The Ramsey Show - App - You’ll Never Succeed if You Can’t Build Trust (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss:  Dr. Henry Cloud on Trust: Knowing When to Give It, When to Withhold It, How to Earn It, and How to Fix It When It Gets Broken, "How do I get my money on track as I'm expecting my first child?" "Should I pull from my Roth IRA to pay off debt?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, real relationships. I am Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney, and we have

a special guest this hour, and I'm going to say this, and I'm not saying it just to be nice, but genuinely, one of my favorite people on the planet, Dr. Henry Cloud, is with us what's up man

hey welcome welcome and you're here to hang out with us but more importantly because you are launching and have launched yesterday your brand new book trust by dr henry cloud knowing when to give it when to withhold it how to earn it and how to fix it when it gets broken in life and business. It's a lot. There's a lot of promises there. Dr. Cloud, you are talking to two people who've got major trust issues. And so I can't think of a better book that we got to pick your brain about, man. For real.

You know, I was thinking about your listeners, you know, especially that are in the financial tribe. And that second one, when to withhold it. Like how many of us have lighter wallets because of somebody that we shouldn't have trusted? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Or maybe you shouldn't have lent it to. So having a map of an algorithm to check off the things that have to be there to trust, and if they're not, to not trust, I mean, it's a big deal.

It's a lot, because it's an integral part, if not one of the most important parts of a relationship, right? So whether you're looking at- And life. Yes. Life and business. God has wired us, literally wired us to trust because we have to trust in order to get life from the outside because we don't have life inside. It starts with a baby and the chemicals

start flowing and you get in this drug trip and you trust and you get good things that come in and we're wired to trust. But because we're wired to trust, we're propelled sometimes to trust people that we shouldn't be trusting and so it's trying to get the head and the heart working together and if we have some boxes to check that that helps so um in private conversations and i guess in some public conversations um people ask me about you know what do i think the damage that was done to kids because the masks and schools and this and that and if i'm being honest and i step back when i tell people i think we've got a hundred year issue it and please tell me i'm wrong i look back over the last three years and we've lost trust

in medicine and we've lost trust in education and we've lost trust in politics we that concerns me infinitely more than these day-to-day decisions that we're trying people are making the best decisions they got how do we get this back man i feel like the epidemic that is just that the air we're breathing is nobody trusts anybody for any reason about anything anymore well it helps to know what we're looking for. First of all, a lot of people think, well, I trust this person or I don't, like it's a toggle switch on or off.

But really, God's built into us an algorithm. Right now, we've been trusting the air and we're breathing. You don't even think about it because your system has been sensing data and taking it in and coming up with an automatic, yeah, breathe. And you don't have to think about it before it reaches your conscious mind. If you smell a fume, before you even smell it, your body has sensed some things and you're going, wait a minute, what is that? So the algorithm inside of us has got to load on some factors.

And if we're going to ever trust again, it's got to be there's a process that has to happen for us to hit go. Because right now, everybody's hitting off when there actually are doctors you need to trust. Yeah, right. There are entities. Systems in place that are good, yes. Yeah, right. You know, there are entities. Systems in place that are good, yes. Yeah, and so we got to get back, but these things have to be built into the path back. Okay.

And that happens in the big picture, like you're saying, but it also happens cell to cell. Yeah. You know, if divides in families over these issues or divides, you know, around the lawmakers over these issues, if they're not in proximity, really getting to where they can know why I'm going to trust this person, then it's just going to stay there. So what caused you to write a book on trust?

Because usually for most authors, they see a problem. Maybe that keeps reoccurring, or maybe it's something you just haven't written about yet. But when I heard about the book, I was like, I wonder just what was in your mind, like what caused you to want to write about this topic specifically? Well, it is similar to that. You know, I always say, I don't write books, the work writes the books and and so in war rooms with ceos and leaders and you know even in in family problems and all of it if it's a performance issue or it's a love issue at some level when you get into resolving that it is going to call for either a repair of trust or an initiation of trust or a qualifying for trust in order to get to the next step. You can't scale anything in life without trust. I was talking to a guy on the plane when I was researching the book.

He said, what are you working on? I said, I'm researching trust. And he goes, oh, I don't trust anybody. I said, really? He says, yeah, I learned a long time ago, you can't trust people. He said, I only trust myself. I said, well, dude, I'm a psychologist and you're crazy. He said, what do you mean?

I said, look out the window. We're at 40,000 feet. Did you get yourself up here? You didn't. You trusted a couple of pilots. How do you know the guy that put fuel on the plane didn't put chocolate milk in it? You trusted a couple of pies. How do you know the guy that put fuel on the plane didn't put chocolate milk in it? You trusted him, right? You can't scale life without trust.

But I said, if I hear your story, though, I bet there's been some key betrayals that have wounded your ability. And now I bet your life is limited in some ways too. So it is a key, key, key skill that we have to build in order to make all of life work, whether it's building a business or having a relationship. Yeah. So what do you say to somebody

that's like, yeah, I'm like that guy on the plane. I don't feel like I trust people. And they think back to my story. Oh yeah. And they could probably point out some major events, minor events that caused them to be who they are today. How do you repair that?

What do you do? Well, what if you're that person and somebody said to you, well, I understand that. But what if we had a map? And if I could give you a map of to look for these things, and then if you saw those things, then you could take the little bitty next step forward. Then would you engage in that? And a lot of times when we have something to hold on to, you know, you guys tell people, they're going to mount the dead. I'll never get out of debt. You know, well, yeah, you will.

But you got to have the right steps to take, right? And it's not going to happen in a minute, but the process will work. Yeah, it's so good. I think this is such an important topic. Will you stay one more segment? Absolutely. Okay, let's stay and keep talking about this though, because I think this goes in so much of our life and our money and relationships as regards to money within spouses and how they work together on the subject of money, whether it's their work, their life, everything. So Henry Cloud, Dr. Henry Cloud will be back with us after this break. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer,

and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event.

So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz here with Dr. John Deloney. This hour in this segment, we have a special guest. Dr. Henry Cloud is here with his new book, Trust, knowing when to give it, when to withhold it, how to earn it, and how to fix it when it gets broken in life and business. And it's blowing up the charts. It released Tuesday and it's already... Yep. Bestseller already in all the categories. So...

Awesome, man. Absolutely incredible. So do you find find okay so even that that subtitle when to give it when to withhold it do you find people tend to find it easier to give it do you find people it's they or more people withhold it's like where do you find like just general population when you're out talking is it is it easier for people do you find more people are willing to give trust and like all that or do you feel like people more are withholding? Typically, the people that we call the empaths, right? They feel for everybody.

And oh, yeah. And they kind of assume that everybody's like them. They're loving and responsible. So they just assume everybody's like, well, read the newspapers. I've learned that lesson the hard way, yes. Look back. Did you marry your prom date? You know, probably he might have had a misfire along the way.

So there are a lot of people that do that. And on the other side, you know, Rachel, people have been burned. And so the trust muscle does get broken. And a lot of people withhold trust where you know even take parenting john you've seen this a thousand times how many teenagers are kind of starting to act out because the parents won't trust them where it would be appropriate right you know or a marriage or you know how many micromanaging bosses are there that will never scale anything because they can't trust somebody to go do it? So it is on both sides.

Or trust gets weaponized as a way to hold power, right? Right. Yeah. Right. And, you know, the funny thing is a lot of people, it's a phrase that makes my hair catch on fire. Somebody sees something that doesn't make sense. You know, it might be their spouse said they were going to be somewhere or an expense report

or, you know, you said you were going to this meeting, but, and the immediate response is, what, you don't trust me? Were you questioning my integrity? Well,

I wasn't until you said that. No, I for sure am. That's right. That's right. Because we're not, that's a narcissistic entitled response. Like I'm entitled to your trust instead of, oh, no, here, let me show you.

Because trust really requires that one party is helping the other person make that leap. And you're never going to do it by persuading first. And leaders do this all the time. We persuade somebody, yeah, this is a great deal. You know, you're explaining, explaining, explaining. Trust starts. The first, you know, I got five big boxes to check. The first one is, I'm going to trust you when I understand that you understand me. If I don't know that you have listened enough

to know what I need and what hurts me and what helps me, and even in a deal, what I need for this to make it work for me, and you really get that, if I don't feel that, and that only comes through, there's a proverb that says, he who gives an answer before he listens, before he understands, is a fool. That's our culture. That's right. That's so true. How many conversations?

That's so true. You say something and immediately, well, you know, that happened to me, and it's like a cue to go talk about themselves. Yep, yep, yep. Instead of listening. I was talking about the first element of this in a leadership forum one time and a guy walks up to me and says i'm the lead hostage negotiator for the fbi everything

you just said is our training program he said if a guy's got a bomb strapped to him and 20 hostages in a bank, we don't walk in and start persuading him, saying, dude, this is a bad idea. Blowing up a bit, no, that's stupid. That doesn't end well. First thing we do is, hey, I'm Henry. They sent me in here to talk to you.

Tell me your name. And they get the name, and then they ask a question. So how did we get here today? What's going on? How do we find ourselves here? And they're drawing out from them. And once you begin, somebody feels understood, their reality validated.

It doesn't mean that you agree with it, but they feel like you're really getting it. Then neurologically, starting with the mirror neurons that an infant has to trust, physiologically, anatomically, psychologically, emotionally, the system begins to kind of release a little bit and we move towards. And what we don't want to do is do something where we hit pause or move away. And to make any business deal work or make any relationship work, that's the first one.

Somebody's got to feel it. How many times does somebody come home to a note, 10 years of marriage, note says, I'm leaving, I can't do this anymore, good luck. And the spouse goes, well, what? Well, they've been telling you for 10 years. And you haven't been understanding. So it starts there and then it goes from there into some very specific things we have to look for.

Flip that one around on me. One of the hardest things I struggle with personally when I'm sitting down with somebody and I'm asking them, tell me your story, is their defense mechanism whatever it may be whether it's addiction or whether it's um not true narcissism but just they lash out at people it's well earned oh yeah you got hurt you got hurt bad how do you encourage that person who's metaphorically holding a bomb it's like you're trying to tell the turtle to

stick their head down and go dude i just got run over by a truck exactly yeah it just happened so um somebody walks in to your world just just to continue with that story about the swat hostage negotiator and they say hey man how did we get here what's some encouragement what's a step somebody can take when everything in their body is saying stay inside the show don't say a word don't say a word but don't say a word, but you know, the only path out is trust. You know, the only way that this thing gets resolved with any sort of peace is I gotta go, I gotta say, I gotta, I gotta reach out in some way. What do you tell that person? Well, the first thing that you've got to do is tell them maybe without words, you know, we are wired and I can't go into this deeply enough or, you know, scream about it enough, but we are wired to trust predominantly in the beginning apart from words.

It's tones. It's presence. You know, one of the things that's hurt us with all the remote stuff, which, you know, obviously it's good for a lot of things to accomplish stuff, and we know that we need it. But when somebody's in the room and you feel their presence and the way that that presence is with you, that does magic. And so sometimes they're not quite ready for the words. So the first thing I would ask myself is, do they know I'm really with them in this moment? And can they feel that?

And, you know, tone is a big deal. You know, what do you do when you get an email and one's in caps? Dave never does that, Henry. Dave never does that, ever. The one word caps. The one word all caps. It's like even, I always always say i've trained four german

shepherds and a rottweiler and now doberman and i love dog training and first thing my dog trainer trainer i took dog training training of course you did and he taught me was you know people tell a dog to do something and then they don't do it, and then they finally say, no, what you just taught the dog is, well, I'm waiting on the angry one. You know, the other ones don't mean anything. But a lot of people think that, or don't think about, that how important tone is.

I mean, if you're trying to get something across to a kid or get somebody to do something, just the tone can create barriers in their brain where A, it won't work, and B, they're moving away from you. So I would just start with that. And then the more you, there's a proverb that says a person's intentions are deep waters, and the person of wisdom draws them out.

And so you've got to begin to get enough to find exactly what you said. Where's the fear, and where does the wound kind of get in the way here? So good. So you guys, all of that and so much more is in Dr. Henry Cloud's new book, Trust. Thank you. Thank you, Henry, for being here. Thank you for writing this.

This is a book for me right now. Absolutely. Can I tell one more? So go online right now and buy it. Right now? Yeah, go right now and get it. Everyone needs it. No, we got four seconds.

That's all right. Shoot. We need you here the whole hour. This is The Ramsey Show. Okay, you guys. So we have just two stops left on our Building Wealth live tour. Salt Lake City, you're up next. And let me tell you, you're in for a real treat

because this is not just your average money event. We're not going to be getting all like geeky and nerdy on all the details of everything. We are going to talk about truly, though, how to build wealth in our world today. And it's going to be Dave Ramsey, George Camel, Jade Warshaw and myself. And we'll be there for the entire evening talking about saving money, investing, and building wealth, no matter what the economy is doing. So right now through April 3rd, you can get some BOGO tickets, but I won't get one free, two tickets for just $49 or a pack of four for just $75. So use the promo code NIGHTOUT to get that deal. So bring a group of friends, maybe your small group at church, or just a date night. And George and I are going to be kicking off the conversation early. So before

the event, we're going to be talking about things going on in the world. It's kind of like our Smart Money Happy Hour. It's like a live version of Smart Money Happy Hour. Yeah, we're not really doing, we're not doing a podcast recording though, but we'll be answering some of your questions and hanging out with you guys before the event. And is no extra cost just bring your ticket and come a little bit early for that so to get your tickets in for the salt lake city building wealth event on april 24th go to ramseysolutions.com slash events today up next we have tyler in detroit michigan hey tyler welcome Tyler in Detroit, Michigan. Hey, Tyler. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help? Well, I've been struggling a little bit lately. Sorry, I'm a little nervous. No, you're fine. You're fine.

So recently I purchased a house in February and I am going to be a father in August. Me and my girlfriend are expecting a child. Congratulations. New baby. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm very excited. I'm nervous. I'm excited. Anyways, I'm having a really hard time budgeting. I do have some debts. I got a couple of motorcycles, and then I have a credit card I need to pay off, totaling about $13,500 right now. I make about $55,000 a year, and then I do work overtime. So I'm working about 50 hours a week. But I'm just having a really hard time with everything.

I'm very stressed out because I'm go, go, go. I get up at four in the morning. I'm working till 2.30 going to this house and working after. And I started listening to you guys about a month ago and I'm listening to you every day. And I just kind of don't know where to start. Awesome. Well, I'm so glad that you called, Tyler. So will you break down your debts one at a time for me? Cause you said you had two, was it two motorcycles? Yeah. So I have one motorcycle that I owe $1,511 on left. Okay. Um, my other one, I owe 11 five and then on my credit card, I owe $1,320.

Okay. That's great. Would you sell one of your motorcycles or both of those motorcycles? So I'm actually in the process of trying to do that right now. Awesome. I'm trying to sell the one that is the higher debt for me. Okay. And partially because I'm going to gain, you know,

I'm sure for what I'm selling it for, I'm hoping to get a little money out of what I paid for it. Uh, cause I do need to try to save for a new vehicle. I drive an older truck right now and one of the doors is not working anymore. And I need to get, well, let's say Tyler, let's do this.

I want to back out 30,000 feet here. How old are you, man? I am 26. 26, okay. Are you going to marry this girl? That is the plan. I love her a lot. She's a great girl.

So you've made a human together together and you bought a house together uh so i i purchased the house in my own name okay so good good my house but it's it's going to be our home okay for um for legal purposes let's don't even touch the morality thing for legal purposes i'd love to see you say, okay, here's an order of importance here. I'm going to get married and I'm, we're going to, we're going to start planning for our, our future, for our kid, for our marriage, for our relationship. We have a home. Now we're going to start working on like, how are we going to budget our money together? Right. And you're only gonna do that when you're

married, but it feels like you've got a lot of plates spinning all over the place. I'm going to try to sell this thing because I've got to get this thing, and then I've got to buy this thing, but I've got to save up for this thing. I'm all over the place now. Right. I'm breaking down. I'm stressed out. Yes, yes, yes.

So here's what we're going to do. A little bit of relationship stuff and the money and everything. I don't know what to do. So Rachel's going to walk you through the budget stuff, but I can hear that on you that there's just every plate spinning. So when you get off the phone, what I'd love to see you do is get a yellow pad, get a piece of paper, and I want you to draw a line right down the middle of it. And on the left side of that line, I want you to write down,

just take some time and write down everything that you got going on. A little bit of relationship stuff, baby coming on the way, brand new house, having one of the faucets doesn't work upstairs, all that stuff down there. And then to the right of that list, I want you to go through and move over to the right side of that list. Everything you can actually do something about. You can't do anything about the taxes in Michigan. You can't do anything about how much it's raining or how much it's not raining. You can't do anything about the taxes in Michigan. You can't do anything about how much it's raining or how much it's not raining. You can't do anything about that stuff. You can go fix that faucet. You can make a budget. So what we're going to do is we're going to start controlling what we can control in a very real way. In this list, it's going to feel like the sky just parted because it's going to give you some clarity moving forward okay

all right so back to the dead so helpful yeah getting stuff yeah tyler because even as you're talking it's everything and i love what john said because it's amazing when you just put something visual and it's just down it's like oh there's kind of this like and you'll remember crap tonight you'll be laying in bed you'll be like oh there's five more things get up and write them down on that paper get up and do it otherwise they're gonna haunt you you won't sleep get up and write them down on that paper. Get up and do it. Otherwise, they're going to haunt you and you won't sleep. Get up and write them down. Okay, so money-wise, Tyler, I think you said earlier that you had $13,000 in debt, but you just gave me, you know, maybe $4,000. Is there any more debt, student loans or personal loans?

No. So I go to college right now. My work pays for it. I'm in a tool and die. So I'm a tool and die apprentice right now. Okay. So where, what else is left of the 13?

The two motorcycles and then the, uh, the credit card, which is 1300. Now I do have, uh, almost 6,800 bucks in my savings, but I don't know if I want to,

uh, put that towards it because of the baby on the way. Yeah. I hear you. Um, okay. But is there, but how does that towards it because of the baby on the way. Yeah, I hear you. Okay, but how does that, that's in total $13,000 in debt. Am I missing something? I have $13,500 in debt to the motorcycles, which one is $1,500, the other one is $1,155, and then my credit card is $1,320.

Okay. Yeah, $11,500, that's it. Okay. Yeah. So we're going to sell that motorcycle. I'm're gonna sell that motorcycle i'm trying to i'm trying to sell that motorcycle yes yes okay oh i hear you it's 11 okay i'm sorry so you're gonna yeah you'll sell that motorcycle then you'll only have you'll have about three thousand dollars left and and honestly tyler where you're at we usually tell everyone to pause the debt snowball

you know pile up some cash um when is the baby due august in august okay so i mean i'm kind of tempted tyler just because of where you're at you're a new listener you're like i just need traction somewhere there's a part of me that i'm like just go ahead and pay off the credit card and with your income coming in because you have you have a pretty great income and you're working extra i'm like man once that motorcycle is sold sold and throw some cash and get just a little bit of traction on this debt and selling that motorcycle is going to do that. But there's a part of me that I'm like, God, you would just get rid of all of this. If I were you, I would do that. And just pay it off and then start saving a ton. Because between now and August,

you can get a really big savings count. And then what's going to happen to Tyler, if that's all you're focused on by you pay off the debt, take that 6,800, sell the motorcycle, take the 6,800, pay off the remaining debt and then start stockpiling money. And that's the only goal between now and August financially that you're doing is you are staying current on all of your mortgage payment and all your utilities, everything going on. And you're saving up a massive emergency fund. And then once baby is good, once mom is good, then that's going to be your fully funded emergency fund. And so that's going to start to help you have traction. And if you stay on the line, Austin's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace

University for a year and every dollar plus to do a budget. Because even those things, getting the knowledge and then doing a budget is going to help you have a sense of peace too, to know exactly where your money's going. But you just need a little bit of direction and guidance. And I think by paying off this debt, it's going to give you some of that traction. And if this is her, propose. Put a ring on it, dude. Get married. let's do it our scripture of the day comes from first thessalonians 5 21 but test everything and hold fast what is good our quote comes from neil. People love conspiracy theories.

Oh, Neil. Incredible, guys. And he's been a part of some. So for those of you who don't know why I'm laughing, it's because Rachel doesn't believe Neil Armstrong exists. I do believe. She thinks he's a cardboard cutout. He exists.

He's animatronic man i have seen videos of those astronauts when people are like on the moon i saw that video and they're like they like punch them and stuff did you see that no but if i'd walked on the moon like they did actually i would be upset if people said i didn't walk on the moon because they went to the moon with like a protractor and like a graph paper, not even with computers. And so if I did all that work. How do you get to the moon doing that point exactly? All right. That's enough of you.

Good grief. I don't know. I don't know. We love a good conspiracy theory around here. They went to the moon. They went to the moon. All right. Up next, we have a good conspiracy theory around here. America, they went to the moon. They went to the moon. All right, up next we have Jade in Dallas. Hey, Jade, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys? We're doing well. Thanks for giving us a call. How can we help? So I have some student loan debt that I'm trying to pay off, and I'm wondering if I can use my Roth IRA to do that. The quick answer is a no, I would not. No, no, no, no.

How much debt? $53,000. Okay. How much do you make a year? $127,000. $127,000. Jade. You can do this, Jade.

Come on. What was your degree in? Communications. Okay. So here's why, Jade. We never recommend pulling out of retirement money to pay off debt because you're going to have

a lot of taxes, a lot of fees, and honestly, it's not worth it mathematically because also in your situation, Jade, you can do this. You can be debt free in 18 months. If you earn a year, you could cut your lifestyle all the way down, put half of your income towards this debt and have it paid off in a year.

B-A-N-A-N-A-S. Can you do that? I think I can. I do. The thing is, I thought that because it was a lost IRA, it was already taxed. So I wouldn't have to be penalized if I pulled the contribution. No, you still will be penalized. Yeah, there still are fees and penalties with that, with pulling before retirement age.

They will penalize you six ways to Sunday. That's a cool hack. I mean, I appreciate the effort there. That's pretty good thinking. But yeah, they'll kill you, man. They'll kill you. And plus, here's the effort there. That's pretty, that's pretty good thinking, but yeah, they'll kill you, man. They'll kill you. I wouldn't. And plus here's the other thing. Um, there's something about looking in the mirror and say, I dug this big hole and I am going to, um, develop

new muscles and new strength and new character by, by working my way out. And there's something about figuring out. Let me put it this way. When me and my wife had dug such a huge hole with our student loans and we had to get real radical about paying them off, we found that we could live with a lot less. And we found we could live in a lot smaller house than we thought we could. And we found success looked very different.

And that has, a decade later, our lives look very different had we, someone just came and waved the magic wand because I never would have learned that I can, what I really find value in in life, if that makes sense. So you'll discover so much about yourself by going through this process that I think is worth it. That's why, Rachel, that's why I tell people, I'd rather you pay off your loans and don't wait for the government to pay them off because there's a valuable process that you will go through in getting that done anyway. Oh, for sure. Yeah, Jade, because we've realized throughout the years that personal finance, so much of it is about your behavior. And like John's saying, if you

just magically pulled this money out, not only mathematically is it not wise because of the penalties and the fees, but it doesn't change who you are. And there's a process of paying off debt and sacrificing and changing your money behaviors that will outlast this paying off debt. You will have those habits with you as you go into saving for an emergency fund. You'll have those habits with you as you fund more into your Roth IRA. And as you start to build wealth, those money habits are going to be the thing that actually magnifies your wealth and helps you handle your wealth versus not feeling that sacrifice at all. So there's something about the journey of what happens to you in the process that John's saying is so, so important. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. And it's going to be hard. It's not going to be easy, Jay. It's going to gonna be the worst it's not great because what makes up this 53 000 what kind of debt is it

it's all student loans right it's all student it's all student loans and uh you make great money and you're in the 817 there in dallas and everybody drives nice cars and people are going to look at you that kind of know what you make and they're going to be like why are you driving that car or we're all going out you're going to say i'm not i'm trying to pay this thing off and you're going to be the oddball out for one year and then everything's going to change or maybe it may be 18 months if you slow play it a little bit but i think i think one year yep absolutely all right jade you can do this you can do this. You can do this. All right. Up next, we have Miles in Boise, Idaho. Hey, Miles, welcome to the show. Hey, hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Okay, so I've, you know, recently I started listening to you guys, thanks to a brother of mine. And my main goal is to get out of debt. Obviously my mentality was that's something that's shifted recently. Awesome. Um, but I find, I find myself in significant amount of debt. Um, how much I'm wondering, uh, total with everything I'm at 118,000. That doesn't include my home. Yeah. Does that include your home? It does not. It does not include your home. Okay. No. In addition to that would be $404,000 for my home. Okay, how much do you make a year? Well, I just started a business and so I'm coming in on my second year and last year we did $152,000 gross. Is that what you made or is that what you took home? No, what I made was closer to 80 000 okay what makes up the 118

so i have five credit cards and i have five i have three auto loans i have one uh loan on my equipment that i use and then i have another uh another loan on a building that I have in my backyard, like a shed kind of thing. Okay. So you're just kind of normal. I'm just kind of normal? Just kind of American normal. Got some credit cards, a shed in the back.

How much is your... My mentality up to this point has been well it fits into my monthly budget i can afford it monthly right and so yeah yeah like i said i've had to shift that mentality and now i kind of feel like i'm drowning and being that i'm two years into business this was the first winter that i came into where work slowed down significantly and now i really feel you're feeling it yeah how much is your mortgage payment on that on that four hundred and four thousand twenty three hundred dollars okay well that's not you know for an eighty thousand dollar income

that's not um outrageous uh as ratios because we want it to be about 25 of your income um being towards your mortgage payment um so miles, I mean, honestly, what I would look at if I were you is I would list everything out and I would say, what can I sell today? What can I sell? We have three vehicles. We got crap around our house that were probably bought on these credit cards that we don't need. Can my wife sell stuff online? We're taking TVs off the wall. We are going crazy because here's the deal, Miles. You guys have just been living what you feel in the moment

and you just kind of keep going and trucking and it's caught up with you. And so now you're at this point where you're thinking, holy crap, what have we done? What are we doing? And so you have to have a level of an extreme change to start to feel some traction.

So again, if I were you, I would be selling everything possible liquidate as much as you can to get some of this 118 down i mean how much is it on the cars total all three cars how much of that is 118 on the three cars i'm at 40 000 okay with all three total yes yep and then i have 25000 on my equipment that I run. And do you need that for your business? I do. Yes. All right. Another thing, if you're running your business out of your home checking account,

that's a whole other issue, man. You need to separate those expenses out. You got to pay your debt off, but man, if you're running this stuff through your home budget, you're going to create all kinds of chaos for you, for your taxes, for your business, for all of it. Yeah, separating that's going to be important. So, yeah, Miles, I mean, honestly, I would go scorched earth everything to attack this debt. And you're going to start to see the light at the end of the tunnel, especially if you go extreme and you sell this stuff. You work extra. You guys go all the way in.

It's going to be amazing, amazing what happens with the progress. So thanks so much for listening. And thank you, America. Thanks to all the guys in. It's going to be amazing. Amazing what happens with the progress. So thanks so much for listening. And thank you, America. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you, John, for a great show. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey,

we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's ramsaysolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.