The Ramsey Show - App - You Have to Know Where You Are Financially to Know Where You're Going

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

This is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your profession, and in your relationships. Alongside the incomparable, the delightful George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you all. George, you ready to go today? It's a Friday. You're not mailing it in. No. I don't even know how to do that. I'm a millennial. Come on. I don't mail anything. There you go. That's a very good point. You don't even know what a stamp is.

I'll explain that to him during the commercial break, but we're here for you, America. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Now, we're going to coach you on saving your money, investing your money, making more money. That's what George and I do together, and I warn you ahead of time, we have fun. This is serious stuff, but we also have fun while we're doing it.

Got to bring some levity to it. Yeah, or else we get bored, and we don't want that. By the way, great-looking studio audience today here on the other side of the glass, so we'd love to see you sometime. If you want to come join and watch the show live, we'd love to see you. Alright, let's get started. 888-825-5225.

Again, here's the phone number. Rob starts us off in Hartford, Connecticut. Excuse me, Rob, how can we help today? Hi, George. Hi, Ken. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I got married about six months ago, and I'm trying to dig us out of this ginormous hole that our prior divorce is, some poor decisions, and a severe case of cancer, and a wife-itis. Hold on a second. Hold on. What was, and a severe case of can't say no to wife-itis. Hold on a second. Hold on. What was that? A severe case of what? Can't say no to wife-itis. Wow. I liked it. I thought that deserved, you ran through that too quick. Can't say no to wife-itis. Yeah. I've got a similar case. It's called can't say no to daughter-itis. My 16-year-old's got me

wrapped around her finger. I really struggle. I don't think insurance covers those. Sorry, guys. It doesn't can't say no to daughteritis. My 16-year-old's got me wrapped around her finger. I really struggle. I don't think insurance covers those. Sorry, guys. It doesn't. Yeah. No, unfortunately. It's a preexisting condition.

So, but yeah. So, long story short, we're probably about 250K in the hole right now, not including the house. Part of that is, like I said, the divorces hit both of us pretty hard. Um, I also, uh, got in a car accident in December and then lost my job the next day. So I had, uh, uh, like three or four months span that was really tough on us. Um, but I am trying to, you know, we, we make decent income, so we have enough, we have a little bit of margin. So I'm starting obviously baby step two,

um, trying to get going on that. But the thing that kills me is I understand the concept of the smallest to largest, but the problem is almost all of our small debts are all 0%. And we have large debts that are 28%. And it drives me nuts that I'm going to spend, you know, 12 months paying off 15, $20,000 worth of 0% while the 30% is accruing $1,000 a month in interest. And I was thinking, you know, we can take a HELOC, cut that rate by 70%. It adds another $800 to $1,000 that we can roll into the snowball and get done, you know, eight months to a year faster. Rob, you are rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, my friend. This is not going to be the solution you're looking for. And I don't, I know you can crunch the numbers and see how

much you're paying in interest, and that should make you angry. But here's the deal. The people that actually get out of debt, they don't just move around their debts and get new debts to cover the old debts and pay off the big debt before. They just do the debt snowball and get so frustrated and so angry that they're willing to work as much as it takes to get rid of the next debt

and get rid of the next debt, freeing up the next payment. And you're going to lose all of that momentum trying to tackle this giant mountain of the biggest debts with the biggest interest rate. Yeah. So the question is, what are you willing to do and sacrifice to use your savings and future income to get out of this? Yeah.

Are there stuff we can sell on this $250K? Are there cars involved? I recently sold my video game collection for like $5,000. Hey, that's a start. But that was painful. Well, you've got no time to play video games. You're going to have four jobs for the next three years. Yeah, I'm looking at getting another job to try and bring in some more income to tackle this.

Now, you kept saying, I'm going to start the debt snowball. Where is your wife in all of this? She's there. She is in the other room no i mean is she a willing participant in this process or is she like hey knock yourself out trying to get rid of this debt i'm gonna go be over here buying stuff yes she's actually volunteered to get a second job as well but i i she did that before with her ex-husband who had no ambition at all. So I don't really want her to have to do that again. Well, why? You're projecting something.

If she's willing to get a second job, the answer is thanks, babe. That's awesome. What are you, the knight in shining armor for the last deadbeat? The second job was not what- You guys got to work together on this. Yeah, her last marriage was not crushed because of her second job. it was crushed because of a lot of other reasons and a lack of unity and what this shows me is that you are actually creating unity because both of you have skin in the game and you're walking through this together can we dig in the numbers george please all right

um i'm going to facilitate i love this because you're you're the you're the money guru all right rob i want you to to just walk george a couple of the, let's just do the lowest, the smallest two debts in the debt snowball, and tell us what the minimum monthly payment is on those. Walk us through those. The smallest two are, I think, my Apple card is like 500 bucks, and I think there's a Samsung card that's like 1, like 1500 bucks both of those are at zero percent right so what's your minimum payments on those uh 58 and 133 all right so now now let's

go the next level up what's what's uh the small the thirds let's go up this let's go you know what i'm trying to say i'm struggling it's It's a Friday, folks. What are the next two? The next two debts? Yeah, I mean, we got like $2,200, and then it starts to jump. From the $2,200, it goes up to about $6,000. Okay, so what are the minimum payments on the $2,200 and the $6,000? $2,200 is, well, that's another Apple card. So the way they do that is installments on your phones. I don't care. I don't care.

I just want to know what the monthly. $400 a month you're paying towards that. These are for iPhones? For that one is, yeah. I think we can sell some iPhones. We can rock some iPhone 8s, right? Theoretically, yes. I think there's only two payments left on it.

You said it's $2,200. Yeah, it's more than two payments. That's a whole lot of money to me. So, Rob, what I'm trying to do, what I'm trying to get George in here, George, I'm trying to show him there's more money. That's $600 in payments on the first three debts. I knew you would pick up the ball if I passed it to you. Do you see the real momentum here, Rob?

We're talking about real savings quicker than trying to pay off the other cards. I mean, the high interest stuff. You need some momentum in this deal. I understand that. I wasn't really saying I'm going to switch to paying off the highest one because I know that doesn't work.

I know what you said. You said you wanted to do the HELOC for it. We get it, but we're just trying to help you get some momentum. The momentum is the issue. Dave has proven this for decades through people who followed it. It is about momentum. That's what we're trying to help you understand. George? Yeah, behavior is what got us here, not interest rates, not math. And so I know the interest rate is the easiest thing to get mad at instead of looking in the mirror and being mad at Rob. And man, you are dealt some cards that nobody should be dealt with. But here we are on the other side. And the only way out is through it. And that's the debt snowball method. So hang on the line. I'm going to send you guys my book,

Breaking Free from Broke, along with Financial Peace University. You and your wife sit down, watch all the lessons, listen to the audio book, read the book, get fired up, get five jobs. And if your marriage isn't better at the end of this thing, then we've done our jobs wrong. Because I'm telling you, that's the kind of unity that the debt snowball creates. Yeah. All right. Quick break. I'm going to try on George's bomber jacket, see if it fits, and we'll be back. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy.

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you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Salt Lake City, Utah, and Sean is joining us there.

Sean, how can we help today? Hey, guys. I'm currently an ultrasound tech, kind of functioning as a traveler, so I make pretty good money currently. I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to go back to physician's assistant school for two years and incur like $125K in debt to make a little more money long term. Okay, let's break that down. You set it up wonderfully.

I need to get some facts. How much are you making now? So I'll probably make like 3 000 a week so it's probably like 140 years because i take some time off so maybe a little less but somewhere in that ballpark so i make good money now but if i was to go back and be a regular person and not do the travel thing i'd probably make 80 to 90 and i'm kind of tired of doing the travel thing so i'd like to sit down in a spot for a while. No, I got it. And keep traveling forever. All right, so if you, let's just fast forward, and let's say you got the $125,000 in cash to cash flow,

becoming a physician's assistant, if I heard you correct. What would be your range of income as a physician's assistant? Probably starting at like $110,000 and then have to go from there. Be my best guess. All right. And okay, so how long, if you weren't allowed to take out a loan, how long would it take you to come up with the money off your current income? Because you're making pretty good money. I wrote you down as between $125,000 and $140,000 based on how kind of loose you were with that. So I think that's a good range. How long would it take you to cash flow your way, to come up with the cash, to do it without the loan?

Maybe, I have no idea. I'd have to sit down and do the crunch numbers probably at least a year, I'd imagine at least like probably two years. Yeah, I was going to say, there's no way, you're only making $100,000. I don't own. Go ahead, Sean. Yeah, I don't own a home either, so that's the other thing. I would like to own a home. Okay, but we've got to solve the first problem.

For sure. So, Sean, I want you to take a deep breath and slow down a little bit. I'm going to actually do all the heavy lifting for you and walk you through this, all right? So let me guide you through this. So the first problem we've got to solve is you want to get off the road of being a travel nurse. That's just, it's just a quality of life issue. I think that makes a lot of sense. That's the first problem to solve, not the house, correct? True. The house is part of it, but yes, for sure. I know, but I'm helping you by understanding what your priorities are.

So that's your priority. So the move for you is, well, I'm going to take a pretty significant hit if I don't have the physician's assistant situation. If I jump back just to traditional nursing, I'm going to take a pretty big hit, correct? Correct. Okay. So we start looking at, okay, when we coach people, we want to help you come up with the decision. Let's not tell you what to do. And so we look at, okay, I'm single. I want to save for a house and I want to get off

the road, but I'm making really good money now. I do take a little bit of downtime. So which is the most important goal? Is it to be a physician's assistant and also make around 110? Is that a huge priority for you career-wise? Not the biggest. I mean, I really like my job currently. It's just more of, I guess, long-term, like what I can do when I'm 60, 65. Yeah. How old are you now? A job that I just turned 40. All right. You're a young guy. Okay. So going through these priorities, Sean, I'm going to take the greatest opportunity that I have to stack cash that would then allow me to set myself up when I am 60. So you don't want to be traveling nurse when you're 60, but you got 20 years to get that physician's assistant degree. So putting yourself in debt right now to me seems completely nonsensical.

You know we're not for debt. You knew that when you called us. But forget our philosophical beliefs about this. I don't care who you are. In your position, I just think you've got to be a little bit patient. And just why put yourself in $125,000 worth of debt when, in your case, you don't actually have to? You like your job.

You're making really good money. George, I want to bring you in here because even if you weren't anti-debt like we are, it still doesn't make any sense given where he is in his life. And I've been crunching the numbers, Sean, and based on just some quick research, entry-level PA in your area probably make a $90,000, which is what you said you'd make just getting off the road. Now, long-term, you could make closer to $110,000, $130,000, but this is not a significant jump to go $125,000 into debt or to even cash flow. Well, he's actually going to go backwards from where he is now.

Exactly. So I would, to Ken's point, be very patient about this and just stack up cash and live like you're a broke college student right now. Because if you can put away, you know, 40 grand a year, in two years, this thing's cash flowed. And then two years from that, you're a PA. And so you've got time. That's right. Sean, let's play this out. You do what George just said. You're only two years of patience there. And then now you're stacking cash for the house. That's true. And I also saw in-state cost.

For example, University of Utah, in-state cost should be closer to like 82 grand for this program. So where was the 125? Was that a specific university you were wanting to go to? That's a specific university just because my degrees are old and there's not very many places I'll accept my credits since they're so old. Have you checked all around? Like, have you went to the most affordable options and went, will you take my credits? Can I get

into this program? I feel like there's some more homework to be done. Yeah, I've checked quite extensively and I have two bachelor degrees previously. They're just, my credits are so old. So if I applied to like, say Salt salt lake i'd have to take numerous classes over again like chemistry ochem and you couldn't clap out of it etc i just want to say if we can save 40 grand just by doing some homework and research i'd rather do that than just say yes to the first one that takes me and use student loan debt to do it correct no i totally with'm totally with you. My options are limited to go back to school based upon my educational path and how distant it is as far as the medical field goes. Yeah.

Well, I mean, we've told you what we would do. We just want to save you that burden of debt. You just don't need it. Nobody needs debt. You really don't need it in this situation. Let's go to Scott in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Scott, how can we help? Hello, Scott.

Hi, how's it going? Good. How can we help? So I'm 23. I have been dating my significant other for about six years now, and marriage is definitely on the near horizon. Gee whiz, I would hope so. Six years.

I'm kind of struggling. I'm exhausted already. I'm exhausted. Well, everybody tells us we're young. How old are you? You're 23? So the high school sweetheart situation, and you're like, all right, we kind of have our bearings.

We're out of school at this point? Working full time? Yes, we're of have our bearings. We're out of school at this point, working full-time? Yes, we're both working full-time. Okay. And you want to propose in the next six to 12 months? Yes, I was thinking within the next year. Okay. What's your question, Scott?

So I'm just wondering, so we've also been thinking of a house as well, and I just feel like it makes me nervous, you know, all of these expenses coming up so soon, you know, you have the engagement ring, the wedding, the honeymoon, and then obviously a house. And, you know, everybody seems to be putting 15 to 20% down. Who's everybody? Everybody's broke. You know, that would be... I don't know who everybody... I mean, it's rare.

A lot of people I work with. I've never met a 23-year-old who's about to get married who's like, yeah, we're ready to buy a house, buy a ring, get the wedding, and do it all in cash. Here's what most people do. They go, we'll finance it and we'll start our marriage off in crippling debt and hope for the best. That's normal. And so I want you to be weird, Scott. And that means, hey, maybe a newlywed couple can just rent for a year or two or three,

get their bearings underneath them and get a good down payment under their feet before going, well, we're married, got to have a nice house, got to have a nice car. So I would focus on one thing at a time. Next up is the ring. We're going to do a reasonable ring, one month salary max. I don't care how wonderful she is. It's not about the ring she deserves. It's about the one you can afford. Next, let's make sure we can cash flow this wedding between family and ourselves.

Next, let's talk about the honeymoon. All right, I'm going to pay for a reasonable honeymoon. Next, we can talk about emergency funds and down payments and all that good stuff. So hang on the line. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University. This is the roadmap for any newlywed couple. If you guys get aligned on this, it will bode very well for the success of your future marriage. That's good, George. One thing at a time. That's it. Very simple. So we're such in a rush at 23. Yeah. Wow. Got a lot of life ahead of him. As can Scott. He's much older.

So much older. And by the way, the young thing, I got married at 23. This is, you know, too young. All right. We got to take a break. During the break,

I'm going to share with George what I've learned about bread. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, George Campbell here with a not-so-fun fact. Every American social security number, including our children's, has been hacked and is now on the dark web. And this is not a scare tactic. This isn't fear-mongering. It's a reality that could turn into a nightmare for a lot of people.

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Not to mention, it's the best value on the market. They've been protecting my family for over a decade, and I trust them to protect yours too. So get enrolled today by calling 800-356-4282 or just visit Zander.com. That's Z-A-N-D-E-R.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad that you are with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Many of you listen to us, watch us because you want to invest and invest wisely. And the reality is that investing can be very intimidating, certainly confusing. And you never want to take investing advice on a TikTok.

You need to dive deep. And so to that end, our Investing Essentials virtual event is going to teach you everything you need to know. It's coming up March 4 and 5. Tickets start at $199. This is a two-night event, as you can tell by the dates. Dave Ramsey and George Campbell are collaborating on this event. You're going to get Dave's personal playbook on real estate investing. And George is going to do a deep dive as well. George, you want to give a little snippet? I just did a rehearsal this morning. And man, the stuff we have planned for how to choose exact mutual funds in your plan so that you can invest with confidence.

That's great. We're getting a lot of questions about this. And we're going to just lay it all out in a way where you leave so much more confident about your whole investing plan. We're going to take it all and just make it simple. There's so much noise out there. And we're just going to go, here's the 17 things you need to know and nothing else. And so it's going to be a really good time. Looking forward to it. Tickets $199. That's a good deal for five hours worth of coaching from Dave Ramsey himself. And we're taking your questions as well.

So you can email those in if you get your tickets, ramsaysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Don't miss it. We're not doing this again this year. That's right. You were talking about all the complexity out there around investing. That's why I was telling you during the break about what I've learned about sourdough bread. I saw you took a sourdough class.

I feel like now you're an expert. Well, there's just a lot out there. What do you do with the starter? How much do you feed it? There's a lot of things out there. Well, it's much like investing. That's, I signed up for the sourdough class. But you got to do it the right way and you got to have patience. You can't rush the process. So there you go. I just want to tie all that in together there, George. See, I signed up.

Beautifully done. You all need to sign up for this investing class if you don't understand it because it's a class. Let's just be honest. Two-night event, going to be great. And maybe George will tell you a little bit about what I've told him about sourdough bread. The game of telephone, that's too risky. We'll see. Let's go to Minneapolis now where Jacob is waiting for us. Jacob, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call, first of all. Yeah. I was curious as to where I should start with my money. I recently had a change in careers or chose to change careers, and I feel a little bit lost on where to go from here. Okay, so you changed from what, making what, to what, making what? So I used to be a CNC machinist making about $25 an hour. I have changed careers to, I'm going to school to become a nurse.

Currently, I am a CNA making about $18.50 an hour. Okay. How soon will you be out of the schooling and then making nurse money, and what will that be? It should be December of 2026. Okay. And what will you be making? I believe starting in my area is anywhere from $38 to $40 an hour. Okay. So a temporary step back in order to step forward. Correct. Okay, great. I got no problem with that. It's very strategic. Okay, so be more specific. When you said to George and I, I don't know where to start. What specifically? How can we help? Where's the area that you're not sure what to do next?

So when I decided to change jobs, I also decided to change cities, change where I live. I live in a little bit more of an expensive area, and I am completely out of debt. Um, I have about 5,000, $5,000 in my, uh, savings for an emergency fund. Um, and I'm trying to decide, you know, at the moment I have a couple hundred dollars after the paycheck hits of room to work with. And I'm not sure if I should be investing, you know, at least a little bit. I am 25 years old. And I'm not sure if I should be investing that money or if I should just kind of keep stashing that away, especially since I'm in such a volatile area in my life, being in school. Yeah. Great question. Are you familiar with our Baby Steps? I am, yes. Okay, okay. So you're in Baby Step 3. $5,000 feels too tight for me for a fully funded emergency fund, so I would take those few extra $100 and start stashing it on top of your $5,000

until you have closer to $10,000 or $15,000, depending on what your monthly expenses are. The bigger question is, sorry if I missed this, is your entire schooling cash flowed from here on out? Yes, I actually qualify for it to be paid for. Amazing. Okay, that's great news. I don't have to pay anything. So there's no fear we're going to have to come out of pocket for school? Yeah, except for like books and stuff.

But I've got all the books for the rest of my time in school. I bought all those books that I cash flowed that down and over with. Then you're in a really good spot. You're cash flowing school. You're going to be going from making, you're going to double your income by December of 2026, which gives me a great joy. And then you'll be moving on to investing once you have that fully funded emergency fund, which will likely happen before you finish school.

And so I think we want to get you investing, but you got to get that fully funded emergency fund because right now it could take one or two emergencies to wipe out that entire savings account. Sure. Do you know your monthly expenses off the top of your head? There, it kind of depends. It kind of seems like things have been popping up just about every single month lately, but, uh, anywhere from on a normal month, I'd say anywhere from 1000 to 1200 a month. Um, I'm very, what is your rent with my, uh, my, my rent is actually the majority of it. Rent is about 900 a month. Um, but I don't pay for electricity water uh internet none of that stuff that stuff is paid for for me so why who uh my parents okay how old are you 25 and you're married no no i am in a relationship but i'm not not married. Okay, you said the girlfriend. Okay, I wasn't sure.

I'm sorry. Okay, wow. 25 years old and mom and dad are paying all your utilities. That's a sweet deal. That's a good deal if you can get it. I don't think I like it very much, but I think it's time to cut the umbilical cord. Is the agreement that this is until you get through school or longer than that? Yeah, Yeah. Once I graduate and I'm making the money,

I plan on moving out and kind of doing my own thing. Okay. Oh, you're living with them. I missed that too. Okay. All right. That makes a lot more sense. All right.

There you go. Well, thanks for the call. I mean, you're on the way, and I love that you're thinking about the margin, and George gave you great advice. It's simple. Just stack it up, because as soon as you're thinking about the margin, and George gave you great advice. Keep it simple. Just stack it up because as soon as you graduate, there's probably going to be more expenses coming your way

as you start out on your own, your own adult life. Yeah. All right, let's go to John in Pittsburgh. John, how can we help? Hey. Hi, John. We've got about two and a half minutes. Hit me with your question.

My question is, I'm in baby step two and I just got an opportunity to move to another city. I was wondering if you guys think that's a horrible idea or... Tell me about the opportunity. Is it for work? It is for work. I'm currently located in Pennsylvania and the opportunity would be moving me to Dallas-Fort Worth area. Is it more money? It would be more money. How much? Almost another $30,000 on top of what I'm making now. Okay, I like that.

Is it in the same industry? Same industry. It would be a higher position, too. So it would be doing what I'm doing now, but sort of managing people and overseeing an operation for a client. Great. Do you think that sets you up to continue to climb a ladder that you've sort of envisioned? You can see continued growth as a result of this move? Yes. It's a no-brainer. What would be the reason for not saying yes and calling us to get our take? So I'm married. We have a son. They're attached. The son is seven. Okay. My wife is 32. What's the attachment? The school attachment. My wife just started a new job that she loves.

We also have three horses here on our property that no one wants to get rid of them. Of course. Who could get rid of a horse? I can't imagine. If the horses weren't the issue or your wife getting a brand new job, would you be doing this automatically? Quick answer. Without a doubt. Can you negotiate a relocation bonus to cover those expenses? I don't think that's the issue, George. I think it's... He's got bigger problems to fry. To cover those expenses? I don't think that's the issue, George. I think it's Kendall's wife. I think the biggest issue is this.

Can his wife find a job doing something similar that she enjoys? I think that's the issue. The horses, boy, oh, boy. I'm not touching that one with a 10-foot pole. I will. Sell the horses. Sell the horses. Is that like a—oh, I forgot.

You've got a lot of controversy around that. It's called PTSD, Ken. I got it. Well, we'll talk about the equine population during the break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can

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This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

888-825-5225 is the number. All right, folks, for those of you who are aware of the baby steps, how you doing? How you tracking along? If you want to take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan, we've got it for you. All you've got to do is go to the show notes, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? and complete the quiz. And there's some real value in this, George. Tell them why. Well, a lot of people just, you got to know where you are to know where you're going. And it'll give you a really clear next step to take in the Ramsey plan with tools, resources,

articles, you name it. And so this is a great way to just jump in, send this link to a friend who isn't aware of us. And I got to say, Ken, I really appreciated the Joey Tribbiani, how you doing? Yeah. At the very beginning. You see what I did? Yeah, I really sold it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Friends, one of the greatest shows of all time. So there you go. How you doing on the baby steps? Go find out. Click the link in the show notes. How you doing? Do they have a how you doing in Boston? Yeah, it's a little more aggressive and probably has more expletives, but you know.

Give me a PG version of how you doing Bostonian. What's up, my guy? Okay. Something like that. Okay, I like that. What's up, guy? I like that. I like that.

That's my Ben Affleck. That's fantastic. You did well, by the way. By the way, it goes with the bomber jacket. Thank you. I think the accent works. Very tough. Yeah.

Let's go to Lynn in Madison, Wisconsin. Lynn, how can we help? Hi, guys. I do need your help. jacket thank you i think the accent very tough yeah let's go to lynn in madison wisconsin lynn how can we help hi guys i do need your help well good news we have got help to give i mean i can't think of two guys that are more helpful than us so you're in good well yeah i have uh um i'm hoping to get a dispute settled oh i love dispute oh it's between you and your husband it is all right let me ask this before we get going is he by chance in the room with you he's not okay he's not i wish he were i do too because i am now starting this new trend here george we've done this one or two times we get both of them on the phone yeah that's more fun it is okay we'll hear one side all right lynn

let's go let's hear your side and his side okay all right well the question is i want to know if i'm a ramsey solutions hypocrite oh i'm fighting words i like how you lead off here we'll see if you're a pharisee go ahead all right all right well some quick background all background. This is a second marriage for both of us. We were just married this past December. I'm age 58. She's age 54. We have a total of four adult children, two on each side. And I think a key thing for me was I was a single mom for 17 years. So my kids were two and three when I was divorced and I paid maintenance and I paid child support. I carried the healthcare and I paid for all the incidental for my kids. Um, I found Ramsey solutions after a layoff, um, that scared me to death. So the

stress left me, you know, in not a great place. And I dug into the Ramsey plan. I bought in. I listened. I did Financial Peace University. And I started with a net worth of $170,000. Okay. My life insurance was more than my net worth. So coming into the marriage, I was baby step seven with a net worth of 1.9 million. Hey, way to go, Lynn.

It was a lot of, well, it was a lot of small vacations at the local park. You're a rock star. Don't mess with mama bear, Lynn. Listen, let's just call that out. That's hard work. Good for you. Thank you. It was hard work, but it was worth it because now here I am. So baby step seven. And now my husband, he came to the marriage with a net worth of $150,000. And he was one of those guys who never found that he didn't like. He had car loans. He had a boat loan. He had credit cards.

He kind of had everything. And obviously, since we're married, we financially got into the same place. So I introduced him to Ramsey Solutions, gave him Financial Peace University. We went through that. And he's come aboard. So we've eliminated the credit card debt, the car loan, got rid of everything. I wanted, going into the marriage, I wanted a prenup. And this is where the dispute came. And I wanted the prenup to state that if we divorced, I wanted to the 625,000 that I was putting into paying off our residents

accounted for. Now that was if we divorced. I also asked for a death clause that states that should I die, he gets the house in the entirety and there's no splitting it with my estate or anything like that. It would be his. Um, so it's just a divorce. If there was a divorce, I wanted that accounted for. And then anything above and beyond that would be split equitably. Um, and it's our intent that our retirement account would remain separate. So the principle of our retirement accounts would remain separate.

If we draw anything out to pay for things for us, that's all commingled and everything that all my, all the other cash, everything would be split equally. If we were, if we divorced, I wouldn't be saying like, Oh,

well we paid off the car while we were married. So my cash paid that off or whatever. It was none of that. So what specifically So what specifically is he calling hypocritical? That I wanted a prenup. Just a prenup. But were they fine with certain parts of the, that agree? You just laid out a list. Was he against all of those things? All of those things. He's like, absolutely, This is ridiculous. I can't believe that you're going to have, you're going to be asking for a prenup once we're married, we're married and everything should be equal. I'm like, well, it is equal. I'm just saying if we get divorced because I've been divorced before and I'm now 58, if I split half, which Wisconsin is a 50, 50 state, I don't,

I don't have time to recoup that again. All right. And how long have you been married? Two months. I'm going to ask a stupid question, George, that I think you know the answer to. I may not. Try me. Can you get a prenup post-marriage?

Post-nuptial, you can. Yeah. No, we have the document now. We have it now. Oh, so he didn't want it, but you went ahead and got it drawn up anyway. Yep, we got it drawn up. We got to a place where those were the things we agreed on. I was trying to explain, like, hey, we're sharing all bank accounts.

We're sharing everything. No, no, I get all that. I get all that. So is it signed? It's signed. The prenup was signed before our wedding. But he just resents you for it. So why are you calling us again? So what's the dispute? This is all moot point, right? No, no, I'm still a hypocrite. I'm still a Ramsey hypocrite, and I'm not truly into the Ramsey solutions. Okay, well, just let me free you of all of this. There's no hypocrites here. There's no Ramsey Bible that you've sinned against. Prenups are a very nuanced thing. And

usually what we say is unless there's a massive gap in net worth and yours, it truly is not like a, oh my gosh, you're bringing millions and millions in. You have a family business. There's massive generational wealth here. We're talking about someone who prepared for retirement and someone who's just getting started. And it sounds like he's on the same page. You're on the same plan now. So you're on the edge of like, is this even necessary? But I understand with your backstory that you're just going, hey, I just can't be left out in a lurch, you know, not unable to retire if something were to happen. So I think you both need to go to counseling and deal with the underlying trust and communication issues but

there's no hypocrites here you did nothing wrong quote unquote so let me release you of that that no one's going to quote yeah we don't have like a blanket policy on that no it's just most people don't need one yeah and the guy goes well i'll make 40 grand and she makes 20 i need no dude you don't need a prenup this is we're talking about protecting your stuff from the crazy family around you not from each other yeah and had you called and had you called us before you got it signed, I would have said the same thing that George said, but I would have said I personally would not do one because I feel like a prenup is an acknowledgment that we could finish this thing and end this thing. And I'm not judging anybody that's been divorced. I want everybody to hear. And I'm not judging anybody that's been

divorced. I want everybody to hear this. I'm not judging anybody. Okay. I am blessed to come from, my wife and I both come from families where our parents have been married over 50 years. So we have a heritage that we inherit. We saw it. And when Stacey and I got married, there was no out. And we've been married 27 years. And there have been times it's been very, very hard. There's no out. Now, that's our position. I'm not prescribing that to anybody. I'm not proselytizing today. But I would say that I would have said ahead of time, I want you to go to counseling because you've got some very natural fears, Lynn. And I understand. I'm empathetic to go, if I were in your shoes, I could see where you could get to that point and want to protect

yourself. You've been burned. But so is he. And I think that this should have been counseling on the front end. You should not have forced this. I'm going to say something crazy here. If it were me, I'd tear it up. And then I'd go to counseling. I think you forced the issue on this and I think you got to redo it. That's what I would do. Oh boy, here come the hate mail. This is the Ramsey Show. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard. This is where we help you, America, win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman. He's George Camel. And he may have the best beard in all of YouTube entertainment. Now you're just trying to offend me. But I appreciate that. No, I mean, it's well coiffed. I guess in the YouTube world, they can't grow facial hair. So I'll take that.

Is that right? Yeah. You know I'm making this stuff up. Yeah. The fact that you fact-checked me on that is just a nice little... I appreciate that. And you got a good 5 o'clock shadow happening. I want to throw a little something positive your way.

You know? I mean, it was a compliment. That's the kind of friendship we have, folks. You couldn't receive it. I was just trying to say something nice about you. Thank you. That's very rare. Let me restate it.

Alongside George Campbell, the man with the best bomber jacket collection and all now we're talking content that's the ken coleman i know and love oh so you'll receive that one yeah okay i mean i can't grow a beard i can choose what i receive all right well i have agency you figured out by now we like to have fun while we help you out because uh there's breakthrough on the other side of these calls so let's get get to it. Julie is in Tampa, Florida. Julie, how can we help today? Hi, how's it going? Good.

How are you, Julie? Oh, thank you for taking my call. I prayed, and God put you guys. I'm like, I'm just going to go to the top. I'm a pastor's kid here. Oh, hey, you're talking to a pastor's kid. Yeah, I didn't know. I'm like, do I go to my dad, my brother, mom? No,

I'm just going to go straight to the top about money and call them. So thank you for taking my call. That's brave. I'm glad you made it through. So tell us what's going on, Julie. Lay it on us. All right. I'll be fast. I can feel the weight that's on you right now. I can too. I'm really interested about what's coming our way here. Okay, go, Julie. I just got through a pretty major health crisis that could have killed me. Major surgery. I think we stopped counting it. 17 hospital stays last year. Oh my goodness, Julie. So, and then I had complications and was admitted four more times. The problem is my parents have taken on some of the medical debt, and we had to move in with them while this has been going on. Now we owe them $50,000.

I don't know, about 16 months ago, we decided to do the financial piece, you know, the Abrams program, which I refused to do because you're, you know, the Avery MZ program, which I refused to do because you're running into so much of my debt. I didn't want to do it. I'm like, no, it's dad telling you what to do. But we paid off almost $28,000 already in medical debt. So it works. And we have our $1,000 in our checking account, and we're doing Snowball.

How much is left now? So now all that's left is my mom and dad put $50,000 on like 6% credit cards, and they're coming up to expire and go to 30%. They're afraid they're going to lose their house. Oh, my goodness. Why would they take this on? Why couldn't you just go through the hospital to pay them and be in debt to the hospital where you could actually negotiate? I was thinking, and it was partially dental and cars, a little bit of cars, dental and medical, those three things. And my dad could swoop in and help, big heart, you know, driving me to appointments when my husband's working.

Just a lot of love, but we all agree we made a terrible mistake. We should have never combined it, and now here we are. My husband, we've been married 25 years, and he has never been sick, never go to the doctor. And he works a very, very dangerous job. There's been two deaths out at the plant in the last six months. And he fell with extremely high blood pressure and was put on, what is that, temporary disability for six weeks. So he's struggling with his health and he doesn't, my question to you is, this is where the rift is with my parents. He doesn't know why we can't move out, continue

Dave Ramsey, which we have a track record of doing it and be on our own heel. It's a lot better for him with the rotating graveyard to have a quiet, dark room. Right now we're in a small house. One little noise. Why can't you move out, Julie? My dad's like, if you move out, you're not going to be able to do this. He wants us to do his plan. I want to do Dave's plan.

What's your dad's plan? Okay, I'm going to go back to this. Hold on a second. Before we even get – I don't even care about dad's plan because we're going to get lost in details that don't matter. You called. You wanted our help. I'm going to ask the question again. Why can't you and your husband move out?

My dad wants us to stay until the debt's paid back to him. Okay, I'm going to ask it a third time. I'm going to ask it a third time, and you're going to see where I'm going. Why can't you and your husband move out of your parents' house? We can. We can afford both. Then that's what I'm getting at. Thank you, sir, in the lobby.

He was tracking with me. It took three times, Julie. But listen, this is why you called. I hurt my parents. No, no, listen. There it is. That's the real reason. That's the real reason.

And you have a lot of respect for your dad. You also feel a massive amount of guilt. The heaviness that George felt at the top of the call is guilt. Yeah. Well, I got news for you. Yeah, I deal with that. Well, I got news for you. You've done nothing illegal.

You've done nothing unethical. It just happened to me. yeah yeah but you guys did some nonsensical things with the credit card money stuff was really but here's the deal your dad doesn't get to tell you what to do you guys have been married 25 years how old are you yeah i'm 47 my husband's 51 and he hit my husband's telling my father we have a meeting tomorrow so this call is perfect timing they don't talk about it are you are you holding your husband up in other words if if you had already given him the green light uh would he have already moved you guys out um yeah i think i'm part of the problem maybe because i'm so concerned about my parents and i think my dad's living in

the what if. Will COVID happen? It's not his life. George, I want to bring you in here. I've been. I'm just. Here's the deal. Your dad decided to take on that credit card debt in his own name.

That's on him. And so he cannot guilt you or manipulate you into doing anything. So have a written agreement of how we're going to pay this back. And it's going to have nothing to do with your living arrangements he's holding you in a prison you know what's going to happen miserable you know what's going to happen you're going to end up hurting your husband while trying not to hurt your dad well that's my fear is because my husband he his blood pressure's because of the stress of the job just imagine an oil rig that on land it's so dangerous Julie Julie Julie Julie you're taking on the weight of the world Julie stop god bless you I want to give you a hug I don't want you to

feel me criticizing you but I want you to hear me I can take it no no no no no listen I'm not I'm not criticizing you but I'm trying to be so blunt with you your husband needs you to support him. Period. There is nothing else. I don't want to lose my husband. Then move! He needs a new job. That's going to be a new chapter for you guys.

I wish we could call him right now. He's here right now. You want to say hi to Jake? Jake! Can you hear us? Hey guys, how are you doing? Hey Jake. Julie wants to support you, so you've got to make the man move now. We just talked to her about it. We told her. She's got to follow you. She wants to follow you, but she's also trying not to hurt Dad. So now it's time for you to go, babe, it's going to be okay. I'll support

you dealing with whatever dad's going to throw at you, but we are going to leave and cleave. We got plans tonight. We're going to Home Depot. We're buying some boxes and we're going out. And by the way, we're not asking permission. Are you willing to lead, sir? Yes, sir. Well, and that's been the whole

challenge. No, no, we got to go. I'm so sorry. I got a commercial break. I'm not being rude. Lead! Go get the boxes now! No, no, we got to go. I'm so sorry. I got a commercial break. I'm not being rude. Lead. Go get the boxes now. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down.

AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the

future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Camel and Ken Coleman. And it's Camel and Coleman. That's a law firm you'd hire right there. Yeah, that is, isn't it?

What would we specialize in, you think? Probably personal injury would be on like the park benches, buses, you know, real better call solve. I could see both of us doing commercials together talking about call us, you know, like that whole, it's so smarmy. Yeah, we'd be very smarmy. I think we would. And that's the vibe we put off. That's right. Tyler is in Dallas, Texas. Let's go to Tyler. Tyler, how can we help? Hey, guys. How's it going?

Good. What's going on? So I'm in a position or a predicament, I guess you could call it. I have two job opportunities, one being a former employer that I was laid off with workforce reduction and a new job. Both have benefits and both have a downside to them. And me and my fiance were just kind of stuck in the middle of which one it would be best. And I'm just trying to seek out some advice, maybe an opinion of what you think would be best. Okay, great.

So give us the pros of, we'll call it job number one, and let's go with, that's going back to your previous employer. Did I understand that right? Yes, sir. Okay, so give me the pros of going back there. So the pros for that one are, is going to be the pay. The pay is significantly, it's about $40,000 to $50,000 more a year. What's the total pay? Well, it's hourly, but like I said, it was previous. So I cleared about $100,000, $110,000. Okay.

The two weeks I was there. Okay. And the retirement's also really good. The benefits are about the same for each, but one of them doesn't have a pension, and my former employer does. So that's what you mean when you say the retirement's really good is the pension program? Yes, sir.

Okay. What's the second job? What's the difference in pay? Difference in pay, I'll probably be making close to 70 there, um, 60 to 70. Um, and another thing is the shift difference. Um, so that, that's a big one. We, we have two kids and our third's on the way. Um, and that's kind of where.

Is it the same industry? Uh, it's a little different. Previous job was manufacturing automobiles, and the new job would be repair and maintenance on aircrafts. Okay. And you're torn between this? I mean, this is a massive pay difference. The shift to me, shifts can shift. Sorry for being cheesy.

No, of course. But it's not like you're stuck in that shift forever. But my goodness, you're talking about the difference between $110K and $70K. Yeah, and there's one more thing. Okay. So my previous employer, they won't pay for school or anything like that. They have some certain programs that they'll cover. But this new job, starting day one, they'll pay all tuition for any school I want to do.

Okay, so where do you want to end up? Now, this changes the entire conversation for me. Where do you want to be 10 years, 15, 20 years from now? What are you doing professionally? I want to have my own business. Doing what? So, more than likely construction. And would the degree that the second option would be willing to pay for, would that be an absolute must to get into construction? I see that there's benefits for it.

I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that. So let me put it this way. My policy on any degree has always been and will always be this. Is the degree, I don't care if it's undergrad or grad, is it the only way to do what you want to do or is it the best way to do what you want to do? So answer the question that way. No. Don't freaking do it. It is wasted time, which is our greatest asset as humans is time. And it's wasted money. So, man, I just saved you a lot of time and money. And with three kids, is your wife working outside the home or is she home with the kiddos?

She's at home. She works from home. Okay. I would not take the new job. I'd go back to the previous employer. Yeah, there's not enough pluses on this new one to take it. Which way were you leaning? Well, I was kind of in the middle because, I mean, I've worked.

No, you were not. You know it's impossible to be in the middle. There was a way that you were leaning before you made the call. Which way were you leaning? You couldn't get a hold of us, and you had to make a decision in two minutes, and you're on the phone, and they go, I can't get you in with Ken and George today. And you got to give an answer. Which way were you leaning?

Tell the truth. Probably the money. Yeah, because you got a brain, and you got people who rely on you. And the money in this equation sets you up better to be a business owner than this degree does. Construction business is an expensive business to get into. That's right. You need a lot of cash. A lot of cushion, too.

You need a fat emergency fund. You need no debt. And, George, take it away on the pension thing, too, because we don't want him just relying on that pension. I wanted to bring you into that. Pensions over time have way underperformed the market. And so I know it sounds alluring because it's like, well, it's guaranteed income. But you can do better investing on your own in any company retirement plan. So I would not make the decision just for the pension alone.

That's a fine byproduct if they have it. But I would not make your decision based on that. And then financially, are you guys in a good spot? Do you have any debt? Do you have an emergency fund? So, yeah, we have an emergency fund. We have about two and a half months in that debt. We have just her vehicle left.

We've got everything pretty much. What's left in her vehicle? As far as, say it again? What's left on her vehicle? $30,000. And how much do you have in savings? For our personal savings or

the... All liquid cash you have access to, including the emergency fund. Probably $8,000. Okay. We've got some work to do here. If you're going to follow the Ramsey plan, we've got to knock out this car loan before we're working on that emergency fund. But you also told me you have a third baby on the way?

Yes, sir. So let's pause and stack up cash. But as soon as baby and mommy are home healthy, let's push play and dump that savings into the car if you do decide to keep it. You may decide to sell it, but your income supports having a $30,000 car, but not a $30,000 car loan. That's a lot. So George and I, we've spoken.

You take the better paying job because of the long-term play here. And man, I just want to reiterate this. There's a really handsome guy out in the lobby that was shaking his head when I was giving my little, is it the only way or is it the best way degree thing? I want to just reemphasize that because I know that's new to people in the show. And I have found, because I've coached 10,000 people on this very issue, Ken, should I get a degree? What should I do to grow in my professional development? And the degree is, when it is the only way, it's a no-brainer.

When it's the best way, it's still a no-brainer, but you may need to be patient. But this idea that, well, I can go get a degree, and they pay for it, and now I got this degree, and all of a sudden, you know, this piece of paper, you know, I can see it. It's a degree. People think it's like a Willy Wonka golden ticket.

It's a diploma, yeah, and it does not guarantee success. And I just can't say it enough, George, because this comes back to Borrowed Future. This comes back to some of the podcasts that you've done. I mean, this is what – you talk about traps in your book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on student loans and I quote your very, is it the only way? Is it the best way? Because it's a trap so many kids fall into because they think, well, this is the only path. If I don't go to college, I'm going to be destitute in my little town and never make it anything for myself. And the truth is I see more people who took on crippling student loan debt for a degree they didn't care about, that had no real marketplace value, they had no passion in, and now they're left picking up the pieces, working a job because they have to, to make the payment.

This is the insanity. This is the loop. Let's go to college to get a job to pay off the loans with a job. And it's sold to us as it sucks, but you got to do it. No, getting a student loan or going to get a degree that you can't afford is not like going to the dentist. You got to go to the dentist. You don't have to go to college. And I just think that that's the cultural message here.

And I think it's slowly eroding as we see the crazy compound of student loan debt. That's why people are going to the trades. They're starting small businesses because they're going, I don't want to be like that guy. $150,000 in student loan debt, nothing to show for it. That's crazy. Do you floss regularly, George? Three times a day. Do you?

Yeah, probably too much. I want to learn more about that. Very offensive. My dentist asked, do you floss? Can you not tell? Doing it so much, man. Wow. I'll learn more about your flossing technique

on the break. Thank you. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. This is your show, 888-825-5225. George is going to coach you up on how to save and invest your money, and I'm going to coach you up on how to make more money. So that is the combo today. Time for our Ramsey Show question of the day, brought to you by YRefi. When the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages, it's hard to get ahead.

That's why when YRefi, and that's actually when Y-Refi can help. Refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. Find out more at Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Kyle in Colorado. I'm 30 years old and earn around $200,000 per year. I owe $255,000 on my house and $50,000 on my vehicle. I max out my 401k every year with a current balance of $150,000. I also have a Robinhood account with roughly $15,000 in it and invest $500 there every month. Cash on hand is around $20,000. I'm wondering if it's better to invest in the stock market or pay off my truck and home before considering any other investments outside of my 401k and monthly contributions to Robin Hood.

Well, he's almost there. Yeah, at least he's questioning his decisions. That's a good start to wonder if you're even doing it the right way. So here's the truth, Kyle. You can do what you want. You have an amazing salary. You can out-earn your stupidity for a long time and afford that payment for as long as you want, my friend. But if I'm in your shoes, I'm following the Ramsey plan. I'm going to get rid of that vehicle ASAP. It's not too much

for your income. So if you want to keep it and pay it off aggressively, I would, my guess is your Robinhood account of 15,000 is not retirement. So you could cash that out along with your 20K on hand, and that'll get your loan down to about 15,000. And making 200,000, that thing's done within, what, 90 days or less, your vehicle loan is gone. Now, regarding the house, would I put extra on the house? I would be on 15% of your income. And so if you're talking about 200200,000, that means $30,000 a year going into retirement accounts. That means you could max out a Roth 401k, you could do a backdoor Roth IRA, and that would get you to that $30k. And then you can move on from there to paying off the house with any extra money beyond that, which you should have plenty of when you free up that $50,000

vehicle loan payment. Goodness, that's got to be probably an $800, $900 payment right there, if not more. So that'll free you up to start throwing that on the mortgage and get you on track for the baby steps. Yeah. I love the advice. Couldn't agree more. I mean, he's putting $500 a month in the Robinhood account. So if we just start moving that over as well to the truck, that's going to be gone soon. So he's going to knock the truck out quick. And then you start working on the house. Yeah, he's probably taking home $13,000, $14,000 a month. And so if you just get on a real bare bones budget, you could knock that vehicle out in probably two months if you got serious. I love that. I like this plan. I like it. Thanks for the question. All right,

back to the phones we go. 888-825-5225. Andrew is in Austin, Texas. Andrew, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Sure. What's going on? Yeah. So back when I was going to college, my parents and I took out student loans to pay for them. When taking out the loans, there was no conversation about me having any responsibility for the parent portion of the loans. Now, six years later, my parents are blaming my sisters and I for not having any money in retirement and for filing bankruptcy and saying that after all of that, we're going to have to take over the loans because they shouldn't have

to worry about that this time in their lives. And I told them no, but that caused a bunch of arguments. And I suggested family counseling and that was rejected too. And I guess just want to know, are we in the wrong? Having tried to help them, it seems like they have no willingness to change and letting money come between the family. Now, what they've done is gross, to put that on you. You are not the solution to their financial mess, and they're just in a real pickle and looking at their pile of debts, going, well, if the kids didn't cause all of this harm to us, we would be in a very different place.

The truth is they have been reckless for a long time with their money. They didn't have a conversation about what was going to happen with college and student loans. They decided to take on all of the debt in their name only with this Parent PLUS loan with crazy high interest. And now they want to pin it on you when they're in a bind. I'm not buying it. And I'm guessing the relationship with your parents has not been great for a long time. That is correct. Yes. It's been transactional and very well. We look at what we did for you and this is what you have to do for us. And I'm also guessing there is a lot more debt laying around here than just these parent plus loans. That as far as I know, yes. You know,

they never, they're never open about it. So I wouldn't know for sure, but the bankruptcy wouldn't even. Yeah. Bankrupt bankruptcy does not discharge student loans. Right. So why would they do it if it was only the student loans? Exactly. Do you know anything about their financial picture? I don't know exactly. No, they've never been open about it. This is just so warped, the way you describe this. I just think you need such clear and very high boundaries that are in stone, like concrete boundaries, not flexible plastic fencing boundaries. This is just so weird, and I think there needs to be a real clear, clean boundary established and walk away from this nonsense. Because this isn't just coming at you.

They're coming at your sisters too, you said. So this is so unhealthy and so, and I use the word warped on purpose. You've got to make a clean cut for now and hope for healing, you know, hope for something. But there's nothing you can do anyway. So them putting this guilt trip on you because they're desperate. And I don't want to be too critical, George, of the parents. It is warped.

It's crazy unhealthy. But they are hurting, and they're desperate. And this smells of desperation. That's usually when you go to blame everyone else is when you're backed into a corner like this. And so the best thing you can do is be kind, be firm, be respectful, set the boundary and let them know, hey, listen, I'm not in a position to pay this back. We never had this conversation. There's nothing in writing saying that we were going to be obligated to pay this debt. You guys decided this is how we're going to help and quote pay for school. And therefore it's your responsibility. And if you're in a

position to help if you're going hey we got the money sitting in savings and we want to morally do this that's fine but you have no legal responsibility to pay this back and i wouldn't let them guilt trip you into saying well if mom and dad are going to be homeless unless you you foot the bill i'm not buying that either yeah i agree that's it just feels so manipulative uh let's see if we can get er in. Eric is in Atlanta, Georgia. Eric, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys doing? Good.

What's going on today? Hey, so I have a pretty personal question here. So I would say I'm pretty far well off in terms of financial stability. My question is if I should save for an extra rainy day, and that extra rainy day meaning marriage and future kids most likely, or should I be a little bit more selfish with my spending and just kind of boost my own standards of living? Well, I want to release you from the selfishness.

Let's find option C where it's not save for a fictitious family. I don't know what we're saving for, but or save for me to buy a nice car. What's going on financially with you? Do you have a bunch of money laying around? Well, let's see. My net worth is right around $350,000. Okay. And I already have a house that's already paid off as well. Amazing. And you got an emergency fund? The emergency fund is pretty much whatever is in my high-yield savings. Yeah.

How much is there? $200,000. $200,000? Yeah, that's what I put in my high-yield savings for the maximum ROI on interest. Okay, but I like money to have a goal, and that is way beyond a six-month emergency fund for you. And so what would be your next goal? Are you saying, hey, I don't really have one? I have a paid-for house.

Are you investing 15% or more of your income at this point? Yeah, 15% is already invested into retirement funds each year. Okay, you sound like you are the eternal saver, and so it might be time to upgrade some things in your life reasonably. We're paying cash. We're not going to have this be

a large portion of our world. But if you want to buy a few nice toys, go for it. Yeah, but he's in such a position that I'm not worried about him having money for a future family. Yeah, you're fine. It's a line item in the budget. A family doesn't show up and you go, I need $100,000.

It's just a line item. That's true. For a ring and then for a wedding. You'll have the savings ready to go, my friend. I'd get out there. I'd get out of the house and start meeting some people and maybe find a nice lady. There we go. All right, this is The Ramsey Show.

We'll come up with a dating plan for Eric's life on the break. All right, folks, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside me. You know, money and relationships are two of the most important parts of our life. And a lot of stress. A lot of conflict around those two areas. But you can win in your money and your relationships.

But if you need some help, we've got a new tour. The Money and Relationships Tour. Very creative. I wonder how long the team spent on that. Sadly, they probably came up with 17 cool names and then decided, let's just make it clear. Yeah, the Money and Relationships Tour. It's Dave Ramsey and John Deloney hitting the road for six nights. And they're going to be taking on all topics.

They're going to be taking questions. They're going to be kind of live and unscripted, unfiltered. Raising money, smart kids, how to fight fairly in marriage, finding contentment. The cities are Louisville on April 21, Durham, North Carolina, April 23, Atlanta, Georgia, April 25, Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, Texas on May 7, Kansas City on May 9. You don't want to miss this. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash tour, ramseysolutions.com slash tour. And if you're listening via podcast or you're watching on YouTube, click on the link in the

show notes, which by the way, I should say, the show notes are a treasure trove, I should say. I didn't say it well, but I did say it. A hidden gem. A hidden gem. Anything we talk about, if you didn't catch it and you're on podcast or YouTube, go to the show notes and we've got a link for you. All right. Jordan's up next in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Jordan, how can we help today? Happy Friday, guys. How are you guys doing? Happy Friday, sir. So I'm 26.

I have a house that's paid off. Me and my fiance have minimal to no debt, probably the maximum we have. I have around $1,100. She has around like $1,400 to $1,500 in debt. I started trading options about five years ago. Wasn't successful. Sort of sat down for the past two years, three years, researching, studying markets. You guys are king of investing. So I wanted to get your advice on it. I started about four or five weeks ago with $660 and my account is now sitting at $4,800 and $200. So I don't know if I should continue with the strategy that I'm using of trading options, or do I move to a different strategy?

Well, you've called the right show on the wrong show. You're not going to like what I tell you to do, and you probably won't do it. I would tell you to stop day trading immediately and focus on long-term wealth building through your normal day job income. Do you have a normal day job? Yeah. So that's actually what got me back into trading because I started this current position I'm at. I work 412 a week, so it gives me two to three days to day trade. I'm currently making $42.35 an hour, I believe it is, or $32.40. Okay. So you're making about $85,000 a year if you're doing that 40 hours a week. You said you're doing 48 hours a week, so it's probably a little more than that? Correct, yes.

Okay. And what makes you go, I need more? Clearly, you're enjoying doing this, and you haven't been burned by it yet. Correct. Okay. Let me tell you that. No, I have been burned the first two years. I want to say I've lost close to $4,000 to $5,000 within the first two years. Okay. So here's the

stat, and you fell perfectly into it. 97% of day traders who persisted for more than 300 days lost money. And many people go borrow money to make trades, going into debt to leverage, right? And we've taken some gut-wrenching calls on the Ramsey Show from people who have lost 30 grand, 150 grand, even $300,000 by day trading. And it breaks my heart. And here's the problem. It's easy to feel like you're the exception when you're winning. Correct. And it's easy to go, well, it's always going to be, I'm good at this. It's just gambling at the end of the day.

And if you do your research, it's just researched gambling, which still has a lot of risk. And I'm with Dave Ramsey on this. I just hate losing money. And so the easiest way to avoid that is to not gamble it. And so what I do is I invest into retirement plans. If I want to invest outside of that, I would invest into an index fund and a taxable brokerage account and call it a day. And so I would focus on... Yeah, because I don't... Here's the problem. You're spending hours and hours a week staring at these screens trying to time the market. And instead, the better thing to do is instead of timing the market is just have time in the market through compound growth and a long-term strategy.

This is the tortoise beats the hare. You've heard that? I've heard that. I've also heard the whole gambling, it's short money gains. Don't get into it. You might win now, but you're going to lose it all later. Yeah. And I don't think it's worth the mental yeah and i don't think it's worth the mental calories i don't think it's worth the stress the anxiety the risk our plan is all about peace you've heard it financial peace and so can i tell you how many times i've thought about my investments over the last six months zero i go up markets down all right i'm gonna go get a coffee i just don't care because I'm investing for the longterm. And if you're investing for a shorter term purchase, like real estate,

just park it in an index fund, let it ride. That's what Dave does. And when he finds a good piece of property, he'll cash out enough to buy the property. But I would never encourage anyone to do single stocks or even a single crypto coin and day trading falls squarely in that with even more because now it's a whole career you can make out of it saying I'm a day trader. And so, stocks or even a single crypto coin and day trading falls squarely in that with even more because now it's a whole career you can make out of it saying i'm a day trader and so you know i heard this you're too smart to do this stuff you know i heard all the news this morning got to get your quick take on what's that there is now there is a crypto bar in new york city oh i have heard about this have you heard this yeah and i was thinking of you i heard it i was like i wonder

what george knows about this. So I guess- I'll tell you, it's the worst place to meet a woman because he won't find one in there. Yeah. So if you just want to hang out with other crypto pros. Yeah. Stuart Varney was asking, this was on Fox Business. Stuart Varney was asking his female co-host who was talking about it. He's like, can you pay for your beer with crypto?

And she's like, yeah. And she's like, you wouldn't know how to do it. So I guess Stuart has not jumped on the crypto train but very interesting yeah a crypto bar i've got a dark curiosity she said it's full of crypto enthusiasts oh wow so there you go so my point is next time you're in new york doing media i think you should go do that for tiktok and instagram just do a little drop in just see if anyone starts filming me saying, I saw George at a crypto bar. Yeah. That could be fun. No, thank you. All right. Let's go to Sarah in Denver, Colorado. Sarah, how can we help? Hi, I'm excited to talk to my money heroes. How are you? Wow. You're a money hero. Hold on a

second. Let me put my cape over the chair here. There it is. There it goes. How can we help? So my husband and I are in our 40s and we're doing great for ourselves. We're maxing out 401ks and IRAs and we're paying off the house with double payments. Wow. And we're kind of deciding, trying to decide what to do going forward, you know, once everything's paid off and exploring some options to help our adult kids. So one of the things that we thought about was encouraging them to save even more for themselves and offering them the possibility of maybe, you know, if they put forth like a third of their Roth Mac for a year, would we double that, you know, and give them the other two thirds? And so I guess I just wanted to find out what you guys thought about that. Yeah. So essentially you want to gift your children

money to help set them up for success and wealth down the road. And there's a lot of ways to do that. How old are the children? They are 23 and 24. Wonderful. And they're all working full time, gainfully employed? Well, there's one that's doing a little better than the other. Employment-wise, you know, money-wise, and they're still learning for sure. That's great. Well, I like the idea of sort of a match because that encourages them to actually do the behavior instead of you doing it for them. But there's a lot of ways to do this.

If it's not wealth, it might be, hey, we wanted to gift you some down payment money, and it has to go toward the house. And so there's a lot of ways to do this. If it's not wealth, it might be, hey, we wanted to gift you some down payment money, and it has to go toward the house. And so there's a lot of ways you could do that. I love the idea of just contributing to that. I don't know. If you just wrote them a check for $3,000, would you trust that they'd actually go invest that into an IRA? That's the question.

Yeah, I do think that both of them would go do that if that was the intention. Yes. Okay. I would demand proof as, cause I'm that guy. I'd be like, all right, here's the deal.

I'm going to give this to you. I need proof in one week that you've actually deposited this money or else I rescinded. So it's okay to give with strings attached cause you're, you know, they're going to benefit from it. And here's what you should do. Sit down with an investment calculator,

show them what this money will turn into when they retire to 63. And they're going to go, oh my gosh, mom, you didn't give me $3,000. You just gave me $150,000. That'll get them investing. I love that play. I'm starting to do that with my kids and they're starting to pay attention a little bit. So I love that advice. Uncle George will come over. I'll show him the ropes. We need more Uncle George around the house. All right, folks. Appreciate you being with us. This is The Ramsey Show.

This is The Ramsey Show, where America congregates. They have a conversation about their life so they can win. Win with their money, win in their profession, and win with their relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be driving the boat today, but my co-pilot, boy, is he capable. He's the one, the only. You have the captain's hat on. George Camel. And you look good in a captain's hat.

I like to call you Capable Camel. You've never said that, but I appreciate that. Never. I'm glad you like to do it. I was going to try to fool the American people. You wouldn't allow it. You called me out. He fact-checked me on the spot. I appreciate that. 888-825-52 five is the phone number let's go to honolulu hawaii you've ever been to honolulu never i didn't love it it's a wonderful place waikiki fantastic uh let's go to jay who's hanging out there jay how can we help well um thanks for taking my call

gentlemen um i'm calling because i was recently diagnosed with a very rare and aggressive form of cancer. Oh, no. So sorry. net worth of a little over $2 million, worked very hard for a long time, 57 years old. And basically, I have a conundrum here. A part of me thinks that I should, I love my job. I have a great job that I've worked at for the last 28 years. And the part of me thinks that I should spend the rest of my time and money doing things that I enjoy. And, you know, obviously my life probably – I had planned for many years for retirement and to have a good retirement, and it looks like that may not happen now. So I was just wondering your thoughts on someone in my situation.

What is the priority? Did you say you were 67? 57. Oh, 57. Oh, my goodness. And are they giving you some time? Are they giving you a timeline here? Well, so I went through all the treatments, chemo and major surgery and radiation.

And realistically, they can't give me a time, but they said that the reoccurrence of this type of cancer is very common, and it usually comes back within two years. So there's a chance that I could take care of myself and live for a while, but there's also a chance that my life may not be more than a few more years long. Do you have family? I do not. I have no. But there's also a chance that my life may not be more than a few more years long. Do you have family? I do not.

I have, no. Parents are gone. No siblings. I have some distant cousins. Spouse, kids? Nope. I don't know. No kids. Solo.

So you can do what you want. You could flee the country and have a good time, and it doesn't affect anyone. And you've got enough to retire technically right you could leave work today never work a day in your life again and be totally fine absolutely yes you know george i want you to weigh in i you know i'm thinking for a half second one more half second i'm just trying to put myself in the shoes that's what i'm doing going through this that's what i'm doing and jay one of the things we always try to do within our principles and what we believe, we try to answer things the way, what would we do if we were in your shoes?

And so I needed to pause because this has got some real gravity to it. If I were in your shoes, I would stop working for a season. I'm not going to tell you how long that is. I think that's up for you. But I think I would check out for a bit and go, what's going to happen over the next two years? I mean, you can only go with what the doctor tells you. And I don't want to live my life trying to avoid this bad diagnosis that may come. I want to actually live. Right.

And if I'm you, I probably take some time off work knowing I can get back in it. You got plenty of money. And I would focus on really enjoying your life because I actually believe that the more fulfilled you are, the happier you actually are. And I think that gives you the best chance for healing. I believe the body is an amazing thing. None of us know how much time we have. But if I'm you, I'm probably going to do some things I've never done before. I'm probably creating a bucket list, and I'm going to edit it.

I'm going to give it some time. But I'm going to start. Now, I'm not saying you have to quit work tomorrow. If you really enjoy it and it gives you a great sense of contribution, that's my whole jam. I'm a big believer in that. However, in your shoes, I'm going to go now i'm going to say you have to quit work tomorrow if you really enjoy it and it gives you a great sense of contribution that's my whole jam i'm a big believer in that however in your shoes i'm going to go do some things see some things um you know maybe find you a fabulous lady in honolulu who she'll take a flyer on you you know i have one oh great i have a lady hold on one second i'm gonna check that one off the list because I was like, man, I'm going to find me a lady if I'm you.

Yeah. And I'm glad you got that. And what's her deal? She's very supportive and willing to travel. And, you know, the two things in my life that are most important is my work. I run a nonprofit here that helps people, a big nonprofit. And travel are my two most joyful things. All right, I'm going to change my advice.

If you run this nonprofit, do you have somebody that can keep it going while you're out living? If you took a month off? All right, so I would stay involved with that because it's so missional. So I'm going to change my advice because that's so missional. I think that's important. But go do things. Have some fun. See the sunsets.

Do things you've never done. I'm thinking that tim mcgraw song uh live like you're dying i think is that right i thought the audience is telling me that's the one i mean 4.7 seconds on a bull named fu manchu i think it is i don't know if i got that right like i mean i'm serious like i you know that's the play man and then if two years from now or sooner this ugly thing comes back then then I'm sitting on my deathbed and I'm reminiscing, not regretting. Right. By the way, that's the talk I'm giving on the Ramsey Cruise.

Oh, looking forward to that. I want people to live a life. Like Davis said forever, live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. And I think this idea of getting to the end of your journey, whatever it is, 57, 67, 77, whatever, I want to be able to look back in those final days if it happens that way for me. And I want to go, man, I didn't let this disease take me out in a negative way. I went out on a bull named Fu Manchu or whatever it is.

George. Well, the interesting, you know, the later part, and so later you can live like no one else, it's not promised. And so I think it's wise to look at this. You're in a good spot. You're not doing anything irresponsible. So don't hear all the listeners. Don't hear me say YOLO, George said.

But, you know, you don't need to drain your accounts and act like a lottery winner on a Vegas bender. But you've done really well. Keep your house in order and start making that list. What are the experiences you've been putting off? What are the things that if you were on your deathbed, you'd say, man, I regret not having that conversation. No regrets. Not buying that thing, doing the thing. And a great principle, I heard Donald Miller talk about this, is he writes,

he wrote his own eulogy and he reads it every morning. And it's a great way to center yourself. You can check it out. He's done it on a lot of interviews, talked about this process. Yeah, it's powerful. But it's a beautiful thing to do, similar to Ken's idea of going, what are the things I'd look back on with regret? And it's not always a place you went to or a thing you bought. It might be a conversation. It might be, be i gotta call this person and say i'm sorry or i forgive you right and so i think that's a powerful thing to do and then money can be a tool as a part of exploring those dreams yeah so you have our permission jay to enjoy it but here's the deal you have to send us photos

oh i love that okay of the experience the trip it is, we'd love to keep up with your journey. And, man, we're praying for miracles here. I know a lot of listeners are as well. I hope you call us back years from now and say, hey, I'm still here, baby. Jay, we're wishing and praying 20 more, 30 more years, man. But, you know, I think of Matthew McConaughey. He says it better than anybody else. I had the privilege of interviewing him years ago.

Just keep on living. And, you know, that's good. While you're alive, live for heaven's sakes. And live like no one else while you're at it. And by the way, this is why we say to live like no one else, so that you can live like no one else. Because if I get that diagnosis, baby, we're going on a tour, baby. No debt to worry about here.

It's going to be the fun tour. You know? I love that. Alright, quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Wow, the boss man. The big kahuna.

He did it again. Papa Dave is back with another book. He doesn't do this often, you know? A lot of his contemporaries put out a book every six months. Not Dave. No. He's not trying to impress anyone. No. Look at that picture, too.

But enough people have been clamoring for this. Zoom in on that. He's putting this book out. Where are the camera guys? Look at that. Build a business you love. Look at that. Zoom in on that. Build a business.

Now see, this is what I could say because Dave's not here today. If he were next to me, he'd already be cutting me off. He'd already have interrupted me four times. Stop, Coleman. Not me. Not you. Because look at that. There it is. Dave's new book. Pre-order now and get over $350 in free bonus items. Build a business you love. This is

the playbook. And it's fantastic's uh it's fantastic coming out uh let me see let me look at my notes here that uh kelly gave me uh when does it come out do they have a date i don't think i have a pub date it's just on it's available for pre-order yeah i knew that but i i got out over my such a helpful do i have to do everything around here i think you do uh but it's baby steps for running a business that's what you need to know you can pre-order now for 29.99 and then you get the 350 dollars in free bonus items uh and instant access to the entree leadership hiring playbook uh early access to the ebook and the enhanced audio book pre-order today at ramsay solutions

dot com slash store april 5th 15th 15th Tax day. Wow, we chose quite the day. You and I are both best-selling authors. It matters when pub date. It's kind of like when your baby is due. Can I say, we have blurbs on the back of the book, and Dave has a lot of cool, famous important friends. Let me see. What Dave didn't do was include any famous cool friends.

He included actual small business owners that have followed the framework in this book to cause them to be successful. Yeah. Interestingly enough, that's a strategy I employed on From Paycheck to Purpose. And he stole it from you. He might have. I think he might have. Trademark Ken Coleman. Because I went in there and said, I don't want big shots on this. I want real people who have learned from the book. And I think that's a great idea. I love it. Go check it out. If you are a small business owner, you know one, you want to be one,

this is the playbook. How Dave did it. We should do a fun thing. If you are a small business owner, you know one, you want to be one, this is the playbook. We should do a fun thing. If you caption Dave's book cover and the funniest caption gets a free book. Wow. Okay. I don't know. I'm here. Ken apparently is starting new game shows.

I don't know. I probably just broke the internet on that one. I don't have any authorization for that at all, folks, so we're going to carry on. Let's go to Alberta, Canada, and Lara. I hope I'm saying that right. How can we help? Hey, yeah, that's right.

Oh, good. So me and my husband, we're in our mid-30s. And so my question is, we're in a fairly good spot financially, I think for our age, but I'm not sure. Um, if we get extra cash, um, you know, right now, where, where should we put it to? Like if we get some inheritance money, a tax return, wage increases, which all of those three things we're expecting this year, um, what should we do with it? Well, the simplest answer, and then I'll explain, is filtering it through the baby steps. And so if you have debt, we're going to knock out all the debt first. You get an emergency fund, let's save that up. Then we're investing 15% of our income. And then simultaneously, beyond the 15%, we can throw some money at our kids' college funds if you have them, and then paying off the house early, and then you can do whatever you want in baby step seven. And so where are you guys at?

So right now we have an emergency savings fund. We're good with that. The only debt we have, so no credit card, no payments, no vehicles or anything, only we have is our mortgage, which right now is about $400,000. Okay. And our property and our home is worth a million dollars. Obviously, we don't want to sell.

We're not moving. Hopefully, we're here for many years to come. Sure. But you've got about $600,000 of equity, which is great. Sure, Yeah. We do have, both have pension plans, like through our jobs. We have savings. So in Canada, it's like TFSAs, RSPs. We don't have any other sort of investments, like nothing in the market, or we don't know how to do that. So we've just kind of stayed away. Sure. That's okay. It's okay to be invested in retirement plans only.

And especially in your mid thirties, you guys are doing great. So what is your household income? Um, so I make about one, so like before taxes or after? Sure. Before taxes. Oh, sure. So, um, uh, yearly right now, my husband makes a hundred K and then I make about one Oh, sure. So yearly right now, my husband makes 100K and then I make about 105K. Wonderful. So great income, just a mortgage left. And how much inheritance are we talking this year? Oh, we're not sure. I mean, it's not, it depends who you're talking to, but it could be, you know, anywhere from to $50,000. Okay. So not a life-changing amount. It's not like, oh my gosh, we're paying off the house and retiring early. It's going to put a nice dent in it. Maybe, but is that like, because my question is,

should we just dump it all on the mortgage or should we look into other investments? And we want to buy more real estate, but my question is, should we do that before we pay our house off? And I think you're probably going to say no. No, I would not buy real estate until your house is fully paid for and you can pay cash for the next investment property. Because it is a toy and there is risk and it's going to put you guys in jeopardy to have another mortgage lying around, especially when you already have one. So if I had extra money, are you already investing 15% of your household income? So you guys are putting away 30,000 into these retirement plans? Like 30,000 a year? 30,000 a year. That's 15% of 200. Yeah, no, we're not. Okay. So I would ratchet up your investing to 15% for both of you. And then

any money beyond that, I'd start chucking it at the house and get this thing paid off. Maybe set a goal and say, hey, by the time we're 40 or 45, I want a paid four house. And then aim at it. Put extra on the principle every month or whenever you get bonuses or whatever, and have that be a goal. And would you still recommend living frugally until our house is paid off? No eating out, no having fun, no vacation. Who said anything about no eating out? You guys are doing great. You're out of consumer debt.

And so we just tell people no eating out, no frivolous experiences while you're in baby step one through three. I don't recall anybody asking about should we do beans and rice on their own? You guys are fine. Have you been living on the edge like this for a long time? I mean, no. Okay. No, but we've worked really, really hard to get here. And like, I just, our personalities, like, honestly, it could be easy. You know, if we got a bunch of money, like, it's really easy for us to kind of like, okay, well, let's just do this and have it. Like, yeah, you need to, you need to downshift, which is hard to do, truthfully.

And this is something I tell myself. I was getting ready to say. You are my spirit animal. I was getting ready to say that. You're talking to George. I have to get out of the way because George is like this. I just tried to invite George to a fun social thing. He's coming. But when he found out what he had to spend on it, he started

acting like he was broke. That's a lot of money. It's not a lot of money for you. Thank you. Tell her. Speak to her a little bit more. It's $100. Ken was like, hey, it's $100. And I went, oh, it's a little steep for me.

And Ken gave me that look. I did. I was like, no, you're coming and you're going to bring a little bit more. But here's the deal. In case, you know, we need this. Here's what helps free me. Help you. I have fun money in the camel budget.

Do I ever use this fun money? No. Not as much as I should. And so my fun money is now going toward this impulsive fun hang with Ken and friends. So I would tell you. And it's going to make his week, by the way. It really is. So that's what I would tell you, Laura, that you need to make a budget with your husband

and actually force yourself to spend money and enjoy it. So have a line item for eating out. Have a line item for Laura's fun money and she gets a mani-pedi. I think you guys need to downshift a little bit while still having a goal to pay off the house. But you don't need to live like it's all coming down tomorrow. Okay. Do you see the balance there?

You need to make sure you eat what you're cooking, George. Thank you. I'm telling myself this. Tonight, if I'd say, hey, you need to stay around a little longer i'm gonna bring this very moment up it's it's on video forever on the internet all right gosh sometimes this job really sucks ken you know gotta remember everything i say and do in a court of law is upheld on video because i want you to have fun thank you you're right but i think at the core of that for you? I know. So I think this is fun. I'm going to pick it on you.

I think truthfully at the core, it's a scarcity mindset. Yeah. And it's a very miserly way to live and I'm starting to loosen up. My back is tense. My wallet's tense. Everything's tense. I don't mean to tense you up even more, but we could be in World War III in two weeks and you would think about this Friday night

and then I'll be grateful that I socked away all my nuts for the winter, Ken. No, you won't. You'll go, I should have went with Ken and had more fun. Yeah, that's right. It's all coming down. Might as well enjoy it. Thank you. All right.

I'm going to help George relax a little bit more and try to have him spend more of his money tonight. You and my therapist both. During the break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside riding shotgun.

And do you know why that phrase exists, George? It occurs to me sometimes I need to share. I understand a shotgun is the passenger seat of a vehicle. Do you know why that's called riding shotgun? I have no idea. Oh, really? Can you share? Kelly, our fabulous producer today. Okay, so I'm the old guy, so I'm going to do this real quick.

We roll right on. So for all the young people out there who have no idea what it means, our call screener is rolling her eyes. I'm going to tell you why it's funny. Well, that's Gen Z for you. I know, it's Gen Z. Riding shotgun comes from the old days of the West in America where you had stagecoaches.

So you traveled either by train or by stagecoach. And so because of the Native Americans and the potential attacks and all that kind of stuff, you had somebody who would ride literally next to the driver of the stagecoach who's got the horse reins, and then you had a person riding with a shotgun in his hands and they were security so thus the term riding wow all right hey i gotta tell you uh despite the rolling of the eyes inside there i think people like to know that thing so no in your defense that was an actually an interesting story thank you did you okay all right i got some thumbs up now all i could think of is dying of dysentery on the Oregon Trail.

It feels like it's hearkening back to those days. I love that you just dropped dysentery on a Friday. Folks, it's Friday here on the Real Abzi Show. You're going to learn something, and we hope to entertain you along the way. The studio audience seems to be enjoying it. You're enjoying it. It's a free show, so low expectations. Yeah, what are you going to do?

All right, Madison is patiently waiting, listening to all this nonsense in Chicago. Madison, how can we help you? Hi, my question for you today is, when is it a good idea to be working two full-time jobs and be paying off debt? And to clarify a little bit further, both jobs would know about the other one, so it's not like I'd be... You're talking about two full-time jobs? Two full-time jobs. You said, when is it right? You're just like, when is it okay or when is it right to do that?

It's more so of like, so I work in the social work field. Um, and I currently, and I guess I should just say, I'm just really mad, irritated and done being in debt. So that is my like driving motivation. Anytime I'm kind of like take a breather, I'm like, no, I want to keep going. So I do work part-time currently, in addition to my full-time position. What do you make of each? Full-time job, what are you making? So at my full-time position, I make about $65,000, and my employer does pay for all of my benefits, so I'm very blessed with that. Good. And part-time job? Yep.

Part-time job, I'd probably bring maybe like 20. It's a newer position. Okay. So you're making about 85 between the two jobs. Yeah. How much debt do you have left? Um, so I have about, if about 15 in, uh, some credit cards, um, about 15 in some personal loans, about 15 left on my car. And then, uh, my student loan, which student loans, which is sitting at about 28. Um, I also am in grad school currently. Goodness gracious, you're busy.

I am busy, but I'm very motivated because once I finish grad school, and I'm very well versed in the job market and pay out where I live, and once I'm done, the earning potential is going to go up quite significantly, especially if I, you know, even like with part-time jobs, like the earning, the ability to bring in income is going to go up. So what's your question for us? So reframe. Yes. So my question is, I just was offered a second full-time job, which would bring my income between both jobs to about $120,000 a year. And the second full-time job would be nights, but it's like over the weekend is like the majority of the job. Okay. It doesn't conflict at all with your current full-time job?

No, it would not conflict at all. So what's the question? You just wouldn't sleep? Well, that's what I guess I'm like... Is your question, should you take it? Yes. My question is, should you take it? Yes. Okay. My question is, should I take it? Yes. Okay. I think it's pretty simple.

We don't answer that. I think you do. So I'm going to play the coach role and turn it on you, okay? Yeah. Will you be able to reasonably do both jobs and your graduate school work and not burn out? I'm thinking no. I would burn out. Then don't do it. And the reason is because there's an old phrase that I'm going to give to you, and it sounds old, but I want you to really soak on this. An old pastor that I knew said, don't sacrifice the future on the altar of the immediate. Okay?

And do you know what that means? The idea here is don't take that future that grad school is setting you up for, and it's missional for you, it's purposeful, it's got good professional opportunities attached to it, you've really done your homework. And right now I understand the desire to get out of debt. But because we're in grad school, something has got to give. the immediate, which means I got a great full-time job. It's going to give me a whole lot of money. Yes, it would fast forward everything, but at which point you suffer.

True? True. And then we derail. And you'd have to quit the job anyway if you burn out because you're not going to quit the grad degree. Correct? Correct. So that's my point. Okay.

So you need to find that sweet spot of what is intense without burning out. And I think you found it by doing a full-time job, a part-time job, and doing grad school. That's right. And you're cash flowing grad school, right? Yes, cash in grad school. And, um, I do have like a, a very, very, very part-time job on top of like, I teach some fitness classes during the week. So you got a part-time job and then a very, very, very part-time job has a part-time job. You're doing the most Madison you're doing great. And that might mean it slows down your debt payoff slightly. Are you still looking at less than two years to get out of all this debt? Yes. My goal is I would think right around the two-year

mark or maybe a little bit more because it's... When will your income go up? When do you graduate and when will you get that job? So my income, I should be done in about a year if I keep on the pace I'm going at, but that's why I'm like. And then you'll be making six figures potentially or less? I have the earning potential to make over six figures, yes. Wonderful. What say you, George? I've spoken.

You agree, disagree? I think you're, Madison, keep doing exactly what you're doing. You're already, I can't even believe you made time for the phone call. I'm so impressed. I really felt like I needed some advice because I've been such on the fence about it. You're awesome. You're great. Listen, I would hire Madison right now.

I would, too. Let's go. I'll tell you, you don't need advice from George and I. You know what you need? You need a nap. Yeah, I'd be taking a nap. You need a power nap. You're an absolute rock star.

Nobody's getting in front of Madison and stopping her. It ain't happening. And so I love the question. I just don't want you to make a decision that you know is not the right decision because of the short-term gain in money, because you're going to end up, you will not choose that third job, let's be honest, over the graduate degree. So don't make it now. It's just not worth what it'll do to you. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely.

That advice is extremely helpful. Okay, good. Yeah, once your income goes up, you could still keep the part-time job because you won't have grad school and you could get out of that even faster. So maybe set a stretch goal of, hey, 18 months would be a cool stretch goal, big, hairy, audacious goal, 24 months max. I'm getting out of that even faster. So maybe set a stretch goal of, hey, 18 months would be a cool stretch goal, big, hairy, audacious goal, 24 months max. I'm getting out of this thing. And she does a little fitness, a little stretch.

I like how you did that. And she's going to do a little motivational speech like, hey, we're getting out of debt. Start using that in your speeches to inspire your fellow fitness enthusiasts. I like that. That's another thing you need to do, George. You need a fitness class. Yeah, and I'm a busy dad. I'm here with you instead of being with my daughter.

You told me that you were under threat of the dad bod earlier today. That's true. I fought that battle. I did admit. I have fought that fight. I succumbed to the dad bod. All right. I'm going to try to sign George up for an exercise class.

Zumba? Maybe Zumba or spin on the break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. Our scripture today is Jeremiah 17, 7.

But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in Him. Our quote of the day from James Madison. George, I'm going to put you on the spot again. Oh, boy. Because you're a good sport. Oh, no. What president, what number of president was James Madison? Five.

Fourth. That's pretty good. One off. You were close. I'm going to call that a win. You know why you thought he was the fifth? Why? Because you're thinking of James Monroe.

That is very confusing. Two James M's back to back. he was the fifth? Why? Because you're thinking of James Monroe. That is very confusing. Two James M's back to back? What was America thinking? Yeah. You know, I got to say, I like giving America the little known facts that they should know, but they would be embarrassed to admit. And so therefore, I just helped you out. What about Quincy?

John Quincy Adams was the sixth president. I was born in Quincy, Massachusetts. There you go. Very good. The reason I brought up the fourth president, I know everybody's wondering why did I bring that up. It wasn't random. My meds aren't wearing off. Our quote of the day is from James Madison.

The circulation of confidence is better than the circulation of money. All right. What do you think about that one? I'm going to have to chew on that one. It's got some meat on the bones. It's got some gristle. Our crack staff gave us a quote to think about today. Hey, real quick, I want to give a shout out to a young couple that just joined us in the lobby right as we came into the commercial. We were out saying hi to folks and met this couple. They just walked in the door and they told us that today was their debt-free day.

They paid off their debt today, and I want to give them a shout-out. They're in the lobby. They're filming us now. So this is congrats to Felicity. There they are, and we're filming them. We're putting them on the YouTube channel, the app. Oh, look, we got them right there.

Great, love the team there. Thank you, guys. Felicity and Kyle, they paid off $30,000 in six months. So we want to say yay to them. Super excited. Thanks for celebrating with us. A little golf clap for you. George isn't doing it.

I don't know why. There it is. He joined us. I don't play golf. Why would I do a golf clap? That's a fair point. Let's go to DeeDee in Columbus, Ohio. DeeDee, how can we help?

George, don't feel bad. I thought he was fifth, too. Yes. Oh, okay. I like that, DeeDee. That's good. There's strength in numbers. If enough people say it, it becomes fact. There we go. I like that. So about two o'clock this morning, I donated a quarter million air miles to charity, made my final payment on my credit card, and shut down my account. Wow. How about that? So it's my debt for you, too.

Did you literally donate them to charity? I did. I didn't even know you could do that. I think it's funny that that's what you locked in on. I locked in on it was 2 a.m. in the morning. DeeDee, are you a vampire? What are you doing? I'm a serious owl. Yes, you are.

2 a.m. she did it. That's wild. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm proud of you. That's a big step. You're really weird. How can we help? So, well, suddenly not having a credit card. I am a person who travels solo with some degree of regularity, and credit cards always been my security blanket because there's been times that I've had car problems or been delayed on a trip and needed, you know, another night or two at a hotel and stuff like that. So I've always, you know, just known that, you know, if an emergency comes up, I've got a credit card. I can just pull my card and, you know, I'm safe. Now I don't have a credit card, and I wondered how do you arrange, how do you know to have enough money when you're traveling, and where do you put it, and how do you access it quickly if you have an on-the-road emergency? Great question. Love it.

So I'll tell you this. There is a great debit card out there, hashtag not sponsored, but it avoids all the foreign transaction fees. So it's a great one for traveling abroad if you are talking about traveling internationally. Is that correct? Sometimes, mostly domestic, but occasionally. Well, that's easy. Yeah.

I mean, I've used my debit card. I mean, I've only had a debit card for, what, 12 years now? And I've taken lots of trips. I've rented cars. I've got the flights, the hotels. I've never had an issue using my debit card. You'll just need a few extra funds on there to cover any deposits or holds they put on there. But the other thing you could do is have this, like, travel debit card and just fund what you need for the trip on there. But the other thing you could do is have this like travel debit card and just fund what you need for the trip on that. And that becomes your spending debit card. And you still

have your debit card as sort of a fail safe in case there happened to be fraud or something on the other card. Okay. So how much, how do you know how much you need to have on a travel safety card? On the travel card, as much as you need for the trip. I mean, obviously, you've already booked the flights to hotels, so really it's going to be your spending money. And so you don't need to do $10,000 on there. But it's also not like if something were to happen, DeeDee, you're not... It's not like you don't have access to your bank.

Well, I threw her for a loop on that one. She's gone. Are you with us, DeeDee? Oh, there we go. Hold on. We lost her. She fainted. Yeah, you're like a fainting goat. You have your normal checking account, and then you can have your travel debit card with a different bank and just fund that, transfer some money into there for your spending money for the trip. Okay. And so anything where you're traveling goes on that card for that trip.

So you want to have enough to cover any holds, deposits, all of that. I can't tell you how much exactly because I don't know what your trip costs. That's the whole point. I remember when Chasey and I were in Europe. I know what the trip costs generally. It's just the emergency thing. But again, you have access to your bank still. Yeah, you still have your normal checking account with your debit card.

You don't have to have a credit card to address an emergency is what we're saying. Yeah, okay. If you have an emergency, you have an emergency fund. And rarely, I've never heard of an emergency where it's like, hey, you need $10,000 within the hour or else. It never works like that. You know what I mean? If there was an emergency. A thousand maybe.

Well, what I've done and what I really needed it is I'll wire, I'll do a wire transfer. I'll call the savings company, whatever it is, and say, hey, I need a wire transfer done to my checking. Okay. If it's with a different bank. You see what I'm saying? Okay. And they'll all do a wire transfer. Yeah.

And that'll happen within 24 hours. Yeah, I'm thinking about setting up an HYSA. So is that something that, like, if I was traveling and I need an emergency out of that, that can transfer then? Because this is new to me. Yes, you would. And now it will take about 24 hours or, you know, whatever business day and depending on when you do it. But generally, you're not going to have a, you know, where you're traveling and there's a $5,000 emergency on the road to cover. You know, think about it. If it's a medical bill, they send you the bill.

Now, I will say, DeeDee, you being the late night owl, you don't want to be out after midnight internationally. That's a good call. You know, nothing good happens after midnight. I will tell you what I did last week. Well, now I think America wants to know, DeeDee. Can you legally tell us? Is it family friendly? Is this going to cause me to blush?

I had two all-night drives. Oh, my goodness. You wild, crazy woman, you. Where are you driving all night to? Oh, I was heading home from a visit with my daughter. You are something else. All right, so my point is, no, you need to be back in the hotel room when you're traveling at midnight. You can stay up and read your books and all the things you like to do until 2 a.m.

And when you're traveling, keep your head on a swivel. Use Apple Pay whenever you can to avoid actually putting your own debit card out there. Love that. And so you can do all kinds of things. Put it on a Venmo card. Your daughter can help with all this if you're like, I don't know anything he's saying right now. He's just saying words. Don't you have videos on this? You've got videos on everything.

You know, I need to make one, DeeDee. Thank you for inspiring me. I'm going to make a video on my channel for how to travel with a debit card to debunk all the myths that a credit card is going to save the day. I think that would do very well. Thank you. And if it doesn't, it's Ken's fault. Well, I'll gladly take that. What's your next trip, DeeDee? I don't know. I'd like to stay home for a while because I was traveling. I only had one month at home last year. Wow. Is this for work or all for pleasure?

Pleasure, actually, although some of it felt like work. So you've been retired now for some time? No, not long. Okay. Sounds like a good life. Just traveling 11 months out of the year who sings that song i drove all night do we know that anybody anybody in there do you know the song dd hold on cindy loppers cindy lopper i drove lopper i drove all night yeah all right where

that sounds like my theme song that's why i'm giving it to you you got to stay awake behind the wheel dd i'm getting nervous for you here. Yeah, it can be challenging. Hey, but here's the good news. You paid off all of your debt. You got no credit card anymore. You donated 250,000 miles. What a nice lady you are.

That's at least a one-way trip to Boise. I have no idea what airline miles go for these days. But God bless the charity. I got an idea for you, DeeDee. Hop in the car and drive to Nashville and come see George and I. There we go. We did that a couple of years ago. Well, I don't remember meeting you, so

you weren't there. I met George. Oh, good. Oh, see. That's all that matters. George doesn't remember you. Come on, George. Great show today, George Camel. He's my pal. That was fun. Don't you think otherwise.

This is the Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.