The Ramsey Show - App - You Paid the Stupid Tax! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. He is a number one best-selling author and the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. Be sure and check out all of it. In the meantime, you can call us right here, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. Be sure and check out all of it. In the meantime, you can call us right here,

and we'll talk at 888-825-5225. Natalie is with us in Portland, Maine. Hi, Natalie. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So this is crazy that you picked up my call because I've been listening to you every day. I am 26 and I'm about $150,000 in debt. And I'm just dreaming, trying to figure out how can I change my life?

How can I get out of this debt? I just feel like I'm stuck. So I just really need your advice on how I get out of this financial mess. And I think housing is a big part of my budget that I really can't afford right now. Hmm. Okay. What are you making? So I actually just got a new job and I'm making 55 base and I'm in sales, um, medical sales.

So I'm going to be able to get commission. Great. So you think it'll be like $100,000 with your commission? I really hope so, because that would make a significant impact on me that I think. Absolutely. I would with my boyfriend as well. Okay. What is the $150,000 in debt?

So $88,000 of it is student loans. My monthly payment's fixed and it's not insane. That's about $105 a month. But the credit cards is really where I got into trouble and I had to move unexpectedly. So they just crept up and now I'm in a spot where I can pretty much only pay the minimum on everything. How much do you owe on credit cards? I would say about $32,000. Okay. And what's the rest? Car? Yeah, I have a car payment. How much is your car debt? It's about, I just got it under $10,000. Okay. That does not total up to $150,000. You're missing about $20,000. I'm missing another $20,000.

Okay, sorry. Then I'm probably... It's okay. $10,000 on a car, $32,000 on credit cards, $88,000 on student loans. That's $120,000. And then I guess I have more credit card debt than that. So you have more like 52,000 in credit card debt? Yeah.

Okay. I'm sorry. I'm looking at all the numbers here, but I would say it's a little bit less than 150, but it's definitely between 120 and 150. And then my boyfriend also has like some stuff in collections and I have some medical debt. You guys have not combined finances, right? Not completely.

What is that? Are you guys just splitting rent or something? We pretty much have a bill account and he puts money in there and I put money in there every time we get paid. And now we just really have nothing extra. Everything goes to bills and we're just splitting everything 50-50. And because our rent's pretty expensive, we just don't have any option to not be combining finances at this point. So it sounds like you have combined your finances.

Yeah, for the most part. You put all your income, both of you put all your income into one account and pay both the bills yeah that's the definition of combining finances okay what's your rent how much are we talking here uh it's twenty two hundred dollars a month so that's about $1,100 between the two of you? Yeah. Well, they don't know. All right. There's... What were you making before you took this new job?

$52,000. So you got a slight raise plus commission. How long before you start getting commissions? My first commission check is going to be on the 26th, so in a couple weeks or a week from now. Okay, so you're going to get commissions almost immediately. That's good. Mm-hmm. good okay all right

my guess is is that you guys have been floundering like this for some time because you're ever since we moved i'm sorry i would say ever since we moved about a year ago moved from where um just another town we had to move out of our apartment and my rent was pretty much locked in um at like a thousand dollars a month and then the rent went up here and doubled everything doubled so if you were broke why did you move to where your rent doubled um because the landlord was selling the building so we didn't have a choice did you move to where your rent doubled? Because the landlord was selling the building so we didn't have a choice. You had a choice to stay in the town where the rent was cheaper.

No, it really wasn't. It was only cheaper because of when I started renting the apartment. Oh, I see. Yeah. Number one, we do not find people prospering winning with money building wealth being in control who combine finances with people that they're not married to okay do not combine your finances anymore you have your income and your bills

period if you're going to act like you're married get married if you're not married do not combine your finances if you want to split the rent each of you put in 1100 bucks and have a roommate that's your business but i can't find any data in 35 years of doing what i do that says that people shacking up playing house acting like they're married when they're not married actually prosper none of them do you included your financial life sucks you're having no fun lots of stress lots of fear i think the plan would be to get married we're very serious yeah that's not really something that we can afford bullcrap you'd already be married you'd already be married go get married go get married tomorrow you don't need a $100,000 wedding.

I know. I wish I could, but obviously I can't even pay my bills right now. Okay, but I mean, obviously you can get married, right? It doesn't cost anything to get married. Does it solve the financial problem? No, it solves the whole situation where now you have a husband and wife that are working together to fix everything you all are playing with this and it's not going to work i don't have any data points in any of the experience that we have or any of the research we have that says what you're doing

is going to work so you know you guys think this is working it's not working you just sort of kinda are acting like we might sorta be married you got to stop it so anyway you do what you want to do kiddo but that's that's at the core of this so you guys either need to get married by saturday or you need to break your accounts apart by saturday choose one of the two then what we're going to do is start listing your debts smallest to largest you're going to work like a maniac all you're going to do is start listing your debts smallest to largest. You're going to work like a maniac. All you're going to do is work and live on nothing. You don't get to go out to eat.

You don't get to go on vacation. And you work three jobs or you work your current job so much that the commissions stack up really high. And we're going to start paying these credit cards off a little bit at a time and cut them up tonight. It's time to have plastic surgery right now. Okay. You've got to get scared enough and disgusted enough to change. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. So I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or

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Thank you for joining us. If you're thinking about buying a home or selling a home in this weird real estate market you definitely need a high quality high octane real estate agent in your corner if you want to know who we have vetted who we coach and spend time with to make sure they do it the ramsey way and that they are real high producers like not somebody just got their license last week, but happens to be your friend. Oh, yuck. No, let's get an absolute pro that sells 30 to 300 houses a year. Go to Ramsey trusted real estate agents. Ramsey solutions.com slash agent is how you'll find for free the Ramsey trusted agents in your area, and then you can select from among them who best to help you

with your next real estate transaction. Kim is with us. Kim is in Cincinnati. Whoops, whoops, whoops, whoops, whoops. What am I doing? Where is she? There's Kim. Kim is in Cincinnati.

Hi, Kim. How are you? Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Dave, this one's mainly for you. You have adult children. My husband and I are, it's that time of the coming to update our will, potentially change some things to payable on death, etc. We have two young adult growing children, and one party thinks that to suit everything to the children, they'll be fine, they'll know how to handle it, they'll make a decision.

One is a little concerned that that might be a little too much, number one. And number two, even though they're living pretty frugal lives, if they're not doing some of the basic steps that we took to get us where we are. I just don't know if that would be in their best interest. So kind of wanted to...and then you had a call a couple months ago. It was either with Ken or John where it was about, you know, parents trying to control adult children. That is not the case. I actually want to set them up for the best case scenario and have this be a blessing to them.

So I wanted to know your thoughts. More money in anyone's life causes them to be more of what they are, good and bad. Disorganized person becomes chaotic and completely disorganized. A generous person becomes generous, and it's very visible. An angry person becomes more angry. A depressed person becomes more depressed. A kind person and gentle person becomes kinder and more gentle. And so on. And so on.

I just didn't, yes, thank you, but I just didn't know of plopping a couple million into a 30-year-old's hand. There's nothing wrong with that if they have the character to carry it is what I'm saying. But if they're exhibiting problems, if they're prone to overspending and you plop a couple million in their hand, they're going to overspend. Sure, yeah, it's not so much that, but just for example, like they're not even putting, they're putting very, very low percent

into retirement for themselves. Why? So, because that's what they're choosing to do. And they've seen us, and they saw how we had nothing for several, several years, and how finally our behavior has finally paid off. I mean, we never thought we would get to where we were. But by following the steps and working hard and having time. Whatever it is that they're doing right, they will do more of it.

Whatever it is that they're doing wrong, they will do more of it when you leave them money. And so if they're doing more wrong than right, you are not blessing them by leaving them a couple million dollars because you're going to cause them to magnify the bad behavior if it's minor bad behavior if your husband thinks that oh leaving him a couple million dollars they'll suddenly become smart and they were dumb no they won't they'll become dumber no that isn't the case they're very i mean they have good heads on their shoulders how old are they right now 30 30 29 and 30 and you you guys are? I think it's mid-50s. Okay.

And you're not going to die tomorrow, right? No, but if we would both die, you know, we need to change some things so that it doesn't all go through a wheel and all that. We want to have some payable on death accounts. We've explained to them, you know, that the Roth doesn't,

they can keep that and that can be transferable on death versus a traditional, how they would have to pull that out. I believe it's within 10 years and be taxed on that and things like that. They know the basics. They don't know our total net worth. But like I said, just the example, I think, and I don't expect everybody to do the side hustles and to work as many hours as I do, but when the basic thing of not even putting 10% or 15% back for yourself, those little things, because I have learned

and I have exhibited how that can change your life. It made you a multimillionaire. Yes. Yeah. Okay, so you brought that up twice. Is that the only thing they're doing that you think is irresponsible? Yeah, pretty much because even their emergency funds, they don't even have them in a high-yield savings account,

just little things like that. And I feel like I've said all I can say without really touching the relationship. Oh, you probably have. Right. Okay, so their emergency fund is where? Just in a regular savings account. And let me preface, too. They both have no debt other than their very modest homes.

Okay. So they're following the basic principles that way. It's just they're missing the chance for compounding and for growth by not just being a little bit more disciplined. Both of them. Yes, sir. In different ways, but yes, sir. And I don't want to sound like if we sit down and say, okay, we'd like to have a talk that it sounds like I'm trying to control their everyday life and budget, or it'd be a threat. We're not leaving you everything if you don't change your ways,

because I just don't think I will be able to deliver that well in a way that they're going to interpret. This is really, I mean, I know they know that I care and we love them. We're very close, but I don't want to do anything. And so I've obviously want to leave a larger portion to charity than my husband does and also we have it set up where now that a portion is there any strain between you and their their married partners the in-laws well i don't think so we've always asked them to to communicate openly with us so that things, you know,

don't go unsaid and then grow and cause hurt. And we have grands, and then I don't know how much to specify goes to the grands versus the parents. Okay, so are you asking me what I would do? I think just because you have adult children, if you think I'm kind of on the right track, do you feel like that my hesitation is... I think your concerns are valid, but not enough of a concern. I didn't hear anything here that gave me such pause

that I would not leave the kids the money. Oh, I'm not saying not leave them money. I'm saying all of it. I don't need to leave it to charity. Well, we're going to be part of it to charity anyway. Okay, do whatever you want to. That's fine. I don't have any desire to do that.

In terms of in your situation, I don't hear anything that says that they have invalidated their right to manage millions of dollars. It's not optimal what they're doing, but it's not misbehavior. I mean, they're at the 90, 95% implementation, and the other 5% is driving you crazy is what I'm hearing. Because the 5% matters, and it's done you good, and I appreciate that. I'm glad for you. And if they live a long life, they could inherit this at 60 60 so we just don't know yeah there's too many variables here but i i and it and it won't be a million then it will be several million if they if it goes that

long because of compounding so um you know i i think for today i'm going to set the will up and leave the vast majority of it to the kids if you want to earmark some for charity that's fine but i'm not they haven't invalidated their right to manage money in anything you told me um uh and and i don't see any kind of confrontational thing being uh i'm with you i agree with you on that uh uh kim that that it probably wouldn't be profitable to try to have a talk about all that. I think I simply would just leave it to him. I'm going to side with your husband on this. But you do whatever you want to do. It's your money. It's okay. They're not entitled to it morally, ethically, or legally. It's whatever you choose to do. This is The Ramsey Show. the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing

ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Thank you for joining us, America.

George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Joe is in New York City. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. My parents have recently taken out two loans to remodel their home in the amount of $55,000. And they're trying to tell me I'm responsible for it. And I want to know if I should agree to this or not. I'm sorry. Why would you be responsible for a loan on their house? I'm confused. Because after I left college, I moved back in with them, and I've been with them for the past five years.

So? That's how I see it as well. Was there not room for you, and they had to create an extra room for you, and you requested this? It was my same room from high school. In fact, when they were looking to get the home redone, I told them no. I was part of the conversation with the contractors that came to look at the house. How old are you? I'm 31.

Why do you still live at home? I have a lot of student debt I'm working through right now. You need to move out. I agree with you. You should have moved out 10 years ago. What in the world? I mean, no, you're not obligated morally, legally, ethically, anything here. I have no idea where they got this.

I don't understand the conversation even. But I also am not going to tell you to stay there one more minute you shouldn't be there it's not good for you yeah i've been paying down my student loan so i could recast it doesn't it doesn't matter it's not good for you even if it slows down your debt payoff this is stunting your growth and it's causing this relationship to be strained which it may already be too strained to repair i don't know what do you do for a living i work with uh the local department of social services what do you make uh 60 grand a year okay so you uh your degree is in what it's in um environmental science. Okay. And what do you owe on this degree?

Oh, when I last looked, $110. Okay. All right. Well, it sounds like you probably are going to have to make some career choices as well, and you're probably going to have to pick up some part-time income and be working like a maniac because you're probably going to pick up some part-time income and be working like a maniac because you're not you're not making progress okay you're you're not you need to be paying like 30,000 bucks 40,000 bucks a year on the loan to make it go away in two or three years

and um and you can't do that making 60 living in New York City. And so you probably need a different job, and you need six other jobs in addition to that. And let's get your income up and get you out and get you into the world in a sustainable situation. So the odd thing is, is the reason you stayed there was to pay down your student loans, and you haven't. Ta-da! Time to go, bud. Time to go get you a better job, go get you lots of jobs, and get you a different place to live and pay down the student loans for real this time. So that was mythology.

That was a lie you told yourself. And you didn't mean to, but lots of people do this. Five years with very little bills, you should have made some serious progress on the debt. And it sounds like you get comfortable living at home. You sort of resort to your old childhood self, and you don't make as much progress as you think. And, you know, the frustration with the 31-year-old still living in your basement could boil over into a misguided, toxic claim that you owe us money for us taking out debt.

You know, like the parents have kind of lost their minds a little bit. And this is their. Resentment. This is their toxic methodology to solve a failure to launch well we can get them to pay this is our way of kicking you out but because we don't know how to do it and we're we're all and we're all really frustrated so that's probably where some of this is coming from but it but to answer your question no you do not owe the money yes you should be gone by the end of the month at the end of next month for sure and you may need a new job by that

time too and you may need a new state to live in by that time too you need to live in an affordable area make a pile of money and clean up the mess because while you were living with a place with no rent you made no progress or no sustainable progress no measurable progress tom is in chicago hey tom how are you dave and george is it it is an honor to speak with you both you too what's up i've been renting a townhome for many, many years, and the homeowners, through their property manager, have informed me that they now want to sell and have asked me if I'd like to handle it in that situation without it being listed. Of course, if it were just a house that I was looking after, going after in a normal situation, I'd get a realtor. Do I get a realtor in this situation? Since it's not being listed, I don't know if I'm allowed to do that.

You're allowed to do anything. It's just a matter of who's going to pay for it and whether you actually need it or not so you need a mortgage right and you need someone to guide you through the contracting process and the mortgage process and the appraisal process and all of that are they giving you a price of $330 based on some comps that the property manager pulled up who is a realtor. I didn't like the comps. I didn't agree with those comps. area not very close to me, and when I looked at them, the homes were much nicer than this home, so I don't know how to combat that. So they have a real estate agent. It's called a property manager. It's a licensed real estate agent.

Yes. And they're probably going to list it with this person. Eventually, but they're asking me before they list it yeah but it doesn't what's the benefit to you it doesn't there's no benefit to you you're not getting a deal there's no bargain i guess the deal i guess the benefit is that no one else would be able to make an offer on it oh yeah okay um i mean if you had a transaction you were comfortable with and you can go through and get your mortgage and everything you can go to a title company get a contract drawn up

and do this i i don't i think this this transaction is so far from happening that you probably do need a pro in your corner to help you navigate the negotiation and then help you navigate the closing help you navigate the appraisal help you navigate the closing, help you navigate the appraisal, help you navigate the getting of the mortgage and all the different things, all of things you don't know how to do. But if you had all those things already lined up, you could. You don't have to have a real estate agent, but you can. In this case, I think you'd benefit from one. Just say, if they list it, typically what happens is the listing agent, in this case the property manager,

they're going to put a 6% commission on it or something about like that. And then the agent that represents the buyer is going to split that with the selling agent, typically. That's a normal transaction. And so, you know, if you get a real estate agent to represent you and they work with the selling agent before it actually goes on the market but a commission is still paid it didn't cost you anything it cost them something um and you know the the let me tell you if you just buy it right now i think this agent is going to get both of the commissions. They're probably going to charge the seller a full commission.

So yes, the answer is I'd go get a real estate agent. Yes. In your situation, I would. Yes. I mean, it's kind of borderline, but I think there's, I think there's a lot of lot of a there's another real estate agent already involved okay b you don't like the comps so you got some negotiating to do c you got to have somebody walk you through the closing process and the mortgage getting process and the appraisal process so all of those things tell me yeah i put a real estate agent in your corner it's just worth it for the stress factor at this point. Well, and the expertise to guide you through a journey that you've never been on. I might negotiate and save you $30,000 to where it was worth it.

RamseySolutions.com slash agent will help you find a Ramsey-trusted agent in your area to help you do that. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 5.5. It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. Ooh. John Adams said, there are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword.

The other is by debt. Ask the Chinese. It's good foreshadowing. Just got a little bit of a conspiracy theory chill. About 300 years later, and here we are, trillions in debt to other countries, Dave. There you go. Scary.

Bradley's in Chicago. Hey, Bradley, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello. I want to thank you both so much for having me I know you hear this all the time but you've definitely made a positive change in my life Well thank you sir How can we help today? Yeah, absolutely I made the decision

to loan out money to family and friends of mine in the total sum of just over $8,000. Um, and as time goes on, given the lifestyle that they lead, it's starting to leave a sour taste in my mouth a little bit. So I, I guess my question is how do I hold them accountable to, you know, make me whole and pay me back without straining the friendships and my marriage? Because I just got married in November and my wife, you know, this was before we got married, but she had vouched for her cousin as somebody for me to loan out money to, that's three of the eight grand, and it's been over a year, and I've only seen, you know, 500 of it since. So... What is your income? Yeah, just over 100. I sell software, so it's a little bit variable, but it's been,

you know, over 100 for the past three years. Why did you become the lender? Was it word of mouth? Hey, this guy will loan you some money. Go to him. So my wife's cousin originally owed money to who is now my mother-in-law, and the cousin didn't like how, um, difficult or tough to work. It just, it sounded

like the mother-in-law was trying to hold her accountable and put her feet to the fire and was complaining to my wife about it. And my wife kind of turned to me and said, Hey, I know you've got some money. Can we help her out? Um, and then my other friends just kind of knew that I was in a, a good position. Um, and I, I, he didn't ask me for the money. I just knew that he was in trouble. Um, so I decided to give him five of the eight, but at the same time, he, you know, it has a Corvette, he has two cars has two cars both you know in that on those and lives a life you knew that when you gave him the money right yeah i i did i didn't know that when i gave him the money all right so um you're probably not gonna like my answer oh no okay Okay. I think you've learned a very harsh lesson.

Never loan people money. If you want to help people, give them some money, but don't loan them any money. Because it changes your relationship with your friend and your wife's cousin to master slave. You're the master, they're the slave. Even if you're a nice master you're still a master the borrower is slave to the lender 100 of the time and that's what you're feeling here is that these um people are unappreciative they're out of control but guess what they were both of those things before you gave them money and you just got to now experience it personally so my opinion is is that you wrote an eight

thousand dollar check to the tuition uh and for tuition to the school of life and the school of life just gave you a um a passing grade on never loan people money. You have passed that class now. You paid the stupid tax. So if I woke up in your shoes with your situation, I would tell your wife, first thing I do, sit down with her and say, okay, I've made the decision that I made a mistake when I loaned your cousin money and when I loaned my friend money. If we were going to help them, we should have given them money. So go ahead and understand that from this point forward, I will never loan money to a family member again. As long as you see me breathing, that will not occur.

And you and your wife get on the same page about that. And then I'd call up your friend and say, you know, if you can pay me, that would be nice. But if you don't pay me, I want you to know I'm just going to forgive the debt because your friendship is more important. And tell the cousin the exact same thing, and I'll give you about a 98% chance you get no money.

But by the way, even if you don't do this, I'm going to give you a 98% chance you get no money. You loaned broke people money. Don't be shocked they don't pay you i would forgive the debt and walk away this is costing you more angst and a soul tax isn't and soul tax it's taxing your brain you are thinking about it they aren't so you're worried about straining the relationship. It's already strained. Yeah.

I don't know that it's ever going to go back to the way it was, even if they came in and wrote you a check today and both of them paid you, you still don't have any respect for either one of these people. Right? I don't know if I'd say that. I don don't i don't have any respect for either one of them it's not going to go back to the way it was before you lent the money as soon as you offered that money the relationship changed i mean it sounds like your friend is a person who just spends too much and is out of control as a typical american and it sounds like your wife's cousin's

a complete parasite and bradley's a sweet guy and people are going to go, well, Brad, don't give me some money. I'll be fine. Yeah. And buddy, I would end the Bank of Bradley. And as a people pleaser myself. I'm closing up shop on the Bank of Bradley. We're done with that puppy.

That's a boundary that people pleasers, which I'm one of them, recovering people pleaser, they have to put up the boundary and go, as nice of a guy as I am, I'm not going to do that. I don't do that. The only thing I can do is give you money, and I don't have any right now to give you that's it i i love the quote choose guilt over resentment and right now bradley's dealing with the other side resentment choose guilt that you you couldn't and you didn't versus the resentment of i did and i regret it yeah yeah if i woke up in your shoes sir having done what you've done, I would just walk away. I think it's costing you more than $8,000 in your soul and in your relationship.

And you're even a tiny bit resentful towards your wife for asking you to do this for her cousin, who's a parasite. Yeah. And I'm going to put an end to every bit of that. I'm just going to say oh i'm done i'm not going to think about it anymore no more money i have zero expectation and the secret to happiness is low expectations it's like my golf game so it's working out so far it's just i'm not going to get mad about something that i have no expectation is actually going to occur that's pretty easy you know i mean

because that that's what happens and and if it only costs you eight thousand dollars to learn this lesson it was cheap that was cheap that was cheap stupid tax very cheap stupid tax dave's done it with way more zeros on the end yeah i definitely have done it with a lot of i've learned a lot dumber things and a lot bigger things and you know and you know it's the never again principle um once you do something dumb you say okay that's in the never again bucket we never again do that and that way i'll never lose i may lose money another way but i won't lose money that way never again well the hardest part is not forgiving the other person it's forgiving yourself because you just think gosh how do i do something so dumb and i'm i't let this go, and it causes anger inside of you.

That's a difficult thing. It is. It is. And it's like, I mean, because if you look at it objectively, neither one of these characters were worthy of a loan. They weren't. I mean, who would loan these people money if you weren't? Well, I'm guessing a bank wouldn't lend them money.

No, they wouldn't. Which is why they went to him. Exactly. The Bank of Bradley. It's got a nice ring to it, honestly. It's closed, though. Closed for business. It's no longer open for business.

We liquidated the assets. It's got a little sign on the front, like the Persian rug place. We're still going out of business. 80% off. Still going out of business. And yet somehow still too expensive. 14 years later, we're still going out of business. And you still too expensive for 14 years later we're still going out of business and you still got ripped off on that rug that's it not fool me once oh bradley i'm sorry i hate it for you man but that's what i would do that puts

us out of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Thank you.