The Ramsey Show - App - You Work Too Hard to Stay This Broke

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that you love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Waschall, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personalities, my co-host today. The phone number here if you folks want to talk is triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5. Maria is in New York City. Hi Maria, how are you? Hi, I am so excited to be on with you both and thank you so much for taking my call and you two are my favorite combination. So thank you, how are you guys?

You say that to everybody. You say that to all the personalities. Also. Never. What's up today? Oh my goodness. So really excited to speak to you. I know I'm walking into the bear

cage, very nervous, but my husband and I, we make a combined income of almost $300,000 and we're living paycheck to paycheck. We have two kids. We have been Ramsey-ish for about two years, but life keeps getting in the way between funeral expenses for family. Our daughter has severe ADHD, and it just feels like we cannot get ahead, long enough to be able just to follow the steps and the plans, and it's causing a lot of financial anxiety, and I can go into background and anything that you need to help just me figure out how to move forward with with the

amount of money that we have and living paycheck to paycheck it just it's it's foolish yeah well it's distressing for you I can tell and so you live in an expensive city obviously yeah and obviously you've got an expensive medical condition that you're dealing with and those two things go in the budget and they show up in the long some of the some ways they show up in the budget so where do you think the problem is if you were to write if you you know I assume you've attempted at some kind of written budget yes I have every dollar premium version I have notes in front of me so our budget so here's what seems to be happening. We do have a budget. Could we be better at it? Absolutely. But what keeps

happening is are these large purchase, large bills, if you will. So about a year and a half ago, our mother passed and we covered the funeral expenses a couple of weeks ago. Why? Why did they not have arrangements to cover her funeral expenses? Unfortunately, and this may be where my financial anxiety comes from, my parents raised a very large family on a single income from my father and did not have financial, you know, responsibility basically and you know, just really.

So there was absolutely no assets in the estate. Correct, exactly. None whatsoever. What did you spend on the funeral? About 13 grand. And so you said big things keep coming up, so the funeral was one. What's another example of something that's coming out of the blue? Yes, so my brother just passed away sadly a couple of weeks ago. I'm sorry. Yeah I know it's been a rough two years so that's another expense but in between then what has come

up. You're paying for that funeral too? Correct. How are you are you cash flowing it what's that look like? So that was, you know, this is where my problem is because all I want to do is cash flow it and it feels that I'm not able to. Your brother's different than your mother. Why is no one, is he single? He is single. Or was he? Yeah, he was.

Sorry. He was single. And, you know, really right now out of a few of us kids, it's my sister and I are really the only ones that are the most financially stable. Okay. So how much did you pay for your brother's funeral? $8,000. And you did not pay cash? Correct. We put that on a credit card. Okay. And so that

didn't bust your budget it broke your bubble but not your budget so why can't you live on 300k? I'm calling. No I'm serious when you write down your budget what's the problem because you're looking at it in front of you on every dollar. Right. Where's the freaking money going? These are two isolated incidents what's been happening over the years what do you see where do you see the when you look at month-to-month you got 25,000 bucks minus taxes coming in yeah and so you got you know you're dealing with 20 grand or so to take home is thirteen thousand six hundred a month there's something all right is that

minus that's half of what it ought to be. So I bring home 8,000. My husband brings home 56. He pays for insurance out of his check and we both do contribute to retirement. How much? Okay, that's the problem. Yeah, 15%. You have no money.

You don't put money in retirement. You're stop. Yeah. Stop and get it budgeted. And what else have you got? Have you got big tax refunds coming? No, we owe every year. Okay.

For the last couple years. So now we've asked our employers. How much is your rent or your house payment? Our mortgage is 2,700. That's not out of line. Okay. Yeah. And how much are your car debts?

We paid off my husband's car and mine. have eight thousand that we're looking to pay off. What other debts do you have? We have two credit card total debt including this funeral now is 17,800. You don't have much debt, so that's not where it's going. It's not your house payment. That's not where it's going. Do you have kids in daycare? Lots of kids? Well, we have two children and that's what I was going to get to. It's like how house payment. That's not where it's going. Do you have kids in daycare? Lots of kids? Well, we have two children and that's what I was gonna get to.

It's like, how do we, so our daughter's ballet, it's ridiculous. I'm afraid of what your response is gonna be. It's $10,000 a year. Our son plays software. That's not the problem. That's not the problem either. I'm trying to figure out what's eating up.

That's 800 bucks a month. Yeah, what's eating up $20,000 a month? And I haven't seen it because you have 8,000 on the card, these credit cards. I mean, what's the payment on the credit000 a month and I haven't seen it because you have 8,000 on the car these credit cards What I mean, what's the payment on the credit cards? What do you pay every month? So here what we end up know what we and what we seem to be in cycle Off is banking money and then paying off the debt right trying to do the snowball Because you're trying to make up your own freaking plan. So the man, what do you do for a living?

What's your husband do for a living? He is a teacher and I'm a school psychologist that moved into administration, so I'm a principal. Okay, all right. Both of you are in administrative type roles, okay? And so if I hired you and said, balance these people's budget that make 300k, you could do it. It's not an intellectual circus.

It's not that hard. So you could do it. But there's something, you aren't working together. You're not willing to say no to eating out. You're not willing to stop your retirement savings. You're not willing to sit down and let's get this. This thing has to balance. You're not willing to stop your retirement savings, you're not willing to sit down and let's get this, this thing has to balance, you're not in Congress. And you guys have to look at this with a more serious eye,

it sounds like you keep circling around the airport and have refused to land. Yeah, because if she's really saying that the only debt they have is 17,000 in credit cards and 8,000 in cars, that money is something she's not telling us is it. They're spending money have is 17,000 in credit cards and 8,000 in cars. That money's something is she's not telling us. They're spending money on $10,000 here on on ballet and then you know and the ADHD was probably 10 or 15 grand on something they did overdid and so you overdo everything and you're living drama to drama crisis to crisis and you're letting that stuff dictate your life

rather than you dictating to that stuff and so let's pretend you didn't have any money and your brother died. Well who's gonna pay for the funeral? I guess it wouldn't be you. So we have to start thinking about these things and or you know we're gonna do the $1,200 cremation you know this is what happens if you die and there's no one to take care of you the state will cremate you that's what happens okay and so I'm not suggesting being that cold but you guys got to start looking at some of these things and quit calling them all these crises are taking precedent and you've got to take precedent over the crises

because the budget becomes king and the two of you have to be working on it together I don't think he's real involved here Amanda's in Greenville South Carolina hey Amanda what's up hey Dave how are you better than I deserve how can I help thank you so much. Um, well, I have a question about some family finances. My husband and I started Financial Peace University about a month ago and in doing so, we kind of uncovered, well, I uncovered some things about some family traditions with money that his family has that is making me a little bit uncomfortable. Like yesterday morning he got a text from his mom saying, hey you owe us $100.

And that happens quite frequently throughout the year, probably maybe five or six times a year. For what? So there's a family lake house and like taxes on the lake house I Think the most recent one was for the tailgate parking spot Sometimes it's for if we've spent the weekend with them. It's for food from the weekend, which we don't mind Paying for those things, but it's an after-the-fact type of thing. Is he on the is he one of the owners of the lake house? No, he is. And the tailgate spot, that sounds like a football thing. Correct. So somebody somebody purchased the spot and if you use it you have to pay back that person

is that what it is? Well we have a different spot, we buy our own spot for the year. Why would you pay for theirs? Well, that's my question. And why is it you're just now discovering this? How long you've been married? We celebrated our third anniversary on Tuesday. So how much does this amount to? Is this like a hundred bucks a month?

Has this happened like twice in the year? What does it amount to? So for the tailgate spot, it's a hundred dollars and that would be for the year, what does it amount to? So for the tailgate spot it's $100 and that would be for the year. But it just always, it's never something I expect and it's always been something that he paid until we combined our finances a month ago. It was something that he just paid for out of his money. And thank you to John Delaney building a non-anxious life because it really helped us to get on the same page.

So when you say to your husband, this makes me uncomfortable, what does he say? Mm-hmm. So he actually had a conversation with his mom last night saying, you know, no more of this retroactive stuff with you guys spending money and then us paying you back. You know, you need to have a conversation with us upfront. And her response was,

are you sure you want to do this budget thing? Okay. Yeah, that was not the statement. The statement was not about our budget. The statement was, you have to tell us in advance or we're not going to pay you. Right. That's it. She doesn't get a vote on your budget or your marriage or anything that happens inside your house. She's the mother-in-law. By definition, that means she does not get a vote. If anybody doesn't get a vote, it's her. Yeah, how does she even know about it?

Of all the people on the planet, she's the one that has the least chance of getting a vote. Well, right. I'm serious. I mean, the worst position you can possibly be in is to be the mother-in-law for the son. It is the weakest position on the planet and the most power-hungry. Okay. And I do realize it's a difference in culture from my family. I was raised by a CPA.

You know, but that's not the point. The point is your husband said to someone outside your home, we will not accept surprise billings anymore. And that's the end of the story. Period. Okay. And by the the end of the story. Period. And by the way, you did do this right. He talked to her. You don't need to be brought up in this because you'll become the evil girl that took her baby boy away. Well, I learned that from listening to your show for about two weeks now. So thank you.

So that was very good. Good. I'm glad you caught on to that. You're doing it right. Yeah. And here's the thing. It's okay. I mean, you guys you caught on to that. You're doing it right. Yeah. And here's the thing. It's okay. I mean, you guys can be gentle about this. You don't need to be harsh about it because it's not a lot of money. It's just an emotional boundary violation.

Right. And it's just, you know, mom, we don't want to be in a parking spot for tailgating. We have our own. Right. You know, it's the deal. And if we're going to do something in the Ramsey family, we got a lake house, I'm going down there this weekend, same thing. If we're gonna do something and Sharon, my wife, gets tired of doing all the

cooking. So she emails the girls, including the daughter-in-law and the two daughters, and says whoever's gonna be here, y'all need to talk about what you're gonna cook, because I'll help you, but'm not going to do it all. And you guys got, we're going to figure this out a little bit. And so you're all like grown women and stuff. And so this is, and the girls go, okay, yeah, we'll chip in. And they don't mind doing that. We talk about it up front and, but we don't send them a bill two weeks later for catering. Right. Right.

Okay. Okay. That makes sense. What do you think about the taxes on the Lake house? I mean, we do. Why would you be obligated to pay taxes on someone else's Lake house? Well, that was my question because it's not, um, my husband's name is not on the house. That's why I asked. That was kind of my question. Yeah. The taxes on my Lake house if you want, since you're paying for other people's Lake houses. I mean, why not? Right. That's about as dumb. I agree. When you asked your husband what did he say? What was the reason?

Did he make a promise that he would do that? I don't think so I think it was just an implication when they built the house you know he was on college and I think that's just kind of how it ended up. When you're in college and your parents build a lake house, they don't call up and go, you gotta pay taxes. You're in college. These people are weird. Okay. And not the good kind of weird.

I know, it's not a good Ramsey weird thing. So I mean, yeah, no, we don't pay taxes on somebody else's lake house. And I don't know how this tradition started, but it's a weird tradition and it really needs to stop. Yeah, that's not a tradition. No, it's a tradition for these people. And so they have some weird things they do.

And we've just got to, but you can be gentle about it. I'm being a little bit bombastic because it's a little bit absurd and I want you to hear it's absurd, but you guys can be gentle about moving away from mom and dad look we're working hard on this stuff we're trying to get ourselves out of debt and it's your lake house and I'm not I'm no longer comfortable paying the taxes on your lake house okay and and you know I'm gonna let you know that

way in advance so this fall when the taxes come to you're not caught off guard you know is it part of you being able to go and, and hang out there several times a year? Is that what it is? Is it just the. No, well it shouldn't be. Well, I didn't think so until I found out that that was the expectation. Okay.

So that's the expectation. You come and use the lake house. I didn't know about that until about a month ago. You get to use the lake house twice a year and in return you pay how much? How much are the taxes? I think my husband, when I looked it up on the county records it said something like $4,000 for the year and I think he paid like $300 or $400 last year.

Okay. Yeah, I, do these people, they're not able to afford the lake house is that the problem? Well that's my, I told my husband I was like you know if it's a lifestyle that they can't afford then they shouldn't be doing it. Yeah. But it and I try not to be critical but when you dip your hands into our finances then. Well how often do you go to the lake house? Just you guys. Maybe five weekends a year. If you know if the deal is you don't get to go to the lake house because you're unwilling to pay $300 a year rent, to use the family in air quotes lake house, then that's a decision you all can make. But basically you're being asked to pay some of the expenses because you're using it as a rental.

And if you don't wanna use it, then their decision might be that they don't want someone who's not willing to pay to come. And that would be okay. If that's how they wanna do it. They're running an Airbnb for the family, I guess. I don't know. But a cheap one, but it's still there.

But again, I've got a lake house and I pay the taxes. Nobody else pays the taxes, regardless of who visits. John Delaney was down there one time and I didn't ask him for any rent. That's just, you have guests at your lake house. If you do a deal up front and the family is a family partnership to buy something, but you don't

do that with a college student. Now it doesn't sound like that. It sounds like they said if you're going to use our house, they're going to give you some money. These people are very intertwined and they don't have good clear boundaries. And so it's time to untangle some of this. But now you need to be fair that if you're not willing to chip in on the expenses they may not want you to use it five weekends is a lot to give up for $300 I'm not that's a fair yeah expectation on their part they

may say look only those that chip in can use it yeah cuz that's that's them saying hey while you're there you're paying basically the utilities while you're there I don't think I could go there but I mean I do tell you know like whoever's down there next weekend when I'm not, fill the dead gun boat up with gas when you leave. Hello? Yeah. You know, I do tell them to do stuff like that, but my kids, I mean, my grown kids, what a... That's such an oxymoron.

Adult children. The adult remsies, yes. The gen two, gen two can fill up the boat. You should leave the place better than you left it. But by the way, I don't also say you can't come back if you don't do that. That's true. Either. So, you know, storming and we forgot to do it. Whatever. And whatever. Wow. Some people's children. This is the Ramsey Show. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where your money's going, the first step is a plan.

It's called a budget. And our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month. Did I mention they're free? You learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar and you get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A. Sign up for free. Did I mention it's free? Atdollar.com slash webinar. Jessica in San Antonio. Hi Jessica, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I

am currently I'm a single mom and I've been trying to tackle my debt for the last couple years. And this summer I had thought I am going to try to really do it aggressively, get a second part-time job while the kids are out of school and work on that. Right before summer happened or summer came, child support stopped coming in. So my second job pretty much brings in the same amount, child support stopped coming in. So my second job pretty much brings in the same amount as child support. I'm kind of right back where I was. What are you doing to get him activated again? At the moment there's really nothing I can do because it just happened. So it's like a wait and see if

months go on that he doesn't pay then I can start Yeah, I mean it's like an on-again off-again thing with him. So not the first time I've been here. How much is the child support? It's about nine hundred dollars a month how many kids you got kid I have to what age 13 and 11, okay. How long have you been single mom? Um probably uh going on 10 years now. Wow you've been fighting this a long time. Yeah. So what do you make? Um I make about 54,000 a year. Okay, good. Are you plugged into a good church? I am. Good. Okay, and who's watching the kids while you're working so much?

They sometimes will stay home if it's a short shift or they'll be with friends or my sister. Good. It's good that you have that help. Hence on who's available. And what do you do for a living? I am an office manager for a physical therapy clinic. Good for you. Well done. All right. And so your core question is what again? How to avoid burnout while trying to do all this.

Well here's the thing, you've made it ten years with avoiding burnout and it's really an incredible thing that you've done because that's been a tough slog. The math that you're giving me is no easy walk, okay. So you truly are a warrior princess. I mean you've been doing it and the burnout comes when you don't think there's any light ever at the end of the tunnel. It doesn't come from it being hard.

You can do hard. We know that by just hearing your story. But the hard becomes burnout when you don't think it's ever gonna stop. Well we know it is gonna stop because you got a 13 year old five years from now that one's done. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I mean we know that's gonna stop and the other one's 11 so you know seven years from now. So we know know, that there is an end to this in terms of the weight of raising children by yourself financially. And so what I would do is two things, and Jade you jump in here, but one is I'm always

looking at both sides of the equation, the income side and the out go side. You have a good income, but it's not great. So I wanna start thinking about over the next three to 10 years or five years or whatever it is, what I'm gonna be doing that makes me 100K. I don't want a 38 year career as the office manager making 50K. Right.

I don't mind, I don't mind. It's a good job, it's stable, and you're probably a great team member, but I want to know okay what is it I'm gonna do to own one of these or what is it I want to be in the next phase and I'm gonna start studying and taking the classes, get the certifications to do that thing and have a long plan. And that helps with burnout because you can see out there into the future that there's something to do. And in the short term, do what you're doing and that is add income by, you know, by a

great side hustle. And the side hustle has one definition, which one makes the most money if it's moral and legal? Yeah. Because there's no, the side hustle is not for purpose of your career, it's how can I make the most possible money in an hour that's moral and legal? Yeah. And so, and then that helps.

And then lastly, I would just say the secret to happiness is low expectations on child support Yeah, because this guy this guy's not a good dad. He's not a good provider He never has been it's been a pattern to expect this money to come every month is Is not reality setting yourself and so when it does come I'm gonna go wow That's awesome. I'm gonna act surprised every time it comes. You there? Yeah, yes sir. Yeah, I think that Dave is right.

I think when you're in survival mode, you don't feel like you have the luxury to really think career-wise, what is it that I would really love to do? What would it look like? You know, there's really no time for that. Um, just when you're struggling in life and financially. Um, but if you can carve out that time and do that, because we say all the time,

you know, there's two components to this puzzle and one is, you know, to cut your expenses massively, which you've done that that's been your whole life for 10 years. And then the other piece of that is you do have to get your income up and not just side hustling, but yeah, really looking at that core income. And that is a journey over time. Have you got debt you need to clear? Yes, I do.

What is it? Right now it is with my car, right around 20,000. Yeah, that's a lot yeah that's an expensive car for your situation yeah you may want to look at moving down to a $10,000 car and currently I owe currently you know what I owe nine thousand on my car oh I thought you said you owe 20,000. Oh no no total including my car. Oh okay that's good okay the car's a keeper then that's okay and what's the other 11,000? That would be credit card debt.

That's caught your slack when you had a when you were surprised that the child support didn't come. Yeah. Yeah. So we're not gonna be surprised anymore. I didn't always come this job. Yeah, that's true. I mean you've been you've been pushing through. I know who you are. I've worked with you for years and I think you're very impressive. I think you're a lot more impressive than you feel. Thank you. I'm proud of you. I mean you raised two kids in San Antonio Texas by yourself with not much help from Goober and not regular help anyway, right?

And he's still playing games a decade later with his own children which makes him a shameful individual. Right? And so, you know, and in spite of all of that, you've continued to get better, get better jobs, move along, and this job's an upgrade from the last one, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, so we're gonna keep doing that. We're gonna keep doing that, and that's, and you're gonna get there.

And when you get there, you're gonna be so strong that nothing will knock you down because you're building strength at every step of this journey that's what I meant I wasn't joking around when I said you're a warrior princess you're in a position you know yeah Jessica I remember many years ago we had financial peace university we used to do the way we would do it is after I would teach live in those days we would have a small group discussion and we'd get in a circle and I remember a single mom in there, younger than you actually, who was cutting hair and she said, you know, I don't think I can make it, I'm burning out, I'm not making enough cutting hair and I'm sitting there trying to figure out what

to tell her and a lady across the circle says, you're gonna be okay. She says, what do you mean? She goes, I was you 20 years ago. I used to cut hair. Now I own the shop. Now I got a half million dollars in the bank. Yeah. In mutual funds. And I'm here to just figure out how to become a millionaire and you're gonna be okay, hon. And she walked her right through it and I was like, dad gun, there's your future sitting across the room from you yeah you just need to see that it's possible exactly Sarah is in Seattle hi Sarah welcome to the Ramsey show hi mr. Andrew thank you so much for having me sure Sure, how can I help?

Okay, so I just started following you and but it was too late I already made a huge mistake yet last year by buying a second home And if you don't mind I can just give you a rundown of like my my financial situation Well, what's what's your question, huh? Okay, so I so I had a condo in Seattle that I live in. Mm-hmm. I paid $2,300 a month for mortgage plus HOA and then last year I speak that because I'm from Florida initially or originally and my parents are older and I have a plan of moving back to Florida And so I got I freaked out because of the housing situation kept going up and I felt like I if I waited I would get Priced out of market. So I went ahead and and bought a second home in Florida

At the top of my budget. Oh gosh and the mortgage for yeah, the mortgage for that is four thousand dollars a month We'll sell it and I it's now I'm in negative equity I I make I might take home pay is eighty six hundred a month yeah but I mean why can't you sell it well because now the price has gone down and I already spent fifty thousand dollars in the past year because I couldn't rent it for whatever reason. Who said the price went down? Yeah, so now it's like maybe. No, who said that? Because the prices in Florida have not gone down.

What are you talking about? No, wait, there's according to Zillow and I talked to a real estate agent. Zillow is not a reliable source on anything. Okay. Okay. When did you buy? How long has it been since you bought it?

I bought it May 1stst 2024. I closed on it Then I tried to put it on the market to rent it but it's been empty for 13 months I just finally got a renter last two weeks on june 1st Um, but they're still negative. So, um, four thousand dollars mortgage a month and they pay 2,700 Do you have any money? I have fifty thousand dollars in savings and then some in 401k. Okay go to RamseySolutions.com and click on real estate ELP. Look for a Ramsey Trusted real estate agent. Have them come out and look at it, get it on the market and get it sold if you have to write a

$10,000 check to write a tent to get rid of your mistake do it You have a problem here that is not going to get better Okay, even even now that I finally after 13 months I was able to rent it and I mean I'm still in the hole But this is a ticking time bomb It's gonna blow up on you okay so you cannot afford this house you cannot afford for it to be empty you cannot afford for the heating and air to go out you cannot afford for the roof to leak you cannot afford to evict the tenant when they don't pay. This thing's going to choke you out girl. It's just a matter

of when. Having a renter doesn't solve the problem because at any point that could leave and then you'd be right back to where you are right here today. Do you see what? I understand but that's the only thing like my fear is that I understand I made a huge mistake but because okay so I spent twenty three thousand in closing costs now I have to spend another I don't care what you spent I don't care what you spent you lost that money because you did something stupid this thing's gonna you're gonna lose more money if you stay in it so you think even if I'm a hundred thousand under you're not a hundred

thousand under okay even though I've been spending four thousand a month for the past year. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about what you can sell it for versus what you owe on it. What do you owe on it? Four hundred twenty eight thousand. Good God. And what do you think you can sell it for? If I'm lucky, I think maybe five thirty. Okay, sell it. You put money in your

pocket. I think you have to just realize Sarah that this is a mistake and mistakes cost you. And in this case there may not be a way to get back the money that's lost. You're doing well if you can break even. You're doing well. We're trying to stop the bleeding. Not reverse the fact that we had a car well. We're trying to stop the bleeding. Not reverse the fact that we had a car wreck. We're just trying to stop the bleeding because you're gonna bleed out. This is not a good thing. Now I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life hun and when I do something stupid and it costs me money I write on the check in the for column as I write the check for my stupidity. I write for

stupid tax Dave did something stupid and he has to pay a tax called stupid tax. You're gonna pay some stupid tax here You're gonna get some of your money back But you're not gonna get all your money back and you're gonna get out of this trap you have set for yourself Nothing in the decision-making process that you used was wise yourself. Nothing in the decision-making process that you used was wise. You panicked over a real estate market, you ran to the other end of the United States and bought a rental property, and then you're shocked that it sat vacant. Yeah. And you overpaid for it probably. So, now, hon, you do what you want to do, but you

called us and we're telling you very clearly what to do. If you don't go do it, it's gonna be your next bad decision. so you just decide what you're gonna do. It's up to you I've done plenty of stupid stuff and I can recognize stupid a mile away, and this was a dumb decision Okay, you're not dumb, but this decision was desperate Unwise and you've got yourself into a bear trap kiddo and you best get away for the bear comes. This is not good Oh, it's all fear based She did the first one out of fear based and now she might not get out of it for fear.

You know, fear that, you know, you're gonna. No, let me tell you, you don't want, when you look down and you walk away and you go, okay, I put $100,000 in my pocket, but I spent 160,000 for that opportunity. And so I got 100 of my 160 back or whatever the number is. And you look down at that sixty thousand dollars worth of stupid. That's what you don't want to do.

Nobody wants to face that. That's called facing the music. And nobody wants to do that. I don't want to look down and go, this is what my stupidity cost me. I don't like looking at that. I want to avoid that if I can. That's human nature. That's not unusual for you, Sarah.

I'm not picking on you, but honey, you know, all you're doing is arguing with me. You call me up and said, I'm in a mess. And I said, yeah, you, but honey, you know, all you're doing is arguing with me You call me up and said I'm in a mess and I said, yeah, you're in a mess Why don't you get out of the mess? She said no, I want to stay in the mess. I don't want to argue with you about it I want you to get out of the mess. That's what we're here for is to help you Harrison is in Indianapolis. Hey Harrison, how can we help? Sure What's up? My question my question to you I've listened to your show for a long time and you talk about doing a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. Exactly. My question is, if it's okay

to deviate from your plan, go for a 30-year mortgage and do extra payments on the principal with the understanding that you always do an extra payment a month to basically level out so you can pay in the same that you would on the 15th. That makes sense to be tracking. Well, it's certainly not illegal, but would we suggest it? No, we would not suggest it, and here's why. We've done research, and 100% of the 15-year mortgages pay off in 15 years or less. Almost none of the people that do your plan pay off in 15 years or less. Almost none of the people that do your plan pay off in 15 years or less. As a matter of fact, the FDIC says from the

Federal Reserve that statistics that 97.5% of mortgages are not systematically prepaid, meaning what doing what you're doing systematically would be monthly adding the amount to the to make it a 15 the equivalent of the 15 when you pay add the amount of a 15 year payment to the 30 year payment it will pay off in 15 years mathematically but no one does it because prom dresses and transmissions right well which is why you want to do that right because you want the flexibility of... Of not paying it. Not paying it. Fair. I mean, my, you know, I would argue my situation

is a little different than... Yeah, you're gonna beat a 97% odd. That's not a wise argument. I'm not gonna set myself up to do that. Yeah. I set myself up to where I have automatic discipline. Yeah, I like that. And by the way, everybody thinks their situation is different. I just want you to do that. I set myself up to where I have automatic discipline. Yeah, I like that. And by the way, everybody thinks

their situation is different. I just want you to know that, Harrison. I know you're not there anymore, but everybody thinks their situation's different. No, it's not. You don't have a situation today that's going to exist 30 years from today, or 15 years from today.

Now, if you are- The rate of change in this culture that we live in, do you understand what happened in the last 15 years? I mean there was no iPhones True that I mean come on. I mean you understand what has happened the rate of change cars used to drive themselves 15 years ago, you know, I mean this is this is crazy. All the world we live in I mean there was no such thing as a podcast YouTube was only cats chasing lasers. That was it. And now

it's the primary broadcast medium in the world. I mean, come on, Netflix was sent DVDs to your mailbox 15 years ago. Blockbusters was still open 15 years ago. You cannot anticipate 15 years from now, much less 30 years from now. faith 15 years from now much less 30 years from now amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey your host Jade Wachow Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today Anna is in San Francisco hi Anna how are you I'm good Dave happy to talk to you no I'm not happy but glad to talk to you well you too how can we help today?

So I have a question. I am in a very complicated position right now. Um, thinking about filing chapter 13 bankruptcy, um, or take a second loan towards my house. Um, it's a long story, but I'm going to try to make it short. And I apologize if I say anything in English incorrect. It's my second language. So I'm married, have kids. We had the whole debt situation. I found you in 2022. We got into doing the plan together by May of 2024. We bet free paid off like 80 K, um, just own the house. Um, it was wonderful.

So my husband started talking to friends about bank, um, cryptocurrency and, um, he started invested, stopped small, start make money. He, um, he, you know, made a big move behind my back. You know, he took a big loan of $200,000 and he invested that money in crypto XRP, Trump coins and all that stuff. He told me after he did it, I panicked.

I was in totally panic when he told me that. And that was March of this year. And I thought things couldn't get worse. And he did. He got a phone call. He was expecting a phone call from the company he was making the whole Bitcoin thing. The name of the company was Pionex. He was doing crypto with this company and he had over 200,000.

He also had $50,000 on his mom that he was in that since I was like 25 250,000 total. How did he find Pion X? How did he find them online? His friends. I he talked to his friend. I don't know for sure if it was online. He was he's a so you got he got scammed Is that what you're gonna tell me? Yeah He lost his mother's fifty thousand dollars. He's lost everything and we don't even own the two hundred dollars that he lost

Yeah, and we can't pay those $200,000. So where did you bury him? Gosh, he's still digging my backyard. Yeah. In his mother's backyard, probably. Yes, that would be a better call. Oh my God, so what is your household income? About 10K a month.

Okay, and what do you owe on your personal residence? A $400,000. Okay and what do you own your personal residence? 400,000. And what is it worth? It's like 700. Yeah and what does your husband make a year? He brings home about 10,000 a month. And has he owned this that he was unbelievably deceitful, lying behind your back? Yeah, that was a big lie. And never going to do it again because he's stupid? Yeah, we thought about that. He called me stupid and said that he didn't understand the only thing stupid you did marry him. Wow. he told me he was gonna be millionaire and he's gonna make our family millionaire and that I didn't have to worry about it. Instead you're calling somebody about filing bankruptcy so has he

owned this so that it doesn't happen again? He did this. The only reason why I didn't walk away yet is because he told me crying, he begged me to stay, and he told me that God took this money away. No, God did not do this. You don't blame God. Don't blame God when you're stupid. I know. I know. But just the way he's thinking, like, God took the money away. No, that's not a good way of thinking. He needs to own it. I'll tell you what took the money away. He took the money away because he was stupid. He needs to own that or he's going to do it again. If you blame it on God, then what are you going to blame it on next time? The devil?

It's manipulative. Right. Yeah. He said that and he told me he was like a punishment for going behind my back. So I was like, if you really think that's a punishment for going behind my back. How about just being an adult from this point forward? Yeah. That'd be just fine. We don't need a punishment. We need a grown-up husband. He made two mistakes. He took out a loan and then he did it behind your back. You've already paid off $80,000 when both of your brains were working at the same time. You know how to do this, and so now you pay off $200,000. How did he borrow 200 grand? What did he put up as collateral?

We had, well, we had made the plan. We were doing good. We had good credit, I guess. You know, the house, he has equity in the house. Did he borrow against the house? No, he didn't. He just loaned it like 23 here, 23 there, 147 there, different location. And he ended up with like one 93. It wasn't, you know,

close to 200. So these are like credit cards and personal loans. Yes. Yes. Uh, the entrance is super high, it's like 23%. Interest is not your problem problem stupidity is your problem I know but the payments like five grand are not you've already paid off eighty thousand dollars and you did that in eighteen months so you know how to do this can you are you I hate to ask you to do this but are you working at all I'm not right now I'm waiting for my

kids I'm already making application and my kids gonna go back to school I will as soon as they get back to school. I was working and helping that's how we get out of this Yeah, we're gonna do it again. No, but then right now with the five thousand payments Bankrupt I'm not bankrupt. No, you're not bankrupt. You make enough money to clean this up and you can either pay it out you can put a second mortgage on your house I really don't want you to and then pay it off there because but you're you're keying off on how big the payments are you need to be paying five thousand dollars a month. It's gonna be painful and the hard you need to be

paying six thousand dollars a month that's how you're gonna get out of this six thousand dollars a month seventy two thousand how you're gonna get out of this. $6,000 a month, $72,000 a year. The hardest part of this entire journey, it's gonna be hard to pay off the debt, but every payment you're gonna have to work on how you feel towards your husband and what that means for you guys because with every payment the resentment has the ability to grow more and more and each time you go to your job that you feel you shouldn't be working right now, that resentment has an opportunity to grow. So you guys have to get into some sort of therapy, something to work through this because things still aren't right. I can tell. Oh yeah. Well, they shouldn't be. Yeah. Shouldn't be. Oh my gosh. We've got massive stupidity

and we blamed it on God. And it's unbelievable. I mean, God's looking at you going, not my deal. I didn't do this. Only thing I did is make you, that's the only thing I did. How come every time you're on the air, I get these crypto cash? I don't know, I was thinking the same thing. This is a problem. It's a pattern here.

It's a problem. Like George and horses and crypto and jade. I guess so. I don't know man. This is the Ramsey Show. Buying or selling your home is a big deal and between clickbait headlines and confusing data it's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. Right now the average house price, the median house price in America is $431,000. That means half of them are more expensive in America and half are less expensive. That's what median means as a statistical measure. Nearly a million homes on the market right now. That's the largest inventory of for sale homes we've had since 2019.

Six years. A lot of houses on the market. House prices are not going down. They've been continuing to go up. Interest rates have gone down. They're a little under 6.5.9 percent for a 15-year fixed right now. So if you want to know about housing trends and you're trying to get yourself situated to get your home bought, that's a good idea. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show nuts and we'll help you. The whole thing is free. Claudia is in Chicago. Hey Claudia, how are you?

Hi, how are you? I'm good. Good. How can I help? I'm, I was just calling in to see if it would be more reasonable for me to get eloped with my fiance in the coming year or to have a wedding. I'd love to have a wedding. No one in my family has had one and between my sister-in-law and my sister, they regret

it. They all eloped. It was more feasible and financially the saddest thing to do. But I'd love to have a wedding and a very small one intimate about 50 to 100 people on my parents' property. What would it cost? I'm estimating less than 15,000 for me and my fiance. Our cost, I know that both of our parents would definitely want to pitch in and help.

Okay. Do you have the money? So, I'm so terrified of going into debt. So, I am 23 years old. I paid for my college myself after graduating. I started making about $70,000 a year now and that's $75,000. But I am applying to medical schools this cycle. So, that income is going to go away and that's what scares me because I now be taking on loans in the

future. And my fiance he makes about the same as me so about seventy two right now. So do you have any money saved? I have thirty thousand dollars right now of my own a high-fake high-heeled yes I would spend fifteen thousand dollars on a wedding yes yes I would yes absolutely absolutely would do that yeah and here's why it's a small percentage of your world and it is in terms of your mathematically it's a small percentage of what you make what you have what you've done what you've already accomplished at 23 it's a very reasonable and the average wedding in America is approaching 30,000 right now yeah okay just to tell you the averages doesn't mean you have spend that but that's the averages here so you're half of average so you're being

reasonable you're being very calm and oh by the way you're paying cash yes yes yeah okay so I'd 100% would do that now I will can I give you a recommendation absolutely the project that has the most scope creep other than building a home is a wedding yes you start out with 15 and you look up and it's 45. That is true. Because you get nickel and dimed and you get with the people on the reception and we get the nicer mushroom caps and whatever, right? And you know the old wedding movie with Steve Martin, The Cheaper Chicken, The Cheaper Chicken,

right? Right. And so that whole thing. So what you need to do is if 15,000 is your budget, you need to write that at the top of the page and you need to say, okay, how do we build a wedding for 15,000? That means the videographer can get no more than X, the dress will cost Y, the reception food is gonna be Z,

and you get a total number of dollars down the page by category that totals up to no more than 15. And then when you meet with a caterer and they say oh well we could do now I'm sorry this is what I can do yeah yeah and you go look at the dress there's always a dress that's more expensive there's always a videographer that wants to shoot a Hollywood movie okay there's always and instead I got my friend with a still camera walking around and you're gonna be okay and you know we're gonna pick flowers and mama's front yard on the farm and whatever I don't know but you just decide where you're gonna spend this money ahead of

time otherwise you'll look up and it'll be 20 at least yeah I've already started like a little spreadsheet I bought my dress I love it I'm not picky as long as I'm in white I could walk down in like a trash bag and he'd say I do. We knew he was going to say I do cause this is a smart guy. Okay. That's not the question. We don't need trash bags. The point is, the point is your spreadsheet is the exact thing you need to do. And this is how you got through school without debt. You had a plan. This is how you do a $15,000 wedding, not an 18 or 28 or 48,000 dollar wedding. You do it with a plan.

It's a project. It has line items down the spreadsheet and then you stick to that budget. Or if you spend less on one item, it gives you more to spend on some of the other items. But either way, we've got a budget, a project budget here that we're running. And when you run a wedding that way it doesn't take the romance out of it, it does take all of the opinions of friends, relatives, and mothers out of it. That's the good part when you pay for it on your own, nobody else gets a vote. Well she said maybe mom and dad were gonna chip in some, but that doesn't mean they get a vote, they just get the chip in. And so, you know, all three of the weddings

that the Ramses did, that's exactly how we did them. They all three spent, I think, well, yeah, I think they all three spent it all. Oh wow, that's good. I gave them a budget, I gave them an amount, I said, you do it, and we're gonna put it in a separate account, the wedding account, and you gotta stick to that,

and I wanna see the spreadsheet, and I wanna see you sticking to it, but other than that, I'm not gonna tell you what to spend it on but don't come in here afterwards and go we're five thousand dollars over and I don't want to hear this crap so you know that you guys just be like grown-ups and stuff you're not in Congress and so you can't just make this crap up as you go and and that lady right there she she's going to be incredible. I mean, 23 got through school debt free.

Yeah, but she said she plans on taking debt to go into college, to go to medical school. That's true. That's a mistake. That is a mistake. I would work around that. But the rest of this call was excellent. It was excellent. Very, very well done.

All right. Christian is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Christian question how are you i'm good day thanks for taking my call sure what's up so uh... i have a question for uh... i guess you and other maybe people with me now you know they started their own business

there you know doing doing well but um... how how do you manage debt and to get out of debt when you're running your own business and maybe the paychecks aren't as consistent and sporadic? It's not the lack of consistency that matters, it's the size of the check that matters. If they're inconsistent and small, you've got two problems. If you get $300,000 every four or five months you probably make it out okay. Right and I started my business two years ago I built furniture and custom cabinets and I've been

maintaining. What's your net profit last year? About... No what you pay taxes on? It shouldn't be an about. You should have filed your taxes. What'd you pay taxes on last year? I think it was like right at like sixty two thousand. Okay all right and what do you think you're gonna do this year? That's profit? Yes. Okay that's what you pay taxes on your income. All right. Yep. And this year I'm aiming to shoot for a hundred right now. I'm about 40. What causes it to be sporadic? Is it a seasonal thing? Well, you know, obviously doing cabinets is a very streamlined production, but sometimes I do custom furniture and it can,

it's like reinventing the wheel for every project. So sometimes I do custom furniture and it can, it's like reinventing the wheel for every project. So sometimes I say, oh, it's going to take no month and it takes two months. Is there a way that you can kind of set your pay on the lower end of the spectrum and learn to live off of that? And then the times where you're able to take more, it's just kind of a gravy? That's what I would do. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've yeah yeah I've done that and if your production line is running twice as long as you thought it was gonna run you

don't have a money problem you got a business model problem you're not estimating your jobs correctly so you'll get better at that you'll get you'll get better at that as you go along but you know it, it's easy to live on $60,000 a year, whether it's irregular or not in Raleigh, North Carolina. It can be done. And so that's what you've got to lay out is just lay out a game plan to do that. And then watch your cash flows and watch your estimating and your production times. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Dustin and Tara are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

Great, how are you? Welcome. Where do you guys live? Palm Bay, Florida. Just south of Cocoa Beach. Okay, very cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off?

$287,766. Wow. And how much debt have you paid off? 287,766. Wow. And how long did that take? Seven years. Oh. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? It started at 100,000. I changed roles at work, went down to 70,000. And last year had an amazing year at 500,000.

Wow. That's significant. Sweet. Sweet income. So what do you guys do? I'm a stay-at-home mom. And I'm in power generation sales. Oh okay. All right. So I just took off huh? Yes last year was a really good year. Phenomenal. So was this your house? It was. Yay! Look at the weird people. House and everything baby. What's this house worth? $250,000. Well, that's what we started out in 2019.

It's around $450,000 worth now. Oh, okay. Yeah, wow. Very good. And how much in your nest egg these days in your retirement? Probably around $350,000. Okay, so you're bumping up close to a million dollar net worth. Getting close. Yeah, way to go man. Baby steps millionaires, paid Okay, so you're bumping up close to a million dollar net worth? Getting close.

Yeah, way to go man. Baby steps millionaire, paid off house, and you're young. How old are you? I'm going to be 44. And I'm 39. Excellent. Congratulations. Wow.

So what happened seven years ago? Tell us about this Ramsey Journey thing you've been on. Well I took a different job and I was running a truck up and down the road a lot with the company and I was on, I mean, as much work as they could give me, I was taking it. And I was listening to a lot of talk radio and heard this crazy guy on the radio. And the more and more I listened, the more and more I heard other people do debt-free screams and talk about this weird thing of not having debt, I really piqued my interest. Yeah.

So, 288, was that all the house or was some of it other stuff? Some of it was a little consumer debt she brought on when we got married, it was a lovely marriage gift. But, and then two small car loans. Okay. So you knocked those out pretty quick and then tore into the house.

Tore into the house. Love it. Very cool. So what'd you say to get Tara on board with this guy that you heard on the radio? You know, we actually used FPU at our local church as almost like a pre-marriage thing, but she was on board and I think that was really our path to success was, you know, she was gung ho, she was willing to do every dollar and do everything else and just stay on a budget and work through to seeing that, you know, what our goal and and end was was to be debt-free. Okay so you'd already heard of

FPU through the church. Yeah I heard it on the radio show and then we weren't attending that church at that time but that was the closest facility to it so we started you know I kind of brought up Dave Ramsey and you know we wanted to see what it was about and took FPU and I mean that was a great course to have. So Tara you went into financial peace because this truck driver talked you into it. Yeah, basically. When you were in there, what did you see that made you decide where this is okay? Well, I mean there were other couples in there that shared their story and they seemed happy. Sorry. It's okay. I'm gonna shoot. It's okay. They seemed

happy and successful and it seemed manageable. The whole death snowball thing starting off small, building momentum. Yeah, yeah. How's it feel to have no house payment guys. Crazy. It's great, I have anxiety and you know, always kind of felt like I had to stick with a certain job or do a certain thing because there's this big house payment looming and we never want to move or be out on the streets or just have to deal with that. So not having the house payment is just such a relief knowing if we want to stay, we can stay.

Yeah, you own it. That's great. God is great. Payment is just such a relief knowing if we want to stay we can stay. Yeah You own it. Yes. God is great It is that's amazing. What was the hardest part? He worked a ton. I mean day night just constantly working Really, you know pushing. Yeah, there was a lot of hours put into it You know, like I said earlier if it wasn't for her being on board with it, it would have been a lot harder than it was, but you know, with me working,

sometimes I've had to work third shift or 16 hours or whatever it was, she kind of again, saw the goal and just, you know, it wasn't, there was no complaining. She knew what we were doing or why I was doing it and what we were trying to achieve. Was it worth it? Oh yes. Yes.

Yes. And I mean, the Every Dollar app helps me constantly to this day, I love it. Good, good. I tell everybody about it. Well, you know, thank you, I appreciate that. But you know where you are. And you know, you're in control

and it's a sustainable situation and stinking house is paid for. Y'all are heroes man way to go and you've changed these little kids family tree well done so how old are the kiddos bring them up and let's introduce them what are their names and ages? We have Ellie who's nine and Daniel is seven. All right very good good-looking guys very cool stuff so what's the first big thing you're gonna do now that you're almost millionaires and you got a paid-for house? Well we used this trip to come up here. We drove up and we stopped she was all you wanted to see the

Biltmore. So we stopped at Biltmore and then spent the last couple days in the Smokies. The kids got to go to Dollywood. So this was kind of our little family celebration making our way over here. Yeah, Dollywood's a hidden gem. It's excellent. We're right outside of Orlando and that is the most amazing theme park we've been to. Yeah, very cool. Good for you guys, very well done. Proud of you.

Who was cheering you along along the way? You know, I had some coworkers that, you know, that were inspirational to me or actually owned a company I used to work for and it was great you know being able to talk to them as being successful people they were definitely Ramsey fans they were pushing they understood it was it was great you know so they they definitely were inspirational for me. Yeah, wow that's good. Very cool stuff guys we're proud of

you. Very well done. Alright, it's Dustin and Tara, Daniel and Ellie, Cocoa Beach, California area, 288,000 paid off. House and everything! We're looking at some 40-year-old-esque almost millionaires. We'll be very, very soon. And look at these beautiful children. Their whole lives are changed, their family tree has been changed because dad paid a price and mom made it work where dad could pay a price. This is a team effort right here.

Very well done, proud of you guys, you're heroes, man. Excellent, count it down, guys. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free scream! Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Wow! What a bump.

100,000 to 500,000 in seven years. He kicked it. Sheesh. So here's the thing. What's interesting in God's economy, it's just I'm positive that right now on SiriusXM or on podcast or maybe even YouTube, there's a truck driver out there. Yes. That's not married, doesn't have two beautiful children, and is listening to this former truck driver now in sales with two beautiful children and a beautiful wife and a paid-for house and almost a millionaire seven years later.

That's called hope. These people standing here, they personify hope. And that just got transferred to you out there. And I don't know who you are that you're driving right now, but I'm positive out of 40 million people that listening to this particular broadcast that at least one of you is driving a truck right this second. It might have less than $287,000 of debt. Yeah, it might have. So the thing is, and here's the trick, Daniel and Ellie can look back at this video several years from now and go, well that's when it happened, that's when the old man

and the old lady did it, that's when everything turned to corner, because they just left Biltmore. Right. Which is the Vanderbilts. Yeah. Okay, so somebody's gotta be old man Vanderbilt, somebody's gotta start it, right? And you're looking at them, they just started it.

That's how it starts, right there. That's exactly how it starts. Somebody's gotta be start it, right? And you're looking at them, they just started it. That's how it starts, right there. It's exactly how it starts. Somebody's got to be old man Rockefeller. Somebody's got to start it. Those things, they weren't born, now there's a couple generations after we're born with the money, but the original Commodore, ain't no no money.

That's, you know, that's, and that's where Biltmore comes from. And where Vanderbilt University comes from. It's where the Rockefellers, you know, I mean somebody's got to start it. Why not you? This is the best place in the history of humanity. It's called the United States of America for the little man to get ahead and become the next guy who's not, the next gal who's not the little man. But it's your decision.

Hey, we put some stuff together to help you, because if you're trying to explain this Ramsey thing to a family member who doesn't understand, or a friend that doesn't understand, it's hard to get it all out. They can't get it all in their brain. So what we did is we put together the Ramsey 101 playlist. It's free and it's easy to share and it covers the basics for somebody who's just trying to figure this Ramsey thing out.

Stuff like the baby steps, the debt snowball, the emergency fund, working together with your spouse, all that kind of stuff. All these clips are on there and here's how you can share it. Click the link at the top of the show notes to open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. Text it, DM it, send it in a group chat, just say, hey this is something that's helping me I thought you might enjoy. If you're listening on the radio we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. So jump in on the YouTube channel and you can see the Ramsey 101 playlist. Think of at least one person in your life and share it with them. It's all completely free. It's just kind of a, I don't know, a compilation of best-ofs almost. Not best

of, not most entertaining or weirdest calls, but the ones that actually give you the information to show you what to do, okay? And I think it'll be helpful to you. That's what our hope is. That's why we put it together. Robert's with us in Virginia. Hi, Robert. How are you? Okay, Dave. Thanks for asking. Sure. How can we help? Well, I've got a question about Chapter 13.

I know that I've been listening to the show for a few months now, and I know that you say that bankruptcy is like a divorce, kind of a last ditch option. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. I don't know anything about divorce because I've never been married. But my home is, my second mortgage is currently in foreclosure. The sale date has been set.

I got about five and a half, six weeks left before the sale date. I've been here once before, about seven years back when I had a business go under. Why are you behind on your second mortgage? Well I got hit by a tree last year. I climb and cut trees for a living. Oh gosh. I'm about to turn 65 here in about two months and last year in March I got hit by about a 3,000 pound trunk. It's not the first time I've been injured on the job but this one took me out for about two months and I

fell behind on the primary and I kind of let the secondary go trying to catch up the primary. Just as soon as I got back to work, I drive like a 31-year-old Ford pickup and that broke down and it took about five weeks to get it back on the road. So I fell further behind. I won't go into all the, you know, the sad songs, but basically, uh, uh, I got permanent nerve damage up and down the right side of my body, but you know, everything else healed. Um, so are you back to work? Yeah, I am back to work.

Although my truck, you know, my truck just broke down again last week. I was trying to... You don't have an option of missing any more work. How much do you owe on the first mortgage? About a hundred and eighty. What do you owe on the second mortgage? Well, they say fifty five, which is weird because I only borrowed fifty two and

I've been paying on this house for almost 20 years and I added up what I paid to them. It's close to 90K that I've given them. What's your interest rate on the second? Well now it's low. It's like 375 and my primary is 30. But originally when I bought this house. When you were working before the accident did you make enough to pay both these mortgages? Yeah usually but since

I got over 60 I started slowing down and during the winters I've been having a hard time. What's the house worth? That's the thing it's it's really worth about what I owe on it. About $235,000? Yeah $240,000 maybe but they've got it hyperinflated on Zillow and stuff you know they got it like $370,000 it's got some land and stuff but the house hasn't had any updates in almost 20 years. Zillow's not relevant, you know, but I also think it might be worth more than you think it is.

The reason I think that is I don't think the second mortgage would have bothered to foreclose if it was only worth $2.35. They believe it's worth more. That's because the county had some new taxes. No, for a second mortgage just don't go off of county assessments. They go off actual value because when they take the thing back county assessment doesn't matter they got to run sell it and get their 55 grand out of it. How far behind are you? Well in the second one I only owe them like $2,000 but they've added about two grand in

lawyers fees. That's typical that's a normal that's standard that's not. And I'm two months behind on the primary right now my thing was I was going to try to make enough money I like I said I was here once before in 2018 and that's when I stopped doing what I was doing that was losing me money and I borrowed a chainsaw from a buddy and I got out my old climbing, uh, harnessing the ropes was about 30 years old cause I hadn't climbed and cut in 30 years. And I started doing trees again and I made about $11,000 in five weeks and I was able to reinstate the mortgage. Um,

now that's about what you're gonna have to do this time, but the problem is after you do that, I'm not sure you're making enough to keep it. Well the thing is, I don't think I can make enough this time because the problem is Dave, since the accident I haven't been able to work as much. Can you do something else? Well that's what I was planning. I took some courses last year and I got a certification in another field that should be able to get me a job. It's not going to be super high paying at first though. It takes time to build up an income in that field. What field is it?

I don't really want to exactly say. It's kind of not exactly healthcare related, but it's kind of along that line. I think you need to get into something that's steady and predictable soon. I agree with that and I was planning on, like I said, I was actually going to go and interview last week and then my truck broke down so now I'm, when you, you know, I actually was outside earlier trying to get the truck running again. The reason I'm asking you all these questions is that chapter 13 is probably not going to work for you. It will stop the foreclosure temporarily,

but as soon as it does you will have to start making payments on the first, on the second, and on the arrearage on both. And all is built into the system. They get 100% of their money, the $2,000 lawyer fees, all the back payments, all the late fees, they get 100% of their money, including current payments. And you're having trouble even paying current payments. And so I don't think the child, and so if you go into a chapter 13 and you don't make the monthly payments that

include the current payments plus payments on the back stuff, that's a lot for you. If you don't make those, they're going, they're going to kick you out of bankruptcy and you're going to be in foreclosure again. I understand that Dave, but there's, it's like, if I, if I lose the house, I've been fighting to keep this house for almost 20 years. If I lose it, I'll be 65 and homeless and penniless. I don't want you to be that, but my point is Chapter 13 doesn't solve your problem.

It doesn't keep you from losing it. What keeps you from losing it is an income. Well, that's why I'm trying to get into this new line of work. It didn't sound too promising to me. It's underpaid is what it sounded like. It starts off slow. And I was also thinking maybe I would apply for social security early and add that to it. And yeah, I think that's a good idea. And I think you go down to Target and you start working 40 hours down there. $20 an hour.

Yeah, I mean, they don't pay that. Yeah, they do. They pay $20 an hour all over the nation. So does Walmart. Okay, well I've been down to Walmart and I've been looking at all the jobs. Everything here is $15 an hour. You know, you can get $17 at some places. Yeah, there you go. All right. I mean, that's, you know, what you got right now is almost nothing. You need $2,000 right now to get the, or $4,000 to get this thing stopped. And then you need to get the first mortgage current. And you need to get those things, and you need to run around like your hair's on fire and get those two things done. And then you need to keep the house current. That's going to be a less strenuous plan to keep this house

than the Chapter 13 will be. And I'm telling you, the Chapter 13 sounds like it's magical, it's not. It's going to put more strain on you the way it's structured. Because you have to pay 100% of the payments plus payments on all this back payments. And you can't do that with a situation you just described to me and you're going to get booted back out and then they're going to be coming down your throat and foreclosure again so you have got to solve the income problem and the best way to do it is now. It's your only option that or sell the house and I like the other option better. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey Show where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washell, number one bestselling author. Ramsey's personality is my co-host today. Lucy is with us in San Antonio. Hi Lucy, how are you? Hi, I'm good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Well, my question is how do I move forward from the shame and regret from losing my hundred and thirty six thousand dollar law-fire array? How did you lose it? Um, I met a Christian woman at a Christian women's conference and, um, she, um, started talking to me. She was on stage. She was one of the speakers.

And, um, and so she started talking to me and she just followed up with me and you know, people were asking her why she does what she does. She started crying and saying that she just wants to help people. And so she set up an appointment, followed up with me and told me about her real estate investment opportunity, which basically to my understanding they buy apartment complexes, flip them. And, uh, she promised, uh, basically guaranteed double my money in five years. And if you do exactly what I tell you, you'll be a millionaire in, you know,

maybe 10 years, which I was already on track to be a millionaire in 10 years. I don't know why I didn't think about that. So I fully trusted her. Lucy, how old are you? Now I'm 47 and at the time when I met her I was 44. How much money do you, you lost a hundred and thirty thousand, how much money do you have left? So my husband and I, we got married two years ago and with our combined finances now, we had, I had two rental properties. He had his house, I had mine. So we sold all the houses and with my teacher retirement and everything, we now have 640,000 invested with a Dave Ramsey approved financial planner.

And we have $50,000 in an emergency fund. So how can we help today? She said how do I get over the shame? I don't trust my judgment anymore. I don't know how to move forward from this. I don't know how to stop looking back with the shame and regret. I just don't know what to do.

When you get your home, when someone burglarizes your home shame and regret. I just don't know what to do. We're kind of at a crossroads. When someone burglarizes your home and they come in, you come home and the drawers are all open and they've been through everything and they stole your jewelry. It's trauma. Yes. And this is trauma. Yeah.

You're still describing this woman as Christian and obviously she's not. She's obviously a con artist and even the place where she was speaking is questionable because they let her on stage. Exactly. So there's nothing Christian about this. You thought it was at the time but it wasn't. Okay so yes and so when I went bankrupt and we lost everything because I was stupid, we lost a hundred percent of everything. You lost 130, you still got 600. Okay, but when I lost a hundred percent of everything, I had to

decide, okay, what is the definition of Dave? What's Dave's identity? Am I a bankrupt idiot? Or am I a guy who chose to believe some lies called borrow all you want on real estate? Nothing down real estate, let's buy all the real estate we can buy. And it bit me in the butt because the whole concept I believed was a lie

So I'm not stupid, but I did some stupid things. I've also done a bunch of smart things Okay, and so I have to decide the windshield is larger than the rear-view mirror and that's called grace Okay, so 32 34 years ago whatever didn't know God it's 36 years ago now 1988 I filed bankruptcy but that's not my defining moment it's just the bottom of that valley that we went through because of my stupid choices wasn't Sharon's's fault, wasn't the bank's fault, I signed up for it. The banks did some things wrong, Sharon did some things wrong,

but 99% of the reason we lost all that money was me. So then I just gotta decide, okay, am I gonna walk in grace towards myself and other people who have made mistakes and I can I can still call stupid stupid but I don't have to call me stupid okay you did a you got count conned okay for various reasons I would want to look into my soul and ask what I felt why would I fall for this was it was I scared was I greedy why did I fall for a con because you got conned and yeah you've in this story you told me you've done 26 things that were smart and one thing

that was dumb mm-hmm you hear me yeah yeah yeah pretty good ratio yeah when you put it like that. Yeah. You know, I mean, you're sitting on, you're going to be a millionaire. You're only in your forties. I mean, you, you made, you've done one really stupid thing. 26 really smart things. Yeah. And I bet you you won't fall for anything like that ever again. Never again. And now I can smell it a mile away.

I can, I look at people online now and I don't wonder what the secret sauce is anymore. I know it's all a facade. I know it's a lie. There you go. There you go. Yeah. But now we're trying to decide whether to buy a house

or not or wait. And I'm scared to make another decision and I'm just kind of frozen. I think it'd be normal if you had a car wreck you're scared to drive. Yeah. But it doesn't mean we don't drive. Yeah. Walking's hard. So yeah get back on the horse kiddo. Okay. You're smarter you're smarter than this one decision. I'm smarter than the 26 decisions that caused me to go bankrupt. I'm smarter than that. And I learned from it. I've never done it again, quite the opposite. And I've become a multi-billionaire since then and helped a whole lot of people become millionaires, tens of millions of them since then. Teaching

us the lessons I learned from that. And you just help some people tell on this story so they don't get conned. Quit looking for something for nothing. There's no shortcut to any place that's worth going. The best way to get rich quick is don't. Yeah, exactly. These are the lessons you've learned. Yeah, definitely. So now we've been looking at all of our housing options. We've moved into this tiny RV and we're just saving money and I'm planning to start a business.

I have 6,000 set aside to start a business because I really was ready to change careers. And so now, you know, there's the rough houses around here that are about $170,000. They probably need a good $50,000, $60,000 of work. And then there's everything in between all the way to the new houses that are $320,000. And we're going to be here for the next 20 years. No, you're not. You might be. You don't know that. You don't know what that

you didn't know 20 years ago you was gonna be sitting here. So we don't know that for sure. But get your house. I don't care. I trust your judgment more than you do. I think you and your husband need to get out of an RV. I can tell you that. That's not gonna last. I'll be there about 20 minutes. Get something else. Some people are RV people. I am not. I'm not. be there about 20 minutes getting something else. Some people are RV people. I am not. I'm not.

Not a cat person, not an RV person. Today's Ramsey Show, Question of the Day sponsored by WyeRefi. When you're tired of making no progress on your defaulted private student loans, YREFI can help you explore a fresh start with a low fix rate refinancing. It's time to stop spinning your wheels. Let YREFI help you.

Go to yrefi.com, slash, Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E- yrefi.com. Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Jared in Nevada. He says, my wife and I have been married 50 years. We've both worked over the years, but I always did a little side work to make a little extra cash that I gambled with.

We both retired last year. We have a $900,000 house that's paid for. We make about $10,500 a month in retirement and social security and have about $450,000 in IRAs. No credit card or car payments. We are both doing okay, but I really miss the gambling. But at 70, I don't want to have to work to gamble and I don't want to touch any of our savings that we live on. Should I just give up gambling or do you have any ideas that will work? Well, I wish I knew how much you were spending on gambling.

That would give a little bit more insight to this question. I always view gambling in the context of I'm going to Las Vegas and I'm going to gamble X amount of dollars that I budget for ahead of time. And so for that purpose, I view it as a line item for entertainment, that's kind of how I view it. But at the same time, Dave, I put a very small percentage of money towards that. If you're talking about high thousands,

I don't think that you have obviously the margin to do something like that. If you're talking about, you know, a hundred bucks on something, I wish I knew exactly because a lot of people have gambling problems. So I don't know how much you're saying. If you can't handle it in your $10,000, $500 a month budget, then it's too much and you can't do it. That's what I would say.

Well, he doesn't want to put it in there. That's what I'm saying. You say he doesn't want to put it in there. That's what I'm saying. You say he couldn't handle it. You say he doesn't want to. Yeah, but I think that if he's thinking it's enough that he would have to dip into savings, that's too much. Yeah, I agree with that.

So if it can't fit into your monthly budget as a line item of fun or entertainment, then it's too much. So let that be your guide is what I'd say. Yeah, I have trouble commenting intelligently on it because I get zero pleasure from that, so I don't do it. It's just not fun to me. I work so hard and it's not fun to me

to give my money to somebody else. And that's not entertaining to me, it's quite the opposite, it's stress inducing. So I just don't do it. I've never been a gambler. I don't, my wife put a quarter in a slot machine one time on a cruise when we were in our twenties and she hit, we got $250 worth of quarters

and that's probably cost me 10 grand over the years cause she's still looking for that hit again. But, that one time. Yeah, that one time. She could put that 250 back and then, you know, she's always gonna put some money back. You know? But um. That one time. Yeah, that one time. She keep put that 250 back and then you know, she's always gonna put some more back. You know, there's art to this.

She's not a gambler. But she's like, she's a little bit like Rachel in that regard. So, but um, no, you don't want to have a gambling problem for sure. And I kind of question, you know, I, I get it, but I don't understand, you know, that you and, I don't even understand when you and Rachel call it

entertainment. It's not to me because I just, I just don't understand, you know, that you and I don't even understand when you and Rachel call it entertainment It's not to me because I just don't understand it So anyway having said that it should be a small line item in your monthly budget maximum and If you can't get over it with that you got other issues. Yeah, that's what I'd say I mean, how much can you I mean don't get me wrong some people put a couple you know you're making ten thousand dollars a month, they put a couple hundred bucks a month in there for gambling and instead of you know whatever else it is people do for entertainment for a couple hundred bucks a month that make ten thousand dollars a month

and are seventy years old and worth a million and a half dollars you know so you can afford to spend two hundred dollars a month on some kind of entertainment if this is what your choice is that's fine but no you don't need to be dropping five grand a month in this I do feel like I mean this is being judgmental because again everybody's there I just feel like gambling that often probably isn't good for you once a month I'm curious why it's entertaining I mean they you know why is it I enjoy this what is it what is it you get but people do they enjoy it's a rush the risk It causes I like sitting at the table. You have a drink

You're talking to the guy next to you like you're playing blackjack It's just a table and have a drink and talk to the guy next to me and not lose money Table, but I don't have to lose money to do that. So Because you never get up from those tables wealthier than you sat down So because you never get up from those tables wealthier than you sat down. And so it's just not, you got to know when to hold them and when to fold them. That is for sure. I folded them 38 years ago. So Alexis is with us in Las Vegas.

Speaking of Vegas. Hey, Alexis, how are you? I'm doing good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'm doing good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm pretty new to all of your wisdom. I started seeing some videos pop up on my Facebook, kind of dove right in, finished reading a total money makeover, borrowed it from the library, finished it in a few days and my husband's reading it currently and he's getting excited about it too. Good.

We would be on maybe step number two because we have a little bit in our savings account from our tax return that we haven't put to anything yet. But the problem or the question I have is I am ready to like feel some pain, you know, until, until the debt goes away. But my dilemma is that next year is my 10 year high school reunion. I know that might not matter to some people but I have been looking forward to it. And my home state is kind of expensive to get back to. What is it? And so what is the state? Yeah. And my home state is kind of expensive to get back to. What is it?

And so what is the state? Yeah. Hawaii. Okay. Yeah. And so I guess my question is, is this like, is this something that is just off the table? I just need to sacrifice it? Or is it something that if we, since it's a year away, if it's something that is just off the table, I just need to sacrifice it, or is it something that

if we, since it's a year away, if it's something that we were to include in our budget is still reasonable? Like, I would say that kind of… So, are you going to be out of debt by then? No. Okay. How much debt do you have? I mean, I don't think so. So I've got, or we, not I, but me and my husband combined have about 11,000 in like two credit

cards and a line of credit. And then the bulk of my debt is student loans, which is 96 for a useless degree. What is the degree? Just curious. Theater. What's your household income? So right now my husband works hourly and he's getting 22 an hour plus over time. And then I, I'm a stay at home mom,

but I do have like a kind of a creative side hustle that I can, I've been bringing some money in that previously was fun money but now I'm like no I can just hustle and make it if you took Dave Ramsey and the total money makeover and all the stuff you've been learning out of the picture you can't afford to go to Hawaii okay makes $22 yeah Y'all got no money. Yeah. I'm not sure how you can budget Hawaiian plane tickets from Vegas, much less staying over there for two people out of a $22 an hour budget. Yeah. We would stay with family there. So we wouldn't have to pay for a hotel or an airline ticket. Run a plane fare. Um, probably about 600 tickets. So another thing that I was considering is,

is it something that if I went just by myself and I can stay long, like would that be something budgetable or would that still be off the table? A lot of costs while there would be cut down due to staying with family, but the plane tickets is the best. You're gonna have to drop 1200 bucks and 1200 bucks in your old world is a lot of money. Yeah. So some things are going to have to change during this calendar year for this to be logical for you all to do, regardless of how plugged in or fired up you are about the Ramsey stuff, okay? Right. Like what's his career path? Is he working on getting a better job? Yeah, so he was working in the restaurant industry and ended up leaving that and he actually did some training in welding.

And so right now his job, he's doing some welding in his job, but the job itself is not fully welding so he probably could. Yeah, he needs to work on doing something to double his income. He's making what a 17-year-old can make a target. And this is not how you set up Hawaiian vacations. You can't go. Regardless of Ramsey. That's just the math doesn't work. Investing can seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be

whether you're a complete beginner or looking for next-level strategies the Ramsey investing hub has tools and information that can help you invest with confidence go to RamseySolutions.com slash investing or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Mark's in Canada. Hey Mark, how are you? Good, how are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just want to say it's been a pleasure talking with you guys. Very new to this Ransy solution and I have got a question about, I work in a family farm, um, at the tender fruit farm. And I've been working here for quite a while. I'm 33 years old. I worked, came right out of college.

Um, and there has been zero talk of transitioning ownership. Um, I don't know if it's maybe wrong of me to push this conversation, but I brought it up a couple times and it's just kind of been, not necessarily shut down, but I guess just pushed back. I'm wondering if you have any recommendations for me on how to proceed? Well we've studied family business and succession planning for about 20 years, and we've seen a lot of families do it poorly, and we've seen a few families do it well, and we've started trying to establish the principles of that because I'm in my family business.

And four years ago, after 14 years, my son Daniel moved into the president's office and for the first time since he's worked here he reports to me I'm the CEO and at that time we took 50-50 leadership of Ramsey. Today it's down to 80-20 with the gradually moving me out of the operational leadership of this company and staying in this seat because I want to keep doing this. I like doing this. So this is my retirement. I'm going to do this till I don't make sense and

they have permission to take me off only when I don't make sense. So we know what happens when people don't make sense and don't get away from the microphone. It's not good. So anyway we're not gonna do that but um yeah so we've studied this and a couple of things I can tell you the is your dad the first generation no my dad is the he'd be the third generation I'm the I'm the fourth. Yeah. Okay and so it's kind of assumed and in the air that it's going to be handed off in the family right? Yeah I yes. You have siblings? I do I have I have five siblings. And who else is who's how many, how many people in your dad's generation are the owners? My dad and my uncle. Okay and how many cousins have you got with the uncle?

I have one cousin who's involved so right now it's just my dad, my uncle, myself and my cousin. So your other siblings are not involved in the business? Not at all. But your assumption is that the non-involved ones won't have any ownership? That would be my assumption. Was that the model that they used with your dad and his brother? Correct. Okay, that's a fair assumption then. That's not unusual, particularly in farming it's not unusual. All right, so I think the, I don't think it is unreasonable for you, as a matter of fact I think it's very reasonable of you to want to know what the flip's going on here and it needs to be said out loud. So here's what happens when the managing

generation does not build out a long-term gradual succession plan and announce it to the world. Your other team members don't know what's going to happen when the old man dies. They think the thing is going to fold up like a Walmart tent or Junior's going to get it and we don't know if Junior's competent or not. So the other team members are worried about that. Your vendors that you sell to

or your customers that you sell to are worried what's gonna happen when the old man dies because they don't know if Junior's competent or not and they're gonna be able to get a supply off your farm. The vendors that you buy from they don't know what they're signing up for dealing with you guys Because your dad has got to be was he 65 He is 62. Yeah. Okay, so you guys are ten years late Talking about this Yeah, and that's my fear and then the other thing, is I don't know how I can ever afford to

turn this. Like, I don't know what that looks like. Did your dad buy it? This company is large. So my dad grew it from a very small business to a very large business for a farm. Yeah. So I think you need to talk about it. You know, you got me over here, you got me over here working on a tractor and I can't tell how I'm going to be able to buy this thing. Or if you're going talk about it. You know, you got me over here, you got me over here working on a tractor and I can't tell how I'm gonna be able to buy this thing. Or if you're gonna give it to me. Because we haven't talked about it. And I can't sit here in the dirt and not know anymore. Well, I need to know something.

Because I may need to go, maybe I need to go get a job. And what about the uncle, does he talk about it? Yes, the uncle's more willing. And there's, he's trying to bring up profit sharing, but it just doesn't ever seem to go anywhere. So you're okay, so your uncle is also trying to push the conversation. I think you sit down with the two of them

and you have a frank conversation that says this, you men are incredible, you have built an incredible business. Not having a plan to systematically communicate to me and the rest of the team and our customers what's gonna happen here is gonna be the doom of this business. And I'm not okay with that.

I want to honor all of the hard work you've done. I want to honor you great men by being able to continue your life's work here. And I want to pay you honor, but the way I'm going to pay you honor is, is that we need a game plan boys. And I don't have to have it tomorrow. And I, I, I, and I don't have to have

control tomorrow. I'm not trying to take over. This is not a coup, but I am't have to have it tomorrow, and I don't have to have control tomorrow. I'm not trying to take over. This is not a coup. But I am not going to sit here and as you fall back in the grave, toss the keys out. Because that will doom the business. One thing we discovered, Mark, as we studied all these companies is that, and farms included, that if they literally grab their chest and toss the keys out as they fall back in the grave, the percentage of those businesses

that are open four years later is almost none. The more gradual the succession plan, the higher the probability of the continued operation of the business, the sustainability of it. Because you doom the place by an 80 year old still sitting there and grasping control because their identity is so tied into the fact that they're the boss. And now they got a 60 year old son who's neutered. This is what we've discovered. And it's why I've been so systematic. I'm only 64 dude and I'm almost out of Ramsey other than the on air parts. Okay. I mean I'm still around I'm still a CEO I still I'm still in control but the day-to-day operational things Daniel and our leadership team are handling about

80% of it these days and and I could, I could easily still be doing it. I love doing it. I love running it, but it's not good for my son. It's not good for my customers. It's not good for my business, for Dave's little boy identity issues to get in the way of all that crap. And so, you know, it's time to be a man. You know, and that's what this comes down to. So I don't know if this will help you or not. Play it back for your dad. I understand how he's holding on, but his lack of communication

and lack of laying out a game plan is bad leadership. It's bad leadership. And it's not fun to turn loose the stuff that you love for the good of the thing. But you know, it's kinda like, you know, when your kid goes off to college, the last one went off to college, and she's like, we're done, it's kinda sad.

But here's the trick, you hope we're done. We don't want them to come back. We don't want failure to launch. Failure to launch is not success. That's right, that's right. So I'm sad that you're leaving, but be gone with you. Our scripture of the day, 2nd Corinthians 416, Therefore we do not lose heart,

though outwardly we are wasting away yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day thomas edison said if we did all the things we are capable of we would literally astound ourselves i love that that's pretty cool rachel is with us in new york city hi rachel how are you? Hi Dave, hi Jay. Thank you for taking my call today, big fan of the show. Sure, thank you. How can we help? So my husband and I, we make a decent income. Our take-home is just a little over 9,000 a month and we're currently on baby steps 3B while simultaneously doing baby steps 4 and 5. We currently have 34,000 saved towards our down payment,

but the homes around us are around $900,000 to a million dollars. Even if we look further out 30 minutes or an hour, the homes are still in the 700 to $800,000 price range. There's the option to purchase a co-op, which is much more affordable, but our friends and family advise against it due to strict HOA board rules and us not technically owning the property, but the shares of it.

Ideally, we would like to spend no more than $3,000 on the mortgage, property taxes and insurance included, but according to the mortgage calculator on the Ramsey website, we would need to save 500,000 towards a down payment in order to make this happen. My question is, should we go the co-op route and then upgrade to home later down the line, or should we just continue to save money in a high-yield savings account

for the next 15-20 years or so to pay for a home full in cash? Well, to start with 15 or 20 years, you're extrapolating your existing income with no raises and that's not realistic. So that's a wrong set of assumptions to do the formula. So you're exaggerating that. The co-op in New York's, in Manhattan, is not an unusual way to buy a property at all. Anywhere in America, it would be highly unusual but there it's it's normal the the the thing that that You have to be aware of and that your friends and family or whoever's you know bringing up is What the HOA bylaws are and what you know, what's governing this thing? Because where you can get sideways on a co-op

is if it's misgoverned. And then you've got a real mess on your hands and you don't get the appreciation then because your HOA fees and stuff go through the roof because of mismanagement, no pun intended. And if the HOA fees get out of control, the value goes away because nobody wants to buy it. So what you've got to do is get something in a

very predictable environment where okay I can look at the HOA fees and I can look at the operations statements for the last five years and I see a very steady environment and you look and say okay okay, the, the use and the resale and so forth in these bylaws is not so restrictive that I hate living there. Okay. Cause some of these places get very militaristic, don't they? Right. That's what you don't, I mean, you don't want to lose the joy of being there just cause everybody's, you know, it's HOA completely on steroids and out of control

So if you can get something where the HOA is reasonably operated in terms of the environment and the lifestyle around it the human beings dealing with it and That they've been very steady. It's okay if it increases because costs have increased but but that the You know the the increases are reasonable over the last five years. In other words, you get all these indications in your due diligence that the operations of the HOA are done properly and efficiently. If you do all that, then a co-op is as good as a condo, is as good as a fee simple.

Because technically in a condominium, you're in a very similar situation somewhere else in America. If you bought a condominium, you're buying into a similar thing to a co-op. It's a little different. But you still got the same issues there. And if you buy into it, I'm in a single family in a golfing community that's got all these other expenses associated with the community.

So if they mismanage that thing, they can destroy the value of my free standing single family because they run the dad gum costs up and it makes it unappealing to live there for resale. And so you can run into that with any time you've got an HOA of any kind involved, but just study that and watch that. And I think you're okay to move into the co-op. Co-ops, again, if you've never done deals in New York City or don't know about deals in New York City, the co-op's a very weird transaction. Yeah, I've never heard of it. Well, it's as prevalent as condominiums in other places.

Okay. In other words, as condominiums in other places. In other words, it's not unusual at all there. It's very normal. And I personally don't have a problem with the way they're structured. Again, I'm gonna look at it though, if I buy a condominium, I've got a bunch of condos, we own probably 15 condos that are rentals.

And one of the things before we bought into those, not only were we looking for a deal, because they were investment properties, but we're also looking at how the dad gum things managed. Are these HOA fees gonna make me wish I didn't own it? You know, because they take all my rental profits by the time they, with their screwed up sideways management stuff.

Kathy is with us in Albany, New York. Hey Kathy, how are you? Hi, I'm fine, and I hope you are the same. We are. Good afternoon. Afternoon. Yeah, doing okay, but in the middle of a decision-making process and really having a hard time with it. I'm 74 and my husband is 82. We've been over the years not very good about saving.

We've been giving. We've been doing a lot of giving. And that has brought us to a place where we really don't have anything except our monthly and yearly income, our pension, Social Security. And I'm living in a, in what was a childhood home that, um, I did inherit, but, but we put money into it.

We took out a mortgage, the mortgage is roughly a remaining of two 60 and the house right now is probably worth somewhere around 740 to 795,000. But it's a difficult place for us to be in because my husband's had a lot of health issues. And again, it's a family home. And I really kind of don't know where to go for what we're paying here now. And like I said, we we have debt and So that's how much debt have you got just the house?

No, approximately 60,000 on what? Lines of credit and Credit card debt. Why? Yeah, currently. What did you buy? That's a good question. Well, basically, because we had no savings or anything, the bills that we have coming in here and what goes out.

So you can't live on your income. How much is the pension and the social security together? Each month. Roughly, each month it's around 6,000. How much is the mortgage? How much is your mortgage payment? About 1,200. Okay. So where's the rest of the money gone? To the debt? Taxes, taxes, taxes are high up here. Land taxes, school taxes are high. House insurance is high. We have a car insurance. Then you have your oil and propane bill.

Lots, lots of, you know, the internet, the all that stuff. Yeah, Kathy, I don't wanna run out of time and the clock's bearing down on me. I'm so sorry. I wish I could take two hours with you. Cause this is an important decision. So ultimately you guys have got to get your budget to balance. What you're describing is you can't sustain with what you're doing. Something has to change for you to sustain and

that's either an income increase or an outgo decrease and so you're probably looking at selling the house if you don't increase your income somehow and and you can just smile and say you know when we gave all that money away we gave away the house because it's one of the things we gave away. And you didn't technically give it away, but you left yourself in a position where you couldn't keep it. And that's, you know, that's where you set yourself up to be. And I'm so sorry. I hope you can figure out some way to get this budget to balance and make it sustainable and you can keep it. But it doesn't sound like it's fun for you anymore. I'm sorry. That puts

this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.