The Ramsey Show - App - You Make Far Too Much Money To Be This Broke! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jennifer is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

Hello. Hey, what's up? Yeah, well, I wanted to ask you a question. My husband and I, we're having issues just saving and staying afloat. And we're really considering doing a cash out refinance on our home. Because it just seems like the only way we'll be able to get out the rut and save and eliminate debt. How much debt do you have? I have between about $80,000.

My husband, it's probably like $300,000, but that includes the house. Okay, how much debt does he have separate from the house? I'll say probably $50,000, $60,000. And what kind of debt is this combined? Is it student loans, credit cards? Yeah, it's just loans, credit cards, my end student loans.

And that's really the gist of it. How much is cars? I'm sorry? How much is cars? We have one car and it's $40,000. Okay. You have one paid for a car? Or, I'm you have one paid for a car or I'm sorry one car with a car note or do you have two cars and you have a paid for a car sitting there as well just one car with a car note okay what's your household income

um well my husband makes between 200k a year um and I make 21 and then he also had we both have disability you make $21,000 and he makes $200,000 yes and you said you both have disability explain that because we both was veterans so we do have a disability income. And how much is that in addition to? It's probably an extra $20,000 onto our income. So it's just like... Can I be honest with you? Mm-hmm. Y'all make far too much money to be this broke.

Yeah. You have $221,000 coming in a year 50 000 coming in yeah 200 yeah two even more that's you make a quarter of a million dollars a year yes i mean you're spending like you're in congress and you have 130 000 of debt here's here's what i'm telling you and i want you to really understand this. If you just lived on half of what you make, which is still more than the average family in America. Almost double the average family. You would be out of debt, and it wouldn't take you borrowing on your mortgage to do it,

or refinancing, or cash outing your mortgage to do it. Borrowing on the mortgage is absolutely the most horrible, ridiculous thing you can do because it will enable you to consider this chaotic, out of control, disorganized, overspending life and you're going to crash this car. Girl, I mean, you guys got to know, you got to get control. You know that, get control you know that don't you yeah yeah so the house uh what's your what's your mortgage payment what are you paying on this house um well it went up to $1,900 it was $1,100 um all right so that's not your problem it's just your living I I already know the answer to this but you're not on a budget, correct?

I mean, I feel like we are. We don't do anything. Yeah, but that's not the same. Okay. $250,000 is going somewhere. Aren't you kind of curious where it went? I am. I am.

Yeah. I think it's kind of like, whoa, this is a mystery. So what does your husband do for a living? He's a truck driver, and that's what I wanted to get into. He's a truck driver, and he'll go to work, and it'll be times where because the fuel prices are so high, everything, he comes out of pocket. He's on the 1099 but he works with the company and um you don't make wait a minute he does not make two hundred thousand dollars a year

yeah he grosses two hundred thousand dollars a year but his net income after expenses he's an owner operator right yes there's the problem he's not netting $200,000. Okay. He's running a business that brings in $200,000, and then he has repairs and fuel and other things out of that. Am I correct? Yes. Okay. So you do not have an income of $200,000.

Your income is the net profit on his business after expenses are paid, which is more like $100,000. That sounds right. Okay. Does that sound right to you? Yeah, that probably sounds better. Yeah. Okay.

So, Jennifer, what do you do? What's your job? Well, I just finished school. I'm an esthetician, and I'm trying to start my business. And, you know, I've been an at-home mom. But now, you know, but I'm also trying to start a business. I want to challenge you. I want to challenge you with your esthetician work. Right now, it sounds like it's more like quarter time to part time based on your earnings.

Am I right? Well, my income comes from disability. So you haven't earned anything from the... You haven't earned anything from this degree yet. Right. I just graduated probably like two Fridays ago. Oh, okay. Well, congratulations.

That's great. Okay. Thank you. Here's what we're going to do. All right. We're going to set you into Financial Peace University. It includes a budgeting gap called EveryDollar. And then the other thing you ought to do is you

ought to contact a ramsey coach in your area you can find them online with us at ramsey solutions and sit down with them because someone needs to help you guys put together a set of books for his business and now for your business so you actually know what profit you have after taxes are paid and after the expenses of the business are paid. And then you will know what it takes to attack this debt. It sounds to me like your $40,000 car probably needs to be sold because I think it's too much car in this situation. And my guess is you probably have a very high interest rate on it. And the reason you only have one car that's super expensive is he's in a

truck all the time. He's over the road and an owner-operator. So you guys need to get your net profits figured out so that you can get organized and get on a budget and begin to attack these debts. And we're going to list them smallest to largest and you're going to be able to do it in that order i thought for a few minutes there you had a 250 000 income and that was super absurd that you couldn't pay off 140 000 worth of debt making that but you don't you have probably a hundred thousand 120 000 income give or take and that's still enough to get you out of debt but it's not it doesn't make you look as uh out of control as i initially thought you were okay

you you know all it means is you're you're right your budget is probably not super got all kind you know you're probably not eating caviar every night or something here it's not that's not what's going on but uh but but you are going to have to tighten up and you are going to have to make a decision and it's probably going to take you are going to have to tighten up, and you are going to have to make a decision. And it's probably going to take you about three years of sacrifice, including selling this car and getting a much more reasonable, cheap car temporarily to get yourself into control. But we'll get you started in Financial Peace University and get you started on the Every Dollar Budget and help you get moving.

This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. When you need repairs for your home, Neighborly helps you find local home service providers like Mr. Rooter Plumbing, Mr. Electric, and more. Don't wait until something goes wrong. Be prepared. Download the Neighborumbing, Mr. Electric, and more. Don't wait until something goes wrong. Be prepared. Download the Neighborly app today. Yeah, today's question comes from Alan in Pennsylvania. He says, hey y'all, I've recently seen companies advertising cashback debit cards. I'm in the process of transitioning out of using a credit card for day-to-day purchases. My question is, how does a cashback debit card work and where

is the money coming from? That's a really good question, Dave. I hear this a lot and a lot of people have popped in saying, Jade, this is a great way that I can build my credit. It's a debit card that will report to the credit card companies or report it on your credit report. But what they're not telling you is you're still borrowing money no no the the cash back credit card is just a like a rewards card well the ones that i'm looking at you're talking about the one now the ones that experience launched one that only works with experience boost and it reports on the credit bureau right okay but this is simply like discover has one percent back discover points or uh if you get airline miles so just this is just it's a cash back rewards

all right and i don't have a problem with that debit card um and where does the money come from it comes from transaction fees merchant fees yeah so we don't accept credit cards on our website because we tell people not to have them and that would be hypocritical for me to make money off of something i tell people not to do okay so we take debit cards on our website when you use your debit card on our website we pay a merchant fee a transaction fee most cases i don't ours is different but because we doesn't do a lot of volume but basically it's around three percent okay so a hundred bucks i pay three percent to the merchant fee to transact the debit card okay they can then take part of that fee and give it back to you to get you to use the debit card more because they make money when you use your debit card.

They make transaction fees not off of you, but off of the merchant that you are buying from. Same thing's true with a credit card, by the way. Yeah. A credit card pays the exact same fees, as a matter of fact. Yeah. Merchant fees are exactly the same. We don't pay less or more because it's a debit card.

We've actually had to argue with a few of these people that they wanted us to they wanted to force us to accept credit cards to get to process our transactions no no no no that won't work can't do business with you but um so a lot of a lot of your uh the the credit card companies don't just make money on the interest on your debt they also make money on the transaction fees absolutely and so when they're giving you airline miles or whatever it's not just because they're screwing you with 18 interest it's also because the merchant transaction fee is doing that and so yeah i don't have a problem with this. Let me tell you what the breakdown on this is, though. The only issue. It's the wrong question.

Okay? Because you should not be asking a question of, I want to modify my spending habits, my method of payment, in order to get 1%. Yeah. Because that means every time you spend a hundred dollars you get a dollar this is not for this is not going to move the needle for you well and somewhere in your brain you're going to think oh if i spend more i'll get more money and it's

going to make you want to spend your way into wealth when you're trading $100 expenditure for a dollar cash back. You just lost $99 on this, okay? So, I mean, this is the way that these companies work, though. It's a feedback loop, a psychological feedback loop, and they're trying to keep you spending and consuming because that's where the transactions are where they make all their money. And so it's not where you make all your money though and when you're asking the question oh boy i could get one percent back how about oh boy i'm not going to spend a hundred bucks through that and now i just made a hundred times more money than even asking this question

a hundred times more money i like it this question. 100 times more money. I like it. By, you know, how you double your money. You fold it over once, put it back in your pocket, right? I mean, that's it. That's quit. So don't let these people suck you into trading 100 for a dollar. A dollar for a penny.

Don't make this transaction and then walk around like, well, I am very sophisticated. I have a cash back. Who gives a crap? Yeah. You're not sophisticated. You're trading 100 for one. The focus is wrong.

Yeah. So it's okay if you want to get cash back. It's not bad. But the fact that you're even worried about it is bad. Absolutely. Since I wrongfully set myself up, I feel like we should talk about the other thing too yeah okay the other thing is there is now a debit card that does report on your credit

bureau yeah and it is only with the experian bank that's the only one and it only works if it only reports if you do Experian boost. Now, what Experian boost is, is a fee that you need to know that no mortgage company will use your boosted rating to qualify you they will use your non-boosted rating and so you use your experian debit card you opened a bank account with experience so that they could make these fees we were just talking about so that you could pay them extra to boost your credit while using their debit card all to build a boosted score that a mortgage company won't take there's other ones too dave really that will yeah there are the ones that

they'll give you they'll send you a card in the mail and they'll say we will take a portion of your paycheck and make it a portion of your own money and make it available to you as credit on this card and so you spend let's say you spend let's say you get paid a thousand dollars they'll take three hundred dollars over and they'll say spend it on this card and so they're but they're fronting the money first that's a prepaid credit and then they'll come in and whatever you spent for the month they'll come in and they'll take it out of your account yeah but that that is actually debt yeah that's what i'm saying yeah yeah that's actually debt that's a prepaid credit card but they call them debit cards yeah they're calling

them that erroneously it is not the technical it can, a debit card does not count on your credit score. That's right. Period. Okay. Unless you run it through Boost. But the, not as of right now anyway. So yeah, prepaid credit cards back in the day had huge fees on them. I suspect that does. I haven't seen that product.

And it was mainly being used by poor people. Yeah. Lower income people. It's like, you know, same people shop at the pawn shop and think they're going to get rich off a lotto. It's the same poor people. And that's why they're poor. And it's one of the reasons they're poor anyway. Yeah.

And Dave Ramsey hates the poor. No, Dave Ramsey works his whole life so that you're not poor. I spend all of my time helping you not be poor. I want you to not do poor people stuff. And that way you're not poor. and poor people stand in line the number one zip codes that buy lotto tickets are poor neighborhoods by far the vast majority of lotto tickets purchased are in poor neighborhoods so i'm not making that up i mean it's an actual data point and it's not a moral judgment it's just going hey how's that working for you you know it's the same neighborhood that has title pond tote the note lot and rent to

own washer and dryer for god's sakes that you could buy for 50 bucks at a garage sale but instead you pay 2 000 bucks for it rent to owning. But this is all short-term thinking. Thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday. And that's where the prepaid credit card shows up, is in that environment. It's also payday lenders in that neighborhood. And what is these commercials? God, they're awful.

Cash advance, well, it's payday lenders. It's cash advance. But just horrendous. And the interest rates with the payday lenders, 800%. Unbelievable. 800%. Now, you want to find somebody that's picking on poor people? It's those people that are picking on poor people.

They're making a good living getting rich off the backs of poor people. When you charge poor people 800%. And by the way, rich people don't pay that. They don't play that. And those things aren't in the rich neighborhood. They're not even in middle class neighborhoods. You know, it's your lotto tickets. It's a short term.

It'll kill you guys. It'll kill you. Don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. Just go make some money. Live on less than you make and stack cash.

This is the ramsey show jade washall ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us america we're so glad you're here open phones at 888-825-5225 in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage colton is with us hey colton how are you doing most excellent thank you for having me here today guys we're honored to have you good to have you man where do you live austin texas oh fine welcome to nashville and how much debt have you paid off colton 62 258 092 cents excellent how long did this take 31 months good for you and your range of income during that time yeah started at right over 24 000 um and then i ended 2022 with uh right

over 71 000 wow good for you what do you do for a living uh it's a diverse job description uh do a lot but uh we work in a pretty small company uh but i can be tasked by any of our marketing heads our sales heads, finance. Our CEO calls me the control center. It's where all the information comes together, and then actions disseminate. I like it. I like it. Pretty cool. So you average $2,000 a month in debt reduction, starting out only making $2,000 a month. So most of this must have happened in the back end. Yes. It was a journey snowballing throughout the whole thing.

And as we continued down it, we definitely got to see bigger wins. Because your income went up, you were able to slam it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And every one that went down, the next one came up. There you go. Wow. I love it.

Good for you. What kind of debt was it? So it was all sorts of debt. We had student loans mostly, private and federal. Had a car loan, bunch of credit card, had some past due medical bills I had to pay. And then there was one little stupid tax I found myself in the whole time too. Okay. I found myself in more than one. That's not bad at all. What happened? How did you find us? What got you started on this 31 months ago? Yeah. So I was actually, I was on the lower end of the income of this journey and I found myself in a place where I really needed a vehicle

and I was in a place where it was mandatory for my job and I had to try and commute to get everywhere and I was just looking at things I was like I have no money I'm right out of college like I have no means to get a car how can I do this so I started going through you know my diligence to do the research and find out um and i finally found the home base when i found ramsey and this baby steps and i read the the book total money makeover and i remember buying it at a half price bookstore and i was like 20 i bought this book and by the time i finished the last page and i closed it i was like that's a million dollar book and it's going to change my life wow thank you okay so you're

broke and you read a $20 book and you need a car how you get in a car what happened so the before before i got the book i actually got the car oh you went into debt yeah that was the stupid text 12 you solved that problem with another problem yeah okay then i read the book i was like oh and this was like two months afterwards and i was like oh could have saved my problem so how much how much was the car debt in the 62? 12. Oh, that's not too bad. That's good.

Okay. Yeah, you're in good shape. And then you turn around, and 31 months later, after a $20 book at a used bookstore, boom. There you go. I like it. Yeah. I like your style. And all the strategies, getting involved with the career and getting passionate and doing

everything you can, just so many facets of your life, just being able to approach them and win in every single one of them very cool what did that look like for you i mean obviously you got your income up and you did it doing obviously it sounds like you're a jack-of-all-trades but how what did that look like how did you do it yeah it was actually a transition from from a few different jobs uh started on the lower end i was operations manager for a freight and logistics company. Um, and that worked really well. We did a lot of things. Like we did a lot of different business, like freight was only a part of it. We were moving, we were doing international. We had a lot. Um, but then I got a job offered, um, for a new company and it was a huge step up. And I was like, definitely that's a place I want

to go pursue. And I talked about it with the owner at the time and he was like do it um and then and then that second company sold and that's where I find myself in this new company and this is the place where I've just experienced the biggest the most growth and the biggest wins all over just relationally I got a feeling I know why I get me too I think secret's office is called colton uh-huh i see that yeah he's the he's the captain of his own ship well done sir well done well played i like it okay how old are you 30 years old 30 years old and you paid off 62 000 in two and a half years 31 months and you did that starting at 24 000 almost no income and jammed it all the way to 71 and did this. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? Yeah, I have to believe it's vision. You know, you get to the place where you're in a place and you're like,

I am done with this. I don't want this anymore. And I am going to get to the other side. You find the vision, you find the purpose, and then you can start setting goals. The vision starts, the goals follow the plan. Thank you, Dave, for giving us the plan because that was the easy part. The plan proceeds. And then once you start hitting the goals and you start doing everything, it all snowballs. It all gets bigger and better. And you win so much that you're encouraged and you're motivated and it keeps going and keeps going. But that all started with the vision. You get to the point where you said, I've had enough and I'm ready to get past it. Yeah. Amen. What was your what was

your vision because everybody everybody getting out of debt has that thing that they're picturing right like that's the why like if i can just get there what was yours actually this is actually hits the show perfectly is like generosity like i want to go out and i want to tip outrageously i want to just give i want to do so much for everyone but if i'm in a place where i'm making so little money and i'm paying everything i can to the banks uh then we find ourselves in a place we don't have very much money to give out we can't be generous as we want to be so my goal is to be as generous as possible and to get there i want to i want to take the steps and you figured out that you have a math problem if you're broke to be generous yeah you got you broke broke people it's hard to be generous

when you're broke i mean you can be generous with a smile you can be generous with the kindness and open a door make somebody a pie but uh but outrageous generosity it requires coin yeah well done sir well done i like it very very good good good good play on that who was encouraging you you know so that's the biggest thing thing I could say about the whole journey is like not many people understood at all. Like no one really got it. Like my dad would say, Colton, you need a new bed frame. My mom's like, when are you going to open up that dating budget?

I need grandchildren. Like everyone around me. The dating budget? Wait a second. How much can I put there, Jade? Like talk to me through it. I can't help you no uh but so people may not understand the steps or the intensity or how focused you have to be to do it but i was

surrounded by people who supported me like employer after employer you know i got called this morning at 10 a.m i was sitting in a diner up north and uh just out of nowhere our my ceo and our director of sales is sitting right next to me okay they called me out of nowhere, my CEO and our director of sales is sitting right next to me. Okay. They called me out of nowhere and said, Hey, guess what? We're here in Nashville.

We're coming down to Franklin. Don't do the debt free scream with you. And I was like, this wasn't on the plan. This wasn't on the agenda, but look at that. It's that level of support that I've had the entire journey. It's like friends,

family, my church, everyone around me. I am so supported. And the fact that we have our CEO and our director of sales here today is just a testament to that. It's pretty awesome. You're an easy guy to support.

You're an easy guy to get behind. I like placing my bets on a horse that's going to win. So yeah, well done. Well done, sir. Proud of you. Thank you, sir. Well played. Well played.

And congratulations. We're happy for you we've got a cop we've got the uh live and give speaking of that box for you the baby steps millionaires book which is definitely your next stop and the total money makeover book now you'll have a new one and you can give that away or give that used one away one of the two and then financial peace university membership as well so thank you for making the the trip from Austin all the way to Nashville and thanks to your leadership team for coming in and supporting you. That's real leadership. That's very well played, ladies. Very well played and good stuff. All right, Colton from Austin, Texas. $62,000 paid off in 31 months, making $24,000 to $71,000.

It helps to be a force of nature. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Wow! That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen.

Wow! that's how it's done ladies and gentlemen wow and his dating budget is open for the ladies you think it is you think it's ready now it's ready i'm looking at him you think it's happening his face card is not declining so he's he's he's ready have you ever heard that my friend told me that's the cool thing to say oh is it okay i Say it again because I need just a little bit of cool over this one. This guy's face card does not decline. Oh, okay. That's what you say when someone's handsome. Okay.

I got it. It took me a minute. Took me a lot longer. It didn't take me as long as the other one you were talking about. Oh, my God. That one took me a week. Yeah. I'm so slow.

It's good, though. I'm glad I didn't say that about him. That would have been weird. That's right. Yeah, you can't say that, Dave. That would be real weird. That would be weird. God help us.

This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Wow, that guy was inspiring inspiring the energy off of him amazing norman is in philadelphia hi norman welcome to the ramsey show hi dave and jade thanks for taking my call sure what's up um here's my situation i'm a 70 years old uh part-time pastor uh bivocational actually here in suburban Philadelphia, small congregation. And we are having to unexpectedly close due to some horrific circumstances. If you want to know them, I'll tell you. They're not super relevant to my problem or to my question, but I had been planning on working for another couple of years

and then retiring and then looking for housing. This, quote, retirement is being forced on me a couple of years early, not through my own doing, it's just the situation. And so I'm wondering what is wiser for me to do to purchase or to rent. A couple of things that play a role in my decision. My parents are still alive in their early 90s, and I'm committed to staying in the Philadelphia area for as long as they're alive, which means I'm in the Philadelphia expensive housing market. Otherwise, I could look for much less expensive housing somewhere else in the country. So you've been in a parish?

Yes, I've been in a parish, right. Yeah, and so have you been saving money towards purchasing a home? Yes, I have. I owned a home for 43 years, which I sold about two years ago, and have a maximum of $150,000 to $170,000 for a down payment from that home. And what is your income situation going to be? It'll be once I retire in the $70,000 range. Right now it's a bit higher than that because my wife and I are still working part-time for the next couple of

years. But once we actually retire, it'll drop a bit down into the $70,000 range. Okay, so if you purchase and your 90-year-old parents pass well, when your 90-year-old parents pass, we're all going to pass, so when they pass, whether it be two months or 20 years, I don't know. Right. Then your intention would be to leave Philadelphia.

Probably, yes. Mostly because of costs. Okay. Well, the general rule of thumb, and it depends on the market and the specific area within the specific market to get the exact math but the general rule of thumb is if you're not going to be in a property two years you're better off to rent and so my my thought my thought is right now that if we actually bought something we would commit to staying five to seven years. Okay.

Even if, let's say, my parents died in two years. Yeah. Okay. So we would just buy something. We would stay in it for at least the five to seven years. Regardless of their situation, you would be at least five. Yeah. Right. How is their health?

Right now, it's pretty good, actually. Okay. All right. Well, that's, it's pretty good, actually. Okay. All right. Well, that's good. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Now, my father-in-law is 94, and he's sharper than I am.

So, you know, that's how we want to be, right? Yeah. My dad will be 92 next month. Yeah. I would buy. I would buy. I would buy. You've got a five-year horizon. You'll make money on it.

It'll end up being net-net cheaper than having rented over five years. That's right. I would buy. Okay. Some people have suggested I maybe rent for a year and wait for the interest rates to drop because it's an election year. Well, that might be so, but during that year, prices might go up, too, because we still have a housing shortage. And even though inventory is, there's not a lot of people excited about the real estate

market right now, there's still more buyers than there is sellers. And so we're seeing prices go up, ironically, while interest rates are going up. But there's not a lot of volume of sales it's just uh but we've not seen a decline in values um not nationwide and i'm philly's a good strong market so i doubt it's experienced that so i i i would buy you got a five-year horizon we're going to commit to a five-year minimum you'll make money in that five years versus having rented you'll be glad you did um and yeah mathematically i would buy and and let's see what else you stabilize your costs you're you're in the housing market i am debt free i am debt free okay that's great uh what

do you have i don't i don't in a 403b like what do you have in retirement well uh it's it's actually way too complex i'm going to have about nine sources of income that's also including international uh so it's a pretty complex picture but you don't have any cash to get a hold of in addition to the 150 to just pay cash for a house i do yes i do yes but i would consider that i'm'm not sure. Yeah. What would you recommend for putting down for down payment? As much as possible? I like the 100% down plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really would.

I mean, I don't know what your net worth is. There's a lot of different things going on in your story here. But I wouldn't use your last dime to do it. But if you're sitting on another $500,000 or $600 and you use 400 to go with that you still got 200 plus these nine sources of income in a paid for house that's where I would be if I'm in your shoes I'm going to pay cash for something but I don't know that you know we'd have to really dig further down into your numbers to figure that out so at what point let's let's talk about that a little bit. Let's say you have a million dollars. At what percentage of that would you pull out in order to pay cash for your primary home?

The least possible to have a house that is quote unquote reasonable. And that's going to shift. You're in Philadelphia. Philadelphia is not an inexpensive market. Right. This is not Dayton, Ohio. Of course. Okay.

It's not Abilene. All right. It's, you know, it's going to be more expensive. It's adjacent to New York. Hello. Okay. So we're in a, you know, a very. I mean, and Philadelphia has got a wide variety of neighborhoods.

Yeah. But easily $400,000. Yeah. Yeah. I'd go $400,000 or $500,000. I would not go $900,000 out of a million. Right. Sitting there with $100,000 and all of it's tied up in a house. Yeah, absolutely. $500,000 feels like, to me, too.

That's pretty tight. I mean, yeah, but somewhere around that half million mark. And so that's why I say, if he's got another $500,000 or $600,000 on top of that $150,000 from the old house that he sold and he pulled out two or three of those $100,000 and still had two or three hundred laying there and he paid cash for $450,000, I mean, that starts to be optimum. And that's a less than median price, slightly below the middle in Philadelphia right now. So that's where he would be. But again, paying cash gives you a lot of ability to just sit and smile. Absolutely. And you don't have anything tugging at your wallet every month there.

It's a different environment. So very smart for pastors to hear this. Not a lot of pastors percentage-wise these days have parishes. That's right. Not as often as they used to. Parishes were traditionally or are traditionally employer-furnished housing, and it oftentimes was the house next door to the church. So they were handy to the church, and they could go over and turn on the lights.

And he was bivocational, so it was a smaller church likely. I mean, he wasn't even full-time pastor in terms of income off of it. He probably was full-time in ours. But the parishes have gone away. If, though, you are a pastor or sometimes they have an old parish around a church that's gotten started again or something and they'll put the youth pastor or the worship minister in there in those cases any of you that are doing that make sure you're still paying yourself a house payment even though you don't have a house payment because you're going to end up where he is having to buy a house at some point in your equation there's very few of you. I mean, if you're a priest in some of the denominations, some form of Catholicism, you might have no housing needs the rest of your life.

That's possible. But the vast majority of you that are in a parish are at some point going to need to provide your own housing, whether it's at retirement, at a job change, or whatever it is. And the vast majority of evangelical churches these days are not doing parishes. They've not worked out well. And so be prepared is the moral of the story. And Norman has done a really good job preparing, done a really good job. There you go, ladies and and gentlemen that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books Dave here.

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