The Ramsey Show - App - You Need To Do a 180 From the Life You’ve Been Living

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my co-host, Rachel Cruz. She's also the co-host of another show we do together called Smart Money Happy Hour. The number to call is 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money, we'll help you take the right next step, and we'll try to make it entertaining too because, you know, life's too short. Yeah, yeah yeah and money's fun all this is fun yeah we can enjoy the world is heavy and we're out here just making the light of it all and showing you some a path forward some hope so jeremy's going to kick us off across the border in ottawa canada

what's going on jeremy oh just trying to keep one foot in front of the other about yourself that's right my friend how can we help? Well, hopefully with some answers to some money problems. But in a nutshell, I uprooted my family and moved. Ended up taking about a 65% pay cut. And now everything's just starting to pile up and pile up and i i want to know if it makes me a deadbeat father if i uh if i move back to my old job where i'm making north of 150k versus south of 50k just to keep all the all the bills paid and food in the fridge what was the reason for you to uproot them and take this pay cut? It was clearly a big enough reason that you guys decided to do this. Just to keep the family together, be a little bit closer to my partner's family. They're super close, but...

Okay, and now you're realizing we can't sustain this financially with our lifestyle, our bills, and our much lower income. This is stressful for us, even though we're closer to family. Exactly. When you moved away, how far away are you from where you guys moved? Because when you said to go back to my job, does that mean move again to go back to the old job? Or you could do something different with where you guys live now? It's 3,000 miles. And I was told if I go back,

I'm going back by myself. Whoa, like an ultimatum? Yeah. Does she understand what's going on financially at all? How is she feeling? Is she stressed about it? She knows that it's not well, but she's kind of blind to it. And she just took a different job to work less hours too, which isn't helping anything. Okay. When you say she's blind to it, does that mean that she doesn't have all the information

or she has all the information, but the way she's processing it is not correct in reality uh i think she's just ignoring the the issue okay how much are you guys in the whole month financially with after everything's paid how much how much more do you need uh i don't know she doesn't tell me what uh what her expenses are okay so you guys don't have any finances combined no are you are you legally married or just cohabitating uh just we're uh we're common law and we got two two little ones okay and bank accounts are separate do you guys venmo each other for the mortgage how does this work? I take care of the mortgage in one vehicle, and she does the rest.

Okay, and she's not feeling the stress of this financially? Just you? No, she is too, because apparently she hasn't been able to make her minimums either. Okay, so it's sounding more like a relationship issue, Jeremy. It sounds like you guys just aren't doing well as a couple in general. I don't know if money's the main issue. I think it's become a symptom of it. But you guys, it doesn't sound like you guys communicate well or have the same goals or do this life together very well. It seems

very separate, even from an emotional standpoint. Is that right? It's getting there, that's for sure. Well, it sounds like you went along with this to appease her to be closer to family, knowing full well you guys were going to be in the hole financially. And I don't know if you didn't make that clear or if she just was blind to it, as you said, and just going, I don't care, we're making this move. We'll figure it out. Pretty much. Well, I don't know who your God is, but you need to come to Jesus' conversation where you go,

listen, you're clearly not doing well financially. I'm not doing well financially. This family's not doing well financially, and life is too short to live with this kind of stress. So if we're going to stay here, we have to make it work, and here's what that's going to take. And that's when we lay out the finances together, get on a budget together and figure out what the hole is and how we're getting out of it. And that might mean you need to find a higher paying job. She needs to work more hours. We need to combine bank accounts. That might be some of the next steps you take. Okay. And if that doesn't work, should I jump back out to my old jobs just so that I know that my kids are fed?

I mean, that's the noble thing to do. I don't think it helps your marriage at all or with this common law situation you have going on. So you're going to grow further apart while keeping the kids fed. And so I'd rather keep the kids fed. Can you keep the kids fed, though, where you guys are to be able to work on the relationship

and get a higher-paying job where you are? Or can you sell the car and make other sacrifices to cover your four walls for now? The car's upside down by about 15. Do you know what she makes at all? She's supposed to make $85 a year, but she has a habit of not going to work. Wouldn't you get fired? And if I don't show up to work enough, Dave says,

All right, we're going to find someone else who can actually do this job. Well, she works in health care, so they're begging for people to work there. And what do you do? I'm in the construction. Okay. What were you doing before when you were making six figures? I was working in a mining industry. And that industry obviously doesn't exist where you're at. No. Is there

an equivalent or is there a better construction job up the ladder that you can aim toward? I've progressed up the ladder in my company a little bit already. And the next step would be to become a supervisor. But that's at least a year and a half out because i've asked my boss for more hours and if he would be able to give me give me a wage increase and he just said that i'm i'm not there yet okay so jeremy i think what it comes down to is you guys aren't paying your bills i mean what what's happening financially there's an. So the adult thing is that you both sit down together and say, here's what it takes to run our household. And we have to make X amount every month

for this to happen. And we don't get to decide that we don't feel like doing that. That has to happen. So either we're cutting our freaking lifestyle and taking everything off the table and doing nothing in order to feed the kids, or we're gonna have to feed the kids.

Or we're going to have to decide different jobs. We're going to have to choose to move back. Like we don't get to just sit and not make money and not pay our bills like that. Like we can't do that. So that's not an option. We're adults and this is part of life. And so that's one thing. But the other thing I'm very concerned about, Jeremy, is the relationship. I mean, I mean, it just it sounds bizarre to me that she's so in the clouds that she wants nothing to do with you financially.

And she's made that very clear. My question is why? Because long term, this is not a sustained relationship. You cannot live your life on two separate pages financially because what that is, it's an indicator of how your relationship is in general. And you guys are going to just keep moving further and further apart. And you guys have two kids together, so it's worth the fight. But you first, from a tactical standpoint, have to get enough money in to pay the bills. And you both have to come to that understanding.

And if she is so in the clouds in that, then she may not be a great partner long term because she's probably in the clouds on everything else. So there has to be some big decisions that are going to be really difficult. But you both have to step up as adults and decide to face it together. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour.

Phone call is right there. Just pick it up, dial it, 888-825-5225. And if you get through the screeners, you'll be lucky enough to talk to Rachel Cruz herself and get some financial wisdom. That's my goal, at least. I'm hoping to call in very soon. All right, let's get to our question of the day, Rachel. It's brought to you by YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch,

and they give you a low fixed rate loan built just for you. Sharice K. lowered her payment from two grand down to 680 a month with YRefi. So go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey today to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Sid in Nebraska. What's your advice about retired senior citizens purchasing a house? Between social security and pensions, my husband and I have an annual income of about $125,000. We have $200,000 in cash and a little over $500,000 in our IRA accounts. We are going to buy a house for about $450,000. Should we take money out of our IRAs to pay for the house or keep it invested and take monthly distributions to help pay off the mortgage in less than 10 years? This is like a little Common Core math riddle.

It's very exciting. Okay, so the house is $450,000. They have some cash, $200,000. So that's great. That would be a serious down payment if they took that minus an emergency fund. And they could take some from the IRA and pay cash, but that would deplete their nest egg. So they would have to live off of Social Security and pensions for the rest of their life,

which we don't know how old they are, how many years they'll live. I don't have a crystal ball. But it sounds like between the Social Security and the pension, it's 125Ks. That's not bad. I could live off of that. Yeah.

So it depends. They live in Nebraska. Don't know what the cost of living is there. i i do like the idea of they could take on a mortgage because they're paying rent right now either way yeah yeah totally so if they could at least have a fixed expense of a mortgage and then knock that out over time and if times get tough they have the money and they can leave the money invested let it continue to grow yeah and seven or ten years from now let's have a goal to have no payments in the world yeah i think that's it i think you do still have an aggressive goal of paying it off because as quickly as you can pay

it off that's gonna leave those investments to continue to grow versus feeling like in a perfect world i'd say let's buy the house with cash right right there's not a ton of that to go around right now if they had a three million dollar nest egg plus this. Or, I mean, not even looking at $450,000 house. I mean, if you're retired, get something smaller. Do you need a three bedroom at this stage of life? I mean, you can downsize. I think that's the move. But I like the way they're thinking. And I don't think there's a wrong option here, but the goal is let's have no payments as soon as possible. Yes. It's great. Glad we agreed on something today, Rachel.

We got there. Always disagreeing, George. So much disagreement. All right, Amy's up next in Savannah, Georgia. What's going on, Amy? Hey, guys, how's it going? Pretty good. How are you?

Good, thank you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. I am looking for your top investment recommendations to a entrepreneur in her twenties. Nice. What do you do? I have an online business. It's digital marketing based, but we work with influencers. Oh, that's great. And, um, uh, have multiple other online business ideas as well as a brick and mortar and want to get into real estate investment.

So just looking to set myself up well while we're young. Fantastic. Are you married? Yes. Okay. And what is the household income between what you take home from the business? 75? Yes. Okay. What part of that is yours from the business? So we both work full-time for our business. So that's what we take home together from the business.

Is it just you two working in the business or do you have other employees? We have four other contractors on our team. Cool. And so what is your next goal? Do you guys have debt you're trying to clean up? Do you have savings you're working on? Or are you in that investment phase where you've already got those two? Yeah, we're on step four. So we've got the emergency fund, we've got all the debt covered

except for the mortgage. And so I really, you know, you hear all the advice, retirement accounts, life insurance, stock market, real estate, and I just want some narrow direction on where we should be investing. Yeah. Well, we have very simple instruction when it comes to investing, and that's mutual funds and real estate. That's pretty much all Dave Ramsey does. That's the only thing I've done. Rachel may be fancier than me. I don't know. No, not fancier chores for the same. So no requirement, no retirement account needed? No, no, you do need a retirement. That's what's within the retirement accounts. And you have options as a self-employed person that I want everyone to know.

If you're self-employed, you're a freelancer, contractor, you don't just get to say, well, I don't have a 401k, so I guess I'll never invest. You have the option of a solo 401k if it's just you and your spouse. You have the option of a simple IRA or a SEP IRA. So those are some options you can look into. And I'd be working with a financial advisor to figure out which one you can legally do for your situation. Yes. I think the goal, Amy, for you guys is to invest 15% of your income into retirement. And so that's going to look like from a business side, what

George is saying. Yeah, there's SEPs, there's solo IRAs, there's different options for entrepreneurs when it comes to investing for retirement. Then there's solo IRAs, there's different options for entrepreneurs when it comes to investing for retirement. Then there's also just your traditional, like just a Roth IRA. And anyone can open up that you can put in, I think $7,000 a year per person. So you can do that as well. So those are two great avenues to be putting that 15%. And then anything above that, once you guys are at a point that the house has paid off and all of it, that's when you can get a little bit more expanded when it comes to investing. So that's when you'd max out those retirement accounts because those are just great from a tax perspective. A lot of those grow tax-free, which is fantastic.

Or real estate's another great option down the road. And we always talk about paid-for real estate, so it's not starting big and fancy. You're actually starting pretty slow because it's at the speed of cash. And it's only after you've got your primary house paid off. Yeah, this is after, yeah, this is a baby step seven. Yeah. But for right now, Amy, that shooting for that 15% of your income going into retirement specifically is going to be the best bet for you. Perfect. So what about like a separate mutual fund through fidelity or something like that just like a taxable brokerage account yeah i wouldn't worry about that i you know the the wisest thing

to do is to take advantage of these tax advantage accounts first like the roth ira and then put extra money towards the house you guys own a house yes okay so i would put extra money to pay that off first before i opened up just like a mutual fund account. And then again, once the house is paid off, that's one thing Winston and I did. We opened up with just a separate mutual fund account that we just kind of had in there just to put extra money in, you know, if we had it. So, yeah, so there's definitely those other options. That's more of a baby step seven item. Once you get the house paid off, then you can increase your investing.

And then those taxable accounts become part of your wealth building plan to maximize it. But if I was in your shoes, Amy, I would just open up two Roth IRAs. Both of you put 15% in there. That's a little over $11,000 between the two accounts. And within the Roth IRA, once you have money in there, you have to actually purchase funds. And that's where we talk about those growth stock mutual funds. Got it. Okay.

Can I ask you a real estate question? Sure. Yeah. got it okay and i'm gonna ask you a real estate question sure yeah so we've we've purchased our first home in the forethought of turning it into a rental after the fact so what is your advice on how long to live in it can we move out of it before it's paid off to buy something else like what would your recommendation be there i wouldn't i mean i would i would get to a point that you would be able to cash flow the next purchase because um yeah i mean because if anything it's if you went and got another mortgage and had a rental then the rental payment you know

is is paying the is going to eventually be paying the mortgage of your primary house and so just adding another layer of risk and headache. And I'll tell you what I did. I just sold the house and used all of the equity toward the next one until you have that house paid off. Then you can focus on cash flowing that next purchase. So that's the simplest, most peaceful way to go about it. But again, if you scroll TikTok, you're going to see a lot of people going, oh my gosh, no, keep it as a rental every time. Why would you let go of it? Yeah. And I love the question though, Amy, because I think, again, we're all for real estate investing, but I do think there is this like romanticized idea of having rental property

and it's not that passive. I mean, there is so much that goes into it. You have to deal with people, you're dealing with stuff breaking. I mean, like you have this massive asset and if you don't have a lot of cashflow to cover some of those things, it just ends up being a real headache. And so, again, the most peaceful thing to do is what I would do is, yeah, roll all your equity into the next house. And like Winston and I, which I know this is these years aren't here anymore, but this was about a decade ago. But we got a condo, George, for forty four thousand dollars in foreclosure. And it's like it's like It was far out of Nashville. Crappy, crappy condo.

We went and redid it and all of it. And we kept it for about a decade and then sold it. And I appreciate it. You can start really, really small. Start small. Don't feel like you have to go big. And again, it's not as passive as you think. It's a lot of work.

It's a lot of work. Good reminder. And if you want a free guide, a complete guide to investing, go to RamseySolutions.com slash guide. Anyone listening out there, it's our free guide for investing, ramseysolutions.com slash guide. Hey, George Camel here with a not so fun fact. Every American social security number, including our children's, has been hacked and is now on the dark web. And this is not a scare tactic. This isn't fear mongering. It's a reality that could turn into a nightmare for a lot of people. And believe me, I've been a victim of identity

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and I trust them to protect yours too. So get enrolled today by calling 800-356-4282 or just visit Zander.com. That's Z-A-N-D-E-R.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camorge camel my co-host today is rachel cruz and the number to call is 888-825-5225 well the holiday season's here we've got something extra special to brighten your christmas you can enter the ramsey five thousand dollars christmas cash giveaway enter daily to increase your chances to win one of our five hundred dollar weekly prizes or that five grand prize five grand grand grand prize. You like that? Five, five, five.

That's a tongue twister. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway. And while you're at it, don't forget our 50 days of Christmas deals. You can save up to 30% on gifts that will give hope and life change to everyone on your list. We're talking about books like I'm Glad For What I Have from my friend Rachel Cruz or my book Breaking Free From Broke on sale for the first time and other Ramsey fan favorites. These deals will help you stay on budget while giving gifts that matter. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash store or click the link in description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Let's get to the phones. Lindsay's up next in Louisville. What's going on, Lindsay? Hey, guys. How are you all?

We're doing well. How can we help today? So I have a quick question. My boyfriend and I have recently moved in together, and we've been together for about a year now. I'm very early on in the baby step, so I have about $700 in my $1,000 fund. Good for you. And, yeah, it's a big deal. So I have about $30,000 in debt, and this was all accumulated before we got together. He has his own debt. I don't know all of it, but it's definitely not as much as I have.

My question is, do I focus on my debt alone and he focus on his debt alone, or should we combine these and tackle them together? I just don't know what's right. So keeping them separate is what we would recommend because you guys aren't legally married. So combining finances to someone that you're not married to can get really messy really, really fast. So yeah, I would definitely keep it separate. So I would work two completely separate baby steps. So you have your 700 with your debt, he has his. And then if you guys ever did get married, then you would combine it. After you say, I do, rings are on, good to go, combine it all,

and you can work out a one account. But yeah, what we have found, Lindsay, is just that, you know, if or when, you know, a breakup happens, and so much of either his assets, your assets end up getting entangled with each other, and you're using your income to pay off his debt. He's using his income to pay off your debt. And it really, from an individual standpoint, you've made no progress or less progress than you would have made if you just worked on your own, if something were to happen and you guys separated. So yeah, that's what we would say. Can I ask a harder question, Lindsay? Yeah, absolutely. When are you guys getting married? Well, we have talked about it.

It also is kind of weird because I just got out of a 15-year relationship, well, not recently, but, you know, a while ago, and all of our debts were combined. Like, his debts were my debts, you know, and then this one was separate. We were, yeah. Yep, yep, totally. Which is a little separate. We were. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Which is a little different.

I was like, man, what if something happens? We're only paying off his debt. And then I look, you know, I'm coming out behind. That's right. There's a thousand things that could go wrong with this situation. And that's why we recommend just waiting. You'll have legal protection. You'll have the marital unity of going, all right, it is we now.

It's our one account, our one pile of debt. And that is the best way. When you get to that point, you will find that it does accelerate, but now is not the time to do that. So if and when you guys get married, combine, and we hope both of you are on your journeys and keep each other accountable. Is he on board with this plan? Yeah. Yeah. We've been kind of flirting with the idea separately, obviously, for about three years. I think you make it a competition. You know what bored with this plan yeah yeah we and we've been kind of flirting with the idea separately obviously for about three years and i think you make it a competition you know what i mean like no that's great that's actually a great idea because everything's a competition how about this

you pay yours off first he's got to pop the question if he's serious about this my gosh it determines on the he pays his off first he has to pop the question don't listen to that lindsey i'm kidding but yeah don't let that hold you guys back from getting married either that's another thing that comes up is they go well we want to wait till we're debt free to get married get married when you feel like it's the right time to get married and the debt will take care of itself if you guys are on the same page awesome awesome awesome advice i do have one more quick question i already know the answer to this but I just want to see what you guys think. Okay. Tell us the answer after you're done because I'm curious. I have about, okay, I have about 20 grand in student loan debt.

I plan on going back in January. Obviously, I don't want to take out more debt to do that. So I'm guessing the right answer here is to pay out of pocket. Yes. Why are you going back? What are you getting back? What kind of degree? It's a social work degree. So I'm going to be a therapist. I have two years in. I need pretty much two more to even be taken seriously, four more to actually get anything done. So yeah, that's kind of my thought process. What's it going to cost?

That's a good question. I'm going to university, so I'm sure it's going to be up there. I went in Denver for one semester and it cost me $10,000 just to walk in the door. Well, I would caution you to make this as affordable as possible because I don't know if you know, but like social workers, they're not out there flexing with their crazy high income. So I don't want you to go spend 50 grand to go make 35. Okay. And so if you're going to even cashflow it, find the, is it the only way? Is it the best way? As our friend Ken Coleman would say. And if that means an online program, a community college, they really don't care where you went. They just want to see that you did the work, you got the experience. Okay. Okay. That's great advice too. Thank you

guys so much. Absolutely. Thanks, Lindsay. We helped at least one person today, Rachel. We're off to a great start. All right, let's move on to Stefan in St. Paul, Minnesota. What's going on? Hey, Rachel. How's it going? Great. How are you? Doing great. Hey, so a little bit about me. i am 20 years old uh and i still live with my parents uh out of high school i went into trades and i currently work for a solar company where i do uh day-to-day operations and uh um i'm their lead designer as well so i guess my question for you guys is you know i'm at that stage where I would like to move out and I have a good chunk of money saved. But I'm wondering if I should wait another year or two and put a big, large payment on a house or I should move out now and slowly save up and wait till the time is right to buy a house.

I mean, I'm usually more on the side of moving out. And now if you had a very, very specific goal with a very specific timeframe saying, you know, maybe you had $15,000 in debt and you're like, I mean, if I, you know, I'm working three jobs, I'm going to pay this off here, but I'm saving money on rent. But in six months I'm moving out after the debt's paid off like if there was like something that was more specific for you um then maybe considering it but but the fact that it's just to save up for a down payment on a home um I don't know there's something to be said about just living on your own and and figuring out life there is a a something within your character that changes when you have to be the one responsible completely and now that you're an adult and you're working full-time you're making great money uh i think

it's just i think it's better for you to be out on your own now you're 20 years old so you're still pretty young you're not you know oh yeah 28 or 30 32 i moved out at 20 stefan if it gives you any uh you know and i moved across the country, finished school, all that. But in your shoes, I would think it's wise to rent. It's kind of like you don't want to go for your first car when you're 16 and get a Lamborghini. It's just too much car. The maintenance is too expensive. You're not prepared for it at that age. So similar to becoming a homeowner at 20, I would say it's a lot going on right now when your frontal lobe is still developing and you're trying to figure out life. But it's a great way to stair-step it and go, all right, I know how to pay bills on my own, still having to take care of my own life. There's a sense of independence.

There's a maturity that happens. And that's why I think it's wise to rent for a year or two or however long it takes. But to move out though. Yeah. Before you... So I would say, absolutely, move out. You're out of debt with an emergency fund? I currently owe about $7,000 on my car, but I worked a side hustle over the summer, and I'm ready to pay that off at the end of the year. Awesome. That would be my goal. Let me get the debt paid off.

Let me get a little savings going to prepare for the deposit that's going to be required for rent, some furniture for my own place. And then I would say, mom, dad, it's been awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. But yeah, and I would have a, I would have a money goal between now and February. If you decide to move, whenever you're deciding to move, have a goal of a amount you want and a timeframe. And I think it would be very mature of you to sit down with your parents and say, Hey, here's my plan. You know, I'm going to be here for four or five more months. My plan is to save up this. I'm going to pay off my car and just give them the dignity as parents to be like, yeah, I'm an adult and I'm moving off. And well done, mom and dad.

Thanks for all the help. And I'm a man now and I'm making my own money and living in my own spot. I'd be teary eyed if I was that parent going, I did a good job raising my son, Stefan. Stefan. We're cheering you on, man. This is awesome. Great job. What a fun rite of passage to move out of the house and get your own place,

even if that's renting. It's the wise thing to do. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on.

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This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. And a very special, yes, some would call it a cameo. Ken Coleman joins us. I like what you did there. For this segment. A cameo. This is what we call a callback.

So you guys took a call on The Ramsey Show. Yeah. And it became legendary. Dave reacted to this call, and we got an email from them back, and we wanted to give you guys an update. So tee it up, Rachel. Yeah, so we got a call when Ken and I were on the show probably a few months ago, and it was a mom who got her daughter tickets

to the Taylor Swift concert. And she was like, well, if she sold those tickets now, she could pay off all of her student loan debt. What should do and I'm like you go to the concert I mean like like you live once this is insane go to the concert you can't get tickets for it if you got tickets you go you figure out the debt later you didn't go into debt for the concert but the tickets are just go and enjoy and then Ken over here became a Swifty and said the same thing well here's the deal I asked one quick question of the lady she said And Ken over here became a Swifty and said the same thing. I was shocked. I was shocked. Well, here's the deal.

I asked one quick question to the lady. She said, if we sell them, we'll make somewhere in the 10 grand range and we'll put it towards it. And I said, are you planning to spend that amount of money out of your own pocket to help your daughter with her student loan? And she said, no. And then I said to Rachel, shock, I think I go make a memory with your two daughters. Wow. Life is short. Yeah.

And she acted like I was the Grinch who got a heart. I couldn't believe it. So then the comments on YouTube were like, well, and the comments were like, Dave would never give this advice. They're giving the wrong advice that David would. So then when Dave was on the show a week later, we played the clip. So I was like, Dave, you tell America, were we wrong? And he agreed with us only because it was a gift from the mom to the daughter.

And he said, you can't undo a gift. You can't like make her now sell it. Now, he said, if your daughter called me, then maybe I would make her sell. But I think we do have a clip we can play, James. OK, my daughter is 22 and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt. And about a year ago, she was able to get on the pre-sale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter, and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert in Indianapolis. We got them for like $209 a piece. So now I'm seeing these resale prices.

Oh, it's crazy. Oh, it's crazy. It's insane. Yeah. And so I told her, like, why don't we sell those tickets and you can knock down so much of your student loan that you'd be so far ahead. She says, absolutely. It's non-negotiable. It's a bucket list item.

She's like, probably you, Rachel, a swifty. And this is, you know. And it's her money, right? No, it was my money. Oh, okay. It was my money. I paid for them. But, you know, I mean, this is, and for me, too, I'm looking at, like, you know, she's

iconic. I would love to go to her concert. My daughter, of all the people that she could take, she wants to take her sister and me. You know, I mean, that's great. It's going to be a fun thing. Oh, my gosh. What would your take be? What, Rachel, now walking us through,

what do you think you could make on these tickets? I'm thinking they would average out between three, four grand. A ticket. Easy. Yeah, per ticket. So her student loan debt is $24,000? Correct. And that's what you would want to put the money towards? Absolutely, 100% of it would go to there. Would you be putting nine thousand plus dollars towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets i would not i wouldn't resell these tickets here's the deal jill you weren't planning to cut a check for nine thousand five hundred dollars to put on your daughter's student loan ever i was not so my point is, this is like a windfall, right? If $9,500 fell into my lap, I might do that. I get it. But this is your daughter's and it's a once in a

lifetime concert. Oh yeah. I agree. You go, Jill, go to the concert. You weren't going to do this anyway. And I think your daughter said absolutely no way, and I think it creates an unnecessary tension. She's 22. She needs to pay the thing off herself anyway. There's a lot of reasons. I want our audience to know I'm not just – I just think when I look at something like this, this is about the emotional, not the financial. There we go.

Oh, man. I mean, that's some common sense wisdom right there. And here's the update. Jill emailed back in. We got this yesterday. This is a sweet note. Can I read this email? Yeah, because I can't. I'll cry.

Okay. That's true. I was pretty amazed that my call in question garnered so much discussion and the follow up with Dave and Rachel was great. Love that. I wanted to send an update because we went to the indie concert this past Sunday and it was just as amazing an experience as Rachel indicated it would be. Taylor Swift really puts on an impressive performance, and the crowd and energy was

fabulous. I had a wonderful weekend with my daughters. Like Ken advised, I made great memories with my daughters. I'm attaching a couple photos. You're seeing them on the screen if you're watching on the app or YouTube. Look at this one. Read what that says. And look at this bracelet, the friendship bracelet that is now Taylor made famous.

What's it say? Ken says, make memories. And I got choked up when I read this the other day. I did. Did you ever think that you'd make it to a Taylor Swift friendship bracelet? No, and it wasn't about that. That's actually like a really cool bucket list thing, though. Yeah, but it wasn't that I was included in that.

It was that I had a little teeny tiny, really fun and entertaining, small, infinitesimal play in that mom was that I had a little teeny tiny really fun and entertaining small infinitesimal play in that mom making memories and I just think that you don't know if you have tomorrow and I think I got choked because I got one little girl yeah and I if Josie said dad take me to Taylor Swift I'm gonna go deliver garbage I'll you know I might steal some ordering garbage I'm just making the point you do, and you would do it for little Mia. 100%. Come on. I got a little choky. It's a little dusty in here right now. What is the TLDR

spark notes here is she didn't go into debt to do it. She did not. It was a gift. She wanted to be generous and make a memory. Yes, and because that the tickets, the value of the tickets went up so high. I think there's a lady in the front row that's a little crying. She's crying. Are you crying? I think she's laughing at in the front row that's a little crying. She's crying. Are you crying?

I think she's laughing at you, Ken. Oh, you're not crying? Maybe she is. You're kind of laughing at me? No one knows. She was crying, I think. She was. See, she didn't know.

Wow. That's special. It was a sweet thing. I know. And I think we turned Ken into a Swifty by accident. I know. I don't even know what that means, but sure. Oh, you are, Ken.

My daughter is. Deep in your heart, I think you're there. Because it's always the tension on this show when we talk about money that we say you live what that means but sure oh you are my daughter is deep in your heart i think you're there because it's always the tension on this show when we talk about money that we say you live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else and so this mom was debt free the mom was responsible financially she had the cash to pay for these tickets like she did nothing wrong i mean nothing that we would say like oh my gosh you shouldn't do that but her daughter on the other hand right is the one with the student loans

and all of it, but it was a gift to her daughter. And again, it's this tension between we want to be wise financially. You want to get to a place that you financially are at peace. You have a solid foundation under.

You don't have debt. You have an emergency fund. Like we take care of it. We are adults. We're going to be wise with our money. But then on the other hand, hear me say this and all of you that have listened

for a long time and are on Baby Steps five six and seven enjoy your life enjoy your life and everyone's like oh dave you know saves all the time dave ramsey doesn't he he saves but dave spends he ain't eating rice and beans no more dave parties like i mean he's a he is a spender and that's what we want for you too we want you to be at a place where you have the money and you can enjoy it downshift from the gazelle intensity to intentionality budget for it the ramsey the ramsey message is not oh my gosh we're gonna have to find coupons for every single purchase for the rest of our lives because we have to just save a ton and we're gonna just die with all this money and we never enjoyed life george george we're talking to you by the way i know i felt that that was a personal attack. Enjoy it. Enjoy life.

Enjoy life. Someone's enjoy also using a coupon. No, you enjoy counting your money. Oh, my God. You're the nice Ebenezer Scrooge. You're not a mean person, but you like counting your coins. He likes to split appetizers at restaurants with people. Guys, this is true.

This is not about me. This is true. There's a point, people. This is true. There's a point that we need to just relax and enjoy. Relax and get your appetizer and buy the taylor's you know what your advice would have been if you buy any memorabilia or merch sell it afterwards i probably would have said george would have sold the tickets i would

have said sell the tickets invest in a good gross stock mutual fund from 22 to 62 is that really what you would have said in that situation no no i probably would have been on team ken and rachel and said begrudgingly yolo because you know it's the recipient you can't even then you got to throw a begrudgingly on well it's the recipient's deal she gets to do what she wants with that gift if she wanted to sell it and pay off debt or do anything else that's up to her absolutely by the way i do want to point out that at the very end of that segment you can go back and watch it on youtube and it was also on i think rachel's instagram and she collabed with me on that one but uh i finished with a uh a lyric from 22

that's impressive and the and the mom said she followed up she what was it it was something i forget but it was a really bad at the joke yeah i thought i was gonna be i thought i was gonna be cool host and drop in a lyric and then mom came right back and Rachel was so happy. I don't know that I've ever gone to commercial break where she was so emotionally just overjoyed. Yeah. So much fulfillment in her face. You got to watch the clip. For those of you that were listening, we played that. You got to watch her. She's so excited and scared. I want to see you guys communicate only in Taylor Swift lyrics. And just know, one of the joys of happiness, and they found this scientifically proven. Arthur Brooks talks about this.

You actually can find joy when you spend money on experiences with people that you love. It brings actual joy to your life. So, versus buying stuff. Let's book a guy's trip. I'm in. He just talked about how he didn't have a lot of friends to travel with. You, me, Deloney, Taylor Swift. No.

See, it was great until you said that. Didn't know where you were going with that. We'll go canoeing with James. Next time you guys host a show together, you better be Taylor Swift. No. Oh, see, it was great until you said that. Didn't know where you were going with that? We'll go canoeing with James. Next time you guys host a show together, you better be wearing friendship bracelets, too. Yeah. Let me guess. We're going to go hunting and kill stuff. No, thank you.

I'll take Taylor Swift. This has been The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by best-selling author and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Alexis will kick us off in Phoenix.

How can we help, Alexis? Hi. So I am a single mom. Well, I'm not a single mom. I'm a co-parent, and I currently make $50,000 before taxes, so I bring home about $38,000 to $40,000 after taxes. And my problem is I have $3,500 in bills monthly, but my paychecks, I bring home $3,000 a month. So I'm always $500 below what I need to pay my bill. So I didn't know if it was smart to stop paying my personal loan or to stop contributing to my 401k. Um, like I don't want to hurt my credit, but at the same time, I'm like, maybe it's more important to, you know, tackle the bills that are non-negotiable. Yeah. How much of the 3000 is debt and how much of it is just bills for lifestyle? All of it. So all of it is, um, bills, the 3,500 that I owe monthly, all of it's bills.

My rent is, I pay $1,800 for everything in my house. My car note is like $534. Car insurance is $200. Health insurance is $150. It all adds up to. Sure, sure, sure. Okay, so tell me the debt specifically. So your car loan is how much total?

$30,000. $30,000. And you pay how much a month 534 34 okay and then what other debt you said a personal loan yeah i have um a couple of personal loans you consolidated it so i have one 2500 one um and i have a couple of credit cards so So altogether, that's another $10,000. So I'm $40,000 in debt. And then just like my, my, the bills that I have, $40,000 in debt. Yes. Okay. So how much is the payment for the personal loan, the $2,500? $300. $300. Okay. And how much are you paying in credit cards every month? I actually stopped paying, well, one of them is $ 50. I paid $50 for the small credit card, the $500 credit card.

The other two ended up going to collection. Okay. So I haven't been making any payments on that. And I have been thinking about just letting the other one go to collections. You know, there's only credit. Yep, for sure. Okay. So, yes, I would stop contributing to your 401k for sure.

I would stop any retirement savings. I would press pause on that. So I would call your HR department on Monday and make sure that no more money is taken out. What percentage is that, or what's the monthly amount that's taken out? $80, and then they go up to six percent so they're matching me to i contribute to four percent they contribute to okay all right so if we pause that you'll get 80 bucks back in your life here's what we're doing the math for we're trying to find you margin and

there's two ways to get it yeah spend less and make more i think we need to do both and this car alexis it is it is way beyond what we would recommend. We always say that you want anything with motors and wheels to be half or less of your annual income. And yeah, you're making, you know, $50,000. You have a $30,000 car. You have too much car. So I would be getting rid of that. Do you know how much it would be if you sold it, Kelly Blue Book it? No, I just got it this year i got it in february so it's 2024 um i don't know but i know i will be upside down and i ended up having to get the car because the one that i had i had to put it in a little 2016 wasn't the best car alexis a and b car let

me yeah i want to show you something about your language that has gotten you to this point you said i had to okay nobody has to get a $30,000 car. Right. Now, I understand that you didn't have the money to pay for a car in cash, but it's these kinds of decisions where we take that off the table, we start to go, okay, what car can I afford?

Well, I could afford a $7,000 car if I save up 500 bucks a month for the next 12 months. That kind of decision and process will help you get to the point where you no longer ever touch debt again. Because if you think about it, this car payment is exactly the amount of money you need to stay current on all of your bills every single month and break even. So yeah, and I would, and Alexis, I would do a private sale. Get the most money for it.

I wouldn't like trade it in a dealership or anything and so if you're if you're underwater on it then you will take another small personal loan and you can add a couple thousand dollars to that loan as well just to get a car to get you by but again i'm talking about like a really crappy not great car like something really really really really cheap like five six seven thousand dollars because i would rather you have a $10,000 loan than a $30,000 loan right now. So if you're underwater by five, let's say it's only worth 25 and you owe 30, and then you're going to buy one for five, well, that's a 10 grand delta we need to find. And so that's where Rachel's saying, go down to your credit union, get one personal loan so that we lessen the debt and get you out of that payment. Yes. And then what's the situation with your kids?

You said you're co-parenting. What do your weeks look like? Do you have the kids every day? Are you split custody? How is that working? Yeah, I have her four to five days a week. But we're very flexible. We don't have a set schedule.

But he's very involved He has the baby runs if I ever Need him to however So yeah because I mean I if I Were you in this position I see a way out you're able to You're going to be able to get out of this debt even though I know It feels overwhelming but if you think

About it if you go down and car And we'll pretend your new loan is 10,000 yeah you have some credit card debt but then the that's going to be 12 000 how much is credit card debt do you have did you say total 10 000 okay so you're cutting your debt in half just by getting rid of this car and that's going to get you out of debt twice as fast yeah i definitely thought i'm definitely open to it because i definitely thought about it i I just didn't know how I was going to, you know, eat up the, what I was over in, but like, yeah, I guess. Either you have it in savings or you need to get the difference in that personal loan.

And it doesn't, do you have anything in savings right now? Not as of this month, no. I ended up using it all. Okay. So your next goal, your A1 is number one, keep food on the table. So your four walls need to stay covered before any other bills are paid. So your food, utilities, housing, transportation. And if that means the bill can't get paid for the credit card companies, whatever. We'll deal with that later. Then beyond that, you need to get $1,000 saved really fast to cover those little ankle-biter emergencies. And then, Alexis, too.

Sorry, I know we're throwing a lot at you. But your rent, you're bringing home $3,000 a month, and your rent is $1,800. So that's more than half of your take-home pay. So I don't think that's sustainable. That's going to be a really, really hard hole to climb out of, in a sense, versus if it was, you know, $1,000, right? And I know that rent and more, like the housing situation is- It's less in your control.

It's so difficult. so difficult but again for a season for two years right like it's not going to be forever but for two years finding something that is way cheaper is something that that i would look into too because um it's either getting your income up or it's going to be lowering your expenses and that's a that's a glaring expense that I see that's not, from a ratio standpoint, is going to be really difficult for you to get ahead with keeping that more than 50% of your income going to rent. And so for now, Alexis, that might mean that you get a side hustle

that brings in $125 a month. I mean, $125 a week, that's $500 a month to keep you afloat, to cover all the bills. That might be what's necessary in the season on top of working, getting your core income up. And I would say still on top of moving. Would you, George? I mean, I wouldn't- If you can find a place that's cheaper. Yeah. Might be a little further out. Not as nice, but-

Because I would hate to have a side hustle just to keep your living expenses afloat. Because the goal is that your income keeps everything afloat that you need, your four walls, and anything extra is going at the debt. And so again, I think it's going to be difficult to do that with that $1,800 rent payment. So I would look really hard, Alexis, for somewhere cheaper. I hope that helps. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy.

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I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. This is The Ramsey Show, open phones at 888-825-5225. We're heading to Tampa next to talk to Corey. How can we help, Corey? Hi there. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's going on? I'm contemplating selling my small business to accept a job that would increase my total income to try and get out of this debt that we're in as quick as possible. And I'm just trying to make sure that I'm doing the right thing. Okay. How much debt are you in? Right around $100,000 before my mortgage. Okay. And what kind of debt is the $100,000? Let's see. We got $35,000 is allocated towards the small business. It's a food truck. So that was a startup loan from friends and family members, about $30,000 in student loans, $10,000 to fix the AC,

and then about $25,000 in vehicles. Okay. And what is this business worth if you were to sell it? I would estimate around $42,000 to just sell the trailer. And then I also have a truck that I bought to use with the business that I could potentially let go as well. What's that worth? It's worth right around $13,000

and I owe $18,500 on it. Okay, so you're about $5,000 underwater on that. Okay. So you would get $55,000 essentially for selling this business? Correct. And you'd need another $5,000 to get out of the underwater loan, and you're about $100,000 in debt. So this gets you out of debt twice as fast.

And what's the household income now? Right now my wife just got a promotion. She makes 67 before bonuses with potential 12,000 in bonuses. I make about 550 at a part-time job a week. And then the trailer, we really don't take a paycheck from it. I just, whatever profits at the end of the month, I throw at debts, which is averaging between, you know, $2,000 and $3,500 a month. Okay. So altogether, you guys make about $100,000 a year? Roughly. It's not including the trailer in any way, shape, or form, seeing as how I don't take a paycheck from it.'s it's closer to

like uh 85 to 90 and what's the new job cory that you're looking at i would be taking a chef position at the part-time job now which would get me up to um 73 guaranteed with a potential 12 000 bonus as well amazing um for the food truck itself is it something you would go back to doing after if you were completely debt-free would you still keep this keep doing this or are you getting burned out uh well i kind of burned out on it um been doing it for about two and a half three years working seven days a week, you know, 70, 80, 90 hour weeks. And just, it was never supposed to be the end all be all. It was supposed to be a stepping stone towards a brick and mortar location. And it's just looking like the reality of it. It puts it,

you know, five, six, seven years down the road. And I just don't think that I could put my family through that hardship. Yeah, totally. That's mature of you. Yeah. don't think that I could put my family through that hardship yeah totally that's mature yeah and I think I mean I think you're um listening to your gut and I think you're you're seeing kind of the tea leaves of what's happening which I think is really smart Corey really really smart especially when you talk about the food industry we've gotten calls of people um that go straight to want to go straight to the brick and mortar and take out a massive loan and the food industry is one of the highest ones that, the highest parts of small businesses that goes up

and it goes down and it closes more than any other industry. It's just a, and as you experienced with the food truck, it is just a, it's a tough, it's a tough world to be in. It's a lot of work, a lot of work. And again, not always with the guarantee that it's world to be in. It's a lot of work, a lot of work. And again, not always with the guarantee that it's going to be successful. So being a chef somewhere, I think sounds like the perfect next stepping stone. You're going to get a 50 grand raise while getting rid of half of your

debt. And you're still doing the thing you love. You're still able to, you know, be in that world of cooking and food and hopefully innovating. Yeah. I mean, like to me, this is kind of a no brainer, honestly, because I don't know, this is kind of a no-brainer, honestly, because I don't know, you kind of get to still live your dream but not have to deal with owning anything right now. Right. So, yes, I would. I would do it.

I'd try to get top dollar for your trailer and the truck. Do you have anything in savings? We have right around $2,000 in our emergency savings, and then I have about $2,000 in cash that just kind of floats around for expenditures. Okay, you may want to wait another paycheck or two, get that $5,000 difference that you're underwater on so that you have the money to actually get rid of the note on that truck. Okay.

And that way you're not having to take out another loan to clean this up. And then I'd take that new job, man, and I would clean this mess up. You're probably getting, I mean, you'll be making, what, $150K household at that point? Roundabouts, yeah. And so you'll $50K in debt. 24 of it's not guaranteed. So there is a little bit of a fluctuation on it. Sure.

So making about $150K with $50K left to pay off, that's going to get knocked out real quick versus your situation now, which is we make $80,000, $90,000 with $100,000 to pay off. The math ain't mathin' on that one. So we do need some drastic changes. You're willing to do it. You're burnt out on this. And guess what? Later on down the road, you may decide to do this dream again, but you're going to do it with cash with more experience while making more money. And so I don't want you to...

I know it's hard to grieve something that you put your heart and soul into, and I can tell you're passionate about it, but there's also wisdom in going, now's not the time. Yeah, and, you know, we just found Dave Ramsey and your whole system a few months ago, and we have made considerable progress towards our debt. We always live, all of our debts from three years previous. We haven't gone into any debt in the last three years. We were just paying minimums, and then we read, you know, Total Money Makeover, and we've started trying to get out of this debt.

We're still struggling with the budget somewhat. You know, I feel like there's still more room for cutting some expenses but it's just you know i've been a little bit of a struggle yeah and just to give you some some hope and i mean you guys have just been doing this a couple of months and even with the budget we we say it usually takes about three to four months to really get in the cycle of doing it and and it actually be correct that you can live on so you guys are just starting out and the fact that you're so gung-ho about it, I'm like, you're going to make great progress.

And the budget is easier to do when you have less debt, more income. The numbers will start to give you some hope instead of go, oh my gosh, how are we going to fix this puzzle? And so we're wishing you the best, Corey. Appreciate the call. Yeah, and you know what?

Hold on the line, Corey. Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year on us. And this is our budgeting app that hopefully will help get this a little bit more organized. It's a very, it's a great app because it's very fine-tuned. Like you get to see all the caters. Yes. All right. Let's go to Kathy in Boston. How can we help Kathy? Hi. Hey. What's your question? Okay, I'm 67 years old, and I'd like to retire in three years.

And I do have money in stocks and bonds and mutuals. And I'm not sure if I should keep it there or if I should maybe switch to annuities or IRA, CD. I didn't know the best way to go. Well, I mean, switching to annuities and IRA, CDs, you're talking about really lowering your ability to make any money. And so you're just sort of preserving what is. And, you know, if you're 67, there's a good chance you live to 87 if you're in good health, right? Yes. And so I want to see your money grow beyond the rate of inflation.

So what is your money in and how much? I have approximately $215,000, and that would be like stocks, bonds, mutuals, because I have it in three different places that kind of manage it. Okay. What else? I do have Social Security. Okay. And then I work, and I work. Okay. So what's your plan to actually retire? How will you cover your expenses in retirement? Just with my investments and the money I have, and of course my social security. What are your monthly expenses? Oh, let's see. Maybe $1,600 a month. I mean, $2,000 would be way overkill. Okay. And what's your Social Security payment going to be?

$2,100 after tax. Oh, nice. So that's enough to cover the baseline bills for now without more inflation. And I would leave your money invested in the market. I wouldn't go to search for a 4% return. What we've seen in the market, I just checked my 401k last year, Kathy, 37% return when I just left it in and didn't touch it and left it in the overall market and grow stock mutual funds versus those less risky but lower return things like those CDs and annuities.

So I would stay on your plan. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my Smart Money Happy Hour co-host, Rachel Cruz. If you like this show, you'll definitely like Smart Money Happy Hour. Go check it out on the Ramsey Network app or wherever you get your podcasts, as well as YouTube. So you've been hearing us talk about the budget. That really is the key to creating margin with your income, spending less, making more, making a plan for your money. Every dollar is the best way to do it. You can plan your spending, track your expenses, save for what matters most to you all in an easy to use app that fits into your busy life. If you've got a spouse, they can be signed in and have it on their smartphone too. So go check it out. Go download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play,

or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Stacey's up next in Atlanta, Georgia. How can we help you today, Stacey? Hey. Hey. Well, my problem is my husband was out of work for two years. He invested in something that just didn't work out, and so he had to go back and get a job. And we put all of our life savings, everything, retirement, everything into it. So we have nothing. Oh gosh, Stacey. Yeah. What happened? How much are we talking and what was this investment?

So he actually invented a product and it's still underway and EPA just kept putting it back and putting it back and putting it back so it's kind of stuck with California's EPA and he just thought it would be like oh this will be a five-year plan me I'm more realist I'm like this is going to take at least 10 or 11 years well I was right and it's not fun being right and so he had to get a job he's 61 nobody wanted to hire him and he's a smart guy somebody finally did hire him he's making 135,000 a year good and how much money did you guys take how much money went into all of this um we put a million into it was this cash or did you take on debt? No, we took everything out. Um, yeah.

So you still owe a million dollars in debt? No, no, no. We don't. Thank God. We only owe, um, we only owe $80,000 in debt. We have a house. Um, it's, um. Did he borrow on the house at all?

No. Okay. No. Oh, Stacey. How long ago was this? Oh, well, we've been in it for about 10 years, 11 years. Yeah. So over the course of that amount of time, it added up to a million. You were just dumping money into it. There's nothing we can get out of this. He put a million in and then they would pay. He was trying to pay and had investors and everything, but people dropped out. It's just

it's been a shit show. So what's your income? Are you working? So I have always been a stay-at-home mom. I raised my kids. I had a special needs child who they said no one ever would graduate, but we actually got him to where he has a skill. He's a welder now, so that's huge.

Good for him, yeah. But all my efforts were put there, so at one time I was capable. So your household income is now $135K. You owe $80K in consumer debt, correct? Yes. Okay. What's your question? In the house.

We own the house. Is it outright, or do you guys owe anything on a mortgage? We own it. We owe $375,000 on it. You owe that. Okay. Yes. And so, of course, we've thought about moving. We've tried to figure out where to move. And God, the housing market is terrible where we're at. And so we're trying to figure out that. I am working part-time. I'm actually in my third time an artist. So I sell pieces for like $3,500 a piece for my art, but there are a few, you know, it's one every two or three months. That's, that doesn't cut it. Sure. And I have applied to over 314 places, 12 interviews and repeat interviews only to not be hired because nobody wants a 55-year-old with no health education.

So I just need to know, do I get a consolidated loan? And put it all – because interest rates are killing us. And I'm optimistic. A consolidated loan isn't going to solve any of your problems. You're just moving the debt around, and they're going to take an average of the rates. So it's not really going to work any miracles here. Your best bet is to use this $135,000 of income you have, live on as little as you can, and throw the rest of this $80,000 until it's knocked out. Just keep going at it and you think it'll make a dent. Yeah. Well, here's the good

news. If you use the debt snowball method, smallest to largest balance, ignore the interest rates. I know that's hard right now because you see how much you're paying. But as you knock out the little debt, you free up a payment. Now take all the margin you were throwing at that, throw it at the next smallest debt. You free up a payment. And you see that as you go downhill, the debt snowball is going to pick up more snow. Stacey, how often can you paint? Because when you said I can sell a painting for $3,500, I mean, that's... If you can sell one a month, that's serious. Yeah, I mean, I'm not kidding. That makes you... Well, I know, and I'm trying desperately to get there. I have literally, you know, I tried to build my own website on my own, did it, and, you know, I've been doing this. I'm not good with social media. I'm not... Well, get connected with your local art communities, art galleries.

Yeah. Do you have paintings sitting waiting to be sold? Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. So it's not a matter of like, okay, gotcha, gotcha. Maybe you could sell prints. I mean, there's a lot of options in the art world where you could make some good money and it sounds like you're talented.

Yeah, it's just... And the jobs you're applying for... I'm not an entrepreneur. Yeah, yeah, no, you're good yeah i it's just in the jobs you're applying i'm not an entrepreneur yeah yeah no you're good stacy i think yeah yeah um what kind of jobs have you been applying for i'm just curious has it just been oh my gosh you name it i've applied so even like administration type roles um everything everything literally i mean everything and um you know what you could, have you looked at online type jobs? Like I just wonder even for like as a virtual assistant, like usually moms that have raised kids can get crap done.

Like they know how to schedule, they know how to run a household. So I even wonder from like a virtual side, you could do a virtual thing and paint and try to kind of get that going. I haven't done that. I have not done that, the virtual assistant. I would look into something like that because a lot of people,

you can even piece together a couple of jobs because some people just need someone for 10 hours a week, you know, and you could get, you know, two or three people that you're helping. And then on the side, how old are your kids? They're grown Now the youngest is still He's 21 and still living at home

Do you have 20 something year olds? Yes Do you have a daughter? No We have no family I'm thinking from a social media perspective Ask one of your sons Any of their girlfriends that they know Or people like friends And jump on the phone and learn some of this I'm thinking from a social media perspective. Ask one of your sons any of their girlfriends that they know or people like friends and

jump on the phone and learn some of this. I'm not kidding. You don't have to grow this crazy account, but getting your paintings out there. Stacey, I really think that $3,500. I've got 450 followers right now. I'm trying to work toward 500 because then I can start getting payments for like affiliate, you know, advertising. Sure.

These are the ideas when you start coming up with, not what's the next piece of debt we can jump to. Because you're going to get out of this, but the only way out is to get out, not to switch it to a different type of loan with slightly lower interest. You guys are your best bet to get out with this amazing income. And that's just going to mean getting to work and living on less. So do a budget with your husband tonight and go, what can we live on? How little can we live on out of this 135 so that we can get out of debt fast? And considering you guys have no retirement, Stacey, you probably will be,

you guys probably will be working for the next probably 10 years or so. So we're going to give you Ken Coleman's material, his assessment. Yes. Find the work you're wired to do. It Coleman's material, his assessment. Yes. Find the work you're wired to do. It comes with his Get Clear Career Assessment. So take that. And it's awesome because it will, as you fill it out, maybe spark ideas for you from a work standpoint that could just kind of get your wheels turning on other opportunities

to get some income in because I think that's going to be your best bet. And I'm so sorry that this happens I mean I know you guys are adults and you guys made the decision and you're reaping the you know the consequences of it but it's really hard oh yes good I'll throw that in there I'll throw that in there too. I have been a little bitter about all this. I would too, Stacey. I would too. But you guys, yeah, as a couple, you know, I mean, that's a hard pill to swallow. It's a hard pill to swallow that you guys. But you know how to save.

You guys had a million dollars at one point. Yeah, I mean, I know we'll make it. Yeah, you will. You will. Well, hang on the line. We'll get you Ken Coleman's material in my contentment journal, and we'll get that out to you, Stacey. But it is. It's a little bit of the grind, and it's swallowing that pill of bitterness

of like, man, what did we do? But, hey, that was in the past, and now you get to choose a different future. I'm choosing hope and choosing confidence. Don't say, who's going to want to hire a 55? I would want to hire Stacey. She sounds very hard working and talented and so you get back out there and you show them what you're made of stacy and call us back when you guys are debt free we can't wait to celebrate with you this is the ramsey show

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I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call in, we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Dan is up next in Chicago. How can we help, Dan? Yeah, I'm a pastor, and most of my ministry I've lived in a home that has been provided by the church, and I'm getting ready to retire, and my wife and I kind of feel like we need to buy a modest home in order to, you know, perhaps gain a little bit of equity and protect us from, you know, rising rents and things like that. That's wise.

I'm sorry? That is wise. I like that. Why? No, it's why. Sorry. There is wisdom in that, Dan. I like that. Okay. So you want to buy a house when you retire next year? Yeah. How much money do you guys have? Well, we're going to have about $2,000 a month after the Medicare deduction and Social Security. We've got about $350,000 in a 403B account. And we've got $50,000 cash.

We don't have any debt. Just didn't know what the right move for us would be. Is it better for us to go ahead and spend the money on rent, or is it better for us to try to find a home that's within our price range and then take on a mortgage? Well, I'll give you the good news and bad news. The great news is you're going to retire with no debt and an emergency fund. The bad news is you don't have much money to put into a house as a down payment to be able to afford the mortgage. Because you said your income is going to be fixed at two grand a month in retirement? Yeah, plus whatever we withdraw out of our 403B. And the 403B at 350, I mean, it's not a massive nest egg that's going to last us, you know, 30 years. And so how

much money can you guys save in the meantime to get a down payment while you still are working? Well, we're saving right now about $1,300 a month. Okay. And I'm planning on working, you know, another 10 or 12 months. Yes, that'll be close to $15,000. Yeah, I mean, have you looked at homes? I know it says Chicago on the board where you're from. I guess a suburb of Chicago. Have you looked at homes and what they're costing? Yeah, we're really in a small town about west of Chicago, and we feel like we can get a more than adequate home for us for, you know, in the $140,000, $150,000 range. Okay.

Yep. I would sit down tonight and, you know, pull up the mortgage calculator and say, hey, if we put, let's say, $50,000 down into a house, we had a $100,000 mortgage, what would that be monthly? Because my concern is if you're living off of $2,000 and you're probably not going to be able to pull a ton off of that $403,000 mortgage, what would that be monthly? Because my concern is if you're living off of 2K and you're probably not going to be able to pull a ton off of that 403B while it's sitting at this stage at 350, because you would decimate it. If you took out 150 from that 403B, I mean, that's a large part of your nest egg that you've unplugged from future compound growth. And so I would sit down to see, does it make sense to rent? Can we rent for, you know, 750 in our area versus the mortgage being,200? That's the kind of math I'd be doing to see how can we live off of this income? Because it's not a lot of income to live off of, just considering the two grand plus a little bit from the 403B.

Yeah. Okay. But you wouldn't say to rent long term though george no long term i'd rather have you in a house yeah right now it's just there's not a ton of money to to throw into the house and just purchase it with cash without just using no yeah and you may not have to purchase it in cash he could put a down payment you put 50 down took a hundred thousand dollar mortgage yep i doubt the payment would be astronomically high but again if you're making two grand and the payment's a thousand bucks, that's a lot of your world just eaten up by the mortgage. Yeah. Well, I didn't know what my options were.

Could you work longer? Could you do an extra year? Well, I could, yeah. I'm not under any pressure to retire or anything like that. I might just, just to give you guys a little more wiggle room, allow your nest egg to grow, allow you to get more cash for the down payment. That would give me some more peace personally. Because you guys could get close to, I mean, if you guys saved for the next two years,

let's say you could save up to 30 grand in just that cashflow that you're living off of, plus the 50 that you have, that gets you close to 50% of a 140 mortgage. You know what I mean? So like your math is, it can compound pretty quick if you do work maybe one more year. Yeah.

And if I were you in your shoes and I would sit down with a financial advisor who can kind of crunch these numbers for you, but I wouldn't be comfortable taking out more than $1,000 or $1,500 a month out of that 403B because you guys might have another 30 years ahead of you that you need to live off of this right and so that's where the numbers come yeah how much are your expenses a month dan for you guys how much do you guys spend right now probably about i don't know 28 to 3 000 something like that okay so yeah so i think what

george was you know saying that 3 000 and that's without paying rent that's right that's right so $3,000, something like that. Okay. So, yeah. So, I think what George was saying, that $3,000. And that's without paying rent. That's right. That's right. So, then, yeah, that's $4,000. Let's pretend that the mortgage was $1,000. So, that means you'll need $4,000 a month. And so, you get the $2,000 that you were saying comes in from Social Security and everything.

And making sure that you can withdraw, again, we're just speaking on round numbers here. Napkin math would say, you know, taking out $2,000 out of that nest egg every single month, you'd probably run out of money while your expenses may be going up later in life. So that's my concern. I don't want you guys to be down to the wire every single year. That's not the kind of retirement I want to have. And so that's where we were saying, pause, work longer, keep stashing away in that nest egg, stash money away for the down payment, and then see where you're at a year or two from now. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate your advice.

Yeah, I hope that helps, Dan. Wishing you the best in retirement. For sure. And that's a common issue that we hear with people that do ministry and housing is provided is like, oh my gosh, that's great. I don't have to pay for rent or a mortgage. And then you get to Dan's age, a retirement age, and there hasn't been an intentional saving towards a house. Yeah. And then you're kind of stuck. So if you're in that spot, here's what I would do if I was in your shoes, whatever you would be paying market rent, I would take that amount and put it away in an investment account for as long as you have that career. So that when you do retire, you go, oh my gosh,

we have 400 grand just allocated for housing. For a house. To go buy a place in cash. And always remember that your housing line item in your budget is usually number one, the most expensive and number two, the most volatile. Because rent especially will always be going up. That's what we've experienced, right, over the last few years. Like it continues to go up. It rarely, if it never, goes down. But 20 years from now, Dan's rent might be four grand. Exactly.

So if you like just say, well, I'm never going to buy a house. I'm going to just be a renter for the rest of my life. Well, that's one expense in your budget that's very expensive and will continue to go up. It's variable. Versus saying, I'm going to buy a home and I'm going to work to pay it off. That's why it's Baby Step 6. We actually met somebody at the break, George. She just paid off her house on Tuesday and someone else had paid off their house that was here for their 40th birthday.

Two in a row. Two houses in a row that were people paid off their house. At very young ages. Yes. And so that's the beauty is that line item again is out of the budget. So retirement has a lot more flexibility. That's right. When you get that house paid off going into retirement. So that's the goal. Rachel, we've got a really fun little assessment on the website right now that helps people figure out if they're staying on track

with the baby steps. So you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. So here's how you get the get started assessment. Go to the show notes of this episode, the description, click on the link titled, are you on track with the baby steps? And you can complete the quiz. Yeah. And this is always helpful because especially if you're new to the show, a lot of people find us on podcast or YouTube and been listening just a little bit, you know, there to know kind of where you stack up against other, other people, you know, other people, other Americans, but also against the plan just to kind of know where am I? Like, how do I even start this process? It helps you really kind of

get a baseline for it. And I think that's always helpful if you're, you know, money's an area for some people they don't really think about. You've never had a plan. Yeah. You're doing 17 things at once. That's right. Yes. But so to get actually a concrete idea of, okay, this is exactly the next thing I need to be doing. It's a great tool. so make sure to check it out can i tell you one of my secret gear grinders oh i can't wait when people say so rachel um we've been doing the baby steps uh just out of order and i go well then you're not doing the baby steps if you're investing and trying to pay off debt and saving and you bought a house while you're in debt i'm like you don't say you're doing the baby steps out of order just tell me you're're doing the baby steps out of order.

Just tell me you're not doing the baby steps. Just tell me you're investing. Just a personal little. A little grudge there, George. You just feel that. You know, it's rare that I'm bothered by something. I'm kidding. George is not uptight at all.

No worries. I don't call it uptight. Not tightly wung. High standards, maybe. We're going to unwind him. Enjoy this Friday. We'll do that after this hour is over. For all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast, it is about to end. But you can listen to the rest of the show.

We've got more to come over on the Ramsey Network app. You can finish the show in a distraction-free experience. So go check out the Ramsey Network app in the App Store, completely free, and you can catch a whole other hour of this. So don't miss it. Click the link in the show notes or go watch the rest of the show in the app for free. We'll see you over there. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour,

and the number to call is 888-825-5225. Let's get right to it. Mallory joins us up first in Kansas City. How can we help, Mallory? Hi, George. Good to be on. So my husband and I were building a residential construction a couple years ago, and our initial builder stole half of our construction funds, which was just shy of $150,000. Can you explain what you mean by stole? Sure. Sorry, can you speak directly on your phone? You're breaking up on us, Mallory. So we secured a residential construction loan through a farm credit institution, and the builder requested 50%

of the funds, and the bank approved it and gave me instructions on how to wire to the builder. Never again. Oh, sorry, Mallory, you're breaking up. So the instructions to wire, and then you wired it over, and then what happened? Oh, man, such a juicy story and you keep breaking up on us okay okay we'll try to come back to you because i want to hear the rest of this one uh let's go to shanice in miami how can we help hi um my name is shanice um i'm 28 years old i was wondering if it was a good idea to get my childhood home at a reverse mortgage with my mom. I'm a little apprehensive about it because the house needs a lot of repairs,

and it would only be me after she stops working to take care of the mortgage. So I'm not too sure if that's a good idea or not. So are you wanting to do this to help mom, or are you wanting to save the childhood home? A little bit of both. My grandma does live with us as well, my little sister. And then we also have, like, a separate house in the back, and we have a tenant, and he pays about $1,000 a month. So you're currently living in the home? Yes.

Okay. And it's you, your daughter, your mom, and your grandmother? Me, my sister, my mom, and my grandmother. Okay. Okay. All right. What's the situation right now with the finances? So I currently make around $5,000 a month.

My mom probably makes about $3,000. My grandma doesn't work. My little sister, unfortunately, doesn't work. And like I said, we have the tenant in the back that pays the thousand. It's a little studio back there. So why the reverse mortgage? So the reverse mortgage happened when I was like super young. It just had been in reverse mortgage this whole time under my grandmother. So my mom bought it up to me saying that she thinks we should buy the house, especially since we've been there forever.

So who owns the house right now? Whose name is on the deed? The quote that we got from the mortgage attorney, it's my mom's and my grandmother's. I'm not too sure if it's just my grandma's or it's like my grandma and my mom's. Okay, because there could be different names on the mortgage versus the deed. I would say it's my grandmother, because the reverse mortgage is under my grandmother, because she's 86. Okay, so no one's been making mortgage payments? No, we've just been paying the taxes.

I think, because I moved out, and then I just moved back in. And so just recently, I just paid the taxes, and I know my mom pays like the flood insurance and stuff like that. Okay. How much is the house worth? How much would you guys buy it for? I'm not too sure because the house was bought when I was like super young by another family member. They just gave it to my grandmother so they can save the house and put it in reverse mortgage. So I was like two or three years old when this house was

bought. But we got a buyout amount from the reverse mortgage and it was $296,000. $296,000. Okay. So you'd have to get a mortgage for $296,000 in order to take over? Yeah. I'm only apprehensive because the house is pretty old. It needs a lot of repairs, but it's pretty in good standing. And like I said, we do have a tenant in the back, but I just don't know if it's a good idea. I don't know that you guys can afford a $300,000 mortgage. Yeah, I agree. Because you've been used to not paying payments, and all of a sudden you're going to tell mom, hey, out of your $3,000 a month, you're going to pay half of this?

How much would she be paying? We would have to split it half and half. I know the tenant will, you know, obviously be able to help out with what he's paying us, but it would just be me and my mom is 56, so she's going to stop working soon. Yeah, can I tell you my real worry, Shanice? This is all going to be on you. You're going to be the one having to foot all the bills for this entire family, and it's going to crush you. So I would not move forward with this. I would, honestly, I'd probably get out of this whole situation. I'd probably sell the house for what you can get for it,

take the equity, and put it into something better without the reverse mortgage that makes more sense. For grandmother and mom, whoever's name's on the deed. Yeah. What's the long-term play here? Is everyone going to live together forever? I wouldn't mind because the house is big enough. And like I said, we do have like a little apartment in the back that, you know, we can separate if I do decide to start my own family, you know, get married. But yeah, I don't know.

Like that's future. So I'm not too sure. I want you to build toward that future and this reverse mortgage is moving you backwards it's in the name yeah so it's eating up the equity instead of getting you out of it I was kind of sad because my mom really wants to get it and I would want to too because we've been there forever um but like I said I don't know yeah obviously and I think yep and this is one of those moments Shanice, that understanding what your emotions and your heart are wanting versus your head and stupid math that doesn't have emotions, right? And it's just the math. And so I think that there is, and everyone deals with this in some level of their life

with some situation where you think, oh my gosh, that hurts so much because it's my childhood home. Our memories are there. I want, I hear you. I want to be able to save this. I would love for this to be in our family for generations for what it's been. But sadly, on the other end, with the math in the mind, it is that, you know, because decisions were made that were outside of your control, you were a little girl when that happened. This is the reality that we're in. And for you, Shanice, to again, honor your family. And we want, we're all about helping and loving and being there. But also for you, as a woman to say, okay, what kind of life am I going to build also for myself,

to get yourself in a position where you have the ability maybe to reach over and help mom and grandma down the road, right? But you can't do that if you're in a situation that's not great financially. And that's what this ends up being. And I hear you saying it almost could be a muddy pit with the amount of repairs and everything in it. And so again, it's that competing idea between your emotions and your mind. And as adults, I think we have to make decisions. That's not always our hearts. You know, you have to follow what is wise. And again, it doesn't feel good. And as Dr. John Deloney always talks about, like, grieve it too. Be sad about it because it is sad. You know, you want to be able to do something but wisdom is saying

it's just it's not wise financially for you because I also agree with George that you're going to be the one stuck with this and so how do I put into words of how to explain to my mom because we've been actively saving for it um I have 10k she has 10k so we're just trying to figure out you know what's the next steps now, but how do I break down? Cause I haven't been able to find the words to tell her. I don't think this is a good idea. Yeah. I mean, I would be as honest and as kind and gentle as possible. And I would tell her just what you just told us that I, I mean, I, it breaks my heart and I even hate to have this idea in my head, but I I'm really leaning towards this possibly not being a great idea. And so,

Mom, together, let's look at different plans for each of us to get us in a good spot so that you can retire and have dignity and have margin with your money. And I want to be able to do the same as well so we can help grandmother. It's all out of not bitterness, but all out of what is wise for the future. But I'm so sorry, Shanice. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you're hanging out with us on the Ramsey Network app, we answer your questions through that app.

And we're going to take one right now from Samantha. Rachel, would you do the honors for us? I don't have sheet I'm a boy scout I'm always prepared so sorry a little we have a lot of sheets on the desk just so you guys know all right here we go my husband and I got married earlier this year and we're both in our early 40s we did premarital counseling through our church that included financial planning and i thought we shared a lot of core values he brought a mortgage and a car payment to the marriage i brought a mortgage on a rental property that i co-own with my brother in another state my husband without any discussion told me today that he will not combine finances with me until i'm off the mortgage of the house that i co-own with my brother. He said that he needs to protect himself because it is not in an LLC.

My brother and I are already in the process of putting the house into an LLC, but I feel like my husband made this, basically this decision under the guise of protecting himself, which is fundamentally at odds with us being married. I don't know how to move forward in my marriage. I feel hurt and judged. What do I

do? Wow. This is, it's far more relational. The finances, that's a symptom of what's happening here. He's uncomfortable with the fact that she went into debt with family. But he knew it ahead of time. He knew ahead of time, but now as you said, without discussion, now there's this ultimatum. Yeah, it does. It feels a little harsh on his end. I mean, I totally understand his logic, but if something were to go down with the brother and the brother doesn't pay and she gets stuck with it, they're going to be, you know, as a married couple, be stuck with it.

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, so I think it would be wise for her to get out of it with the brother. I wouldn't. I'm wondering, can they just, is it really worth hanging on to at this point? Can they sell it? They both take their shares. and if she wants to do more real estate investing do that with your spouse down the line but i do think it's a little bit of a jerk move for him to be like

sorry i'm not combining my finances with yours until like that yeah i wouldn't i don't like that i say let's figure out a plan for what we're doing with this mortgage yes and hanging out hold it over your head like again without any discussion let's let's circle that george on this sheet of paper that's the issue that's the marriage issue he just showed up and said we're not combining finances to get rid of this mortgage yeah that's not a relationship like be curious ask questions think about plan a b and c and i mean do you know what i mean like that like i don't like that that that's a that's a um that level of um uh i don't know what you call it dominant decision making without any discussion yeah caring about her at all in this uh makes me worried for the marriage

i don't like that so his attitude how you communicate in the marriage. I don't like that. So his attitude. It's not how you communicate in a marriage. No, no. Don't be a jerk. I get what he's saying. Like, it makes sense. But man, if you're going to come into other bumps in the road in marriage, and if it's this, I'm making decisions without you to protect myself, and there's no discussion, I don't like that.

Not good. Let's approach it with a little more, some calm energy and go, hey, I know you have this house with your brother with this mortgage. It feels like it could be messy. Let's try to figure out a plan to get out of this situation.

Yes, I'm not comfortable with it because of A, B, and C, this could happen. And if it does, it puts us at risk and I don't think it's wise. And that's my fear. Here's some solutions. Yeah, here's kind of what's going on with me. Tell me what are you thinking? Like, what do you see in this, right? I don't know. Maybe that's my solutions and yeah here's here's the kind of what's going on with me okay tell me what are you thinking like what do you see in this right i don't know maybe that's

common sense i don't know you make too much sense sometimes rachel it's not how humanity works but thank you for the question samantha what do you do uh you sit down and tell him exactly what you've told us that you feel hurt and judged and always in these kind of conflicts it is on you to speak about what you are thinking and feeling not what you did this and pointing and always in these kinds of conflicts, it is on you to speak about what you are thinking and feeling, not what you did this and pointing at, even though it was his actions that are causing this, but you own you and say, you don't appreciate that.

And that it doesn't feel like it's a great, you know, marital moment for you all. And then accept, you know what? I shouldn't have done this. This was a messy thing to do to get in real estate

with my brother with debt and all these things. Own your part. Yeah, that the situation isn't wise. And maybe you decide, hey, yeah, I do need to sell this or get out of this. I'll have the conversation with him

to see if he's going to refinance and take it on his own or if we need to sell it completely. But here's the game plan for us to get out of this. Yep, exactly. Wow. Hope that helps. All right. get out of this. Yep, exactly. Wow. Hope that helps. All right. Judge Rachel has spoken. Sorry, Samantha. Dan is up next in Tampa. How can we help

Dan? Hey, George. Hey, Rachel. Good to talk to you. Doing great. How are you guys doing? Great. What's going on? Oh, it is open enrollment season. Yeah, buddy. A question. Yeah. Exciting stuff. Um, so my wife and I are in a baby step seven. Um, my wife gets really good benefits through her work. So we're definitely going to take advantage of, of her benefits. Currently I have an HSA set up that I've been contributing to. So I'm contemplating, do I keep the HSA going on my side while also using her benefits or, you know, stop doing the HSA at this point? So do you have, are you double insured right now? No, currently I just do the HSA, but starting in 25, I'm going to go on to her benefit plan. Okay. And what is her health insurance like?

Is that a high deductible health plan with an HSA or something different? No, it's more like a PPO. It's really good coverage. I've actually been on it before in the past, and I wanted to get off so I could get an HSA again just to kind of, you know, start a little fund over there to eventually cover health care expenses down the road. So I got off the plan, and then now we have a second child. So it's the same cost for us to add me to it as the second child. So you're going on a family plan. Exactly. Yep. Yep.

Okay. And you're saying, Hey, should I keep my current plan through my employer? Exactly. Cause you'll, you'll have to pay for a high deductible health plan in order to keep the HSA, correct? I would, yep. So I don't know that it's worth paying to have double health insurance just to have the HSA, because you'll still have the funds in there. You just won't be able to contribute to it. Yes, yeah. So I think that's fine. I mean, the HSA is a great benefit if you have it, if it makes sense for your family, but it's not a, like, you've got to have this in your life, especially if you're already, I'm sure her plan costs a pretty penny to have that family plan, correct? Or is the employer covering it all?

They cover a good portion of it. I would say it's cheaper than, you know, a lot of other benefit plans. They take care of their employees. So good plan. Then I would just, I would get off of other benefit plans. They take care of their employees. So good plan. Then I would just, I would get off of it in 2025. Yeah, I would do the cheaper option, which is probably going to be the PPO with your wife. And you guys are in baby step seven. You're going to be able to build wealth and cashflow medical expenses and save for the future. And the HSA is just one way to do that. And it does have great benefits, but I wouldn't pay double for insurance just for the pleasure.

Yep. Not worth it okay good deal i appreciate the uh the insights because uh you know i think we have to enroll by next week so okay it's crunch time you know hr is there i do too i haven't done mine yet us too hr just got up on stage dan and they were like you guys better select this or else you won't have health insurance i know they really didn't even know it was open enrollment i hosted with him yesterday do we have to tell this guy everything i know and he's like i got to do health insurance like yeah uh-huh you got one more week how has he made it this far two phds very successful his wife that's right she keeps she keeps that train on the track she's

keeping the organizational flow feng shui of the family otherwise deloney would be i don't know in a tent somewhere in the woods making it can't find his way that's wild uh rachel i want to do a quick we didn't really explain hsa so i want to give the people out there oh yeah just a quick explainer it's one minute you will survive it this is a health savings plan this is the most exciting part of your day everyone buckle up i weirdly i love talking about hSAs to the point where people are like, are you okay? Do you work for an insurance company? I don't. I just, it's one of these, like, did you know? It's like my little party trick. Yeah, give it to it. So if you have a high deductible health plan, you have access to an HSA. You can use that. It has triple tax

advantage. So the money goes in tax-free, it grows tax-free, and you can withdraw it tax-free for qualified medical expenses. Here's the kicker. You can invest in the HSA once you hit a certain threshold. So let's say a thousand bucks is in the account, anything beyond that, you can invest like a 401k in mutual funds. And at 65, it becomes like a traditional 401k. You can use it for anything, but you will have to pay taxes if it's not for medical expenses. So you can take it out, but it was all before tax that was put in. So the most advantage is for medical expenses. But it kind of becomes an extra 401k, and the limits are pretty high for a family.

You're talking over $7,000 a year. You can stash extra money in there. And what Dave Ramsey does is he says, I'm going to cash flow my medical expenses, not touch the HSA to let compound growth do its thing. And it becomes this bonus retirement account. And it keeps on growing. Extra kicker. Oh, go George. If you just say if you cash flow the expense, but you save your receipt, you can reimburse yourself 20 years from now. No way. Yes. I'm telling you. Okay. This is why I'll put lights up my world. Well done, George. There you go. There's been your nerdery for this segment. This is The it lights up my world. Well done, George. There you go. There's been your nerdery for this segment. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You've heard about it. We are almost sold out. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is setting sale March 22nd through 29th, 2025. It's a premium Caribbean cruise. We're going to Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. And it's all-inclusive, of course, food, room service. We got top-of-the-line restaurants and world-class content from the Ramsey personalities and some

very special guests. We got singers Deanna Carter, Stephen Curtis Chapman, comedian Trey Kennedy, world-class chef Manit Shohan. and of course you get the fitness center, the pickleball course, the hot tubs, the lounges. I'm selfishly excited. It's gonna be fun. Because it's gonna feel like, yes, we're at work, but it's also kind of a vacation. We're celebrating with all the Ramsey fans. Party work. Exactly. Pull and read. Work. That's my kind of trip. It's gonna be great. So if you are debt free and you want to celebrate with us that means you're like that baby step four five six seven some of y'all need a vacation you're still couponing all right it's time to go on a real

trip go and enjoy not like well rachel we did that one no you need a real trip yeah and so and this is a nice cruise ship too some cruise ships you're always like dave wouldn't darken the door of a entry-level cruise ship. He's bougie now. He's bougie, Dave. Redneck bougie. It's going to be nice. Dave loves this ship. This is to his standards, which means it's plenty good for me. So join us, ramsaysolutions.com slash cruise. We've still got a few candidates. Is Whitney and Mia coming? Whitney's coming. Mia, I don't think is. Okay. I want Whitney to enjoy it. A baby on a cruise ship is, yeah, difficult.

Just babysitting on a cruise ship, different than enjoying it. I would agree with that. We're going to try to find some childcare. All right. So that she deserves it. Mom of the year right there. Absolutely. Is Winston coming?

Winston's going to come for half of it. Wow. And the kids are not coming. See, there you go. You want to enjoy it too. Yeah. I mean, like, yeah. What a good excuse. Kids, you have school. Mom and dad need to go to work on a cruise ship that's great

i'll be uh playing winston and pickleball i imagine uh probably will be happening yes i agree maybe for charity i don't know put some money put some money on it make it interesting i know it'll be good all right mallory's up next in Kansas City. How can we help? We're back. We're back to Mallory. Back to Mallory, guys. Because your phone was a little bit... Yes, Mallory. We couldn't really hear you. Okay, are you there? Hi. Yes, thank you. Clear as the day, Mallory. Let me recap.

You took out a residential construction loan, and then you wired $150,000 to the builder, and then what? And then we never heard from the builder again. They ghosted you? Did they disappear? Was it a fake builder?

Oh, no, he was a real person. So he had been scamming people to this tune all across the country. So by the time we made a police report on it, there was already a warrant out for his arrest from another state that had been sitting unanswered for four months. Have they caught him? We caught him. Police didn't. Will you give us the story? Rachel wants us to turn into a Netflix true crime series. This is my, like, this is, this is the book. I'm telling you, it would be, it has a great plot for it. So yeah, I mean, we made a police report. They said, yeah, we've been looking for this guy for four months. No luck.

I did my own sleuthing and found him racing sprint cars on a dirt racetrack four hours from where we reside. And so I got on the phone with three different law enforcement agencies to coordinate his arrest and transfer back to the state in which the warrant was issued. You are an American patriot, Mallory. That is incredible. Also, you should maybe go into law enforcement. You ever thought about it? I've thought about it. It just doesn't pay. Oh, yeah.

Well done, Mallory. Not right now, anyway. I appreciate that. It's one of my dreams to help solve a crime. You want to be Mallory when you grow up. I do want to be Mallory. Okay, so. What's the latest i mean i'm

guessing you're not going to get the money back did he spend it just done um so we are still trying to locate it um there is a federal indictment on him coming so his assets are largely seized and what have you so we have not gotten our money back um yeah the lender um that approved the draw and gave me the instructions to wire it to this guy took no culpability for their approval. They didn't verify the invoice that he said these funds were for. I imagine the bank has to do their due diligence before they allow you to go through with wiring this level of money. You would think you would think. Yeah yeah. So we requested a loan restructure. They denied us. I requested like, hey, give me 90 days. Can I get myself on my feet, figure out what I'm going

to do here? And they said no. Our options were to show $150,000 worth of construction to continue using the loan funds or to pay back the $150,000 in cash. And you have no way to prove that there's any construction being done because it was fraud. I'm surprised. Yeah. And that they still have you on the line to pay this money. Yes. I got an attorney involved in everything and got nowhere. I imagine the bank just at some point goes, we have to write this off. There's no collateral here. This was a fraudulent transaction. Yeah, they won't though. Okay. So you have to work with your lawyer. How can we help today? I wish I could do something. Yeah. So we, what I'm, what we ended up doing, we emptied our retirement accounts. We, at the time I had a vehicle that was

paid off. We used that as collateral to secure another personal loan. And then we've borrowed several thousand dollars from family. We just moved into our house about two or three weeks ago. Is this a new build? Yes. With the legitimate builder? Yes. So we did end up finding a different local builder and he has been very gracious and has kind of helped us with subcontractors and what have you. And he started, gosh, about 11 months ago. So we just moved in about three weeks ago. Okay. So how much debt are you guys in now with this new house? So with this new house, the mortgage on it is for 341. We've emptied our retirement. We've, you know, everything is maxed out. Prior to this, all we had was our mortgage and my student loans,

but now everything is maxed. How much debt do you have outside of the 341 mortgage? Probably about $3,000 in debt, aside from student loans. You said $50? Yes. $50,000. Okay. And so your next plan of attack is to get rid of the consumer debt and then work on the mortgage once you have the emergency fund or what? Yes. Yes. So we had previously in 2022 gotten to the point where we were contributing 15% to our retirement. Like I said, all we had was our mortgage and my student loans,

and then this whole thing happened. So we had to then max everything back out. So I guess my question is, do I try to refinance? Of course, my credit is not the best right now, given what we've been through, and pull out some equity to maybe replenish some of our retirement, pay back some of that consumer loan, or do I just kind of keep trying to chip away at it as is? Are you talking about 401k withdrawals? What did you guys do? We emptied our 401s. So straight up withdrawal. So you can't just put it back in. It's not like a 401k loan. Correct. Correct. So if I'm you, I'm going to just follow the baby steps. I'm going to get

the thousand bucks saved. I'm guessing you guys have that. Attack this 50k of consumer debt. Get your emergency fund saved up. Any savings I would liquidate to knock out this debt fast beyond the thousand bucks. I'm guessing you guys have a great income. What is it? Our household income is just over 200k a year. Amazing. So if there was an emergency, we could pause the baby steps and cash flow it with our next check. So I just want to give you some peace about that. So use any other savings, tackle the consumer debt, get the emergency fund back in place, then begin investing. And anything beyond that, we can start chunking at this house. Okay. How old are you two? Well, I will be 35.

Okay. So here's the good news. You guys have time to rebuild. I know it stinks. Don't crunch the numbers on what your retirement would have been if you didn't withdraw it. That's just going to add pain

and insult to injury. But then crunch the numbers and go, okay, we're going to be out of the consumer debt. We're going to have the emergency fund. And within two years, we're back to investing 15% and attacking the mortgage. So from 37 to 67, that gives us 30 years of chunking away a whole lot of money with your high six-figure income. You're going to be okay.

Yeah. I have another question. So when I am referencing in 2022 that we had all of our debt aside from our mortgage and my student loans paid off, what I'm classifying as our mortgage is an RV loan. We sold our house, traveled the country in an RV, saved and all of that. And so our RV was our mortgage. So now that we've moved into our house, we no longer have the need for this RV. I've looked into like a voluntary surrender situation for that. I'm not fond of the terms there.

Obviously, foreclosure is not anyone's best choice, but should I treat that as consumer debt as well? I'd sell it. I'm sure you're underwater on it, right? Is that the problem? Yeah, we're like 30 grand underwater. I would try to sell it for top dollar and come up with a difference in cash and get rid of it ASAP. But I would not voluntarily surrender it. Don't do that, yeah. Don't get a repo. Good for now.

Thanks, Mallory. I'm so sorry. What a story. Goodness gracious. And you guys are climbing out. You're resilient. I'm proud of you. I hope you get your money back, and I hope this guy does some time on top of it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, our scripture of the day, Psalm 20, verse 4. Let God grant what is in your heart and fulfill all your plans. Mark Twain once said, 20 years from now, you'll be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Not bad, as long as it doesn't involve debt. That's my caveat to Mark. Oh, you tell Mark Twain. It feels like this is Mark's version of YOLO. You're wiser than Mark. This is some YOLO from Mark. I don't know if I like that behavior, but it's a good reminder. You need some of it, George. No regrets. That's what it is. All right.

Taylor is up next in Jacksonville, Florida. How can we help you today, Taylor? Hey, George and Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? I just have a quick question. I was divorced in 2009.

There was no alimony or child support. But in the divorce agreement, my ex was supposed to hold $50,000 for college funds and an interest bearing account for our son. Recently, my son has decided to go to college and we were talking about how to pay for college, my ex and I. And he told my son that he could take out loans. It's a community college. And so I wasn't happy with that because he's supposed to be having funds in an interest-bearing account. Yeah, where's the money? All of these years. I don't know, but my ex convinced my son to not pursue the money and said he'd pay him for any loans that he took out in the future. And more recently...

This guy clearly is not a man of his word, Taylor. Yeah. So why did your son trust him to go, okay, I guess I'll take all this debt. Because it's his dad. I mean, he's a teenage kid. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I guess he's just like, okay, dad said he'd pay the loan why not pay it now does he not have the money i don't know i mean he and then he said

he would give him 12 000 only towards college and whose job is it to enforce the divorce decree well that's the thing i mean right now the money the money, I think, would be worth $80,000 to $100,000 after all these years. Can you go to the judge? Yeah, I would have to take him back to court. But my son asked me not to pursue it because of his dad's stress and life situation. Oh, my goodness. You know, his dad does have a tendency to escalate quickly. Well, I guess my question is, do I does have a tendency to escalate quickly. Well.

I guess my question is, do I pursue it? Do I not pursue it? Do I drop it? Does he have money, Taylor? Does your ex have money? He does. He does. To be able to pay for it?

I mean, I appreciate your son's concern for him. But as a, you know, 16, 17, 18-year-old, they don't get to make decisions on these adult-type things. So even though I understand his concern, it would, yeah, I would not make a decision based on what your son is requesting. And I mean, have you, for like attorney fees and all of it, do you know how much you would be paying to fight this? Well, it says in the divorce agreement that if anyone violates it, any attorney fees would be paid by the one found.

Booyah. I mean, I would. It would be one thing if he's completely broke and he has no money, you're not going to get anything from him. But if he has money, and this was part of the agreement legally. Yeah. Yeah. He, I mean, legally he has to do this. Have you had a conversation with your ex about this and said hey listen this is what the decree says you need this where is this money how are we going to pay for his college and if you don't I'm going to fight for this I'm not going to let my son go into fifty thousand dollars of debt with your empty promise that you're going to pay it off later when it was your responsibility did it say in the agreement how much he was supposed to be putting towards this

all of it yeah the whole 50,000 so he had a 50,000 lump sum okay lump sum in in an interest bearing account how long ago was this 2009 2009 i mean just basic math would say if he put this in a 529 at 50 grand every about seven years that money would have doubled right so in 2016 it should have been 100k right so yes by 2023 you're talking 200k i would say i would say it's worth fighting i would take it to court i know that's not the fun answer and it's going to cause more you, just strife in the relationship with your son and the ex. But this is what's right for your family and for your son. And it's what is legally in a document.

Yeah, this isn't you being like, well, I hate to be that person. You should be paying for his car and it just comes out of nowhere. No, this was part of this. I mean, you guys have been, yeah, I mean, 09, it's almost 15 years. And this is what he was supposed to be doing. And I did consult with two lawyers just to make sure. I mean, I knew what I signed at the time. And they said, oh, yeah, he's a trustee.

He's liable. Yeah, my guess is he took the 50K, never put it in a college fund, spent it, and went, well, I'll replenish it later. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Does that sound like him? Yeah. Okay. out yeah does that sound like him yeah yeah i would take him to court and i would um and i would have a conversation with your son also of just that we're not going down the path of you taking

out loans and your dad's repaying like that's not gonna that's not gonna be an option yeah does your son know that this was the agreement yeah and he's not at all frustrated that dad didn't do what he said he was going to do? That there's zero dollars now for college instead of 200 grand? Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, there's frustration.

There's sadness. There's, you know. But he just doesn't want to see any more conflict. It's heartbreaking. He's been through enough. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

That's his point i feel that i would try to do it as amicably as amicably as possible and not involve the son i mean i wouldn't you know i would keep it very separate um let it be between you and the and your ex don't you don't need to fight in front of him but this is an adult conversation yep for sure that that riles me up yes i'm so sorry taylor that's And that's exhausting going back through and having to kind of re-dig all that. Re-hash all the conflict. That's very hard. All right.

Let's take another one from Chuck in Cincinnati. What's going on, Chuck? Hi. My wife is 69, and she started collecting her Social Security at age 66 when she was available to do that but she has been working for a public business in Ohio and has been putting money into her Ohio public employees retirement program when we talked with the Social Security, we asked if her public thing was going to reduce the amount of money that she was getting from Social Security, and they said that no, because she had 40 quarters that she was paying into the Social Security, that she would be

invested in that. Now, she started collecting from her opers as of January of this year, and then we just got in October a letter from Social Security saying that because she was collecting the Social Security earlier and they didn't know about whatever, that they said that we had been overpaid by about $3,700, that they want us to return that money by February. My question is, they seem to not really know, you know, from what they had said earlier to what they said in early October. And then we got another letter about two weeks after the first letter saying, oh, the amount that we just told you was wrong. And I'm just not sure that the security really even knows what they're doing. It's going to end up reducing the amount of how much she's going to collect per month

by about $400, $450 per month. And I just wonder what do I need to do to try to rebut what they're trying to tell us? I mean, I would be documenting everything. Have you been doing that? Who you talk to, what they said, what the amounts were, and then file appeals with them. And you might need to work with an attorney who's familiar with this to actually fight it if there's nothing they can do

and it's really worth the fight for you. Yeah. How much would you owe right now if you owe back? Is it the $3,700? Is that the latest? Yes. Okay. Yes. Do you owe right now if you owe back? Is it the $3,700? Is that the latest? Yes. Okay. Yes. Do you guys have other retirement check? Oh, yes. Yeah. So do you need this money or is it gravy? It's kind of gravy. Our house is paid off. We don't know anything. Okay. Then I would fight it. And if you want to go down the path of using an attorney to do it after all

the appeals and everything you can do, I wish we could just click our fingers and make it all better. Yeah, but for $3,400, it may not be worth it, depending on if you have a big... Juice may not be worth the squeeze on this one. If you have a big nest egg. I might just go, this is just governments being inept. It's a disaster. It's so frustrating. That's why we tell people, don't rely on Social Security. It's social

insecurity, and it's a nightmare for reasons just like this, Chuck. Sorry you're dealing with this, but I'm glad that you don't need the money and that you've got another nest egg you've prepared for yourself. That's the way to do it. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Rachel Cruz, all the folks in the booth, and you, America. We'll be back before you next time.