The Ramsey Show - App - You Thought A Credit Card Company Wanted To Help You? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

МУЗЫКАЛЬНАЯ ЗАСТАВКА Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my colleague, Ken Coleman. And we're here to serve you america the number to call is 888-825-5225 and i say america but we've been getting a lot more uh international these days a lot of listeners calling in from all over the yeah you gotta be careful you just offended the globe george just like that you know you gotta we're we are very inclusive when it comes to advice about your money, your work, and your

relationships. That's right. Regardless of where you live. Come one, come all. The principles apply. Get out of debt, stay out of debt, have an emergency fund, build wealth for the future, and you're going to be okay. That works whether you're in Australia or the United States. You know what we should do this summer? We should throw a shrimp on the barbie. I think we should for our friend Luke, who joins us in Brisbane, Australia. Is that how you say it? Is it Brisbane? Did I get that right, Luke? I'm trying to be better. Yeah, that's it. That's it. It's Brisbane. Good morning. It's currently just after 7 a.m. Saturday morning.

I wish I talked like you, Luke. I gotta tell you. I really do. I feel like I'm listening to an Australian weatherman. I do. I'm going to ask you extra questions just because I want to hear you talk. Northeasterly winds coming from the south. No worries. See, I need to say, no. Coming from the south, they're northeasterly. We'll get it later.

Luke, how can we help, my man? Luke, welcome from Australia. Okay, thank you very much, gentlemen. I love what you two do, and I love what Dave does and all the team that does. I've been listening to the show now for about three or four months and I'm 21, so I'm only really just kind of getting into the whole world, big wide world of money and working and all that full time. I've been in a bit of a pickled situation at the moment.

I've just broken up out of a near two-year relationship and that's put me in a bit of a struggle. But one thing I've learned from that is, you know, the only way you can move is forward. And I basically just want to tackle the one and only debt I have and get some, basically just some life advice on where to go from there, how to use my money, just some general life advice for growing up too. Well, I've got to ask you then, did you dump or were you dumped? I was dumped. Oh, man, I was worried about that.

I'm sorry about that. How long ago did that happen? A couple of weeks now. All right. Listen, man, you're going to be okay. You'll find love again, Luke. Yeah. We've all been there, man.

Yeah. I got dumped pretty hard in college. Did you get dumped? Oh, 100%. Yeah. So, hey, you're in good company, Luke. So what's the one debt you have? All right.

So to make it easier for you guys, I've converted all my things that I think I would mention. I've converted all that from Australian dollars to US dollars. What a blessing. The one and only debt I have is a really stupid car loan. And I am currently owing about 20,000 US dollars on that. Okay. What's your income USD? USD, my income is, it ranges,000 and $55,000. What do you do? I am a long-distance truck driver. Oh, all right. Cool, cool.

So I'm looking at doing a career change and then moving internationally. Because don't get me wrong, Australia is all well and good, and it's really cool here, and there are some lovely people here. I don't know. I just don't feel like it's for me in the long run. So paint that picture for us. What are you doing and where are you living? So I live in Brisbane. I've got my debt and I'm looking at getting rid of that. And next year I have enrolled to go to aviation college and go get my commercial pilot's license. So that's the career change I wanted to do, and I've wanted to be a pilot since I was like 12, 13 years old.

Good for you. Are you going to be able to cash flow that? I am not, unfortunately. How much does it cost? It's very pricey here in the U.S. What is it in Australia? All right. So to get my commercial license plus my multi-engine rating,

which will allow me to fly aircraft with two or more engines, and also getting my instrument rating, which is probably a great necessity of flying commercially in the long run, all of that totals up to about $108,000 U.S. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds about right. That checks out. Well, we don't want you going into debt for this, Luke.

You've got to know that, right? Yeah. The way I don't necessarily know how it works over there in the U.S. I keep hearing a lot of callers call in and say they have private student loan debt from like Sally Mays or something. And I don't necessarily know much more than that. I don't know if you can get it like, I know you can get scholarships because you can get scholarships as well over here. But the way that I'm looking at doing it is getting it through the government and then paying it back through taxes.

So none of it comes out of my paycheck. However, when I go to do my tax return every year, because I don't know how it works over there, but in every pay slip I get, taxes come out of my pay automatically. So I don't have to worry about paying my tax at the end of every financial year. I do a tax return still. Correct. Yeah, if you're a W-2 employee here,

meaning your employer is going to pay that portion out, it'll get deducted and paid to the government automatically. Yes, that's standard over here. Unless you run your own business, that's standard over here. But you're saying they add your student loan payment into your taxes essentially? Yeah, you pay it off through the taxes that you pay. So it's essentially still a payment. You're just making it sort of all at once at the end of the year through your tax return. So you might owe $10,000 on your tax return. Yeah. And instead of me getting anything

back on my tax return, all of that, which I would be eligible to receive back, all of that goes into paying for what would be my student loan. I'm confused. You're saying there would never be a bill that you would owe? What if you don't get money back? That I'm unaware of. Because here in America, you don't always get a refund. I've owed many years, and you've got to pay that. It's not free.

This loan isn't free, so I don't want you to think that there's some, well, it's all paid in taxes, I'll be good. No way. But, you know, I get like a tax refund. It's pretty, most people typically get a tax refund every year. I have always gotten a tax refund every year over here. I know there's been stories where people have worked a standard 9-to-5 job, and then for some reason they owe $10,000 to the tax office.

But I've never managed to grapple my head around that. Well, regardless of how it works there, we want you to cash flow this. And if that means you've got to move slower or you've got to increase your income or you've got to sell this we want you to cash flow this. And if that means you got to move slower or you got to increase your income or you got to sell this car in order to cash flow this, that's the plan. Because taking on over a hundred grand in debt is not going to make you a better pilot and it's going to cause more stress when you get there. Yeah. Which is what I was thinking as well, whether I go through with it or whether I just delay it. Just do it at the speed of cash. Delay.

I mean, so what would it take for you to save $25,000 a year? I'm being aggressive there, but that gets you $100,000. Okay? What would it take? A young guy like you, you're driving a truck. What can you sell? $25,000 a year in four years. You got the money, and now there's no stopping you.

Before you know it, you're up flying the friendly skies. You know, flying to Nashville, coming to see us. Hey. You know. Taking us for a ride. We'll take you for a shrimp on the barbie. You do it debt-free, shrimp on the barbie free from me. Ooh.

How about that? Outback, where are we taking him? Yeah, we'll take him to Outback. Authentic. Of course. Where else would I take an Australian in the United States? Let's get the Bloomin' Onion full nine. A Bloomin' Onion, man.

Luke, thanks for the call. It was a pleasure speaking with you. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. Hey, if you like the show, do us a favor, and it's a free favor, if that's any consolation. Please consider subscribing to the show wherever you're listening or hit the follow button. Leave a review wherever you're listening

and share it with a friend. There's a lot of little buttons you can click to share. You can just send a link if you're watching on YouTube. Tell them just verbally, go check out the show wherever they listen to podcasts or get their shows. That means the world to us. You guys are our marketing plan and you do such a great job and we're so grateful for spreading the word. All right, let's get to it. Jacob is in Charlotte. Up next, Jacob, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely. So I just got hit with a pretty significant amount of debt that me and my wife are not expecting to have.

Her parents were unaware that they were taking out student loans. I'm not sure how that happened, but we just got hit with an extra $15,000 for her undergrad on top of her $15,000 for her master's that we already knew about. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to attack this, what I need to sell, what I need to keep in order to pay that off. Man, I'm sorry to figure out the best way to attack this, what I need to sell, what I need to keep in order to pay that off. Man, I'm sorry to hear that. So it sounds like there was a giant lack of communication with how the parents were, quote-unquote, paying for college. And she thought, well, they've got it taken care of. Little did she know they were taking out loans in her name.

Yeah, I think they thought they had it taken care of, too. And then we just are on the unfortunate end of that. All right. Well, it's up to you guys now. It's all in her name, right? Yeah, it is. These weren't like Parent PLUS loans that were co-signed? I think her dad's co-signed on it, but it made it clear they're not going to help.

Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Well, what's your household income now? So right now we make a combined about $110,000. We own a couple of rental houses and we net about another $15,000 with those. So it's a little over $120,000. Okay. And is this all of the debt, the consumer debt, these two student loans? So, no, she's got a car loan as well, and that's about $17,000. Okay. And then you have a bunch of mortgages.

Yeah, so we've got the two rental houses, and then we've got the house that we live in. So we have three mortgages, but those are pretty well taken care of on their own as it stands. For now, on paper. But man, you got a lot of risk in your life as a young couple. Yeah. How old are you two? We're about 25. All right. Well, the good news is making $120,000, knocking out $47,000 in debt is not a huge math equation. The question is how little can you live on and how much can you throw at the debt to knock this out as quickly as possible? And you said you're willing to sell some stuff. What do you have that you can sell? Well, I was thinking about my first thought is, you know, if we sell the house that we live in, we would net after taxes a little over $50,000. So that would knock out the debt pretty quickly, but then that would leave us in the position to have to rent or use our savings account to buy another house.

I'd rather you sell a rental before you sell the place you sleep. The only thing about that is the rental houses have a 2.7% and a 3.2% limit. Chase, if we're going to argue about interest rates... Why do you think that changes the equation? Because he'll never get a 2.7% interest rate again. I know. I was wanting him to say it.

I think it's because the cash flow on those houses is just so good that I don't want to get those up. Let's run through it. Hold those houses is just so good that I don't want to get those up. Let's run through it. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You just told me you're netting $15,000 a year. It's not much.

That's amazing cash flow to you? I mean, as a 25-year-old. No, you make $110,000. Dude, you make way more money than that. You know what $15,000 divided by 12 is? It's not very much a month. That is not amazing cash that's the profit after taxes after the mortgages are paid uh still you're acting like 15 000 is a

lot of money that is not a lot of money you could make that in a side hustle easy yeah so i just don't want you to get starry-eyed and i understand i'm not trying to beat up on you, we're having some fun, but man, people are just get so stuck on these interest rates instead of thinking about a bigger picture, which is how do we live with no debt and our greatest wealth building tool back in our life, our income? Instead of, hey, what's the spread on this

and what's the interest rate and I can make more if I invest this. And if you can figure that out sooner rather than later, because you're 25, you got lots of time on your hands to let compound growth and wise decisions guide you to some big wealth. But right now, the truth is you guys can pay off this debt. You're looking for the shortcut of selling your own house to do that. You don't need to.

What you need to do is sacrifice and have some behavior change. Well, should we should we cut into our saving like our personal savings account to pay off some of it? Well, now you need emergency funds for these two rental properties, don't you? Yeah. So we can't necessarily just deplete our savings because you guys have, you know, this has some consequence when you get rental properties and you have risk and you got to be ready to cover those. What I don't think you see is, Jacob, is you're over leveraged right now. And George is going, you guys make enough money to pay this off, and your first response was, should we cut into our savings? It's like you're not getting it, and I'm not being tough on you.

I'm just saying you have the income, you have the ability to pay the $47,000 off pretty quickly with some hustle. Even if you don't agree with this on the rental properties, you got yourself in a lot of risk. You don't have any margin right now and you're celebrating $15,000 being the kickoff of those rental properties. So something's got to change. So you have to decide what do you want to change. But paying off $47,000 at the income that you guys have is not hard to do. Without selling any property. Yeah, you don't have to sell anything. Just get hustling. Pay it off.

Cut expenses. Okay. Make some more money. Look at it this way. You throw $5,000 at the debt. It's gone in 10 months, correct? Yes. Do you have $5,000 of margin to throw at the debt per month?

Yeah, I think we could make that work. It's just, yeah, I love saving money, but right now we need to get rid of the debt. But you also called us saying, dude, I'm overwhelmed right now. We just found out we have an extra $15,000 of debt. So to tell me that this debt isn't weighing on you, whether it's the mortgages of the consumer debt would be a lie. And so I'm just trying to get you to look at the reality of it going, we can solve this pretty quickly, either with our income or by selling one of these

properties. And we're going to lose our precious cashflow, which will knock it, I'm guessing in half, right? Yeah. Yeah. But you'll be back. If you do this a different way or the right way, you'll be back to being a real estate mogul paying cash for properties with some sweet cash flow. Yeah. But right now you guys are super young, over leveraged, like Ken mentioned, and trying to figure out some kind of loophole to get out of this debt. But you're the solution, your income. And Jacob, I want to challenge something you just said, because I do think it's the way you're thinking about all of this. You're a smart guy, hard worker.

You're going to be successful. We're not worried about you. But you said, I just love saving money. How can you love saving money when you're overleveraged and you're giving your money away to other people? So I don't think that you're a contrarian, but I'm just trying to point out that that's what I'm hearing. The audience is hearing you going, I just love saving money. That's why I don't want that you're a contrarian, but I'm just trying to point out that that's what I'm hearing. The audience is hearing you going, I just love saving money.

That's why I don't want to pay off my debt. Does that make any sense when you hear it back? Yeah, I think when I think about it, I love saving money so that I can invest it in other places rather than spend it on consumer things. Right, but my point still holds. The best way for you to save money is to eliminate debt. Yeah, add up those payments. More margin. If you could invest all of those payments instead, look at what that would turn into over the next 35 years of your life, and that will cause you to get out of debt real quick. Yep. Margin, my friend. Margin.

Really think about personal financial margin, not the margin that they talk about in Wall Street movies and TikToks and all this. I mean, real financial margin for you. You got to understand that concept. When you get that, that's freedom, game-changing freedom. You guys got kids, Jacob? No, not yet. As soon as you do, you're going to be thankful that you got no payments. Because go back and listen to some of the calls we've taken where people are going, we have our second kid on the way, but we have all this debt, and I want her to stay home, but it's really hard for us right now.

Man, you're too successful and smart to ever deal with that problem. And so this is very solvable, but there's only two options, and they both require sacrifice and behavior change. George. So pick your poison. I got three teenagers. They're very expensive. I can't get them out of the house fast enough right now.

I'm kidding. I'm kidding, kids. Your son Ty could be on Man vs. Food. That guy could down a ribeye pretty quick. I'm just telling you, the amount of food I go through is insane. It would frighten you young parents. Be ready. Have some financial peace.

That's always the best plan of attack. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Ken Coleman. Hey, the Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway is going on right now. You could win one of our $500 weekly prizes or the grand prize of $5,000. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com slash giveaway. You can enter every day to increase your chances of winning. And while you're there, be sure to check out our $12 sale on some of our bestselling books, tools, and products at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Ryan joins us up next in New York.

Ryan, what's going on? Hi, George and Ken. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. My question is, I have an $8,000 bill that just came up and it needs to be paid by the end of the year. It's basically a look-back policy that needs to be paid for liability. So what I'm trying to figure out, could I just simply take the money out of my money market account?

I have about $10,000 in my money market account, which I kind of consider to be my emergency fund, which has dwindled down over the years and it's down to about $10,000. Or would I be better off decreasing my 401k contributions or reduce the amount that I'm paying extra on my mortgage each month. And then the other option is if I have an open $25,000 money equity or home equity that I could take at 8% of that expense.

So we're going to go into debt to pay off debt. That doesn't track. Exactly. Yeah, let's not do that one. I would just, if the only cash you have is that 10K liquid to your name,

is that what you're telling me? Well, yeah, as far as something I could take out with any penalties. I mean, it's basically

just a money market account that's spendable cash. Okay. Yeah, I would use that, but you immediately need to restock that and get it to a full

emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Okay. Is that the only debt you have currently, other than your house? I just, my home, I have that down to under $150,000. So that's something that I'm hoping to pay off within the next couple of years. But yeah, no other significant debt beyond that.

Just a typical credit card that come in, but I always pay them in full every month. I'd cut those cards up, man. They have not been serving you up to this point, and they will not in the future. So that's going to be your best bet. I've never paid any interest on them. I just use them for groceries and gas and things like that. Well, you can never pay a dime in interest and still retire broke. That's America for you, and that's where people are at.

And so it's not, you know, I'm proud of you. I'd rather you never pay a dime in interest than pay thousands, but it's not a wealth-building tool, and it just makes credit card companies rich. Yeah. So without a credit card, it's one of ours paying for their typical expenses with gasoline and groceries and Amazon.

I mean, how can you live without a credit card at all? Well, I've done it for a decade now, and I've lived to tell the tale, and here's how I do it. I use a debit card. You can use, if you're worried about privacy and that kind of thing, you can use a website called privacy.com to create virtual debit cards that you can then, it's tied to your account, but it's a virtual debit card number that if was stolen, you'd be fine. So that's one thing. And if your debit card has a Visa or MasterCard logo on it,

then you have their zero liability policy with your debit card. Yeah. And so you're fine. But as far as the bill, pay that down, get the emergency fund back up to where it needs to go, then begin investing 15% if you're not already. Are you there? Or are you not investing that much? In which account? Your retirement accounts. Oh, the retirement.

I've been maxing it for a couple of decades now. Oh, good. Okay. Yeah. No, I've maxed it. My one priority is to always make sure I'm maximizing my 401k every month. Wonderful. So beyond your 15%, I assume you have a great income if you're doing that.

I'm doing okay. You know, we don't have crazy expenses. I have no need to travel, you know, that kind of thing. We pretty much just have a list of priorities, and my priority is to obviously be comfortable in retirement. And having no debt. And so your next thing to solve there is getting rid of that mortgage. So beyond investing, I'd start attacking that mortgage once we have the emergency fund,

once this debt's paid off. And so that will set you on the path. So as far as my second option, what I mentioned, possibly decreasing those 401 contributions or maybe not paying the extra $500 a month on the mortgage, would you stay away from that as well? I would stop paying extra on the mortgage for now to restock the emergency fund. But right now, I would instantly just get rid of this bill with that cash that you have on hand and restock it. It's not worth pausing investing when this is a very quick temporary thing. But I would pause the mortgage payment until you have that six months saved in expenses. That's going to give you some great peace as you head into retirement, and it will allow you to never have to go back into debt again and not have to worry about these ankle biters that come up.

So thank you for the call, Ryan. Appreciate it, man. Aiden is up next in Dallas, Texas. What is happening, Aiden? Yes, sir. So I am 15. I have around $25,000 in cash and $10,000 in equity. And I'm not sure where to go from here.

Wow, 15. How'd you get the cash? So I've started with $ and since i was about 12 and i've just had this thing for dirt bikes and then ever since i bought my first dirt bike for 400 i've been kind of flipping them as of now and now i have 25 000 from flipping their bikes flipping dirt bikes heck of a story give me a quick rundown on how much you're spending and then and much it takes to fix them and then flip them. What's the average? What would you say? So right now I'm averaging around $1,000 to $2,000 in each flip. My most recent one was actually I made, so I spent $5,400 and I made $7,000 from it. Nice.

I sold it for $12,000. Attaboy. That's phenomenal. Wow, George. How about this? I'm very impressed. So you have this entrepreneur bug in you, it sounds like. You may not go the traditional route, considering you made $25,000 at 15.

Yes, sir. How many years did this take like you've been doing this for a while so yes there are four years that's picked up this year mainly the rest three months is honestly when i made the most because i've averaged around two to three thousand and then i finally got into it like mainly i'm like okay i really want to do this and now i'm making i'm in pretty good profit. Now I have 25,000 plus four dirt bikes right now. Yes, sir. Fantastic. And what's your equity? And you said you had 10K equity? Is that in the bikes? Yes, sir. Okay. Well, you're asking us what should I

do with this money that's sitting in the account? Yes, sir. Well, for starters, I would just keep it in a high yield savings account for now so that it can grow at a decent rate for you, 4% or 5%, while you decide what's next. Now, at 15, truthfully, you've got no clue what the next 10 years looks like. But one of the keys is to stay debt-free. Yes, sir. And so if you can continue buying these in cash and flipping them, that's going to be your best bet. But what does the next five years look like for Aiden? Does he want to be flipping dirt bikes at 20, 25?

Or are you wanting to go to college and get into a career field? Yes, sir. So what I'm going to want to do, my brother went into the Air Force. I don't know if I want to follow him or if I just want to kind of chill and do this as a little side hobby. But what do you want to do with your life? That's my question. Yes, sir. So that's a big one. I don't know yet.

Yeah, you're 15. You're 15. Uncle George is being very intense right now. That's so intense. That's a tough one to answer. He could follow this path. He could still be selling dirt bikes at 50. I don't know. He loves this, but it's not the dirt bikes at $50,000. I don't know. I'm just wondering. He loves this, but it's not the dirt bikes itself, necessarily. So let me pull it back a little bit really quick.

Are mom and dad buying you a car? Do you have to buy a car? Yes, they're buying. They are buying you a car? Yes, sir. All right, so you don't need the money for a car. I can tell you don't need money for girls or spending cash. You're fine.

All right? So the savings account. So what's next? It would be a college or some type of a trade school or some type of training. At 15, you just don't know and you don't need to know yet. But I just got a sneaky suspicion you're going to be an entrepreneur, my friend. And please don't let anybody talk you into college unless it is the only way or the best way to do something, because you're already showing us what the American dream is. There's folks with a business degree that don't know what you know. They can't make the

money you're making if you stuck them out there on the main street and said, figure it out. They couldn't do what you're doing. And I can just tell you that's the truth. So I think George is right. Does he invest a little bit? A little bit? I would open a Roth IRA if I were you, Aiden. You got earned income. I would. So that's one way to do it. I'd max one of those out for the year. And 45 years from now, you're going to call back and say, dude, I'm a millionaire just because of that account alone. So that's it. Invest that Roth and then save, save, save, save, save. The more you save, the more options you have, young man. Yeah. If you can have $100,000 at 22 or you could pay cash for your first home,

I mean, these are the goals that we all have. I wish I could go back in time and become Aiden. I wouldn't push him to college at all. I'd say go find out how to flip something else. That guy's going to be a multimillionaire. Thanks for the call, Aiden. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13, 16. But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Charles Spurgeon once said, deciding what not to do is as important as deciding what to do.

Wise words. Charles Spurgeon. You know who that is? Oh, yeah. All right. One of the greats. He called him the prince of preachers. Oh, yeah.

I like that. I mean, him and C.S. Lewis are up there, the all-time greats. C.S. Lewis is not a preacher. Well, I mean, as far as the writing goes. All I see. Their writing is masterful. All right. That works. Thank you, Ken. C.S. Lewis is not a preacher. Well, I mean, as far as the writing goes. The writing is masterful. Alright, that works. Thank you, Ken. It's fun. You know, I'm a

technical. I can't help myself on the history stuff. I got too nerdy. Well, you're a preacher's kid, Ken. But I get what you're saying. You were saying overall voices of the faith. You could beat me in sword drills, that's for sure. Boy, couldn't I. Alright, let's get to the phones. Leslie is up next in Birmingham, Alabama.

Leslie, what's going on with you? Oh, did I screw it up? There we go, Leslie. Hi, how are y'all? Thank y'all so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Yes. So really, it's just been difficult over the last few years to try to figure out the right mindset around this. And I know I'm messing up because I'm going into debt. So I'm trying to get a hold of that. And I actually called in a few weeks ago, so Ken may remember me.

But basically, my son has some health conditions. And it's just hard to know the right balance between being frugal and doing things that are good for his health. Like, for example, you know, there's the whole idea of red dyes linked to hyperactivity. So, okay, remove red dyes from food. That means you're going to spend a little more in some cases. Just little things like that, you know, asthma, get a waterproof mattress cover, that kind of thing. Little things like that. It's just how you deal with the anxiety and how you balance quality of life for your kid and being frugal. And it's just I can't – it's hard to figure out what's essential and what's not

because you want the best for your child, but you also don't want to be in debt, you know. Yeah. Well, let me step back then, and I understand this need as a parent. I really do. Because you go, you read an article this day, you read an article the next day, you see something on Instagram, and it's like, this is good, this is good. And you go, I just want to give my boy the best. I want to give him the best shot.

And it's going to wear you out. And you can get a different opinion on something different every day. For instance, we all see this in the news. One day, bacon will kill you. The next day, bacon is the key to long life. Who really knows? I don't know. I always stay in the middle because I just keep eating bacon.

So I'm in good shape regardless because if that's how I die, it's a good way to go, eating a piece of bacon. Now, I got distracted. The question I have for you as a mom is, are you doing the best you can with what the doctors are saying that you need to be doing and providing him that care? I feel that I am. You are. It's really just trying to go above and beyond, you know, take advantage of the latest research and all that. I know, but my point is I think there's a point where you have to go,

I'm doing the best I can, and what we're doing is enough. You are enough. You're doing what the doctors have said. At some point, you can't live in fear. You've got to live with faith, and you've got to move forward. And I totally understand where you're coming from. But you can drive yourself crazy. So, Leslie, let's get tactical.

What is causing you to go into debt? Well, it's, you know, I mean, there's car repairs that I didn't, you know, have any savings for. That's kind of piled up on credit cards. And then moving expenses. But then a big part of it is just monthly expenses that I can't afford. I had a lot lower income. So what's your income now? I just got a better job, which is great, but it's 70, but I have a lot of debt.

What kind of debt do you have? 75 in student loans and 25 in credit cards. But how much of that credit card debt is these sheets, this bed system? Yeah, I'm just wondering how much is your son versus just life has hit you, because I don't want you to confuse the two. Yes, I've actually been wondering that too. I should probably go and, I mean, I don't know, go and analyze the accounts and see what all.

I feel like at least half of it, though, is buying really good quality food, air filters, supplements, things like that. It is. It is. That's why you started the call that way. That's what's going on. Now, we've found a problem, George, is she doesn't actually know. Well, that's where the budget's going to come into play.

And did we gift you every dollar last time you spoke to Ken? No, but I actually do have a budgeting app that I'm trying out. It's not every dollar, but I'm giving YNAB a shot, but I might go to every dollar. Boo. I'm going to gift you every dollar premium because it's going to come with all the sweet, sweet features. Why did I not give it to her? Why did I? Who was I on with, Leslie?

You're getting the heat of the moment. Who was Ken on with when you spoke? Let's see. It was Rachel. That makes sense. You gave me the get clear assessment. Oh, I gave you that. It was Rachel. Oh, that makes sense. You gave me the clear assessment. Oh, I gave you that. It was more for the career side.

I gave you for the work side, but we should have given you the budget. Okay, I wanted to make sure. It's probably Rachel's fault. She's not as giving as I am, so I think that's probably her fault. I'm kidding, folks. It's a joke.

Well, Leslie, once we get off the line, hang on. Skyler will gift you that every dollar premium app per year, but here's what you're going to do. You're going to list out every single expense and you're going to do an audit. This is not just what I want it to be. You're going to match it to reality of what, you know, what things are actually costing you. So part of that is looking at your bank statement and going, oh my gosh, I spent $1,200 on food. And oh, I forgot that subscription we were still

paying for. And so there's things that we can cut back on that's going to help. But the glaring issue here is the $100,000 in consumer debt, not the fact that we have to buy organic groceries. And so part of this is, truthfully, we got to cut up the credit card. It's become a plastic crutch that is not serving you. And if push comes to shove, how would you cover expenses if you didn't have the credit card? You would cut back in other areas, or you'd go make more money, right? Yes, and I've actually

just gotten on a plan that's going to, with a non-profit, and the credit cards are closed, and it's a much lower interest rate, so I just got a payout. Oh, no, oh, no, this sounds like a scam, Leslie. Did you get in touch with one of these debt relief companies? No, no. It's a nonprofit. It was actually recommended to me by Chase. And it doesn't ruin your credit or anything. By Chase, the credit card company.

Hold on, hold on. You thought a credit card company existed to serve you in any way, shape, or form? To help you get out of debt? Well, it's a late payment. Listen to that. Just listen back to what you just said. They don't make any late payments. It doesn't mess up your credit at all. I just, I'm very concerned about what this program is. And I would go read the fine print to figure out how you got screwed. Cause I'm almost positive that it's not going to help you.

But the key here is I want you out of this credit card debt. You may prove me wrong, but I've just never seen one of these programs that actually helps people get out of debt any faster than your own. The solution is Leslie and her income and her behavior change, not some gift from chase bank. So it's a nonprofit, but yeah. Well,

okay. Here's the deal. What George is saying is right. I want you focused on the budget because you got to know how much of your It's a nonprofit, but yeah. Well, okay. Here's the deal. What George is saying is right. I want you focused on the budget because you've got to know how much of your expenses are going to doing everything you can for your little guy. And then you've got to be able to start walking through that with your doctor and going, we've done the best with what we have to know and what they're going to keep doing and treat him that way. You can't pay for every theory or every hack or whatever to make his life. You just can't.

You're limiting. And if you're limited, he's limited. If you're stressed, he's stressed. And the best thing you can do for that little guy is to get out of this debt and have margin. And so that needs to be your A1, of course, while taking care of him and doing what you can do. But this is going to become a line item in the budget. The groceries might be a little more expensive

because we can't buy the processed junk food anymore. We've got to get actual fruits and veggies and meats and whatever. And you might need a bigger line item for shopping to get some of these things. But I don't want you to feel like this is a cycle that's forever. You get the waterproof mattress cover once.

Yeah. You know? And so the bigger thing is getting this getting out of this debt getting a full emergency fund in place then making 70k we can manage to cover those expenses for this guy and get him get him to a better place health-wise so we're wishing you the best leslie in this debt payoff journey but read the fine print with whatever i just don't trust Chase with a 39 and a half foot pole. And I don't think you should either. Hey, nice Christmas song reference. I just, thank you. Well, that's what the credit card companies are. They're the Grinches.

Stealing your Christmas joy. You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch. And now we're off the air. Thanks, FCC. I'm just kidding. Ken got so nervous. No, I wasn't nervous at all. I just didn't understand the joke.

That was actually pretty good. I'm not going to lie. I thought it was pretty decent, given the fact I didn't know I had to prepare for that voice today. The studio audience all enjoyed it. I'm getting cheers and thumbs up. Don't encourage him, America. Thank you all very much. Hey, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to Ken Coleman, all the folks in the booth,

and you, America. We'll be back before you know it. In the meantime, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously.