The Ramsey Show - App - Your Emergency Fund Is Insurance, Not an Investment (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

George Kamel & Ken Coleman discuss: When you can afford a new house, The purpose of an emergency fund (it's insurance, not an investment), Preparing for a career change. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your money, your career, your relationships, and everything in between. I'm George Campbell, Ramsey personality, joined today by my friend Ken Coleman, and we are here to help you, to take your calls, to give you some affirmation, inspiration, motivation, education, whatever you need. We are here for you. Open phones this hour. 888-825-525 is the number. 888-825-525. Sorry about that. You know, you flub it up. There's a lot of twos, a lot of fives, Ken. A lot of twos, a lot of fives. And you're just getting warmed up, Joe.

I'm just getting warmed up. I called you Joe. See? It's Friday, man. I was seeing if you're paying attention. See, you're already in the zone. Well, Dave called me Joe Camel. I think the first time I was ever on the show.

And it's stuck. I was wondering if you were going to catch the slight reference. But hey, the phones are ready to go. People are calling in, and we're ready to help. Let's go. Let's do it. John is kicking us off in Effingham, Illinois. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, how you doing? Doing well. How are you? How can we help? I'm doing great. So I've got a question on whether my wife and I can afford a new house, a next house. Last year, we made $110,000. That's what we brought home. Excuse me, that is before taxes. This year, our average bring home has been about $6,000 a month.

So the house that we're looking at, we've agreed on a price of $290,000. And all of my numbers between investments that we would pull out, a gift from a family member, and the sale of our house, I'm looking at someplace between $1,400 and $1,700 a month. So the math adds up in my head, but I want to make sure that there's nothing that I'm missing, and why do I still have this feeling in my stomach? It's a great question. Did you pull those numbers on a 15-year mortgage or 30-year?

That's a 30-year. Okay. Well, that throws a wrench in the plans here, because I'm only going to steer you towards that 15-year mortgage, and that's going to increase that monthly payment. Okay. So tell me about these investments. You said you're pulling from these investments. Is this outside of retirement, just a brokerage account? Yeah, it's outside of retirement. So my wife and I, we've been saving since we were 18

through a big company. And then we also have, I have a 401k, she has a pension, and then we have some other investments. So this is aside from our primary retirement. Okay. So what is causing the urgency to jump into this new house? So the house that we're currently in, we've got two boys, three, and going to be one next month. And our house is 1,300 square foot. Obviously, people make it on less. The house that's available, I've lived in my town ever since I was just a wee guy and I've always loved the house. Our minister originally owned it and somebody else bought it and now I have an opportunity to occupy it and

it's a fantastic house. It would be our forever home until we retire wow forever home always scares me ken oh we get too much emotion that's the short answer too much emotion on this let me just break this down john the one and three-year-old boy have no stinking clue how big or small your house is 1300 square feet to a one and three-year-old boy or one and three-year-old girl, they don't even have any clue. And my brother and I, we shared a room in a house that size probably until I was 12. And then my dad finished the attic and I was so desperate to get out of the room with my brother, I lived in the attic. It was fabulous. I didn't know. But we lived in bunk beds. I mean, here's my point. You're kind of going, well, we've got two boys and the house is small. Yeah, but that's not a reason to move.

The real reason you want to move is because you've always had your eye on this house, and I totally understand that. I'm not knocking it. But you're not ready. Yeah. You're not ready based on what we teach. So you've got to have to get over the emotion here. It's not your only forever house.

John, what's the total amount of down payment you could put down on this right now? So with our investments and a gift from a family member that puts us up to $55,000 and with the sale of our home, that should put us someplace between $80,000 and $100,000. As a down payment? Yeah. After all the closing costs and everything. Well, I'm on the mortgage calculator here at ramseysolutions.com, and I'm crunching the numbers for you to give you an idea. And you are about, if you could put $140,000 down, I would feel very comfortable with you guys doing this, which means there's a gap right here, which means we've got to be patient.

We've got to sacrifice, hustle, whatever you've got to do to get to that number. And it's not because you have to follow the Ramsey rules to a T. It's because too much of your take-home pay is going to be tied up in this mortgage, and you're not going to be able to accomplish all of your other financial goals, saving for college, paying off the house early, having a life, going on vacation, because you jumped in this house before you were ready. Okay. Yeah, it stinks, doesn't it?

My biggest question is, and you had mentioned the sacrifice. So our boys are three and one. They're not going to know if we don't go to Disney World. They're not going to know about the vacations. So our logic was, okay, we can hustle. I got a big raise this last year, projected to make another big raise for next year. So our estimate was, well, let's sacrifice for a couple of years. We're not going to Disney World.

We don't have any intentions on any time soon. And we spend the majority of our time on our home. If we were to sacrifice, you know, cut back on lots of things, which we already do, if we were to go through and sacrifice a little bit more for the house that we know. I mean, our neighborhood, I left out a lot about our neighborhood just because I didn't want to make it even more personal, but our neighborhood's really gone downhill. I found methamphetamine in my backyard.

Somebody was hiding underneath my shed. We've had methamphetamine in my backyard. Somebody was hiding underneath my shed. We've had some sex predators down the street. We do have some other motivations, but I mean, you're right. It is an emotional thing with the house, but I do wonder, like, they're not going to know. There's other places you can live that may be more affordable. And if you really need to get out right now, But it sounds like if you look for the reasons why you need to get in this house right now, you'll find them. And if you look for the reasons

why this is a bad move financially for your financial future, you'll also find it. So you're going to find what you're looking for there. When it comes down to it, I want you guys to have margin in your life and right now this plan doesn't do that for you. Okay.

So, I mean, that's our take. You can do what you want, but if you're going to follow the Ramsey plan to freedom that millions have done to where you can pay off your house, become an everyday millionaire, all that stuff, this is the way to do it. Do you guys have any consumer debt? We just have one car, but it'll be paid off in a year's time. Man. Do you have an emergency fund fully funded three to six months? Yeah, we've got $12,000 in that and that's without touching it. We wouldn't

be touching it for the down payment. What's on the car loan? $20,000. Man. So the plan was without the house to knuckle down and get that out of our life. And after talking to the people who own the home, they're looking at probably selling it in July-ish. And so we would be able to, okay, let's knuckle down. Let's say we might have to, A, sell the car, or B, keep the car for a while longer. I think this thing either needs to get sold or you're putting extra pause before you jump into this house. You've got to get out of debt, man, and you've got to get that emergency fund back in place. Once you pay off the debt, then we're working on saving up for this house.

But if you do things out of order and you do 17 things at once, you'll never get to where you want to go. Thanks for the call, John. Wishing the best for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, small business owners, you know what usually causes small businesses to fail? Poor accounting. Yep, you heard me. And not managing your books well often leads to not paying your quarterly income taxes. I don't want that to happen to you. In fact, I want you to be able to focus on what you love and let a pro worry about the tax code changes. That's why I recommend small business owners work with a tax professional

like our endorsed local providers or ELPs. They're some of the most qualified tax pros in the nation. My team has vetted them, and they're Ramsey trusted. That means they're committed to excellence. They want to see you win, and they can help you minimize your tax liability, which means you keep more money for your business to find a ramsey trusted tax pro near you go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro that's ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro Hey folks, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by my colleague Ken Coleman.

Listen, it has been a long time, way too long, since we've been able to talk about our live events. But this week, we finally got to kick off a couple of events we're planning for later this year. So exciting. We're talking about real live events, Ken, with real people and everything. Real people in the room. It's very exciting. We're excited to say the least. And we have lots of events coming up this year, and I'm especially looking forward to Smart Conference. That's right. Smart Conference is back. It's been three years, and we're so pumped to get this conference back on the road in Dallas, Texas. We're going to Dallas on Saturday, October 22nd.

And Smart Conference is our biggest event of the year. You don't want to miss it. It's going to be a day-long, jam-packed event where you'll get advice from leading experts on money, personal growth, leadership, mental health, and your career. You're going to leave with all the knowledge and motivation that you need to live the life you want. All of the Ramsey personalities are going to be there, plus Craig Rochelle and his wife talking about marriage. It's going to be a great time. So get your tickets right now. They're moving real fast. Just $39. That's amazing. Honestly, I've told Dave this. It's too good of a deal. Yeah, you've got to be there.

That's a great price for a full day event like this, so get your tickets now before they sell out. You can go to RamseySolutions.com slash events to learn more and join us in Dallas, Texas. Are you going to wear the kind of the old school country music star full-on

suit with sequins and tassels. I've been known to pull out the rose shirt. Yeah, because you're a little guy and you would look kind of fun in that. Thank you for that. Little guy wears the cowboy outfit. Well, we're not going to the rodeo, Ken. This is a professional event. I just think it would connect you to the audience a little bit more.

I appreciate that. That's all I'm saying. Well, I haven't thought about wardrobe, Ken. You're thinking ahead. That's what I do. Well, open phones this hour. We'd love to take your call on money and especially career. There's so much out there. If it's a toxic environment, you've got a boss you can't stand. You're looking to increase your income, get a bigger shovel so that you can accomplish your financial goals. Ken Coleman is the expert on that. I'm ready to help

him. And if you've got any questions, you need some affirmation. Sometimes you think you know the answer and you just want to hear from a third party to go, yes, I was thinking that way. Or I think this is a dumb thing and I just need someone to talk me off the ledge. We're happy to do that too. Sounds like parenting teenagers, but you were talking about the show. That's a great analogy. Yeah, I got three teens at home. That's what I feel like on a daily basis. I feel like I need a third party person to tell me, talk me off a ledge. I love that.

Well, either way, we are here for you. The phone number to call, get this down, 888-825-5225. You'll get patched through to our friend Kelly, and if you're nice to her, she will let you through on the air. That's the key. Be nice to Kelly. She holds the keys to the kingdom. Powerful woman. All right. Well, let's go to those phone lines. Todd joins the key. Be nice to Kelly. She holds the keys to the kingdom. Powerful woman.

All right. Well, let's go to those phone lines. Todd joins us in Washington, D.C. Todd, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, how y'all doing today? Great. How are you? I'm doing great. Hey, we're doing really good with the program. We've got our baby steps going right. And I did have a quick question about the emergency fund, and me and my wife have gone back and forth on that. So when they say you should have three to six months, that's of expenses, not of your income, correct?

Correct. So with the extra, we're debt-free other than our mortgage. We have no consumer debt. Awesome. And we have a 15-year mortgage that we refinanced a couple years, maybe a year ago. So we got a 30, and we just wanted to pay this thing down quicker. So what I guess what I'm asking is, so any extra money over what we currently have in our current bank savings, which gives you nothing in interest, we all know, should that go straight to the mortgage for wanting the balance?

I would think yes, because you guys always say you should try to get that paid off as soon as you can. But what about the emergency fund? Should that stay liquid like in the bank, or would it be okay to invest that into like a mutual fund or something? 1,000% no. We are not investing the emergency fund. That is a recipe for disaster. Have you seen the stock market today? If you had your HVAC go out and your money just dropped, you know, five grand, that's a bad situation. So here's how we look at it. Your emergency fund is insurance. It's not an investment. Right. Okay. It's there to protect you when Murphy hits, when life goes wrong, when the stock market's down,

when the HVAC goes out, the tire goes flat, the job gets lost, all of those things. And so, no, I know you're going, man, I could be making money right now, but that's not the point of the emergency fund. That is what you're investing is for in Baby Step 4. So do you guys have the emergency fund, or are you saying you're working on it? Oh, we got, yeah, we definitely got it. We got more than it in the back of the crate. How much are we talking?

How many months? So I got six months saved, plus with the extra, probably another three. Wow. So I got about nine months, yeah. Wow. Well, why don't you take that extra three and throw it on the mortgage? That's what I'm thinking about doing. That's what I was asking.

Yeah, I think that might be a good shot. That's the plan, man. What's left on the mortgage? Right now, we got about $355,000 left on it. If we sold it on the market right now, we'd probably get six and up. So we got good equity in it. Okay. And, you know, we're both in our early 60s.

My wife is going to retire soon to do part-time um so we're just trying to our biggest thing is the quicker we get this thing paid off the better off we're going to be and we know that what's your what's your combined income right now um combined income we bring about about 210 a year in wow okay so if you cut the check today um with the additional three months of your emergency funds, we still have six months in there, how much is that going to drop the mortgage balance to? I'd say probably about $320,000. I'd say about it'd drop it down to about $320,000 320 maybe. Yeah, with that kind of income, even if your wife dropping down to part-time income, you guys still have a really healthy income and you're going to be able to knock that out. You're on the road. Yeah, that's what we've been trying to really focus on, you

know, because I think that's, I kind of agree with y'all's principle about get rid of the debt, get rid of the mortgage. I've always said you don't need as much to live in retirement if you don't have a mortgage. That's the truth. And that's what I was going to ask you. I've always said, you don't need as much to live in retirement if you don't have a mortgage. That's the truth. And that's what I was going to ask you. I want you to have a paid-for house before you guys retire so that you can retire with dignity. Do you guys have a nest egg saved? How much is in investments? We don't really currently have other things other than my 401k and her 401k. So that's about, we got about combined almost 500,000. Okay. Well, let's keep at that. Let's keep doing the 15%. Are you doing that already into retirement?

I just actually upped mine to 18% two weeks ago. So I was doing 15%. I went to 18%. I don't remember her percentage because with her income, she doesn't make as much, so we've dropped down hers a little bit. Well, I'll tell you this much. Our plan works every time you work it. And so if you want to do our plan,

you want to retire with dignity, I would tell you to drop that back down to 15%, use the extra 3%. That's going towards the mortgage. That needs to be the focus for the next, you know, three, four, five years. I want to see this thing gone so that you can go,

I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I've worked my whole life for this moment and we can actually retire with the money in our investments instead of go, well, we've got a mortgage payment still, and we don't have enough in our investments to make it. Right, and that was going to be my next question. I'm glad you brought that up because I was just going to say,

should I drop it down some and put the extra to the mortgage? Yes. So should I go below the 15, like go down to 10, or just stay at the 15? No, no, stay 15 on the dot with your household income. And then once you pay off the house, hey, you can go buck wild. You can increase that to 20%. Yeah. And that's what you're going to be able to do because guess what? When you don't have a mortgage payment, you can invest a mortgage payment. And you start doing that even for five, 10 years, and you let that grow over the next

20, 30 years of your life, man, you guys are going to be in good shape. You're going to be able to leave a legacy. You got kids? Oh yeah, we do. We got four kids, got grandkids, everything. Wow, man. Well, I'm pumped for you guys, but stay the course. Don't try to do Todd's plan. I'm telling you, this stuff works. Every time you work it, we've had tens of millions of people do this stuff. And if you follow it to a T, it will lead you to where you want to go, to that dream retirement. Well, that's why we're on it. All right. Well, thanks a lot for your help. I appreciate it. Absolutely, Todd. Thank you so much for the call. Good stuff there, Ken. Yeah. He's doing great. Sometimes you got to get a real readjustment.

He's doing very well. But George, I liked it. It was a little bit of snark, which is, you know, for you, you really had to restrain yourself. Par for the course for me. But I think the big takeaway is if you want to work Todd's plan, you can, but it doesn't work like the Ramsey plan. Well, everyone thinks they're special and millions and millions and millions of people. I'll take those off. Including the two people that are on the debt-free stage that we're going to talk to next. I can't wait. Let's get to that.

Hey, open phones this hour, 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey personality, joined by Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. And in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Brian and Angela join us. Hey, guys, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Hi, guys. Great. Where are you from? Minnesota. Southern part of Minnesota. Oh, I love the accent. All the way here to do a debt-free scream. Okay, how much have you guys paid off? $98,500. Wow. All right. And how long did that take? 22 months. Whoa. Okay. And what was your

range of income during that time? $136,000 up to $145,000. Nice. What do you guys do for a living? I am a general manager of a hotel. And I do auto body. Fantastic. Good stuff there. Okay. So what type of debt was this $98,500? It was a little bit of everything. Auto loans. Personal loan, medical bills, and then the big one, credit cards. What was the biggest debt out of all that? It was probably a credit card. Credit cards, yeah. So we were having some fun. We were on a spending spree for a little while. Yeah. We weren't being intentional at all. Okay, but then 22 months ago, something shifted, because you

guys went hard at this debt. What happened? Well, go ahead. He brought home FPU DVDs from a co-worker, and they sat on our dresser for a couple months. Okay, so I've got to ask ask a detail was this a passive move uh

brian where you just put it on the dresser and waited for her to address it or did you bring it up and she was just like that's nice and we ignored it uh well the latter okay all right all right so we took a road trip and we had about three hours in the car and we talked about it and realized, well, we've got to do something. We listened to Dave on the podcast and started talking about it and realized we got to do something. And I kind of dug my heels in. I said, this isn't going to work. It's not going to work.

Why? Why was it going to work? Because it was so much debt and so much, you know, we were paying, robbing Peter to pay Paul and just, you know, doing all kinds of things. And it just came each month and it was like, we were, you know, dying. So you had no hope that this plan was even going to work? No. No.

So we put it together. We did the baby steps and the first two debts we paid off and it was like okay this is working we can do this and then we kept piling on that extra money to the next debt and then it was like the chains were loosening on our necks how quickly did you pay off those first two once you started what was the time period i think the first couple little ones was like a couple months and then we realized wow this is this is what... You tasted momentum. Yes. Uh-huh.

Wow. And you decided, you know what? I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Let's go all in on this thing. Correct. We were selling stuff, and it just took off. Wow. What was the most you made off a sale?

What did you sell? Well, we did a lot of things. We walked around the farm place and just put stuff on Craigslist and realized, okay, we're making a little extra money here. And we both got extra jobs. That helped a lot. Working overtime, he did. And I had night jobs after my full-time jobs. Wow.

Good for you. It just went all in. Even with the kiddos, you guys decided we're going to sacrifice for a short period of time so that we can leave a legacy so that we can have this freedom. What was the extra jobs? I worked at a restaurant and also a brewery. Wow. Nice. You guys were willing to do whatever it took.

Yes. Whatever. You sold so much stuff the kids thought they were next, didn't they? Yeah, exactly. They're nervous. Don't look at me, Mom. Don't look at me. I'm not for sale.

Oh, my goodness. Wow. And now here you are to do your debt-free scream. How does it feel to be completely debt-free? It feels wonderful. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. There's emotion there.

What's driving that emotion for you, Angela? Just being here, this whole place. Working hard. It saved our marriage. Oh, wow. That's great. And our future. Yeah. Tell saved our marriage. Oh, wow. That's great. And our future. Yeah.

Tell us about that. What was the relationship between getting out of debt and your marriage improving? Oh, it brought more communication. Sitting down together. Yes. Each week, going through what we needed to do for our budget and being intentional and having that communication. It was the first time you've done that in a long time, it sounds like.

Correct. That was big. Wow. I want to ask you guys something on this marriage issue. I'm just curious. Did you find that there was stress on both of you that you were unaware of that was causing maybe some marital strife that once you started making momentum and feeling hope relieving the stress that that led to a stronger relationship or was it just that we sat down and started communicating but i'm just curious i've never asked a married

couple this it was both it was both there was that stress that we were both feeling but we weren't communicating about it yeah yeah and when we came together it was like right it's like you have two people that are cranky pants you're not quite sure why we're both cranky yeah right yeah right yeah yeah yeah so you've done this stuff and i want you to talk to that person who felt like you did when you started you went there's no way this plan's going to work we have too much debt that might work for them but it's not going to work. We have too much debt. That might work for them, but it's not going to work for me. What do you tell that person the key to getting out of debt is? Be intentional. Yes. And you have to be on the same page and know to trust the process. Trust the process that the steps are simple. It's simple. Just follow those steps and be patient

and know that in the long run, you're going to feel like we do right now. Wow. Yeah, I'm totally grateful and thankful for everything that Ramsey Solutions has done for us. Yeah. And we were able to do this process with God guiding us through this whole thing. He had a hand in everything. Amen. Amen.

Wow. So did you guys have cheerleaders along the way? We did. Oh, yeah. Who were they? Well, our kids were big teammates, helped us through this whole thing by babysitting and helping out around the house so mom and dad could work. And then one of our biggest cheerleaders was my mom, who we brought here today.

Yay! That's amazing. And look what happens when you do that to the kids. They turn into adults. They do. It's amazing when you put some responsibility on them. They see mom and dad sacrificing. Yeah.

I'm just asking, and nothing against the two boys, Blake and Brecken, but was Ava kind of in charge when you guys were pulling the overtime? She sure was. Did she get the house going? She did. How old is Ava? Ava's 14. Ah, I had a girl. There we go. She was in charge when you guys were pulling the overtime? She sure was. Did she get the house going? She did. How old is Ava? Ava's 14. Oh, I had a girl.

There we go. She was in charge. She's like, I got this. Wow. Very nice. Yeah, that's great. So how's it feel to be completely debt-free now? It feels awesome.

Amazing. Amazing. Well, I hope everyone listening, watching, can see the emotion, feel the emotion of what that levity looks like when you get rid of the chains, when you get rid of the payments in your life, what you are able to accomplish and what it does to you, not just financially, but emotionally and mentally and spiritually. That's right. Well, let's get the, you got the whole family.

Let's bring them up here. Tell us the names and ages. Who do we got? We got Ava. She's 14. And we have Blake. He is 11. And we have Blake. He is 11. And we have Brecken is 8.

Oh, I love it. And if you're not watching, you've got to know they've got the matching T-shirts that say, Better Than I Deserve, Weird People, Gazelle Intense. And that's exactly what you guys have been, will continue to be. That's great. And we're so proud of you. You guys are amazing. Thank you.

Thank you. And I'm guessing you've been practicing the debt-free scream, the kids. Oh yeah. Okay. I want to hear it loud and proud. Yeah. For all the times that your mom and dad have told you to be quiet kids, this is the moment where you get mom and dad back. You get to use the outdoor voice indoors. This is special. Well, we've got a copy of Babyset Millionaires for you. Dave's number one bestselling book. That is the next chapter for you guys. That's the legacy that you get to leave because of the hard work that you've done and will continue to do. And we also have a copy of the Total Money Makeover so you can give it to someone else and kickstart their journey. And it might sit on their dresser for a little while, but man,

the life change that could happen from something like that is just amazing. All right. Thank you. Let's do this thing. We've got Brian and Angela and Ava and Blake and Brecken, Minneapolis, Minnesota. $98,500 paid off in 22 months, making $136,000 up to $145,000, selling everything they could, working extra, doing whatever it took. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Yeah! Yes! Look at that. There it is. I think they might have broken the mice. They made me want to scream. It was a natural reaction, Kevin. It took over me. Wow.

Man. Just seeing a family tree change like that, that makes your day. You know, I've got to tell you, mom's emotion, a sense of relief, a sense of hope about their future. It's so awesome. That's what this is about. That's true peace. Yes. That's peace.

I want that for every single person listening. You can do this, okay? Brian and Angela did it, and you're no different. You're not special. You can do this plan. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Ramsey personality Ken Coleman. We are taking your calls on life, money, career, you name it.

We are here for you. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. Janet joins us up next in Kansas City. Janet, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you guys? Doing great. How can Ken and I help? Well, thanks for taking my call. I'm looking to make a career change, and I have a background in sales.

I'm currently a bereavement coordinator for a hospice company. And so it's been hard to make that switch. I've been doing this for a while. And I think when potential employers see my resume, they're thinking, wow, she's been out of sales for a while and she's a grief counselor. So I've kind of hit a rock wall. I've been putting in for many jobs and i just i kind of want your advice on what you would recommend for me so uh a follow-up question janet is when you're putting in for all these jobs describe the process what tell me what that involves you doing what

just submitting an online resume what else else, what else, what else? Right. I'm sure my resume really needs to be updated because it probably highlights my age. I have a lot of experience and that's all documented, but I go to Indeed, I go to, you know, career sites, LinkedIn. So you're submitting everything online, right? Yes. Okay, so I want to encourage you because I think you're discouraged, and you should not be discouraged.

So the good news is you should not be discouraged. The bad news is you've been doing it all wrong, which is why you shouldn't be discouraged because I'm going to tell you how to do it right. This is not a you problem. This is the way you're going about it. Does that encourage you? It does. All right. So listen, first things first, we're going to get you the free resume guide at KenColeman.com.

I'll make sure Kelly gets you a link to that and we can get you to that. And it's going to help you actually restructure your resume so that looks better. But even then, that's not enough. That's not enough. Because I read some data recently that over a million qualified candidates, Janet, that's you, over a million qualified candidates in 2021 never even got looked at because of the artificial intelligence, the online software that everybody's using, that you've been submitting your resume to. And many times, if there's just one keyword that's wrong, or there's one thing in your description of your experience, these artificial intelligence softwares will kick you out. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yeah. So it is a very good possibility, especially when you're not getting any calls back. And I'm just curious, how many times are you not even getting a response? Well, probably 90% of the time. I mean, I have gotten some calls and, you know, maybe a first interview and then that's it, like a phone interview. All right. So here's the thing. And actually, I won't even have Kelly do this because you can do this because it's all Kelly could do for you. I want you to go to KenColeman.com.

It's Ramsey Solutions. And I just want you to download the resume guide and the interview guide. Okay? How to win the interview and the resume guide as well. And it's going to help you with a real template, show you how to do it, why to do it that way. Secondly, it's going to help you prepare for the interview so you can win your interviews.

But I got one other gift for you. I'm going to give you a copy of my number one bestselling book, The Proximity Principle, because this is what's missing. This is the real ingredient that you're missing. And The Proximity Principle, Janet, says this. It's a very simple thought. In order to do what you want to do, sales, you got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. People in places. People, the right people plus the right places equals opportunities for Janet where the door swings open for Janet.

She's not having to kick it down, George. People are going to come to her. So, Janet, what that means to you is you got to start connecting through one-to-one relationships that you have and then the next level connections where maybe it's a friend of yours or a friend of your friend or it is an acquaintance that you haven't talked to in a while, but they're friendly and they've got connections to sales jobs or they are in sales and you're beginning to rub shoulders, if you will, and you're talking to people that are successful salespeople who might be aware of a position that's open. Because here's, Janet, the reality. You are smack dab in the middle of the hottest job market in the history of this country. It's never been hotter. It's never been easier in the sense of people are

looking for salespeople. And just because you haven't done sales in a long time doesn't mean you forgot how to sell. True or false? True. All right. So here's what I want you to do. I'm giving you a lot of stuff that you have to do, but I want you to read the proximity principle. There's five specific people and five places we unpack in that book. But since you know what you have to do, but I want you to read the proximity principle. There's five specific people and five places we unpack in that book. But since you know what you want to do, it's just all a function of how do you get there. And I want you to do the deep dive. It's an easy read, but I want you to, your homework assignment today is you've got to start telling everybody you know. I mean, social media. I mean, people you go to church with, people you work out with, people that you see at social clubs. Tell them you're looking for sales. You've got sales

experience. Who's hiring in sales? And then go back to your target list. Some of the places where you applied before, but you never even got a technology response, much less a call, you're not done with those places. I'll bet they don't even know about you, Janet. And so I want you to work this process. Who do you know that knows somebody that works over at all those companies? And George, here's what I know. She will get an opportunity, but that's how you do it. It is a dogged pursuit. You just keep going. Well, as you were talking about that, I thought about my own career journey. You've got a great story. I lived the proximity principle before I even knew it existed.

And that's how I got the role here at Ramsey. It wasn't because of my amazing experience. It was because of who I knew, how I was connected, and my pursuit of that role and the value I could bring. And I think if Janet does that. It wasn't because of your resume either. No. You actually really worked your personal relationships to get in the door here. And the resume was something that like oh well here's the george resume but but they knew about you through a relationship yes that's what got you the interview and i think

what janet's feeling is well it's because of my age it's because of my lack of experience and i think that can that can just well it'll just beat you up pretty quick and so i love the encouragement hey it's neither of those things. It's not. You just need to get connected. She hasn't been noticed. See, in order to get hired, you first have to get noticed. And then when you get noticed, there's your opportunity to stand out.

And I think a lot of people get beat down. And here's one thing I really want to encourage this audience with. Because we have a lot of people, George, who are trying to get out of debt. And they listen to these debt-free screamers and they go every time we talk to these folks almost every time i'd have to have i'd have to talk to james about this and get it i bet there's a master spreadsheet but i don't recall ever being on this show and talking to debt-free screamers where their income did not go up during the journey. They were focused. And so some of you are just going, I want to make more money. I want to get a better job

just to get out of debt, but I feel discouraged. Well, you shouldn't be discouraged. Here's the deal. You think that submitting a bunch of resumes online and sending 27 emails on LinkedIn is good activity. And so you sit back and you go, well, I sent 27 emails on LinkedIn. Let me just sit here and wait for people to show up and give me an opportunity. Guess what, folks? It doesn't work that way. That is activity, but it's the wrong activity. It's one step of the process, but we can't just end there. Relationships, relationships, and relationships. The top three ways to get a better job, those are it. All the same, by the way, and the data backs it up.

There was a long-time sociology study by a guy named Mark Granovetter who found that most people get jobs through what he called loose ties. That's fancy sociology speak. What he meant was acquaintances. You are sitting in the bleachers with parents of your kids' teammates. They may be the next job. Absolutely. And some of our best hires we made here at Ramsey is referrals. And so we get those all the time. It's not because they made it through the stack of resumes. It's because I knew Ken, Ken knew me, he knew my skill set,

and he went, hey, George would be a great hire. We got to get him in the door, put him at the top of the stack. That's how this works. By the way, what you just described is beautiful. That's how you come out of the pile and go to the top of the stack. Because, by the way, there ain't no stack anymore. No. But it is digital. It's a robot spewing it back out.

You may never even get noticed if you're playing the lottery. Like, Janet's been playing the lottery or the slot machine. Yeah, we've got to do better than that. So hang on the line, Janet. We'll get you the proximity principle and then go to KenColeman.com for those free resources. The interview guide and how to win the interview. I mean, the resume guide

and how to win the interview. Good stuff there, Ken. Some encouragement for your career and your money. That's what we're here for. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before we know it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world?

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