. He knew about the medical debt because I have a lot of medical issues that I'm dealing with. So I'm filing individually to try to relieve our family of the problems that I've caused. How long have you been married? It'll be six years in November. And during that time you ran up the debt? It's just been within the last three years that I was keeping it a secret. Before, it was about $14,000, and we got it almost completely paid off. We were following their plan, and then—I don't mean to get emotional.

A big major thing happened in my life. I got involved in a really big court case where I had to testify against my stepfather for the child abuse that happened to me. And so that kind of came as a big trigger for me, and henceforth came this spending of trying to fill the emptiness that I felt. And I was trying to fill it with things because I felt really lost. And I tried to make myself feel better.

And how much debt did you run up? I am told $28,000 in consumer debt and $6,000 of that is medical. And he knows about the medical. Sorry. So $34,000, 28 consumer, 6,000 medical. Apologize. And do you work outside the home? No, I can't due to mental illness.

I was actually just released from the hospital on September 6th. A trigger warning for your listeners. I tried to commit suicide because I felt like there was no safe for me. And now that I have a diagnosis and that I have severe bipolar disorder and really impulsive behaviors and a lot of issues that I'm getting things taken care of, and I've already canceled all the credit cards. So there's no using them anymore for me. I know that much.

So what does your husband make a year? He makes $50,000 a year. He's in the military. He makes how much? $50,000. $50,000. Okay. Yes, $50,000 a year. He's in the military. He makes how much? $50,000. $50,000. Okay. Yes, $50,000.

And you're seeing a counselor or therapist, I assume, or two or three, right? Yeah, three of them specifically, and then one for just medication. I'm not able to speak to them, you know, because we can't afford the gas and the tolls here in Maryland for me to try to see them. So I've put that on hold for now, unfortunately. Okay. All right. The first concern is you, okay?

You getting better, you getting well you being here you being with your husband you are the first concern and whatever you and your husband prayerfully need to do to take care of you, that's what you do. Okay? Yeah. And there's no shame in whatever that is, because you're in a series of extreme situations, and so you have to take great self-care in those situations to keep from letting things unravel further in your life. Agreed? Exactly. And if the removal of this debt does that by the Chapter 7, that's fine.

That's fine. I don't mind. Okay? I 99% of the time don't recommend uh bankruptcy and i don't recommend it here but i am more concerned about you than i am a lousy 28 000 in credit card debt or whether you have damaged credit for the next 10 years whoop-dee-doop-dee in the scope of things if you get well and you get past what you've been through as a child and you get past the struggles that you've had recently and you can get wholeness in your life again and spiritually and emotionally walk this out,

that's all that matters, okay? Okay. Let's do that, whatever that is. Now, if, and I can't do that, I can't do what I'm getting ready to say in a three-minute radio call. I'm not sure I can do it at all because I'm probably not qualified. But if your husband and you and your therapist decided that you guys wanted to fight your way through this, the math on this is doable. You can turn this around and you can

pay these people you can probably settle with them you're probably behind with them and you probably go through and work your way through this and i will assign a coach to you for free of charge if you want to try to work your way through it um and if that and if working your way through it isn't damaging but instead adds dignity to your healing, then we'll participate in that. But I don't want to lay a guilt trip on you and crush you, okay? Okay. And I don't know where you are. I don't know how fragile you are. It's obvious you've been through hell, okay?

And I don't want to take somebody that's fragile and dump a guilt trip on them over a lousy little pile of credit card debt when life is more important than that. So start again. Start fresh. Wipe the slate clean if that's what you want to do. If you've got the strength. I want to wipe it fresh. Sorry to interject.

I wanted to wipe it fresh for me because of what I've done. Listen, I get that, but if I'm your husband, I can put my arms around you and just say, you're forgiven. Ta-da, it's wiped fresh. Now let's go work and pay it off. But that has to do with how your relationship with him is if your therapist thinks you've got the strength to do that and if that becomes an integral part of your healing not if that crushes you and puts you back in the suicide ward again

okay but you know you you need to get the wet noodle and put it up you're beating yourself enough okay it's just some credit card debt it's just whoopty doopty lots of people have done stupider stuff in the last two hours on this show okay you're not near the front of the line of stupid you're not even close to the front of the line you just did you know you you have a tremendously toxic situation that you came out of as a child, and so you had some shame-based deception and spending. Whoopee. Lots of people do.

You've realized it. I suspect listening to you, you'll never do it again because it wasn't fruitful, was it? No. Heck no. Okay, so forgive yourself. Okay. I forgive you you your husband probably has okay thank you means a lot coming from you i appreciate it just i mean we've all done i mean i went through bankruptcy when i was 28 i had to go through these exact same emotions but from a different foundational viewpoint but i had to go

dadgum dave you thought you were smart and you were stupid and it took me a while to get my confidence back after getting the legs knocked out from under me my knees broken you know what i'm saying and so this has everything if you've got the relationship with your therapist and your husband to work this through, you hold on. Madison will pick up, and we'll assign a coach to you free of charge at my expense. If you don't and you want to file tomorrow, you and I are still best friends, and I'll still walk with you through your new future. Either one's fine. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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