The Ramsey Show - App - You Won't Win if You Don't Have a Plan (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 1, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, and my co-host this hour, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, as we talk to you about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Shelly's going to start off this hour in Florida.

Hi, Shelly. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm calling to get your advice about whether I should insist that my husband carry health insurance. He feels like it's a violation of his faith in God to carry insurance.

Basically, he feels like he gave his life to Christ and you don't insure what you don't own. We've been married 10 years. We were both widowed and we each have a high relative net worth. When we were first married, he didn't have any health or property insurance. Most of his net worth was tied up into 18 acre property, which he opened up for church retreats and people to have weddings, which, you know, would open him to a lot of liability hurricanes. But which, you know, would open him to a lot of liability hurricanes. But he, you know, always insisted that his faith and his money came from

God and he feels like it's a violation. And so I added him reluctantly onto my insurance when he, we first got married and now we've recently retired and, uh, I, he doesn't want to carry health insurance and i feel like at 60 my first husband died of lung cancer so it makes me a little uncertain and fearful for someone to go without health insurance so i'm calling in to see what you think well this man obviously loves god a lot and um is, really trying to walk out his faith in a very dramatic way. And I doubt seriously that anything that John or I say will change his mind. I think he's been living and thinking this way for a very, very long time. I have health insurance, and I'm a Christian, and it doesn't diminish my faith.

It doesn't mean that I don't trust God, but it does mean that I am... I also... I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of bizarre examples you could come up with of other things that he probably does, but that also violates what he's talking about. That's the problem with getting jot and tittle oriented, is that you end up stepping on one of the jots or the tittles. I like thinking of health insurance as a way to honor my family

and honor those who will be left paying medical bills if I pass away, those who are trying to grind out and figure out what to do while I'm sick or incapacitated. And it has less of a kind of calling God's bluff, if you will, or putting God to the test for this is the way this is going to happen. Let me tell you another one, okay? Here's one that comes up that I hear. I've heard this one more often than yours, Shelly. I don't save money because God says he will take care of me.

He says not to worry because if the sparrow falls from the air, he knows that. He knows the number of hairs on your head. And so as an act of faith, I don't save money. And yet that is inconsistent with Scripture. because in Proverbs, which is also God's word, it says, in the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil. But a foolish man devours all he has. So when you say, I don't save money as an act of faith, the Bible says you're foolish, that you're not wise. By the way, foolish is a fool in action.

That means you're a fool, okay, if you don't save money. That's what the Bible says. Now, don't get mad at me. God said it. So, but, you know, and the mind of man plans his ways and directs his steps. Jesus said, don't build a tower without first counting the cost, lest you get halfway up and you're unable to finish. And all who see you begin to mock you and say, this man began to build and was unable to finish. All of these are indicators, and there's Scripture after Scripture after Scripture after Scripture, that God is a God of order, a God of planning. And the farmer doesn't walk out to the field and say,

grow crops because I have faith in God god says farmer put seed in the ground and that gives you the crop after god brings the rain and the sun and it gave you the original dirt to start with so we can honor god without provoking him and I think your husband has a wonderful heart. I disagree with his conclusion, but I also doubt that I can say anything or John can say anything that'll change his mind. I agree with John, though. It's making you squirrely. It's making you nervous, and I don't blame you. And as a way to honor his wife, as a way to say, I'm a caretaker, I'm going to be good to my family. My job is to serve my family, to be a good manager. Here's a way of looking at it, another way of looking at it.

I hadn't thought about this. Just making this up as I go. I do that every day. We try to keep up with you. God says to be a good manager. If you had a manager running a business and refused to buy insurance, when he could transfer some of the risk associated with the business, I don't think I would call that guy a good manager.

If I had a branch somewhere, I don't, but if I had a branch with a building and I found out the manager refused to carry him, and he says, well, you know, it's God's building. If it burns, it's God's will, and God will take care of us. And he said that, would fire him right for being an incompetent manager there's that old story um it's an old parable and it's silly but um of some shape form or fashion about the it rained real hard and the the flood rains the flood waters were coming up and the guy standing on the roof right um sends a boat he doesn't take

it says oh god's gonna come get me then sends a helicopter god's gonna come get me and then he drowns and goes to heaven said god where were you he's like dude i should i sent a boat and he doesn't take it says no God's going to come get me and then sends a helicopter God's going to come get me and then he drowns and goes to heaven and says God where were you and he's like dude I sent a boat I sent a helicopter what are you doing and so yeah it's this idea you know a few years ago I heard a great speaker talking about

going to visit the atrocities in Rwanda and a extraordinary minister said I've stopped asking the question where's God, I've stopped asking the question, where's God? And I've started asking the question, where are God's people? And they are the action and they are the breath and they are the hands dealing with all the nonsense on this earth. And so, yeah, I like to go back and say, man, you're going to pass away and say, I gave

you a plan to help pay for that lung insurance. Parable of the talents. I told you to manage this well, and you didn't manage it well, so I'm going to take it away from you. That's right. And then you're going to call that God's will. Well, it was God's will. He took it away from a bad manager. Right.

So I, again. All I have to say is I like to answer these kind of questions with what I do in my house. I have health insurance for me and my family. Yeah, me too. And all of our team here has health insurance. So if you want what my opinion is, what I do for my kids is I have health insurance. me and my family. Yeah, me too, and all of our team here has health insurance. So if you want what my opinion is, what I do for my kids is I have health insurance. It would be inconsistent. I do understand the struggle that he has, the faith that he has.

When I first came to faith as an adult, I was straining so hard. I really wanted to be what God wanted me to be in every area, even if other people didn't understand, even if none of the rest of society did. I didn't care. One guy I needed to take to be happy, and that was Jesus. What do you want me to do, God? What do you want me to do with this? And I did some stupid butt stuff in the name of my newfound faith at the time.

Now, this guy's not new. He's been doing it a long time. But I can tell you this. I was that guy. There's a part of me that relates to him, and he's a good man, and he loves God. He's not a crazy man. He's just come up with a couple of crazy conclusions. Disagree with him, but I think you married a good man, probably.

I think he's a kind man. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. you know what disappoints and angers me to no end at a time when most people are pulling together to help one another identity thieves are using our heightened levels of fear and anxiety to prey on us in some pretty scary ways. Scammers are setting up fake testing sites just to collect people's credit card and social security numbers. They're also sending out texts and emails posing as IRS agents claiming to need bank info so you can get your stimulus check, and the list goes on. Look, identity thieves are smart, and they have no shame, which is why you must be prepared.

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This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I know things have been pretty crazy out there this year. 2020 pretty much sucks as a year so far. God almighty. That includes the stock market going up and down and me telling you over and over not to cash out your 401K. Rachel and Hogan and Anthony, all of us telling you not to cash out your 401K. And I know the government passed a stimulus bill. I know you've been through COVID.

I know you've been through all kinds of stuff. I know some of you got really in a hurting mess. I understand. Don't cash out your 401k. And now the market's recovering, and you're glad you didn't cash out your 401k. I hope you're glad. So here's the thing. You need an investment professional in your corner.

I'm not one. I'm really good at this stuff, but I'm not available to talk to you when you need somebody to talk to always. And so go to DaveRamsey.com, click SmartVestor, and you can find one of the SmartVestor pros in your area that we recommend. And you decide which one you want to work with. It'll drop down a list of them when we do this. And people that work with an investment professional have better rates of return. And it's not because investment professionals are magical

or have magic dust for your money or something. It's because they have knowledge about the markets. But you know what it mainly is? They don't let you cash out your 401k at exactly the wrong time they talk you off the ledge and um you know you know like i remember john i hired a personal trainer at my house years ago and my uh looks like it doesn't years and years and years ago decades ago turkey decades ago needs to come back but uh uh i mean sharon's making fun of me she's like um what's he i said well you know he counts the reps and shows me what to do and you know make sure my

posture is right and she goes you're paying a guy to count to 10 for you and you know what she's wrong sometimes we went to 12. oh yeah but no i'm saying but all seriousness is you need a guy you need accountability you need accountability and encouragement you need someone to push you a little bit further than you can go by yourself a good coach you need someone to tell you when to hold back because you're going to injure yourself and you need that if you're gonna if you're gonna win in an area of your life you need a good marriage coach you need a good uh tax person you need a good investment person you you know i often uh would tell my students michael jordan kobe bryant had a basketball coach and

those were two brilliant basketball minds and they had nutritionist and they had a workout just because you're smart doesn't mean you don't need somebody else looking at something from a different angle, walking alongside you, making sure you're holding you accountable, doing the right things. And they can see stuff you can't see. That's exactly right. And sometimes my roommate Craig from college is a Ramsey SVP,

and sometimes he'll call and just say, he'll know the market before I do, and he'll say, I'm just calling to tell you don't. Whatever it is, don't. And he knows me before i even get there so yeah um yeah they're a gift they're a gift having a coach is important smart vestor pros at davramsey.com all right grace is with us in nebraska hi grace how are you good thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? My question is, I'm actually, my husband and I are in Baby Step 2. We are just chipping away at our two car payments, and then we will be debt-free. Good.

We are in the military, and as you know, there is a certain rank structure in the military. But my question is, how do I respectfully respond when my leadership is pressuring me into spending money on things that I don't necessarily want to spend money on? So for example, this year's Christmas party was $50 a ticket for me and my husband would go, obviously, it would be $100. We'd have to also pay for a babysitter. When I said I didn't want to go, I kind of got a lot of pressure from my upper leadership telling me things like, if I don't go, then my subordinates aren't going to go. And how does that make me look? Another example is during COVID, just this past two weeks ago, we had a baby shower for somebody at drive-by. So we brought gifts and dropped them at the end

of the driveway. When I said I wasn't going to go, I got a text message from my supervisor saying how disappointed she was that I couldn't even buy balloons or buy diapers, that type of thing. And I have no problem celebrating a baby or celebrating Christmas, but with the plan that we're on, we're so close to reaching our goal. And I just, my question is, how do I respond to them in a way that's respectful and telling them that I want to decide how I spend my money, that it's not up to them? It sounds like that's the bigger issue. Sounds like it's not about the $15 pack of diapers with a bow on it. It sounds more that you don't like somebody telling you what to do with your money. Is that it? Yeah, that's definitely part of it. It sounds less of a baby step two issue and more of a I'm in the military. You tell me what to do with every moment of my life and I don't want you to tell me this moment too. Is that more it? I think that's part of it. But mostly,

I just feel like my family is on a plan and we're on track and I really want to meet that goal. And I don't like that they meet that goal and i don't like that they're i guess i don't like that they're kind of telling me like no you will spend money on this when i could take that hundred dollars that i would have paid for those tickets to the christmas party and put it towards my car loan yeah i've got an opinion on it what do you think dave my my opinion on it is this um you're it's just a social norming question and so if being the contrarian being someone who is comfortable saying that's not me and that's not what we're going to do with our money we don't want to do that then don't do it and then it goes back to

something i say all the time which is your boss doesn't get a vote the other side of it is um which this is the the way i've tended to do these kind of things is I build it into my budget and it's as a as a cost of doing business at the place where I work there's some social norms there that everybody pitches in into a pot for weddings everybody pitches into a pot for babies and this isn't that's what I won't do is feel bad either way I'm not going to give somebody else permission to make me question my values or make question the decisions me and my wife make together about our family's finances. Pick one of those two sides and go with it. What do you think, Dave?

As a leader, I've got a thousand folks on this team, I don't mind ever someone disagreeing with something they're asked to do that's outside of their job. What I do mind is them being disagreeable when they're disagreeing. So to be real honest, Grace, you're a little torqued about this. It's in your voice. You're a little put out. And I don't think you're wrong for being put out, but if your supervisor hears that same thing in your response, you're going to limit the effectiveness of respectfully disagreeing. Right.

And so you need to just kind of pray through and get your name back, Grace, and just go, you know, I'm kind of scared to bring this up with you, Sergeant or Lieutenant or Captain or whatever, because I'm afraid that you might be mad at me and you might think I'm insubordinate. But I'm working really hard to pay off my cars over here. I just can't do it this year. I'm so sorry. I don't want to be a bad leader. I don't want to not be what you want me to be. But we've got these family goals, and we're just not going to be able to do it. I'm just so sorry.

And if you go at it that way, most people will let you off the hook. Now, if you're dealing with a turkey butt, they're just going to be a turkey butt. You can't control that. But the way you ask or the way you respond, it's not asking. It's just responding. And just say, I'm not doing it. But if you go, I'm not doing it. It's none of your business what I do with my money.

Kiss my butt. That ain't helpful. That's not going to work. I feel that. I can feel that inside. But I just have to stop and go, okay, I'm dealing with a person in authority. And in the military, virtually absolute authority over you. And you're used to taking direct orders, commands.

And that's how you're trained. And that's how they're trained for you to take them. So you just got to go, hey, join me on my goal to get my cars paid off. Understand my heart. And it's not a heart of rebellion or belligerence or a heart of whatever. And then just say, I can't do it because I'm a husband and we've agreed to this. And it's just really, really important to us. I hope you understand. I pray you understand because we're not doing it. And then you can't own the hurt feelings on the

back end of it. Yeah, if they decide to be a butt, that's now their decision. It is what it is. That's right. But don't, you know, make sure you pray about this a little bit before you go in there with that. Get that edge out of your voice that I heard. I don't blame you for having the edge, but it's just not going to be productive. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention.

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Plus, they offer an exclusive for Ramsey Show listeners. Go to ShadyRays.com and use the code RAMSEY for 50% off two or more pairs. That's ShadyRays.com, code RAMSY. Real people are in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. It's such a nice thing. Real people. Good to see real people again. On the debt-free stage, some of those real people are Joshua and Amanda.

That means they're ready to do a debt-free scream. Welcome, guys. Where are you all from? We are from Kenosha, Wisconsin. Love it. Welcome to Nashville. It's a pleasure to be here. Nice weather down here, huh? It is, yeah. You walked into some good stuff. And all the way from Wisconsin to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? I paid off $22,543. Love it. And how long did this take? 14 months, 20 days. Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

We started at $80,000 and worked our way up to $100,000. Love it. Good for you. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a special education teacher. And I am currently in construction sales, but along the way we actually started our own business, maternitytraders.com, selling gently used maternity clothes. Ah, okay. Is that doing good? It is. Yes. Good.

Kind of gave us our bump. I love it. Very cool. To the finish line. What kind of debt was the $23,000? Everything. Yeah. The typical buffet, Dave.

You were like normal. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Totally normal. We had the car loans, student loans. Credit cards. Credit cards.

IRS. IRS. Family loan. You name it. Everything. Love it. Everything. Love it. Wow. So what happened 14 months ago?

What was the burn the house down breakthrough moment? It was the end of a really long, difficult year medically for our family. We had kind of been doing Dave-ish since we got married, and then it just hit us, bam, bam, bam. Our son was born six weeks early, and he spent some time in the NICU, and then nine months after that, Josh had an accident, and he was out of work, and five months after that, we suffered an ectopic pregnancy, and I was out of work. Wow. It was a really hard year. It was difficult, a lot of depression and anxiety we were dealing with, plus all the medical bills and all that happening. And it just so happened that during that time I was off of work,

Josh's employer decided to give FPU to everybody in the company that wanted to do it. Oh, wow. Yeah, so we were able to go through that, and we went to the first class, and that was it. We were done. Gazelle intense. When the student is ready, the employer will cause the teacher to appear. Yeah, exactly. That's a new saying Who's your employer?

Actually I work for Oddjob Larry It's a construction company And that's who bought it for you? My parents actually own the company Oddjob Larry I love that name Fantastic So we got our second chance

oh sorry that's okay go ahead yeah so that was our second chance to get in the blood right yeah okay so you had all this medical you had all this anxiety you had an accident with depression you said you mixed in there i mean all hell's breaking loose yeah and in the middle of that you decided to take on debt yeah i mean that's that's pretty i mean that that's like that's impressive yeah we just it was it was the way we could be a team and just yep it strengthened our marriage i know you'll ask later but one of our strengths or one of our um things that we like to talk about is how it improved our communication as a couple. We started talking about finances, but then you talk about everything else, and it really improves your marriage.

I mean, you had so much crap going on. This was something you could actually win at. Yeah, absolutely. It didn't feel like it at first, but you had a shot at controlling this with all these wild, uncontrollable things going on around you. Yeah. And like she said, we really struggled with communication the first part of our marriage so doing this really helped us to become a team and now we just we tackle everything together so it's awesome but the first budget oh there's a fight it was awful yeah i mean the first three

budgets were awful i took this stuff from a guy named larry burkett. I came home and I told Sharon we're getting on a budget, and she looked at me like I had one eye in the center of my head. She said, well, yeah, you may be doing that with your second wife. I'm your starter wife. Maybe not. Yeah, we had the biggest fight of our lives that night. It was awful, man. We were knocked down, dragged out.

I said, you spend what at the grocery store? What are they selling over there? Freaking gold bricks. You go over there and do it, you genius. Yeah, and Amanda here is the budget queen in our house. So the first budget that she put together. A little tight. Yeah, a little tight.

I was looking at it, and I'm like, what do you mean we can't go out to eat this month? What are you talking about? Can't go out to eat for the next 14 months. What do you mean we're not eating at all? Exactly, yeah. And she's a teacher, man. And there's nothing odd jobs Larry can do when you get a teacher focused on something. That's right.

That was it. Yep. So the key to you guys was communication when people ask how you got out of debt you you two started working attacking one thing even you had all this i mean you know we're laughing a lot but you had a lot of pain in your life at this time yeah yeah we did yeah yeah and a lot of that's turned around too now yes absolutely we just had our rainbow baby in april and he's eight weeks, and he's here with us. Wow.

We're all good now. That's very good. Family's healthy, and three beautiful boys. I love it. I love it. So all three of them are here. All three of them are here. Okay, and what are their names and ages?

You want them in the shot? Sure. For the debt-free scream? Yeah, absolutely. All right. So the first one is Lucas. He's nine. He's nine.

Sherry does not want to give up the baby. I know. Yeah. They warned us about that. Yeah. Sherry, she's been known to kidnap a baby. Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, my goodness.

And this is Samuel. He'll be three in August. I love it. This is Bennett. He's eight weeks. Okay, Bennett. Way to go, man. You got it down.

Bennett's going to do a debt-free scream at eight weeks. That's right. Oh, man. I'll probably scare him to go, man. You got it down. Bennett's going to do a debt-free scream at eight weeks. That's right. Oh, man. Probably scare him to death, bless his heart. So how's it feel now that you did it? Oh, my gosh. Like the whole world is open. Yeah.

It's amazing. The possibilities. It's unexplainable. Just sitting here looking at you guys, the Norman Rockwell painting, knowing what you've been through, I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Thank you. You guys are fighters.

Yeah. And I hope it's not lost on you. I'm looking at these six eyes, these three little boys, and they're all, three of them, you can see their eyes. You've changed the trajectory of their life. Yes. And they've watched you. Rachel says all the time, more is caught than taught.

They have watched you. They have felt you. And their life is going to be different. Your grandkids' lives are going to be different because of the choice you more is caught than taught. They have watched you, they have felt you, and their life is going to be different. Your grandkids' lives are going to be different because of the choice you made. Yes. Lucas actually went through Kids FPU, and they were probably our biggest cheerleaders

for this whole thing. I mean, they were right there with us, and the only time that they really complained was having to listen to Dave Ramsey in the car all the time. Like right now. $23,000 paid off in 14 months, making $80,000 to $100,000. Oh, man, what a great story. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! I love it! Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you as well, Everyday Millionaires, because that's the next chapter in your story for sure. That's what's coming next.

So proud of you guys, you're heroes. I tell you, man, all of us face some stuff. Man. And then while you're in the stuff, you make some choices. And sometimes people just roll over and the stuff's just too much and they can't deal with it and they just become a victim. And other times they get stronger and they see a way out and they get excited and they go pay off $23,000

in 14 months. But more importantly, they took control in a time where there was no control in the lunch. Little wins. Little wins, right? Just get that $1,000. Just do that first budget together. Just have that first awkward meal where one of you brings it up. Let's try this Dave Ramsey thing out.

And then suddenly, yeah, it's that old thing. You just turn your car steering wheel one degree, and eventually it turns all 360-degree turn, right? It goes all the way around. It just takes that one little win. Yeah, and then another little win. And then another one and then another one, yeah. But it comes at a moment where you go, you know, in their case, it was a little different. A lot of times it's an I've had it moment.

You know, like people are coming out of COVID right now, and the COVID suppression, the economic problems, and they're saying never again, never again. That's an I've had it moment. In their case, it was almost an act of surrender. It's a broken moment. I can't anymore. I got to do a new thing. It's a different kind of anger or a different kind of emotion. It's not even anger probably

it's just a sense of surrender I'll do whatever you want me to do Lord just show me what you want me to do I'll just do whatever you want me to do and then he shows you and then you gotta go plant the seeds and you gotta go be brave and do it and you gotta plow the field

and you gotta make the crop come in this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Father's Day is just around the corner. If you're looking for the perfect, unique gift to give dad, I've got it. Grip 6 belts. If dad's like me, he's not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable.

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things that are happening and uh it's always an excuse for not budgeting and i've heard all of them and truthfully there's not a good enough excuse if you want to win with money you got to have a plan you're not going to win at anything that you don't have a plan with. I don't have time to make a budget. I know budgeting can seem like a lot of work, but you really can't afford to not do it. It takes about 10 minutes if you use EveryDollar. EveryDollar is free. It is the world's best

budgeting app. It is produced by our team here at Ramsey, and it's an app, and it absolutely kicks butt. You can budget from anywhere. You can learn to work with your spouses on it. No more excuses. Text EVERYDOLLAR to 33789. Our guys will get you set up.

It's free. EVERYDOLLAR to 33789, and that'll get us going. John, our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Even if you mismeasure, you screw up, you get the wrong color, they'll remake the blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping. And with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more.

Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best deal. Today's question comes from EJ in Georgia. He visits DaveRamsay.com to ask, My name is EJ and I'm 17 year old graduating senior of the class of 2020. I want to attend a technical degree program that is covered by a sponsoring company, which is basically all expenses paid. I'll receive an associate's degree and gain employment with great pay and benefits post-grad. The issue is my father refuses to sign to allow me to go there. He wants me to go to a four-year college or a technical academy bankrolled by him personally.

I don't want to go that route due to the fact that my dad is pretty controlling him. Paying for my college is literally a ball and chain I don't want. What would you suggest I do? You worked in higher ed for most of your career. Yeah, I can't tell you. A degree in higher ed. I can't tell you how many students, their parents would come in and they would say, my kid's going to be a doctor, my kid's going to be a lawyer, and you have to turn that

conversation around where you look at the kid and say, what do you want to be when you grow up, right? And moms and dads, man, they love their kids and they're trying to love their kids the best way they know how, but they often do it by trying to control every moment past the time they live in their house. So this is a complicated one for the young man, 17, so he doesn't have his own signatory power yet. If my son got an all-expense-paid opportunity to go get an associate's degree

and gain employment with great benefits and that's what he wanted to do, I'd high-five him and I'd be excited for him to go do that. So I think what this 17-year-old needs to do is to talk to the program and see if they'll let him sign as a 17-year-old. He's going to have to wait until he turns 18. I think the broader question is to sit down with his dad. But, again, if you've got a controlling dad that said no, and he knows enough to know as a 17-year-old that dad paying for college means dad's going to control my every move forever. That's a wise kid that is asking some questions I wasn't wise enough to ask at 17. Sounds like he's kind of got his finger on the pulse of.

The way he asks the question seems fairly mature. Far beyond me. If his mom didn't write the email. Right, right. You know, I'm just thinking on the other side of it. I think the narrative you laid out is probably right. I don't disagree with you at all. When the Ramsey kids went to college, they had one choice.

If they wanted my money, they were going to do my stuff. There you go. And that could be considered controlling. But the stipulation is if you want my money, they were going to do my stuff. There you go. That's right. And that could be considered controlling. But the stipulation is if you want my money, right? Yeah. And this young man seems to know enough to know. He doesn't. I don't want his money.

I don't want his money. Yeah. And so if one of mine had said, I don't want your money, I'm going my own way, then they could have done that. But I'm not going to fund unless you're going to have a behavior pattern, a set of character traits, a set of morality. I'm not going to put God's money and make you a well-funded orgy attender. I'm just not going to do it.

I mean, I'm not going to make you a well-funded beer pong player. Right, right, right. That's not my goal of sending you over there as your dad who loves you and a 17 year old that's a bit rebellious would call that controlling well i was gonna say that's the other side of this doesn't sound rebellious in his language choice though right sometimes uh when i was 17 everything my dad asked me to do take the trash out why are you still controlling you're controlling me yes i am have my dadgum trash out have my car back so i can go to work why are you controlling me? Yes, I am. Take the dadgum trash out. Have my car back so I can go to work. Why are you controlling me?

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, there's those other side to it. But I don't see that in this language choices. No. That's why I'm thinking. I always look at the way people choose their words. You sprinkled in there, I wonder if mom wrote this. I wonder if EJ stands for Elizabeth Jane.

I'm just throwing it in. It's possible. But I think if we take this on face value which we need to do and give the guy a break right then your your answer is exactly right you're just going to wait on your 18 ej and maybe the the broader the broader conversation is and where you're going to live yeah and how you're going to pay your car insurance and yeah all the bigger mom and dad uh fun questions but I do think it's worth a conversation at some point. This is what Anthony does so well is this idea that a two-year associate's degree en route to something else,

two-year associate's degree is somehow less than, worth less, valued less, and those can be great opportunities to get into the workforce. A technical degree particularly. If he's going into IT, you know, you can learn as much as you need to learn in a two-year program to get into IT if you're going to be a programmer. Right. You know, that kind of a thing. And so we've had lots of folks on our team that do not have four-year degrees in information systems, and they make piles. They are not starving.

No, they are not. No one near them is starving. And so once Ruby met a rail, then there you go. You know, it's just like, wow. But, yeah, it's an interesting thing to think about. I always think about being the 17-year-old, and then I always think about being the dad, the controlling dad of the 17-year-old. none of mine ever to my face that i was controlling but i i mean i was controlling but it's your money in that sense and uh yeah it is my money and you get you get my money you get my rules right wherever it is you know i don't we don't donate to ministries that

are going into debt for instance um and that's okay they can run their thing i'm not telling them how to run their thing but i can't do that because i don't borrow money so why would i give you god's money as a charitable donation if you're going to give it to the bank that would be inconsistent with who dave ramsey is and so i'm controlling right you know but that's called just um you know living out your principles living out your life's core values. Bobby is with us. Bobby's in Missouri.

Hey, Bobby, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Howdy, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'll tell you my question first and then our situation. I'm looking to find out if our income is going to be appropriate for the mortgage that we're wanting to get. Me and my fiance make about $170,000 a year.

It goes up pretty steadily every year. We have about $15,000 in debt of credit cards from our house and then $40,000 debt on a truck. We own our home outright. It's worth about 130 grand don't owe anything on it um our our plan long term our dream is to own a ranch we want to start a business we've both been heavily involved in rodeo and horses our whole lives and we recently found our dream property about two years before we were really planning on being ready to buy. They want $640,000 for the property, and with selling our house, we could have about $150,000 to put down.

My question is just our income. Is a $600,000 property really realistic? If you can put it on a 15-year fixed, where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, then I'm okay with it. You don't want your dreams to become a nightmare. Right. And in the name of, quote, living the dream,

I and many others have made some unbelievably stupid decisions so uh do you know live the dream the right way so it continues to be a dream and not doesn't become a nightmare so if you can do that you've got a really good income i actually think you can pull this off with the numbers you gave me you do need to get rid of the truck and get rid of the credit card debt so uh maybe you lease it for six months before you do this with an option to close on it later by the end of the year and get your house sold and get your truck paid off and that kind of stuff. And then I know you can afford it.

But I don't tell people to do this kind of thing while they've still got this other miscellaneous crap debt hanging around their neck either. But do it the right way, man, and then it won't bite you later. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Spotify, Pandora, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.