The Ramsey Show - App - You Should Be Furious at Your Debt!

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. America, we're glad you're here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Network. He's going to help us talk about work and careers and making money while we walk on all sides of your life. And he's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. John in Dallas starts this hour. Hey, John, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Hey, how can we help? Hey, so a negative in a car loan that I would like to get out of,

the loan is about $50,000 right now. And the quotes I've been getting are somewhere around 43 to 44. And the quotes you got were from who? One was from Jeep. I think the other was from CarMax. Okay. All right. So what kind of car is it? Jeep? Yeah, it's a Jeep. Okay, cool. What is is the exact payoff have you called and gotten that yeah it's just 50,460 something cool all right well there are three numbers when you get ready to sell a car that you can look at what you were given was a wholesale number or a trade-in value. So if Jeep or CarMax buys that car for $43,000, that tells me that they can sell that car for more than that,

and that's why they're buying it. They're adding inventory to their lot, and obviously their goal is to make a profit when they sell a car off of their lot. So if they buy it for $43,000, they're going to put it on the market over there around $47,000 or around 47 or 48, whatever, something like that. Does that make sense? Yes. Second number is a private sale number, which is an individual selling to another individual. That would be the number you need. And you can get that at Kelly blue book, KBB.com or go to Edmund's car guide. Either one of them help you get that number. Matter of fact, you ought to look at both of them and compare them

and see what you think you should put it on the market for at Trader.com or Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace or wherever it is you want to sell your car to another individual. The third number is a retail number, which is what the Jeep dealership is going to put the car on the lot for because they are a retail establishment. You don't have that option because you don't have a car lot. It's not illegal for you to get that much money for it.

It's just unlikely you're going to get that much money for it. So I think your car is probably worth $47,000. I might be wrong, but when you look it up, you're probably going to find it to be about something like that. Who do you owe the $50,000 to? It's Chrysler financial the issue that i have seen though is right now it seems like the same jeeps on the lot brand new are going for 46 or 47 that's you got something wrong because they would not have offered you 43 for it because your jeep is your jeep is used yeah i got a war a warranty with it i don't know if that that's great you you did a uh it's horrible but it's great news for this situation so when you

pay off the jeep and sell it early they will give you a partial refund for that upfront purchase on that warranty that's probably worth a couple of grand but listen to me carefully okay the chance that jeep the jeep dealer will pay 43 for a used jeep that they have to sell for 43 is zero and if they're selling the exact same jeep for 48 one of your numbers is wrong. Mm-hmm. Because it doesn't add up. I mean, if the actual exact same Jeep's selling for 48, it would make sense a used one like yours is selling for less. Agreed?

Agreed. And if they're going to resell yours after they buy it from you, they're going to make a profit. So if that's selling for 48 and 46 is what the used Jeep or 45 is what the used Jeep is, they're offering you less than 43. So you got something else going on here. You're trying to figure out some way you're trapped and you're not.

So how bad is your credit? Mid-600s. I filed for bankruptcy maybe like four years ago right when the pandemic started yeah so your credit sucks okay yeah um so what you've got to do is you have to find the difference let's pretend that you can sell the car for 47 like i'm saying then you need the three thousand dollar difference thirty four hundred dollar difference you've got to come up with that money either in cash or you've got to borrow it. That's why I was asking about your credit. And if you go borrow $5,000, buy you a $2,000 car,

and write a check for the difference on this when someone else buys the car, then you're out of it and you're free. But that's what you're going to have to do, because this thing's strangling you with an $850 payment. It's beating the snot out of you. And if you're like me, John, when I've done stuff like this, every time I write that check, I feel dumber every time. Just the very act of doing it can. Yeah. And I would say there needs to be some intensity on this, intensity on everything that Dave laid out, your three options, intensity to sell something, go make some extra money, attack this thing so that when you sell it, whatever gap you have there, you're able to get a beater or something else and put this thing behind you.

But this has got to be handled with intensity. It really does. If you're still sitting around paying $850 payment six months from now because you haven't taken action, then you just keep hitting yourself. You're just beating the snot out of yourself every day and so the faster you get out of this the less damage it's going to do because let me tell you 100 of the time jeeps go down in value so the longer you hold it the wider the gap is going to be right now the gap is the least it's ever going to be that's exactly right so ken is smart he's

telling you the truth. You got to get out of this thing. You got to get fired up about this and go like, my hair is on fire. This matters. I got to do this. I got to get after it. And, you know, borrow the difference, sell something, take six jobs, come up with the difference in cash, whatever it is. Because the quicker he gets out of this, the quicker he gets a $10,000 raise.

It's that simple. $815 a month, that's right about just shy of $10,000. That's a lot of money. Yeah. $833 a month is $10,000 a year. Yeah. You get a $10,000 raise. That would motivate me.

Motivate me to never take out the payment in the first place. That's exactly right. There's that right so guys cars all of us in america you know as as a culture we are stupid about cars it's the largest thing we buy that goes down in value and And so you take a $50,000 car and you drive it for three years, you know, you're going to lose 60 to 70% of that money. It's going down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy gets that like a rock. Okay. And so, you know, they go down in value. And so there's nothing evil about having a nice car. What's bad is when your nice car has you and it has you when you bought a car, you couldn't afford that's going down in value. You've got too much tied up in a depreciating asset and worse than that, you financed it

worse than that. You fleeced it. Oh, you're getting fleecedced that's a bad idea don't do that that was my sheep impression to go with the fleece joke y'all got it okay so yeah really seriously and i'm like you i like a nice car i drove a nice car today but i can afford to take the losses as a percentage of my net worth percentage of my income and but most people man cars are killing you they're killing you this is the ramsey show statistics show that half of americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all i don't understand this john why don't people want to take care of their family they think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have

life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. What would it be like to have no debt? Million dollars in your 401k. That'd be pretty cool. You know, we've studied people that have done that, tens of thousands of them since we started doing this 30-something years ago. None of them accidentally did that.

They didn't wake up and go, whoa, look what happened. They're not shocked. It was a series of steady habits and behaviors. Can we see habits and behaviors change everything in every area of our life, right? And the habit and the behavior that causes people to be intentional with their money to hit the goal of some level of financial peace, a pile of money in your retirement and zero debt house and everything paid off. That happens only with a plan. You have to plan to do it. And then you have to incrementally, how do you eat an elephant?

A bite at a time. But you need a plan to eat the elephant. You need to do a little blueprint, a little diagram on the elephant and go, okay, I'm going to start right there, and then I'm going to go over there, and then I'm going to go over there. And that's called a budget, where you give every dollar of your money an assignment. Hmm.

Don't do ready, fire, aim. Do ready, fire, aim. Do ready, aim, fire. Every dollar has given direction exactly what to do. And that's why we named the world's best budgeting app EveryDollar. Tens of millions of people are using it. You can get it for free, and it'll get you on your journey, baby. Go to the App Store, go to Google Play, download every dollar for free. So Ken helped me, and a few of the rest of our team helped me put together the questions

that I would ask President Donald Trump once we were given the opportunity to sit down with him. We reached out to Vice President Harris' camp, if you haven't heard, and to President Donaldris's camp if you haven't heard and to president donald trump's camp and offered to do a long-form interview for uh the ramsey podcast ramsey show youtube channel and we were able to go up there last week and do that and uh we posted it yesterday uh wednesday october the second on our podcast channel and on our YouTube channel so that people can watch it. And Ken, it broke all records around Ramsey anyway. And we've got some huge numbers around Ramsey, but these numbers are even bigger. Nine hours and 11 minutes after it was posted, the first million people had watched it.

The completion, meaning the people that turn it on and watch it all the way through, is almost 100%. No one's turning it off. They're watching the interview all the way through, which also tells me that our team did a great job putting that together. And some of those questions that you helped me formulate must have been stuff people wanted to know about. Yeah, imagine that. We got probably the most covered, the most unpredictable presidential election of our lifetime. It's been a crazy last three months. People are paying attention. We're just about 30 days out. I think it was timely because I think people wanted to know what you were going to ask.

I think you've got, obviously, a very trusted audience. My question for you is, because people can watch it from a content standpoint, I'm just curious. You had a very full day. There was a massive press conference right there in the lobby of Trump Tower moments after you wrapped the interview. I'm just curious, what was his state of mind? Was he present? Was he distracted? What was going on?

I'm just curious what that was like in the moments before the conversation. 100% zoomed in. Really? Completely. Not distracted at all. Interesting. I don't think you can survive in the environment that a presidential candidate, either party, is in because it's from one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next, to

the next, to the next. I mean, you're all day long. You're flying from, you know, they flew in from North Carolina. They'd just been down there speaking. And then they had this had that they had this and they came in they go hey we're actually running a little bit early can you start early and we're like yeah let's go and uh but if you can't concentrate in the moment in the middle of that kind of frenetic yeah thing i think i think the the process would eat you alive and you would collapse and your image you know what you're trying to portray would collapse uh if you're thinking about the next thing rather than the

moment being present yeah i don't think you could do it it'd be like doing this show and i'm thinking about something else that's exactly right you have to have a level of focus the other question i i think people would love to know uh is we have an image of somebody like him who's been covered probably more than any person in the history of media so his you know his id rating around the world is 100 right uh in those moments before the interview moments after where only you and the people in the room saw that uh how does he come across what's the what's personality like because we know him as rally trump and you know when he's had to be presidential

yeah well and making fun of people on twitter or whatever and all that and caustic bombastic yeah that's what that's kind of what you think of when you think of donald trump right he's quite the opposite really just completely chill just came in sat down goes hey can we move that light over it's making my hair glow and um and we said yes mr president we can we can move that light over? It's making my hair glow. And we said, yes, Mr. President, we can move the light. Is there anything else you need, sir? So really focus on details. I mean, we do that with anybody, obviously. We're not going to treat anyone with respect that's sitting there.

We're not going to, no, we can't move the light. Of course we can. But he's like, yeah, this thing, it gets kind of crazy, Dave. That's funny. That's funny. That's funny. He was telling me a story. I was hearing it from Don Jr.

that they were joking around the family, and some of the kids didn't think it was funny after he got a shot in the ear. Right. And he said, one of the kids, I won't say which one, looked at him and said, yeah, but how's the hair? Right. Is the hair okay? Yeah. Yeah.

Ears bad, hair's great. Right. It didn't hurt the hair. Yeah. And so they got a sense of humor. That's really funny. It was really disarming how chill. Yeah.

You know, because you kind of get amped up because you got to meet the energy, right? Right. You got to meet energy energy, right? Right. You got to meet energy with energy. And otherwise, it's going to look weird and be weird. But it was just like, I wanted it to be down. I wanted to not have stump, you know, bombastic, crazy Trump. I wanted to meet the guy.

Yeah. And I wanted our audience to meet the guy. And we, 90%, we got that. The other thing I was going to ask you that I think is interesting is, again, we have this perception of him. He's got a business, obviously. He owns so many different types of businesses within his empire. What was the interaction like in the tower with the team? Because I think that if people come to Ramsey Solutions, you come to one of our live events, what they will experience is what you require,

which is high-touch, high-efficient service, the way we try to treat our fans. I've been around you a decade, been an employee, well, been around you for two decades, work with you and for you for a decade. You require that, and thus it is a, it's a system. We have created a way, a standard that you have required, and how we treat people, and people comment on it all the time. I'm curious, being in his world for those moments, what did you notice

about the professionalism? Did you see any culture things? Because you really talk a lot about that with Entree Leadership. You know, you and I, we teach a lot on leadership. And we've got the Entree Leadership brand. We speak to these small business guys. And we end up in discussions with teams about leadership and helping people run their business and leadership issues. And, you know, you can tell by the way the team is acting, you know, are they looking around like fear?

You can see fear in their eyes or fear. Zero fear. Zero fear. And they were cutting up. They were having a good time. They weren't sloppy. They were very professional. Sure.

The excellence. And they were very complimentary of our team, of how excellent our team was to interact with and how we you know trains run on time we got stuff done we're supposed to all that so there was this mutual respect and you know we're just standing around for 20 minutes or 30 minutes talking and cut you know talking to secret service guys and the home the homeland security guys and the other secret service guys and the other secret service guys and the other secret service guy and uh but his social media team you, they're the ones that put this whole thing together because obviously this falls in that bucket. And they are really good at what they do, and he just lets them do it. There's no fear.

They're running their lane. They're running their lane, fully delegated, fully delegated. You get the feeling he actually knows exactly what they're doing, but is not giving any instruction whatsoever. Interesting. Except about the lighting. Yeah. There you go.

That's right. Well, that involves the hair. That's the hair. It's a different standard. There we go. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose Abigail is with us in Minneapolis hi Abigail how are you

I'm doing good how are you better than I deserve what's up in your world not much so I guess my question today is I I'm in quite a bit of student loan debt, and I have a job that I love and a career path that I think I love. But the amount of debt that I'm in and the amount of money that I'm making, I just don't see how it's practical to do that. What are those two numbers? How much do you make and how much debt do you have? So I'm in about $160,000 debt. It's all student loan debt. I don't have any other debt. Mm-hmm. I make currently $65,000 at my salary job as a judicial law clerk, and then I work another job as an event manager, and I probably bring in about $1,000 a month on that.

Okay. A judicial law clerk. Yes. Is that what you said? job as an event manager and I probably bring in about a thousand a month on that okay a judicial law clerk is that what you said yes okay and your degree is in what yep so I have a BA and then I have my law degree as well okay so you you have you passed the bar yes I just um took the February or I mean the July bar. So why would you not be a lawyer instead of a clerk? Just in case I didn't pass, I got this job that I am kind of stuck in for like about a year. Yeah, but I mean, now that you've passed the bar, you double your income as a lawyer, right? Yes, if I wanted to go in private,

but I feel like my heart and my prayers have been leading me more into the public sector and working for the government. Yeah, you're $160,000 in debt. You don't take a government job. I'll help you with that. I'll let Ken, the expert, tell you the same thing. Wait a minute. Yeah, yeah. I wonder what I'm going to say here.

Well, Abigail, I love what you're saying, but I would agree with Dave that temporarily we pivot to the private sector, juice that income, knock the debt out. You can always return back to working for the government and that type of specific work that you want to do. What is the appeal of the government deal? I just feel like there's a lot of need. There's a lot of what?

Need in the criminal justice system. A lot of need. Okay. And why can someone in the private world not supply someone's needs why is it the government the place you go to get your needs supplied i guess morally i want to work in the criminal justice system because i feel like there's a lot of issues there but i don't think i could be a private defense attorney right so yeah you, you're talking about prosec, the prosec, the prosecutorial, that's all the government. So that's the answer to Dave's

question. If you want to put the bad guys away in your mind, I want to be on this side of it. I don't want to go to the private sector. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, again, again, I don't, I don't, I don't have a problem with that, but the reality is you're not stuck, but you did say something that's interesting. Why are you, are you under some kind of contract? Cause you said to Dave a moment ago that I'm stuck in this for a year. What is, what does that mean? Yeah. So, um, when I started the job, it's about a one year commitment that you do a law clerk position. And so you have no way around that. We've got ourselves on paper.

We've got to follow that to the nth degree on that, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I have probably like half a year left. Okay. Did you not think you were going to pass the bar? Well, I just wanted to make sure I had a job just in case I didn't. Hmm. Well, I just wanted to make sure I had a job just in case I didn't. Yeah, but I mean, you signed a contract to stay knowing that you were going to go take the bar.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is what it is right now. So as an event planner, you've caught them up with an additional $12,000. But right now, you're going to have to slash everything that you can slash and make as much extra income as you can. That's how you get out of this right now until the six months is up.

But I'd begin this process today, as soon as you hang up with us, mapping out what the path is to the private sector for the sole purpose of making as much dough as we possibly can to knock this out. Because at that income, you can knock that out and get that out of your life. Yeah. So then I guess in the interim, while I'm still paying on my loans right now, I pay probably about 200 over what i is the minimums on them just because i'm trying to pay them off should i keep doing that or should i wait pay whatever you can pay right now yeah okay the more you pay the less you'll owe um and you know and as fast can, let's move into a higher paying position. Okay, here's what I'm troubled about, and I'm not

positive I'm hearing this, but I'm going to throw it out there because I want to make sure I address it because I don't feel like I've been kind to you unless I do. Sometimes I run into folks who feel like not, not in your world, not in the law world, but just in general that, uh, okay, I can, I can do this thing that I do this skill that I have. And if I work for a nonprofit ministry doing my thing, making 70% of what the marketplace pays for my thing, then I'm doing holy work. I'm doing good work. I'm doing God's work. I'm helping people work. But if I go into the private sector, by definition, it's greedy capitalism, and I'm a horrible person, and that the only people over there are horrible people. And I kind of think I'm hearing a little bit of that out of you.

Like the holy work is at the prosecutorial level, and no one in the private sector is as holy. And I just don't believe that. I don't think that's true. I just have prayed a lot about what I want to use my career as and where I feel like I can help. Yeah, and what you're discovering is that what Jesus said was true. The borrower is slave to the lender, $160,000 worth of debt,

and it's really hard to serve two masters. The master of the answer in your prayer life is to serve a certain way but it's a way that in which you can't pay your bills and you're stuck mathematically because you have two masters you have a student loan master and you have god tapping you on the shoulder in your prayer life telling you to do this other thing and so it's very hard to serve two masters. And so I want to propose a third option for everyone out there, and that is that you do not have to work for less money to be holy, that you can serve with excellence in the marketplace, kindness, compassion,

do good work and help hurting people from a private sector position, anything you're doing. And that's as much a ministry as a non-profit, because non-profits are not in the Bible. Non-profit is a designation by the IRS, not by God. And all non-profits are profitable. If they're not, they go out of business. They close down. They take in more than they pay out. They're profitable. It's an accounting entry that allows them to stay under the IRS as a nonprofit. It is not a holiness issue. And so you can enter the private sector, folks, and do holy, godly work and be at the top

of your game income-wise. I agree. I would say in this situation, I don't think she was necessarily going that route as much as in the private sector, you're limited in the type of work you're going to do that's going to put the bad guys in jail. So I would equate her situation to someone who really wants to teach. If you've got a master's degree and you want to teach, I would use that master's degree to go get a six figure job, get rid of the debt, get your life in a situation where you

live below your means. Like the teachers we have in our millionaire study, third largest group of net worth millionaires. I agree with you too, though, Dave, that right now she needs to be going after the debt. But I do think that if you get your life in order. My point is you don't have to sell your soul to do that. I agree with you. But I also say if she wants to put bad guys away, you see that as honorable, right? I do, but she said there was a need in the market.

The need is putting bad guys away? Well, I can't speak to what, you know. I want to help. I want to help people. I guess I'm going to help the victim by putting the bad guy in jail. Yeah. I'll go with that. Law enforcement.

I think there's a need there. I love law and order. I like the idea. Yeah, it's interesting. But I agree with you that now she needs more money. Yeah. And I just, I don't want, I'm not sure if she's there, but I know a certain portion of our audience struggles with the idea that they equate being broke with holy.

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in the jewish obviously in the Jewish tradition, Jewish language, rabbis' teachings for work is virtually the same word as the word we use for worship. And those of us that have a New Testament, those guys play only in what I call the Old Testament. They call it the Bible, the Talmud. And great friends of ours, by the way, we have great discussions. And that word work and worship are the same word. So in their mindset, to do your work well with excellence in service of others is an

act of worship yeah and that's what i was trying to say before that break yeah um is uh i i think that a plumber that loves god and does excellent work at a fair price treats people with kindness shows up on time cleans up his mess does the work and people that he's doing his work what we would call in the new testament as unto the lord in second corinthians right or if we're going to have trump we can say two corinthians right so um but second corinthians right and uh uh that'll come back to haunt me right there. But I'll hear about that by nightfall. But anyway, yeah, do your work as unto the Lord. Your work matters.

It matters, and you talk about this all the time. And so functioning in your gifts as an act of worship does not require that you do it from a government position or a nonprofit position. That's right. It just means you have to do it. It's a matter of the attitude and the altitude of the heart, not the actual location of the paycheck. That's exactly right. It's not holier depending on who is writing, who's signing your check, rather. It's the actual work, the actual result itself. And to that end, you don't have to just choose one lane to do the work in. And I think it's really important that people see that, that there's missional results in multiple lanes

of work. And when you can figure that out, you go, wait a second, if I can use my talent over here, it's just as worthy, to your point, as it is over here. It's all work that is honorable creates a good result. I'm talking about honorable work. Now, there's parts of any profession you can do that you could question the honor of it. No question about that. Not only from your intention, but also the type of people.

You don't want to be a guy getting people who are horrible criminals that really did do the thing. I wouldn't want to spend my life getting them off. I don't think that's holy work in her situation. So do all defense attorneys do that? No, they don't. There are defense attorneys that function with integrity before God. And there are some that are scummy.

But that's just about true of accountants. It's about true of people that own gas stations. It's true of people that own a hotel. I mean, you can find the good and the bad people in almost any profession. Yeah, there's no question about it. And it's all about what result are you creating and why are you creating it? And you can have someone who's selling faulty goods. That's wrong.

That is evil. A dishonest scale. That's exactly right. So the act of selling something is not wrong, but if you're selling a faulty product intentionally, now all of a sudden it's dishonorable. Yeah, exactly. Phillip is with us. Phillip is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Phillip. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? So if you excuse me, I'm kind of nervous, but so my question question is, should I buy a business or grow what I have now

organically? And feel free to ask questions today. What business are you in? So it's a tax preparation and consulting business. Cool. And you have the opportunity to buy someone's practice? Yeah, I do. Okay. Do you have the cash to buy it excuse me um so no it would be a seller finance deal okay uh well i mean it's it's all about a mathematical thing and then we've got to structure the financing route where i'm not about to throw up about it. So I'll help you with that too. But, you know, the question is, what are you talking about paying for it?

So we talked about $225,000 right now, and the yearly billings are about between $175,000 and $180,000. Okay. So on $150,000, what's your net profit? $150,000. So what she had, it's probably around like $75,000. So $0.50. You got a 50% margin on this.

Yeah. Because it's largely service-based. It's got to do with your hours, right? Do you have the capacity to take that on? I do. I do. What are you generating in your business? What's your revenues picture? So right now, organically, I started at the beginning of the year. It's about 30 so far.

And that's like a side hustle as well. I work full-time as well. Yeah. What's your day job? Basically the same thing. I do tax planning and consulting. I don't do preparation as much, but- How much do you make? What do you make in your day job? 90. And how much of the 30 on the side accounting hustle are you keeping? What's your profit margin on that $30,000? So on that, I actually have only taken maybe like $5,000.

I put a lot of it back into it to grow it. How much you got in savings of the side hustle? On the side hustle, like $5,000. What are you thinking is the benefit? You called us, I'm curious, before you got on the phone with us, what were you thinking the benefit would be of buying this other agency? Um, I, I think the benefit for me would have been just to be able to work for myself. So I come, my whole family's entrepreneurs and I have always wanted to do this. And the lady who approached me is older,

and I just wanted to work for myself. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. And I feel like I've always, like I said, I've always wanted to do it, and this has kind of fallen in my lap. My line of questioning is trying to get you to reconcile what the true benefit is, because I'm pretty proud of the fact that you've launched

something on the side in the same, you've got a good day job and a good salary, and you've managed to put money back into the side hustle. You got a little bit saved and retain earnings is what we call it in Entree Leadership. So I'm sitting there going, if I'm you, I'd probably go the more patient route because I don't see a huge windfall to even take on this financing. I don't think it's enough of a benefit to take on the debt. It doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, and that's actually the line of thinking I came across like a week ago. We were supposed to move forward with this,

and then that's kind of what I thought like a week ago, and that kind of why i'm calling as well i wouldn't do it yeah let's here's the thing we need to separate you you don't want to buy a job yeah you want to buy a business that's good and so if i were going to buy this business, I'm not going to do the tax prep. I'm going to hire someone to do the tax prep. Now, if I buy the business and I can generate $150,000, if I keep enough of her clients from $200,000, I can keep three-quarters of them. That would be a pretty good keep. I got $150,000. I'm going to have a gross profit of $75,000 on that. And then I've got to pay someone to do that work,

and I'm probably going to have to pay them 50 grand to do that work. Agreed? Yeah. And that means that as a business owner, I'm making $25,000 net profit on a purchase of 225. Not a chance it's worth that yeah yeah and part of the part of the reason why i was i had paused was her billings are very low on a per return basis so if i would if i would increase them i don't know how many of them would actually yeah

you're gonna lose you're gonna lose people just because it's not her and then you're gonna lose more if you raise super quick idea dave i would pitch her on a finder's fee yeah if she lets him take care of her customers they got to go somewhere yeah and i'll share i'll share revenue with you for a period of uh 12 months or something but it's not worth two and a quarter dude that's overpriced it's probably worth a hundred. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show,

number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Daniel is in Houston. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help?

I have a question about budget. I want to know if my wife and I are going to overkill. So my wife and I, we recently moved in together. We're relatively recent college graduates. Household income is about $200,000. Take home is about $145,000. That's post 401k, life insurance, health insurance, and HSA deductions. We have a six month emergency fund. We have zero debt. And now the goal is for her to become a stay-at-home mother one day. But up until that day, the discussed goal is to invest my income and live off hers. In other words, of that $145,000

that is take-home, $85,000 is mine, and $60,000 is hers. So invest 60% of her take-home income. Is that over, Carol? Your home is paid for? We do not have a home. We moved into an apartment together. Okay.

And you're married? Yes, sir. Okay. have a home we moved into an apartment together okay and you're married yes sir okay all right um you said that but i was just double checking the way because usually it's kind of like automatic you move to get in together once you're married so i'm just making sure i got this right okay um the um okay so so the way i would look this, the way I look at things is based on the data that I have of the studies that we've done and the people that we have worked with over the last 30 years that have built wealth, what did they do and what is different about what they did and what you're talking about doing and that's how I'm going to answer the question, okay? So in other words, as we studied 10,000 millionaires,

how many of them did what you did, lived in an apartment, did not buy a house, watched their rent go up every single year, which you can 100% count on rent going up your entire life as long as you rent every year until you buy a house and then it doesn't go up anymore. So the house goes up, but the rent doesn't go up. Very, very few people that we have studied or that we know of and have tracked with that became wealthy used that plan. Instead, what they have done is is they bought

and then paid off a home by investing a little less and using the difference to save towards buying that home because the largest line item in the math in your budget every month is the largest item is cost of housing. And when the largest line item is rent and it goes up every single year, your largest item is out of your control. And it's going up every year. When you fix it by buying and then you pay that house off, what we find is that we find 15 years from today, 14, 12 years from today for you, you have a net worth of a million and a half,

five or 600 of that is a paid off house. And six or 700 of that is a, uh, is in your 401ks and your Roth IRAs. And so I'm going to lead you that direction rather than this intense saving. Obviously, let me tell you what you are doing very, very well. You're actually paying attention. You're planning. You're thinking. You're scheming about how we can win this money thing. Most people just ride through life with their heads stuck up their assumptions,

and they don't know what's going on. And then they wake up broke. You're quite the opposite. You're on the very other end. You're very, very intense. You're on fire. And so we've just got to point you in a way that's going to be the most efficient for you to actually hit your end goal, which is a good stable life with a pile of wealth, right? That's our end goal.

Yes, sir. Yeah. So, no, I would not do what you're doing. I would start saving a maximum of 15% of my household income into retirement, and I would stop the HSA. I would build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then I'd see how fast I can build up a fat, juicy down payment, and I'd buy a house in Texas, which is a wonderful market to own a piece of real estate in, and I'd watch that house just go zoom, zoom over the next 15 years.

I mean, look back and think about the neighborhood that you might buy in and what you could have bought that house for 15 years ago. That just kind of makes you a little smiley. Wow. 15 years ago, I could have bought this house for, oh, that's what it's going to be 15 years from now. And so, yeah, that's what you want to do. Yeah. And I would just encourage you, Daniel, there's zero, zero chance that the guy we're talking to right now is going to not be able to live below your means. You're going to win. So when she becomes a stay-at-home mama, I promise you this, Dave will tell you I'm right. You're going to win. She's going to want a house. So Dave's advice is absolutely right. When babies, she don't want to stay in an apartment so let's

go ahead and just remove um the fear factor of will i have enough you're going to you know that's a really right now is to get that house payment ready those are two good observations and i i didn't you really keyed in on something there because i forget because i've gotten old and i've been doing this so long, but guys, especially young dudes that have just got married, guys can live under a bridge. A hundred percent. Yeah.

You know, if we weren't married, we would not be inside. Right. I mean, it's like, and ladies, you know, they come along and they go, no, no, it's warm in here. It's cool in here. We can control the atmosphere inside a property you know and and look we can cook in here and you know we've got storage for our stuff and yeah it's like the domestication of the male beast yeah but yeah um and but you're right it's uh he he really they just got married and moved in together.

Right. So he can live anywhere. Sure. And yeah, you're right. Even if she's going along with it right now because she's in love, but she's going to wake up and go, I don't love this apartment. No, that's what's going to happen. You're exactly right.

And she will be right, by the way, when that happens. 100% right. So we're trying to help you out on this one. And the way you're living, my friend, Daniel, you're going to be able to do what Dave says. You're going to have a fat down payment. I think, Daniel, if I could get two drops of your blood inserted in some of these people that are sitting on their butts, you're way on your way. You're going to be great. Oh, yeah.

You're not going to be a broke guy because you're actually paying attention you're willing to do stuff you're willing to go extreme and you're going to win you're going to win so he's going to call in several years from now and in a millionaire themed hour oh yeah you know baby steps baby steps millionaire he's that guy hang on daniel i'm going to send you a copy of the book the baby steps millionaires it's got the white paper of the study the piece of research that i'm talking about in the back and you will enjoy reading about these millionaires and you'll see these correlating uh behaviors that they have with what i'm talking about in the data and then you'll go okay i can adjust to that it'll be real

helpful to you you'll really enjoy this book it's aseller, and I'll send it to you as my gift, my wedding gift since you got married and moved in together. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Derek in South Carolina. I recently got promoted to private client banker for a national banking chain. This will probably be as high up the ladder as I can climb without being a financial advisor, branch manager, or business banking specialist. My position is a sales role where I bring home about $100,000 a year. I really love the finance world, but the more I listen to your show, it's getting harder for me to push loans, credit cards, and various investment products that I don't believe in like I once did. I don't want to hit the restart button because I love the finance world. I have my SIE

and my Series 6 licenses through my employer, and they will pay for my education if I do not want to go to college, excuse me, if I do want to go to college for a degree. What field in finance would you suggest I pursue? I love the idea of financial planning, but I don't want to push products or make the same amount of money that I'm making now. Well, again, when I read this, I go, good for you. You're not a bad person. So I understand, I love the values that are coming across in this question, but you're not a bad person. So take the guilt jacket off for the moment and go, all right, I do have clear values that are going to guide me. And you can absolutely help people win in their finances without pitching products that you disagree with. And I think of investment professionals and things like that, that have such a huge role in the people's lives that we've been coaching for years. And I think that's a

great field. If you want to stay in finance, then get in that space and help people with their long-term investments and just refuse to, you know, get involved with a firm or the kind of products that you're worried about. But I don't think you have to switch gears at all. But Dave, I'm curious, this is more your world and you have a greater understanding of that. What's your take on this question? Oh, your answer is exactly right. I mean, just the SmartVestor pros that we have, there are people in the Ramsey Trusted Network that we send our listener to. They have the heart of a teacher. They're not pushing any products that are bad products.

They're simply helping somebody get their Roth IRA started or get their kid's college fund started or roll over their 401k. And they teach you what you should do. And then once you understand and decide that that's what you want to do, then they help you do it. They actually make the transaction for you. And that's what a good smart investor pro does. And those guys and gals that after a period of time in the business, that develop a book of business, a group of clients, they make a lot more than $100,000.

That's right. And they should, and I'm fine with that. But you don't have to lose your integrity to be in the financial world. There are plenty of ways to do it right. But I think there's more ways to do it wrong, which is what you're observing. That's exactly right. And so you just have to get with someone where you say, gosh, if I don't feel right about that, I'm not going to do it.

And they go, oh, no, you have to do it. Well, that's not where you want to be, right? That's exactly right. So, yeah, what I might do is just click on some of the smart investors on our website, see if you can get to sit down and talk to one of them about joining their firm, or if not, at least tell them. Maybe one of them will let you buy them a cup of coffee, and they'll tell you how the business works.

Now, that's my great advice is just to sit there with somebody and go, hey, I want to get in this space. Give me the good, the bad, the ugly. What do I need to do? Is there an opportunity for you? And I think his litmus test on this is I need to do? Is there an opportunity for you? And I think his litmus test on this is, I need to be in the world of finance where I'm helping people achieve freedom, not in the area of finance where I'm saddling people with debt. And I think that's the simple

litmus test for him. And it comes from a good place. Yeah, it's great. But I mean, you're not going to be working for a bank. That's correct. 100% of the time a bank employee is going to be forced to sell debt products. It's where banks make their money. It's what they do. And, you know, there's no, I mean, it's like asking a dog if it's hungry. You know, of course it's hungry. Of course a banker sells debt. It's what they do.

Of course they think home equity loans and credit cards and car loans and lines of credit and are that they think, oh, that's the cat's meow. And obviously you've come to the conclusion that we have that that's not a good plan. Kelsey's with us in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Kelsey. How are you? Hi, Dave. It's so great to be on your show. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? All right. So my question for you today is, is it okay for us to spend 28% of our take-home pay on our mortgage payment? Well, it's okay to do whatever you want to do. You're an adult. I mean,

it's not like you're breaking a law or something. We teach, apparently you realize, to keep your house payment around 25 but 28 is kind of like 25 it's not the end of the world the reason we teach that is that people go out and take a you know 50 of their take-home pay and then they call me up broke right and their house poor you know three percent you know you know that's like saying okay i'm not gonna do dave's 25 i'm gonna do 22 because that's gonna guarantee i'm a millionaire in a year no it's only three percent it doesn't do it and three percent's not gonna the other way he's not gonna not gonna condemn you to death and and and hell and flames okay not the three percent's not that big a deal

as long as you get the concept now is this a 15 year no it's not not in portland oregon not going to be able to they have they have 15 year mortgages in portland oregon all over the place they do that's true they don't own the house you want to buy yeah so no i would not do that yeah absolutely not going into debt for 30 years and using Portland, Oregon as my excuse. That's bull crap. No. No. You're going to be in debt your whole life, girl, and that's not what we're signing you up for here.

We want you to be wealthy. Yeah. I don't want to be in debt my whole life either. No, you're signing up for it. It's just struggling with a three-year-old and a one-year-old and the house we're living in now. Don't blame your children for your wants. that's true that's true you want a house you got house fever take a cold shower a bigger place to live yeah you you want a nicer house than 98 of the world's population lives in it's true yeah it's okay i want you to get a house i don't want your house to get you

yeah that's all it is oh by the way let me ask you this when you say take home pay what else coming out of that check what all's coming out of that check so the well that's just after taxes okay that's all i wanted all right so it's not like you took a bunch of other stuff out there we could add back to help you with this formula. But listen, you can do whatever you want, like we started the call with. You're like a grown adult and stuff. You're allowed to. It's not against the law.

But I'm going to challenge your decision-making paradigm or framework that you're using that you can't do this in Portland, Oregon, and that it's for the children. Neither one of those are true statements. Okay. This is a house you want, and you're not an evil person for wanting a nice house. That's not the point either, but there is, you know, we have to push the child that lives inside of us, um, out of the cereal aisle and say, no, we can't live on lucky charms. We have to live on meat and taters. That's the way it works, you know.

And so that's what we've all got to do. And that's hard, Kelsey. It's hard for me. It's hard for everybody else. I do want you to get a house, but I do not want your house to slow down your family's progress to cause instability rather than stability because you stretch and stretch and stretch and

justify and rationalize. Yeah. And just to encourage you, Kelsey, I think everybody listening understands this desire to have a little bit bigger space. But the one in the three-year-old, I think is what you said. You just got to remind yourself sometimes, Dave's right. You got house fever. We've all been through that before. These kids don't need more space. The average American family has way more space and way more stuff in that space than they actually need. And so this is about the long-term play. Where do you want to be 20, 30 years from now? And what decisions that you're making right now are going to hamper or hold that vision back? And this is one of them when you got too much house. This is The Ramsey Show.

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on

the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thanks for joining us, America. We're so glad you are here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Kevin and Kelly are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live? Gripton, Mississippi, just a little north of Tupelo. Yeah. Well, welcome up to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off? $116,000.

All right. And how long did that take, sir? A year and 10 months. Wow. Look at you. Great job. And your range of income during that almost two years? We started out around $82,000 and ended at $107,000.

Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a certified nurse's assistant. And I'm a land surveyor, do construction layout. Through this process, I actually got my surveying license during the paying off process. Ah, that helped the old income. Yes, it did. Good for you.

Great career, both of them. Excellent job. What kind of debt was the $116,000? It was the house. You paid off your house? Looking at weirdos. You guys are weird. You have a paid-for house. How weirdos you guys are weird you have a paid for house how old are you two weirdos i'm 35 and i'm 37 and you have a paid for house way to go guys

oh we're seeing a picture of it pop up on youtube here nice place what's that place worth uh around 290 now excellent way to go you guys that's awesome thank you look at those smiles oh i love it man my house is paid for yeah two houses worth 300 grand how much is in your nest egg your retirement savings oh around 40 in mine and probably about the same in hers i would probably okay so you're approaching the first half million on your way to being millionaires by the time you're 40 probably way to go guys thank you proud of you very cool so what in the world caused all this what happened how'd you get connected to this ramsey stuff well we've got some friends that live in north carolina uh jim and julie sly and she texts me on my 33rd birthday and we just got to talking about kids she had

kids that were in college age and uh she said let me give you some advice on you need to be saving for college right now and i told kelly i said how can we say while we're this much deep in house debt so we got to researching it come across you i kind of got on board with it and then she got on board with it, and then I couldn't get off board. Yeah, too late, right? Too late. Like I was going to do most of it, but the credit card deal, I didn't have issues with credit cards, so I thought. Yeah, I said if we're going to do it, we need to do it right.

So we got debit cards. We cut up our credit cards, got debit cards, and you would be surprised. And you're still alive. Yes. It makes a big difference when that money goes the minute you spend it. Yeah, you do spend it differently, don't you? You do. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. So proud of you.

How does it feel to not have a payment in the world? We still don't really know. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Kevin, I'm curious for the broader audience, how much did it cost you and how much time did it take to level up during this debt-free journey, if that's when you did it? And then that gave you some additional income. Give us the data on that. As far as like the –

Yeah, how long did it take you and how much did it cost you to get that additional income? Oh, it's a three-part test, and you have to pass each part before you get to the next, obviously, and so I started applying probably before December of 23, I guess it was, and I passed it in October. Well, it would have been December of 22, passed it in October of 23, so that long of a process to get through all three tests and get my income up. How much did it cost to actually do that? The cost of it, probably no more than $1,000 to $1,500 with test applications and the test fees. Yeah, that's interesting. Cool, and it bumped your income a lot more than that.

It did, yes. It was something I'd been putting off for years and should have just went and done it. And when she gave me that wake-up call, it really just kind of boosted our uh enthusiasm to do something it's like i woke up when i turned 33 is what i tell people and when kelly cut up your credit card you had to go get to go to work buddy right that's right yeah definitely i love it way to go you two who was cheering you on who was your good cheerleaders probably his parents most yeah my parents helped out a lot with uh discount daycare is what i call

it and uh then my boss andy he was a big proponent he was pushing your plan and he told me he said just do it just stick with it and do it and really, I've got so many people in our church that I can't even begin to name. One of my cousins, Jason, he's a great influence in my life, and still he is. And, I mean, just so many, I can't even name all of them. Do you want to try to? Anybody tell you you were crazy? Oh, yeah. Oh, you had those two?

Oh, yeah. She had both sides of the equation, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, okay. That's all right. That's good. If broke people are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track, man.

I like it. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. All right, now you're the other side of it. You got a paid for $300,000 house. What do you tell people the key to doing that is? What's the key to getting out of debt?

You got to stick together and stick with the budget and live below your means. Yeah, you really got to just get to the point where you don't care what people think of you. Yeah, there it is. There was something else I was going to bring out through this process. We started really getting serious, cut up the credit cards around October of 22. Is that right? And by December of 22, she started eating right, exercising. I wasn't into that.

So she told me, she said, you've got to start doing better because you're making it hard on me. So that got me in gear. And through this whole process, I shed off 65 pounds. Wow. Goodness. Yeah, I lost about 70. And you lost 70?

Yes. Wow. I mean, between the two of you, you lost a backstreet boy. Wow. I lost 26% of my body weight. Goodness. You know, discipline begets discipline. It does.

When I find out I can control something, then I find out I can control something else. That has to do with the mirror, you know? Yeah. Way to go, you two. Dave, you've told people for a long time, rice and beans, beans and rice, but you guys went a different direction. We're like, we want to get healthy and debt-free. That's extraordinary.

When you look at it as though you have bitten off more than you can chew, financially and physically, it applies both ways. You have to give it time. I like what you did there. That'll preach right there i saw that i saw that move that was a good move nice dance move yeah mad respect on that that was well done uh excellent you two wow that's amazing and in both cases you'll never go back i sure hope not physically physically or sir. Fiscally or physically.

Either way. Yeah, that's right. Way to go, y'all. That's so impressive. Yeah, really impressive. Very neat. Very neat. So you tell people the key to getting out of debt is what again?

Consistency. Consistency, yeah. Both of us being on the same page because I would have bailed ship a long time before the end if she hadn't. Well, like you said, you got her started and then she wouldn't let you quit. That's it. I got it. I got that. That was good.

Very good job, you guys. And you got how many kiddos? Three. Three. Are they all with you or just this one? They are all three. Okay. Let's get them up here and let's get their names and ages, please.

This is Kaysen. He is three. Mm-hmm. And Kaylee, she's two. Mm she's two and kyla is seven all right i gotta tell you what you change their family tree they don't know it yet because they're too young that their mom and dad just completely changed everything for them not only health wise but uh financial health as well way to go all right kevin and Kelly, Tupelo, Mississippi area, 116,000 paid off house and everything, 140 pounds lost. Did all this in one year and 10 months, making 82 to 107.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. That's amazing, Ken. Really extraordinary, the parallels

between getting their financial life and their physical life under control. Really amazing. Same problem, guy in my mirror. Same solution, guy in my mirror. This guy in my mirror this is the ramsey show what does the future hold for business ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers economic growth or a recession business taxes will go up or down AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with

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and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Guys, time is running out to book your cabin on our Live Like No One Else cruise, setting sail March 22nd through the 29th. More than 95% of the cabins are full. There's just a handful left.

We can still get you on, though. This isn't your average cruise. It's a premium Caribbean cruise with destinations like Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. Holland America's incredible ship. I'll be there the entire week, Sharon, my wife. All of the Ramsey personalities will be with us the whole week. Of course, we've got the pools, the hot tubs.

Ken's going to be holding court literally at the picket ball courts. We've got the greenhouse spa and salon. We'll all be doing events and talks on the ship, along with our wonderful stops that we're doing and our wonderful guests that we're having, like Stephen Curtis Chapman, comedian Trey Kennedy, Dina Carter, world-class chef Manit Chauhan, and more. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise, that's how you do it. Folks, this is the last segment of the show that will be on the podcast

and YouTube. If you want the next segment of the show, jump over to the Ramsey Network app. It is free. It's also where you'll find, you found the Donald Trump interview one day early. Lots of stuff happens on the network app that make it worth signing up for.

It's completely free. Download Ramsey Network app from Google Play or from the Apple Store. and you can click on the show notes watch the rest of the show of the app everything's there it's good for you abby's in boston hi abby welcome to the ramsey show hi how are you better than i deserve what's up? Well, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to pursue a paid leave of absence from my job or just to walk away altogether. Okay. Give us your current pros and cons for walking away altogether.

Cons, it's an hour commute, and my father is sick, but that's another Karn. Being far away, if something were to happen with him. So the reason you want to do this is you want to be able to go be near him. Yeah. In either case. Okay.

But if you walk away, okay, go ahead. What are the pros to walking away when we're walking away from that income? I don't always get along with one of my bosses. Neither does Ken. He's sitting here.

That's awesome. Yeah, it's not a good reason. So what are you walking to? I understand your father, and that's a legit personal reason to try to figure out if i should make a change in my life with the with the job being an hour away etc etc but what are you walking to if you were to walk away and i'm talking about income you have another job lined up or some prospects ideas i i don't have a job lined up, I know I could get another position in the industry. Listen, I love your confidence, but I'm not going to walk away from a full-time income,

especially when I need it, and I presume that you need it. You can't have an interruption in pay. I'm not going to leave one place to be closer to my dad and all these changes you need to make without having something already lined up. Why don't you just go get the other job? Yeah. I'm afraid that if I were to start a new job, I would start off on a bad foot already because I'm going to have to take time off, not just because of my father, but because I was diagnosed with something as well. Okay, so you, okay, this is new information.

So you have some health concerns. Yeah, it's a new occurrence. Okay. And you know for a fact your current company is offering you the paid leave option to try to get healthy? No. No, they're not. Okay. Well then, but you presented that as a, should I take paid leave or should I walk away completely? But paid leave is not an

option. I'm under the impression that it's not up to the employer, it would be up to the state. Okay. But we have some, okay, that's fair. You got me there. But I'm saying we have certainty. I don't feel that we have certainty right now. Phil, you're like, I'm under the impression that the state would give me. I need some certainty on that before I would take that option. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I think you're confused.

I don't think the state of Massachusetts requires an employer to give you paid leave. The federal government has, we're required to give you time off unpaid and hold the position for you. That's a federal law for a family situation or for a health situation. Family Leave Act. The Family Leave Act is a federal law, but it doesn't require paid. Yes, I understand. And I don't think Massachusetts requires paid. Okay.

Massachusetts, that's a made-up location. I didn't want to put my real location. I don't think any state requires paid leave oh even if you were to apply and you were qualified apply with who do you work for the state no no i don't so just for example my father he has cancer right and we applied for temporary disability insurance through the state that we live in right that's not paid leave that's disability insurance oh okay okay and if you don't get disability insurance for him, unless you can prove you are disabled,

then you might get some disability insurance. Are you disabled? No, I understand. Yeah, no, it's kind of two separate things. My diagnosis came after my father's situation. And when my father got diagnosed i took a lot of time off of work and then my situation came up after i got so it just kind of piled on yeah i got you so i'm just wondering is your diagnosis going to cause you to be declared disabled?

Maybe. I don't know. It's breast cancer, so I don't know. I'm sorry, hon. Boy, you guys got a lot going on. Cancer with both of you. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. Yeah.

So, and you're an hour and a half away from work. Your dad is. And is your dad's prognosis, I mean, what are they saying about him? Is this terminal or what? Yes, he's currently on hospice, actually. So how much longer do you think he has on? A couple months, if I'm lucky. Okay.

I'm so sorry. Thank you. I think I'm just being stubborn and trying to fight the principle, I guess. But maybe it's not worth it. But that's why I felt. I don't know what's not worth it. It's worth it to get to spend some time with your dad. And it's worth it to take care of your health.

I don't have any problem with any of that um and if that means you walk away from this job if you've got a way to eat over the next two months while you get some care and you provide some care to your dad in his last time here i think that's a wonderful move do you have a way to eat i do yes okay so you got some money coming in or a place to get some money or whatever. If you can do all of that and then just get you another job after all the, after, you know, a year from now, your cancer has been treated and, um, your dad's thing has run its course and, you know, you're resetting your life a year from now and you get a new job and you move on. I got no issue with that at all. I just want to be sure you're resetting your life a year from now and you get a new job and you move

on i got no issue with that at all i just want to be sure you're in the okay in the middle of this okay you know um i play house as you would call it so um you're living with someone is that what you're saying yeah so he's supporting you financially yes okay well then then you're saying? Yeah. So he's supporting you financially? Yes. Okay. Well, then you're okay. Yeah. I don't see any reason that you have to stay in this position.

If they want to give you paid leave, and that's something they offer as an employee benefit, that would be awesomeness. But I think you're out of there, and you've got to take care of your daddy and and take care of you is what it sounds to me like, kiddo. I'm so sorry. What a tough, tough situation. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Networks. He is my co-host today.

Wayne is in Phoenix. Hi, Wayne. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? So I'm in kind of a conundrum.

We live in Phoenix, and I want to buy a house, but everything that we can afford here in the Valley that works for our family is out of our price range and what I'm willing to spend. And so I want to move our family somewhere else that's cheaper to live because my kids are seven and six. And we're kind of in like that peak time to spend time with them before they don't want to spend time with us anymore. And so I want to be able to cut our expenses down to keep it lower so I can spend more time with them than having to work my butt off to afford somewhere to live. Okay.

Do you have a location? I guess my, I've lived in Ohioio and oklahoma i'm kind of really set on oklahoma the biggest problem is my wife she doesn't really she's not so on board with moving we've lived here our whole lives all of our family lives here and so getting her on board with that is difficult and then we're also both business owners and so that also offers a trickier solution to the problem because it's a lot harder to uproot and start a new business in a new location what kind of business have you got i'm a working general contractor and my wife is a real estate agent okay and what's your household income?

Um, it ranges between like the last two years, uh, I think combined we've pulled in about 150, 180, but it can vary, but that's been kind of what the average has been. How active is she as a real estate agent? So she's like part-time, I guess I would say her first priority is, uh, doing stuff with the kids. So basically I just, my income keeps, um, our main expenses flush so we can live. And then everything that she makes is basically extra money that we put into savings or use for vacation or whatever. What is the source of most of your GC work?

Is it residential? 100% residential. Building homes and it's all you? Or are you doing it for somebody? No, it's 100% my company. We do residential remodel construction. A couple years ago, I had four employees working for me, so we were doing a lot of more work in-house as opposed to putting it out to sub-trades.

But I had taken on a ton of work because it was during COVID, and so work was through the roof. And people just quit on me out of nowhere, and it really left me in a tight spot. Kind of put us in a hole. We lost our house. We almost got divorced oh man so sorry so when was when was all of that building when was all when when did you kind of get the other side of that uh that was two years ago okay all right so if you are making 150 to 180 thousand dollars a year what is keeping you from buying a house is that you're scared and wounded it is not math yeah phoenix is not phoenix is an expensive market but you can buy a home in the phoenix market

making 180 000 a year now i don't know i don't know if it's the home you want or not wayne but your drama queen self moving your butt all the way to oklahoma because you can't find a house in phoenix because you've been through hell and you're still wounded from that and you're still limping a little um and it knocks some of your confidence out um in you know oklahoma isn't where your confidence is you're not going to find it there and and it's not you know because you can buy a house in phoenix arizona making 180 grand now maybe not the neighborhood you want, maybe not the house you want, but, uh, exactly. Uh, and so forth, but you know, my wife's at home with the kids. I want to be at home with the kids. I don't want to work much. And now we hear the story of what's really happened. And, um, I think you're retreating. I think you've got, I think you're retreating. I think you're hurting and you're scared.

And instead of charging headlong into stuff, roaring like a lion, I think you're wanting to figure out some way that you can be safe. Yeah, I agree, Dave. I thought you nailed it. The retreat feels like the right move here, but it's really not, especially in the field that you're in. I mean, you can rebuild. You've done it well before. You can do it again. And I think, Dave, I think you're absolutely right. There's enough income there to get a decent house

and get things stable, heal things and all that. I think you've got a lot of guilt that you're feeling. And I understand that. And it's like, okay, I want to be more with the kids and you can do that. But I just think there's so many hurdles here. Trying to talk your wife after the pain you guys have been through, trying to talk her into leaving her entire family and going to Oklahoma, that feels like a losing proposition too. And you don't have any businesses or any income. Yeah. She's got a client base. You've got a client base in Phoenix and you're doing well. Phoenix is a wonderful market. I'm not leaving phoenix if i'm you yeah no i i do think though i would sit down with a good pastor uh maybe a good counselor and start to unpack some of this stuff

and even stuff on your marriage as well and start to get your mojo back um i i the reason i see that is it's what happened to me uh after we went bankrupt i lost everything i also lost my confidence and it took me a little while to get the gravel back in my gut again and to get back after it and it wasn't instant by any stretch of the imagination and um and part of me losing my confidence as my wife used to think I was Superman. And then she figured out she married Goober and that was, that was hard on, that was hard on me and it was hard on her. And so our restart after losing everything was, uh, emotional and spiritual and relational more than it was mathematical.

The math followed the emotional and the spiritual and relational more than it was mathematical the math followed the emotional and the spiritual and the relational healing and it didn't happen we didn't have that happen until we got that situation and i mean until we you know in other words we didn't get the math right until we got the other stuff right is that that making sense? I completely agree. The math becomes a function of healthiness. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be all right, brother. I think you're probably a whole lot better than you feel like you are.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I think you're a lot better contractor, a lot better husband, a lot better dad than you feel like you are right now. I think you're a lot better businessman than you feel like you are. And there's something, this escape thing sounds fine, but it's not, it's not, it's not the answer to your equation. You're, you still go with you when you move. Well, and I would just say, listen, retreating doesn't give you the growth you need. You know, the blacksmith Dave sticks an inanimate

object into fire, then pounds on it for a little while, back in the fire, pounds on it again, and then something good comes out of it. I'd rather him step into this, like you said. Don't retreat. It's hard. Rebuild. It's hard. It is. I agree that it's hard, but the way through the fire is through the fire. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Aaron is in St. Paul. Hi, Aaron. How are you? I'm just thankful I can even ask this question. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve, sir. What's up? Yeah, so we are on step four.

I'm just getting to the spot where we can put in 15% a month towards retirement. But we're kind of late on that. And now my daughter's already in college, so we never got to step five. Um, we told her we'd pay for 10,000 a year. Um, but then she chose a school that costs 27,000 a year. Um, she'll already be in a little bit of debt from the direct loans that she got. That was the only financial aid she could get. So now I feel like I should pay more than the $10,000 I told her, but it would kind of cut into what we'd be putting towards her retirement.

I'm just wondering if you guys have any advice on if that's a good idea or not to pay for her school rather than maybe some of that 15%. What year is she? This is her freshman year. And she just started a few weeks ago? Yeah, yep. Okay. What's your household income? I just got a new job, so we're at $200 a year now.

Okay, so if you put 15%, that would be $30,000 away for your retirement, and then if you need $20,000 for her, that's $50,000 out of $200,000. Can you live on the other $150,000 minus taxes? I think I'll make it pretty tight. I don't know that we could quite do that. That's why I thought I'd probably dig in about 15%. And we could probably do 10% from what I was figuring out with our budget. Okay. Well, here's the way we would look at it at the Ramsey house.

And you may look at it differently because that's your privilege. It's your house. But you called me and asked me, so I'll tell you. Your daughter should go to a school that you can afford, not a school that she wants to go to. She doesn't dictate to me if I'm the father and it's my checkbook where my money goes. If you don't go where I want you to go, you don't get any money. Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense. So, you know, I don't let the let the 17 year old doesn't set the tone here sure um she needs to go to a school you guys can afford not a school that she picked that you can't afford and then expect you to adjust everything to her um because here's the deal that either way she gets a college education so there is no big benefit to going where she wants to go other than just where she wants to go right it's not like she's like a hundred percent guaranteed she's going to be a successful person if she goes to her school and she's going to be a complete dog failure if she goes to the school you can afford that's not true the truth is it doesn't really matter where she goes

to school you know yeah that makes sense and i guess um it kind of ran through my mind but then also feeling like you know i failed by not you didn't fail for her you didn't fail you didn't fail because you didn't give her what she wanted what you wanted to do is you wanted to give her an education what she wants is to get an education where she wants to go you know okay but that's you know and it might blow your mind if you actually get to the bottom of why she chose that particular school how shallow her decision-making paradigm is that's what we find we talk to most of these kids yeah it's summer camp on steroids for these kids yeah it's like i like the houses in the town yeah they got a great lazy river yeah football team is really good my friend goes there my boyfriend went there right

these are how people pick colleges no you don't get that option you go where we can afford now if you've got the extra money laying around and she wants to go there and you want to pay for it i'm not mad about her being happy and you being happy but if you're telling me we can't in our budget making 200 000 fund our retirement and pay for her dream school well her dream school becomes you get to go to school yeah and i know i'm not paying ten thousand while you go ten thousand dollars in debt i'm not going to assist you in harming yourself yeah and and one other thing dave i was thinking about asking aaron and i think this is something that he and and uh his wife are going to have to wrestle with on this who's going to take care of you all when you're older is it her nope so the answer to the

question should we prioritize her college over our retirement to me is a big fat absolutely not I think you got the money to do both I think he does too but given given the choice, it's just the wrong question. It's got to make a hard core choice. Yeah. But so I think we've got to reset the expectations of the college student. Yes, without question. And say, okay, goal for going to – listen, folks out there, Rachel talked about this in Borrowed Future in our documentary that we did on student loan debt,

that we don't have a student loan problem in america we have a parenting problem and you know i'm picking on aaron and i'm picking on me and i'm picking on ken ken's got a whole bunch of them lining up to go to school yeah and so now you get to decide who's in charge of the asylum the inmates you know and that that's it's hard because telling anyone that you love no is a hard thing and they'll get sometimes they'll get the other parent to gang up on you oh without question you know like mom yeah dad mom won't do this and it's like no mom's not going to participate in your insanity. So let's set the table, folks. Going to college is not a requirement. If you don't send your kid to college, you're not a child abuser. Going to a four-year degree, getting a four-year degree is not an entitlement.

You're not entitled to it because you breathe air and you turn 17. You are entitled to the opportunity to pursue an education. And how do you pursue it? You work. You pass with a high number, the ACT or the SAT, depending on what school you're going to, and you pick a school that fits the budget that your parents and your work money going together can pay cash for. And that's the school you go to. Now, if mom and dad have enough money and or you have enough money to go or you get a free scholarship somewhere and you will go to a super expensive school that's your dream school i'm not mad about that you're welcome to do that but job one is to get the education put the tools in your belt yeah absolutely right and we can't

say this enough nobody cares where you went to school that's right nobody cares nobody cares no one goes into the lawyer's office this is where'd you graduate from law school no one goes in uh you know no i was with some friends of mine recently an attorney makes 400 grand a year i said where'd you go to law school he goes you're the first time they asked me that in 25 years. Yeah, right. And I'm like, well, I mean, just because I was just curious. And he told me the name of the school. I never even heard of it. Right.

Oh, yeah. I'm like, it's just like, he's making four bills. Yeah. You know, it's just, God, man. Yeah. Never even heard of it. Where'd you meet your wife? Name of the school that I never heard of.

Right. You know. And she's smarter than everybody at the table. Right. You know, and she's smarter than everybody at the table. Right. You know, that kind of, oh, my God. So it has nothing to do with where you go to school, people. I'm sorry. That's just the biggest ripoff in the education system right now.

And I would just add, too, I was just thinking through this, you know, if a kid wants to go to that school, then the kid's got to get some skin in the game that doesn't require student loan. How about some scholarships? How about some grants? How about working their way through school? If they put their skin in the game, not including debt here, then put that on the table. I'm okay with that, too.

Put that on the table. Say, you've got to come up with a $17,000 extra. That's not debt. But I'm not giving you money to help you go into debt. Right. Yeah. Otherwise, we're going to talk about a different school,do is that the way ambulance that's the way ambulance you heard it coming right up to the curb this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today his get clear assessment has helped

thousands and thousands almost a hundred thousand people gain a clear picture of the work they do best and they love the most the new book find the work you're wired to do comes with access to the get clear assessment and then it shows you how to read it. That's what the book's about, how to understand the assessment. Ken, it covers really a lot of the questions that life has, doesn't it? Yeah, it's what should I do with my life if you're in that high school, college age, if you've been in the workforce and you're not happy and you're going, what could I pivot to? What is possible for me? It answers that. Specifically, it's what should I be doing and where can I be doing it? And it's just a very practical self-assessment around awareness of what I'm good at, awareness of what I enjoy doing, and awareness of the results that

I really want to contribute. We know from all kinds of data that people want to make enough money. That gives them a sense of freedom, but they also want to experience. We know from all kinds of data that people want to make enough money. That gives them a sense of freedom, but they also want to experience meaning. They want to get to the end of their journey and say, you know what? I did things that I was good at, things that I enjoyed, and through that, I made a difference. And that's what this is all about. And we know that from our millionaire study, 96% of everyday, excuse me, baby steps millionaires did work that they enjoyed. So it's not a real shocking secret that they actually enjoyed the work. It's why they work so stinking hard. And as a result, made a lot of money. There you go. Find the work you're wired to do. It

includes the Get Clear Assessment in the RamseySolutions.com store be sure you pick it up there right now it's a good deal all right kelly's with us in los angeles hi kelly how are you oh good thank you thank you for taking my call sure what's up so i am up again i have a hard decision here to make and I just was looking for some financial advice. I own two properties, single family dwellings in Los Angeles. I have about $1.5 million worth of equity between the two of the properties and the city of Los Angeles sued me for an existing retaining wall at the property where I live. And it's been about five years now. I've been trying to deal with it. I spent about $30,000. That's how much my credit card debt is right now. So with my 803 credit score, I don't want to lose that, and I don't make enough income to keep up with this, you know, chart all the money I'm going to have to spend. So I have to decide, do I sell the house where I live and just go find another house?

I mean, I know that I can't do a 1031 exchange that way. You don't need to on your personal residence. I'm just trying to figure the best way to save taxes because I have good tenants living in my rental property, and they wouldn't mind if I sold that house and bought another house. They could just move right into that other house. But I can't qualify for a loan, and I can't tap into the equity. How old are you?

55. You don't work? Well, I work as a caregiver. I was in insurance, you know, and it's a long story, but I decided to get out of the corporate world. And then I was going to start like an animal kind of sanctuary, you know, mobile petting zoo type thing. And that's why I bought this large property. It's like two acres. And so I started buying animals. So I have like, you know know a lot of animals and I take care of them and I'm a caregiver so I do work but it's not a lot it's like you know minimum wage but it's

enough for me to get by I you don't work you have a hobby taking care of animals well you don't have a career you don't have a career not anymore not anymore i used to but i got tired of it so i just became a caregiver and i'm which has left you which is with no income has left you vulnerable i guess so yeah it's been about six years yeah i think it's just it's like my life is i would start over somewhere else i don't know i know but there's not there's not a job that's professional cat lady they don't have a job there's no job no i was going to do mobile petting zoo like uh you know i got it but there's no such thing there's no such thing parents There's no such thing. Parents in Pacific Palisades pay a lot of money to let their kids play with your goats.

There's a sentence I never thought I'd ever hear in my life. Things you get only on The Ramsey Show, the Palis goat oh my gosh okay um all right well they haven't yet right that's the problem they're not paying you a lot of money because you don't have any money yeah i mean i don't know how i can get by. You get a job or you get them to pay you for these goat pettings. Yeah. Well, I have a job. I can make 265 hours a month. So I do get paid for 265 hours a month. Kelly, your problem is you don't have any money.

Yeah, but I own property so which one should i sell it neither one are going to help you because you don't have a sustainable life when you don't have any income when you if you sold a house let's say you sell one of these and you put 300 grand in your pocket after you burn through that 300 grand we're right back here talking about petting goats again i should move out of los angeles you need a job you need a career if you really can turn this petting thing into money i'm fine with it i don't grasp this but that doesn't mean it's not doable but you you right now have not taken this beyond the thought idea and the purchase of the animals into an income producing business yeah and you either

need to do that or these goats need new parents and you need a job consuming my life the city's been consuming my life like no no yeah you've let that become a victim story and it's time for you to happen to your life you got all these things floating around should i leave la should i sell the house should i do here's the deal you got to make about two or three very intentional decisions and quickly or else you're going to be talking about this 10 years from now i i love the idea of selling both properties and all the animals and moving to a different state and getting a job i love love that. I second the motion. And get a job. Yeah.

Get a job, like a job. It doesn't have to be a horrible, I hate my life, corporate job, but go make you some money, and that way you don't burn through the money from the sale of these properties. But it sounds like you've kind of unraveled there in L.A. And, you know, the whole city thing has happened to you you tried to escape corporate america with a goat petting plan that has not turned into real money and you've got to turn this into money for your sake you really do and um and i think it's a great idea to go somewhere and get a completely clean slate, fresh start,

as long as part of that equation is getting some income coming in. I would love to give her- You're too young to quit. Yeah, 100%. And we want to give you the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Assessment with it. Take this and let it give you some confidence that you still have a whole lot left to give. And you're not going to beat the city of LA. I hate to be defeatist and that's not what I'm doing, but they're just, they don't run out of money and lawyers. Not, not in this case. And so it's time to stop this fight and let's, let's, let's re

start. I love the idea of just cleaning, scrape the whole thing. I love what you said. But it's good for you emotionally. It's good for your future. It's good for you to get resettled again and become the best version of you. And yeah, we'll send you a copy of the Get Clear Assessment as a part of the Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And if you want to pursue something with animals at the next place, turn it into an actual business, kiddo, that makes money. Yeah. Not that just eats all the time.

Because I'm going to go with her and say, I think the Pacific Palisades is the only place on the planet where parents pay a lot of money to let their kids pet a goat. This is yet to be proven. I can't prove that. It is a hunch. I must say that. It's at this point a hypothesis. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Romans 13, 1.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Thomas Sowell says, people say things like the government has to do something i say have you ever studied what happens when the government does something compared to what happens when they don't do anything yeah we have a couple case studies for you can't help you with that yeah oh yeah whoop that. All right. It's up next. It's going to be Justin in San Antonio. Hi, Justin. How are you? I'm better than I deserve.

Cool. How can we help? So just a quick question. I, in backstory, got off my three months of paid paternity leave as an assistant. I had moved into a GS or a civilian position. I work in the medical field here in San Antonio. That kind of vacation, in a sense, I was just delayed because I had to be in my career for about a year. That kind of sense-home family lifestyle

and a potential to make more money on a monthly basis? Or do you stay in a position that has the guaranteed government kind of retirement benefits like the FERS and TSP? I would never in a million years stay in a job just because of benefits and what is perceived as stability. I would never stay in that. So I would take option one. Okay. What's your line of thinking to where you're considering this? You're back and forth or were you leaning towards one of these options before you called us? Which way were you leaning? I've been 50-50. I have great mentors that I'm at my current position. Again, I've had run around working with doctors and the providers that I'm with

that if they were to leave, I think it would make it a little bit of an easier decision. But knowing I have that financial stability, I have federal health benefits that really helped out. You know what gives you financial stability? Not where you work. Money gives you financial stability. I have no reason to complain about what my income is from this current position. I did some research just kind of reaching out, just in my time off, and seeing what else is available out there. And there is jobs that pay more on a monthly basis,

but then you're taking out a lot more for their retirement or health benefits. And I'm extremely grateful for the position I have. I've been told many times going into a government position at 29 years old, looking at a retirement just through that government position, looking at being like a minimum, a millionaire for that. And then I've got my own personal Roth IRA and custodial accounts that I put for my kids. So it sounds like you were just kicking the tires on what else is out there. It's not something that you're actively trying to get on a different ladder. Is that what we're understanding? Um, I just, you are a great influence on my, my dad. He's taught me, um,

a lot in terms of the financial game and he's recommended a lot of your products and I've gone through your book and really try to base my line of finances off of what you present. Then let's go back one more time. I would never stay in a job because I thought it was more stable than making more money. Making more money is more stable than any job. And that's a mythology and secondly making more money will buy any benefit that the underpaying government job will give you

and so if you can make enough money to cover the benefit cover the difference in the benefits and you can go live your best dream rather than trying to search for safety. Don't search for safety. Search for adventure, and you'll find safety. Something else to point out, Dave, I'd love for you to address because this is an investing issue. Making more money allows you to invest more money, and the way we teach investing is going to far outpace your government pension

all day long because pensions are compounding at you know six or seven percent and good mutual funds are compounding at 10 to 15 percent and so and you know there's no way you can't keep up so a high performing uh high performance individual becoming successful in their career, doing excellent work in the open market, will always end up with more money than the exact same position in a government position. Always. And, you know, they're not living into the illusion of safety that's not real. That's the other thing.

Brad's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Brad. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I kind of had a question for you on what to do for my mother

because she's 56 or 57 whatever it is and uh her her house has fallen apart her she just totaled her car uh she's behind on her taxes i mean you the only thing she she drives for uber eats for a living and doordash and uh she's why is she 57 years old and has not developed a career well uh that was i mean basically her her life choices have put her where the where she's at what do you mean i mean she's i mean she she chooses to live that way like she uh yeah i know that she why i i don't i don't know well i mean what did she go through a nasty divorce with your dad and has never emotionally recovered lost all her confidence and so she sits in squalor? Well, actually, I mean, she was the one that chose to leave my dad, and they got divorced.

Oh, man, that's probably been, you know, almost 30 years ago that they got divorced. Yeah, and I bet nothing's happened in her life since then. Pretty much. Yeah. And it's kind of causing some tension in the family for me because my grandparents on my mother's side are still alive, and they think that my brother and I basically should just pay for her entire life. I mean, we should just pay to fix her house and i

think your grandparents should well since they're so good at spending other people's money well that's kind of what i thought and uh what the to top it all off the most irritating thing for me about the whole situation is i have a 24 year old half brother that also lives with my mother and he does nothing to help her he has no your family your family has a real thread of enablers all through it starting with your grandmother to your mother to yeah there and now they want you to join the Enabler Club. Right, and I have not. I mean, I'll do little things here and there to help my mom. I mean, if she needs 20 bucks or whatever, I'll loan her a little bit more. Brad, you are not a bad son.

Your mom is not doing well, and the only thing you can do to help her is to help her start doing well. Get the chaos out of her life and get to work and build a life and kick the little 24 year old out in time to get a dadgum job and she isn't going to do any of that and since she isn't going to do any of that i'm not giving them a stinking dime because you're not helping you're giving a drunk a drink you're one more enabler your grandmother enabled your mother or your grandfather did she was their little princess and now that she by god had to actually work 30 starting 30 years ago she never found a way to do

it and then the 24 year old steps in and she's passing on this stupidity to him now he thinks the world owes him something yeah i mean you pretty much nailed it and i that's basically i was just kind of you're not a bad guy the way the way the the best the most honorable and loving thing you can do for your mom is to help her get past all of this get a job and clean up her house and put the 24 year old out but if you can't help her do that, you're not really helping her. That simple thing. That's the way it works, dude. I'm sorry. It's hard to do though, because your grandmother's right in there with them. Gosh, what a mess. It's a nest of them, man. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you

know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. I'll see you next time.