The Ramsey Show - App - You Have to Villainize Your Debt! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, number one best-selling author of the book, I can't get it out. I tried to say Paycheck to Purpose. That's Coleman's book. You've got so many children, Dave. It's aman's book that's that's you got so many

children through the heart it's a stake through the heart so it's something about being broke isn't it breaking free from broke thank you there is i'll try to help you at the paycheck and purpose side but our friend ken coleman is is the expert on that yeah there we go anyway george is also you got so many books around he's the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, one of our big hits on the Ramsey Networks on YouTube and on podcasts. So he's here to help me answer your questions at 888-825-5225. He's here to help. And it's a good thing because apparently, okay.

Anyway, Nate is in Richmond. Hi, Nate. How are you? I'm doing good, man. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, yeah, I'm in a bit of a position i feel kind of stuck right now so i'm 26 years old dave i graduated from a pretty

expensive school in 2020 uh right in the height of covid so and i was actually supposed to get an internship from that from that school that was actually taken away from me because they changed management and cut the program. So it hasn't been the most stable financial runway for me for a while. At the current time that I'm in right now, for the last couple years, I've been really struggling with finding a job with my degree. I was a double major. I worked hard when I was in college. I got a marketing degree job with my degree. I was a double major. I worked hard when I was in college. I got a marketing degree and a management degree. However, I didn't get a whole lot of real practical experience, unfortunately. That's what I was hoping

the internship would provide for me. And most of my, I have like almost $100,000 in student loan debt and I've been trying to pay him back. I just finished baby step one. So I'm trying to do what I can. However, trying to be frugal, as frugal as possible is not really, you know, it's going to be quite some time before I'm able to actually be able to be debt free. And I didn't know what the best solution would be. My expenses, I try to lower as many of them as I can, but at the time, I wish I could save more and pay these off quicker, but I'm just in a position where a lot of my coworkers, which I don't really need the degree that I have to be in the job that I'm in, so a lot of my coworkers are saving $500, $600, or just have that much money to play with.

And then next month, my loans actually increase. My coworker has hair and I don't, but it really doesn't affect me. What your coworker does, who gives a crap? If I compared myself to Dave, I'd be really screwed. Who gives a crap about your coworkers? Nobody. What do you make? I make about just

under 40 000 a year what are you doing so i'm a leasing consultant for a property management company right now okay because i know real estate is like that's definitely one of the things i want to get into but my credit was crap and i had to fix that so why not find an entry-level marketing job making 40 or 45 or entry-level marketing job making $40 or $45 or $50? Or an entry-level marketing job making $50 or $60? Well, I made the most that I ever made was probably a little bit over $45, and that was when I was selling cars. But I did not like that position, really. But why aren't you pursuing marketing jobs?

I have, but a lot of them want experience with like digital marketing and stuff like that. And that's why you go entry level. When I started here at Ramsey, I was entry level. You were an intern. I was an intern. Yeah. And then I got a temp job and that turned into a full-time job. And, you know, I feel like you haven't applied yourself enough to actually find that entry level marketing job. And I don't know why that is over four years it feels like you've just chased whatever would provide money asap and it's been something you don't really enjoy doing yeah i mean that's the truth yeah nothing you've described what follows the career path that you're that you studied for yeah you didn't study to be a car salesman and you didn't

study to lease apartments. That's true. Okay. That's true. So marketing is a faster path to income, and it's what you studied for. Assuming you get into it, enjoy it, and want to pursue that, it's a wonderful degree field. I mean, you know, it should open up. It's a broad enough category. It ought to open up a whole lot of things for you.

But I think what you've discovered, just listening to the language that you're using, is that this thing called success is harder than you thought it was going to be. Yeah. Yeah. harder than you thought it was going to be yeah yeah i mean it's it's it's uh out here in the real world you get bruised and beat and especially when you follow a curriculum for a very long time then you get into the real world and you're like okay what's next i mean it's been tough well you were you were lied to when they told you that getting the degree was going to make it easy yeah it doesn't make it easy it just puts a tool in your belt you just have a big old hammer but buddy you got to get calluses swinging the hammer at the nail and that's the hard part i mean it's it is um you know and so what what i'm going to encourage you to do as the old guy in the

room is to persevere and really lean into this and go, okay, I'm going to lay out a five-year game plan where I'm making $150,000 a year as a world-class marketer five years from now. And that means I'm going to have to enter into a field that's going to take me there. I'm probably going to have to learn some digital skills. If you're going to do marketing in today's world, you have to be able to spell digital. I mean, when I was doing this, when I started this company,

the internet had not been invented, but I'm a good digital marketer now, and I'm 63 years old. I'm a Tyrannosaurus Rex. I have short arms. You know, I mean, come on. And so it's, you know, you've got to be able to adapt and lean into what the trends are. And today that means even, you know what this old guy's learning? I'm learning about things like called AI, you know. And you do too, man.

You're no different. Because I'll get my butt kicked out here in the marketplace if I don't learn the language and the vernacular and the nuance of the new ways of looking at things. I didn't know what a conversion rate was. I didn't know, you know, that the – well, anyway, there's no reason to sit here and teach a digital marketing class. I was enjoying this. Yeah, thank you, George. Well, as a guy who's been – But you know it's true.

I sit in these meetings, and I'm the dumbest guy in the room. Well, even when I did marketing here. But at least as the CEO, I'm at least going to learn enough of it to lead this place, because if we don't lead Ramsey into a digital world, we're screwed. Yeah. You know, we can't operate on analog. So you're the same way, Nate. Your career is digital, man. If you're going to sell nate your your career is digital man if you're

going to sell stuff guess where people buy it freaking internet man and you got to deal with the monsters called google and facebook and all of you know and all of their greed and misbehavior and you got to deal with them and you got to handle it and you got to work your way you know learn about roaz and you got to learn about whole new ways of doing things and pull in other people that and so yeah get out there man don't just kick back and rent apartments and whine about not getting out of debt and I feel like I'm stuck you know roll up your dadgum sleeves and get after it here I'm going to send you a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke Nate I walk through exactly what you just laid out you fell for the trap you fell for the trap. You fell for the lies. What now?

And that book's going to help you do just that. But the key here is margin. You got to spend less and make more. You've done a lot to spend less. It's time to make more. That's the next step. Yeah, you're not making any money and it's killing you. And you're hanging out with people that aren't making any money and feel like they're winning.

That's hilarious. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

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Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today thanks for hanging out with us America we're so glad you're here open phones at 888-825-5225 if you haven't heard the Ramsey bunch that's us we are going on the live like no one else cruise March the 22nd through the 23rd of next year, 2025. The 29th. It's not a one-day cruise. What did I say? 22nd to 23rd is what I heard.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was like, that'd be a real sad. Yeah, we're just going to go in one little circle and come back. A sunset cruise. Yeah, it's a 22nd through the 29th is what I was trying to say. You're right. Thank you, George. Turks and Caicos, you can't get there in one night. Turks and Caicos, you can't get there in one night.

And St. Thomas, you can't get there in one night. Puerto Rico and the Bahamas, other places, well, you can get to the Bahamas in one night. But anyway, they do that one occasionally, and I wouldn't recommend that one. But anyway, this one is Holland America. It's one of the high-end ships, and it's a fairly new ship, and it's 100% Ramsey people going to be on there. Nobody else. It's all Ramsey personalities. We're bringing some of our friends from the entertainment world,

Dina Carter, who had a big hit called Strawberry Wine a while back, big star here in Nashville, and Stephen Curtis Chapman, good friend, and multi-Dove Award and Grammy Award winner is going to be with us entertaining. We will all be doing sessions and events on the ship itself and these are incredible stops uh manit shohan i was with manit last night as a matter of fact at a dinner and uh she's uh from iron chef and uh all the food channel you know her from that she's an incredible restaurateur probably doing might be doing a little cooking lesson on there i will know. I will be at that event. So, uh, going to be some really cool, fun and funny people.

Yeah. A lot of Nashville Sunriders. There's everything. And all the Ramsey personalities all week, including me, all week. Sharon and I will be on the ship the entire week. So we're going to be hanging out with you guys. Don't come unless you're baby step four and beyond. If you're still saving your emergency fund, you don't go on a cruise.

If you're in debt, I'm working on baby step two. You don't go on a cruise, including ours. So don't, this is the live like no one else. So if you live like no one else later, you can live like no one else and give like no one else. So this is for people that want to have that milestone. It's our chance to celebrate with you, celebrate you for being a hero and getting this far. And, you know, we tried to do this back in 2020, and there was a little problem back that year, if you don't remember, that kept people from cruising. And so didn't get to do it.

Everybody got their money back, and now we get to restart. And it's almost sold out. There are still some seats left, some tickets left, but are some suites and rooms and all that. But you better really get over to RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. It's going to be really fun. We're jacked about doing it. We've never done one of these. So, well, actually, I did a tiny little one like 30 years ago.

Oh, wow. As an event. It was called the Money Game Cruise. And 34 people went wow yeah and look at you now look at that so it's gonna be sold out it took it took 25 years to talk me into trying it again and then i got coveted so um now we're doing it again and yeah by god we're doing it so there you go and uh it's gonna be fun it'll be a blast so ramsey solutions.com slash cruise get tech get your rooms while you still can.

Jennifer's in Nashville. Jennifer, how are you? Good, thanks. Thanks for having me on. Hi, guys. So I am looking for advice on how to approach planning a budget like retirement. My husband and I are on very different pages about where we are financially, and I need to be able to communicate to him that we are closer than he thinks.

Okay. What is your nest egg size? Broken up? No, just total. So we have, oh gosh. All your investments that you're going to live off of at retirement. That's the discussion, right? Sure.

We have a step worth about $1.5 million. We have another employer-supported retirement fund of maybe $100,000. We have a million in cash. We have zero debt. Why do you have a million in cash? I don't know. I don't either. Because we don't know what to do with it.

Well, you need to invest it. We don't know what to do with it. You invest it. We do have another account with $100,000 that we're investing on our own. All right. So if you take $2. half million dollars he's afraid you can't live off of that how old are you people we're in our early 50s okay and so the discussion is do we have enough to live on and he's the saver or you're the saver well we're obviously

both savers i mean well you're both done yeah I mean, who's the natural? Who gets a high from saving? Probably me. Okay. But he thinks that he just doesn't think that we are, I mean, you know, I feel like we have enough money to go with. What's your household income? $450. Okay.

Well, two and a half won't create $450. I understand that for sure. What do you actually want to live on? What expenses will you have per year, do you think, in retirement? Just, you know, routine monthly expenses, a couple of vacations a year. Could you live off of, say, $10,000 a month? Do you need $15,000 a month? Easily. Okay.

Easily. Well, now you're more in line with the numbers you gave us. Your house paid off? Oh, yeah. The house has been paid off numbers you gave us. Your house paid off? Oh, yeah. The house has been paid off for a long time. What's it worth? One and a half. Good for you.

Well done. Y'all have done so good. Over $4 million net worth. Okay. So here's some simple. Well, I'll tell you what. We started at age 30 with $150,000 in student loans and no money. Good for you.

So we've worked really hard. Yeah. And you've been making good money, too. That really hard yeah you've been making good money too that helps and and you've been wise with it and so you probably you know you ended up here with a five million dollar plus net worth all right um let's just do some back of napkins simple primitive math nothing complicated okay i have made tens of millions of dollars tied up in mutual funds, okay, in decent growth stock mutual funds. The S&P 500, which is the baseline of what the stock market does,

has averaged for the past 80 years 11.2%. Okay? My personal mutual funds, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out, have done a little over 12. I beat the market a little bit, not much, by picking mutual funds that have a long track record of outperforming the S&P. Okay? So you can use some numbers somewhere around there if you wanted to use them. So if you took the million that's sitting in cash stupidly and you put it in that and your other money was in that so let's say we take two and a

half and it's making 10 11 12 somewhere in there okay okay yep uh round numbers two and a half 10 250 000 20 000 bucks a month uh that's more than enough to live off okay for sure well i mean and but now and you're not touching the principle doing that you're just living off of it but also that what it will purchase is going down because inflation's eating away at the value of it okay so that's not a great long-term plan but i'm just giving you round numbers okay so in other words if you pulled 200,000 off and it was making $250,000 and you're leaving $50,000 in there every year, you're probably covering inflation.

I would hope so. Yeah, I'm just doing back-of-napkin math, all right? If you want to get a little bit more technical, you say, okay, I've got mine invested at 12%. If I pull off 8% of my investments and i'm making 12 that means i'm raising my principal balance by four every year right right that would be what inflation is average 4.2 percent for the past 78 years okay okay so if you if you just pull off if you make 12 and pull off eight this is not exact but it just gives a gives you a comfort level that we can make it on 250 000 a year this thing

this money this money's making 250 300 000 a year we're gonna pull off 150 or 180 or 180 is 15 000 a month you know and that doesn't count everything else and that's anywhere from like a six to eight percent and that's all right and that that math is perpetual motion it does not ever destroy because we've never dipped into the principle the goose just keeps laying the egg yeah the goose keeps laying the eggs and that's doing nothing for us yeah you just walk that out now what you need to do though is you need to sit down with a smart investor pro uh go online at ramsey solutions and find a smart investor pro in your area that has the heart of a teacher and walk you through these basic things and get that million dollars invested and make sure that one and a half that's in the

returnments in good mutual funds doing that kind of returns and if it is y'all are just fine you're gonna be fine and you've done a great job. You're master savers. You know, you've become from 150,000 in debt at 30 years old to now in your 50s, 25 years later, you're worth $5 million. And you should be. Way to go. Congratulations. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budgets at chministries.org slash budgets. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. It is a free call at 888-825-5225 in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Mike and Nicole are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? We're doing great, Dave. Thanks for having us.

We're honored to have you. Where do you live? Columbus, Ohio. Go Bucks. I love it. Love it. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you paid off?

$107,000. Cool. How long did that take? About four years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? I went from 53 to 58 in the first three years and then combined 115 towards the end. Okay, cool. What do y'all do for a living?

I am a installation manager for a HVAC controls company. I'm a part-time music teacher. Love it. Very good. Good for y'all. What kind of debt was the 107? 93 of it was student loan, a little bit of a discover card and a small medical bill ah okay how long y'all been married uh 15 years 15 years okay so after 11 years of marriage what was the i've had it moment what changed everything uh it was about a little bit after christmas uh 2019 we were like let's look at finances. And we pulled up all of our student loan statements and started looking at it. And the numbers just weren't making any sense to us. We started to tally it up and realized we were $33,000 more than when we started. Interest had accrued out of hand.

You were just making minimum payments. And so the interest had ballooned. Yeah, we were on a income-based repayment plan. And I think some of our loans had variable rates and we didn't really know what was going on. So you were peddling backwards. A hundred percent. Throwing money away. So you're like paying a hundred bucks, but the interest is 500. And so it's just compounding every day.

And then we looked at it all and we were just in total shock. Totally. Yeah, I was just ill. I was like, how could this happen? Like how did, really like how did really like how did we let it happen um and I spent that week after Christmas uh just prayerfully considering like what to do about this because uh I knew we had to do something like the financial trajectory wasn't looking good for us so um my friend Amanda actually had the total money makeover on her shelf

and I remember she had read it and she had really loved it. And I was like, I don't know, Amanda read this book. So knowing I was broke, went to the library, got the book off the shelf and read it in a day and came to Mike. And I was like, oh, man, we really we got to consider doing this. And honestly, it's burdens kind of on us to consider the consequences of the implications if we don't do this. So January 2020, we got to it. We decided, let's do it. Let's see what we can do.

And that month, we put an extra $1,000 towards our student loans. And then we went to Ikea and celebrated because the cappuccinos were free. And that was really the first time we were like oh my god we're doing it yeah this is a thousand bucks towards this is working this is insane um okay let's keep going and you know we told our friends what we were doing and man like we were broke but we're real relationally wealthy we had a bunch of people in our corner and rooting for us and cheering for us and we knew we wanted to document um this, I guess is what you would call it, like that this was going to be something really monumental in our lives. So

we actually started an Instagram account, mostly for an artifact to like document our journey, but it ended up being this like really great support system and accountability system. Like if you tell the whole internet you're doing this, you know, you're going to keep at it. And we actually what was so fun and in the instagram journey was that we found this one couple who was also paying off a ton of student loans and they started this hashtag called villainize your debt and so uh they named all of their student loans after disney villains which was like such a creative i love yeah and you know they would like track it jafar you are going down i love it yeah so we did the same thing our favorite show yeah exactly uh our

favorite our favorite show is the office so we named all our student loans after office characters that you just love to hate so great yeah it was a lot of fun. I imagine Toby had to be the biggest one. Oh, totally. Totally, man. Toby was the big one, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so right after COVID hit, I mean, they paused the interest rates

and were like, this is awesome. We can start making, like, real principal payments, and we just really went to town and hammered at it. We went through our budget and just looked at every, every bit of money that was going out. Like how can we shave and cut the fat and really like make everything we can towards these debts and take care of it. And we really went at it hard.

I mean, we cut down streaming services and lowered our phone bills and ate off of like $60 a week for a little bit until I got a little too hungry. But yeah. Wow. Well, I love that you guys, number one, you made it fun and it made it more of an exciting journey. and ate off of like $60 a week for a little bit until I got a little too hungry. Wow. Well, I love that you guys, number one, you made it fun and it made it more of an exciting journey versus this, oh my gosh. And number two, you had built in accountability

because everyone on Instagram now is like, hey, are they actually doing this? Are they paying off some debt this month? Totally. Oh yeah. Yeah. So that was our defense. And I really went to work on offense,

just generating an extra income. My friend Mary managed a local Airbnb and they needed a house cleaner. And she called me up and she's like, hey, do you want this gig? You know, you just work on the weekends for a few hours. It paid really well. And I'm like, 100%. So I actually just took that job and I put in my earbuds and scrubbed some toilets and clean, do laundry and scrub the kitchens

and make money and listen to the Ramsey show and all the debt-free screams to keep motivated. And we did gig apps, like I view it and field agent to bring in money. We flipped furniture, kid items, household items. I had a friend send me this meme that was so great where it's like, while you were debating if the glass was half full

or half empty, I sold it. And I just felt like that was such a good description of what was happening in our house. Should we just talk about it or should we just do something? Totally, totally. Our kids were in on it. I would pull over to the side of a curb. I'd be like, I bet I could flip those chairs, you know, for 40 bucks or whatever. Or oldest would be like, are you selling that for your student loans?

We're like, yeah. You know it, buddy. Oh, yeah. So we actually, are you selling that for your student loans? We're like, yeah, you know what, buddy? Oh yeah. So we actually, we did a ton of market research. Um, and actually this December, one month before we were done,

we did some market research for Bud Light. And so we had like 48 bottles of Bud Light in our house. And I'm like, what are we going to do with all of this? I love that you were like kids. It's for science. Yeah. Okay.

Totally. Yeah. Totally. It's for the cause. We, I was like, well, we need teacher gifts. So we actually put little bows on these Bud Light bottles and gifted them to our kids' teachers. Like there's a story behind this, guys.

Yeah, with a little note explaining what we were up to and how much we were grateful for them and such. Creative, resourceful, what's not to love here? You guys are inspiring. And the kids saw the whole thing totally some teachers get an apple yours gets a bud that's right yep and then uh yeah over the last year i got a new job she encouraged me to find something else which ended up really working out great and uh we just kept living simply and didn't really change anything just had more income coming in and hammered hard at those

student loans and we were really uh able to see those numbers going down fast when the terror hit your belly that day and you went this is not good yeah and your hands are shaking a little bit you're making 53 000 and now fast forward four years later you're making 115 with all this hustle and these moves and a permanent change of the way of thinking about it and you've completely cleared off 107 000 worth of debt y'all are amazing you're heroes thank you yeah so really if i was to ask what your why is, it's got to be your beautiful kids is our reason for doing this. But it really was because I don't want this feeling in my stomach anymore.

Totally. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think a big, a definite big why for us is we really want to be generous givers. It's tough to do when you're indebted like that. So getting done with this is just so exciting because we're able to like, we can give freely to other people who also need help. That was like one of the big goals

when we started this thing. We were really looking forward to that day. And so here we are. We're really excited about that. What's the first fun thing you do now that you're out of debt? Next month, we are going to Banff National Park in Canada. That's a good one.

That one's on the books, and we're ready for it. Yeah. And I've earned every penny of it. Well done. That's a great one. I like it. See, this is what happens, people, when you work on it. Bring the kiddos up.

Let's hear their names and ages right quick. This is Hank. He'll be 11 in August. Nora's 8, and Tommy will be 5 next month. Love it. Love it. Great looking family. 107,000 paid off in four years, making 53 to 115. A bunch of heroes. Look at them right there. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt free Yeah You want to know how you get out of debt?

You put the earbuds in You listen to the Ramsey Show And you clean toilets That's how you get out of debt This is the Ramsey Show I'm Dave Ramsey Your host George Coleman Now that's a name George Camel whatever your name

is is my co-host today Ramsey personality so I'm on a trip we took a little cruise from London to Iceland and while I'm on the cruise ship I get this email and it's like george saying would you watch this video clip because i have uh created more hate than is possible since pony gate i mean that's right after after horse gate or pony gate uh because george told some woman to sell her horse one time and like all the horse people came after him you don't mess with the equestrian yeah they really the equestrian community they get really pissed so george said sell the horse like it was nothing and then now he's now he's pissed off i don't know like the entire internet or something i don't george i think i committed elder abuse somehow over the air george i don't know i just can't i can't leave you in charge of nothing

so here's what happened i can't believe it let's recap i took took, Jade Warshaw and I took a call. Oh, it's Jade's fault now. It's Jade's fault. An 86-year-old woman called in, and she was in a bad situation. She was making about $1,200 from Social Security, but her expenses are $1,500, and she's been using her credit card to cover the gap. So now she's in $30K of credit card debt. She has a paid-for home and a car, an old Buick or something that was worth probably nothing, a few grand. She's asking us for help. What does she do?

So we were trying to lay out some suggestions for her of maybe downsizing in home to pay off the credit card debt. Maybe. She said she was working up until she was 80. And I said, could you do something part time to cover the gap? George told an 86-year-old woman to get a job. When you say it that way george it hits differently no wonder you got hate exactly so i want a dave's take on the clip we're gonna the team edited this down to about you know two minutes of our advice i want to get dave all

right let's let's let's watch your edited version here are you at the point where you can move in with your daughter i could but i'm not too sure about that. You know, personalities. I mean, it's... Well, the problem is, let's say if I snap my fingers and got you out of credit card debt, you're going to be back in $30,000 of credit card debt because you're using the credit cards

to float your life and expenses. Your options are you either reach out to your daughter and you say, hey, you told me that this lifeline is here. And the truth is, I need $200 every month in order to be able to live and not spend any more on this credit card. That $200 will help me make my minimum payments and not go over. And then because the other option is we might have to look at this house, which doesn't really make sense because of the cost of living today. Like there's not really an option. Could you downgrade an in-house? You know, if you sold it for $250, could you go buy a place for $200? I could, but I'm 86 years old. I mean.

I know, but we also didn't set ourselves up for a bright future in retirement. Gotcha. So this is part of it is we got to deal with the ramifications. I was a single mother since I was 19 years old with no child support. And I worked until I was almost 80. Is there something you could do to make a little bit of extra money right now? I think we might need to find a little part-time job to clean up this debt and increase our income if you're able-bodied. It's not fun, but this might be your only option other than selling the house and downgrading to an apartment that you pay cash for, which allows you to clean up the credit card debt, lowering your monthly expenses. Right.

Well, I have leukemia. I've had it for 21 years. I really don't have a high energy level, and I have a dog. And then he told her to sell the dog and sell the horse and sell the house. Actually, Jay did offer that up. Maybe we need to rehome the dog because it was costing her 200 bucks a month for the dog expenses. And so, okay. Let's get Papa Dave's take.

It's a lot of fun to make fun of y'all but um but truthfully here's the situation okay um i mean the poor lady what a mess now did i get the numbers right that she's paying she's 1200 months coming in but she needs 1500 including paying her credit card payments i believe that included her minimum payment on the credit card. I think it did. Okay. I think when I watched the whole clip back, I think I saw that. So basically what she's doing is she's borrowing money on a credit card

to pay the credit card mathematically. Because if she just didn't pay the credit card, she could barely eek by. Correct? Like if she just ignored the credit card. Sounds like it. At least she'd have less of a gap to cover. Okay. Yeah, so you told her to get a job.

She said she was working up until 80. She's 86. She said she was able-bodied with a car and can drive. You activated the entire troll network of Reddit. I think Dave might be working at 86 doing something. It's hilarious. I will be, but I don't have to be but um yeah so here's the thing okay the problem is is that she's stuck and y'all are fishing around trying to figure out and i would have been too trying to figure out how to help her i mean because there's no good answer in her story. There's no, like, magic bullet.

We don't sell magic wands here, people. We have to deal with the math. We have to deal with your reality. And facts are your friends, not feelings. And so I don't know about getting an extra job. That one's kind of funny. Well, that was before she told me about her health problems, to be fair. I don't care.

She's 86. But so, yeah, sell the house is one option. That's a good option. And pay off the credit card debt um two is don't pay the credit cards anymore you're 86 just don't pay them what are they gonna do sue you what are they gonna do take a lien on the house they're gonna sell a house for credit card debt no so you just default on the stupid things is probably what i would do uh and um or sell the house move down in house and pay them off one of the two but yeah you

know i can't live with my daughter i have a dog i can't afford i have this i can't afford i have that i can't afford but i won't do anything about any of those she was really not giving you all you know you're trying to help her and she really wasn't giving you she's not willing to do anything all right no i can't live with my daughter we have personality issues no i can't you know and i don't want to sell my dog i love my dog and i don't want her to sell her dog but also don't want you to not be able to eat so prioritizing your budget when you're in that kind of a situation to say, first thing we do is eat. Food's first. Lights and water second.

House payment or house. Property taxes and insurance. Anything associated with shelters third. Transportation if there is any is fourth. Clothing. You shouldn't need many clothes in this situation. And then you pay other bills. If you're out of money after you eat and pay your

lights and water you just don't pay the other bill pay the creditors until you figure out something to do to pay them and that could be selling the house it could be the kids chip in and start working with a credit card company could be you just let the cards go into the default and um now i'll be the cold one and let everybody pile on me too because that's what happens around here but um if you're 86 and you're a leukemia recovering patient um statistically you know four years would be a long time to live let's and by then they're not going to get around to doing anything if you just quit paying them but cut up the credit cards and stop using them because continuing to use them with a plan to

not pay them and die in debt is uh going to uh would be stealing so you can't you can't do that with integrity but you could just stop paying them they shouldn't have loaned an 86 year old broke person money so that's what they get. You could just default on it. And, you know, she dies with it. When she dies with it, the house will be sold, and the credit cards will get paid before any money is distributed to her kid, who she has personality issues with after being a single mom. Another option, which we forgot to mention on air, is having a housemate,

someone who lives there, maybe a young college student, who gives her $ bucks for rent. That would be great. That could solve some of these problems, at least for her expenses. You thought of that later, though. That was that, yeah. We couldn't get to everything. That's better than the extra job I do.

I agree. I agree. In the moment, you know, I just spitballing. Hey, man, I've done 30,000 hours of talk radio helping people i mean 30 years of doing this more than 30 000 hours i'm sorry tens of hundreds of thousands of hours for 30 years i've done this show five days a week three hours a day so the number of times i gave out advice that some of you didn't like is like every day some of you don't like the advice. So what you're going to find with the Ramsey bunch, George, Jade included, is that we're here trying while you're sitting at home bitching.

So we're trying to help. And you just over there on the internet got an opinion. So good luck with your opinion because we're going to keep trying over here. Do we get it right every time? Exactly? No. But we can laugh about it and go on and chill your butt out and go do something with your life, people. I heard you

in my head saying, you know, my grandma used to say it was a great place to go when you're broke to work. But I wasn't talking about grandma. I heard grandma, broke, work. I put three and three together. That's where it came from. This is so bad. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.