The Ramsey Show - App - You Work Too Hard To Be This Broke

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. Winning with your money. Winning in your work. Winning in your relationships. The phone number for you to jump in to get coached up is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Alongside the incomparable, the fabulous, the fantastic Rachel Cruz,

I am Ken Coleman, and we are here for you. Thrilled that you're with us, America. Let's get to it. We're going to go to Sky, who's joining us in Salt Lake City, Utah. Sky, how can we help? Hi. So I was calling in because I was involved in a romance scam probably about four or five months ago, and it ended up getting me into like $45,000 worth of debt. Oh, no. Sky, what happened?

What do you mean? Was the person fake? Like it was like an internet thing? Yeah. Yeah, it was an internet thing. So I don't know. It was like over a course of several months, like nearly a year, that I was catfished into believing this person was real.

And it was weird because like he would do FaceTimes with me and it seemed like the same person every time. And it was like, it didn't seem fake to me, you know? And to me, it was like we were setting up a life together and spending most of my money to this guy. And it's weird how it can happen to like anyone. Cause I'm pretty, I'm pretty young and I didn't recognize this as being a normal scam. So, Scott, I don't want to bring up all this pain, but I do think you just said something that I agree with,

that this can happen to a lot of people, and without going into the entire detail of it, what were you being asked to send money to him for i'm just curious yeah like people his bills like what was he what was he asking money for yeah um so it was more so like just to set up uh life together it wasn't really anything particularly like it didn't seem like anything crazy. It was like, oh, well, we should get a house and we should get, like, things going. So you sent him money for a down payment on a home? It wasn't necessarily that, but it was just like a collection of, like, things.

It wasn't just one specific. I don't want to say, one specific thing it was like a whole bunch of like little things that combined to be a lot of money you know okay all right man i'm so sorry so sorry that happened to you yeah so how can we help today so i guess my question is is how do i get in touch with the right people to fight this? Because it seems like I take it to the police station, and I take it to people who are supposed to know how to handle these situations and supposed to know how to help, but it doesn't seem like anybody is like, well, sorry, this happened.

Sucks to be you, I guess. Yeah. Well, there's a reason why you're getting those answers. So you went to all those authorities, and that was pretty much the answer? Yeah. Well. That and he stole my identity too. Like he's been hacking into my bank accounts and stuff with it and opening like random

cards. Still? I have a person down in Georgia who's using it for unemployment. Right now? Yeah. And they told me I stole. Okay. Well, I mean, that end we can help with the identity that the money that you've paid some random person it's gone yeah i mean it is sky there's not like a

legal battle to be fought there was not a contract in place there was nothing that's going to hold ground in court it's just you made a you made a mistake a 45 000 mistake and i and i'm so sorry for that um how old are you sky i'm 21 okay okay i'm so sorry i'm so sorry he totally yep picked you out knew what he was doing and yeah you got scammed um did you learn anything from this guy i think i learned a lot from it actually good yeah okay so on the on the other end though your identity being stolen that's now that's a that's a separate yeah there's something there that you can do so i would go in and freeze pull all your credit report pull your credit report so you can do this for free at all the three different credit bureaus so you can just go online experience transunion you know any of those pull your credit report so you can do this for free at all the three different credit bureaus so you can

just go online experience transunion you know any of those pull your credit report and see a detailed list of your credit okay um and then you can freeze your credits so no one else can be taking money out of your name now the unemployment social security that gets into the government side of your identity right so there's a there's's a whole IRS situation there that you would have to untangle as well. Sky, do you have family, like your parents and stuff? Where are they? So I'm actually living with my parents right now. Okay, what are they saying about all this?

Is your mom and dad helping at all detangle this, or do they know about it? They do know about it and like my mom she just like last week um helped me get life lock on all of my accounts and stuff like that but it still sucks because uh you can't just you can't just change your social and i had him like after i got life lock he called my bank using, like, a recording of my voice. You know how, like, AIs can go in and, like, make voice back? Yeah, so he did that. And then he called my bank and used my social and got another, like, $300 for my account.

Okay, wow. Well, I would even switch banks. I mean, I would do some pretty drastic things where he can't find you in that way. And hey, Scott, and you may want to contact Zander. They have a great identity theft program. They have insurance, which you're probably going to buy after we get off this call.

But even them hopefully being able to direct you and untangle some of this as well from the identity theft side of it. But yeah, I mean, if I i would change i would change banks yeah completely change everything freeze my credit yep um and yeah i mean and then from there yeah i mean i would call xander and and get some direction on the things like the social security the unemployment all of that um because that's the government side of this um but gosh i i yeah i'm so sorry yeah and it's just a good lesson for those of you know watching and listening that you know we always

say you don't give money to people you're not married to even if you're dating even if you're engaged you don't combine finances at all you don't pay on each other's debt you don't do any of that until you're married and then i mean i think i guess it just has to be said out loud not you until you meet someone in person yeah we're not gonna you can't believe you got to say it but don't send a nickel to a person that you've not met you just can't do that this is not even the person that's scamming her may not even be a man you don't even know like all of this ai stuff and all of this this is very very sinister stuff yeah and it's getting it's getting worse well the fact that he used her voice recording this is i mean that's ai i mean

like that is yeah that's not like usps texted me this isn't your garden variety catfish no i thought yeah usps i got a text like two months ago that they lost the package and right asked for all my information nice i can't believe that i did it because you trust the postal service it said have a nice day at the end you really did you don't know that we had a whole segment about this i wasn't on can you believe did you get scanned can you it? Nothing's happened so far. Poor Winston. He must have had to eat a bottle of Pepsi at AC.

I had to ask him for his debit card. He went along with it? No. My debit card would not go through on this website that was sent to me by the quote-unquote USPS. Winston was like, babe, that's a scam. I was like, what? I fell for it.

You got a text from your friendly. You are. And then you look at the email above and it's like 89423 at gmail.com. I mean, it's stupid, y'all. I fell for it. So I'm saying all that to say smart people can fall for stupid stuff. So watch out for the scams. They're everywhere.

He's speechless. I've never been speechless. I'm going to have to take a commercial break to recover. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's.

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That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We want to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is alongside. Hey, we're heading into the fall, and it feels like everybody's kind of starting to put the serious hat back on. We had some fun in the summertime.

People start to focus on their money. You've got the holidays that are right around the corner. And it's time to get your money in the right place if it isn't. And we want to let you know about a free live training on Monday, September 16th. This is at 1 Eastern, 12 Central. So I would turn it into a lunch and learn if it were me. You can join George Campbell and the Every Dollar team for this free live webinar. You can register at everydollar.com slash webinar. That's everydollar.com slash webinar. And this is the number one way to learn how to eliminate debt

is through a budget. You got to know where your money is. The number one way to build wealth is through the budget. And the number one way to get on the same page with your spouse about money is to budget. So budget, budget, budget, budget, everydollar.com slash webinar. It's free. Monday, September 16th, 1 Eastern, 12 Central Time, George Camel and team will be there for you. All right, let's go to Philadelphia next where Jen joins us. Jen, how can we help today? Hi, guys. So I had a quick question. I'm currently working on baby step number two.

And I've been presented with the opportunity of purchasing a property that was my grandmother's and is currently my father's. Unfortunately, he got screwed over by whole life insurance. I was a mock and he's in litigation with all of that. But it was either for my dad's retirement, he sell the property or I assume the mortgage payments and will inherit it in its entirety when he passes. And he would basically be taking, it is rented currently. He would be taking that monthly rent and utilizing that for his retirement rather than the lump sum from the property no i would not do that i would i he just

needs to sell it yeah if there's an emotional tie or something i think it makes it more difficult but honestly jen i wouldn't want you dependent upon your dad's retirement because if you look up in three or four years and realize, oh my gosh, you know, I want to go and I want to have my own house, right? I want to build equity into my own. Yeah. You currently own a home? Yes, ma'am. And even with both properties, I would be under the 25% recommended house buying. So the only debt that I currently have is student loans. It is about $45,000, but I was able to pay off approximately $12,000

within getting Gizelle Intense. Good for you. Yeah, that's great. In the past four and a half months, I have a side hustle that's making an additional six to 700 a month on top of my standard salary. Right, Jen. That's awesome. And that would be without roommates either, which is a potential. So that's why I kind of

don't want to walk away from, you know, if you're getting a half a million dollar property at the remaining mortgage on the home is only a hundred thousand and it is already in his living will for me to inherit it in its entirety and I'm under that 25 percent recommended mortgage yeah is it a mortgage investment or is it truly an investment property is it like paying off your mortgage which is a later baby step, or should this be viewed as investment? It would be a second property for you, correct? Correct. Yeah. So that would be, quote unquote, be an investment property. Eventually, yeah, it'll be in your name. So if I were you, I would simplify it and I would have him just rent it out to someone else. You stay in your current home

and I would keep living there. Let him do his thing with the home, with your grandmother's home, renting it out. That's part of his retirement. And then when you get to a point that you, I guess, want to move in, but you can't because you'll always be paying rent to be funding his retirement. So I don't, yeah, I wouldn't do that.

I don't pay the, there's a third party that's paying rent. So, like, the rent is only a matter of, or the mortgage payment on the second property is only a matter of $800 a month. So, you won't be living there? A renter, a third party will be living there? Correct. And you're considering that his retirement? He's not making enough on that. There is our, he has other like retirement, but it is generating $2,600 is what he's running it out for a month. And the mortgage payments are

only $800 a month. Okay. But let's run the numbers on that. Let's run the numbers on that. So if I heard you right, he's clearing $1,800 a month before any of his own expenses on the home, correct? Yes, sir. He is still working. Okay, great. So $1,800 a month, and it's not $1,800 a month because again, he's got upkeep on the house. He's got other things that are associated. So when you take the actual cost of owning the home and you start to amortize that over that 12-month period, he's not making $1,800 a month. So let's just say for round numbers that he's only clearing $1,500 a month. That's not a large sum of money. I wouldn't even consider that real retirement money. I'm with Rachel. If he really wants more money, then sell it and invest that money. If not, then it is what it is.

He's just holding on onto it for a little bit of spending money and he gives it to you upon his death. Am I understanding that? Yeah. I guess I was just thinking about how real estate continuously increases and it is guaranteed. Yeah, but hold on a second, Jen. I know, but you're getting it in the will. So the value of that property is going to continue to go up. Why do you have to buy it now? Because the other alternative is to sell it. Why doesn't he continue to rent it? Yeah.

I think it's just the overhead cost of renting it plus the other retirement. I think he's concerned about his own retirement. Okay, so your current house, what is it worth and what do you owe on it? It's worth $370,000. Okay. And I currently own, or owe $220,000 approximately.

Okay, okay. And then your grandmother's home, which again, you mentioned something about that being part of his retirement. So he's using the rent and all of that to live off of. Correct? Mm-hmm. Okay. He does work a full-time job, and my mom, they're still married, happily married. She gets Social Security. social security so i think he's just looking at it for how can he continue to um live a comfortable retirement it's 18 grand he's making if i'm if my numbers were probably

conservative but he's making eighteen thousand dollars off this house a year yeah we're back to the same thing of you feel like you gotta buy it it, but you can't. You're in debt and you're making a case for doing this. And it doesn't make any sense for you to buy the house for us. It doesn't make any sense at all. Either he sells it, he takes the profit off of it and he invests it. And that's going to do more for him than the $18,000 he's making over the course of the year. What would he stand to make on selling the house today the grandmother's house um 486 i believe was the last zillow that i had maybe a week ago no no what would he make after he sells it so if it's 486 oh 100 100 left on it so he'd make 386 yeah that money rachel invested yeah over seven to ten years it's just a better play than

holding onto the property for rental income. Okay. Yeah, that's what I would do. And I think, Jen, where it gets complicated and where my hesitation is, is whenever you layer these generational ideas, it just starts to get more complicated. It's just not as clean, right? If he didn't need this money and this house, he could rent it on the side for fun because he's got his other stuff over here and he's fine. He's just doing it for fun. And he's going to leave it to you when he dies.

So eventually you will get the house, you know, in 20 years, 30 years, like, you know, if you want to keep in the family, like all of that is clean. But the idea that he's needing this money, I don't want you attached to your dad's retirement. It gets really messy really fast. So he needs to do what's best for him, Jen.

And what's best for him is if he doesn't have enough in retirement because he's still working, it's to sell this asset and invest it and start living off the interest gained and run into the sunset and then for you to continue on your path. And if he leaves you money upon his death from this house and the proceeds that he doesn't end up using, then that's great gravy for you. But, yeah, the cleanliness of all of this makes it less dramatic

and, again, gives you more confidence and control over your own future, that you're not tied to this asset that your dad's dependent on for retirement. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions,

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Henry, how can we help? Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you guys? Good. How are you today? I'm all right. Question for you. Quick and easy question.

I mean, not easy question, but I have a lease that I purchased in the last year or two there, but just heard about you guys. The lease is for the next two more years left on it there. I'm wondering if I should ever get out of it, pay out of the lease there to get some money, not necessarily money back there, but pay a lease there.

I mean, sell the car or get out of the lease to be able to pay some of my debt. Yeah, it's a great question. What are you paying a month? $1,500. Oh. Oof. What kind of car is that? Mercedes GLE 350.

Well, the GLE is pretty nice. Pretty nice car. Good taste, Henry. You got some good taste. Thank you very much. But it's eating you alive and it's not worth it. We got to get it out of here, right? Is there a lot of...

Give us the terms of where you are. Walk us through the terms. Alright, so if I were to Give us the terms of where you are. Walk us through the terms. All right. So if I were to terminate my payoff right now, it would be about $60,000 to pay off there. I've heard you guys talking about it, so I looked on the Kelly Blue Bucket, and it's about you get $46,000, $47,000 on it.

Okay. Mm-hmm. And then... Was that private sale? Was that? Private sale. $27,000 on it. And then... Was that private sale? Was that? Private sale. So I would leave you with $13,000 that you would owe, right? Yes.

And do you have any cash, Henry? Not much, no. What do you make a year? So I make about $250,000. Oh, that's good news. Yeah, that's great. So you would need another car, correct?

Correct. To be able, yeah, to replace it. Yeah, so we've got to replace it. So we've got the $13,000 that you would then owe, and then we've got the cost of a replacement car. But with your income, you can get something decent if you really work on your budget, right? Yeah, that would be my goal, because two more years of this, I mean, that's a lot, right? It's a good amount, yeah. Yeah, for sure. According to you guys, I mean, this is the first time I ever started that I'm broke,

but I do owe, have a good amount of debt as well, too, over a million dollars debt. Okay, so tell, yeah, give me the rest of your financial picture. I'm just curious where you're at. So I, student loans, $180,000. Credit card debt, about $70,000. Okay. And then mortgage is about $690,000. Okay. Whew, Henry, you $690,000. Okay.

Whew, Henry, you've been living the life, haven't you? Yes, me and my wife. So I guess let me rephrase that because I know you mentioned total income. My wife is making $100,000, so a total of $350,000. Okay. So I'm $250,000. You guys have plenty of money. You just got to get under control yes and you know and that's

the other thing too they're trying to go from that life to hearing about you guys and changing i'm like let's go hard and i and my wife is like what are you talking about there so you know it's definitely different and hard there to actually talk to her about it as well. She's just a budget. Yeah, totally. And I think, Henry, too, just as a piece of advice, usually when people are in your position, the one that kind of hears, okay, there's a different way we can do this, and you go in and tell your wife, we're going to stop shopping and stop eating out,

she's probably like, what the? Henry, what are you talking about? You've lost your mind. So I think approaching her in that aspect is the why. So I am curious, Henry, what are you talking about? You've lost your mind. So I think approaching her in that aspect is the why. So I am curious, Henry, for you, what has caused you up to this point living the way you have with money, both of you, and then you hear us,

which is very counter how you've been living. What's been appealing about that? Like, what is it in you that's like, oh my gosh, I want that side of money, not what I've been doing? That idea of freedom yeah I'm like I'm like trying to talk with you but I'm like holding my breath and like the the heaviness of just owing so much money like the fact that I'm like wait a second I'd never thought about how much I owe and how much debt I'm in I have always been thinking about right now how

much I owe for the month yeah it's like. I have always been thinking about right now, how much I owe for the month. Versus like when I calculated it all, after talking to you guys or listening to you guys, I was like, I owe a million dollars. Like what in the world? Yeah, yeah. And so, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore. Especially when the wife says,

oh, I'd love to have a new summer kitchen. I'm like, what are you talking about? We have no money for that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So Henry, that's what I want you to communicate to her is I can't breathe. And we hear that a lot, Henry, that you're not the only one. It's this level of stress and anxiety and weight because you don't own your life. Somebody, these credit cards, right? Everything owns you. And it's

exhausting to your point. We work hard and I feel like I have no money, right? When I ask you how much money you have saved, it's like, I don't have it. That's what I'm thinking. We work so much hard, like overtime sometimes too. And I'm like, how do I, and how am I having nothing at the end of the paycheck here? I'm like, is this what everyone does? I don't understand this. Right. Exactly. So how much do you guys bring home a month? I was trying to do it with taxes and everything, but when you guys get paid, how much per month are you bringing in, both you and your wife? So I think I'm about $12,000 to $13,000, and she is about $4,000.

So I would say about $16,000, $17,000, $16,000. $16,000, okay. And that's after taxes? Are you guys funding retirement? Yes. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You make $350. Wait a second. We have been putting in retirement. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

You make $350,000 a year. You do. Yes. No, no. Yes, so total. Total. So I don't understand those take-home numbers. What is your take-home?

Yours, just you. Just me, about $16,000. I'm sorry, $12,000 for me. And you're off of? You asked about putting into retirement. Yes, I've been putting into retirement. Yeah, off of gross. So what's your gross? Your gross and her gross?

Total gross is $350,000. Right. You're $250,000. She's $100,000. And then after taxes, retirement, insurance, like after all of that, right? I just felt like her take home was really low off of a $100,000 salary. Her take home only being $4,000. That felt low to me. So I just don't know if you know your numbers. And the reason I'm calling that out is part of this problem is you don't really know your numbers. Yeah, yeah. Or she's having way too much withholding taken out.

And at this point, you're brand new to us. Rachel, explain the retirement should be paused and all that right now to bring in as much as they can. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. So, Henry, the whole concept, you guys really need to dig in because if you're getting a big tax refund every year, that's money back in the paycheck that may not be shown here uh i would be pausing retirement i'd be pausing everything and you and your wife again sitting down and saying hey together it's gonna be really hard to do this without her so i want henry to be as honest and vulnerable with with her tonight and just talk about how scared i mean how scared you are honestly you're in the fall with me I know we can't we'll coach you we'll coach you no but probably should have had her on this call

yeah and and to show her and show her the realization and and the truth is Henry for your own mental sake you can't you guys can't keep doing this right I mean you're you're gonna hit a breaking point eventually and so um for you guys it's going to look different and so I would sit down with her and just say, hey, here's where I want to go. Here's the goals I want to have. And you can kind of map them out ahead of time just to say, OK, you know, we we have, gosh, yeah, almost almost a million dollars, not not including the mortgage, but the credit cards, the student loan, all of it, mapping it out to say with our income and doing a budget and saying,

if we just cut everything and Henry, to your point, this is going to be a 180 from the lifestyle you guys have been living. You've been living kind of the high life and enjoying life. And it's going to get out of this. We always say you can wander your way into debt. You cannot wander your way out. And so there has to be an intentional plan. That's right.

But but gosh, I mean mean in in you know three or four years you guys could have a completely different life financially speaking i think so you getting a side hustle henry yeah adding you know adding more income and all of that so you know if you stay on the line henry christian uh is going to pick up and we're going to give you financial peace university for you and your wife to sit down together and go through it. It's our nine lesson course. And this gives you the basics. And so it can be, she can get mad at us, not you delivering the information.

And Henry, I would say this. I think do what Rachel said as far as your approach to her. But I think you need to show her you mean business by you getting rid of that car. Yep. That will show her you're not just talking. Get it out of here. You're making some sacrifice. And then one of these days you'll be driving one of those bad boys again, but it'll be cash. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Rachel Cruz is alongside. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. And of course, you know, we're so blessed to have a very large audience, very dedicated, a lot of questions, and we have limited time, obviously, every day day and many times we'll miss your calls uh to 888-825-5225 and you leave voicemails and we want to be able to get to some of those so we've got a new segment called sorry we missed your call on our first one this

is a voicemail uh this is from michelle so let's go ahead and play this and we'll answer hello my name is michelle my husband and I are disputing what you mean by saving 15% for retirement. He calls it, I have girl math, which he's right. But so when you say 15% of the household income, if him and I put together, make $81,950 per year, do we do 15% total where it's like 7.5% each person, or do I put away 15% and he puts away 15%? Wouldn't that count as 30% for the household? My husband says, no, your girl math is not working. He said it's 15%.

That's it. So he would have to do 15%. I do 15 i do 15 but i'm saying no we have to do seven and a half percent each to equal 15 for the household anyway so if you could please answer that that would be amazing i'm staying away from that one i don't want to even touch that with a 10-foot pole yeah i just think it's appropriate for you to answer and I'll weigh in. Yeah, well, it's 15% of the household income. So if you guys make $100,000, that's $15,000 that goes into retirement. So in this case, they make $81,000.

Let's round it down to $80,000 just for simple math. It's 15% of the $81,000. So you're looking at $16,500 each. Not each. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah. That's where her math was off. Sorry, I didn't16,500 each. Not each. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah. That's where her math was off. I didn't mean to say each.

I love how she got there, though. I love how she was like, well, no, it's, well, never mind. I said I'd stay away from it. Look what I did. Almost walked right into that one. Fantastic. But no, it is the household income, combined income times 0.15. Keep it simple on the calculator, and there's your answer.

That's it. That's it. All right, good stuff. All right, our next one, this came in from Kevin. Hello, Ramsey team. My name is Kevin. I know Dave said to, you know, baby steps to work like you're crazy from Monday

to Saturday. But you know, being a Christian, we have Bible study on Wednesdays and like prayer night on Fridays. And I want to work Monday to Saturday for my second job. I have about $30,000 left in debt.

I want to knock it out by God's grace by January or February. You know, being a Christian, I just want to know,000 left in debt. I want to knock it out by God's grace by January or February. You know, being a Christian, I just want to know, is it wise to still continue working Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday? Or should I just go work Monday through Saturday until I'm deaf? We then go and start going back to Bible study and, you know, prayer service on Friday. Okay. All right.

I mean, I don't think there's a black and white answer here. It's just the idea that, you know, depending on how intense you want to do this is how quickly you're going to get out. And I don't think either side of it, right? One part of me is like, I mean, you need a level of like sanity during this process, right? I mean, like, I guess

some people can just white knuckle it and just do it, which you can. But I mean, if there's a level of you that's like, hey, I'm committed to this thing and it's really good for me and it's helping me in life, you know, maybe you can stick with that. But also I think you can still be a Christian and not go to Bible study and not go to a prayer meeting for six months. Yeah. I think, I think you're fine. Like I think you'll still go to heaven and everything's going to be okay. And you can still grow spiritually. Like you, you can do that. You know, all of those things. It's your call. I mean, Dave, Dave is speaking in a generality of saying you work as much as you absolutely can to get out as fast as possible. That's the spirit of that statement. But I'm with you, Rachel.

Does it make you a bad Christian if you miss Bible study on Wednesday and prayer night on Friday? Those are functions of the church. They will continue with or without you. And there are still other times that you can study your Bible and pray. Yep. That's what i would say so i'd be careful on the ritualization as it relates to guilt but i'm also right but i'm also with you to say on the other end if that really gives you that refreshment of your spirit yes

keep it then and just say okay god forbid i have to pay off debt three weeks later because i'm taking two hours on a wednesday night to do bible so You know what I mean? It's your call. So there's not a gray area. But anytime we talk about the spiritual end of this, because this is a big part of Ramsey, God's and Grandma's ways of handling money, right? Our spiritual lives are very important to us. So I think it is key. But anytime there's like any level of legalism, Ken, I don't know why, I just like shudder. So even with tithing, people are like, oh my gosh, should I tithe this or that? I'm like, whoa, okay.

Just the spirit of why God has us to give in the first place. Let's go back to that, right? So in that same concept, the spirit of getting out of debt and being free means that you're gonna have to work extra. And so what does that look like for you, right? So tying legalism into it, I don't want for you.

I want the freedom to say, hey, God's not gonna be mad at me And so what does that look like for you? Right. So tying legalism into it, I don't want for you. I want the freedom to say, hey, God's not going to be mad at me if I don't go to Bible study on Wednesday nights for six months because I have a job because I'm trying to hit this goal and get out of debt. But if it's good, but if it's something that you really feel like, gosh, it's so good for me to stay sane in this process, then all for it. Just say, all right, I'm not going to work Wednesday nights. And keep in mind, getting out of debt and doing what it takes to get out of debt is a biblical uh reality yeah that is a positive so i agree i don't like the legalism side of this i mean i grew up in that world uh-huh like sunday

morning sunday night wednesday night thursday night visitation what oh yeah i was pastor's kid what's visitation means you're going out knocking on doors telling people about jesus our little evangelism king coleman i mean look at him i was wearing polyester leisure suits before they were popular all right but to your point in proverbs shall i quote you shall give no sleep to your eyes no slumber to your eyelids deliver yourself like a gazelle from the hands of the hunter a a bird from the hands of the flower. And Proverbs says, if you have signed surety, my son, that's the beginning of that. Meaning you've gotten yourself into debt. You do this, you give no sleep to your eyes, no slumber to your eyelids, and you deliver yourself like a

gazelle from the hands of the hunter, a bird from the hands of the flower. So the picture Proverbs gives you is that, yeah, you are running from running from you know we always say the cheetah right you deliver yourself like a gazelle from the hands of hunter well gazelles you know from the the national geographic they're they're hunted by cheetahs so like that's the word picture ever watched one of those proverbs gives us yes i have when the cheetah chases something down yeah it's pretty wild and the gazelle is literally running for its life yeah i mean we hear dave say that a million times we've seen say that a million times. But that's like, the other day I was actually walking through the living room,

and I think my wife had a show on for the dogs. By the way, my wife leaves the TV on for the dogs. Sounds like George Camel. Little rabbit trail. I'm like, George, don't do that. As if the dogs feel better because there's some type of nature show on. It drives me nuts. I'm not going gonna win that battle

but anyway i'm walking through because i got home and she has the no one was at home and the animals and in national jury and i saw one of those little gazelles yeah and would you believe the episode i saw he got away he did i was like really happy you know so good because that's a that's a 50 50 proposition right there for that gazelle depending on on the head start. That's right. The cheetahs get off the blocks quick. But I digress, but the point here is, in this situation, I want to come back and say, I think that God honors, or is okay, depending on however you want to look at this with someone working that hard and missing times of worship in order to free yourself from that bondage i don't think he's upset one way or the other on that i think do you know what i mean like and i want to hit that

again it's like there's no right or wrong here it's like what do you believe is best for you in your debt-free journey? Yep, that's it. 100%. Or else you're just going to walk around with guilt all the time. And keep in mind, people who are really serious about getting out of debt deal with a level of guilt anyway. I know that we did. When we woke up to all this many years ago, I was like, man, I feel like such an idiot.

You know, what a moron. Stacey, I led you poorly. You know, all that stuff. That's just kind what a moron. Stacey, I led you poorly. You know, all that stuff. That's just kind of a natural thing. You don't need any more God guilt over whether or not, you know, you're doing enough with the resources he's giving you. It's like, no, no, no. The stewardship issue is what's huge. And being a good steward of your money is getting out of debt. Yes. You're not doing things with action that's harming.

Yes. It is helping and relieving, which is a beautiful thing. Here's to all those little gazelles that are going to continue to get away on National Geographic. They represent all of us. I toast you, little gazelle. Good hour, Rachel Cruz. Always fun. James Childs, our fearless leader.

Thank you. And thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want you winning with your money. We want you winning in your work. We want you winning in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number for you to jump in on the conversation. We're here for you to coach you up.

And I don't know if there's anybody that's more enjoyable to do it with than my colleague. My co-host today is Rachel Cruz. She's got a sweet, kind spirit about her. Makes me look crankier than normal. But I'm here for you as well. We're going to lift you up. We want you to win. 888-825-5225. All right, let's start it off with Meg in Cincinnati, Ohio. Meg, how can we help today? Ken and Rachel, hi. It's so nice to talk to you guys. Nice to talk with you.

What's going on? So my husband and I have been married for almost 11 years. We have one son, and we're debt-free besides a little bit of mortgage left. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you. A little bit of a relationship question. I'm the oldest of three. I have a sister who is single and a brother who's married with three kids and my mom and dad are fairly wealthy. And I found out a few years ago that on accident that my parents actually

purchased the home for my brother and his wife. And, um, ever since I found that out, little things just keep happening that are bugging me. Um, and I just keep thinking to myself, why are they, they're essentially financing my siblings life and their lifestyle. And I just keep thinking to myself, why are they, they're essentially financing my siblings' life and their lifestyle. And I just have had this feeling, I'm not jealous of their lives, but I'm just like, in my head, I'm like, when will they take responsibility for their own lives? And so I'm just calling to see if you had any advice for me on these feelings I'm having. I've got some questions first. Sure.

Is this the youngest? I am the oldest. Yeah, but you're the sibling that they're supporting. Is it the youngest or the middle? Oh, both of them. Oh. I've found out things along the way. I don't know if anyone planned on me ever finding these things out, but I have.

Are they brothers or sister, brother? What is it? I have one brother, and he's married with three kids, and then I have a sister who's single and lives on her own. And so they're supporting them in every way, essentially? They finance their homes for them? I mean, are they giving them a spending account? What are we talking about?

I do know that they both have a credit card linked to my parents' account. And I know we were at a Bengals game the other day, and my sister said, I'll pay for it. And I said, no, it's okay, I'll get this one. And she said, no, I have mom's credit card. And it's just like my brother and sister-in-law will show up. They'll eat all the food that we all brought, drink our drinks, but they don't provide anything. And I'm just like, why are you living?

Let me ask you this. I think I know where this is going. Are you and your husband successful financially? Yes. And throughout, we have about, we're hoping to pay off the mortgage next year. Yeah. And, and, and, and I'm guessing that growing up, you were also probably, uh, the maybe if not the best behave, but certainly less drama with you. Is this true? Very much so. Yes. So this is a pattern. It's just, it's, it,

it happened when you were in the home when they were younger. Now that they're adults, it's continuing. Is that what I'm getting? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the reason I'm digging into this, Rachel, I'm going somewhere with this. Um, I'm going to take a guess and I'm not defending your mom and dad Meg I'm actually very much team Meg here I think that's irresponsible it's irresponsible in that it's stunting the growth of your siblings number one and it's irresponsible for this very reason that if you can't cover it up and you can never cover this stuff up

and it gets to you it is deeply hurtful to you and i'm going to challenge you to own that that it is very hurtful because i think it is it is all right so here's the deal i have like the strong anger i think i feel like it's anger but i don't always know how to describe it oh i think it's a good mix of anger and hurt and usually yeah i was going to say the hurt. Usually anger, I'm not a psychologist, but so I've read in therapy, is that anger is usually a secondary emotion. So it's usually always tied to something else.

Fear, sadness, hurt. Like there's usually a deeper emotion there and it may come out as anger, but usually there's a primary emotion, Megan, yeah, and hurt. And I want to touch on that. I think it is, why would they do that for them and not do it for me and i'm gonna and i'm not trying to defend your mom and dad i'm gonna take an angle here rachel you just smack me verbally don't worry meg you come at meg you come at me too but i give me 20 seconds on this. I believe that they actually, your parents, don't worry about you at all. And it is in their lack of worry about you in the fact that they did

good with you. They look at you and they go, did good with Meg. And I think they are overcome with guilt. Meg's fine. And I think they're overcome with guilt about the other two. And so they're trying to fix what they feel they messed up. This is a take on this. This is a hot take. Sure. And as a result, they don't see how this could come across to you. They're not even thinking. And I don't think they, it is not that they love you less than the other two. I actually think it's what I just said I think that's what's going on and so I say all that to say this I think if you can get to a place of understanding that mom and dad are dealing with their own guilt and trying to fix some stuff that they can't fix and actually make it worse that they they they are they are

weak they they have a they have a deficit here on how they're supposed to handle these other two siblings and i hope it'll allow you to forgive them a little quicker and to understand that your mom and dad are operating from a place of pain and and a place of deficit and i think they're trying to fix it that's my take yeah i think there's a level of them that probably feels still a level of responsibility that if their kids aren't okay we're going to still step in and help and that comes out of a really unhealthy place, right? They're doing it and with unhealthy patterns. That's not good for their adult children. But that's the that's the route they've chosen to live. Right. And yeah, not to like psychoanalyze you, Meg, but I have the same birth order, sister, sister, brother, my my family and my current kids and i just even know about the yeah the the textbook oldest daughter there's like kind of that whole like you know just the the family archetype right the the idea that you know they're they're probably seen the

least and i mean that's how mine is i mean my amelia she's just quiet kind of off to the side my middle's insane like I was And then we have little Charles but I'm you know You know if one of the kids that you're not But I think Meg it kind of goes back to all of this and we Could be off on this but truly It's like you were responsible Even from a kid right a kid you

Know an age of a child taking care of Yourself and doing what you need to do And and now you're like does Anyone see me right and there's probably a feeling That when you were a kid does anyone see me And now you're like does anyone see me right and there's probably a feeling that when you were a kid does anyone see me and now you're like are you kidding me like does anyone see me and it's not that you probably just want all this money you don't want your mom's credit card even if she gave it to you Meg you're probably like no thank you but it's just the idea you just feel neglected in a sense like we're like oh my gosh and everyone else is in a secret that

you're not so I don't like that Meg so I were you, I would communicate that to your parents. I would sit down and say, hey, I'm hearing this. And just out of communication that I know that there isn't secrets and things being swept under the rug as a family, will you just tell me what all you've done? And I don't want you to not say, but just, hey, I want to know about all of this because that's fair from your family dynamic, I think. I like that. And let me encourage your heart, Meg.

Meg, listen. Okay, go ahead. Because we're going to break, so I just want to tell you this. Sorry, Meg. Sorry, Meg, but listen. They do see you. Rachel's calling this out. I think she's spot on, but I want to tell you they do see you.

They actually hold you in a level of high esteem. They're trying to help the other two get where you are. I'm praying for healing for you. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is,

it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is alongside and we're here for you. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We're taking your money calls. We're taking your work and income related calls today and then we'll weigh in on some of those relationship issues around money as well. Gentry is now on the line in Wichita, Kansas. Gentry, how can we help? Hi. Excuse me. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. My question is about about buying a house. We've been renting our home for six years,

have a really good landlord and community and love our home, but just renting doesn't seem like the best long-term strategy. We even got a pre-approval and looked at some houses with a realtor. Um, and it was just like, uh, any house that felt like we could afford it seemed like a gamble. Um, how much money my landlord just, um, things that are going to need fixed over time, major issues with the house, or just they all, it was just, I'd walk into a house, it's like, I'm not going into debt to live in this, like, does that make sense? It does. How much money do you all have saved for a down payment? Not a lot. I mean, not, we have like $3,000 in the bank and they've

kind of just stayed at that point for a long time. We'll save some money and then, you know, like saving for a down payment has, um, what's the most you've ever gotten? What's the most you've ever gotten accumulated for a potential down payment? We had about $8,000 a couple years ago, but now we have about three. What did you do with the five? Well, if I'm 100% honest, I probably haven't been the best budgeter. We've got two kids. Listen, no criticism here, but your whole setup of your question gets down to,

do you really want a home? And I think you do. Is it the best long-term strategy? The answer is yes. You identified that in the setup of your question, but you guys haven't done what it takes. So what you've done is you've now created a narrative, which is we can only get this type of house based on where we are now. And that type of house has got all kinds of fixer-upper risk, and you're correct on that as well. But you've created a false choice. Either keep renting as we have, or we buy something that could be a bit of a money trap, as opposed to going, all right, if we change our lifestyle and we get really serious, and serious could be a second job, could be radically changing our budget, and we begin to save instead of $8,000 over six years,

we save $8,000 a year. And let's say in five years we got $40,000. Does that change the equation on the type of house we're at? But I think you've just got to, you're missing intentionality is all this is. I just see that as the bridge from where you are to where you want to be. Yeah. It just doesn't sound like a goal that you're motivated to even save for it. Right. Is that right? Yeah. Well, yeah. I guess another thing then maybe I just need to get this other, I don't know, but I guess input would be good. So my in-laws have, I think this is kind of what's hung me up on just, okay, we, we buy a house. So my in-laws and we have a great relationship with them. They have farmland. They've told us that, you know, we're welcome to be out there. Um, and we've looked into trailer homes and shed homes and different

things like that. Um, because that's where we want to be permanently eventually out on the family farm but that's just I don't know if that's even like if I should just get that trying to do something like that what's your now what's your household income by a house let's let's let's come at this let's come at this another direction what's your household income? Let's come at this another direction. What's your household income? About $70,000 a year. And how much of a house, realistically, would you like to build? Forget shed houses and all these other nonsensical things you just laid out.

Those are horrible. It's going to go down in value. What would be a reasonable number that you would love uh to have what kind of house in your area you know the market better than us on that land long term a lot to build a house on that land i mean it would what's a reason at least a couple hundred thousand okay yeah and you can get a construction loan and all that, but you don't own that land either. So there's a couple of pieces in here, Gentry, that I'm...

It's true. There's family and relational things involved in that as well. Yeah, and they own the dirt. It's a good relationship, but it's definitely... Oh, that's true. I thought they were going to give you some of the land. No? It's complicated. Huh? They're not going to give you the land? Well, it'll end up our land eventually, but that's hopefully a long time from now all right well we're on the

my husband's on the uh it's not the deed i don't know there's but here's the thing i don't so so you're sounding like two hundred thousand dollars is this insurmountable mountain like you just were like i thought you were going to throw out $2 million the way you answered my question. You're like, well, it's $200,000. I mean, at a $70,000 income for a $200,000 home, if you guys got your budget and if they got discipline, Rachel, they can get there. That is not a long way away. Yeah, for a down payment on a construction loan and stuff if you go that way but but i think gentry i think that the what mathematically i think what you have to understand is when you owning a home and you guys are renting and we are not mad at renters right we say on the show all the time renting

is a great place to be if you um don't have the money to put you know if you're not in a financial situation with no debt and emergency funds and all of that rent while you do that rent you know if you're moving to a new city rent for a year to kind of see what part of the city I mean there's reasons to rent but long term the goal is to be a homeowner because that rent check that you've been paying for six years is going nowhere for your future versus it going into equity into an asset for your home and your home expense on your budget that line item is the largest expense that you're going to pay a month, right? For most people, that mortgage payment, that house payment, that rent payment, that is the most. And for it to continue to increase year after year versus having a 15

year fixed rate for 15 years and hopefully paying off that home sooner than that, you've, you know, you've lowered your risk and locked you into an asset where you guys, that's not what you're doing. That's not your plan. So I would challenge you guys to say, yeah, you've been renting for six years. And home ownership, it's just a good piece of your overall financial plan that you guys need to have. I really do believe that when you're financially ready, and you don't, you're not ready right now, you have $3,000. So you need a fully funded emergency fund. I'm assuming are y'all debt free consumer debt? Yeah, I have 20,000 in student loans.

Okay. So you got to get that cleaned up first. And then I would go get a fully funded emergency fund. And then your next goal Gentry is that and here's another thing having financial goals is getting y'all somewhere for six years you guys have kind of just floated right i mean you've been sitting here with student loans you're like i think we kind of budget we kind of have a little bit of money two kids in that six years yes which i yes totally i hear you i hear you five year old but also now we're kind of like okay well we're in a place where we're not in baby you know crazy land in our house and anything in life gentry and ken talks about this so much but you know you're not gonna go where you want to go on accident like you're you guys will not wake up in 10 years and be like oh well look we're getting closer to retirement we're able to do what we want

this is so fun you're not going to just wake up and that happen. You're going to wake up exactly where you are today unless things change. And the most motivating thing to change is to have goals out there that you want and to create a plan and do that. So I almost want to take like the stagnant feeling a little bit of you guys financially and just kind of shake it up and say, hey, put some life back into this part of your life and shoot for a goal. And for you guys, getting rid of the student loans is a great goal. You know, saving up some emergency fund, like getting your guys in a good place. And then homeownership will come later. But I don't know, there's just something in that, Gentry, I hope is just kind of motivating because I think you guys can do great things.

I think you've got to believe that you can get there. And I got news for you. If you think you just got out of crazy town with a kid's age, wait till they get to middle school and high school. You don't even know crazy. It's crazy town in all caps. I say that to say life is going to happen to you or you are going to happen to your life. And I'm encouraging you. I'm not upset at you. I just think it's that, turning that dial to we're going to happen to our life. And we're here to help on that and get out of debt. So hang on the line. Christian, let's get a one session, our gift to them with a financial coach, just to help them get that budget set in some real direction and some extra motivation. I think that'll help. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who

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build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me this hour. 888-825-5225.

It's time for our Ramsey Show question of the day, brought to you by Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae's. So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and the lump sum payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months, go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Natalie in Rhode Island. She says, my husband's job awards company stocks as part of his compensation package. The problem is that their stock has a lifetime history of negative returns. Oh gosh. When the stocks vest after three years, we sell them because we know that they are bad investments and we don't

do single stocks. Do you have any tips on negotiating salary to include more cash and no stocks? He makes about $100,000 a year and receives an additional 15% in stocks, and that portion of his compensation isn't available until three years have passed. How should we go, how should he go about negotiating cash instead of stocks that we have to wait years for them to process, and they're always at a loss? This is just a good old-fashioned conversation to say, okay, here's the reality. As I look at these numbers based on the stock, and here's what it looks like, are there alternatives to the compensation plan? You just got to ask. You don't demand. I can tell you that. My guess is that this is just a part of

their deal and they're going to look at you and go, well, you know, we plan for this to happen and this and that and this happens. So I think what you have to do is, is you go in and you ask a lot of questions. And to the extent that you can always put your leader in a position that you are occupying by asking questions, you know, Hey, how, what would you do if you were me? I'm, I'm, I'm stuck and hung up on that. A part of my, a massive part of my bonus is a negative stock price. And this is just what I'm going through psychologically. And you know more about it than I do. Maybe you don't. You're my leader. What do you think on this? Because I can tell you this, in this situation, I doubt that this is the person directly responsible for this. Sure. Yeah. So what you want to do is, is you want to be heard. And the only way to be heard is to be asking questions so that it's very obvious what your emotions are and what your thoughts are without demands. That's all you can do in a, in a compensation situation like this. Now it would be very different. My advice would be different if it was, I don't think I'm paid fairly. Then you got to go get market research

and you come in and again, same kind of posture. Hey, what do you think about these numbers? I did this research. In this case, this is a company policy. It's how they pay. So you got to raise your hand and not raise an alarm. And that's the only way I know how to do that is through some thoughtful questions. Here's how I'm feeling about this. Is this a long-term strategy? Is this how it's always going to be? What do you know about it? Yeah, yeah.

And then when the leader doesn't feel like they've been put on kind of blast or put in a position where they're in a situation where they don't want to say something that is looked at. Yeah, you don't get the right person, right? Whether it's HR. They got to be careful too. They don't know what you're going to say something that is looked at. Yeah, you don't get the right person, right? Whether it's HR or whoever's doing that. They got to be careful too. They don't know what you're going to say. So it's one of those deals where I don't think you got a lot of wiggle room, not knowing any more than what's on the paper here. If you're not happy with the answer, you're looking for a much better compensation situation somewhere else.

Yeah, for sure. And if you love the job, but you just hate that part of it, then I would do exactly what you guys do. And after they vest up for three years, cash them out, put them somewhere else to actually make a return and call it a day. Yeah, that's right. That's good. Brandon is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Brandon, how can we help today? Hey, guys. My question has to do with single stocks as well. So, what I did is probably about five or six years ago, I had about 14,000 in those stocks combined. So they're at zero now. So I got in touch with the SmartVestor Pro and took some of the money out from my Robinhood that was doing good and that I had made profit on. And so my question is if I have some stocks still left in Robinhood that are like bigger companies, I'm not really afraid of them going under. And I don't know if I should leave them in there to hopefully recruit back some of that loss or just take everything out and put it into the mutual fund that I had

set up. Yeah, I mean, I always, I don't own any single stocks, Brandon, because it's just this concept that all your eggs are in one basket and it's what you experience. I mean, the worst of the worst is what you experience of you put your money in and you lose it all because it was all just in one stock. So the idea of diversification, it's boring. It's probably not as exciting, but it lowers your risk. And over time, I mean, we see over and over again, whether it's the S&P 500, Dow Jones, I mean, it's that 10 to 12% return that you're going to get, again, where your money is mutually funded versus that single stock. So if I were you, Brandon, in your shoes, yes, I would take money out of Robinhood. That's one reason I don't care for Robinhood is because it makes the average person feel

like, oh my gosh, I can do whatever I want with investing. And they put their money in, $14,000, and don't realize the risk or know what's going on, and then they lose the money. So our investing advice overall, Brandon, is not the coolest, flashiest, most exciting advice that you're going to hear. It's pretty boring, but it works every single time. So I would put my money, which it is, in a good mutual fund, even in an index fund, if you want to do that, like a Vanguard kind of account. You could look into something like that, too, if you wanted. But the idea of diversification is really key. so that's that's what i would personally do

are you um like how much are you making a year in general like with your salary and everything uh probably about 85 okay do you have debt no no debt no debt and do you have cash savings just liquid if you need it yeah i have i have, I have enough in like a high yield and then just a regular savings account. Okay, great. Yeah, I mean, the only time, Brandon, I would, and I put crypto in this, I put single stocks in this, I put gambling and a good game of craps in Vegas in this. Like there is a section that once you're debt free, you have a fully funded emergency fund, you're funding retirement, 15% of your income.

Like, you know, you're being wise with 98% of your money. If there's a little bit on the side that if you want to just gamble it away is literally what that is, you can, right? And if you lose it, it doesn't, it didn't take you out

because everything else is fine. And again, this is after you're funding retirement and you're doing what you need to do with money. If there's like a little bit of money on the side that if it burns in the middle of the floor tomorrow, it doesn't change your life. And you want to kind of play around with stuff. That's at that point, that's where I'm like, yeah, that's where crypto comes in or single stocks or gambling. You're like, whatever you want to do just for fun.

What do you still have in those single stocks that you still have money in robbing it? How much is that? It's about $20,000. And on my total returns, I'm down about $9,500 now. So I've made some back, but I don't know. And you're saying those single stocks of the $20,000, they're in large companies? Yeah, larger than what I lost money on, on the smaller ones. I mean, again, you've already talked to a smart investor pro. I'm pretty sure I know what they told you in this situation. I know what you're feeling. You're kind of going, man, sure would

like to get back to at least break even. And let me ask that question. Let's say you got back to break even tomorrow. What would you do then? I'd take all the money out and put it in my mutual fund. I'm not a lawyer, but I would love to play one on TV. And that was my best leading question there. So if that's what you do tomorrow, that's what I'd do today. Okay. Make sense? Yeah.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, not trying to trap you there. I think Dave would have yelled at me from Scotland talking about crypto and gambling and all of it. I laugh all the time because I always say that, and I believe that. But if there's a little part, if you're doing everything else and you want to go

just do what you want to do with it, do it. I think that holds up. I have him in my ear being like, why would you choose to lose money? So, America, I'm just saying that for safe card. You know what my response to that would be? It would be, have you ever played at a great craps table? Because Ken and I have.

And it's fun. It's fun. Especially when they get hot. You're right. If somebody gets hot, everybody's having a good time. And if it's in the blow envelope, I don't know what the problem is. I'm there with you, Rachel. Maybe I won't be in the doghouse. I'm there with you, Rachel. Maybe I won't be in the doghouse.

This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me. We're here for you. 888-825-5225. We were just in a meeting the other day, Rachel and I were. And boy, oh boy, the Live Like No

One Else cruise, it's on its way. I feel like the boat is on its way. Ready to set sail. Yeah, we are. Captain, I'm going to call you Captain Cruise the entire week. It's going to be great. Oh, Cappy. Are you going to have some sort of nautical style going on?

You're always recommending Clothes on the old insta I see you with some type of Yeah Some type of nautical flair Look everybody I got this dress at Walmart For only $7.47

And it's on sale Hey it's going to. Yeah, geez. Hey, it's going to be a lot of fun. I might wear some nautical-themed clothing. I promise you that right now. The Live Like No One Else cruise is almost sold out. 90% of the cabins are booked. You don't want to miss this chance.

This is for baby step four and up because you can do it. And why would you do something like this? Like minds. You know, like values. Having a good time. You can do it. And why would you do something like this? Like minds. You know, like values. Having a good time. You can afford it. We're going to be going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, and the Bahamas.

And I'm told you don't need a passport. So if some of you are like, I don't have my passport, I don't want to have to deal with all that junk at the post office, you know, you don't have to have it because we're American port to American port, I'm told. I don't even know if I said that right, but you don't have to have it because we're American port to American port, I'm told. I don't even know if I said that right, but you don't need your passport. All food is included. Going to be the pools, the hot tubs, all kinds of fun stuff, and pickleball courts.

If you're a pickleball enthusiast like I am, I challenge you. By the way, it's on my desk. Oh, you should bring it next segment. I didn't bring my trophy. All right, next segment I'll bring the trophy. He got a trophy, yeah. By the way, for those of you who have not heard, I won the first, hopefully it's an annual,

Ramsey Personality Pickleball Tournament. I won. George Campbell and Rachel Cruz were the first opponent for me and my brand leader, Damon Galladon. We dispatched of them within eight minutes. It's the quickest pickleball game in recorded history. But when you spin the little ball, it's very difficult to hit.

That's all I'm saying. So Rachel doesn't like it when anybody hits the ball with any spin. It's not fair. You can't hit a ball and not spin it. Do you want me to show? I can demonstrate. You just hit a ball without the spin. It's not fair. You can't hit a ball and not spin it. Do you want me to show? I can demonstrate. You just hit a ball without the spin. But that's your problem. Not everybody else's.

But I digress. Here's the cruise dates. March 22-29, 2025. March 22-29, 2025. All the Ramsey personalities. Trey Kennedy, a great comedian. Stephen Curtis Chapman, Manit Shohan of the Food Network, Deanna Carter, the legendary country music star, and more.

Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. Yep, and everything's included. I'm going to teach you how to spin the ball. Okay, I was going to say, all the food's included. It's going to be a really fun time, so you don't have to be in the kitchen, literally, and on the pickleball court. Oh, I see what you did there.

She's got jokes. I am going to teach her how to hit the ball with some spin. Then all of a sudden you'll be pro spin. There it is. Michael's up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Michael, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. So I need some advice.

Right now I do have $406,000 worth of debt. Does that include your mortgage, Michael? Yes, that includes my mortgage. So I have $102,000 in student loans. $222,000 on my mortgage. $43,000 on a HELOC. $13,000 on a HELOC. Okay. $13,000 on my auto loan. Wait, how much? $13,000 on my car? $13,000 on my auto. Okay. Personal line of credit, no, personal loan, $2,900, $8,000 in credit card, and I have about $24,000 in savings, and that's including stock accounts and, you know, high-yield savings

and all the distance savings. Oh, that's great. Okay. Okay. That's great. Okay. Okay. That's great. Okay. Hold on. I'm making a list real quick.

One second. How new, while she's writing that down, how new to our program are you? So I learned about Dave Ramsey last year at church. Okay. And I did Baby Step 1. I actually taught an STU class at my church in our groups. Okay. But I found myself not actually living up to that standard,

so I need to take a step back and get my stuff right before I teach others about how to live. So this is fun. So if you were leading the class and someone said, Hey, I have $24,000 in savings, and I've got all this debt, and you yourself accomplished baby step one, what would you tell them to do with the rest of that $24,000 in savings and I've got all this debt and you yourself accomplished baby step one, what would you tell them to do with the rest of that $24,000, that $23,000? What would you tell them to do with it, Mr. Teacher? I would tell them to list their debts on small lists to largest

and start knocking them out, knocking them out. Man, that's pretty good advice. That's pretty good advice. Michael, how much do you make a year um i make so my base salary is 108 000 okay boy yeah do you get extra like uh-huh yeah so with bonus around 125 i guarantee okay so i also sell real estate hustle so this my hustle. So this year I made around $18,000 doing that. Oh, good for you. I started the year off with about $12,000 in credit card debt. And I was intentional about selling some houses and using that commission to knock down that credit card debt. And I did, but I built it back up.

But I'm paying it off next week. Okay, yeah. off next week okay yeah so i mean yeah i mean if i were you um gosh i mean you today with that 24 grand you can get the the car the credit cards and the personal line of credit paid off with the 24 000 so that's done i mean just you know speaking and then i mean if you made 145 coming up and let's just pretend you know you lived on 75 and after taxes that's a I mean yeah you got 45 freed up so in a year you can get the HELOC paid off

and then you got a 102 left in student loans and you could do that in probably two years. So what? What do you mean so? What do you mean? Here's the here's the wrench in everything I just said. Okay, give it to us.

So in July, I went on the contract for a new house. I have $8,400 invested in down payment. $400? No, no, $8,400. $8,400, okay. Yes. So the house's new construction is being built it won't be finished till next year the reason i did it was because i've been paying this helot um it was originally 2800 28 000 but the banker convinced me to roll in other debt into the helot because it will save

me some money which it did but when i think about it, now I'm paying around $430 a month on a HELOC, which is mostly interest, and the principal will be coming down. So I bought my house in 2020. I have around $135,000 of equity in the house. When I sell it, I'll be able to take care of the HELOC, the car payment. I'm calculating, hopefully I'll have around $60,000 left after I use the $20,000 for the house. So I'm using $20,000 of the principal. $20,000 will go into the down payment on my house, because

that's the principal I paid for the house I live in now. And I roughly have around, hopefully, $50,000 to $60,000 left over, and then I'll still have, I'll roughly have around like $30,000 left in my savings, around $30,000 in my savings. Okay. Which I was going to use that for my emergency fund. Here's my only thing. But. Here's my only thing.

I'm going to give this to Rachel, but I've got to jump in here. What I don't understand is you taught FPU, you believe in it enough to teach it, you did a portion of it, and while you were paying off debt, you start this process and then you go right back into credit card debt. So all I'm saying is this selling the house is the easy way out, but I'm just curious why it is that you just keep backtracking. It doesn't make any sense. It's like you're... So the credit cards are gone. I know, but my point is you jumped them back up. You told us I paid them down,

then I jumped them back up, and you got 24 cash in the bank right now. You could have paid three of these line items off before you even called us. I'm just curious, what's holding you back from going all in? What's holding me back from going all in is I just don't, over the last couple of years, even the last couple of months, really, I've been having like emergency expenses coming up. And $1,000 in emergency funds wouldn't cover some of the expenses that I think incur such as. Yeah, so Michael, I think, sorry, we're going to a hard break,

but I would just encourage you that when you get focused and get all this debt out of your life, it frees up your income and you don't have payments anymore and you're able to use your income to then fund things in your life. So you're just kind of doing it the opposite way and I would reverse it. Good hour. Hey, the rest of the show you can only get at the Ramsey app network app. Go get it at the app store or Google play. Welcome to the Ramsey show where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work and win in your work, and win in your relationships is the goal.

We're here to coach you up. 888-825-5225 is the phone number, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me. And we're going to get right to the phones. Jordan is up in Louisville, Kentucky. Jordan, how can we help? Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. So I am in a situation where I simply cannot afford my bills. Unfortunately enough, my wife went to jail recently. Oh, darn, I'm sorry. What happened? Well, she had a really tough time with substance abuse. And three years ago, she got into an auto accident that was, technically speaking, it wasn't her fault. They paid $5,000 for an accident reconstruction to prove that. But because she had substances in her system, it automatically made it her fault.

Oh, wow. So at the end of the day, she had to go to jail. I have three little kids. They're all elementary school age. Oh, wow. And I'm not really sure what to do. This time last year, I was making money hand over fist. Now I literally have about $400 to my name,

and I just missed my first mortgage payment. And I've never done that before. Jordan, what were you doing last year and what were you making? Sure. So I was the director of business development for a staffing agency. I am that same, in that same position now, just with a different staffing firm. And I was making $60,000 a year plus commission. I also did security contracting for Ford. That was about $420 a day, 840 bucks a week. And my wife was in the staffing industry as well. And her salary was $40,000 a year plus bonuses and commissions. So you guys were over $100,000.

Oh, yeah. We were at about after the security contracting, and my brother also owns a gun shop, and I do a lot of online sales for him. I was about $170,000 last year. Okay. What happened? Tell us so that we can try to piece this together and help you. What is your income now, and what happened with all this other income? That's a two-part question. What is it now now and what happened with all this other income? That's a two-part

question. What is it now and what happened? Sure. So my income now is I make my base salary $65,000 a year plus commissions. I make about just shy of $1,000 a month in commissions as of right now. I also own, I since started a bounce house inflatable rental company, started that in May, and my partner and I have made about $15,000 or so in profit thus far. But that is a very, very seasonal business and is certainly slowing way down. The security contracting, again, that was just contracting. Ford was having a chip shortage, so they had a lot of vehicles that needed 24-hour security. That's gone. That doesn't exist as much as I would love it to come back.

But it's just gone. It's not an option anymore. So that went by the wayside. My wife lost her job a year ago because of substance abuse. And it has just been holy hell on my kids and myself. So it sounds like you're a guy who doesn't have a hard time making money. I was going one direction with this, Rachel. But you sound like a guy who's been through a lot, by the way.

But you sound like a guy who knows how through a lot, by the way, but you sound like a guy who knows how to make a buck or two. So my question is, is this a debt from maybe some type of therapy or legal expenses? What has got you to a point with your current income, which isn't bad, to where you can't pay your mortgage? What is your debt situation? Share that with Rachel. Where are you at in that? Sure. So in grand total, this includes my mortgage, I'm at just over $300,000 in debt.

Take the mortgage out. Yeah, take the mortgage out. Take the mortgage out, about 50 grand. What is that comprised of? $35,000 is credit cards, and the other $15,000 is on the car loan. Okay. And what was the credit cards for? What were you using them for? Well, when my wife lost her job and we lost security, literally at the same time, we ended up living off those credit cards for a little while, to be honest with you.

I was a lot smarter about it than she was. I was able to pay my credit cards off every time, in full, no matter what, because I had a lot of assets, mostly gold, silver, gold. So Jordan, do you... But I sold them. Okay. The house, the mortgage payment, how much is the mortgage payment a month? $1,700. And how much are you bringing in per month?

Like what's hitting your account average? Every week, I mean, $999.80 is what hits after taxes. Okay. So about $4,000 if it's a four week of a month, right? Four weeks a month. Correct. But then once a month, I get commissions. And last month was just about $900.

Okay. So we'll say $5,000. Okay. So yeah, the mortgage, I mean, it's not terrible. It's still, I mean, it's around that 25%, 30%. So it's still i mean it's around that 25 30 percent so it's not completely outrageous so i think i think the i think the thing is jordan if i were in your position i would i would be so overwhelmed um because so much has changed in a year right with your wife going you being a single

dad i mean all everything that has happened is um i don't blame you for because i'm like i can't i can't even imagine, right? Like this is, you are in a really, really, really hard situation. So I would give yourself a lot of grace. You are used to making a ton of money and everything just flowing naturally and it was easy. And now you're realizing, oh my gosh, life is different. And I'm going to have to make some different decisions and buckle down. Because what I don't want to happen is staying in this pattern, because food, shelter, utilities, transportation, before credit cards are paid, before anything else, like making sure that those things are covered is really, really important.

Yeah, and so I would prioritize the budget, ASAP. I would be looking for extra work on what you can do when your wife, do you know when she's going to be out of jail? It's about a year and a year. Okay. As long as everything goes. Yeah. So I mean, truth be told is she's not coming back to that. I'm going to divorce her. She's had too many, uh, run-ins with the substance abuse stuff. I've never touched drugs in a day in my life, and I never will. And I hate it. I'm done with it.

Hey, Jordan, do you think if you've got a handle on your budget that you could get control of this? Yes or no? Probably so. It's just I am, to be honest with you i i am not good at budgeting i i don't do it i mean yeah my budget is go out and make more money right right right totally yeah and a lot of people that's that's and that's how like and that's probably how you covered your last you know few years of your financial life is you just outworked yourself right outworked your stupidity is what we say so let's help him yeah let's get a session with a coach. Yeah. So every dollar and all that. Yeah. Jordan, if you hold in the line, Christian will pick up. We'll get you a free coaching session with one of

our Ramsey preferred coaches to help build a budget for you. We'll give you every dollar premium, which is the best budgeting app. It's really going to help you and give yourself some grace, Jordan. I would give myself some small milestones. Yeah, you've been through it. Be current on everything. That's your next 90-day plan is to build a budget and get current on everything. And then from there, you can start changing these habits, but it's going to be little by little and that's okay because of what you guys have gone through. It's a lot. So I'm so sorry. You're a great dad. You are. You're a great dad. And Jordan, listen, you're strong. You can do this.

Our coach is going to help you. This budgeting app, EveryDollar, will help you because you can make more money. You're going to be okay. You're going to get through this. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is alongside 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Okay, folks, the average interest rate for a 15-year fixed rate mortgage dropped from 6.14%

in July to 5.68% in August. Well, that's good news for folks. With this week's falling to 5.27%, this is the lowest rates we've seen since February of 2023. So if this trend continues, a lot of people are going to want to get off the sidelines. And that small percentage drop can mean big savings, thousands of dollars over time. Say you purchase a $423,000 home with a 5% down payment. If you take advantage of the current 15-year fixed mortgage rate of 5.27 compared to July's rate of 6.14, you could save around $3,459 in the first year and a total of $33,000 over the 15-year life of the loan. So is that a wake-up call? It needs to be. But remember, only buy if you're financially ready. This means you're debt-free with a full emergency fund and have a good down payment.

So if you are thinking about that and you are in that area and you're sitting there going, all right, I've been waiting, I've been waiting, I've been waiting, now's a good time, find a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent for free to help you buy. Or if you're selling your home, you need a pro. And you can find that pro at RamseySolutions.com slash agents ramseysolutions.com slash agents all right heather's up next in tampa florida heather how can we help hi ken hi rachel thanks for taking my call um my question is is my husband and i are trying to figure out how he can increase his income and move forward in his career. He was considering a data analytics program because he has no formal education outside of high school. We're in Baby Step 3,

so that would be a $2,900 program. And he's also considering some other options. So really, my main question is how we can get his income up and move forward in his career. We just wanted to hear your guys' thoughts. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're taking a step. I mean, the question becomes, where do I want to go professionally? What career path does he want to pivot to? And then what qualifications is he going to need to be able to do that? And pretty straightforward stuff. So does he want to be in technology? Honestly, he kind of goes back and forth. It's something that he likes, but he was trying to figure out a way that, you know, just having a little bit of this education might help him. He's currently in logistics, so he really feels like this could help.

But he's really more passionate about, like, operations, operations management, but he keeps getting stuck. So he's just trying to find any kind of avenue to really just help propel him forward. What do you mean by stuck? He keeps getting stuck. Yeah, so he has applied for multiple roles with different companies over the last two years and trying to build relationships. He's had very few interviews, and he just keeps getting rejected. And even in his current company, the growth is very slow. He's been there for about six years. He just hasn't really seen a lot of upward mobility there. So he just is starting to feel very discouraged.

Sure. Well, I totally understand that. So what we've got to do is we need to look into... So let me put it this way. If I had him in the room right now and I had a whiteboard, I would ask him to share with me the parts of operation management. So you think about a given day, the type of task or the role that he's playing as an operations manager. What of that does he really, really enjoy? And then I'd ask the same question about what part of that is he really, really good at? And we want to look at that. Now we want to go, okay, let's broaden our scope of research and looking into the marketplace from operations manager, which is a very, it's a decent path, but there are multiple different places where he could go

with that. But I would only want to have him do that exercise. And by the way, you can run this by him and just say, Ken said do this. Now here's what we want to do. Once he makes a list of his favorite task or roles within that role of operations manager, in other words, what does he enjoy most about it? Then we can begin to look in other places. So for instance, right off the top of my head, I would want to know, is there some comparative analysis on what he enjoys about operations work versus potentially a project manager? And the reason I mentioned project management, project management is a wonderful ladder to get on. You can get into project management with, again, a low bar of cost of education. So another certification program like that. And then when you get in, here's what's nice about project management, it gives you multiple pathways for growth. You could conceivably take a good project manager

and they could rise up the ranks to be a COO, a potential CFO. I mean, there really is no limit on what the skill set and experience that a project manager brings to you. So I'm trying to give you a real tangible example to say, okay, he's interested in data analytics. There's a reason. What is he interested in the data analytics part? Probably he really loves the process work and he's a process type thinker. Is that true? Yes, that's exactly it. Okay, great. So he's good at process and he likes process. So there's our general clue. So now we're going to, we're not going to get discouraged. We're going to get determined. And so it doesn't mean he gives up on operation manager roles. And I'm going to help with that in a second, but he also begins

to look at, okay, let's play this data analytics thing out. And so you're calling on his behalf, but if he were on the phone, I'd say, have you done the research on what a path upward looks like in data analytics? So in other words, if I take an entry-level job, Rachel, in data analytics, I'd want to know what does growth look like 5, 7, 10, 15 years in that field? What does it spawn into? He needs to know that, Heather. And to the extent that he knows that, and he goes, all right, that keeps me in that process type work, then I would consider a $2,900 data analytics program. And by the way, that's enough money. I mean, that's such a small amount of money that you guys, Rachel, correct me if I'm wrong here, I'd be okay cash flowing that while still building Baby Step 3. Because if we've done our homework.

So Heather, I'm going to give you a couple of things. My gift to your husband, okay? Because I understand he's discouraged. I'm going to give you the new book that I wrote. It's called Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And in the book itself, it has an assessment in the back of the book. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. And I'm not going to break it all down for the audience right now, but it's going to really help him see what he's good at,

what he enjoys doing, and what motivates him. It's going to give him a lot of ideas, and it'll help determine whether data analytics is a direction for him. Second thing I'm going to give is the book, The Proximity Principle. This book is all about relationshiping yourself into opportunities. And I'm going to give you that as well. I really think he needs to read that because if he wants to keep going and get out of this dead-end job that he's in now, it's going to be through relationships, not resume submissions. Okay? So those are my two gifts for him.

I think that'll really help him. And then Christian will also help. If he'd be willing to come on my show and we could do a little bit longer deep dive into his situation after he's used those resources, we'll schedule that as well. Rachel, any thoughts on that, on the money spend in the middle of that or anything? No, I mean, I'm just I'm excited for you guys, Heather. I think, you know, Ken laid out, you know, the potential that there's a lot of opportunity. And even though, you know, it's just a high school degree, like you said said that's not stopping people these days of making some really good money and so I think knowing his strengths

and plugging into that that's going to bring him joy and again I think that was also really wise is to plug into these industries and know what is the upward trajectory because that's what's stagnant now in his life so making sure yeah that there's a way for him to to continue to grow and and I think it's great. I always feel like a new job, career adventure like that is so exciting. It kind of puts some energy into life. And so I think there's a lot of opportunity. One last encouragement I give not just to Heather's husband, to our greater audience right now. One of the things that's easy for people to do, Rachel, is they feel like I've been in one field or I've been in with one company for a long

time. And what they fear is that they don't have transferable skill and transferable experience. And so that little silly kind of example I gave of getting it out on paper or on a whiteboard for you to be able to see, oh, even though I've only been in this field, I have real skill and real experience that is transferable in a completely different industry and a completely different company. And I just share that with our greater audience because a lot of people are always worried about layoffs and the economy and what would happen if I were to get kicked out of the nest. And I think always being aware of how I could transfer that skill and experience. And then here's the second thing, Rachel,

we are living in a new job economy and upskilling is necessary for all of us, me included. I'm learning how to use AI. We all have to be going, what are the skills that we need to add to our tool belt so that we can adapt to an ever adapting work economy. Hope that encourages many of you. Hey, we got to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with more calls.

This is the Ramsey Show. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me and we are here for you. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Lansing, Michigan is where we go next, and Danny is there. Danny, how can we help? Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? I'm looking to move out of my parents' house sometime in the near future. I bought a new car about a year ago, and I just saved up enough to where I could potentially pay off the remainder of the loan on that car. And I'm wondering if it makes sense for me to pay that off and not have an emergency fund or have a very small emergency fund and move out or continue, keep making the payments and then further build up that emergency fund.

How much is the car payment? I mean, the car loan total? So I have about $12,000 left on the car. Okay. And I have about $13,000 in my emergency fund right now. Awesome. What other debt do you have? I have no other debt. Okay. And how much are you making a year? So I make $70,000, about $70,000 a year, and then I take home a little bit over $4,000 a month.

Okay. That's great. What do you do? I'm an engineer. So you've got a nice path going forward i like to think it um sometimes i can get down on myself but you know um it pays the bills for now and it does a pretty good job at that so let me let me just reassure you you've got options my friend you if you want to and you're intentional and you're serious about growing and you believe in yourself you you got options. But this is pretty straightforward, Rachel.

How old are you, Danny? I'm 24. Oh, my gosh. Making 70 grand as an engineer. So we're in, what's our month right now? We're in September. So when we get off the phone, Danny, I would pay off the car. And then I would have a goal by January 1, I'm moving out.

Give yourself about three months to just get some savings under you. I think that's wise. But I'd get out. You're making $70,000. It's time to go. And go rent somewhere. Go find an apartment and, yeah, go rent. Okay, that sounds awesome.

Yeah. You guys think that running is a good idea in this economy. People always tell me that, you know, you're not building equity when you're renting an apartment. People are broke, Danny. Most people don't have money. And you're single and 24. You don't have anything to put a down payment. Now, that would be your next goal.

So the goals are pay off this debt, get out on your own, get a fully funded emergency fund. So you're going to be saving up for that. And then your next goal, yes, I would then save up for a down payment, at least 5% for our first time home buyer. But being out on your own at the very beginning and at 24, I would not rush it. Number one, life stage. If you know you're going to be in this area for five years or more, that's when you would plant roots from a real estate perspective. But when there's a big life change like this, when you're going out on your own, really for the first time, I'm assuming after school, you moved in with your parents and you've been there since.

Is that right? Correct. Yeah. So I think getting some feet, grounding under you for a year or two and renting is totally fine. And then, yeah, deciding, hey, let's put some roots down after you have that down payment and you're fine. There's no rush.

And that's the problem, Danny. And we've even talked to callers today on this show. They've rushed into a house and now the house is 40% of their income. And it's not good when you look at the percentages. And that's the problem is people get so fearful of, oh gosh, I don't want to rent. I need some equity.

I need to just jump in. Then you make your options yeah so just slow down you're good one step at a time you have the time and that's what i would do have you done any research on apartments in your area that you're interested in and what those prices would be per month i have what are we talking about in lansing area? So I'm looking, I currently work about an hour away from where I live with my parents. So I'm leaving at the moment. Okay, that's another reason to change. Get your life back. Yes, definitely.

That's definitely a big factor as well. I feel like it would be a long time. Two hours a day, bro. That's nuts. Yeah. I know, it adds up. What's the rent in the area near where you work? Sure. So I've seen it ranges anywhere from $900 to $1,200. Obviously, there are much nicer areas

that can go up to $1,500. Is that a one-bedroom or two? So currently, I'm looking at a one-bed. Yeah, I would do that for $1,000. That's 25% of your take-home pay at $4,000, so it's perfect. I got George Camel in my head. Why? Because he's always go get the roommate. I know. Look at you. I love you squinching your nose up.

You can afford to live on your own. I'm not saying he needs to get a roommate. I was just curious. That's where I was going with that. You know what I mean? George would. It depends on how cheap you want to go. He's super cheap. You know what I mean? George would. It depends on how cheap you want to go. He's super cheap.

I know. And so if it's $1,500 for a two-bedroom or whatever, then you're splitting that. It's not that much difference for you to have your own place. So I'm with Rachel. You can afford your own, but if you wanted to lower the rent, yeah. I was just trying to walk through it. It's great.

I'm glad you're bringing options to the table, Ken. You look down your nose at George. I'm going to tell him as soon as the show's over. Now listen, if you're working your way out of debt and there's like a hey i'm gonna rent out two of my bedrooms in the house i own and make some cash you know dan you're in good shape buddy boy pay oh man get just get yeah get out get out of dodge pay the pay the oh boy yeah i you know what 24 year olds getting out on their own it, it's such a good thing for them. Yes.

You know, just get out and learn. You can always come back if you blow it. And there's something about knowing you are responsible for it all. Milk in the refrigerator, if things are getting paid. I mean, there's just a level of responsibility. Do 24-year-olds drink milk these days? I don't know. It's always the example I use. I think you need a different example.

My kids eat cereal all the time. Maybe it's green tea. I bet people have milk. Yes. 24-year-olds, they probably don't drink milk out of a glass like we used to when we were little, but I'm sure they have milk in their refrigerator. Show of hands in the lobby. How many of y'all have milk in your refrigerator right now?

50-50. 50%. No way. Wow. Really? 50%. Yeah. I think, listen, I'm not knocking. I'm going to get a nasty email from the dairy farmer.

Loafs of bread? Okay, bread will be my example now. In the fridge? No, just having bread, fresh bread. It's up to you. All right. All right. I digress.

Let's go to Lisa in Dallas, Texas. Lisa, how can we help? Hi. Hi. I am wondering how best to advise my parents on their retirement strategy. Firstly, whether they should do a Roth or a traditional at their age. And secondly, whether they should max out and take advantage of catch-up contributions or just do the 15% since they still have a mortgage.

No, yeah, the catch-up contributions is great at this age. How old are they? They're in their mid-50s. Okay, yeah, I would do that. And yeah, running the numbers between the traditional and the Roth at that age is a good exercise to do. Usually, for the most part, depending on their tax bracket, they're still going to come out better with the Roth,

but I have seen situations where the traditional, actually from an age depending on their tax bracket, they're still going to come out better with the Roth. But I have seen situations where the traditional actually from an age standpoint, a tax standpoint is a better option. So I, do they have an investment professional that they're sitting down with? They don't, they are pretty much starting over financially. And I think there's a lot of fear To get going And so we're just Taking little steps at a time At this point trying to get them to open her off

Yep totally Well you know it may help Sometimes fear can be eliminated Some with just information And again not someone telling them What to do but them having more Information on their side and then they get to do, but them having more information on their side. And then they get to actually make a decision with the information they have.

And that's why I think sitting down, especially with their age and if they're starting over with a SmartVestor Pro, I would sit down with an investment professional because what they're going to be able to do too, Lisa, is not only look from a tax implication standpoint, but also age what the market's doing. Because sometimes they'll put people in more of aggressive funds, sometimes more conservative, depending on different factors, just to get the most out of the time that they have. But realistically, if they don't have a lot saved, would you say they're 52, 50?

They'll be 55. 55, yeah. And so if they don't have much saved, I mean, they'll still probably be working mid-60s mid 60s, possibly like work still probably will be part of their future here for the next decade or so. So I think expectations is important, too. But if you hang on the line, Christian can pick up and help direct you to get a smart investor pro in those area. And in Dallas, we have we have multiple but can even help too, Lisa, if you want, because you're calling the show on their behalf. Maybe interviewing a couple, one or two, find one that you feel good

about and sit down and lay out a game plan, because I think they're going to be able to help faster than we will for a three-minute call here. But I appreciate your heart for your parents, but I would sit down with a professional for sure to look at all the ins and outs. She is Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me. Our scripture of the day is Jeremiah 9.23. This is what the Lord says. Let not the wise boast of their wisdom, or the strong strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan. The Gipper himself. Man, I miss that guy.

We don't have inflation because the people are living too well. We have inflation because the government is living too well. Thank you. Well, well, well. Thank you, team. That was just a little hug for me today. I'm going to leave that alone because that's not the segment.

But boy, is there not some unbelievable truth in that? Maybe in another segment, James will let me explain why we have inflation. But that is not now. Yes, Rachel, you were going to say? I just said Ken loves Reagan. Out of any president, I feel like you always go back to Reagan. I do love Ronnie.

Have you seen the movie? Not yet, but Stacy and I are seeing it this weekend. Oh, you are? I'm very excited. I'm curious how it is. I'm very excited. Tim is going to join us in Los Angeles. Tim, how can we help today?

Hey, how's it going? Appreciate you guys taking my call. Brief rundown, I'm 25 years old. I make about $150,000 per year, but I run a business, so it could go up to about $20,000 a year, depending on how the rest of the year goes. But I live in California, so taxes are crazy. Housing is crazy. And my question is,

I currently rent, uh, I want to buy a house. I'm getting to the age of like trying to, you know, settle down and whatnot. Um, but I'm, you know, kind of stuck with like $800,000 houses, right. Um, and if I use Dave Ramsey's, um, you know, it's like $300,000 up there. Again, single income, or I can move out of state, or just continue renting. My family lives in Southern California. That's kind of keeping me out here. I would love to know what you guys think about that. Yeah, it's very simple. Leave. Move to another state. I mean, you gave us the evidence there. It just doesn't make any sense for you financially. You can do what you want to do, but you're asking us, should you stay or should you go?

I say go. Let's go to April in Washington, D.C. April, how can we help? Hi there. Yeah, I'm calling because I'm in a situation where my car, my 2015 car needs $7,000 worth of repairs. It's the transmission, so it does need to get fixed. I'm trying to decide how to come up with that $7,000. I do have an emergency account of over $6,000.

However, unfortunately, my ex-husband doesn't regularly pay child support, and so I often have to dip into that account to cover costs for my children, and it makes me really nervous to use that. I'm trying to figure out what to do. Do I take out a line of credit against my house? Do I get a credit card? April, how much do you make a year? $107,000. Okay. And how much is the car worth, did you say?

About $13,000. Okay, because I'm just wondering, you putting it in. How many, have you gotten a second opinion about this? Because I always just find with, you have, okay,000. Okay. Because I'm just wondering, you putting it in, how many, have you gotten a second opinion about this? Because I always just find with, you have. Okay, good. I have. I've gotten three and all of them are $7,000. Okay. Okay. Oh, good for you. Good on the due diligence. So here's the deal, April. What happens in these situations, if you choose not to cash flow it, which is going to hurt for a period of time, but you'll be able to get some cash back in with savings and tightening up your budget.

That is less risky, in my opinion, than going down this path of debt where not only do you have a car problem, but then on the other side of it, you're going to have a money problem. And so what happens is we kind of end up digging ourselves deeper in a hole, trying to fix it with less pain and kind of what makes us less fearful

over here. But it ends up most of the time being more of a hassle with the debt side, because now you have payments and you're trying to figure, okay, how do I pay this off and all of it? So it turns a car problem and a money problem, you know, two problems versus we have a car problem. I have some cash. I'm going to fix it, hold my breath. And we're going to just plow through the next month or two and get as much cash back into that emergency fund ASAP. Because I want you to be your emergency funds and not equity in your house and going deeper into debt for it. So I know it does seem scary. And so is it drivable at all right now? It is drivable, but I have been taking other modes of transportation when I can. Yep.

And to drive my children around, it doesn't feel safe. Yes. No, I hear you. I hear you. And so I am in a place where I have a couple weeks until somebody is going to let me borrow their car for a few months. Oh, that's great. Yeah. I was able to figure out that I could save approximately like $2,000 at that point if I can borrow their car for a few months. Yeah.

But it still doesn't get me to that $7,000 that I need. Are you involved in a church? I am, and that was, yes, I am. I am involved in a church. I'm going to throw, I'm just, what I'm trying to do right now is get super innovative, okay? And I say super innovative. This isn't very innovative, but like, let's think outside the box, okay? Does your church have a program where they fix cars for single moms by any chance?

I can definitely ask. My son is currently in a diesel mechanics program, and I did ask him if he would ask his instructor if they would be willing to work on my car. Brilliant. Brilliant. Or if there was somebody in the class that would be willing to do it, obviously for payment, but cheaper. Brilliant. Let me tell you something else I would do, and I'm putting myself in your shoes. I'm going to exhaust every avenue I have to try not to spend

$7,000. Okay. And you've already got some great options. It's giving you, I love the borrowing the car. It's brilliant. I love that love you swallowed your pride here. This is a moment where I'm on social media going, Hey, here's my situation. Does anybody have a family member who's a mechanic to help me save some money on this? Because the way that they get to the 7,000, as you know, and you probably have a detailed quote is my guess. If you don't have a detailed quote, I want to see parts plus labor. And this is also going to sound foreign to some of you, maybe a lot of you, but I'm telling you what I would do if I were you, single mom in a situation where you got a deadbeat dad who's not doing his part. I get real angry about that stuff. I would go to your mechanic if you have a relationship with one of those three quotes where they've worked on your car before and I go,

here's my situation. Can you help me on the labor? What they can't do, they can't eat it on the parts, but they may find it in their heart to go, you know what, we'll do it for 50% of the labor. That may get it down a thousand. You know, my point is I would be doing all of those things, but you know, I just believe in America today that if you went on social media and said, hey, does anybody have a family member who's a mechanic? Spread the word. And I hope people would say, you know what? And by the way, tell your story.

Go, here's my situation. I'm coming out of a divorce. You don't have to lay out the guy like I laid him out. But, you know, tell your situation. Right. And what do we have to lose? Okay. But maybe somebody goes, you know what, I'll help out a single mom who's, you know, she's

up against the wall financially. And you know what? My cousin, Billy Bob, can change a transmission in about 47 minutes. Okay. And, you know, why not? Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to try to get outside the box

because you have nothing to lose. And by the way, I'm sure there's about seven more ideas that I didn't think of. That was great. But that's the idea. And I think where there's a will, there's a way. I believe that. And I believe that people want to help people.

And I think the most underutilized question in the world, Rachel, is, will you help me? She's not a deadbeat. She's in a tough situation. And I wish that I had that skill. But I know that the church you and I go to locally has a program where we donate cars. And we have men in the church and women that fix those babies up and then we donate them but i also believe that our same church if she were to walk in and tell her situation that we don't have a list i mean usually and most churches will do that

of services of people that say hey i'm willing to to serve and to give my time if anyone ever needs it yeah for this very situation so i i hope. It's great, Ken. I love that. I hope that helps April. Because for you, April, $500, $1,000, $1,500 changes this equation. You know? It's huge.

Every little bit helps. I believe you could get the whole thing done. Or at least play for the parts. So anyway, thanks for the call, Rachel. Excuse me, April. You're Rachel.

She's April. I'm Ken, I think. And this has been The Ramsey Show. See you soon. I'll see you next time.