The Ramsey Show - App - You Won't Win as a Leader Unless You Love People (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 3, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show. When dad is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is going to be Josh in Florida. Hi, Josh. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave. How can I help? I am interested to know on books that you would suggest for not only your team but your leadership and having a list of your favorites, maybe five or six books or something that you would really suggest to your team and your leadership. Well, there are several that our leadership team are required to read,

just so that we're all on the same page, not because I give required reading, but just so that we are aligned in our values and the way we look at things. And then generally speaking, what I do is I find authors that I align with, and I pretty much read everything they write then. And of course, some of their stuff's always better than some of the other things. But I read everything that John Maxwell writes, if I can. He writes an awful lot, though. He writes a book a minute. But John's a friend, but he's also probably one of the premier writers and thinkers in the leadership space. His number one book would be one I would start you with. I actually wrote the foreword for a licensed version that we sell and use here,

21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. And it's probably his premier. It's his best-selling book out of all of them, and he's probably had 30 or 40 best-sellers. I mean, his 360 360 degree leader is a good one too uh developing the leaders around you is a good one too he's got a bunch of good ones but that 21 irrefutables is definitely one that's required here um i read everything my friend jim collins writes he wrote the book good to great and and that's the classic of his.

His latest one, Great by Choice, is excellent. How the Mighty Fall is excellent. Built to Last is excellent. That's his four biggest publications. He just did a monograph, which is a chapter on the flywheel concept out of that that's worth reading, too. It's only 37 pages. Which book is that in? It's a monograph. It's called The Flywheel, and that's by Jim Collins as well. It just came out. But it's like, I don't know, $9,

$19, whatever they sell for. But it's just a chapter, basically. It's a commentary on stuff he pulled from all of his other writings. But good to great, it's absolutely stellar. It's a commentary on stuff he pulled from all of his other writings. But good to great, it's absolutely stellar. It's absolutely stellar. I read everything Simon Sinek has written. Simon's also a friend. And his book, Start With Why, is a classic already.

It's one of the best-selling, most viewed TED Talks ever done. His new book is... Did you say Simon Speller? I'm sorry? Did you say Simon Speller? Sinek sorry? Did you say Simon Speller? Sinek. S-I-N-E-K. Simon Sinek. And his first book, Start With Wire, his first big book was that one.

His new one that comes out next week, I've already read it, an advanced copy is called The Infinite Game, and it absolutely lights out an incredible book. There's some really good thinking in that book. I read everything Malcolm Gladwell wrote. My favorite of his is Outliers. Very, very good stuff. I would put Rabbi Lappin's book, Rabbi Daniel Lappin, Thou Shall Prosper, on the list.

I'll warn you ahead of time, it's a tome, but you'll be glad you read it. The problem with it is there's a quotable quote on every page, and it's really thick. But his wisdom is amazing. He's an amazing thinker, amazing critical thought patterns in his brain. But John Maxwell, Simon Sinek, Malcolm Gladwell, the Rabbi Daniel Lappin, those guys are, you just, I just kind of get in, you know, I get in somebody's stuff, and then unless they just go sideways and get a little crazy on me, and then I'll quit reading them. But, you know, by and large, those guys have been the backbone of a lot of the stuff that we've used around here

to build out our place with, and they've all become friends, except Malcolm. I don't know Malcolm, but I hope to someday. If you want to learn marketing stuff, probably the best marketing mind on the planet right now is Seth Godin. His book, Tribes, is absolutely stellar. It's absolutely a real grasp on things. Great marketing book out right now, too, by my friend Donald Miller called Story Brand. The use of story in marketing.

It's just incredible. Yeah, I read like a maniac. I love books. Books have changed my life. Information in books have changed my life. And if I'm interviewing someone that says they're a leader or they're interviewing for a leadership role, and it takes them more than about five seconds to come up with a book they've read lately,

which means that you're making it up, then they don't get hired because you're not a leader if you're not a reader. It's just impossible. If you're not constantly growing and staying ahead of this business curve out here, you just can't keep up. The stuff I learned 20 years ago, most of it's useless. I mean, there's some concepts that are back there, how to treat people right or something like that. I mean, you know, I read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie when I was 14 years old. Well, that still works. You can still go back and read that book.

That's a good one. You know, there's all kinds of stuff like that. But you just stay in this self-improvement space, stay in the leadership space and keep reading and read people that, that are leadership books that teach you to treat people like people, not units of revenue, not to be chopped. I don't, I don't read people who do write leadership books and they, their whole thing's about chopping people. That's not a real leader.

That's just a boss. And so you gotta, you gotta love your people. You're not gonna real leader. That's just a boss. And so you've got to love your people. You're not going to win unless you do. So good question. It's fun, fun. Thanks for letting me answer that. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Eight out of ten of your friends, neighbors, and coworkers are living paycheck to paycheck. They might have enough for today's bills, but if there's an emergency, they're going to have a problem. And if you want to stand by and watch all this happen, you can. But if you want to get involved and help, help other people that you love win with money, become a Financial Peace University coordinator. Thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of regular folks have become Financial Peace University Coordinators, and that leads the class and allows us to teach all those people how to get out of debt, how to be on a budget, how to handle everything.

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Let me be clear. If you have a family, if there are people depending on your income, now is the time to have term life insurance. I don't care if you're 20, 30, 40, 50, or whatever. Your age is less important than your financial situation. If you have debt and a lack of savings, it makes no sense to risk your family's financial well-being based on the cost of a term life policy. Term life rates are just plain cheap, even if you're not in perfect health. And the best way to compare those rates is through Zander Insurance. Zander only sells the plans I recommend and shops among the top companies

to find the best rates and the right coverage for you. Call 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com. You got no excuse to put this off, folks. Bad things happen to people all the time, regardless of age. And it's your responsibility to deal with this. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Isabel is here from California. Hi, America. We're glad you're here.

Isabel is here from California. Hi, Isabel. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm wondering if it's wise for our family to go from two full-time incomes to one, and for me to become a stay-at-home mom if my husband gets a job that he's applying for in a cheaper area and we move there. Well, I guess the simple question is, can you live on his income? I've been doing the math, and because of the cost, I mean, I live in Orange County, and so the cost of living out here is a lot more.

And, I mean, with what we have saved, we could buy a house tomorrow there. Where is there? It's in the high desert. Where? The high desert. The high desert, okay. So it's a little more inland. So it would be a big change in culture and scenery,

and a lot of people have kind of talked to me about that. But right now I have a five-month-old son, and he's in daycare. And we do hope to have another child. And if we're working in the way that we have been, both of us working full-time, working the same industry, and we don't have regular hours, I feel like we're never going to see our kids. And so for the sake of our family, we're thinking that this could be a big move for us in that I guess we're moving to a a different area but we'll be able to have

a more wholesome life okay well i love that i love your goal and where you're headed it's just the math has to work so right so listen just because the goal is noble doesn't automatically mean the math works so the goal is definitely noble and automatically mean the math works. So the goal is definitely noble, and I'm with you, and it's what Sharon and I did. We made the decision to live on less because she wasn't working after Denise was born. And so 34 years ago, she became a full-time mom. Now she's a full-time Mimi and whatever else she does, but anything she wants now. But anyway, you know, you just have to run the math out, and you have to be able to run an actual budget on what he's actually bringing home, and your family is actually able to live well.

And it sounds like you can. What you're describing sounds like it's doable. Yes. And I think our plan is to have me continue to, because we work in a school system, and so to have me continue to work all the way until, let's say that he gets this job now and he starts in November. But the temporary is not the issue. What we're talking about is sustainability. Yes. We're talking about as you go make this move and when the dust settles on this,

you're sitting at home with a baby and he is working and we are living on the income that he brings home. And we're not going into debt and we're not eating up savings. Yes. We can actually make it on that dollar figure. And if you can, then that's exactly what you should do because it's what you want to do. And it's why you work, and life is good. So have at it.

Yes, you should do all that. But just my point is don't rationalize this. Don't delude yourself. Don't become delusional when you're looking at this sweet little baby and you go a little crazy. You know, and, you know, the math has to work or you make a mess for your family. I mean, denial is not a river in Egypt. People do it all the time.

So don't get into denial about this because it's something you want to do so badly. And it works. And I think you're going to be able to do it. I mean, I don't know the numbers on this exactly. I didn't hear them all. You didn't give them all to me. But I think you continue to gather them up.

All I'm warning you against is this is a highly emotional topic and to be very clear-headed about and wise about your decision here. So you don't get your family in a pinch. And you come back later and you go, yeah, we ran up $30,000 in credit card debt because I wanted to stay home with the baby. No, see, that's just stupid butt stuff there. You weren't staying in control. You weren't being wise. But I think you can.

I think you're going to make it. But be very, very mathematical about this. Tyler is with us in Maryland. Hi, Tyler. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So I just started my baby steps. I read your book back in January of this year, and that's when I started my baby steps. I did pay off my car. Good. Thanks. I did pay off my car and one of my credit cards, so I have two credit cards and a student loan left.

However, I am a teacher right now, making about $51,000 a year. I am looking for a job to get back into the IT world, but I haven't been able to land something just yet. So just in case I do end up having to stay in my teacher role for a little bit longer than I would like to, I'm trying to figure out how do I go about, what's the best way to go about saving to prepare for the summer while also paying significantly on my debt. Last year, when I went out for the summertime, I did work a couple part-time jobs, but I still found myself struggling. So I'm just trying to get some advice on how to save for the summer, but at the same time still pay a big chunk on my debt um you can uh but i think what you probably just have is a better work plan for the summer

okay you know you're just you don't have great jobs and you know set yourself up some tutoring you probably make better money doing that than about anything and uh you know set yourself up a few customers or clients or former kids or former students or whatever. Just put the word out around the area that you do tutoring in your area of specialization, and you probably make a ton of money doing that in the summer if you don't make the transition by then. But most teachers, if they're in this situation, work. They continue to add to their income through the summer. Now, once you're debt-free, you don't have to do it.

You can do whatever you want to do, right? But right now we're still trying to clear these student loan debts and the other things, and you've made really good progress. So, yeah, I don't want you to slow your earning down through the summer. I want you to speed it up through the summer and between now and and the summer, too, go ahead and add some more earning to it. Go ahead and pick up some tutoring now while you're doing this other stuff. And let's jack up how much you're putting on the debt. Good question.

Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Josh is with us in Florida. Hey, Josh, how are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Thank you so much for being God's hands and feet and using a Ph.D. in DUMV to help people. You're nice. How can I help?

Well, I was wanting to get your advice on how can I clearly but lovingly encourage my mom to get out of debt. How old are you? I am 20 years old. And I know your rule. I've been listening to you for a long time about the dirty diaper rule that once somebody has changed your diapers, they don't want to have your advice on money. It's close, but yeah, okay.

Well, so I know I'm kind of fighting an uphill battle here and i know that i alone can't convince her to sort of get out of debt but i was just wondering what helping her what really helping her would look like what do you uh what is your financial situation uh i am in i am close to being done with Baby Step 3. I am a junior in college, and a little background, my parents have been so, so gracious to me, including financially, and they prepaid for my college tuition. And right now I'm here on scholarships and grants that are paying for my living expenses. So God has blessed me financially, and I couldn't be more grateful.

That's wonderful. Okay. Well, you're probably not going to have a lot of credibility with her for you to instruct her. Yes, sir. It would be highly unusual for a 20-year-old to be in that position. So it would be an unusual relationship with your mom for you to be in that position. What you can do is you can talk to her about what's happening with you, and you can tell your story,

and how when you weren't working a plan and the debt was starting to creep up on you, you were scared. And now that you've got it pushed back, you're not scared anymore. And, Mom, if you ever wanted to know how to do that stuff, I love to show you i know it's hard to hear stuff from a 20 year old but man i'm having so much fun and this stuff's working for me and just tell her your story don't don't wag your finger at her and if you know of anybody with credibility in her life that would speak to her on this subject they might get her ear this This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Sarah is in Illinois. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for having me on today. Sure. What's up?

So I am a college senior. I'll be graduating in December, and I have accepted a job offer from a company in Florida, so I'll be moving from Illinois to Florida here soon. I'm just questioning whether or not it's more economical for me to buy a house or to continue renting. Are you out of debt? So my boyfriend will be moving with me, and we each together have a combined total of less than $5,000 worth of debt.

So I only have about $1,000 of student loan debt. Okay. Well, you don't buy a house with someone that you're not married to. If you're going to buy a house and he's going to be your roommate, you know, that's your choice. But you don't never buy a house with both of you on the house. Okay. Unless you're married. You're going to get yourself into a real pickle.

And I would never buy a house until I was debt-free and had your emergency fund in place and had your down payment. Okay. And how much do you recommend for a down payment if we're first-time homeowners? Well, we aren't anything until we're married. There is no we. Right. Okay. Okay.

Don't buy a house with him unless you're married to him. If you get married, then we would be first-time homebuyers. Otherwise, you are going to be a first-time homebuyer. But, you know, as much as you can put down is the best thing. But the, you know, ideal and probably not in reach is 20% down. And 20% down is very hard to do, but that helps you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance, and that's the, you know, that keeps you from paying, that's basically foreclosure insurance, and it keeps you from paying $50 to $75 a month per $100,000 borrowed, and so it just saves you a lot of money on insurance that's

useless. It doesn't do anything for you. It's for the mortgage company. But if you can't get the 20% down, don't do anything but a conventional loan. And don't do anything that is more than a 15-year fixed rate where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay. And one more time, don't buy a house with someone you're not married to. Really, really don't buy a house with someone you're not married to. Really, really don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to. Rachel is in Florida.

Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me. Certainly. How can I help? So I just want to start off and say that I'm debt-free. I'm living at home, and I'm saving towards my emergency fund.

My question today is more about do I go back to school this coming fall or to save some more money until I have enough money like for a possible sinking fund for the second year of my schooling? I don't understand your choices. Say again. Oh, sorry. So I'm looking to go back to school. Right. The first time I went to school, I really didn't know what I was going to do,

and luckily my parents were able to cash flow with the order prepaid. And this come around, like with the profession that I'm doing now, has led me to wanting to go to occupational therapy assistant program with the hopes of being occupational therapist in the future. I wanted to go to Schlewett, and I have some assets. I have someone else that I'm thinking about, too. Like, I have a boyfriend who's willing to relocate with me to help me achieve this goal.

Help you what? My question is really, achieve this goal of going back to what? Achieve the school. Achieve the school. Oh, the school. G-O-A-L. I'm sorry. How is he going to help? We're going to move over there together. I live in Orlando. How is he helping you

in school? Living together. So he wouldn't be paying for my school at all. I've heard you before. It would be more of a matter of emotional support. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Good. All right. I'm a little nervous. It's okay. It's all right. So you have enough money in your assets to go to school? Well, the program I'm looking at, the actual, like the amount in total cost would be about $10,000.

I'm more concerned with the living cost because i know what you're going to say that i need a bigger shovel and i have like a an income problem because i work um for the county and i approximately make about um 1200 per month so okay it's kind of low all right so how much money do you have in savings and that you can use towards school? So I have three areas. I have a benefits management account that has about approximately $27,500 in it. $27,500? Yep. And you said benefits management account.

You can use that for school without penalties? I want to say so my father passed and um that was some state farm like health insurance or the life insurance policy that he lost that i've had that and since his passing and then i um i have a money market account that has 26,000. So you have the money to do this, don't you? Yeah. I mean, you should be able to, with that amount of money, you should be able to pay for a couple years to finish this school up, right? Yeah, I think I'm more scared. Okay, lay out, there's just two numbers, okay?

There's what it's going to cost for you to go school and finish, and there's how much you have. And I think you have enough. But you're going to have to add it up and verify that, and then you won't be scared anymore. But if you get ready to buy something that's $50,000 and you have $50,000, well, there's nothing to be scared of. And you would just walk straight through it.

Is there something else going on here maybe? I don't know that's causing you to hesitate or be scared or whatever else. But that's something to think about. Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It is a the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call.

Kelsey's on Twitter. Dave, my stepsister's buying a house, and my stepmom, her mom, is co-signing the mortgage with her. Both of them told me not to tell my dad. So I'm torn. I'm in the middle of this now, and I don't know what to do not to tell my dad. So I'm torn. I'm in the middle of this now, and I don't know what to do. I love my dad. Do I tell him or honor what they asked of me? I do not allow people to dictate to me my integrity.

And you deceiving your father, you're participating in them deceiving your father, you're participating in them deceiving your father, and these two goobs need to be ratted out. Obviously, your dad has some sense, and these two don't, and they're about to have a come-to-Jesus meeting when your dad finds out. But, you know, sorry you don't get to tell me i can't tell somebody something when you were asking me to participate in your deception i'm not going to participate in your lie you don't get to tell me lie you don't get to tell me to participate in deception so that's not an option and so you

shouldn't have told me if you didn't want dad to know you shouldn't tell me and by the way you shouldn't be lying to your husband lady so um sorry but yeah i think i tell him about 30 seconds um don't take great glee in it we're not trying to be smart alex you're trying to bust up in somebody's problem here you You didn't invite this. They did. And that's the process you're going to have to deal with. So, hey, thanks for the call. Thanks for following me on Twitter, that is. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 12, 11,

Those who work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies have no sense. Vidal Sassoon said, The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. April is in Tennessee. Hi April, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi Dave, pleasure to talk to, sir. You too. What's up? About four years ago, my husband was laid off, and he rolled over his IRA to our credit union IRA. But they split out part of the IRA into an IRA accumulation account. And I didn't know if that had the same implications or restrictions if you were to withdraw that money.

Yes. Or, okay. Yeah, it's all the same. We just started. Okay. I don't know why they would split it out. I guess they just put it into two different kinds of investments. And by the way, I would probably look at moving all of that.

Investing money in a credit union or a bank is usually a very bad idea. Okay. Because you're just not going to get any rate you're probably not getting any any rate of return on the thing at all i would get with a smart investor pro and move it into some good mutual funds inside of an ira but yeah you're it sounds like they just put some of it in a crummy savings account and maybe some of it in a mutual fund but you don't want to buy mutual funds through a bank or credit union. You want to buy them from a good mutual fund broker that is in the business. Brittany is with us. Brittany's in Florida. Hi, Brittany. How are you? I'm doing good, and you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? So my question is, how do I stop and settle federal student loan debt if my wages are being garnished tomorrow? And two, is it wise to quit? That way I can get another job, have two to three months before they realize I'm working again, and then that way I can, like, negotiate a payment in lump sum. How much is your student loan debt, kiddo? It's $6,800, but originally it was $3,550. $6,800? Yes.

And what do you make? I make absolutely nothing. I'm working part-time, so I make about $500 monthly, and I'm lined up for a server job next month. Okay. And did you graduate? Yes, I did. With a degree in what? It was with a certificate.

It was for cosmetology. Why are you not cutting hair? I called him yesterday and explained that it was because of sicknesses from my parents and myself. So now I'm going to be doing that when I do move next year in the beginning, but for now I have more so wanted to focus on what do I do. Yeah. Well, yeah, you can probably just quit that job because it's not much anyway.

You can pick up another one making that same kind of money. And the trick here, as we discussed yesterday, is for you to overall get your income up to be able to address 6,800 is not that much. You have a tremendous income problem, and we talked about that yesterday. So, yeah, if you need to get another $500 a month part-time job to offset this one, and it'll be a while before they find you. That's probably not a bad idea, because every dollar is precious right now in your situation. Ellen is with us. Ellen's in Arizona.

Hi, Ellen. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question for you, and I've been pontificating this. I was left two homes in a will four hours away from me. They're

under a property management people. So I get about $1,100 between the two properties rent. There's no mortgage. By the time they take out the property management, I get about $1,100 if there's nothing broken between the two houses. I noticed the last time I was up there, and it's four hours away from my home, the neighborhood is going downhill. My question is, should I think about putting them up for sale one at a time because they're right next door and bringing the money down to me? Yes. Okay, and reinvesting that in one home down in Phoenix versus two four hours away. Agreed. I like all of that.

I like all of it a lot. That makes a lot of sense. You like it? Okay. If you like real estate or if you want to invest in something else, you could. But there's a lot wrong with this. It's four hours away. The neighborhood's going down and uh whatever the value is of those two homes if you put that pile of money in the kitchen

table on them in the middle of your kitchen table and ask yourself would i go buy those two homes the answer 100 of the time will be no exactly and so that tells you it's time to sell time to sell and bring that money down to Phoenix. And I would probably get about $100,000 between the two of them, take that money and put $100,000 into a small Phoenix home here and rent it out. And then I can overlook the rental, and I would save on that property management fund also. And probably have a more increase in value and probably have a better situation with tenants because the best property management firm in the world is not you.

When it's your money, your tenant, you watch them different. It just changes everything. Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call. And Antoine is with us.

Antoine is in Georgia. Hi, Antoine. How are you? Doing well. How about you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Good.

Thanks for taking my call. I'm calling because I looked around on the Dave Ramsey website, and I couldn't find a perspective on after-tax 401k. Thus, I'm calling in to get your stance on that. Because of how high my income is, for me to reach the 50% max or 15% point as far as saving for my future, I have to either open up an IRA or contribute to AfterTax 401k. My company offers AfterTax 401k, and I've already called, and they enable automatic in-plan Roth conversions for that. So I'm kind of curious if that's something I should be doing.

I would do Roth IRAs first, individual Roth IRAs first. Max out your 401k at your company, then max out for individual Roth IRAs. Are you married? No, I'm single. Okay. All right. And so you're making in excess of $250,000 then? No, I'm at $138,000.

Well, honey, you can put 15% of $138,000 into a 401k. Well, doing the math here, it be twenty thousand and seven hundred dollars so it'll be a little bit over nineteen thousand dollars yeah but you can do the rest of that in a roth ira yeah yeah your max is 19 and um yeah you just do your roth ira an individual with a smart investor pro and that'll be very easy to do. Yeah, definitely do that. After taxes doesn't really do anything for you. It's just another investment vehicle, but it doesn't give you any benefits. The Roth IRA grows completely tax-free, and that's what you're wanting to get after here. So, hey, man, thanks for the call.

We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ben's on Facebook. I just started 888-825-5225. Ben's on Facebook. I just started a new job. I'm straight commission. I've been in this industry for 15 years, but new at this company. I want to start the process of buying a new house, but since my income is variable, is there anything I need to know or to prepare for ahead of time?

I don't have six months' worth of pay stubs yet. You'll probably have to have six months there, two years of income in the same industry, but you'll probably have to have a proof that you've re-established yourself as a straight commission guy in a new company, even though you're in the same industry. But you definitely got to be able to go back two years on your tax returns in this situation to be able to get qualified for a conforming mortgage, a mortgage that's reasonably priced, in other words. And I always recommend you check with Churchill Mortgage

and you look towards Fannie Mae mortgages to do that, conventional mortgages. So, Ben, thanks for following us on Facebook, sir. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer. Madison is filling in for Kelly. And we appreciate her being our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey guys, it's Blake Thompson, Senior Executive Producer for The Dave Ramsey Show. This hour's over, but you can find more great content on our YouTube channel. Catch the most watched Dave Ramsey, death-free screams, and the very popular Everyday Millionaire segment. Go to the Dave Ramsey Show YouTube channel and click subscribe.