The Ramsey Show - App - Your Ego Is Screwing You Over (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by best-selling author and great dad, Dr. John Deloney. And we are here for you, America, taking your calls about whatever you want to talk about. Mental health, wellness, money, relationships. It all happens right here on The Ramsey Show. Well, John, we had a really great live stream last night. Hundreds of thousands of people tuned in to break free from the cycles of stress and money.

And I hope they felt helped last night. And you did a great job. Yeah. And you did a good job, too. Thank you. It's fantastic, man. Hey, and more importantly, you got my text about, hey, bro, let's both wear green shirts on the show so we look exactly the same. It's what we do.

And my barber said that he saw you yesterday. I like how you've taken ownership over the guy who cuts my hair, too. There you go. Well, before we get to the calls, John, I want to remind people it is their last chance to pre-order my new book, Breaking Free from Broke.

This is the last weekend. It's launching. It is actually launching next week. It's the ultimate guide to more money and less stress. And if you order by January 15th at midnight, you'll get all of the $100 in bonus items,

the e-book, the audio book, a video talk I did, exclusive access to an online event, and more. So $20 to pre-order, and you'll get $100 worth of stuff. I saw it last night. People were – one of our managers was watching our different book sales, and your Breaking Free from Broke was far outpacing mine. Well, the event is called Break the Cycle, so I think people thought, this has got to have to do something with this. No, I think

everybody got done with Christmas and they realized, I can't keep doing this. The financial hangover is here. Right. So I think this book's going to help you reach those money goals. Absolutely. So check it out, RamseySolutions.com slash store. Pre-order by January 15th. Guys, this is your last weekend to do it. Appreciate everyone who's

done it so far. Kelly kicks us off in Raleigh, North Carolina. Kelly, what's going on? Hi, how are you guys doing today? Doing great. How are you? Doing great. So I'm finding it difficult to have a conversation with my friend about the best way to manage her finances. Since she relocated across the country, she's held three different jobs in the past year and spends way more money than she has, along with starting graduate school and taking out loans. I feel like I've missed too many opportunities

to address this issue, but I still want to know how can I bring this up in a loving manner? I have developed a rule that I'm still working on, meaning I've got a rule and it's a rule of life, but I break it often and 2024 is going to be my year. Okay. But here's my rule. I don't ask questions. I mean, I don't provide answers to questions I have not been asked. Okay. And here's why that's become important. The moment you launch into somebody to try to solve a problem in their life that they have not invited you in to help. Often that problem that you see is some sort of coping strategy that they have adapted.

It's maladaption is what they call it, but they're using to get through their day. And when you go after somebody's coping strategy, they have to fight you. It's what's keeping them alive, right? And so whenever you start fighting, nobody's listening, nobody's learning. That's why these pundit shows are so useless because when people start yelling at each other, there's no learning that can happen, right? There's just a grenade being thrown back and

forth and everybody ends up in ash. So I do think a, uh, there's two, two ways I approach this. Number one, I am honest about myself and my boundaries. What does that mean? Instead of saying at a restaurant, hey, honey, you put everything on a credit card. You don't even have the money to be doing that, right? All those statements begin with you. And now she's got to fight you back. She got to defend herself. It's different than, hey, I have this thing where I don't use credit cards. I can't even be associated with them. I'm going to pick this meal up. I know I'm weird. I have a whole thing about it. And then if she wants to ask you, tell me about that.

Now she's invited you. Now like the vampire, like you've invited the vampire in the door, and now it's game on. Do you see the difference there? Yes, yes. So just wait and be patient. Partially. Partially, but also exert boundaries.

But I think he's saying you go first, too. And you say, hey, I don't know what your goals are, but I've got a bunch around money first too and you say hey i don't know what your goals are but like i've got a bunch around money and if you want to do this thing together like i know this great class called financial peace university would you go through it with me that's a very different sentence than hey i can tell you're broke uh what can i do you know that's so i think obviously you have a great heart about it but you living your life and her seeing that and her noticing and going wait you paid off your debt. We make like the same amount of money. How did you do that? And you just sharing your story with her, she's naturally going to open

up and hopefully start asking questions over time. And hear what George said. One is an invitation. One is a lecture. And so if you want to do something really hard um say hey i'm getting i'm recommitting myself to my financial goals this year i just feel dumb doing this by myself would you join me and that whole conversation is about you well can she help you and then she's going to learn something along the way. It's different than, yeah, like George said, you got some real problems, and so you can come to me and I'll save you. Does that see the difference? And we talk about this on the show a lot,

particularly when it comes to how elderly parents spend money, and their kids are like, what are you doing? It's one of the hardest things a person can do is to watch somebody they love make decisions as adults that they are by law they're allowed to i mean they're allowed to do it and we know that a train is coming on that road they've chosen to drive on okay right yeah i i have explained to her the whole ramsay solution the walking through the baby steps because my husband and, we just got through with

baby step two and explaining that to her, but it just didn't seem like she opened up to it. Here's what she's going to open up to. How much you laugh and smile, how much joy you have, and how much, how you tip, and how generous you are.

Showing up and showing up and showing up. Okay. Does that make sense? Well, yes, that makes perfect sense. It might take weeks or months. It may never happen. Yeah. You sound sad.

Tell me why you sound sad. Well, I just, you know, I got another text message from her last night of just, like, how she had spent you know more money and you know I wanted to be the hero and jump in and just you know try to explain to her why that was a bad decision even though she can't take it back and so it just it really breaks my heart and I know that she's struggling. But if you sent her a link to the EveryDollar app and said hey this app's really helped me take control of my money. It's a free download. Check it out if you want.

But, George, she's not asking for money help. She's actually asking you to celebrate with her, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So maybe a response like, wow. Party. Yikes. Expensive.

Sounds expensive. Yeah. Yeah. But if it's a true friend, it wouldn't hurt John's feelings if I went up to him to address a real problem I saw in his life. So it just depends on the relationship

and the trust that you guys have built. Yeah, and I think that's an important call out, George, and I'll end the call with this. There is moments in my friends' lives and they have done it to me when I step in very directly. And I have to know that I might burn the relationship for a season,

but I can't continue to watch somebody hurt themselves. So if somebody's struggling with alcohol, if somebody's struggling with self-harm or they're considering dying by suicide, I get square in the middle of that. One of my buddies was actively cheating on his spouse. I'm getting right in the middle of that. So similarly, if you feel this is the moment

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slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. Be brave, tap on those numbers, and jump on the line, and we'll talk about your life, your money, and your relationships. Next up, we've got Marshall in Oklahoma City. Marshall, what's going on? Hey, George. Hey, John. Excited to join the show. I had a question about just one of the things that I'm going through right now.

Before this, I was paid off on all the consumer debt that we had, student loans, cars, bought a house. Everything was great. Didn't really know the Ramsey show. Not much heard about it. We bought her new car in cash. And then my car, I thought I got the deal of the century at 0% in 2022. But as you know, it depreciates immediately. Just like John points out the alarm bell sound. Now that I'm back in debt, didn't want to be back in debt. Basically, we're about three months away from paying off the car. So excited to say that. But the real question is, do I wipe out the entire cash that we have

and throw that out the car in three months when we're able to do that? Or with it being a 0%, can we wait a few months so that way we build up that cushion so when we do wipe it out, we're already starting baby step three. So what's left on the car loan? The loan is 42 and we currently have about 36 in the bank. 42,000 or 4,200? Correct. 42,000. But you're going to earn 42,000 in three months to pay it off? No, we'd have 36K in the bank. I know, but you just said you're about three months away from paying it off.

Right. So we would be earning about $6,000 to pay that off and probably by late March, April-ish. You're saying if you wiped out all of your savings, then you'd only have about three months left. Right. Yeah, like if I did it today or if I even did it three months from now,

you know, I have the $1,000. But with it being 0% interest, I was curious your thoughts of maybe waiting until June or July. I want it gone. The alarm bells are sounding, but I also don't want to have that alarm bell sounding. What's your household income? Why don't you sell it, dude?

It is $100K after taxes. After taxes. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of car. What's your other car worth? The other car is worth about $55. Sell it. Goodness55. Sell it.

Goodness gracious. Sell it. You guys have way too much car. Yeah. Are you guys just car obsessed? Is this a luxury vehicle? For me, it is. For her, it's the 10-year plan. For her car,

15-year plan. There's no such thing as that. Marshall, sell the car. Yeah. Today. Okay. Give me a reason why you wouldn't. Just because it would be...

That's not a good reason. Sell it. Whatever you're about to say wasn't a good reason. Sell it. It was a trick question, apparently, from John. Sell it. Well, Mark, here's our parameter on cars, Marshall. If the total value of

all things with wheels and motors is more than half of your annual income you have too much of your world and net worth and wealth tied up in depreciating assets okay so it you guys would be over that mark and so one or both of these cars has to go um and if i'm going to be the husband in this situation, it's your car. Right. No. And I, yeah. What's your car worth? It would be worth, I think last I checked, it'd be worth like 36 or 37K. So you're underwater by about six grand? Yeah. Five or six grand. Yeah. So you could take six grand from savings and then cover the difference and get rid of this loan. And then you've got 30 grand left to now go get you a reasonable used car right now. Right.

But that gets you debt free tomorrow and frees up your income, which will allow you to then leapfrog into baby step three immediately. And if I'm you, I'd go get a five to $10,000 Camry. You're not impressing anybody and then you still have twenty thousand dollars in the bank you then you're basically done with baby step three this whole thing catapults you if you will suck up your ego for a minute and flush it down the toilet see what i'm saying we we say that as two guys who, just as of recently, have driven really crappy cars, Marshall. So we are not sitting on our high towers. I drove a $6,000 Civic up until two years ago. There's no way my car's worth $6,000.

I think cars are one of the worst purchases we can make as a society. And so only do it when it's a toy that is such a tiny part of your world that it really doesn't matter. Cars are utility up until the part where you have that much wealth. So what is your net worth right now? And do you have any other debt? No other debt. Like I said, the alarm bell sounded when I thought I was getting the deal of the century. Come to find out I'm paying payments again.

So that's – Well, let me tell you how 0% works. The way they are able to do that is by screwing you over on the price. Because when you get a 0% car loan, you get zero incentives, zero deals. You are paying top dollar for that car. That is how the car dealerships are able to do those. And so what happens is your car depreciates immediately and goes to the real actual value. Now you're underwater on the car while thinking we're winning because we have

zero percent interest yep see how they get you it's disgusting so marshall you got real quiet when george and i were telling you to sell your car why are you so quiet honestly i was wanting to sell it a couple months after i got it and uh just friends and family you know saying that so it's it's dropping my ego that's it and just friends and family, you know, saying that. So it's, it's dropping my ego.

That's it. Are your friends and family broke too? Not all family, but yeah, I mean everyone else. Yeah. Yeah. They don't get a vote,

dude. I know that. Think about this. I want you to, I'm going to do like a cheesy thing with you. Are you in? Say that again? I'm going to do something real cheesy thing with you. Are you in? Say that again? I'm going to do something real cheesy with you.

Is that cool? Yeah. Okay. Well, you take a huge deep breath, as deep as you can real quick, and hold it for like a count of three. Okay? One, two, and then exhale. Three.

Close your eyes real quick and imagine in one calendar week, this time next week, you owe nobody anything. You have a $10,000 Camry in the driveway. Nope, you're not going to press one of your friends, not one. You and your wife are now out to dinner talking about saving up for a house. There will not be a single alarm bell ringing in your body. Yeah. We currently have a house, and that's kind of what, I mean, our net worth is probably around $400,000.

But, yeah. This was a brand-new vehicle, I assume. Brand-new. Both vehicles brand new we paid hers in cash and then like I said this was 0% thought I was getting a deal just like you mentioned you're immediately underwater the moment you drive it off and guess what it became the moment you drove it off the lot

a used car that's right so I'm just going to buy used and let someone else take the hit on depreciation next time until you're a net worth millionaire. Then you can stomach the hit of depreciation. It's going to feel like a pinch more than a punch. So I'm sorry you had to learn this lesson this way, man, but I'm getting rid of that car and you're going to have a $42,000 car one day when you can afford it in cash and it's not derailing your other financial goals. Or you're going to drive a $10,000 car and be like, oh, I never need to run in the first place.

Either way. Either way. Either way. Or maybe you'll get a Tesla and it will run out of batteries and your friend John Deloney will have to push it down the highway for you while you're steering it. You know what we did with my wife's last car, John? George Camel. What? We bought her an $8,000 car.

It was very reasonable. And then I got Apple CarPlay installed for about 500 bucks. It felt like a luxury new car. That's all you really want. When people show up to the car lot, all they're really wanting is CarPlay and some heated seats would be like, wow, I'm living in luxury. Yeah, and brakes that work. Goodness. I opened the, so the car loans chapter in my book, Breaking Free from Broke John.

Here's the quote I opened with. You'll love this. If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments. It's from Earl Wilson. I just love that quote. They'll come get you. They care. They care as soon as you don't make the payments. But I walk through the depreciation of cars, John. Get this, new car purchase price, 40 grand. New car value after one minute drops 10% down to 36. One year down to 32. Two years down to 27. Three years down to 23. Four years, it's%, down to 36. One year, down to 32. Two years, down to 27. Three years, down to 23. Four years, it's only worth 19 grand. Five years later, 60% loss in value. $40,000 cars now worth

16 grand. You paid 50 for it after interest, and you're thinking the car dealerships, you're going to stick it to the man with your 0% interest? They beat you every time it's exhausting goodness gracious america we gotta choose freedom over our egos we are driving our retirement plans this is a problem this is the ramsey show welcome back to the ramsey show i'm george camel joined by dr john deloney if you didn't know the ramsey network has a ton of great shows, including the Dr. John Deloney Show. We've got the George Camel channel on YouTube and on Spotify. So if you enjoy this show, you're going to love the other ones we've got for you. And you can jump on to ramseysolutions.com and check out all of the

sweet shows we are rocking. The number to call is 888-825-5225 if you want to jump on the phones. Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Winter is rougher in some areas of the country than others, but there are things that make sense to do no matter where you live. And that's why Neighborly has a helpful winter checklist you can download for free. You can get it at Neighborly.com slash Ramsey. All right, today's question comes from Jackie in Ohio. She writes, I've been married to my husband for 30 years. He earns a six-figure salary, and I've been a stay-at-home mom.

He wanted to manage our finances because working together stressed him out, and he didn't want to argue. Oh, geez. Maybe if, oh, God. He wasn't a brat. I thought we lived a good life, but on a recent vacation, I overheard him checking account balances on our credit cards and became concerned. So I started quietly researching.

I discovered he was tearing up financial documents and throwing them away, so I couldn't see them. Oh, boy. He has depleted 95% of a job buyout and taken loans on what little retirement savings he had, less than 100K. He refinanced our homes multiple times. So we still owe two thirds of our mortgage

after paying on it for 20 years. He also has over $130,000 in debt outside of the mortgage. I now realize we've been living paycheck to paycheck on a six-figure salary just to avoid confrontation. I'm going to stop you there, Jackie. You haven't. You have been living paycheck to paycheck because your husband's got something else going on. There's some significant deceit, whether it's an addiction, it's somebody else he's in love with, or he's got other pet projects he's trying to work through. This is not just to avoid confrontation. This is because he has a different life.

When we should be living and enjoying retirement together. I now work full-time and he does contract work. There are so many things wrong here. How do we move forward? So they're in their 50s, 60s. There's been a long pattern

where he's, quote, handled the money and by handled, I mean mishandled. They're deeply in debt and she's trying to go like how do i even begin to address this yeah um i'm gonna assume here george that there's no abuse okay there's no emotional abuse there's no physical abuse okay if there is that of course changes the dynamic with that said both people are at fault for here one the husband saying no i i just

i'm just gonna do it i don't want to argue with you and two her going okay and then 30 years later 20 years later acting surprised oh my gosh it's all gone sideways in bed right i'd be shocked if this marriage has been great this whole time i assure you it has not and like this strategy never works to be like well let me just handle this we don't fight about it and somehow you're gonna have a great marriage with that lack of communication with with no financial infidelity like this is exactly why we tell people combine bank accounts and have full communication right over what's going on and full transparency about what's going on in the finances. Even if you're not the nerd, you don't want to have to be the one whittling the budget

down. John needs to know what's happening in their budget. Correct. And so this has to be called out for what it is. He has been lying and cheating on you for 30 years. Anything less than that bold of a statement is watering it down and patting you on the head and saying, Oh, sweetie, you'll be fine. Because, honey, you are not fine. The numbers you just laid out here are terrifying. He has been lying and cheating on you for 30 years. And you have played your part by looking the other way and never asking a question because the vacation time just showed up and the presents just showed up and the bills

just magically got whatever. There's no way this has happened that you haven't had some inkling that things were off. Things were off. Now again, outside of if he's abusive, emotionally abusive, this has been unsafe. It's not a matter of you turning at your head. It's a matter of you laying low so you don't get your head knocked off. Okay. Totally different situation. But if you both have just been puttering along, then you both have to be part of the ownership here. Your husband's going to have to get down on both knees and say, I'm sorry. I have lied to you. I've stolen from our future. I have cheated you. Will you still keep me

around? And you're going to have to say, I'm sorry that I let this thing go on for 30 freaking years. Anything short of that, George, is them playing, they're playing patty cake, they're playing clean up, and there's not going to be any way to get out of this thing. Their marriage isn't going to survive it. Their finances

sure aren't going to survive it. They are broke, broke, broke, broke, broke, broke. Scary broke for their age. Yeah, that's step one. If and when you get to that point where you've had that conversation, they come to Jesus meeting and it goes well, then we can start attacking the debt and pay down this $130,000 with a six-figure salary. You should be able to do that in two to three years if you're not doing anything else.

Oh, there's no six-figure salary anymore. He got bought out, and then he blew it. So now she works full-time. And he does contract work. Contract works over. Now he's going to work three jobs. That's right. He's going to work three jobs.

We need to get back to a six-figure salary if we're going to have any hope of cleaning this up and retiring one day. Because he also depleted the retirement account down to almost nothing. So you're going to have to rebuild that. And so retirement, it's not even in your vocabulary for the next decade. You guys are going to be working, working, working. And I hope one day you get the mortgage paid off and you can retire and this marriage can be saved. But it starts with those hard conversations. Yeah. And this might be a situation where you've got to sell your house

and you've got to downsize and you've got to go to an apartment that's of much less value. I mean, it costs a lot less money to run on a monthly basis because y'all are in a mess. Y'all are in a mess. I would reach out to one of our Ramsey financial coaches and talk through the particulars here, Jackie, but this is a scary, scary mess.

And here's the deal. George, you and I talk about this privately. You can, when you're facing a scary mess, you can say that it's really scary and do what you've done for 30, this person Jackie's done for 30 years and just look the other way. Or you can stare a scary mess in the face

and turn all the lights on and say, we're going after it. We're going to figure this thing out. Get the gloves on. We're going to work. Yeah. Oh, that sucks. this makes my stomach sink yep don't let that be you guys address the stuff never brush under the rug to avoid conflict that never works if you are married to someone and they say don't worry i'll just take care of it do not accept that and if you're a person of integrity and i'll go this far if you're

a quote unquote i'm the head of the household i'm the man around here and you're a person of integrity and i'll go this far if you're a quote unquote i'm the head of the household i'm the man around here and you're so much of a coward that you won't sit down with your wife and say this is how our money works this is where we put our bills this is a and you don't bring somebody in on it shame on you this is both of you doing this together enough is enough is enough man all right let's go to to Andrew in San Jose. Andrew, we're up against the clock. How can we help today? So I have a question in regards to, I'm going to start investing my 15% income into retirement,

and I'm wondering, should I be using just my work-based plans, or should I also consider using IRA? Okay, so you have access to a 401k. Is there a Roth option at work for a Roth 401k? Technically speaking, I have access to a 457, which is a Roth account. I also have access to a 401A, which is a Roth account. Is one more of a deferred comp and one is a more traditional? They're both deferred comps, technically speaking. One just has other options you can do with it. Got it. Well, the way we look at it here is if 15% of your income filtered through,

match beats Roth beats traditional. So if you have a match, you start there. If you have Roth options, let's move to that. Then we move to traditional as a last way to finish off the 15. So if you have great options in those Roth accounts and great mutual funds to choose from, all of that, you can do all 15% in there. The Roth IRA will give you unlimited options when it comes to investing, so we're big fans of that.

I have a question on the Roth IRA side. Am I concerned that I may not be able to actually use it based on my income? Oh, you might need to do a backdoor Roth. Correct. And my thought was, is that more complicated or should I just do the 401k that I have access to, which has, I'd say, decent fund options. I wouldn't say they're amazing, but they're decent overall. Yeah. I mean, the backdoor Roth really isn't that complicated. All you're doing is funding a traditional IRA account with post-tax money

and then doing a quick conversion. And if you need help with that, contact a SmartVestor pro. You can access that whole network at ramseysolutions.com and click on the trusted pros there, and they can help with that process. But it really is simpler than you're making it out to be. But if you get good options, you can do all 15% in there. But I love the Roth IRA as an option because you get to choose instead of being beholden to the 10 or 15 you have through your employer. So thanks for the question. Love that you're building wealth. You sound like a young guy. I have full faith you'll be a baby steps millionaire in no time. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney.

If you missed it, last night we did a really fun live stream, our biggest ever called Break the Cycle. And if you did miss it, don't feel too bad because you can actually go to RamseySolutions.com slash Break the Cycle and watch the replay for free. It's a little over an hour long. And it was a killer night with Jade Warshaw, Rachel Cruz, Dave Ramsey, myself, Dr. John Deloney, helping people, you know, kind of lose the Eeyore spirit animal and go like, yeah, I'm going to do it this year, regardless of the cycle I've been in, for how long I've been in it and what I'm feeling, things are going to be different this year. And we gave you guys some tactical, hope-filled advice.

And so go check it out, ramsaysolutions.com slash break the cycle, if you want to watch back that live stream. Sean is in Jacksonville up next. Sean, how can we help? Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you? I'm a little anxious. I got just the guy for you. Yeah. Doc, I was hoping to be able to talk with you. So my wife and I got a year ago, did FPU, and we're making progress. We got the car almost paid off. We got a personal loan that

we're going to start working on real hard beginning of this year, but we still have the student loan, so that's 90K. And what did you him in my my wife got him uh pursuing a degree in uh speech language pathology okay is she doing speech pathology now yeah so she's working so so we got a kid at home he's he's almost two and we got another one on the way and um well so my the way i the way it's working out we're working she's working now to help pay off these two smaller debts and then i'm gonna be the only one working after the new baby comes, which I'm fine with because someone's got to take care of the kids. We can't afford childcare. And my question really sits on this.

As a father, as the head of the household, I'm working 40-plus hours a week, Monday through Friday. I'm trying to be very available on the weekends, but I don't want to sit in this forever. I want this debt gone. I want to be free. I want our family free of this. I don't want to be a bad father.

I don't want to be a bad husband. Should I be working extra on Saturdays? I did a second job. I mean, just to give you some context, I'm a structural engineer and I make north of 90 K a year. So, um,

one dude, thank you for your heart, man. I can tell this is weighing on you heavy and you want to be a good dad and you want to be a good husband. And, um, I can tell this is weighing on you heavy and you want to be a good dad and you want to be a good husband and I wish everybody came to the table with your spirit I'm going to tell you it's pretty hard thinking it's just pretty hard so I'm going to be as direct as I can

because we don't have a ton of time is that cool? that's cool number one I'm always very hesitant or avoidant of either or situations. You have backed yourself into a corner and you've created a bunch of truths for your home. We cannot afford childcare. My wife will not work. I am the head. So either I work 40 hours a week and I'm a crummy dad and husband, or I work a whole, whole bunch to get the stuff paid off and I'm a bad, crummy husband.

Here's the truth, or to use my language, here's you choosing reality. Together, you and your wife have created a financial reality for your home that your bodies cannot accept, cannot exist in. Y'all are broke. You owe $90,000 and she has a graduate degree and you're a structural engineer. You're two very brilliant, very successful people and yet you can't breathe financially. True or false? That's pretty true. True. Okay. So when we make declarative statements like i'm not going to x y and z um the math doesn't care what you declare it's a good rhyme i should probably write that down on a t-shirt that sounds very george camillie so here if i'm if me and my wife

are in a similar situation i would reframe our language. She wants to stay home. You want her to stay home. Yes. But you make $90,000 and she can make $65,000 to $85,000 and together in 12 months of scorched earth living, you could have most of this paid off. All of it. And that means somebody's watching the baby. Or

you can figure out X, Y, and Z. See what I'm saying? Yeah. But you're leaving one of your huge weapons, financial weapons at home, heading off into a war that y'all started, which is going to leave just dad to get shot at and beat up the whole time

and you're placed in an impossible position which is i have to work 90 hours a week which by like 40 is not going to cut it here yes you got to work saturdays you got to work sundays y'all owe six figures in debt y'all are broke okay you gotta do what you gotta do what you gotta do what you gotta do and um man it's gonna be tough to be a whole present dad and it's gonna be tough for her to be a whole present stay-at-home mom with no support and assistance from you right so y'all doing this together and taking a hard it's gonna suck for everybody on the front end but man y'all get through this thing faster it's the buffalo running through the storm y'all both link arms y'all run straight into the middle of this thing. No, it's not how we wanted it.

But this is the world we created for ourselves by borrowing all this money, and now we're going to get through it together as fast as humanly possible, and we're going to work our way out the backside. So how does that sound? Sounds tough. Yeah.

I feel like I'm the stronger one in the relationship. What does that mean? It means that when it's late, I'm willing to keep going. I'm willing to... I mean, she's got her talents. She's great with her son. She's a wonderful mother. She's great with our son. She's a, she's a wonderful mother. She's excellent wife.

When it comes to buckling down to, to spend the extra hours to keep working the wee hours at night to keep going to push. I mean, maybe I do it unhelpfully. I push myself too much and too hard sometimes. I feel like I'm more capable of it. I would disagree with that. You might be able to push forward. You might be able to push forward without a goal.

But, I mean, if she gets through graduate school and speech path, that's a tough program. And working with those kids and families or with the geriatrics every single day is tough. She's tough. She's delivered a baby. Yeah, she's made a human, dude. Goodness gracious. She's making a second one. But here's where it often, people often run out of gas when there is not an end in sight.

Yeah. The question is, you want to struggle for the next two years or 15 and so that's what we're trying to help you with is it's going to be stressful either way we just want you to solve for freedom a whole lot faster yeah there's the phrase we use around here is choose your heart it's it's not an easy path here here's what we see all the time though one of you goes all in and you work 75 hours a week. You're a structural engineer. And then you're driving Uber to the airports on Saturday mornings at 5 a.m.

You get some side hustle gig and then you deliver pizzas on Sundays. And you do that and you're a grinder. And so you'll do it for 18 months. And you'll get little gulps of air with your new kids, with your kids. And your wife will start to resent the fact that she's doing all of this by herself, that her husband hasn't changed a single diaper. You're going to start resenting her and this whole situation because you haven't got to change one single diaper and you miss your family.

And then the air conditioner breaks. And then you put it on the credit card because you have to. You got two babies in your house. And you see how this thing just keeps going and going. That's why we tell everybody, run as fast as you freaking can through this. Sean, what's left on the car loan? $3,000. $3,000. And what in the personal loan?

$10,000. Okay. So $103,000 is what you owe. You make $90,000. She works for a year. You guys can clean this up fairly quickly. And that might mean we got to do the math and go, listen, even after daycare, we'll still make an extra $500 a month. Great. That's $6,000 a year to clean this mess up faster.

So I'd sit down with her and have these hard conversations and know that you guys are a team. You're not going at each other. But, yes, you're going to have to work multiple jobs over the next couple of years to get this knocked out. That does not make you a bad dad. Doing what you have to do is for your family to be safe. That makes you a good man. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you.